#280 M&A Buying and Selling A Business w Jennifer Fondrevay Entrepreneurship Elevated Podcast

You know how the show starts. We always start off by strapping something on, and Kelsey and Jeremy work independently, but sometimes it comes together collectively, and this is not one of those times. Strap on your random turkey. We're about to discuss mergers and acquisitions of your business. You're about to hear that and so much more on today's episode of Entrepreneurs Elevated. That's right. We got— doesn't Jeremy always say, hey everyone, turn off your, your cell phone so it doesn't ring? What rings? Jay Sloan's cell phone. He's all out of sorts today. You, my friends, you're listening to Entrepreneurship Elevated. My name is Mike Michalowicz. I'm an author on a mission, a mission to eradicate entrepreneurial poverty. The real struggles entrepreneurs have, we fix that on the show. And I'm joined in studio by a great friend of mine, Kelsey Ayers.

Hello, friend. Thank you for listening to us. If you feel so inclined, please leave us a comment or rating wherever you're listening.

Also in the studio is Jay Cablon. Hello, hello. How are you? How's your trip in today, Jacob Loeb?

Oh, there's tons of traffic.

Yeah?

Yeah, there always is. I mean, it's a long commute you have.

Yeah, but there was construction before I got to the last leg, and it was just like crazy backed up.

We got a notice that we're— so we're in the town of Boonton. They said that they're going to have selected power outage during the day to do some repairs, which I just— we're not one of the buildings affected, but I thought it was peculiar that you got to fix the power in the middle of a work week. On like a Wednesday morning? It's kind of weird. Why not do it overnight, or why not wait until the weekend? I don't know.

True point.

True point, right?

Yeah.

How you doing, Kels?

I'm awesome, thanks for asking. How are you doing?

I got a little cold. Oh yeah, I do have a new aspiration though, and it's making drinks. And, uh, I wouldn't call myself a mixologist. You were kind enough to say mixologist. I have not earned that title. I can make a couple drinks really well.— but I don't understand the science. You know, a person that can play a song or two on their guitar is not a musician or guitarist. I can belt out a few songs on my guitar, but I am not a musician. Someone that understands the kind of the theory behind it and can create new is how I qualify them as a musician, and I believe a mixologist should be qualified the same way. Someone that says, I want a sweet, slightly sweet drink that has a tequila base and blah blah blah, and they can make this fabulous drink, that's someone that's a mixologist.

Yeah, do you know there's a bar in the city that does that? You don't order your drink, you tell them what kinds of things you like, and then they make a drink for you.

They serve you a beer every time. Yeah. I like a hint of rose, here you go, Bud Light.

Yeah, if you study taste theory, you'll get better at that, because it's about the combinations that go well together.

What's it called, taste theory?

Yeah, it's just like with cooking, what flavors complement each other, You know, like you can, uh, you can take a vodka and soak herbs in it and put some other stuff in it, and then within a week or two you get the— you pull those flavors out.

Yeah, I bet you make some wicked drinks. Do you make drinks? Because you're—

yeah, I mean, I cut back. I don't really drink that much anymore.

Like, I cut back.

Okay.

I mean, I just— I'll have a beer occasionally. I enjoy beer. Okay. But yeah, I— but I couldn't—

yeah, because you're a trained chef, you know how all these ingredients work. I think one of the coolest things we did— we had that retreat— was that dinner night where Jeremy told us how to cook, and it was just interesting how you were explaining different— how different foods work, and you really got to— textures. Yeah, it really changed the experience. And then we lost all power and we ate in the dark. In the dark, and it was the best.

Yeah, it was another added sensory experience.

You rolled with it in such a great way. We ended up setting up a fire outside, set up a country table. We're in the middle of a farm eating outside. It was actually one of the best dinners of my life. It was cool. It was— I just felt bad for, uh, Liz.

She was so excited to eat her food and then she couldn't, we couldn't even cook it.

Yeah, some stuff couldn't be cooked.

Yeah. And then the guy joined in.

Oh yeah, the guy owned the farm. That weirdo, that weirdo showed up. He's like lurking over us. Hey, Kelsey, do we have any shoutouts or anything?

We sure do. This one comes from Sarah Gep. She writes, I'm meeting with a banker in Norman, Oklahoma to set up my 5 accounts and she knew what I meant when I mentioned Profit First. Let's do this. That's pretty awesome.

That's super awesome. The word is getting out. Yeah. Our estimate, At the end of 2019, so this is broadcasting right around then, we estimate over 200,000 businesses have implemented, successfully implemented Profit First. The book has been in circulation and now we're approaching I think 300 to 350 versions of the book, different languages, English, Audible, so forth. Two versions, there's a original and revised and expanded, so combined over 300,000 copies in circulation. So it's super cool to hear the momentum that's going on.

Yeah, I love that.

And I also believe, someone asked me like, oh Mike, how do you feel about it. I feel proud, honored, humbled, excited. But I also had this realization, and you probably heard me talk about it, but I don't think that Prop First is really me alone anymore. It is a— I have a responsibility of a stewardship. I, I'm responsible to care for it, but it's not me anymore. It used to be me like staying on the street corner yelling it out. It's not about me anymore. It's, it's the people that have taken possession of it and are carrying it forward that really kind of own the movement, if you will. So that's— it's just super exciting.

Have they helped it evolve?

No, they destroyed the whole freaking brand. It's been horrible, Jeremy.

No, I mean like, like adding like their own flavors.

Exactly, that's what people do. Yeah, it's— you put out the base drink, right, and then people add the aromatic flavors. So Cindy Thomason, she's speaking to the e-commerce community about it. There's a guy, John Briggs, who's writing it for Microgym. He's writing a derivative book and spreading the word. There's people that have— in the CBD market, uh, there is Candy Baker who hasn't written a book on it, but she's owned this concept and she's starting to speak to CBD. And what's the other?

THC?

Is that the other part? There's that whole market out there. She's speaking to that community.

I just love you pretending you don't know.

I know. I'm like, you know, I have some right on me right now. Um, and she's out there spreading the word, uh, and serving that community and modifying the Profit First system The marijuana market is very cash-based right now because it's a legal federal— it's an illegal federal product, but in a regional or state level, in some places it is legal. And so there's some special things you have to navigate around finances. And so you have to change Profit First to accommodate that. And so these people have done that, and it's super cool. Brand new book is starting to get some momentum too. I mean, internally, like, I just did my first speech. I did my first keynote on Fix This Next. It was horrible, but it's kind of horrible by design. I don't go in prepared and rehearsed. There's a group in Somerset County, New Jersey that has invited me for every single book. It started as a tradition with Toilet Paper Entrepreneur. Every time I write a book, they invite me to speak. Um, the deal is I'll do it for free, but I ask for their critical feedback and they give me feedback and I start honing in on the presentation. And I think Fix This Next is going to be the biggest concept to come out of our offices. I think even bigger, I can't believe I'm saying this, but bigger than Profit First. So I'm super excited.

I'm super excited too.

I can hear it in your energy. Who's our— Super excited, welcome to NPR. Our corporate partner is Nextiva.

You're like Sweaty Ball. I love Sweaty Ball.

You actually looked like her when you said that. Oh my God, I hope everybody gets that reference, because if they don't, it is absolutely horrible. But you actually looked like, who's the actress?

Anna Gasteyer or Molly Shannon?

Molly Shannon. You looked like Molly Shannon because how she had a scar bar farm at the time, I think.

They're like sweater vests. Oh, I wish I had a sweater.

I'll view a sweater vest. Such a good episode of Saturday Night Live. Alec Baldwin, I think, was the— yeah. So Nextiva is a voice over IP phone system and now probably the most cutting-edge, uh, CRM. We'll give you more details on them after this episode's complete. Um, is there anything else we have to cover before we get into the meat and potatoes today? That's it. Okay. Her name— now remember, my friends, we're gonna be talking about mergers and acquisitions. This is key. If you aspire to grow a business, you should position for sale even if you don't want to sell. But if you position for sale, it becomes very designed to run on automatic and it becomes a business that isn't dependent upon you. So even though you may not intend to sell or even acquire another business, these businesses are usually the most effectively run when they're in that position. But it's not always an easy journey. Jennifer Foundervay is the founder of Day One Ready. It's an M&A deal consultancy that advises forward-thinking business leaders, owners and entrepreneurs, and C-suite executives on how to prepare for the human capital changes of M&A, with mergers and acquisitions. Her brand-spanking new book, you've got to get this, it's called Now What? It's a survivor's guide for thriving through acquisition. Guides executives and entrepreneurs and middle managers through the transition brought by M&A to find the opportunities in change and disruption. With no further ado, I want to welcome to our show Jennifer Fonderbay. Thank you.

Welcome. Thank you. You know, you were making me thirsty with all the talk about drinks. Are you a drinker? I am. Who is your favorite?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I took a break for about a year for no reason, but just did. What, what's your favorite drink?

I'm embarrassed to say it's a Greyhound.

Oh, I'm embarrassed to say I don't know what that is, and I'm a mixologist.

You got to get that into your repertoire.

Grapefruit juice and vodka.

Oh, I didn't know that had a name.

Yep.

That— no, by the way, the knowledge of your bartender, if he knows how to make a Greyhound, if you put salt on the rim, yep, and add some, uh, bitters, it becomes a, uh, salty dog. It's a true story. And I wonder if that's based on Greyhound because that's a dog.

Probably.

Probably salty dog. So, um, Worst M&A ever. You've experienced many. Give us some disaster stories.

I always like to start with the disaster. It's the Poseidon Adventure.

Yeah.

The, uh, probably the first one. It's what spawned, uh, the book that I wrote. Uh, I worked at a company, so I was the head, uh, global head of B2B marketing for a company called Navtech, Navigation Technologies, digital map-making company. And we were acquired by Nokia. In 2008, uh, which at the time we were acquired for $8.8 billion. That was a lot of money. Now that seems like— now it seems like chump change because you've had deals that are over $100 billion. Uh, and I wouldn't, I wouldn't necessarily call it a disaster, though you'd be hard-pressed to find Nokia phones, uh, now. Uh, and back in 2008 they were still the market leader. But I'd say it was the toughest one because it was the first one I experienced. And that's what compelled me to write the book. A lot of it was just figuring out the strategy as we went along. And it had such enormous potential. I think that was the toughest part because Nokia with phones had been connecting people through phones and I thought it was brilliant that they wanted to acquire our company which was mapping location-based solutions. And yet because of, I would say, not having really thought through the strategy and coming to it, I think, with some arrogance and at the same time Apple launching the iPhone, it was kind of a perfect storm. And it's really what catapulted my thinking around people just need to have more transparency about what to expect if you're a middle manager and how to survive and navigate through it.. And then equally, because I was an executive in all 3 multibillion-dollar M&As that I experienced, how executives could be better at managing their teams and anticipating some of the people challenges. So, it was a disaster because now Nokia got acquired by Microsoft. That didn't go well. I think it will come alive again. But let's just say the acquisition didn't play out as it was intended to.

What do you think are the factors for a failed acquisition?

The typical ones? Well, in the research that I did for the, the book, because I didn't want to just be my perspective, one, I think oftentimes the price that's paid sets unrealistic expectations and the time frame, right? Trying to hit a certain level of profit by year one, particularly when you're in the multi-billion dollar, level, it's damn near impossible. And yet that's the expectation from Wall Street. And so one, overpaying or not, uh, at least, uh, anticipating the timeframe that's gonna take. But the other big ones, and that's what I focus on, are the, the people challenges, right? Everything from cultural fit to integration complexity, uh, to synergies that aren't realized. And at the core of all of those challenges are are people. And, you know, the reality is that when two companies or private equity is acquiring, the focus is on getting the deal done, understandably so. But my, my comment always is, in that rabid focus to get the deal done, you're not thinking about what it's going to take to execute it, and that's the people, and that's where the challenges come into play.

So I sold my company. I was a small business. We were on a run for $7 million. We were 2 and a half years in. We had real revenue Q2 of over $3 million, and we were acquired by Robert Half International. So here comes rolling in this big Fortune 500. We are a tiny droplet type of a business, right, compared to the revenue they're doing. And the acquisition was a disaster. They went in, and it was, uh, to your point, arrogance, um, I think on their side, saying we know what we're doing. Um, but here's the interesting thing. Robert Half, the division that acquired us, was called Protivity. They're a risk management, uh, firm. They analyze risk. What happened was they acquired my forensics business, and we were anticipating about $7 million of revenue for that remainder of the year cumulative. They acquire us, and we had all these conflicts of interest. All these cases we were working on, we couldn't do anymore because Robert Half, the overall company, had already worked with either defendant side or some other, um, business that was involved in a lawsuit. So we were conflicted out. We were not allowed to serve the cases. Our revenue dropped from an anticipated $7 million down to under $700,000 first year. Wow.

People were pissed.

Oh yeah, the acquiring, uh, partner who facilitated it was screaming. Everybody screamed at me like, what is going on here? And, uh, you know, I think a big part to blame is the arrogance of the acquirer And they didn't do their due diligence yet. They're a risk management firm. Yep. It's unbelievable. So what can you advise first an acquirer, particularly a small business, because these are small business listeners? What can you advise our acquirers, businesses that want to purchase another business, how to go in smartly and not oversee such obvious things like that?

Well, I actually— the key thing I advise is to do a pre-mortem. I never heard of that. Yeah. And it actually— I love it. Yeah. Rather than— and exactly, right? Postmortem, what happens obviously is after the patient dies, you walk through all the reasons why that happened. So a pre-mortem is make the decision. And this is— I particularly work with executives. So getting alignment there, but then doing the pre-mortem. So make the decision. Okay, we've done the deal. Now, what are all the ways it could go wrong? And you, you are— ego is removed from the situation and you look at it almost like a SWOT analysis. What could our competitors do that would undermine the success of this deal? What happens if we lost this type of talent? It's repeatedly asking what if, what if, what if. And traditionally that doesn't happen because the fixation is getting the deal done, keeping it tight-lipped, not making sure that it doesn't get out. So you are trying to protect the deal from getting out there, but at the same time, you're not asking those what-if questions. And it sounds so simple, but it wasn't done. And as you were describing what happened, to me, that's a perfect example of had they done the pre-mortem with you, you could have anticipated, well, we can't do that revenue, that's going to be a conflict of— we can't do that project because that's going to be a conflict. So it's really, it's a big focus that I have is just that thoughtful pre-planning and asking those what-if scenarios. From both external challenges to internal challenges.

Jeffrey said be tight-lipped.

What's the advantage or the reason behind that? Well, because oftentimes your competitor, if they, if they get wind that a deal is in motion, there's a lot of things that they know can play out. Potentially they'll, they'll, they'll steal your talent because, you know, The traditional trajectory after an M&A deal happens, it sounds like you've experienced it. Morale tends to plateau because people are trying to figure out what's going on. You have the dynamic of people feeling blindsided if they weren't involved. And so, there's an opportunity for outside competitors to take advantage of that, either by going after your clients or stealing your talent. And so, Beyond just the legal and compliance regulation reasons for keeping things tight-lipped, it's equally the confidentiality, confidentiality around it is because you want to be able to preserve both your clients and your talent.

Could people try to target your customers too during that rocky transition? Your competitor tries to— Absolutely.

—start stealing your customer base? Absolutely. So it's all, all things combined. And to, to your point, that'll equally negatively impact the forecasting. So you want to try and, and preserve that. But I think there are ways to get around that, to make sure you're asking the questions, to, to play out what the scenarios could be that could undermine the success of the deal.

Give me the seller side. Say I'm a small business, a big company, or maybe a similar size company is looking to acquire me. How do I best prepare for this?

Well, I think, and particularly for entrepreneurs, and I know you focus on this a lot, you're thinking about your legacy. And oftentimes with entrepreneurs, you've put your blood, sweat, and tears into building up this company. And so, you want to be smart about who you get in bed with. And I say that because I say that when you look at M&A, you have to look at it like a marriage.. And you want an ideal union. So you really want to be smart about who you're partnering with. You can't love at first sight. Those unions don't typically last that long. So you want to really know who you're getting in bed with and be smart about their values and your values. And, and there's a lot of focus on culture, but beyond that, it's just making sure that this is— you come Again, best marriages you've seen, typically, you come to that union with respect for the other side and you're looking to see how you can build something better together. So you mentioned before the issue of arrogance, can't come to this with arrogance, but that's both sides. And typically, that's where I see the greatest conflict happens. One side always comes with more arrogance than the other, and that tends to lead to failure. Because you're not respecting either what you've acquired, or if you're the seller, you're not feeling respected. And that, that can really undermine the long-term value of the deal.

Admittedly, when we sold our company, I walked in with arrogance because I quote-unquote knew how to do this business, and the acquirer had no idea. They were actually trying to acquire us to plug us in. And so I felt anytime that they offered a new approach, new consideration, I throw my hands up in the air and say, "You guys are idiots. This is the way it needs to be done." So I think there was arrogance on both sides. So I want to talk about the people because this is such an important part. How do you transition your people who were used to working for the small, fun-loving company and now they're getting acquired into this much bigger entity? It's such a cultural shift.

How do you navigate that? For me, the number one thing and It's overused, but it's absolutely the truth. It is communication. But I think what happens is people say, well, you've just got to communicate. And that goes beyond just one town hall meeting or memos or emails that you send out to your workforce. It's communicating with transparency and authenticity. And I know that sounds trite and clichéd, but so often there's this sense that, well, if we tell everybody, everything, they're going to walk. And you'd be surprised when people are treated with respect, particularly if they've helped you build this company, you want to be upfront about the vision, what, what the plan is, what you're working towards, how you believe this is an amazing opportunity for you as a company, and the role that they can play in helping you to get there. And I think oftentimes that, that part's eclipsed. There's a focus on, hey, nothing's changed. You'll still keep your same compensation and vacation days. But people want to know, where are you going? How is this going to impact the overall role that I play beyond just how is this going to change the job that I have today? And I think that communicating that vision and helping people understand where they're going and how they're playing a key critical role is often overlooked.

Jennifer, you wrote an article in the HBR, the Harvard Business Review, about that dynamic is the us versus them, this arrogance, not just of the owners or the leadership team, but even maybe the employees themselves. Is there any other tips you have about managing that us versus them dynamic?

[Speaker:SANDY_WAGGETT] Well, it's interesting because that was one of the surprises that came out as I was interviewing executives for the book was most discussion or articles talk about our company versus their company. You've got two companies coming together. But what I saw, uh, as I was talking to executives and entrepreneurs was that there is equally the top-line executive leadership versus frontline. The moment the deal's announced, that dynamic can happen because suddenly executives who knew about the deal, who oftentimes have been involved in it for months behind closed doors, suddenly they announce it. They've been living with it for a while, but now you've got your frontline leaders who are feeling blindsided and oftentimes betrayed, which isn't the intent, right? Executives are thinking everyone's going to be excited, but your frontline leaders are thinking, well, wait a minute. I had no idea this was happening. I've not been involved. I don't think this is a good idea. And that dynamic can really undermine the success. And then the other is the who stays versus who goes. And that one, what I thought was fascinating is Both sides think the other side makes off better. So the ones who stay think the ones who get out of there are getting off with a better deal because typically at the beginning, right, they're playing multiple roles. They're still trying to figure out what the strategy is and how to execute against it. And the people who leave think the ones who got to stay got the better end of the deal because unfortunately, oftentimes during M&A, there's layoffs. And so the people who leave are wondering, well, why did I have to go and they get to stay. So it's all of those dynamics that can really undermine the success of the deal. And I— to me, a big part of that article was revealing that there's not just our company versus their company, but there are these other dynamics at play that you have to be mindful of.

We are speaking with Jennifer Fonderveil. She's the author of Now What? A Survivor's Guide for Thriving Through Mergers and Acquisitions. It's on Amazon right now. Get it. I'm curious, Jennifer, about your transition into this because your background, I believe, was in advertising and marketing. Why would you even get into this whole space of M&A?

I ask myself that every day because honestly, I was taking my Greyhound. Well, I would have to confess, I've been in corporate 25 years, my entire career. But I think two things. One, In advertising, I had so many clients that went through a merger and acquisition. I worked on Kraft, I worked on Warner Lambert, I worked on Nestlé, I worked on Gerber, I worked on Coors. All of those who went through massive mergers and acquisitions with other companies, and, and rarely did they go well. And it was always— it tended to happen right when we were in the middle of trying to launch a campaign. And then the last 10 years of my career, I was, uh, in marketing at 3 different Fortune 500 company. So I experienced 3 separate multi-billion-dollar acquisitions. And by the third one, I thought, dear God, there's got to be a better way to do this. There has to be a way where people can maintain faith in their skills, know the role that they play, and keep their dignity. And that's really— I would have to confess, it was that thought First, I just wanted to write the book. But as I— frankly, as I was interviewing entrepreneurs, they would consistently say, "What are you doing besides the book?" And I'd say, "Well, do you know how hard it is to write a book? I was just pretty proud of that." Like, that's all I was planning to do. But as you know, you talk to entrepreneurs and they'll say, "There's a business here. And if you want to get this book into people's hands and really help people, you've got to consult. You've got to help people understand what to expect and how to better manage the people side of a merger and acquisition, the book's not gonna, not gonna do it alone. And so it was really based on having those conversations repeatedly. I still oftentimes think, man, I was just crazy, but I— the potential legacy to really help more companies and more individuals keeps me going.

You know, my awareness about these large acquisitions, these multi-billion-dollar deals, or even multi-million-dollar deals seems it runs parallel to my experience with, you know, multimillion or multi-hundred-thousand-dollar deals. What would you say are the key parameters that both the sell side and buy side need to be considering going into a deal?

How do we best prepare ourselves? Well, I think— and people ask me, well, which side do you work with more? And I work with both, right? Because As you highlighted, both sides have a lot at stake. There's a reason this merger or acquisition happened. There was a belief that the growth strategy, the best one, is to come together either through an M or an A. And so for me, both sides have to, again, come to it with respect for the other side, come into it with eyes wide open. While you're focused on getting the deal done and figuring out the valuation and determining the forecasting for the future, you've got to really be aligned around what that future vision is. Collective agreement on that desired future state. Because what I can see happens is one side thinks they're just going to be left alone and able to kind of still do their own thing with the cash influx. Yet the acquirer has a completely different point of view on what they expect to have happen after the deal is done. And so, for me, that's why I focus on the transparency and alignment around what that future vision looks like from both sides. In order to really be successful.

So our listeners mostly, most likely will be on the sell side because they're smaller businesses. Let me just do a couple rapid-fire questions to you. Maybe you can give me a one-sentence answer. Maybe it's not fair, but, um, on the sell side, should I walk in with a firm price?

This is what I want to sell for.

In your head? Absolutely. Okay. What about, uh, key employees? I walk into a deal, do I need to know who I want to keep and— and who is, I hate to use this word, expendable, but that's what I heard in this industry. Do I walk in with the key employees known?

You can walk in with that, but don't expect that to be the case.

You can't assume they'll stay. What about the cash on the barrelhead? I'm told over and over, get money up front versus a long-term, you know, payout through stock or tranches.

What's your feeling there? Well, I personally believe it's the long-term play, and your employees will— because it's just how how you look at it. Your energy, your decision-making, when you're in it for the long term, you come at it in a different way than if you're just looking for that short-term instant gratification.

Next question. For the owner, is it better to stay on as an employee of the new business or is it better, you know entrepreneurs, to leave as soon as you can and start your next entrepreneurial venture?

It depends on the individual, but I would have to say you have to have that clearly in mind. Before you even go into the deal. Is this something where you are going to stay on or you plan to leave? Because time and again, particularly as you just said, with entrepreneurs, you've built this, this is your baby. And if somehow now they're doing things that are out of alignment with what you think is the right thing to do, yet you're no longer the boss, it can really undermine the success of the deal. So you've got to be very clear on what the role is that you're going to play after.

And my advice typically is you, you should move on. And as a small business, what timeframe am I looking at from the initial inquiry to the LOI, letter of intent, all the way to the actual deal being done?

That can really vary. That's— that one's a hard one to answer. The one thing I would say is you be prepared for this to be a long process. To do it right and to be smart and to do the due diligence. That, that you were talking about before, that what-if scenario, and being very clear on what the future vision is and whether you have alignment or not. It's, it's, it's a marathon, it's not a sprint.

Yeah, it really is. I understand now after going through this, it's bi-directional due diligence, meaning the acquirer should know what they're getting, but the seller should know what they're getting into. Yes. Hey, okay, Jennifer, uh, we gotta actually rock and roll, but before we let you go, I want I'd love for you to share where our listeners can get your book and anything else you have to share with us so they can learn more about you.

Absolutely. So it's going to go live on Amazon on November 5th, which in some parts of the country there's a lot of elections happening that day. So just remember when you go out and vote, also go to Amazon and you can, you can order my book there. Right now I'm doing a soft launch, so I've got a number of book signings and speaking engagements with a couple of places. But for those who are eager to get the book, just mark your calendar.

November 5th is when it goes live. Great. So this will broadcast in mid-November and November, so the book will be out already. Go to Amazon now. And if you didn't know it, Jennifer Fonderveil is also planning one day to be the US Ambassador to France. So make that reality happen, Jennifer. It was a real joy having you on the show.

Thanks for joining us. Thank you, Jennifer.

Thank you. All right, let's dance out to Jennifer. Oh, you know, that was a really interesting— I know, we haven't ever done an M&A thing before. Yeah, it was cool. It was super cool. So here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna recap what we learned from Jennifer. We got a game today, guys. I have a brand new one. A brand— what kind of a brand new? Quasi-new. A new spin on one that we've had before. Okay, uh, but we can decide to defer it or do it now. And I think that's all we got, right?

But we learned, plus a game, and that's it.

And talk about your sponsors. Yep. So let's talk about our sponsors with a big long S because we only have one, Jeremy. It's not true, we have two. Oh, that's right. That's right.

We have across the street.

Yeah. Oh my God. That's right. Oh my God. I'm so used to Nextiva being our core sponsor. I disregard everyone else and shame on me. Because Process Street is awesome, and I'm gonna actually throw it to you, Kelsey, to share with our audience what Process Street does.

We love Process Street. I use it with our bookkeeper, Nina. So it's a, it's another task management tool. It's a checklist that's a shared tool, so you can put all of your documents, um, and see when people do what they need to do and ask questions, converse back and forth. Um, it's just another way to streamline your processes super effectively.

Yeah, and like you said, we're using it with Nina. She's our bookkeeper., and she's a virtual bookkeeper. Mm-hmm. I mean, she's a bookkeeper. She's not here. Yeah, I wonder if she calls us a virtual client. If we call her a virtual bookkeeper, we're in a different location than her. Are we a virtual client? Maybe.

Maybe. But this is a great—

I don't see why she wouldn't. Yeah, it sounds so one-sided. Mm-hmm. Kind of ties into M&A, like the one side thinks they're the more arrogant ones. Oh, she's virtual.

They're like, no, they're real. Diane's like, they're real.

Is that a sign of arrogance? I don't know. I don't know. But Process Street is a wonderful tool for that. Collaborative work you need to do with all of your virtual staff or internal staff.

And Nextiva is a— Wait. Yes. You should tell people if they use our link, they get 20% off using Process Street.

No way. Yeah, it's MikeMcCallowits.com/ProcessStreet. Okay, MikeMcCallowits.com, or you can do MikeMotorbike.com if that confuses you, slash Process Street, because MikeMotorbike translates to Mike McCallowits. And you have the link in the show notes too, right? Correct. So there you go. Scroll down to the show notes, click on that. I also want to thank Nextiva. It's a voice over IP phone system and CRM, next-generation CRM. And right about now, they're rolling out their next OS, version amazing. There's no version like 2, 3. It's called version amazing. It will blow your mind. Tell them Mike sent you and you get nothing off. But I don't know, maybe you do. All right, Kelsey.

Actually, I want to start with Jacob Blown. I— what did you learn? I liked 2 things really stuck out to me. Know who you're getting in bed with. I think that that's—

So you should have known when you had that first child of yours.

You know what I'm saying? Oh, God. True story. True story. I do. And I just rewatched that slander video where you had to buy the slander insurance. Remember? Oh, is that insane? Is that insane?

And then the— It's not insane. We— Yeah, I was like, here's a good point. Could be really effective. Do we have slander? We have slander insurance, so I can be slanderous as all I want.

That's amazing. No, I shouldn't. Interesting philosophy.

I should not. I should not. I know where my next paycheck's coming from. Yeah, right, exactly. And then the top line versus the front line. Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense because it actually parallels too. A lot of times I think, you know, top-level management has an idea in their head where they want to go, but they don't talk to the people in the trenches And if they did, that they would find better processes to, to get to that point.

So, yeah, nicely done. What'd you get? Yeah, similar. I really love the frontline versus the top line and that the communication is super key to keeping everybody on board and understanding what their role is and just being accountable for their role. But I love when she says that going into the acquisition, everybody's so rabid focused on the actual acquisition that they lose sight of the people and the actual processes of the business.

Okay, I like that. Mine was that the price sets these unrealistic expectations. Yeah. What I thought was interesting is I think many businesses see the price, when the money comes across the table, as the end of the transaction. It's actually the start of the transaction. It's the transfer of money, but now there's an obligation to finish this collection, you know, the merger of the two companies. So many sellers in particular say, I got the money, I'm done. No, no, that's when you just start. And there can be legal ramifications if you don't follow through on what's outlined in the deal requirements. Yeah. All right, that was cool. That was super interesting. That was super interesting. Is it hot as hell in here, or am I just getting super sick? It's very hot. Because I'm like, I'm starting to sweat. I'm like, this cold is really kicking in. I've, you know, I have a cold. I'm a fever now. All right, I'm gonna let you two pick the game. So the new game, it's not perfect yet, right? It's gonna take time for this to perfect, but we did it last episode. Jeremy wasn't here. Aging process? No, it's just, yeah, kind of like wine. It'll take time for me to research that more. But basically there's these businesses, or in this case different entities, not just businesses that exist, that have your name in them. And there's one that's a fake, but instead this time I did it with 2 of our names, so it could be like Kelsey and Smith, like a Kelsey, because that's Jeremy's last name. Yeah, so I blended people's names, so they're all blends. Everyone's a blend. You just gotta figure out which one's the fake blend. Yeah, so that's the game.

That's the—

maybe suck. And then I have who's, you know, dead or alive. We're getting 2 and 2. And then I have riddles.

So why don't you pick, President? What do you want?

Let's do the name one first. Okay, thank you. So these are— I'm gonna give you 3 different blended names. Now, they're not companies because I didn't have enough time to do research. So it's entities. They really exist. And you tell me which one's the fake. Okay. So the first one is there's a band called the Jeremy and Mike Band.

Ah, that seems real.

Real band. That's a good name. I like that.

The Jeremy and Mike Band.

You can't be in our band though.

Sorry. Yeah, you're out.

You think I want to be? Yeah. You guys are awful. Just in love and just classic.

We're not hard. Do you call us horrible people? Sometimes it's really awkward socially to be around you guys when you're singing. Like, are you kidding me?

No, I get super embarrassed for you. Yeah, so our next corporate retreat, we are singing. Yeah, all the time. All the time. Even the meeting itself. She's got a good voice. All right, next company. You ready? Next company is called Michael Kelsey Financial Advisement. Now I gotta say, this could be a person's name, so this may not be—

I feel like that makes sense.

Yeah, so last name is Kelsey. Yeah, it could be Michael Kelsey, like the person's name. So it's not necessarily the company name. They may or may not be in Dublin, Ohio. I'm just saying. All right, next one is Kelsey and Jeremy's Web Design. Yeah, I don't know if I like that because it downplays— you sound like a, like a homegrown thing. So that's the 3 companies. You have the Jeremy Mike Band, you have the Michael Kelsey Financial Advisement Firm, and you have the Kelsey and Jeremy's Web Design.

I feel like the Kelsey and Jeremy's one isn't real.

Kelsey and Jeremy's not real.

What do you think, Jeremy?

One's not real? One's not real. Two are real.

Um, yeah, probably the last one. I agree. All right, so this game's so fun because you're both right.

You're both right.

Yeah, but you kind of— you kind of— I kind of coached you through it. I know, but Kelsey and Jeremy's Web Design, I don't like that name.

Right. If you had a web design company, like, why would Mike and Jeremy—

I mean, why would Kelsey and Jeremy's Ice Cream would have been better or something? Yeah. Michael Kelsey, financial advisor, is at Dublin, Ohio. 43017 is the zip code. Give him a call, 614-726. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. But that is the start of his number. And then the Jeremy and Mike Band is an acoustic duet of lifelong friends since high school. The interesting thing on their website, they spelled friends incorrectly. That's a word that's pretty hard to misspell. And Jeremy and Mike maybe need to get that fixed. Okay. That's—

I think we're good, right? Is there anything else, Kelsey? I think that's good, but please leave us a comment and a rating wherever you're listening and subscribe.

And please do subscribe. And, uh, we got really cool stuff going on. I got a brand new book coming out called Fix This Next. When you go to my website at mikemotorbike.com, you should see it right on the home page now, and you can check it out and get a pre-order in. And what the book does is help you navigate to the biggest challenge in your business that needs to immediate attention. Usually we're trying to fix everything. You gotta fix the one thing. By the way, also go to mikemotorbike.com and click on Get the Tools to get tools that will make entrepreneurship simple for you.

Okay, we're out of here. Bye, thank you.