Trent Dingman - Real Motors

Welcome to another CEO Wisdom Podcast. We have Trent Digman with us today. Trent is building something cool at Real Motors, a real cool bike, Aries, I believe it's called. Looks good to me. And I was— yeah, I have a bunch of questions for Trent. Trent, welcome to the pod. First, tell us a bit more about yourself and when and why you started Real Motors.

Sweet. Thanks for having me, Charles. Appreciate it. So about myself, my name is Trent Dingman. I'm part of the team at Real Motors here helping with a lot of the operations, communications, and really leading the charge here with Project Aries. So Real Motors is actually building future machines. What that means is we're kind of building the next era, the future of mobility through, you know, our team of rogue engineers that really like to Totally reevaluate different form factors, industries, and make new and exciting products. So the first one, of course, is Project Aries, which is an electric cafe racer. It's a full-size motorcycle with, let's see, about a 15 kilowatt-hour battery pack, and up to— which gets you up to about 120 to 140 miles range, 800cc equivalent.

Okay, uh, how did you get that idea? And can you describe also the cafe style? I mean, I'll share my screen, show visually what it is, but as a motorbike racer, I've never heard of cafe as a style.

Yeah, yeah, I appreciate you, uh, pulling it up. Uh, so for us, you know, it was never originally actually about the motorcycle. It was about really thinking, rethinking what is, you know, a universally attractive machine, something that is Obviously on 2 wheels in this case, but we see it as kind of a machine technology gear, something you can get on and ride. And so for the cafe racer, position-wise, is a subculture or subcategory product for motorcycles, which is kind of meant for inner-city use, often literally going from coffee shop to coffee shop.

Interesting. Okay, so there's a posture change. Also, how much CC is that? How fast can I go from coffee to coffee?

So it's 100 horsepower peak. So quite fast. Depending on what city you're in and how close those coffee shops are, it can be pretty quick.

Nice. How does that compare to my S1K?

Hmm. I would say that the 0 to 60 is going to be about 3.5 seconds under. So a lot of that is the— it's designed around a really quick Takeoff and meant to be quite thrilling as, you know, as you're kind of getting from the stoplight. Imagine, you know, because of the seating position and everything, you're kind of hugging the bike a lot more, and it's really an exciting feeling. But what's interesting is this is also, at the same time, really simple to use. There's no clutch or anything like that. You just twist the throttle and go. And we have different drive speeds. So you can actually, as a beginner motorcyclist or someone that hasn't ridden before, can actually get on and start, as opposed to maybe that larger bike where the first gear, you know, can get up to 60, 70 miles an hour.

Yeah, I love it. How did you get the idea to start that company? I mean, it's pretty crazy because it's hard to start a hardware company and a physical product company like, uh, How did you get that insight to that craziness?

So I would say that in a sense, it's actually not hard to start a hardware company, at least not for us. And that's a lot of what we're kind of communicating and telling people is, is really with a lot of advancements everywhere from AI to having a good team. Like our team is primarily built up of rogue engineers, I call them product developers. It does not have to be hard. It's kind of around this methodology that we have put together. So I think like a fun fact would be, you know, we're at the point where we have preorders and getting ready for production in Q1 of next year. And that was with— that was actually with a pre-seed round, less than $500,000 raised. So we're very capital efficient. And, you know, that number can shock a lot of people. We're very capital efficient and we have a way, our methodology at least, is really designed around kind of that, that Future Machine mindset, that getting into and focusing on product and product development. So for us, we wanted to create a very tangible example of our methodology and Future Machines, and we thought objectively a motorcycle was a great way to achieve that.

So you were always obsessed, I guess, with building physical products, but does the market need an electric— another electric motorcycle right now?

I think so. I think one of the strengths is, you know, of Real Motors is Real Motors has never pitched or presented that we're going to sell 50,000 units or try to go after that. You know, we're trying to help contribute to, I think, the new era of mobility, which can be a lot more personalized to what different users or different customers want. And at the same time, really express, you know, their own unique needs. And I think with our process of designing for manufacturing, our costs and how we're growing our company translate to, you know, lower costs in a more sustainable way of doing things, to where we can be doing really well creating low volumes of really cool, unique future machines for people.

Right. And how did you build that one that fast? Who's in the team? 3 months, I think you've made it to market.

That was, that was the first— not, not to market, but our very first product, our very first prototype was built in 3 months. So we, we've never been the, the PowerPoint company that has been pitching for 2 years, you know, kind of building with air to get where we're going. We started with building a product, building a motorcycle, and getting it out there, announcing it. And the core team that had started, you know, actually didn't originally ride motorcycles. We were rogue engineers that love jumping into different industries and really reevaluating, you know, what can be done, you know. And so we just kind of use a lot of first principle thinking and bring that to the table. That said, the way that we work is very project-oriented. So this is Project Aries. And And we have been very carefully putting a team of engineers together behind this project. And actually, much earlier this year, we had the former CTO of Livewire, Holly Davidson, join our team to develop this because, not because of what it is, a product, but because we align so well on how we do things and our philosophy behind product development and engineering in itself. where we do like to ask those questions and reevaluate everything. And when he had reached out to us and we had connected, we knew immediately there was alignment. So that team continues to build, and we continue to be very lean, mean, and efficient. And right now working in the design for manufacturing phase of Project Aries.

And how does one build a prototype in motorcycle industry?

Do you buy like a base model, like a You know, that is, that is a way to do it. We, we actually did the very first prototype ever was a gas motorcycle. It was a KTM. Uh, we actually ended up chopping it up. We totally replaced the frame. Uh, we put our own drivetrain in it, and that was our first ever, you know, concept, which I think a lot of people can get hung up on, on prototyping and how long that can take to kind of prove the concept. Yeah.

But, you know, we were able to do that.

You know, we like to live in this reality where it's better to get the product out there, get it in front of people, understand who's interested. You know, at that point, I think we had launched and announced that in 2024, immediately had a waitlist collection, and it was insane, the numbers. We had over, over 3,000 people join that waitlist. And so those are those indicators, you know, as, as a company, as Real Motors, we have been very transparent with our prototyping process. our engineering philosophies, and so that, you know, hopefully our end customers know that we are really passionate engineers and product designers behind these products. So yeah, the first one ever was built that way, and then right away after all that interest, we decided, okay, this is definitely the right spot. I think we're in— we have kind of converged toward kind of the specs we were looking at, and then decided, okay, at that point, We were going a lot more in that custom direction, but also utilizing a lot of off-the-shelf things as well. Elon Musk calls it COTS. You know, the more you can utilize off-the-shelf parts, AKA not reinventing the wheel, literally, the better.

What's the demographics and psychographics of your first pre-orders? Is it like wealthy people that already own a couple of these, they've already ordered prototypes, whether it is a Tesla back in the days, or they just love to be early and ride some new shit that people will go like, oh, what is this? And that will get them more attention. Is that the thesis?

Yeah, um, that's a— I mean, that's a good example. Just to kind of even speak off that, this would be similar to, you know, a Tesla Roadster in, in the type of mindset of person that would want to order this, be on the early, you know, trend of Roam Motors and Project Aries. It's similar to that. You know, what's interesting is we did have in mind as we were building Project Aries that it is, uh, you don't have to be so steeped in motorcycle culture to want it. Yet the results have been really interesting where we have traditional motorcycle users and collectors You know, is as equally interested as those that have not ridden. So it's actually an interesting mix of those. And I would say the common thread between both parties is that they are people that love gear and the mechanism. And that's something that I feel we've really preserved with, with our Project Aries, which the thesis being, you know, electric analog. You know, everything that can be mechanical is mechanical. And we want to really emphasize that, really remove— so the technology is in the background and the person that's riding it is just experiencing that pure thrill and emotion.

Interesting. And the engine, tell me a bit more. Did you— I don't think you built it from scratch. Like, what brand did you use for that?

No, we actually are. So it's a 100-horsepower drivetrain, lithium battery. And yeah, the peak output is 100 horsepower. So that's something that we're currently developing now. And that's part of this, which may or may not integrate into future products.

That's crazy. How long did it take you to build your own engine? That's a pretty complex feat 'cause you also need the charger and all of that. And who was in charge of building that?

Certainly not me. I would say of our Rogue engineers, I'm probably the least of expertise in that, although we do have some background there. It took us, it took us about, I mean, where we are now, we're not fully to production yet, right? We're getting towards there Q1 of next year. But really since we started, probably under a year.

Wow. Okay. So I guess that person built engines at a prior company. Like how the fuck do you do that that fast? And were they solo as well?

I mean, it's a little bit our background to us, you know, Developing an EV is, again, this is more our background, it's a little bit easier than developing like your traditional ICE engine from scratch, right? We don't have to, you know, tune all the valves and everything like that. This is a little bit more, at least for us, straightforward. And, you know, again, I think what's interesting too is I think the customers will also feel and experience that because I do think that industry is shifting more towards more simplified designs that can, you know, be maintained or just understood better. So it's a much more simple system.

Isn't there compliance behind that? Like all kinds of bureaucracy to build your own? Why build your own engine? Why not buy it already done?

Well, I think for us what was important too is, you know, we're building a company. We want to be in a strategic position to, again, not only just do this motorcycle but other vehicle projects as well. So the more that we build a solid base here at Real Motors, especially with our, like, you know, our drivetrain particularly is pretty high power-to-weight ratio, you know, that helps us build a solid base as we grow vehicle platforms off that.

Interesting. Yeah. What about suspension, all the other components? Any other thing that you've built yourself homemade from scratch?

No, no. The things that do really make sense to go off the shelf as much as you can is getting more into the suspension. The brakes, the wheels, though I think that's a very, very mature supply chain and best left that way.

Do you have plans to sell that engine to other people that would want it later on?

We would be open to that, yeah.

Interesting. What's the cost of building an engine, and is it at scale right now? Like, can you go out there and build hundreds of engines? On a monthly basis?

It will be when Project Aries is ready. It'll be, it'll be much closer. I do know the cost of Project Aries, the price, the starting price is $20,000.

Got it. It's called Project Aries as well. Why not just Aries?

Because we want to emphasize that it is not just about Aries. These are all projects. There will be another project in the future. There will be many projects in the future, and each one has its own scope. Project Aries is meant to kind of study the relationship between human and machine. So we really wanted to, in kind of this era where there's a lot more self-driving cars, a lot of automation, like, that's, that's great. And I think that's a great avenue for, you know, utility and how people can get around and a lot more accessibility. But we want to create that platform for people that are those automotive enthusiasts. So we study that. And then another project in the future, a different vehicle project, may study something different.

Interesting. I like it. The brand, that's you, right? Like, that's the— you're the architect behind all of that feeling and story type of thing.

I'm not the sole architect, definitely part of a greater team, but I will say, as far as our team goes and the architects, we are engineers. What you get is very honest. It's very honest, it's very straightforward. We try not to give a lot of— try not to give any fluff. We want to just give people machines.

Yeah, I dig the branding for sure, and that gives me an idea of the ICP as well, right? It's like possibly also engineers, engineering types of founders, right? Like Renaissance type of engineers. that we see a lot in the Valley, like building defense companies and all of that. Like, yep, people that, yeah, wanna use technology. And it's like, hey, what's that bike? It's Project Aries. You can't get one of these, you know. It's like, and they can tell the story behind the bike, right? And they're early adopters, right? It also has that Tron feeling, right? Like this, the Tron-inspired Inspired you in some way?

Oh, absolutely. We love sci-fi films in general, like not just Tron, all kinds of sci-fi film. And that really fed into, you know, some of the early ideas around this is, you know, why can't you actually own, you know, that vehicle? Why can't you— someday can we own the Millennium Falcon? You know, maybe, but if nobody's doing anything about it, we won't. So the idea is, let's at least get started, you know, one piece at a time. I think our, you know, really what we've done with Project Aries has not only done that, but, you know, it's not cyberpunk or anything like that. It's something that still feels very normal and accessible, and you can own it.

Yeah, and the more I look at it, the more I'm starting to dig it. It's that kind of product, right? At first it's like, yeah, I like the look of my game, but then I keep on looking at it behind. I love the white, by the way. White looks very good. It's like it grows on you in some regards. What other movies inspired the design? Any like Blade Runner? Any, I don't know, Batmobile? Like what designs inspire you on a daily basis?

I think we're pretty inspired by, and it doesn't necessarily translate one for one in product design, but 2001: A Space Odyssey. one of the original sci-fi films. It's very inspiring to us. So much so that we actually, when we had announced our bike at SEMA, we had built a whole display and put Project Aries inside this box. And we had it completely sealed off. Nobody could touch it. You could only just see it and look. And we had a set put there with a A monolith from 2001: A Space Odyssey kind of overlooking it, really representing like, okay, things are about to change. And that was a really good time for us to really act on that artistic vision, I think, that's been planted from films like that.

How much time till it gets to market? Is it a year or 2?

No, just Q1 of next year we start shipping our first Okay, I asked you about like the manufacturing capacity, right?

Like, so what makes you that confident that you can build like hundreds of these? Maybe not hundreds of these per month, right? Like, let's call it like hundreds per year. Are you at that capacity right now? Any bottlenecks?

So right now we're actually opening orders for Lot 1, which is limited to 250 units. Again, this is a project. We're studying things, including down to how these motorcycles are made. And so we limit it to 250 units for the first year. And for us, you know, at the same time with what we're doing with Project Aries, we are reevaluating too how mobility products are made. We're using a lot of kind of the latest tech, you know, AI computational design, just to see if there's any ways that we can kind of close that gap. basically remove labor as much as we can from the equation and close that gap from engineer to kind of print and produce, if you will. And so for us, the approach has never been, oh, you know, let's raise, you know, $400,000 or $400 million and build this Gigafactory and set up these, you know, production lines, wait 3 or 4 years for that to mature and develop. Rather, we are kind of taking a much more— sustainable approach where we start really with the orders, with aligned capital, with people with shared vision, and starting, you know, this kind of low volume and grow out from there. I think that's a more responsible way to do it and a good way to be sustainable.

I like that. Okay, and the pre-orders, how far are you to your 250 goals?

So far we've announced that we had a first Founder's Edition, which was actually limited to the folks that were following us from the very beginning on the waitlist, and we sold out the first 50 units, uh, and we're continuing to take orders. We're going to be at a couple events this year. Um, one of them, if you may be familiar, EICMA, uh, over in Milan. Uh, we'll be over there later this year.

EICMA Milan, interesting. How do you get these first, uh, pre-orders? Like, um, I mean, it's probably like word of mouth. You'll tell me, like, me, I'm a Systematic guy. Love building stuff that scales, right?

Yeah.

How will you get these?

You can just go on our site and order today. You can pre-order today. But we're taking $500 deposits.

Okay. But is it like just PR that how you get like these first buyers or?

Oh oh.

Get them through the door.

You know, it's really been word of mouth leading up to now. We've been obviously. You know, sharing our prototyping process. We kind of built a community early on and tried to share as much of our vision from the beginning. But no, we haven't really been promoting to the corners yet. We're going to be doing some more events later this year. But, you know, I think when, when these companies, you know, market to you, the customer actually ends up paying for that. You know, there's, there's all this overhead that people don't seem to consider. And, you know, for us, We're an honest and rogue engineering team, and so we think a good product can market itself well. So really, for us, we're just going to get out there and we're going to get product to our first customers and really let it promote itself as much as possible.

Yeah, because in your industry, I mean, it's really the product does the marketing itself, right? Like on the road. People see that and then there's Aries written on it, right? People can Google search or GPT search it and find out what what it's all about. But I think I'd go like very different if I would start in that niche, especially the zero to one phase. Maybe you have like enough press and PR around you. But yeah, just love a system to get these at scale. Any like master plan behind this? Like a la Elon. You know, like Elon was like electrifying the full country, the chargers, starting with the very wealthy, then downscaling to lower classes, and eventually have a robotaxi serving like pretty much everyone, right? It's like, what's the master plan if—

You know, our master plan goes out quite far, and it involves a lot of vertical integration. I think if we talk about a long-term vision of Roam Motors, You know, again, I think we're gonna be in the mobility space for a little bit, focusing on some recreational vehicles, but would love to get into even passenger EV and larger cars, trucks down the road. But we have to build the infrastructure for that. And then a lot of what we're building here too, we have something, just a methodology here we call Manufacto, which is really this focus on not having these gigafactories, but ecosystems in which we can— in a more localized sense. Right now, we're actually— we have our locations in Greenville, South Carolina, so we're in the South, Southeast US. There's a lot of— it's a strong ecosystem with a past of manufacturing. And so it's actually kind of localizing resources down anywhere from CNCs to carbon fiber autoclaves, really localizing that and building a larger ecosystem that can benefit from that. So I think we see Our vision includes this product development intentionality with a team of really passionate engineers that are very creative, not industry experts. We include industry experts, but very creative, wanting to jump into new industries that are challenging the status quo of lots of products in their categories. And as we do that, we keep ecosystem building. Right.

Uh, when's the next round of fundraising? Because I feel this industry is very much capital intensive, right? So when's the next one?

Um, we're, we're fundraising right now to, uh, finish, uh, just to finish our initial raise to get Project Aries to production. Um, that's, that's a bit more of a local raise with some existing investors, but if there's anybody interested, they can definitely reach out. Um, but we're doing another, um, we're doing another fundraising round to kick off our next project and scale production a little bit, a little bit bigger.

There you go. Where can people find out more about you and Aries?

To follow Aries, Project Aries specifically, and as we grow there, Instagram is a great platform, Real Motors Co. Feel free to follow us there and follow the Aries journey. I'm a bit of a LinkedIn fiend, so feel free to follow me on LinkedIn if you want to reach out. For investment opportunities, partnership opportunities. You had mentioned earlier, you know, there's some guys out in the Valley that like to build and utilize different ecosystems and things. We're interested in that. So if there's anybody that would like to collaborate or co-develop any type of projects, we're open to that discussion. So they can reach out to me there too.

It was Trent and Charles for another follow-up.