Innovation In Business with Casey Wright- Mike Up in Your Business Podcast Ep 8

Just to have another male figure play with their kids and like the importance of rough and tumble play. If you go back into like, like development of children, these boys are missing that so much. So when I hear that people, they, my father was an elementary school teacher And gosh, we're missing that. And I think that a few bad apples have really, um, they've really put a damper on that.

So, you know, when we first met at that EO event, you said something hit me like a ton of bricks. You're like, oh, I started this ninja thing. Like, and in retrospect, it's so obvious what you did, yet no one was doing or seems to even still be doing it. How did it come about?

Well, I started looking at my business as a business, and I think that was the main thing that a lot of people weren't doing. They will be now, you know, with the world as it is. But I started looking at it as a business and how do I serve more people? And it was like, hey, 95% of my gym is girls and boys gymnastics isn't really, you know, doing so hot these days. So how can we just do something fun that'll rebrand and remarket a gymnastics-like program for boys? And I was really just sitting on the bleachers with another, with some other moms watching my daughter take class. And my son was in a little pumpkin seat. And one of the moms said, man, my son would love this. And my husband would never go for it. And it's kind of true. They're just, it just didn't have a, you know, so we started out with a class and then it became a program and now it's a sport and it's in, you know, it's all over the world.

So how come, so Ninja Zone's the business, but how come dads don't want their sons doing gymnastics?

I definitely wouldn't say all. But I mean, I think in general, I mean, I have a son, right, who, that little guy in a pumpkin seat, he's now 8, and I want him to be a part of a team and I want him to make friends. And there's just, there weren't a lot of programs and they were seeming to become less and less and less. So, you know, you can take gymnastics, I don't know, they wear a leotard or whatever, and it doesn't seem as like cool as like football or whatever.

But that's what the guys, that's what the dads are thinking, right?

That's, you know, I think, yeah, I mean, ninja is definitely pretty cool, right?

Like, yeah, well, here's your assessment. I'm thinking dads like, I want, I'm going to a boy, I'm not raising a girl here. And that's a girl's sport, right?

Yeah. And even the, even the, the boys, they, they think that because that's what girls do, right? Girls do gymnastics and dance, we play soccer, we play baseball. You know, we play football, we play basketball. Yeah, but we can also be ninjas. And it's really cool because they're the ones that love it even more because it's edgy, right? It's a little scary, it's a little challenging. They're jumping and climbing and flipping and it's like inherent to human nature to do everything. It's just like, you know, it's obstacle course racing now, the Tough Mudders and the Spartan races and It's all of that combined. It's very testosterone-driven, you know.

Totally. So what's your mix of boys and girls participating in Ninja Zone?

Oh, it's like 90/10. So we started it out for a boys program and then really I got hit with a lot of, well, you know, the girls want to do it. Why won't you let the girls do it? And in all honesty, girls are at that age tend to be like really good little listeners, they follow directions, and the boys would get in trouble if girls are in their classes and it breaks down their confidence. And I, I could go on for days on confidence in kids. And we just felt that if we separated them, it was better because the girls would kind of become the gold standard. So anyway, we separated them, it worked. And then when we started the girls program, they do it for a little while, but it's very similar to gymnastics. And so it's mainly boys, but girls too.

Yeah, but so it's 90% boys, 10% girls. Yeah. What are the fathers acting like now in the bleachers? Like, yeah, go boy. I mean, it just feels like it's so testosterone-generated now.

It's fun. We have the Ninja Games. It's the competitive format. They get scored on like flipping and speed. So it's just like a video game, literally. I mean, it was the whole vision of the games is Mario goes through the course jumping, climbing, jumping up and down and then go fight Bowser, jump, turn, kick, flip, flip off the wall. I mean, it's a video game in real life.

Well, if you don't mind sharing, I'm just curious of the impact on your business on revenue, maybe profitability percentages, like before and after the Ninja Zone. Like what was it before you started, the day before, and what's it like today?

Double. And not only, Well, here's— I have multiple locations, so the facility that it started in was a new facility and it had space to grow because we had just, we just opened and it was 50/50 gymnastics and ninja. So 50% each. And then we started, I opened up a new facility, same thing. And then what's cool about it is because you can have you know, the brothers of the sisters and the sisters of the brothers, it just makes sense that it's kind of a one-stop shop for all things like flipping and movement and coordination. So it's been pretty great. And all of our licensees, they've done well, many of them have taken down new space and, you know, started just because they've— it's the other half of the population, right?

So you've doubled your business. You, you're a licensor. How many licensees do you have?

I think it's like 350.

Okay, so this is a sizable operation. Have any of the boys— have you— how long have you had the Ninja Zone now?

So we, we started it inside the gyms in 2014, launched through an email campaign in 2015, and That was nationally, and so about that long.

So, okay, so we're solid 5 years into it right now. And, um, have you seen any of these boys progress to say, I actually have a love for gymnastics? Have any of the boys converted from Ninja into the gymnastic program?

We've seen that in many of our licensees. I really have. Yeah, it— and it just— it— we wanted to be the foundation, right, for them if they wanted to go into gymnastics or parkour or even martial arts. I mean, it's really just a coordination foundation for anything. Go into, go play basketball. It, I mean, for us, we focus on foundational athleticism and character development so that they can do anything because I mean, that's, that's a much bigger impact on the world than just, you know, building obstacle course and, and trickers, right?

Yeah. And you have, do you have a lot of competitors that sprung up since you came up with this idea?

Yeah, yes, several. And then a lot of people are doing their own programs as well. Just, we call them the DIYs. They'll kind of copycat and make their own thing. And I mean, it's great because it's all ships rise with the high tide. Okay. It is.

But do you really feel it's great or does that piss you off?

No, no, no, no. I like, in my heart of hearts, It's 100% great because our competition is the couch, number one.

Okay.

And two, other sports where they're sitting on a sideline. Yes.

So here's my impression when I met you. I was like, all right, here's a very smart entrepreneur, really competitive yourself. And you didn't come across that way. Actually, you're very affable, very approachable. But I was like, Casey's got some don't-f with-me kind of drive to you. At least that's my sense. If that's true, it's kind of shocking for me to hear it's okay if people copy me.

I'm more of a PR kind of competitor. I'm more of a, I'm really, really competitive with myself with the challenges that I have. I really, we have—

Oh, PR is personal record, not—

Personal record, yeah.

Not public relations, okay, okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't even think about that.

Yeah, that's a very gymnastic type thing to say.

Yeah, I got a Peloton during a month ago and I'm like, oh, did you?

I want a new— how do you like the Peloton? Is it worth the investment?

I'm having a blast and I didn't even like spin. I'm having a blast.

What did that cost you? What did that cost you?

Uh, don't ask me that. I don't think—

are there like 2 grand?

I think— no, I, I think so. I can't remember. That's why I said I don't—

oh, we can't remember, but it's a monthly subscription also.

Yes. Um, but, but you can do all the apps I use. I've, I've really—

you think it's worth it?

Yeah. Oh yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

I have a stationary bike at home, but a stationary Nothing bike. And I'm like, after about 30 minutes listening to another podcast, I'm like, I can't stay focused. Like there's no, there's no drive to do totally different.

It's totally different. And the same thing, I've never run with audio outside and run with a coach. I mean, whatever I can do, I got to change it up. But yes, and the coach— I've never run with a coach in my ear telling me every 2 minutes to do something different. I didn't even think that was possible. And it makes it just fly by. I'm doing like, you know, 45-minute runs outside where normally I'd be like, again, kind of toast.

Yeah. What's that? The Peloton app does that too?

Yeah.

Oh, because I run regularly. Um, and I have an iWatch here. I didn't know there was a pace setting for running and I plugged in the pace setting and I run, I've been running about an 8:30 mile and I set the pacing to 8:15. I started running a 7:55 mile because I was so afraid of getting the buzz of low pace, just that little tweak. And that's over 4 miles. For me, that's a good distance. I don't like to run super long for 4 miles, 7:55. Because of that. Does Peloton do the similar thing?

They do. They even do like training, like training programs, marathon and whatever, um, tough, you know, and I just got it. I'm— yeah, I'm— it's, it's fun. It's fun.

Do you do metrics like that for your Ninja Zone? Like, do the kids see improvements?

How do you track it? Yeah, we have little progress charts and we really try to focus in on the effort, not the result. It's something, um, our wheelhouse is let's say 4 to 9-year-olds. So they don't, and that's where a lot of times parents, when they get involved too soon and you put kids in competition too soon, kids don't understand the scoreboard. And so we really try to, you know, growth mindset, focus on the effort, not the results. So did you try something new today? Did you let something scare you a little bit today? Did you, you know, help a fellow ninja? Like it's, it's much more mindset driven, but they do have their little progress charts. And then the Ninja Games has a whole scoring component with it.

Oh, I want to talk about that. But I gotta ask you this first. So my, my son played lacrosse, soccer, and you hear the parents screaming at their 5-year-old, kick the ball, you know, whatever. And shame on us parents, right? Because I'm one of them. I'm, I don't, I'm not a screamer, uh, but, uh, that sport, I know the rough general rules. Everyone knows the rough rules, and because it's such an established sport, I want my kid to be a great player. Ninja Zone, I wouldn't even know what to compare it to. Do you have that same parents yelling from the sideline, you can do better? Or because, because it's not an established sport in a traditional sense, are actually people more— getting more leniency to their kids?

I definitely think we have a lot of the kids that are really wanting to do more individual sports. And if you think of boys in general, the team sports are difficult. First of all, anything that they join, you have a bunch of volunteer coaches that haven't been trained. You've got kids standing in lines. If you watch, you know, baby soccer, they're running around in clumps. There's no real like teaching of a lot of things at those young ages. And so I think parents are looking for something that their kids really love to do. And not to mention, they want them to play. And I know like at least where we are and where we live, like it's hard. Many of our high schools, it's really hard to make a varsity team unless you've been like single sport since the time you were 4. And then the kids burn out because I coached like Olympic level gymnastics for a long time. And we— they, they burn out. And so let's find something that they can play and that they can do that they're not going to burn out, that builds the same skills, that allows them to go try any other sport and be super confident in their body from a coordination perspective. And that's something that a lot of people don't think about. Like, there's— people feel stupid going in to take a yoga class because they don't understand how to accept auditory cues from a coach and like body positions and just muscle memory. Like there's so much, like I think it's as important as swimming to fitness in your adult life. Like understanding full body coordination because you need that to have the confidence to stay fit and pick up new things.

I wanna ask you a question, but I wanna give you context to the question. So I'll ask the question, but don't answer just yet. Do you have an advantage being a female entrepreneur in this space? Here's the context. I have a friend, his name's Larry, a very successful entrepreneur. Um, I'm doing air quotes because while he's been very financially successful, his dream actually was to be a kindergarten teacher. He says, I just love to work with kids. He said, but he goes, I can never do it. I said, why not? He's like, cause I'm a male. He goes, there's an instant judgment that I'm a molester or something like that. He's like, I just, like to work with young kids because I would never pursue that just for the risk I put myself at. Um, do you think because you're a female in this space that actually gives you an advantage in that regard, perception?

Um, well, I don't teach myself, and I will say that the success that we're having right now are our male coaches.

Interesting.

Like 99% of the time, the moms— typically the moms are the ones bringing the kids. Not all the time, but let's, let's give it 70%.

Okay.

Just to have another male figure play with their kids and like the importance of rough-and-tumble play. Yeah. If you go back into like, like development of children, these boys are missing that so much. So when I hear that people, they My father was an elementary school teacher, and gosh, we're missing that. And I think that a few bad apples have really, they've really put a damper on that, but I don't, I definitely don't let it hinder the people I hire. I haven't, I've never actually coached a Ninja class.

Oh, interesting, interesting.

No.

But your activities are in a public open space. The parent can watch the entire time, right?

Yep.

So they're not in a classroom closed door.

Yep.

Did your father ever experience that bias?

Or was— um, no, my dad actually did not, but we are definitely connected in a space where it's, it's, it's not as much the bias as it is that there's, there's some bad people, you know. There's bad people. Um, but my, my dad was— he was never— he just, I don't know, that was his full-time career. He was a gymnastics— well, he was a kind of an elementary school teacher and then a gymnastics coach.

Okay, so, um, I want to ask you a really difficult question. Uh, when we were doing the pre-interview, you know, one question I just wanted to get— what formed you? And you came back with a response I never expected, uh, about your husband. Yeah, so what, what happened?

So, well, And really that was, that was the catalyst that taught me how to be a business owner because I had to. And I think a lot of times it takes life totally smacking you in the face for you to make the necessary changes, right? We need to make. And basically I had two facilities. I bought my parents' business. They were out of it. Fairly young and I'd done everything on my own. I got married.

How old were you?

Quickly, I was 28 when I got married. So I've worked in the business my whole life. I took it over when I was 21.

And this is a gymnastics business the entire time, right?

Gymnastic business, single, single gymnastics operation. Took it over when I was 21 and then bought it when I was 25. Got married when I was 28. Had got 29, had my daughter a year later. And then, and my husband at the time became the manager for a second facility that, that we opened. So he was the office manager. And, but I ran everything. I was still in the gym coaching full-time. I didn't even have program directors. There were no systems, no, I mean, it wasn't even a business. It was just, what I did. I never called myself a business owner at all. And I became pregnant with my son and he started to, well, I mean, he left and I didn't know why. He just, he left and he was gone. And I knew at that time what real panic was, right? Like I used to kind of joke. Oh, you have anxiety? What's that? You know, until I'm, you know, I've got a baby and I'm pregnant and no husband and no manager. And had my first panic attack, I was driving. And I do have to like, it's, it's sometimes we, we create, we create pathways in our brain. So, so even when I talk about it, I kind of—

you're feeling it.

I have to, yeah, breathe deep. I couldn't breathe and I didn't, I had no idea what it was. I tried calling my mom, my dad, my, I finally get ahold of an aunt that I talked to twice a year and she's like, you're having an anxiety, you're having a panic attack.

You're literally in the car.

I was in the car with your daughter pregnant and my daughter was in the back and I'm like, I just had to pull over because I couldn't breathe because it was all, you know, all the stuff was just coming up to my head and So anyway, it was at that point when he was gone, later to find out he was just slipping into a deep depression that I had no idea. And I knew that I had to give up something to someone. And that was when I hired my first manager. And it was just somebody to manage the second location. I had no idea of my numbers. It, to me, in my head, I thought, I thought of this big salary and how I would never be able to pay for that if— and the fact of the matter is, is I just never really looked at my books. I never, I was never, I was in my business, I was never on it. Um, and it was at that point that I, it was like this I opened this door to this hallway with all of these other doors because once she took that off my plate, I could, I mean, like, let's more, more, more. And then as my personal life got a little bit crazier and he was gone and I was pregnant and then a newborn and I was actually So you had—

I'm sorry, but you had a newborn. Your husband was gone. You had a newborn and you're running a business as a single mom now.

Two. Yeah, I had two facilities. And yeah, and that's, I mean, and that's, I get, I mean, the lesson is that you can't wait until life smacks you in the face to do the things that you need, that you need to do to make a change in the quality of your life.

So, you know, a lot of people would say that's strong. You know, it sounds very strong. Is that the word you'd use for navigating that?

Um, I mean, I'm definitely strong and I've always been, but I think that, um, we have a tendency to be one of two people when we get under stress. We either overreact or underreact. And I've always been an overreactor, which has caused me plenty of pain in itself. But, um, I feel, yeah, I got all kinds of kinds of like weeds growing everywhere. But I, you know, at least it, it, it gave me something to do and to channel my focus. And I knew I had to then, you know, focus on taking care of these kids. And, and that's really where the birth of Ninja Zone came out, because it was only a year after I— after really, my son was born. That we started Ninja. Because I was— I actually opened a third location. And the reason why I opened the third location was because in the second location, I hired a manager and I'm like, life's easy.

Yeah.

Because I always done everything.

So when you said your son was in pumpkin seat, he was 1 years old. And that's when the idea came. So that's 5, 6 years ago now.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, Yeah. So I guess maybe my timeline's a little off. Maybe he was one, maybe he was a year and a half.

Oh, okay. Well, yeah, whatever. Yeah.

But roughly 14.

So he, and he's doing the Ninja Zone stuff now.

Yeah.

And you, you brought a manager on. It was easy. Did it continue to be easy as you brought on new managers?

Um, it was, it was really cool for a while. Um, I, we did the third location and then I did a fourth location. And at the same time as the fourth location, that's when we did Ninja Zone nationally. So in 2015, I then remarried and did the fourth location. And that was a lot. And I heard somebody say once, every time your business triples, it's a different business. Oh, that's what happened. That, that's definitely what happened. And it's really just a change in what you do in your daily schedule, right? It's like, it comes down to what you do with your minutes. And the different decisions that you're making on a day-to-day basis. Are you deciding?

I've actually never heard that every time it triples. So what would be the first point? I guess the $300,000, $250,000, $300,000 in my experience in revenue is where that's the day I can't do everything anymore. I got to make that first hire. Triple that would be about $1 million, $750,000 to $1 million. Um, I guess that's where I gotta start managing the business as opposed to working in the business. $3 million for me was the introduction of systems and actually tiered management. Like, I could no longer manage the managers. They had to manage other people. And I never had a $10 million business. What were your— what would you say the tiers are? How did it change for you and your role?

Well, funny thing, I wish I would know what my numbers were, but that's what—

maybe it's a good thing.

Well, I really just focused on my bank account. Like, gross always seemed like a vanity metric to me and it didn't make much sense. So I just focused on what was in my bank account and made sure I paid the bills. And honestly, every time I grew, I was actually growing for people in my company. Like I was growing for my employees. So like I had a manager that I didn't want her to quit. So I opened up a new place so that I knew I could afford her.

I love that. So tell me about the levels. Maybe it's not pinned to a number, but how did your role change? What were the significant changes in your roles?

This is what you just said in terms of systems. That's exactly how it happened. But for me, it was more, it wasn't necessarily a revenue number. It was, it was what I had to do with what, what I had to do with my brain and what, what my decisions became. So was I, you know, was I teaching flips and twists? You know, that was the first level. And then, and then obviously hiring people. And to me, it's hiring decision makers. That's the— those were the levels that when you hire someone that hires somebody else, that's a pretty, that's a pretty big step. Right?

So how do you hire decision makers?

Well, I mean, I think it's the same way you hire anybody else. You just have to really understand the personality and, and the role that's required and I say this like I'm an expert at it when I'm like trying to get it. I mean, I'm trying to still figure it out every day. We're trying to like really try to prioritize like Pareto principle, those, those key personality characteristics that, that are working for that specific role. So we're, I mean, we're doing it right now and we learned a lot through COVID. On what that person really should be. And right now, our number one, as we— because we are looking to expand— is, is work ethic. I mean, really work ethic. Like, and for us, it's a number 3 on the Enneagram. They've got to be that person that loves it.

Does work ethic mean hours or output?

Um, it, it means that I— there's just a certain personality that, um, identifies with being a grinder.

Gotcha. Does grinder mean do what it takes?

Yeah.

How many employees do you have now?

Well, now or 3 months ago?

Um, let's see, what was 3 months ago?

When's this gonna air? Um, so, uh, yeah, uh, let's see, um, we were about 150 150, mostly part-time though, I would say. Mostly part-time, 150, 165. Oh gosh, I can't. And then, you know, we're down significantly now because we're not really open. Right.

So how's your facilities? That must have— how have you adjusted? Can you adjust?

We did. We adjusted. We went virtual. We created a platform to do the Zoom classes and actually learned a whole lot, got really efficient. The way I explained it to all of our Coaches is, is we can no longer wear Lululemon pants. We need to go back to Target pants and, you know, the pockets might not feel so nice and whatever, but we did. We went virtual and learned a lot, got really lean, got really efficient. Cut some fat, found some— just, it was interesting. I mean, it kind of filtered itself out, and then now we're basically getting to fix a lot of things that needed to be fixed in the first place, and hopefully, you know, hopefully get back in there.

So you're in a— I assume you're in an EO forum, effectively an entrepreneur support group.

Mm-hmm.

Does that help you navigate situations like this?

Yeah, I mean, it's always good to get another perspective. I love to hear, you know, the, the other industries, how they're doing it. And what's really been good with my EO forum is I actually have some kind of secret shoppers in there to let me know how things are going. Just, I mean, it was by happenstance. Circumstance, you know, their kids and we live in the same area and, you know, I've got places all over. So, you know, their kids are attending. But yeah, no, EO has been, has been amazing. And, and you just hear things that you would, you would never, you would never think to ask the question. And then all of a sudden, somebody's asking the question of their own business. And you're like, whoa, wait, I didn't even think about that.

So how do you recover from this COVID situation? How do your business— has your business changed going forward, or does it?

Well, we— I will say that we had a dream, dream business, my dream facility. We were going to build this big complex with gymnastics and ninja, and I have a, you know, a new idea for a movement-based preschool and special needs, and just super excited. And I pulled the plug. I totally pulled the plug. But the crazy thing is, is I was sad for like, I don't know, a day. And then I realized, holy cow, like I can't imagine having a half-built building right now. I mean, there's people out there with half-built buildings and, um, it's, it's just, it's, it's outside of my comfort zone in terms of certainty. And you, you asked me a question when we, when we first met about, I think it was about one of your upcoming books about the disadvantage. Yeah, disadvantage. And then you're gonna have plenty of, plenty of stories for that now, right? So yeah, what I really realized is you have to focus on what you have 1,000% control over, and everything that you think you need to have when something awful happens, you can only play with the tools that are in your in your belt, right in front of you. And that's what you have 100% control over. So that's what we really did is we said, what do we have? What, what is, what is here right now? And got, and, you know, ditch the crazy ideas and ditch the let's try this or do this. And I'm not saying don't be innovative because we did that too with the virtual, but just really focusing on what I have 1000% control over. And to me, that makes— that gives me, I don't know, gives me peace of mind. And it seems to be working.

So, when you said you pulled the plug, was that building under construction already? Or was—

I bought the land. We had the steel ordered. And we dropped out of the queue. And but what's interesting is there's other opportunities presenting themselves, then who knows what's going to happen with commercial real estate and, you know, buy land and wait, and that's fine.

Okay, so you still have the land. That's interesting. Yeah, that's one thing I observed about you. You know, we've talked maybe 4 or 5 times and just, you have this decisiveness that I must— this is what I got to do. Did that come out of the situation with your, your first husband, that one day you woke up and it was just you? Where'd you build this ability just to move forward and not look back? If that's the right expression.

I think it is, I mean, even as a kid, I think that my dad was an entrepreneur and he was fly by the seat of his pants. The house was always on fire. Like something was, it was always an emergency. And so I think that when you live in that for long enough, you, you do not have time to gather all of the puzzle pieces to make a decision. And I just had this conversation with one of my employees. He's, he's like, well, we need to know exactly what the vision is. And I'm like, that is all well and good. And I am all about that 6 months or a year ago. But right now, when there's so much uncertainty, if you're going on a camping trip, and you're packing, unpacking your tent and there's a bear coming at you, you gotta drop your backpack and run. And then, you know what, you might have to come back and clean up your mess a little bit. And it's not nice, and in a perfect world, it's not fun to come back and clean up your mess. But it's us who don't die in these times. We don't get eaten by the bear because we don't— I don't need every— I don't need— I have to make— I have to be able to make decisions with 80% of the information or 50% of the information because that time that you lose kills you.

I was talking with Don Miller. He's the author of a book called StoryBrand, and he says March 14th, we were playing chess still as business owners. He goes, March 15th, it became a tennis match. And he goes, we're now pretty much on the ping pong. It's going back and forth so fast. Similar to what you said. What's the future plan now? So you're going to start reopening facilities, or do you have to wait for specific protocol by state? Like, how does that work?

We're in Indiana, so my facilities are in Indiana, but we have licensees all over. So, you know, we're trying to help the licensees through— many of them are doing virtual programming, so we're helping them with on-demand and and live classes. And then our places are open. We were, we, you know, we opened at a smaller capacity June 1st and we're basically just, you know, doing, doing what we can. And again, that, that also comes down to a decision of you can't, you can't please everybody because we learned that real quick. We learned it on the close. We did a big survey and Dude, if I haven't learned anything, the world is 50/50 right now.

And just everything, it doesn't matter what you say, matter what you're talking about, the world's gonna hate you. Half is like, that's a miracle, right?

You're gonna be wrong no matter what you do. And you're gonna be right no matter what you do. So we just really had to look and say, what, let's, let's go with the truth that moves us forward. And so we're, we're just going to go with that. And we have to be willing to turn people away if if we don't feel like we can meet their expectations. And, you know, and we have kids in there for gosh sakes. And, and I think for me, I— my integrity lies in truth. And I would, I would feel terrible making a promise that I couldn't deliver on. We are not going to be perfect social distancing 5-year-olds. We'll try. But to me, it's I need to be truthful, and I also want to make sure that they have fun, because if they don't have fun, the downside risk of them not coming back is a much bigger downside risk than a handful of people not signing up for camp.

So, yeah, well, that's totally smart, and I think that what I've learned of you, that's your style, is that this is the way we're gonna march, this is the way we're gonna go, and you do it with absolute integrity. So, Casey, is Casey right? Where can our listeners get more information about Ninja Zone and maybe yourself?

Sure. Then the ninjazone.com, you can find all of our locations there. So we have licensees in almost all 50 states and several other countries. And then I did do— I have a podcast called The Sports Entrepreneur, which is On a temporary pause. Again, I had to focus on where I could really move a needle. And so, but there's some, there's some great content there as well.

I have a strong feeling you have these recessions, Casey, come the strongest businesses. You're clearly on a much greater mission than just a gymnastic facility or just helping boys. I mean, you're helping all different communities get back to like the basic of humanity, which is movement as opposed to non-movement. So thanks for what you're doing.