Yash Srivastava - Co-Founder at DACA War Trucks

Welcome to another Founder Wisdom podcast. We have Yash Srivastava with us today. He's a co-founder at Dakar War Trucks, so he's building these cool military trucks in India. I'm happy to have him on today. He's been, uh, at that company for 6 years, was a founder before that at Tinzy. So Yash, welcome to the podcast. Tell us a bit more about yourself and what you're up to.

Thank you, Charles. Thanks a lot for having me. Uh, so, uh, Dayka War Trucks, uh, has been there in business since 2019. We got incorporated in 2019, and we are primarily into design and development of, uh, vehicle platforms for critical tactical operations. At the moment, we are only designing and developing for the forces here in India because we are seeing a lot of diverse requirements by the forces because, as you know, that The geography of India is very diverse. We have deserts and we have mountainous terrains. We are surrounded by very challenging terrains all around us. So we are building vehicle platforms that can help the forces in carrying out operations in these kinds of terrains. And slowly, you know, we are also trying to move into autonomous vehicles, but it's too early at this stage. We are still forming a team for that. So yeah, that's pretty much about it.

Pretty interesting. Um, from a geopolitical standpoint, like, uh, India, we heard about their conflicts down south, right, with Kashmir. Is that like the challenging terrains you would be referring to? Because when I think of India, I'm like, yeah, India doesn't have much political or, uh, territory conflicts at the moment, but Can you place it on a map at— in the current, uh, military slash defense context of things where you're relevant?

Yeah, well, actually, uh, we have pretty sensitive, uh, border, uh, you know, border areas. Like you mentioned about Jammu and Kashmir, so we have an adversary there. Then the complete northeastern part of India, there also we have an adversary, and we have like we have conflicts going on, on, you know, the entire, pretty much the entire border area. So, and as far as the terrain is concerned, then starting from the western part of the country, you have deserts which are really tough, where they're very challenging. And then, you know, as you move towards the north, you have the mountainous areas, the J&K They are not as challenging as the northeastern part, the particularly the Ladakh region. And if you go further into the northeastern part, you know, the Tawang region, or there it's— those areas are completely undrivable, right? So, and yes, of course we have conflicts going on, we have sensitive, uh, uh, you know, kind of borders. So, um Although we are a very peaceful country, but yes, these two adversaries that we have on the borders, you know, there is a challenge in front of us.

And how did you get into War Trucks, right? What was your first company? How did you get into this?

Well, actually, it was pretty much accidentally we got into this because earlier, after completing our formal education, we got into motorsports. We were very fascinated by motorsports. Building off-roading vehicles and building vehicles for, you know, off-roading enthusiasts and motorsports enthusiasts here in India. So while we were carrying out some trials and demonstrations of our vehicles, we bumped into some, you know, exercises that was being conducted by the defense forces. And there, when we further interacted with them, we found out that, you know, they are also looking for solutions for some of the mobility challenges that they are facing. So, you know, we tried to, you know, we didn't pitch our indigenous product first. We tried to modify their own in-service vehicle platforms to help them meet those mobility challenges and help to conquer those challenges. And they were quite happy about it. So seeing the kind of response that we got from them, We then designed our own vehicle platforms and we introduced those platforms to them and they are being accepted. At the moment, we have one of our vehicle platforms which is known as Bharat. It is already there in the forces which is being utilized for various critical roles. And there are a couple of other vehicle platforms which are under trials and demonstration. Interesting.

And I see the mobility of these vehicles, right? Like, the— you need to check multiple boxes with those vehicles. Obviously, they cannot get stuck in the mud, or, uh, they need to have force when it comes to uphill. They also need to have speed, right? They need to be resistant to mines. Um, and then, like, when you're trying to build something that's like anti-mine, uh, it adds a lot of weight, right? So how do you address these challenges?

So, so, uh, initially we are not looking at anti-mine vehicles. So we are not building anti-mine vehicles right now. We are building light vehicle platforms, so light 4-wheel drive vehicle platforms and 6-wheel drive vehicle platforms for various roles. So, um, getting into armored vehicles or mine-resistant vehicles is also one of the things we are looking at in the near future. But right now, that's not a challenge in front of us. So we are particularly developing vehicles for, uh, you know, the— for the roles of assault and tactical logistics. So that is where, you know, there's a lot of gap that exists. We have a lot of companies that are building really wonderful, uh, MRAP vehicles and armored vehicles here in India. But, uh, as far as the mobility part is concerned, then there is still a lot of gap that we are seeing. So we are trying to pitch our vehicles there.

Interesting. And why not anti-mines? It's like an offensive vehicle, it's to launch like, uh, an ambush. But yeah, what if the enemy put some mines in there? Like, it just explodes, what about the tires? You, you're like almost rendered inefficient immediately if it hits an explosive, right?

Absolutely. No, no, absolutely, you're right about that. But yes, there are vehicles that are there in service with the Indian Army. So as I said, that we will be getting into those vehicles, but not, uh, in the near future. Uh, we are building a team, uh, you know, who can help us out in making some, uh, uh, you know, uh, MRAP vehicles and some— we are working on some, uh, patentable concepts where we can enhance the safety levels of the occupants of an MRAP vehicle. Because even, even though you have armor and you have a hull that is, uh, that can, you know, take the impact of a mine, still the kind of acceleration that the, uh, you know, occupants go through who are sitting inside a vehicle, that's, uh, pretty fatal. So, uh, you know, we have been working on a couple of patentable technologies which can help reduce, uh, the fatality inside a mine-protected vehicle. Uh, but the thing is that you don't need a mine-resistant vehicle, um, in, uh, in every tactical role. In some roles you need speed, because in some roles you need shoot-and-scoot capability. And, uh, you are, uh, suppose, uh, for example, if we are— if I'm talking about a vehicle that is, uh, being utilized for towing light, light field guns, so there we are not looking for mines, uh, we— I mean, we are not looking for armor protection. We are looking for speed, we are looking for mobility aspects, we are looking for, you know, enough protection to the subsystems of the vehicle, the packaging of the vehicle. So those are the things that we are focused on. Similarly, if you're looking for vehicles for special forces, then, you know, they are the ones who are not at all looking at armor-protected vehicles. They want speed, they want low silhouette, so that, you know, they can, uh, you know, drive their vehicles without being, uh, you know, detected and all. So, uh, uh, right now our vehicle platforms are catering to those requirements.

And tell me about the funding of all of this, because building prototypes, vehicles is extremely costly, probably less in India, right? But how do you fund all of these operations, and what's your, uh, commercialization, AKA taking these vehicles to the market strategy?

So we are not a very well-funded startup. We took some seed stage funding initially, and after that we were lucky enough to find traction at a very early stage. So we are being funded by our revenues. Our products are being procured. So we are funding our research and development through that. And then as far as— there's just one more question I didn't— yes.

Yeah, how do you get all of this funded? Like, do you have investors? And how will you—

we had one investor at the seed stage, and after that, we had some really generous technology partners like CAD Defense and Allison Transmission. So they have been sponsoring some of our vehicle development programs. So the primary expense of, you know, the drivetrain part that has been taken care of by them. So it really reduces a lot of burden. And after that, yes, we had investors earlier. And since we are in the revenue stage also, we are generating some revenue. So we are able to meet the expenses.

Okay. This year, what's your top strategy? Are you like focused on one vehicle, specifically?

So yes, there are two vehicle platforms that we are focused on at the moment. One is a four-wheel drive light vehicle platform, and one is a six-wheel drive, you know, vehicle platform. So we are pitching these vehicle platforms for a few critical roles where we are seeing a gap, where we see that there is no player who has introduced a, you know, competent vehicle. So we'll be focusing in the next 1 or 2 years, we'll be focused on these 2 vehicle platforms. And after that, by the end of next year, we are also planning to launch tactical logistics vehicle platforms as well.

What's the usefulness of a 6-wheeler?

So the 6-wheel drive vehicle platform First of all, the mobility part in an uneven and intense cross-country terrain, you find that a 6-wheel drive vehicle platform is highly mobile. Secondly, the kind of loading area that it offers, the kind of payload area that it offers is extremely useful. If I'm talking about a formation which is involved in, uh, you know, artillery or in air defense, then they have huge equipment that they have to transport. At the same time, they have, uh, you know, a crew of 6-7 people that they have to, uh, carry. So it is very difficult for a light 4-wheel drive vehicle to carry those many people and that much payload. So the only option that you have is you take a huge truck. But the problem with the truck is that, uh, it is very, uh, sometimes, at times, uh, it is difficult to transport these trucks through C-17s or through C-130s. So if you have a 6x6 vehicle which is low and it offers that kind of an area where you can stack up all your battle loads and you can, uh, you know, have all your men and you can para-drop it also, you can carry it in C-17s and the— in cargo aircraft, then I think it's a— it's the kind of solution that the forces are looking for.

What's been challenging about that business so far? You've been like 7 years at it. Like, what, uh, what challenges have you faced?

Uh, so the challenge, primarily the challenge is, uh, uh, that, you know, since we are dealing directly with the government, so, uh, sometimes the processes are a little slow, so we have to be patient. And there are a lot of demonstrations that happen before a product gets accepted. So you have to go through a lot of trials and you have to prove the capability of your product. So you have to bear all the expenses till that point. And then you can't afford to really make mistakes. You know, you can't be making something which eventually doesn't, you know, sell or doesn't make it. So then, you know, either you have very deep pockets, that is not the case with us. So you have to be very, you know, choosy in terms of what you will be building. And, you know, how you'll be, you know, going through all the trials and all the acceptance phases that, you know, that are required.

Right. How do you accelerate the pipeline with the Indian government? How do you facilitate adoption of your products?

So the thing is that as we are, you know, getting more and more experienced in terms of supplying equipment to the Army, So, you know, the kind of, you know, the chances of getting bigger orders increases. So if you are, if you can be trusted with a ticket size of say a few hundred thousand dollars, then it becomes easier for you to grab bigger orders. And then at the same time, the kind of data platforms that we are building, that is something that is an urgent requirement of the Army or the other defense forces. So we are very hopeful that we are very positive that, you know, we'll be able to grab some good orders for our product. And, uh, yeah.

And your co-founder, how did you pick him? Because both of you are engineers, right? Like, why are you two a good combo?

Yeah, so, uh, we are like 3 co-founders at the moment. Uh, 2 of us, we graduated together from, uh, you know, we had like 17 years we have been together. We did our formal education together. So we are basically automotive engineers. One of our co-founders, he is into finance. So he is taking care of all the money business and all the allocations of all the funds and funds and all. We are still looking for co-founders because as I mentioned that we also want to expand into autonomous vehicles, unmanned ground vehicles. So I think by, you know, by in a couple of years, in 1 or 2 years, we'll be having another co-founder in the team who will be taking care of the autonomous vehicle side.

Do you feel that India invests enough in its defense space? Do you feel they would be ready for a full-on scale invasion if that happens?

Yeah, I think a lot of investment is happening, and particularly we are one of the leading in drones and anti-drone their own systems. So I think a lot of exports is happening out of India. And in terms of, you know, critical technologies, you know, you talk about aerospace technology, and we have, you know, a lot of companies making some, you know, satellites which can be used for, you know, for, you know, for defense applications. So a lot of investment is happening, and there's a lot of excitement in the startup community as well to build products in India for the world. So I think I'm very satisfied as a founder. I'm very satisfied by the kind of help and support that I'm getting from the government.

Right. And you feel, well, most companies in India are building drones. You're probably one of the only one building war trucks, right? Like there's not so much competition.

No, there is competition. I mean, The first line of competition is, of course, the big players. We have the Tatas and the Mahindras, but we don't find ourselves directly in competition with them. They have been in the business since 50 or 100 years. We are identifying gaps where they are not paying attention. So we are pitching our products in those areas. But there are some new players also that have come up. There are some good companies that are making ATVs, some companies who are making some logistics vehicle platform. But in this category, you know, the kind of vehicles we are building, I think there is no— the competition is not very close to us. So there are vehicle manufacturing companies, but you know, nobody's making the kind of vehicles that we are making.

Interesting. Yeah. And what does your day-to-day look like? What time do you get up? Then do you just step in the manufacturing plant? Do you have— tell me about your day-to-day.

So, uh, the day starts not very early. So we, uh, I normally start my day at around 10 in the morning, and then, uh, it's like 8:45, uh, like 9, 9 PM here in India. So normally 9:30 to 10 PM till night we work. And of course, if there are, uh, you know, urgent deliverables, if there are orders that are going out, they are being delivered, then of course we stay up late as well. But normally day starts at around 9 or 10, 9:30 or 10, not before that.

What happens after that? Like, what's, uh, walk me through the motion of a day-to-day. You step in the office, you spend most of your time in R&D, you spend your time, uh, talking to Indian officials to accelerate the pipeline. Give me like an exact, uh, day-to-day.

So, um, Normally R&D and, you know, the orders that we are shipping out, they are happening in parallel. So one of the team is working on the R&D. It's normally just taking an overview of the orders that are being shipped out, whether they are, you know, things are going on fine, whether they are, we are on time or not. And then, you know, most of the time we spend on the R&D because there a lot of things have to be taken care of and we are just two co-founders. So, you know, all the aspects related to the prototype development, every day, almost every day we are conducting trials of the vehicles. So, you know, going out on drives, you know, checking various parameters and collecting data and then improving upon those parameters. And, you know, that consumes most of the day. And there's a parallel team which is working on products that are already, you know, being supplied to the app.

How do you collect all of that data, and do you feel it is still intuition at the end of the day, like your brain? It has collected so much data that your gut just knows exactly what is the problem and how to improve the, the problem? What's the process with that?

Yeah, earlier it used to be like that because, as you know, there are very limited resources when we started. So we didn't know, we never used to have the kind of sensors, the load, you know. Of course, if you have to look at your suspensions, then there are load sensors, and there are various kind of sensors that you put on your vehicle and you can collect data. So earlier it used to be mainly intuition or you used to make videos while the vehicle is being driven. Then someone used to make video and then we used to see the kind of way the wheel travel or when we are accelerating the kind of pitch and the kind of yaw, if there's any yaw and also we used to work like that. Now we are slowly having sensors where we can get some analysis. We can get a graph like what has been the load on each wheel and whether, you know, what has been the, you know, kind of behavior of the roll axis or things like that. We have some sensor inputs, so it is easier now. Earlier it used to be mainly intuitions and, you know, experience and, you know, driving in the vehicle and, you know, trying to feel what is happening., you know, on the ground.

Super interesting. Well, thanks for coming on, uh, today, Yash. Where can, uh, people find out more about you?

So, uh, we have a website, it's, uh, dekaworkrugs.com, and then they can visit my LinkedIn page and, you know, just message me if you're very curious to know about us. And, uh, my email IDs are there on the website, so if you want to know more about what we are doing, where we are headed And if you want to be a part of us as well, please feel free to drop us a message and, you know, I'll get back to you.

That was Yash and Charles Cormier for another