William Pienias - President at FinFit Life

Welcome to another CEO Wisdom Podcast. We have William Pienas with us today. Pienas, should I say, president at FinLife down in Tampa. FinFit Life, that is. Very interesting company. He's been heading that company since 7 years now. Previously CEO at a couple of companies like the South Group and Strategic Progression. And FitFit, what is FitFit? I would describe it, yeah, as an insurance company, but with a twist, right? So you seem to reward your users for healthy physical activity. And had the CEO of Wellable yesterday in the corporate wellness space. So I guess I'm in the vibe. But yeah, Bill, welcome to the pod. Tell us a bit more about yourself and what you're up to.

Hi, Charles, and thank you very much for having me. It's a joy, and you nailed it. FinFitLife is a very smart and unique company that's designed around helping people become more financially fit and physically fit. Just a little bit about me. I grew up in the city of Chicago. My dad was a plumber. My mom was a clerical worker. I learned what an honest day's pay for an honest day's work was. I was a pretty good football player. I got a chance to play college football, and then I coached at the professional ranks and the high school ranks, and then in the college ranks. Uh, but I didn't know about finance. And when somebody actually started to teach me about finance, I was so blown away that I started to talk to my other coaches about it. And what I soon found out is that people needed a financial coach way more than a football coach. Uh, and it actually became part of my passion and, and, uh, and obviously became my occupation.

And aren't both related? Like, if you're fitter, if you do sports, technically you'll be richer because there's all kinds of good, uh, biochemicals that happen in your system while you do fitness. I personally have all my insights when I run, right? Like, I stack so many conversations on a daily basis, then I go out, I do my sports. That's where these insights synthesize themselves, and then I can make money with these insights. And vice versa, if, uh, I'm financially wealthy, I'll take care of my health. I personally have a no-budget rule for— or a limited budget rule for my health, like, meaning I spend tons on my health, right? Because if I can live longer, I can make more money, right?

That's right.

Like, everything is, uh, yeah. And I see billionaires missing out on that because a lot of billionaires, their strategies just make money, money, money and burn themselves out. And a lot of them die from heart attack because, uh, they're too stressed and they're, they're unhealthy, while they could be living 20, 30 years more and make— still make good money at that time. What do you think about that? Flurry of information.

It's funny you bring that up because the most interesting part about sports is the discipline of that. Typically, people that are active in sports just do better in life and in business because of the discipline, the teamwork, coachability, things of that sort. But then from the physical fitness side, it is very true. The more physically fit you are, the better you feel. The better you feel, the better you do. I know just like you, when I go work out, I have much more clarity of thought. I'm more focused on things that matter. And then to your point, many people spend all of their working career chasing their finances, but they give up their health. And then once they finally get to the end of their career, they spend all their money trying to get back their health.

And they're crippled.

Yes, it's significantly impaired. So we have a saying is you can have all the money in the world and no health, you have nothing. And vice versa, you can have all the health in the world and no money, you have no fun. And, uh, that's actually why FinFit Life was built, was designed around that piece. And I will tell you, more and more people are interested in that, especially with the COVID situation that happened 6 years ago. If you weren't interested in your health, you were never going to be interested in your health.

Yes. Um, another very important part, one of my, I don't know, top 15 thesis in wealth, is that you need to always take higher risks, right? Calculated risk, that is., but you also need to have a mechanism to let that stress out, right? Because more risk is equal to more cortisol in your blood, and that like decimates your body. So, I think the name of the game is take more risk, but have a mechanism to let all that stress out. In my case, it's definitely physical activity. You could say sauna, you could say walking with my dogs, right? But doing physical activity on a daily basis. In a stressful day, I have what, like 15+ conversations, and sometimes, I mean, one asshole might slip in and like 15 people, right? So I need like some kind of mechanism to let all the stress out, and that, that's physical activity, else it just accumulates in your body and that's a ticking time bomb.

Indeed, is it? I, I— my comment to that is, um, you need to be investing consistently, whether it be risky or not risky. You need to be investing and putting your money in, in working situations. Better and better and every day, um, and on a consistent basis. What I also found is that when you're in our— like, in our products and services, if you're more physically fit, we actually put more money into your accounts because lower expenses, we have an opportunity to lower premiums, and we have a cash value that allows it to grow on a tax-deferred basis. What's interesting is that when people want to get wealthy, there's two things that you need. You need money and you need time. Money needs to be invested over time, and over time it doubles because we call it winning the double game. It's interesting what you just said. Financial education is the most important piece, because if you don't know how money works, it's going to work for somebody else. And we know that the average person doesn't really know how money works, but every single person's interested in it. And, and I will say, my life calling has been around how can I educate people to live a longer, healthier, better life. And part of that is in financials where you got to teach them about how money works. And the other part is if I can incentivize them to do the right things physically, boy, I think I got a shot at making a difference in people's lives. And to your point, the more stress you have, the more you need to have a release of stress. And working out and physical activity, it sure hits the mark.

So FinFit itself, what do you guys actually do? How do you make money? Is it an insurance company? People pay you? Uh, and then when they have like a bad health event, you, you cover their asses. Like, what's the business model and what's special about it? Where does the financial and health education come in?

Yeah, you got it. We do 3 things. Um, the first one is we protect people with life insurance when they most need it. The second is we protect their assets so that they can actually become financially independent. And what I mean by protect assets, that means Um, financial security is in direct correlation to the certainty of your income, which means if you don't have certainty of your income, you can't have financial independence because you never know when your next paycheck's coming in. So we— that's what we do. We have products and services that are typically insurance-based that guarantee income for life. And then the third thing is we help people get out of debt. We have financial products that teach and, and serve, uh, proper budgeting and acceleration of debt. Now, encompassing all of those is the ecosystem and community that's built around healthy living. Most of our products are designed with healthy living in, so the more incentivization to become more healthy, the more money goes into accounts, the lower expenses, typically the higher income. And in essence, we actually kind of can pay people to become more healthy in a very real way.

I'm seeing the benefits now. It's pretty cool, I must admit. And I don't subscribe yet to a health insurance company on my end. I'm not sure if most health insurance companies offer that, but one, an Apple Watch, right? So that— I love it because such a low-hanging fruit, right? And you get the data on your end. I'm not sure how you get it, but that's smart because you can know like if they're healthy or not. Then I see you offer them like mindfulness apps with head space. And there's a breathing app on the Apple Watch, which is very simple, right? And it's all about UX and using things simply and like quick adaptations and habit stacking your life when it comes to health. Then I see Gallery, so health screenings, that's smart as well. And then you give them magazines even and an app and community app. So you're like trying to full stack the, the health, the low barrier to entry and you get the data on your end, right? So what's, what's that part of your program? Tell me a bit more.

Yeah, so that's a very interesting side of business. Um, you first— let me ask you the question: how do we get paid? We get paid when people actually buy the life insurance, that actually invest in our investment products, or they, they sign up to be, uh, in the debt elimination piece. That's how we make money. But what we've done is we've partnered with John Hancock and a company called Vitality. And let me just explain what Vitality is. Vitality is the second largest health data company in the world. And what they've done is they've found unique ways— they're an actuarial company— of how to incentivize healthy living that makes a real difference. And with that, any type of data that comes through, it goes to that actually company called Vitality. We don't see it. They don't share it with us because it's considered health data. It falls underneath HIPAA. But what we do see is the global trends and the national trends and what's happening. So, for example, when people are over 60, they think about our products and they say, ah, it's just for young people, ah, getting in shape is just for young people. But the reality is, if a 60-year-old person were just to walk twice a week for 30 minutes, it has the same impact on their body as if a 20-year-old went to the gym 6 days a week. It has a tremendous impact for longevity and, more importantly, for their general health. The second thing that we've done with this healthy living is, John Hancock has done a wonderful job of partnering with some very unique people. And I'm gonna mention two things. The Galleri test. The Galleri test is designed around identifying cancers. It's cancer screening. In the United States, we only screen for 5 cancers. That's prostate, breast, skin, lung, and colon cancer. That's it, those 5. There's well over 50 different cancers. So Galleri was actually a blood test that actually, when you pull your blood, when cancer goes into the cell, it kicks out the DNA, and that test picks up that DNA, and it can identify that there's cancer cells in your body, and it can give you a general location. What's interesting is that my partner— I have 2 other partners, a guy named Howard Scharfman and John Irvin, both wonderful men, very well known in the financial services industry. And John, who is very, very healthy, he's in his late 60s at the time, said, I don't need to take the test because I'm healthy. And they said, no, no, it's free. We want every one of our clients to take the test. He takes the test and it finds out that he has a high instance of cancer, neck and above, and it literally saved his life. He had one of the most aggressive throat cancers that you could have. And because they had early detection, you have a lot of options. They were able to, to eliminate it from his body, take out some of the lymph nodes. And ironically, we put a video together to say this can save people's lives. To date, we found out from John Hancock that 45 people were saved. Their lives were saved because of cancer early detection.

That's crazy. Um, and yeah, it's— cancer is a silent killer, right? You don't, uh, notice the symptoms until it it's too late, and most of the time has metastasized, right, which is so pervasive. Um, no, I love what, uh, what you guys are doing, um, but on the HIPAA side of things and data, right, can't an insurance company refuse a client because obviously they're like not healthy at all and they would be a gigantic loss for them?

Yeah, that's, that's right. So their, um, life insurance carriers have, um, in as an industry They have what they call underwriting. And ironically, companies have different types of tastes to get in the business. So some people want only healthy people. Some people want only sick people because they have a pricing model that's for that. We have a whole bunch of different products and services. Our main product that we sell and the main carrier that we work with is a company called John Hancock because of all the benefits that we've talked about. But there's 3 pervasive problems in the world, and the first one is, is obesity. The second one is diabetes, and the third one is what we'll call cognitive mental health. Um, and John Hancock has actually been very, very, um, forward-thinking regarding diabetes and obesity, and specifically diabetes. They have a thing, they have a program that enables people that have diabetes to get regular pricing. One of the things that's very interesting is life insurance carriers can deny you But there are carriers, and expensive. Um, so if I can, I'm going to education mode as coaching. In the life insurance world, you buy life insurance with two things. You buy it with your money and you buy it with your health. The healthier you are, the cheaper it is. And actually, if you're younger, you're always going to be healthier younger. Nobody gets older and gets healthier. They— it's— you might stay the same, but nobody gets healthier. It's, it's very interesting. Very rarely. But on the other side is that if you were to get and buy life insurance, you buy with your money and your health. If you're on your situation where you need life insurance and you don't have very good health, there are carriers that can provide that service. It's just not cheap, right?

Um, and what's special about your company in itself? You started it like 7 years, grown pretty fast, right? Like, what's been fueling it? Is it the really this brand, this branding about about like making your clients healthy? Is it your sales skills? You're a great salesman, obviously spent a lot of your careers in, in there. Um, yeah, what's special about it and why has it grown so fast?

Yeah, I'll call it the ecosystem. We call it the FinFit Life movement, and we have a join, own, share philosophy. You, you join our movement by being part of our organization and, and in the financial education. Uh, you, if you own the product and you share it with somebody, we can show you how you can actually generate some revenue and help other families. But here's the ecosystem that's with it. When people are on the same page of trying to become more healthy and becoming more wealthy, not in a selfish way, but in a community way to help other families, boy, now you have something special. And that's exactly what FinFitLife is all about. Um, I would say that the reason why our organization has done so well is because we've, we've encouraged people to join our, our movement, to own our products, and to share their story. Every single person that becomes a client of ours has some positive, uh, change in their health and positive change in their finances. And then when people start sharing it and actually generating revenue for themselves, boy, now you've got an extra income stream, and everybody could use a little extra income. That's what we believe is different, and, and I would say that ecosystem is a cultural piece. You know, it's very easy to say any organization has some type of ego. Our ego is not about selfish ego. Our ego is focused on how do we help change the community, and it's done by 3 ways. If I change myself by becoming more healthy and more financially astute, I can help other people and maybe even help my family, and then I can help my community and hopefully change the world. And that's exactly what we're focused on.

And you and I were talking about partnerships, right? So I'm guessing that was also a strong part of your growth. So advisors, referral partners, business owners, insurance professionals, wealth managers, etc., physicians, right? Um, tell me a bit more about that part of your business.

Yeah, that's a great question. We have found many people that are in the health business don't really know finance. Matter of fact, is the more you talk about it, I don't even know that I— my spouse or somebody else handles it. What we've said is, well, we want to partner with you, and if you know people that want to be more healthy, if you refer them in, we can show, share revenue. But more importantly is we're going to teach you financial basics in the, in the very fundamentals of how money works. And what's interesting is doctors are very interested in it because their solutions that they want to help people from medical education and healthier living, but then you have this financial piece Everybody is attracted to having more money. Everybody's attracted to being more healthy. And if they can be in a trustworthy relationship, that's really key. And one last thing, it's not just about doctors. We believe that anybody that's a good business person, whether they be in finance, whether they be in insurance, whether they be in health, whether it's, you know, medicine, medical, physical therapy, or even in the gyms, we believe that they have a mark. And if they can stay in their lane and help other people other— that's what great partnerships are all about.

And where do you want to take the company? Is it about running it another couple of years and selling it eventually? What's your desired outcome for that one?

Yeah, great question. We are building our organization to sell it. There's no doubt about it. And there's plenty of companies that have an appetite to buy a company like ours. But this will be the fourth, one of the four, one of four companies that I'll have sold and built over $100 million of sales. But there's my two business partners have done the same. And every time that we bought a company, it typically stayed intact because they're buying not just the assets, they're buying the people, they're buying the culture. And so we believe that if we sell it, there's going to be more revenue and more assets to help us expand faster. We could then use their assets in their marketplaces to grow faster and still keep the same structure. And so we're very excited about that. And that means that every person that's part of our organization has an— can earn an ownership stake in our company. And it's, it's documented, it's in writing. It's kind of unique in the, in the industry that we're in.

Interesting. And a guy like you will never retire, right? You just, uh, you love the game too much.

I— you're exactly right. I do love the game, and I might slow down a little bit, but I, I love the game. I love helping people. I love making a difference. And, and if I could potentially be an influence to positively affect people's lives—

capitalism is great. Um, yeah, because most people that retired, they lose, I believe, uh, brain capacity and ultimately lifespan. There's been lots of research on that, right?

There is. Interesting you bring this up. So let me mention something that is very— it's a new thing. It's called longevity. And John Hancock came up with this thing called the Longevity Preparedness Index. And what's interesting, I just recently took it. So I'm 56 and I feel like I'm in my 30s for all the reasons why we just mentioned. But the index made me take a look at my life. And there's, if I can, I'm just going to repeat these 8 areas. It's your daily activity. It's your home, your social connections, your health. Those are the first 4. And the second 4 is community, your care, your finance, and your life transition. And here's what I found. I have scored very high in connections. I have a great community. I love where we live. And here's some interesting facts. The most important number when you retire isn't necessarily your 401 or your retirement assets. It's your zip code because your zip code enables you to have a community. It enables you to have social connections, etc. That is one of the key areas to growing and living a longer life. And here's the other one. When people think about their health, positive physical, mental, and cognitive behaviors can add 10 to 15 years of your life. And those are the things that need to be discussed. And that's what our company is focused on, is how can we bring real smart solutions in those areas? So we're real excited about what we do.

Right. How did you crack community personally? So you have your family, probably have your buddies in which you do sports with, with? Like, what does that part of your life look like?

Yeah, it's one of my hot buttons for me, partner. I, um, Charles, I believe I grew up as a sports guy, so being a teammate really matters. And being a teammate means you're dependable. When people count on you, you're there. You're where you say you're going to be. Um, skilled— you have to be skilled to do things. And I find I bring most value to that. And then the last one is loyalty. Is that I believe that relationships matter. And the longer you're in a relationship, the better you get to know people. It doesn't mean that you judge them. It means that you walk with them. And I can assure you, if people say, what's Bill Pinus all about? It's about building relationships that matter that way. I have great communities around me. But what I'm most proud of is the family. I call my family Team Pinus. And, uh, so we function like a team. And, uh, I brought that same type of thought process to my business, um, and I bring that same type of thought process to the companies that I help on while I sit on their boards or the, the, the chairs that I sit in for my community.

You said you've built multiple hundreds of millions of dollar companies in the past decades. You must have had some pretty significant failure as well, or significant challenges along the way, right? Like, that's absolute— if you had massive success like you do. So how did you surmount these, um, these massive challenges you faced?

Yeah, I, if I were to tell you that it was always, you know, roses and great, I, I'd be lying to you. Um, I, I wouldn't believe you.

I've seen it too much.

It's really a lie. Uh, I have, I've, you know, I had to file bankruptcy. Uh, I got into, uh, medically supervised weight loss clinics. And was totally unprepared for what that entitled. And we made some very bad decisions, actually had to file bankruptcy and almost lost everything. I also, when I started in financial services, I didn't know what the heck I was doing and went into massive debt. And if it wasn't for the grace that somebody actually came and supported me, gave me a very large loan to get out of that, I don't know if— because I couldn't, I was not trustworthy with money because my credit score sucked. And, uh, man, it was terrible.

All founders' credit scores are terrible for the first 10 years at least.

That's right. I was no exception. That was no exception.

So the interesting thing, right, like, do you often look back at this part of your life and, yeah, how gritty you were? I mean, you're still gritty, right? But now it's like embodied. You don't really need to think about it.

The number one thing that people forget is hard work matters and your ability to have staying power on the day to stay focused and grind through a thought.

In the ring, take the punches.

That's exactly right. I have found that to be my— people have asked me, what's my super strength? It's my grittiness. I just, I don't quit. I stay with things all the way to the end. I like to finish strong and I'm an idea guy. So I test ideas. And my partners taught me this. We're going to test small. And once we get the test right, then we invest big into the things that have started to prove itself out.

What does a day in your life look like vs., I don't know, 10 or 20 years ago when you were struggling with this bankruptcy? Did your habits change for performance?

Yeah, they did. I found that my calendar was a disaster. I was trying to manage time and I was not managing my activities very well because I thought more was better, just keep stacking more stuff. And ironically, I came up with a very simple solution called win the day. And what that meant was I always have a to-do list and I have since refined it. But back then, I was very lucky to have a mentor talk about what is the most important thing that you need to do and find the 3 things to do that are the most important to do. And do those first. And I will tell you, I found when I can win the day, I had a good day, and that means I got the most important things done. And then the perfect week was to have 5 days that I won. Every day I did the 3 most important things. When I made that change, it changed everything in my life. Everything.

You know, we talked about Buckminster Fuller when we started. Who do you study nowadays? Uh, is Belichick, uh, part of that? Like, who are the greats that you study?

I am fascinated by the head football coach at Indiana. He is— I'm fascinated by him. But I will say the person, the people that I study, I study Tony Robbins. I study a guy named John Maxwell. John Maxwell is in the game. And I'll share one thing that he shared with me. I got a chance to have dinner with him one night. And he turned over to me and he said, hey, Bill, you've been pretty quiet. He says, What do you got to say? And I started laughing. I said, I have one question to you, John. You're in your 70s. Why are you still in the game? And he said, I can't do it. Well, this is what was interesting. I was expecting to say, hey, that's just the way I am. He said, I can't afford to retire. And I thought, what do you mean you can't afford? And he said it wasn't about money. He said, my whole life has been about building skills and adding value to people. And I've become pretty good at it. So, my amount of time that I put in is so valuable and I get a higher rate of return. It's my— and this is what changed my life is he said, "It's my giving back to God my time because I can make an impact in the world." And I thought, "Wow, that's powerful." Yeah, it's like why kill the golden goose, right?

And John Maxwell is a legend. I had various clients that worked with him directly, right? Is like, that's his, that's the, that's his why. So why would he kill it? And he accumulated such an audience, such a community. I heard he was like semi-retiring though, like I've heard that around the, the lines, but I can't blame him, right? But no, just a legend, right? Like these old school guys, you talk Tony Robbins, Jim Rohn, that's another one, that's a fucking legend. Yes, uh, Jim Rohn, that I believe was in Herbalife at some point, right? And he was— he's like always selling stuff and such a positive guy. At some points was worth, uh, I believe $20 million with like one of his supplements that he produced. Got sued by the FDA, was bankrupt right after that, had to rebuild themselves, right? And Tony Robbins, yeah, obviously legend. I went seeing one of his events, I think it was 2 years ago, uh I was sick as a dog, which also tells you that I'm pushing the machine like way too much sometimes, like maybe once a year. But I didn't like the events. I felt it was like, I don't know, some kind of rah-rah church, right? Like thousands and thousands of people in the stadium, some people crying. I was like, dude, why are you crying?

Yeah, yeah.

I was like in an optimization mindset. But a lot of people go in with like a struggling mindset, right? And I think that's, that's where Tony can really help. You know, it's like Some people are just totally lost in life and they absolutely need to be told what to do because they don't know what to do, right? So, and I guess that's sometimes some of the folks you're helping.

Yes. The thing I love about Tony Robbins is his clarity of thought on what he's all about, personal development and the business development pieces that he does. So, um, when I look at how he— I've never gone to any of his events, um, but I've read every one of his books. I've listened to a lot of his tapes. And I happen to be a very big fan of Jim Rohn. When Jim Rohn died, I would consider him a mentor. I never met him. I read every one of his books. And matter of fact, in the book that I'm currently writing, it's called Be the CEO of Your Life. I reference one of the things that I learned from Jim Rohn was the mastermind alliance and building the proper mentorships around you. I was crying at my kitchen table and my son walked in and said, Dad, What happened? Did somebody die? And I said, yeah, one of my mentors. And he said, who? And I said, Jim Rohn, because I just found out that he passed away. And he said, who's that guy? And so I had a chance to get to explain who Jim Rohn was because he had never known him. And, um, he— those men have made it an indelible mark in my life.

Is the guy in your ear, uh, and in your, in your bedroom, right? Like you were reading his books before sleeping and He was your support system when you were like a rep and starting the financial business, right? Like, he was like— because when you start, you don't have— you're not technical at all. You don't know shit, right? So the only thing you can rely on is cold, hard motivation, right? Started my career on my end, uh, making what, 200 cold calls a day? Um, that like really broke me, right? And the only thing I could rely on was like this motivational stuff, right? And today you and I probably take it for granted, but that's like our operating system. It's already there. It's already there in our muscle memory, right? But mindset is absolutely, absolutely crucial for someone starting out. And as a founder, there's no other ways. There's no other road. That's the easiest low-hanging fruit you need to, to go for when you're starting.

That's right. That's right. When your dreams are bigger than your fears, You're willing to do things that are uncomfortable. But the one thing that I found out that Jim Rohn actually spoke about is he said, reflection makes experience wisdom. And I will tell you, I took that to heart. What did I do right? What did I do wrong? Why did I lose that sale? Why did I make that sale? What worked in my presentations? What works about the product? What questions are they going to ask me? And I will say something. Of that, that wisdom only comes from reflection on experience. But if you don't have experience, you can't reflect on anything, you know?

Yeah, no, it's, it's very true. So I guess in your case was lots of journaling, right? Like back then, like journaling, self-reflection, talking with, uh, other entrepreneurs and friends. I love the mastermind concept of as well. Been trying to build mine since years now. I say trying, uh, obviously I have a huge outreach machine behind me, like I'm a GTM guy, but just retaining people in these masterminds is super hard. And just like putting very high caliber people together is a gigantic challenge, right? So I'm still— obviously I have a community of folks, uh, with me, like my co-founders are all very high levels, but Yeah, masterminds themselves, organizing them is very challenging. But, um, hey Bill, thanks for being on today. Where can, uh, people find out more about you?

Uh, you can find out, um, I'm on YouTube. Um, my last name is very unique. It's P-I-E-N as in Nancy I-A-S. I have plenty of videos on YouTube about what we do and how we do it. And, or you can go to finfitlife.com, and that's a little bit about our company. And Charles, thank you so much for having me. It's a very unique show. You're a wonderful man and a great interviewer. So thank you very much.

Thank you, Bill. So it's Bill and Charles Cormier for another season.