🔊 Vocal Coaching Techniques, Fear and Authenticity with Roger Burnley CEO of the Burnley Method

Foreign. Welcome to another edition of Coaching Wisdom Podcast. Today we have with us Roger Burnley. He is CEO of the Burnley Method, and he is also a vocal coach. Gonna have a nice conversation about many topics today. Roger, can you introduce yourself?

Yes. So, Charles, it's interesting. I love that you said, I'm a vocal coach, and this will explain everything and why I use the Burden Method. I was a vocal coach for many years. I still do it now, but that was where I first began. But I've done that for more than 30 some years and developed all kinds of people all over the world. And then at some point, I said, wait a minute, Something's changing here. I got to go in another direction. And so it was about empowerment and life coaching, and that's where I've gone now. But then it was so crazy that I thought, how could this person have all these different things that I'm doing? So then I changed the name. I said, the Burnley Method. Because what I want people to understand is that we come into the world with different skills and gifts and all of that, and we're supposed to use all of them. And they may show up at different times in our life or whatever, but we each have something that we're meant to develop. And what happened over the vocal coaching years? I started to find so many people who were not in touch with who they were, and that's why they want to, you know, they're afraid of singing or even using their voices in some instances. And that's a lot of the work that I did. So then I knew, okay, I've got to move into helping people know who they are and live that life.

So how is it to be a vocal coach in la? Who did you coach? What did you teach them, and what lessons did you brought with you up to this day?

Well, I. Yeah, that's a good one. There's so much in there. Well, the first thing was I started coaching because I was afraid I had this issue that I needed to figure out with my own voice. When I was 12 years old, I thought I could sing. I thought, maybe that's something there. I didn't know. But then what got implanted in me was that something was wrong with my voice. I don't know if it really happened, but I remember hearing someone say that to me, and I had to get over it. And it plagued me my entire life through college, you know, high school and college. I'm always in choirs and I'm singing, and everybody else pushed me to go. I didn't think I was that good they did. And then one. And then in 1988, that's how long ago this was. This one coach that I had, he said, you have to become a coach. I go, no, I can't do that. I'm going to screw something up. It's too terrible. And he goes, no, you know more than you think you do. You know more than anybody else, and you can help a lot of people. And so that's where I started. I didn't know how to play music. I didn't understand music. I didn't know a lot of things. But I said, I'll figure it out. And that's exactly what I did. And I started go into more intuitive, you know, with. With my clients, because I could feel where they were. I could sense that a bit. And that's how I developed all of my coaching. And then I started creating different programs after that. We created one program called Singing Made simple in which over a few years, it sold over a million dollars. And I'm thinking, how did this happen from someone who is afraid of trying to do this and using a skill? And then all of a sudden, I'm training people all over the world. And when I began, the two people that I'll talk about, this is 1990, I started with. There was Macy Gray. I don't know if you've even heard of Macy Gray. She was an artist. Some people would know her. She was an artist. But she's still performing to this day. But she started out as someone who didn't want to sing. She just wrote things. But then. And people told her, your voice is terrible. Get lessons. So that's why she came to me. But then the other part with her, she. She. She got a record deal. But then it was wrong. It wasn't who she was. She left the business, came back and then became Macy Gray and became famous. Then I had another one on Brandy who was a singer. She's an R and B singer. She's still. She's still working now as well. She was 12 when she started with me. But she. Again, she was already talented and all that, but she had a physical problem that would cause her voice to always become hoarse. So I became really. I became an expert at getting voices to stay in place. There was one time one of the Beastie Boys had. They were doing a concert and the lead guy, his voice was gone and they had a big concert in LA that night. I had to get his voice back. And I did that. Yeah.

Oh, it's okay. So I have a bunch of Follow up questions. First thing, how did you get his voice back? Was it like honey or like weird, like medicines like that? How did you do it?

No, nothing. I don't. I didn't use anything because all that stuff, it's. That stuff does help because it just lubricates the throat and all that, you know, but it doesn't get on. Nothing gets on the vocal cords themselves. When you're hoarse, it means that you've done something that caused your vocal cords to become inflamed. And so. And it's just a physical movement that you've been doing, and you've been doing it repetitively. And so that's what causes the hoarseness. And so what I know how to do is how to get that swelling to go down a bit so at least you can talk and sing. And it's just a matter of going through doing vocal exercises that just change inside, that's all.

Really? I didn't know that. Yeah, inflammation. Interesting. In my mind, the visuals was like muscle that was kind of broken, but they are cords. Are they like. Are they muscles or like, how was the physiognomy behind?

Yes, the. The vocal cords are attached this way. This is our voice box, our larynx, and the vocal cords are inside that way. And when we speak, the vocal cords come together this way to be able to create a sound because the air is vibrating around, you know, coming up through the windpipe. And if you're pushing too much, they rub together. If you're pushing in a. In an awkward way or improper way, then what happens is the chords themselves. If you can think of a callus or something, you know, where you're rubbing something together all the time and it becomes sore or that. So with the vocal cords, they just become. They become inflamed. And so now the chords people their horse because their voice is out there instead of being able to make a connection. That's what happens.

That's very surprising. So I went to Vegas not so long ago to this crazy pole party, and I was screaming, and the next day I couldn't speak. So you're telling me that with exercises you could have fixed my voice?

Yes, because. Oh, I got so fast. I get it so very quick. I mean, within the first day you're going to feel something. I can tell you. Right, well, what's going on for you? You have a great voice, but what happens for it? Because you have a great tone to your voice, but because of that, you have a tendency to stay a little bit back in your Throat a bit. And so then when you start to try to get loud and yell, then you push up in there and then your swallowing muscles come down. If you. And when you swallow, if you put your thumb under there, I'll show you what I'm talking about. But if you put your thumb under your jaw, you can feel when you slap. You feel. Yeah, when you're. Okay, now when you. Okay, now keep your thumb there for a little bit. Now just start to speak a little bit.

Hello. Hello, hello, hello, Hello.

Okay, you feel that little movement?

Yeah, yeah, I can feel it.

You shouldn't have that at all. That shouldn't be there at all. Now do this. Now make a strange face. And you people in your podcast won't hear to see this, but make a strange face. Okay, now speak again. Just. Yeah, keep that. Just, just, just. Now speak again. Just stay there.

That's 1, 2. That's 1, 2. Yeah, it's a bit better. It still moves a little bit.

But, but if you're not change. But change your face a lot more. Yeah, you won't feel it if you do that. You know, you won't feel it. And that's more of where your natural place should be and when we can train you into that. You'd never have a problem with getting horse or anything.

Yeah, and people will see my weird face, by the way, because they see the video.

But that'll be good.

I mean, that's. That's very interesting. I have a bunch of follow up questions there. So who's a famous artist that lost his voice for quite a while? Who was it again? I. I can't remember. Is it still young or like who?

There have been a lot. I mean, a lot of them have done that. There was a time where Adele had to cancel her concerts because she had lost. She had a ruptured vocal cord. There have been so many over the years, and that's what I started seeing. And so years ago, I was developing things to prevent that from happening. None of my clients lose their voices.

And a ruptured vocal cord, that is grave. You probably can't fix that.

Or. Well, yes you can. It depends. You can. Sometimes it's just complete voice rest I've had. You can also get nodules and all of that on your. On your vocal cords or polyps. And sometimes they can resolve on their own. They can heal on their own just with complete rest. But that complete rest means at least three days of not saying a simple, a single word. You can't say anything.

I did it for Days in my silent meditation retreat. It was very hard.

Exactly. So you are. So you get it. And so that's what. That's what they do. And then. But then they come back. But then we have to do rehabilitation because we have to change the habits that caused the condition to come up in the first place.

And that was one part of your business. Right? Or like, did you.

You do.

You did prevention, you did fixing, but you also did, like, vocal improvement to hit higher tones on some specific songs as well. Right? So performance.

Absolutely. Yeah. And it's. And that's all about technique. It's all about understanding the body, your body and the nature of what your. Your voice can do. We have people have different Flex flexibility in the vocal cords. So that was what flexibility means, that you just have all this freedom. You can hit higher notes and this, that, and the other. So it's just different for every person.

And is. Is vocals mostly a psychological thing? You know, like, for example, could Celine Dion hit these notes because of her body language and the emotion she put. What are the hacks that makes you a better, more powerful, more heartfelt singer?

It is the emotion. It's about. What I try to go for is this. And this is what I think makes a real artist, where you can let all of your emotions come through and get into it without having your voice suffer as a result of that. Because that's what happens a lot. Sometimes you get into the passion of doing something and performing, but. But you're doing it in the wrong way. And then over time, if you're doing camp concert after concert, your voice blows out. And so many people. Mariah Carey had problems with her voice all the time. Who was the other one? New York, Alicia Keys. Same thing. There's so many.

Alicia was so. I mean, she's very, very talented. She did so many hits. Did she come to la? Did you most mostly coach artists on the west coast, or did you also have east coast artists come to you?

I had everywhere. When? Before we had the Internet, before we started doing all of this. I had them coming from everywhere. I had people coming from one year ahead. A whole bunch of people come from Japan. Yeah. And they came and rented a hotel room. And I coached like 18 of them at the same time. It's funny, because they didn't speak English either. So I. We had to use a translator. Then I had a. Another lady would bring me a lot of clients. She would come in, she would just. It was a management company and they would bring clients from China. And this one, she became A big star. I can't remember her name now. This is many, many years ago. But again, we would work with. I would work with the translator. But the funny thing was, they would sing in English. They could sing English song. They didn't know what they meant.

Lots of. Lots of people are like that. Surprisingly enough. You know, I know lots of French people that can sing very well, and maybe that's an emotional part in the brain, but when they speak English, it's different. It's like if they get in some kind of character in their heads a second construct a new personality, and they. They have zero accent, but when they speak English, they have that accent. It's weird, no?

Right. Yeah, exactly. And then there are other things. I mean, I had so many things I could tell you forever, but there was. I mean, I had people who would come to me. Like, I had this one soap opera star who came for. His managers called me up and they wanted him to get lessons. And I said, okay, great. Well, I'll do that. And he had an album already done, and he was. They were going to have a release party for it. And I said, okay, we can get him ready for that. I go to meet him in the office, and I'm sitting there and I'm listening to the recording. I'm going, it sounds so great. Why would you need anything? And then I thought for a second, I go, wait a minute. I go, sing this. He couldn't sing any of it. He could not sing any of it. I'm telling you, Charles, this is what happens. And I'm looking, I go, oh, no. They had recorded all of this. They tricked. They would, like, do it a bit at a time. And then the producers made it all sound great because you can do that. There's technology that you can make anyone sound wonderful. But he had to do a live performance now. He had to perform these songs live. So I worked with him for a while, and then we did the concert came, and he was doing at the Hard Rock Cafe. We did the concert, and then the producers came up to me afterwards. They go, what did you do? How did you get him to sing? We had to get him drunk before, just to get notes out.

At times, getting drunk was like that, forcing the thing to happen on the short term. But if we take, like, someone that has more time in its hand, is it fair to say that it's like 80% mindset and 20% technical?

It's different. Most mindset is always there. I don't care who the artist is. It's Always there. Even the famous ones always have that because they're more concerned. However. But it's always. It is the mindset. But then everybody comes in with a different kind of level of physical ability. It doesn't matter because I can always get them to whatever, you know, to. If they stay with it, they. I can get them there, but they just have a different place where they begin in terms of how talented they might be.

Yeah, I'm thinking of, like, Lady Gaga right now. Like, she's a superstar. She probably have a bunch of people working on her, which is my philosophy as well. I view myself, you know, as a product and I'll need a coach for my fitness. Just like, yes, a famous senior will need someone for fitness, someone for flexibility, someone. Someone for. To talk, you know, about their emotions and what they go through that makes them all powerful on stage. Is that how a superstar views you, for example? Or can you help that superstar on many of these aspects? Or do they have a coach for vocal? A coach for this, a coach for that?

Not all. Some have. Some might have that. Some might have a mindset coach or a performance coach or whatever I would combine. I do all of that because I'm always looking at the entire person. And so I'm giving them advice about their performances, letting them know what might come up and all of that. So it just depends. Every person will have something different. Some people have. No, they don't have any mental hold, but they. They're just free. They just do things, but then they go to sing and then their voices blow up because physically they're not in a great place. Other people can be great, great singers, but they're just too afraid to go out there. So it's different.

I think superstars combine a lot of things. For example, I was about to ask you if you work with some rapper, because I think the best rappers nowadays, they include lots of vocals like Drake or the Weekend.

Yes.

I mean, I think that that's the present and the future in terms of music. Did you ever work with some rappers that wanted to get into vocals?

Well, well, like I said, with the Beastie Boys, that was one. That was the first ones that I start. That began with. And then I had others who came, who were. Who started as. Who were rappers or whatever. But then they said, I want to sing, though, too, because they wanted to start to do their own hooks on their songs. And so I started working a lot with them in that way.

Did you ever work with or. Or. No. Russell Simmons?

No. Didn't. Didn't. Work.

Not Russell Simmons. What's his name?

The.

The hippie dude with the. The long hair, super successful. He worked with the Beastie Boys. He was their manager. What's his name?

I'm not sure.

I'll find it out. Yeah, he's like a billionaire right now and he's on the west coast. I'll find his name. But coming back to that area era of your life, it seems you were pretty successful back in these days. That was like the 90s, right? So I started it.

Yeah, I started in 1988 and then I put out the one program in 2000. No, I'm sorry, in 2010. That's when I put out that one program that did really well. That was the singing made simple one. And so, yeah, and then I just kept doing that and working with folks. But then I moved into other areas. I did a program called the Complete Artist where I got people in touch with who they were.

The.

Then I did one on performance. Because performance is something that people have trouble with or get afraid of. And I get them to get in touch with why they're doing it. Change and then changes.

Yeah, I mean. And by the way, the name. I mean, Russell Simmons is the partner of Rick Rubin, which is the guy was thinking.

Oh, right, Rick Rubin. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, this is so interesting. Like you told me a little bit about my vocals because I think, you know me, I'm in sales and when I speak to people, I think they know from my voice, my voice and my intonation about what's up, you know, am I honest, am I passionate, what's my level of energy, what will I bring to the table? And I always. I often write about voice in calls and intonations and so forth. I also believe that singing is healing also. Like, I think there's like this. This thing in us humans. The rhythm of the heart, let's say, and the fact that we used to dance around a fire and to celebrate thing. It was a thing of events. And I also think that tone naturally heals the brain with the hurts, you know, in the brain and the. The meditative waves, for example. So firstly, can you sense in me? And second, did everything that I mentioned, you agree with most of it?

Yes. But let me explain something else. And so this is what I'm so glad you said about tone. Because every single person has a wonderful voice tone within them. They may not have developed the physical abilities or they may have adapted certain physical things. Habits that blocks the tone from coming through. So what I'm always doing is shifting. So they are operating at a place of integrity from their own bodies. Body is supposed to work to get the optimal. The most out of their voice. And then they have beautiful tones. That's. So it's everywhere.

Okay, interesting. So that. That's something that you teach. And it's also something I value very much in business, you know, just being your authentic self. More energy is generated from there, more authenticity. You don't need to complicate yourself with thinking of lies, you know, and covering yourself up. I mean, you're just yourself. You're that true, powerful essence. Because I think that every human being is this incredible source of. Of energy. Which is why if you watch the movies, like some movies like the Matrix, they are. The robots are harvesting us for the energy we have inside us in the mitochondria and all of that. And I'm. This.

That's what you're speaking of now is the program is my new work. It's a program I created called Four Weeks to youo Best Life. And what that is, is. It's. It's guiding people to their authenticity. It's like the thing is, everybody has something to offer the world, except what we do is that we judge ourselves. We don't understand if we have something about us that we don't. We don't think is quite right. Well, we were given that for a reason. And that is to figure out, why do we have this? What am I supposed to do with it? How can I transcend it? How can I overcome it, whatever it is? And as we move through that, it is showing us the authenticity of who we are lives and why we're in the world. Because there's some value to be found in anything that. That we have. And I. Because I can say this because I went through so much crap in my life.

Tell us about that crap.

I. I jumped around from. From. From job to job because I always knew that there was some place I was supposed to be that didn't feel right. I mean, the places that I were. Were not that ultimate. You know, I wasn't in the right place. And then because of that, I. I kept trying to create other businesses. I created a couple of them, and some did really well, others failed. And I just. Then I started going through physical problems. I had all sorts of illnesses and diseases and accidents and things. And I know now that it was resistance. It was resistance to me going in the direction that I was being guided. And I see this with my clients all the time as well, because I believe that every single Person has this place that they're meant to be in their lives, that it would give them happiness, joy, abundance, all of that. But sometimes we've been talked out of that. We've been programmed out of it, depending on how we grew up, what we learned or whatever. But we can always undo it. So this program takes people through this deep dive into who they are and reprogramming what they thought about that to. They become this in these empowered people to do what they're meant to do in life.

Sure. You know, this, these are kind of basic principles, you know, to take who you are and, you know, stop always trying to. Because there's another approach. Right. Which is 1% better and you, you carve yourself on a daily basis. I've been personally very successful with this approach. I. This approach. I've changed the crappy part of me, like almost 100% since these last seven years, you know, but there's always this Charles essence. Who, who is Charles? You know, he's these. This rebel, rebellious kid, ambitious, you know, very creative. So I never changed that part of me. And I always try to stay in touch with, with this part of me. And that's very much what. What propels me. And I think when I was listening to you talking, I was seeing a river and I would see these huge boulders that we sometimes drop in our life. And yes, that can be good. Sometimes it takes the form of starting a new business or taking a huge challenge like an ironman. I'm preparing for another Iron man right now. And sometimes it's just too much resistance and sometimes that can bring illness and, you know, blockages in your life. So the question I have for you is what is the equilibrium between inviting new stuff to your life and trying to change yourself versus keeping in touch with who you truly are to progress in life?

It's. When I look at everything, it's like. For one thing I came up with is about fear because I wrote a book on fear called Overcoming Fear, A Guide to Freedom.

Fascinating.

Yeah. And so because what it is, I said, okay, there are only two types. There's. There's real fear and there's artificial fear. And so the real fear is that fear, that which might be seen as caution, meaning we're not going to do this thing because it could cause us to hurt ourselves, to harm ourselves or harm someone else possibly. Maybe that's going to.

Jumping from a bridge.

Exactly that. That's a good one. Everything else, though, is stuff we made up. Yeah.

Like doing an iron man. I mean, it's possible for everyone to do an Iron Man. It is possible. It is effing scary, but it is doable.

Yes. And then. And what you feel as you go through that is like, wow, I'm this great. I'm this. I'm more me now. And you just keep becoming more evolved, you know, and this is why you do the work that you do, because you have lived that life where you were determined to break down that old stuff. A lot of people aren't willing to do that because it's just. It becomes a little too scary or they don't believe that they can because they've been talked out of it, you know. Oh, yeah, that's a whole nother thing. I saw the thing of TV show documentary I saw where these people were really programmed out of believing anything that they had anything within them that was worth anything.

Occult.

Yes. Yeah, that's exactly what it was.

Literally.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, like, okay, a bunch of interesting things here. If I reflect, like on my life, I can point out two examples of adversity that I invited. And definitely there were good adversities. Entrepreneurship being one. Extreme events such as Ironmans or climbing Mexico's highest mountain, for example, or entering. Entering in a sacred union with my wife, you know, and truly being that the man that I can be. But I can also think of early example of phase one or two of my life in which, you know, I was 17 and partying and doing drugs and alcohol and getting into all sorts of trouble, challenging myself in a toxic way. So my question is, like, what first, do we tend to challenge us with dumb stuff until we mature into grown adult? That's my first question. The second is, what is a healthy challenge versus a challenge that can break your life apart?

A healthy challenge would be something that you're a little afraid of doing, but you know, it's going to take you to where you want to go. We always know that. We always know that there's. And everybody's not going to do the same thing. We don't all we. We're born with our individual blueprints, what we're meant to follow. And you know, that comes to us before we're bored. So. And then we, as we live our lives, they come out. You did all of that stuff you were given that. I'm going to say it this way. You were given all the stuff you did when you were younger because you knew that when you broke out of that and moved through it, you were going to help so many other people who might be going in that place. And so you ended up right where you were meant to be. And so you can see those. You can see those things in others. Their fear, they're holding back and all of that because of what you have done. And so now other people would have done what you did in your earlier days and could have stayed there because they just didn't. They didn't have the. The know how to get out of it. But you found it, which is why you're great at doing what you do. I went through all of my crap as well, so that I could be at this place in my life where I could help others so they don't have to do that. This is called. This is how we all evolve and how.

Hero's journey.

Yes. Yeah.

Powerful. Yeah. Okay. Because, you know, even yesterday I wrote a post about, like, the Iron man that I'm. I'm about to do in a month and a half. You know, there are special reasons about it. I have a scar here. That's a bottle that's been broken on my head at this very place that I'm about to do a triathlon. So. And I was reflecting on that pass, and sometimes I'm kind of ashamed of it. You know, I'm like, hey, I don't have anything to do with this guy. But, yeah, I need people like you to remember me that, you know, I went through dark times to come out with some valuable lessons and help others because most of the kids nowadays, they don't have clear mentors to educate them and to guide them in a healthy, challenging part of their life. You know, all they know is, well, if I take my example, was video games and partying back in the days, you know, so, yeah, thank you for reminding me that I have. One of my favorite topics is fear. And it happens that you wrote a book about it. So I'm glad to talk a bit more about fear. What are people's common fear in 2022, in the age of COVID in the age of Ukraine, in the age of Job? Uncertainty. What are the main fears out there and what are tips that you could tell people to get over these fears?

Well, the main fear is uncertainty. The unknown. We fear the unknown because we've been. Become accustomed to what we have seen, what we know and this. And I tell people, you know what, we developed that when we were born. And I say, just think about this. When you came out of the womb, you were. You were happy for nine months when you were inside your mother's womb and everything was safe and that was all. And that was the idea that you had. Then you come out into the world and you see all these weird, strange things and you start yelling, and you start yelling. And then if you don't adjust from that quite well, depending on how you grew up, you could carry that feeling of moving into an unknown place as this reaction with a fear. And so it stops you from doing anything unless you understand the cycle and that knowing that the fear is there. And I, I said, we're going to just translate. We're going to translate that. We're going to call it adrenaline. When you're feeling the fear, it's just adrenaline to get you to move and do something. I use that in my performance with my artists too, because they would feel that anxiety before a performance. I go, it's just adrenaline. And everything is energy. And that's what we're using to create our lives and everything.

Sure. Because I have a dog that I rescued from the Mexican streets and I was talking to my wife today and she physically tenses up unconsciously. You know, it's her body just reacting. When I get near her, for example, when I carry her, you know, her little paws, they go stiff, you know, and that's adrenaline kicking in and noradrenaline and all these molecules that I know of as a biohacker myself. So what tips do you have for people that get that rush? You know, because I still get nervous when I speak to crowds. When I finish that 10 days meditation retreat, for example, I was speaking in front of like 70 people after not speaking for 10 days and I could feel my, my heart pounding. So, yeah, embracing it. I mean, that's cool. But.

No, no, but you have something right there. You have a memory. Because. Okay, let's take you back to there. Because you know that when you, when you be. Because you hadn't done it for a while and then you got up there and you were really nervous beforehand, but two minutes after you started speaking, you started saying, oh, wait a minute, I'm okay now.

Did I? I mean, my heart was pounding a lot even when I was speaking. I was, I was feeling it. It was like, sometimes it's that hard that it's. I think, you know, I need practice because I don't get often these scenarios where I need to physically speak in front of people. And speaking in front of people online to me feels very natural as like a tech kid. And, but like, can. Is it like practice? Is it breathing? Like, what, what should I have?

No, no, it's just this. It's it's, it's. It's your neural pathways, Our neural pathways. We were changing. And so if we've developed a belief in that, oh, this is scary, and it's going to be bad, that's going to get worse because we are creating that with the energy. So then we just take our mindset and we shift it. We go, okay, yes, we're not going to ignore that we're feeling nervous. We're just going to translate it into something else. I'm going to say, oh, I am nervous. This is a little bit of anxiety. And that's, that's just energy. And I'm going to use it when I go out and do my performance. And when you do that, you may still feel that place, but you will see that once you start going, it just translates into something else. And then you start to calm down in your performance and your delivery.

Because it was weird. Like, I came up with, like, a script of my speech that I would give to these people at the retreat, and I was the only one doing that. And most people, what they did is they just went on the stage and most, like, most of them started with, wow, I'm nervous. You know, like, they started that way and did that help them? Should I have than that?

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Because right there, what you have done in that moment when you say, ah, I'm just acknowledging I'm being authentic. I'm. And people feel that when you're just being authentic. And then what it does is you give your audience the chance to be okay because they're nervous as well. When they're sitting there waiting for you, they don't even recognize this, but they have a little bit of nervousness going on. And so when you make that statement,

they relax a little bit, like, reflecting on that, you know, And I think that that's been at the main point of my retreat. I think I went too much with the brain and not enough with the heart. And that tends to be me, you know, like, very cerebral. And I. I still need to work that much, you know, even after two retreats. And that's why life is such. You can never compare yourself with somebody else because we're always in our own path. And yeah, I still need to do a lot of work in. In that area, funnily enough.

I'll tell you another thing. Yes, I'm sorry, the comparison thing. We're always comparing ourselves, and so that's. That that destroys us. And. And we've gotten to this age where we believed in the imposter. Syndrome. That's a, you know, like, oh, maybe the. It's not a real thing. It doesn't. It's just an excuse that we use to not move into who we're supposed to be. We wouldn't have an idea or vision of what we're supposed to do unless we were meant to move forward, fulfill it in some way. So, sure, yeah.

There's four minutes left to the podcast. Tell us a bit more about that resistance and that self sabotage. Like, often, you know, I've been in this game for 10 years in the entrepreneurial game, and I'm often asking myself in an alternate life, am I, like, more successful? Am I this trillionaire? What could I have done better? Like, am I sabotaging myself? How do people sabotage themselves? How do they put useless obstacle? Is it a lack of focus? Is it adhd? Like, can you tell us a bit more on that topic?

It could be all of them. It could be all of them. They could be all interacting because everybody has something a little bit different. And for adhd, for instance, because that's what I discovered I had later on in my life until I, I mean, I was, I said, how could this. I have not known this. But then you start to understand, oh, wait a minute. This impacted me because everything is a cognitive sense that we have of who we are. And if we think something's wrong, I'm not getting things right. You carry that around and it just grows. But then you start to change it. Every condition like that can be changed and became, and become valuable in a sense, you know, as we understand what's going on. So it's always that there's each person. This is what I want to understand. This is what I said in my program. I said, you are perfect when you cut, they come in. I don't care what you think about your life. I'm telling you it's perfect. And every experience that you had, everything that went wrong was right because it gave you wisdom, it gave you something to learn. You just have to package it in a way that you can make your life and you more valuable. And other people will get that as well. So there's. That's. That's what. And this journey, as you said, is always about moving through that next step, that next level, to get to who we are, meant to be.

Sure. I mean, yeah, we're all pretty much pure energy. Like, if you look at a child, like, so creative. And I think the thing is that most of us get in our own way with the current modern environment that has Gone totally out of hands, you know, and some people that shouldn't be in a mentoring position that, you know, kind of are putting us in an alternate path that we should have, shouldn't have gone in. And to me, self sabotage sometimes. Yeah, it's. It's like anxiety. Right. Like always this, this demon, hey, like, are you sure? Or, you know, this, this kind of survival mechanism, fight or flight, you know, hey, you shouldn't, you shouldn't go there. Don't go there because you'll make a fool out of yourself and you, you'll fall flat on your face. Everyone will know that you're a failure because, yeah, that business didn't work out while the reality is that billionaires just tried 100 times more. Not, not in exactly. That's effort. But they just deployed 100 experiments while you deployed one experiment and you gave up afterwards.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Kind of a fascinating topic. I want to give you the opportunity to close in in a, in a powerful way. There's like one minute left to the podcast if you have. Yeah.

I just want to say, everybody, we're in a world now that's changing rapidly and people would be experiencing something a little stranger, being a little fearful. And I'm saying that what's happening is, it's an opportunity for us to who we are. And so when we feel the uncertainty, the fear of what's going on in the world, what might happen, that's when we're supposed to go inside. That's when we're supposed to work on who we are and develop that. Because when you become stronger in your. In thinking, your mind and who you are, the outside conditions don't affect you as much. And so that's what we need to do now.

Powerful. Roger. Roger, thank you so much for your time.

Thank you, people.

Find out more about you.

Rogerburnley.com is my website. It's b u r n l dash y dot com and roger r o g E R and that all my links are there and they can find all of my programs.

All right, thank you, Roger.

Have a good day. Thank you.

You too.

Take care.

Sam.