Susan Agudo - Demir Digital

Welcome to another SEO Wisdom podcast. We have Suzanne Agudo with us today. She's a digital marketing, marketing leader at, uh, Demir Digital. She's been at that company, or started that company, 3 years ago. She's been at big companies as well, like Nike and MGM. So just eager to hear more about her experience today. Suzanne, welcome to the pod. Tell us a bit more about yourself and what you're up to.

Thanks for having me, Charles. Um, so as you mentioned, I'm Susan, uh, co-founder and CEO of Demir Digital. We're a digital design and strategy agency based out of Portland, Oregon, and we help companies build the teams, systems, and workflows that they need to do great work consistently. And I would say, like you mentioned, I've worked for a lot of great companies. I led digital operations inside Nike's global brand-defining studio where I helped them build systems and processes that help, you know, one of the largest, world's largest creative teams produce and scale work across every touchpoint., um, on the digital side. So that experience working at the intersection of like design, technology, and operations at that scale is sort of what gave me the confidence to start Demir Digital and bring that capability to organizations like beyond just Nike.

Interesting. Yeah, because I saw you were, um, working for yourself for like 13 years, then you accepted a job, you were a fitness coach, right? Tell me about your trajectory, right? And ultimately, yeah, like, are you gonna stay a founder ultimately? Uh, tell me about the drive here.

Um, definitely want to stay a founder, you know. Let— uh, well, we'll start with the trajectory. So, um, so I started out, um, my marketing career started actually in the music industry, um, and continued in entertainment in the film industry. And then I wanted to get on the agency side because I didn't want to get put in a bubble of, oh, she just does entertainment marketing. So went on to the agency side, got a lot of good experience there. And the becoming the fitness, fitness trainer and all that, that came about because I, in my, in my 20s, I actually started doing bodybuilding competitions and That's how that got started. So I was still doing marketing. The fitness stuff was sort of just a side gig that I was doing. And then, you know, got the job at MGM working for their in-house agency, which was really great. I had, you know, it gave me a lot of exposure to working with a lot of C-level executives. And then once the COVID hit, you know, hospitality took a huge hit. So we all got laid off. And that was my time for me to take a step back and, you know, really ask myself, like, what do you want to do? And Nike has always been like a dream job of mine. And especially with the fitness stuff, it was kind of combining my professional experience along with like my something that I'm passionate about. So that was my goal, was like Nike. And, you know, I ended up landing the job at Nike. I relocated to Portland and then 2, 3 years later, Nike did mass layoffs. And it was devastating. And like our entire team that I was working on, basically essentially got, you know, they got rid of that team. And jokingly, I had said to one of my colleagues on that team, I said, "We should just start our own agency." 'Cause she came from the agency side as well. And, um, that's how it all started. We are both very, very hesitant because we were used to the stability of— stability and benefits, healthcare and all of that that comes with, you know, a corporate job. Um, but, you know, we said to make ourselves feel better, we're like, you know, we'll just keep on looking at, uh, you for jobs on the side, but like still, um, you know, try and start this business and just see what happens. So that's what we did. And after a very successful first year, I was like, I'm never going back to corporate. Like, there's no way. Um, like the amount of, um, freedom that being a founder provides is unlike anything else. I can't go back.

Yeah, the— yeah, freedom of everything, right? Your time, uh, your intellectual freedom, because oftentimes corporations, you can't really say what you think and you're under these NDAs and all that weird shit. Um, tell me a bit more about the bodybuilding phase. Why Um, obviously I'm intrigued in bodybuilding as an ultra athlete myself. It's all about scaling, it's very scientific, right? And there's a clear outcome on the other side and you can't fake it, right? It's like right there out in the open. Tell me why you were attracted to that sport.

Um, just a little anecdote on the you can't fake it thing. So I had my bodybuilding coach was amazing. And she actually was— she competed in the Olympia, um, several times. And, you know, the— when I first started working with her, um, you know, bodybuilding diets are very, very rigid and strict. And she was so good that— so the first week I came in, I did not follow the our first check-in, I did not follow the diet to a T, but she didn't say anything. I just did extra cardio to sort of like make up for it, and I was like, oh good, she didn't notice. So I did it again the following week, and she said— she was like, you know what, all I'm gonna say is— like, she didn't call me a liar, she didn't ask me like, are you not following your diet? She just looks at me and she was like, you know what, all I'm gonna say is it's very important to follow the diet if this is what you want to do. Um, but I started— I got into the bodybuilding because, um, when was the, the recession? In like the 2007-ish. Um, you know, I was laid off and, um, and I was eating whatever I felt like eating. I wasn't, you know, binging or anything like that, but I just wasn't really paying attention to how it was affecting, you know, my, my health and that sort of thing. And, you know, when you're at home, you're typically wearing sweats or comfortable clothes. And it came the time where I had to put on some jeans and I was like, oh, these These don't fit anymore. And I was like, okay, this is not okay. You're not doing— you don't have a job right now. You have to be doing something productive. So it was around that time that I started volunteering. I started volunteering with the Make-A-Wish Foundation. And I was like, okay, I don't have an excuse. So maybe I don't have money to go to the gym, but I can do something. So I, you know, started running, started doing, you know, things like that. And then once I scrounged up with my, with one of my unemployment checks, I don't know if you remember Groupon, but there's a Groupon deal. There is a Groupon deal for like a 1-month-long boot camp, uh, like a membership to a boot camp class for one month. And I was like, okay, this is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna join this, you know, stick with it for a month, and then hopefully by then I'll have found a job that I can continue to pay for this, uh, to keep going to this. And like, that's kind of how it all started. Um, and then with the fitness, like becoming a trainer when people around me, like, you know, people that I interacted with on a daily basis, friends, family, they started noticing the, the weight loss. And, you know, they'd be like, that's amazing, like, how did you do it? And first it would start with them asking for, you know, little tips and tricks here and there, and then it turned into like people actually asking me to train them.

So And why did you get obsessed with it in the first place? Um, is it because it's measurable? Is it because you're getting 1% better every day? Is it because, uh, the biochemistry effect in your body when you work out? Like, why did you get addicted to it in the first place?

Um, I do think it's because that it's, it's measurable. Um, because when I was— had, had check-ins with my bodybuilding coach, it would be like, okay, let's measure, take measurements of like your biceps, your waist, your, you know, um, like different body measurements, and let's see. Um, and you know, a lot of people are always obsessed with like the number on the scale, but if you're if you have a low body fat percentage like that number, like a large, you know, a bigger number doesn't necessarily mean that it's fat. So bodybuilding was just like very fascinating to me. I read a lot of books. There was a book that Arnold Schwarzenegger wrote about bodybuilding. And, uh, there's a lot of books like The Science of Bodybuilding, 4-Hour Workweek, uh, The 4-Hour Body—

sorry, it's a good one.

Yeah. And it's just—

it's—

yeah, it's, um, it's just amazing that how I could go to the gym and say like, okay, I'm gonna make this one tiny little adjustment in my workout, and it's theoretically it should produce this result. And, you know, once you're consistent, it was just, you know, being able to say like, I am setting this goal and then I'm hitting this goal.

Yeah, it's like being your own laboratory, right? And the feedback loop is way quicker, faster, more immediate, more real. Make-A-Wish, how did you first discover about them? I just discovered— well, rediscovered them like not so long ago. There was this ultra athlete that raised like $300K, uh, for a cause. Like, how did you— how did they land on your map and why is it important for you?

Um, so going back to wanting to be, uh, productive in the time that I was unemployed, um, I was, you know, thinking about different nonprofit organizations that I could volunteer with, and I knew I wanted to do something that had to do with kids. Um, and I considered other organizations, for example, like the Boys and Girls Club, because I really wanted something where I would, uh you know, make a positive impact on, on their lives. Um, but my only concern with the Boys and Girls Club was that you had to be able to, um, theirs was more like of a mentorship and you had to be able to, uh, to dedicate X amount of hours per week, which was great at the time, but I said, you know, I, what if I get a job and then I'm not being I won't be able to commit this, this time anymore. So, um, the Make-A-Wish Foundation was like more flexible, um, in terms of the time commitment. So I went with them, and plus, you know, they're, they're a well-known organization. Um, and yeah, that's how I got started with them. Um, I think you're muted.

MGM and Nike, I think these are pretty, uh, much, uh, great jobs, especially Nike, right? Like, uh, what did you learn from your time there? And is it still, uh, is Phil Knight's DNA still running through the organization?

Um, I would say so. What I— I don't know if I should be saying this, but what I learned there is that people aren't very— people aren't as smart as you think they are.

That's— you can say that. Why not?

If that, that was your experience, um, I'm not to say that there, there's not people, you know, that there aren't people, uh, that are smart over there, but, um, I don't know, like, for, for me, I, I was in a lot of jobs where, um, you know, nothing was good enough sort of thing. You try to climb the ladder but you're stuck. Um, when you ask for promotions, they give you all these reasons why you know, they're not going to give you the promotion or whatever it may be. Um, and then so I, I go into Nike kind of with like an imposter syndrome almost, and I quickly learned that like a lot of people, they, they don't know. They're just hiding behind their titles or they're hiding behind like, I'm gonna delegate this task to, to somebody else. Um, and like that's sort of how they get by.

Yeah, well, Nike is not known for like, I don't know, A+ players, not like an Apple, but most people working at Nike are like competitive and sporty, right? So, and Phil Knight is like a savage when it comes to negotiating deals and getting a hold of athletes. Um, but yeah, but I've also heard like, uh, less good things about Nike's and the performance. Um, maybe the comparison is like Google, right? When Larry and Sergey weren't in the business, and not so long ago they flashed like the, the red light with AI. And I think Sergey's back coding, right? And they need like the founder to be actively there to build something. I think you and I, we've talked about, uh, some of their products last time, like I paid like, uh, $500 for pairs of shoes, Alpha Flies, and they're like breaking apart, right? It's like, what, what is happening here? And there's upcoming brands like Hoka that, uh, at least for running, are vastly superior. So it seems like they retain the, the swoosh, you know, the coolness of it, but the product has like fallen behind.

Yeah, I think they're on an upswing now. I think it has to do a lot with leadership and they actually, um, it was in the news that they, um, they got a new CEO like a few years back. Um, and he was actually retired, had been retired from Nike for at least 5 years at the time. And they had asked him to come back. And I think ever since then, you know, they've been slowly making progress back in the right direction.

And on your side, you said, yeah, people there more or less, but how did it feel to be laid off again, right? Like, how does one sustain that mentally, emotionally, right? I guess you're I want to process the emotions here, but your ultimate response was like, yeah, enough, right? I'm gonna start my own company and never again, right?

It was, um, it was, uh, an emotional roller coaster because, you know, on one hand I'd be like, you know, oh my God, what, what's happening? Why did they do this to us? And, and then on the other hand, you know, you turn around and you're like, oh, fuck them, you know, vindication. Yeah. And when, when they broke the news to us, it was actually especially hard for me because at that particular time in my life, I was, I was actually out of town visiting my parents at the time. I was working remotely. They allowed me to work remotely. During this period, but I was visiting my parents because my mom was having open heart surgery. And then I get the news like, oh, by the way, you're getting laid off.

And I was like, oh my God, great. And you just like side commented to a colleague like, hey, let's start our agency. What was in between that?

The reason why I said that, so our team um, that we were on was essentially like an in-house agency, uh, type of function. And let's see, so I— we got the news about the layoff probably like in October, and then, uh, our last day, um, for my group— that because they did like waves of layoffs, so like I was, I was the part of the first wave. Um, so waves, it's funny, right?

Waves, that's how they qualify it.

Wave I was like so upset because our last day was like the middle of November, and I was like, this is so fucked up because nobody's hiring during the holidays. So mentally I'm preparing myself of I'm not gonna have work until mid-January at the earliest, you know.

And isn't it ironic that they do that in the holidays? Because holiday is supposed to be a very high period in terms of revenue, right? So Yes, a bit odd, you know.

Yes, I agree. But at— but like October, November, like the holiday campaigns, like you're done doing the work in the holiday campaigns, you're like out in the world already, and then you're disposed of. Um, but my thinking when I had said this to my colleague was we've already been briefed on these projects for spring and summer And, um, who's gonna do it now? They don't have the, um, they don't have the— they, they just laid off how many people? So they don't have the brains, they don't have the bandwidth to keep it in-house. They're gonna outsource it. And who better to outsource it to than the people that have already been briefed on the project?

So what was the tactic here? Was it like, oh, you're laying me off, now hire my agency for 3 times the price? That could have been the mindset. Um, what's— yeah, what's, uh, my question is like, how did you get back on your feet, right? Like, it's, it's one thing to be like, oh, let's start your agency. It's another to actually do the work and start, right? I remember not being laid off in my case, but, uh, just like starting on my own. Me, I just picked up the phone and started calling a bunch of realtors back then, which were my clients, right? And I generated first $5K and then $10K. It was 15 years ago. And, um I was off to the races. Like, what was the, the zero to one on your side?

Um, well, you, you have to have a plan. And my business partner, she was, you know, completely like— she was freaking out about it more than I was, but it's because she's on the creative side, um, and me, I'm more operations. So I'm just like, no, we got this. And I spoke to a couple of my friends that I've known for a very long time. One of them, a friend that I've known since high school, he has his own PR agency, who's— and their agency is entering like year 10 now. So I called him, asked for advice, and I was like, okay, tell me everything I need to know. Tell me the stuff that you wish what somebody told you when you first heard, you know, when you first started out. And, you know, we just took it from there. And then so from like November up until like January, we took that time since we knew like nobody's going to— nobody's doing work right now. So we took that time to like quietly like put together our capabilities deck. What do, you know, what services do we want to offer? What's our strategy going to be like for outreach and, you know, that sort of thing. And then come, I think it was like February, I think we did mid-February, we started, we reached out to all of our Nike contacts and sent out an email to all of them letting them know. And then our former boss, she was actually still there and she was amazing and she was you know, she was an advocate for, for us, and she's sending us people left and right.

So interesting. Yeah, and I've been in this space for quite some time. Sometimes I give people legs up if they want, um, yeah, some clients. I won't go out of my way to extra help them, but I'll certainly like, uh, be like, hey, this guy needs this, uh, see if you can close them, right? It's still very hard to go from zero to one, uh, guess like sales, having a sales background helps a lot, right? And prospecting and just being gritty. Which brings us, uh, to this day, right? Like you've been almost 3 years in that game. How's it going? How's it scaling? Uh, is it fulfilling your expectations? And what's next for you?

Um, we're slowly scaling, um, and I'm actually fine with the rate at which it's scaling. We didn't want to scale, you know, go too big too fast. Um, our first year Nike was our only client, um, which we expected, but we started planning around like, you know, we can't have just one client. Um, so we started, uh, doing more outreach. Um, we got a couple of, uh, intros to people at Sonos, um, so we started working with them, um, and then I started going to more events and, uh, actually, uh, started going to CES where I met a lot of great, like, um, a lot of great people that would be great to, uh, work with, uh, as partners, um, and then you know, people that would be good as mentors. And then I've met like a couple of good, um, potential clients there. And this CES from this earlier this year, I actually, um, we actually turned one of those into a client and we are working on something with them right now.

Nice. And what do you do specifically? Like, why do these brands come to you and not the other person next door?

Um, I think for us, we, you know, we give it to them straight. I think a lot of, um, agencies will try and upsell you on stuff that you don't need. And, you know, I had a friend that jokingly said to me, like, why are you telling all of your clients this stuff? Don't you want more money? Um, because for me, I just want to do things once. I want to do it right and I want to do it once. I don't want to have to keep on doing stuff unnecessarily. Um, and yeah, I know I could, you know, upsell the client on like, oh, you need this, you need that, but like, no, I'm a simple person. We just want to do it right and do it once. Um, so I think, um, the fact that they know that we have their best interest in mind and that we're not gonna, you know, upsell them on something that they don't need. And like, we build the trust with them that, you know, if we give a recommendation, they, they really take it to heart. Um, yeah, got it.

Thanks for being on, Susan. Where can, uh, people find out more about you?

Um, we— they can go to our website, DemirDigital.agency.

There you go. That was