Vanessa Kahlon - Founder of KFS School

Welcome to another Founder Wisdom podcast. We have Vanessa K. Lynn with us today. She's founder at the KFS School, uh, Yes Yoga, and, uh, 3R Method. She's also an author, uh, one of her books called Shut Up and Parent, or How to Do Parenting with Confidence, and Teaching Confident— Teaching with Heart, um, Self-Care Journal for Teachers. She also runs a podcast called Parenting with Vanessa Kaelin, uh, NSF Vanessa. So welcome to the podcast. Tell us a bit more about yourself and what you've been up to.

Thank you for having me. Yeah, so I have been doing summer camp this summer. Right now we're in between the school year, so this is a great time for the kids to actually get to play. Um, so that has been my summer, mostly need a mini vacation, but that's about it right about now.

There you go. How did you get into all of this, right? Why was it important for you to start your own school? I believe in was 2015, right?

Yeah. So the school's been around now, I want to say 11 years. So what happened was I've struggled my whole life. So I was in special ed. I have dyslexia processing issues, and it really affected me, my self-esteem, my self-worth growing up. And I just never want a child to ever suffer. But I also say the school was an accident. What happened was I provided social coaches in schools, which is someone that would go to a school with a child or an aide and kind of help support them. And then it just so happened that there was a school called Alt School, and I think a lot of parents thought it was for like alternative learning. And so they put all these kids in this school that were more neurodiverse. The school didn't make it, by the way. But I— one December, they just— I had 3 shadows in that school, and they're like, you know what, we don't know what to do with these kids. It's not working. There's too many adults in the classroom. So here you go. So they kicked all the kids out with their own people. And so the next thing you know, they're in my house. And so I thought at that time that I was going to be able to like find places for them. And this is when I think at the beginning where the school kind of started, there's a lot more behaviors. Uh, I'm talking about throwing a computer. Um, where, where we were located, there was a street outside, and sometimes remember balls going out there going, I hope no one has a car because in a car wreck— and it was also like one room. And so you can imagine telling two kids to take a break and then in the corner and like they're just yelling at each other because everyone has to have the last word. So it kind of started from there, and then, you know, we've gotten into more twice exceptional children. So we went from more behavioral, um, more on the high functioning autism to twice exceptional as the new, the new term is, I would say. Are you familiar with that one?

Uh, no, not that much. I mean, we've all saw like Rayman, right? Or like Forrest Gump type.

Yeah. Yeah, so the twice exceptional would be someone's like really smart in a certain area, but then high, like the academic piece. A lot of my kids are, are with math and they're scoring the top percentage, so, but they can't seem to read a social situation, right? So if somebody gets in line and they're like, oh my God, they just cut in front of me, or they accidentally touched their shoulder and it's like, you're hitting me. You did this. So a lot of it is like perspective, right? So like looking at how do you teach kids that there's different situations and different things that happen that what you perceive is not what it is. Does that make sense?

Yes. You have like a lot of hyperactives as well. I was ADD. I was smart. I wasn't like socially inept, but teachers never liked me inside their classes. You have this kind?

Yeah, they're all like that. And you know, it's not— so you're really smart, right? So I mean, I'm sure when you're younger— and this is since I have dyslexia and my own issues, and kids are always correcting me and I don't take it personally. And I think that happens a lot of times when you're a teacher and you get a super active kid that is very bright in certain areas, and then you say something and then they're like all of a sudden Um, they're correcting you, and then they're not thinking they're doing anything wrong, but then the teacher gets irritated and annoyed, and then you become like the problem child, right? Because they're being disrespectful. I can't believe they're being this way to the adult, which is not what teaching is about, right? It's growing together, figuring things out, in my opinion, because I'm always making mistakes, always, and I get called out for everything I do.

Well, I think Nia is like, also the education system is fundamentally dysfunctional. You put like one teacher in a classroom with 30 kids that are not meant to be there. Nia was like, this is so fucking dumb and boring. I'm just gonna crack jokes to make the environment less tense, right? Everything's so tense. It's like, oh, do this test or listen to a teacher for hours. How ridiculous is that, right? I don't think any human brain is meant for this. And I think that students that excelled in school, they, they were good for one era, which was a corporate era, which is coming to its end, right? Like, just being a good yes man and always saying yes to things, right, in corporate, climbing the corporate ladder. But I think with AI, all of that's coming to an end. I think people need to launch their business. They, um, People need to have their own thoughts, right? They need to be creative, and it's fundamentally a, a new set of skills that needs to be taught. And most of the time it's like, why not give 1 or 2 or 3 or 5 AIs per student instead of 1 teacher, uh, fragmented to 30 students, right? Like, these are questions that pop to my mind nowadays.

You know, that's a great question. I think for me, with the kids that I have working in a group and being able to understand the social situation is really important. The AI has a great way of teaching to a certain level, but I also think there's that interpersonal piece that is important. I think I just saw somewhere that there was a, a law school— I don't know which one it was— that, but they're, they're— the first year is no computers. Like, you actually have to have critical thinking skills versus relying on AI and other things. And I think my kids, the AI piece would be really great in certain situations, but if they can't understand a social skill set, or when they're out in the community, that's where they can get in trouble. And then if you're looking at building relationships and friendships, if you don't have that skill set— and that's a lot of the times, like, a lot of my kids are not invited to birthday parties, they're not invited to places because of their own behavior— and you don't want to go through life like that. So I think there's, there's a balance, right, between the social and also are we teaching critical thinking skills?

Um, with my computer at uni level, I was running my businesses instead of listening to teachers, and I dropped out actually. I was like, I'm making more money than my teachers, so I dropped out. Yeah, I understand the social skills, hyper important. Some of The kids you work with might not have that. I have some thesis around that as well. I think social skills are super important, right? Like, in the future of business, you might not even have to deal with humans. You might just have to deal with your agents, but I think happiness is like fundamental as human beings, and if you miss the social part and you're always on your own island, that can bring like deep mental health issues, right? I think humans are meant to socialize. You absolutely need to, Teach them that. But I think ironically, I think the most financially successful business operators in 10, 15, 20 years from now, I think they're very much going to be on the spectrum and just going to manage agents. They're not even going to deal with humans. Some of their agents might have great personality and deal with humans, but I think they're just going to be great at the fundamentals, right? Like math and science and all of these things. What do you think about that?

I mean, I, I just see a lot of— we were talking about the mental health piece, right? A lot of my kids would rather have their iPad or rather be on something where they're doing it, and they'll tell me that this is boring. But I mean, to me as a teacher, when I'm hearing that, it's like, okay, well, how do we make things different? A lot of times it's creating things and doing things together, right? And whether it's coming with their own business— most of my kids want to like riot in the school though. Like, they're ready to— like, they call me a dictator. They say that that's all— that's why the school but they're really sad inside. There's a lot of sadness, right? Because that connection piece. Um, but I do think we are going in a different world in a different way, and it's going very fast. I don't think you technically need to have, you know, go to college or anything like that. I think having some form of skill or something that you're really good at. But again, going back into that social piece, because I— there's a high number of kids with suicide rates and with depression. And I've had kids up to 5 and 6 years old that are like, I want to kill myself.

Oh my God.

So I work from a different population where I would do more— I do more— they don't like writing, right? And then having come up with their own ideas is— if you're looking at executive functioning, right, which is the planning and organizing of the brain and how you do it and how you write a paper, like, I would rather spend time trying to organize that piece so they can actually do the AI things, because a lot of times they wouldn't know where to start. They can do all these, you know, put everything in, but then what do you do with it?

Yeah, let's start with the social, uh, part, and then we'll get to suicide topic, which is quite, uh, heavy. Um, me, you know, I've been like a popular kid when I was younger, but then I had this phase in adolescence in which I was very comfortable by myself and just like with video games, right? Um, and I was sort of alienated slash hijacked by video games, right? World of Warcraft, to be precise, which is like the most addictive video game ever. Um, and then I discovered partying around like 17 and 18, and that became my new thing, which was good and bad, right? But it got me out of my social— antisocial shell, right? I think, like you said, it's just about teaching someone at being good at something, right? Be good at making friends, or be good at, I don't know, deploying products that, uh, will be popular, right? That can be music on YouTube, for example. Um, how do you teach that to a kid that is hooked to video games? And also, like, how do you not teach a kid to be hooked to video games?

I mean, that's where it's having a conversation, and if that comes down to parenting, right? And like, how much screen time you're going to give your kids. I'm not anti-screen time on there. Um, But I think being able to have that conversation of just what that is, but also finding what they're really good at, right? So if you're really good about like, you know, you know, organizing how to revolt at my school, well, let's see, let's find a topic or something that you care about outside of school and then let's bring that into the school, right? So again, it's looking at how do we bring the community into the school? How do we bring what you want to do versus like, I mean, I had a kid that could tell me every single person that did a shooting at a school. Every name, but they'll switch it to something like more positive. And again, but it's looking at the signs of, okay, what is— what are things that you're interested in? What are your strengths? Now, whether your strengths are going into the dark side, right, because a lot of them do, but like, how do we bring in more light? And that's where it comes into how do you feel about yourself. So the more things that a child can do, make their own choices, right? I'm always— I'm never telling a kid you're gonna go do this. It's gonna be like, do you want to do this? Or this, right? What is your choice? Because when a child feels like they have a choice and that they can take responsibility for the choices that they make, that's where you're going to see the shift. Do you really think it's a good idea that you're on it for an hour versus like 30 minutes? What do you think is good for you? So again, if you're going to tell a child like, okay, you're only going to do this, they're going to want more, right? They're going to be like, I want more, I want this, I— that's it. But if like, okay, if we look at the data. And my kids need like the why, right? Why are you telling me not to do this? I can't just say, hey, we're not going to do this. They need to know why. Where'd you get that information? I need to actually believe you, right? And then from there it's like, okay, what choices can you make to make it easier? How do you feel about yourself when you're doing this? Are you too tired at night? If you're looking at, I think it was like 2, you wanted 1 hour of have no screens before bedtime to have a good solid night of sleep. So again, looking at how the brain is working, and that's the stuff that I would teach, is the science behind what's being said. And then they make their choices, right? But if you're telling them, no, you're not going to do this, or this is bad for you, we need more explanation. Because then the kid's like, you're trying to control me.

But most of them— well, I mean, all of them never even chose to be in the school system, right? So how do you, um, How do you overcome this paradigm?

What do you mean they haven't been in the school system?

My kids, they didn't choose to go to school, right?

My kids have been in the regular system. Um, I've been— and then the parents like, this is too— most of them been like asked to leave certain schools.

Yeah, like myself every year for 15-ish years, I've been, I've been fired from my childcare.

Well, see, I've been fired from every job I've ever had because I ask why all the time. And I graduated high school with a 1.87. I was never in school. I was out partying, doing my own thing. And now I have— that's karma come back and I have to teach all these grades. So I have to go back in my 20s and go, well, here we are. But I think I actually believe that a smaller— if you're looking at education, it should be in a smaller classroom. Because you can actually really have foster the child's growth versus 30 kids when you're just slipping through every little way that you could do it and you don't— and half the time you're bored.

To come back to the question, like, most didn't choose to be there, right? It's like, I guess they can forget about it. It's like, have the horde lead itself to water through like activities and fun stuff and choice on a daily basis. And something not so structured, right? Um, I saw you have like bikes in the classroom or something like that. I like that, like physical activity, right? Or just if teachers would have brought me at least like 1 hour outside every day, like in the morning, like just to spend all that energy, right? Like I would have been way more docile. Like hacks like that, right?

Yeah, no, the bikes are great. It helps with focus. Um, the kids are not— they're all— they're always moving. They're always moving those legs. You know, I think the difference for the, the model that I've been able to create is that kids can take as many breaks as they need, so they're not stuck. No one ever feels stuck, and so they don't want to leave, right? So if you feel like you're stuck in there, you have to do it. So as they're moving— so once the academic starts, right, so we're doing math— once they're done, they can go leave the room and they can go play a game, they can do something else, or if they— or if we have a group outside, they can go play. And then we keep going. And then as we see the other kids need a little bit more support, then we stay and we support the ones that are— that need a little bit more time. So again, it's the— it's being more fluid. It's being structured but more open within the structure.

I still remember looking at that clock on my wall for primary school. It was so boring. It was like such a trap, right? It's like, I'm stuck here. Um, and the only normal mechanism I could find to survive that— I think survive's the word, right? Like, make jokes and like convert it into something fun and just joke around with my friends, right? Which is pretty sad when you look at it from a distance. And like, uh, do this to a child, right, that has like zero knowledge of the world or, um, cannot get out of it, right? Is the only thing my parents knew also. And like not just my parents, but like all parents out there. Like, back then there wasn't like a lot of option, right? And ironically, the childcare I was fired from— I mean, I think it was the second one I was fired from— it was like Montessori. They called it Montessori, but it wasn't even Montessori. It wasn't even Montessori. It was like, dude, you had to wear private uniforms. Like, is that even— that's like Montessori theater, right? It's not real Montessori. It's like Oh, we have them play with blocks, but we have them wear fucking uniforms. What is this?

You know, yeah, we don't do uniforms. I understand the concept because there's other kids that don't have, you know, money and whatnot, so it's just easy to put everyone in a uniform so everyone looks the same. But yeah, no, we don't do uniforms. I think, you know, how you dress and everything else is how you, you know, show your personality.

Yeah, and like, counter Montessori, because Montessori is playful, it's creative. It's freedom, it's libertarian, then you're gonna put uniforms on. Anyway, shout out to Kinderville. That was Kinderville in Candiac, Quebec, Canada. Uh, fucked up school. But, um, talk to stay on the, the right track here. Uh, your school, right, like it's 20 children that you have? That's around—

uh, no, we're actually smaller than that. I, I actually want to have a small— so I— the 3 Rs that I developed, which is the Redo, Rewind, and Repair was picked up. So it's my social-emotional curriculum. It's looking at how do we teach kids empathy, how do we be able to read certain situations, how do you understand that your actions affect other people. Because I think that's what's missing too. No one's taking responsibility for their own behavior anymore. And so that has been picked up by San Bernardino and Rialta. So I actually travel, and it's in Spanish, um, so it's Tier 3 families that I'm working with. So I took this model because what I found was that Rewards don't work. They make no sense. It's like, okay, you're gonna get something for doing something. Kids will come up to me, I was like, did you see I was kind? What do I get? A friend? Like, I'm sorry, a community? Like, what are you gonna do? But also punishment doesn't work, or consequences. So a lot of kids are like, I don't care, take what you want, take what you want, I don't care, you know. So then where does that come from? So what I found is that that comes from the self-esteem and of a child not feeling they're worth it. So my thing is really the 3 Rs, that the kids can come in, they can learn a different way, they can be taught like how to, you know, the communication skills. You know, when they get frustrated, I'll throw something. And I'll also like understand that their behaviors have consequences. And, and then what is also the empathy piece. And so that was picked up. And so I go, I travel in LA, um, at the end of the week, you know, I do like 4-week sessions and then I come back and the school's kind of my way of like trying things out. And then, but going from like, you know, what everyone here in San Francisco is like 1 or 2 kids, I'm going to San Bernardino and they have like each, some families are like 5 to 7 kids. So then like, how do you get that connection and how do you work through that? And a lot of these children are absentees. So, and they, some of them live in a car, you know, they, I've seen it all and just really teaching the parents and the teachers like, hey, how do we, come from a relationship-based approach where the child doesn't feel like you're telling them what to do and forcing them to do it and they're shutting down versus like, okay, how do we give them choices so they feel they have some control in their life? Because right now they have none, right? There's no money. They like sometimes are hungry. So there's, there's all these other things to look at. Wow.

Yeah. Um, so ideally, yeah, lack of punishment, right? That's fascinating. Granted, we're in like a system that promotes like penitentiary type mentality, and their whole judiciary system is like about giving people punishment, right? How do you control yourself not to get into that mindset? Because their natural state as human beings, like, oh, you do this to me, I do that to you, right?

It's like, uh, yeah, I don't, I don't think that my brain is not wired that way. It's more like, okay, you did something because you might be hurting inside, or do you, did you not know a different way? And you got to look at like what is going on for the other person, and that's how I look at that as. And maybe that's what my dad always raised me to be. If somebody's coming at you or is not being kind, just feel sorry for them. Something's going on with them. And so that's my message as a child. And so I don't have that tit for tat, right? My thing is, and especially with children, when they're doing something and it's like there's, there's a screaming match or they're starting to hit one another, it's like, well, they don't have that language in that moment. And so my thing is to teach. So when we teach it, that's when we're going to go to, you know, understanding like there is a different way and there's some role playing that goes with it. But then we're going to follow up with the repair. Right? So if I'm attacking you for whatever reason, whether it's verbally or physically, how did that make me feel that happened? And then how can I make it better? Right? So it comes down to, A, taking responsibility. And then if they don't want to be your friend for a little bit, that's fine too. But we're going to come back in time and be friends. But again, it's teaching. And I think a lot of times when we're like, we're going to take something away, And then half of the times parents don't follow through with it. And then what are we teaching when you're not following? When you tell your kid you're going to do something, right? So it's almost like, we're gonna leave in 5 minutes, but we were leaving 20 minutes. What are we teaching? We're teaching that they can't trust you. Your word— yeah, like, your word means nothing. And so for me, it's like, I'm all— I'm extremely consistent, uh, I follow through with it. And like, even with the kids, and they're like, oh, you're lying. I'm like, have I ever lied to you? I can literally tell each kid, like, have I ever lied? I have not. Because I know if I do it one time, I'm done and I get busted because everything— it's like, remember that time 8 months ago at 2:23 PM, you'd said this and I didn't get this?

Yeah, they're all trying to get you. They're looking for a way out themselves, right? That's what they've been taught, most of them, before they step in the school. So yeah, I gotta emanate excellence, but doesn't have Doesn't like that have an actual price on you, like always maintaining super high standards? How do you manage your own stress?

I think I get— and, um, it's hard with friends because if I see friends, like if friends have kids and I see, like, I have a little bit of a hard time, like, oh my God, what are you doing? So I don't want to be around, to be honest. Like sometimes I'm like, uh, what are we doing? And I can't— like, I just I just have to not say anything, right? But, um, I'm working on like the stress piece, you know. I, I love what I do, so I don't feel like I'm working. Yeah, like most people don't want to be yelled at. I just had a meeting for lunch today. She's like, how, how, why are you doing this? Because it's really difficult.

And like, you have a deeper purpose, right? Because you've been there and that's your life purpose. Just like myself, why do I want to launch that AI school because I have that chip on my shoulder, right? The education system failed me straight up, and I want to make it better. I don't want my daughter or any ambitious kids with energy that, uh, need an outlet to live the same situation.

It's true. And I think that's also why I do what I do. I don't want to see another child suffer because I had learning issues and I didn't get diagnosed until I was 26. Imagine if I would have been diagnosed a lot sooner. Even to this day, I think my mom, in the last like year, she's heard me on my podcast and she's like, I'm so sorry. I go, but 20 years ago there, there wasn't the services that they are now.

My parents said that as well. Yeah, that's okay. You just created a chip on my shoulder that made me very rich. So it's like, no, no problem. But it was painful, right? It was— I mean, I had a nice childhood, but school I have like a sour taste in my mouth with school. And not, not just like primary school, high school specifically. College started getting better, and but uni, I, I even uni, I have something against it, right? Like the grading system. I was supposed to become a lawyer. I had like 87% average in my scores. They still didn't let me in. I wanted the, the lawyer role way more than most people in there, but they still didn't let me in, right? So there's all kinds of stuff that needs to be reshaped around that system. Um, yeah, I'm just glad to have folks like you on my podcast, talk it out, get it out of my chest. Um, thanks for being on, Vanessa. Where can people— what— where can people find out more about you?

So if you can go to my website, it's Vanessa, V-A-N-E-S-S-A K-A-H-L-O-N, and everything's on there. My school, the yoga, the 3 Rs. I have a radio show on Mondays, so if you want to come on, you can.

There you go, Vanessa.