Recap| Ep 56 The Future of Workspace and Culture w Paul Holland #MUIYB Podcast
In this episode of Mic'd Up in Your Business, hosts Mike and Amy interview Paul Holland, an executive at Solomon Coyle, about the evolving landscape of office space and workplace culture. They discuss how furniture sales serve as a leading indicator of office usage, suggesting that declining office furniture purchases signal reduced physical office presence. The conversation shifts to the authenticity of office amenities, critiquing token items like foosball tables that are rarely used, and emphasizing the need for genuine cultural elements. Amy and the hosts brainstorm outdoor and green workspace concepts—garden areas, rooftop spaces, and nature‑infused environments—tailored to their team's preferences. The hosts also explore hybrid work dynamics, distinguishing “head‑down” focused work that thrives at home from spontaneous collaborative moments that benefit from physical proximity, noting Jeremy’s 95‑99% remote work rate. Personal productivity tools such as Apple’s Reminders app are highlighted as practical ways to capture ideas and manage projects. A light‑hearted fish‑nutrition trivia game, led by Jacob Blum, provides a comedic interlude while sharing facts about salmon, cod, and mercury levels in tuna. Throughout, the hosts convey optimism about repurposing office space into coworking or event venues, encouraging listeners to visit solomoncoil.com for more insights. The episode concludes with calls to rate the podcast, a promotion for Mike’s book “Get Different,” and contact information.
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All right.
So on this episode of Mic'd Up in Your Business, we interview Paul Holland. Paul is an executive over at Solomon Coyle and shares insights, which I thought was very interesting. A lead indicator of what the future beholds in regards to office space, remote environment is furniture sales. If people aren't buying furniture for offices, they're probably not going to offices. Well, listening to what Paul shared and his insights, I thought it was an interesting interview.
I thought it was a really interesting conversation. Loved this conversation.
The idea that, of course, if you're not buying the core supply for an office, which is furniture, you're not using it. If you're not buying toilet paper for the bathroom, maybe no one's using the bathroom, right? I think this is an interesting, clear indicator of what is coming down the pike.
Yeah. You know what I wasn't thinking about was in moving to a virtual space, I was thinking about the employees. I wasn't really thinking about your client's perspective of your work world, right? You know, what it is you're showing. That was, that was a perspective shift for me in that conversation. I'd be like, oh yeah, that's something else you have to be considering and thinking about. And you know what I also liked? And this made me think about us guys.
Wine?
Yes, I always think about wine. I'm always thinking about wine. But there was something else. You know how, Mike, you guys were talking about the things people do to create like culture in the office and that, you know, you've got the foosball table and the ping pong table, but, you know, nobody's really using those, da da da. It has to be authentic. That was a really good point. You and Paul made that point. I thought that was really cool. And you know what I was thinking?
What?
I'm dreaming big here, people. Dreaming big. But our next office space for us people— yeah, don't you think we are an outdoor bunch? Don't you think we need green space?
Oh, I like that.
That's authentic to us. Jeremy's an outdoor guy. Aaron's— oh, I really like— you're an outdoor guy. I'm a garden girl. Kelsey's an outdoor girl.
I think that's, that's, that's super interesting. And what do you think, just so you can work inside or outside?
Yeah, like if we had a garden space, you know, a couple hanging garden chairs out in a green space or in woods.
I love that.
Like, I'm thinking, like, imagine being able to cultivate that kind of workspace for your people, for the culture. And luckily, we all share that culture. I mean, there could be somebody who comes in and they're a complete city person and it does not speak to them, but For the group that's assembled, it's, it's pretty amazing. But anyway, I'm a little off topic.
No, you're not.
We can throw in some, um, the Jurassic Park dinosaurs into the plants on the, on the ground. Yeah.
Okay.
With that, let's go for a, um, like a rooftop space too.
Yes, I love those too. Those always intrigue me. White little string lights above.
It's interesting, you know, when I'm home, sometimes When working home, if it's nice weather outside, I'll go on the outside deck. Yeah, problem is the light can be so glaring that you need to set up, but you can do that where you have proper shading so you can work. But also just to get the— sometimes the sun just beating on your back or something.
Yeah, delicious, delicious, delicious. Absolutely delicious.
We can set up a hunting stand for Jeremy, so it will be in our space.
Jeremy, we could run around and Jeremy could try and shoot us with his camera.
Yeah, gun camera things. Gotcha.
I actually, I almost got seriously hurt, uh, a couple days ago. But how's that?
What happened?
My dad has a, um, a crossbow, and, uh, it's, it's older. It's like a vintage one, and he hasn't used it in years, and it was in the garage. And he's like, you want, you want to buy it from me? And I was like, well, I don't know, let me see. Like, because I like traditional bows. So, um, I just put a dummy arrow in, and I was testing it out, went to shoot it. The string snapped and it, uh, it cut the dummy arrow and split it in two. And luckily it wasn't a real arrow with a broadhead on it, because if it would have snapped wrong, it could have like shot back and got me in the eyes. Yeah, so I was like really lucky about that.
He charged you for it? He's like, oh, you ruined it, now it's yours.
But I didn't tell him, because if I do, he'll be like, well, he broke it.
Really?
Or you used it, you know, one of them. Like, come on.
You know what I also like to have the Paul Holland interview was this concept of hybrid work environment, kind of we're doing it now. So Amy, you were here at the physical office this morning, but now you're working from home.
Yeah.
Uh, Jeremy works remote 95% of the time, 99% of the time. I think it's, uh, it is interesting, this hybrid. And I like how he delineated it. He goes, you have the head-down work, which for some people working at home or in a place where it's quiet is best. Then you have the collaborative work. The only thing, and we kind of talked about too, is Can you really allocate time to collaborate, or is collaborative a natural effect of being together and it's spontaneous?
Yeah, that was— that's an interesting point. And I get pulled because, um, like some mornings I know the tasks I have on my mind are like, I really could use to stay home. I sometimes— the quiet and, uh, helps me focus on— especially I'm working with like a contract or something like that, or an agreement or something. But then, uh, you miss— I'm sure, Jeremy, you, you know this, like you miss the the camaraderie and the people and the conversations that get generated. I talk about this with my son in virtual schooling. He's missing so many peripheral cues from the classroom when he's home. When he's home, yeah, you're missing conversations people are having with other people that give you just a little bit of information and just a little more context. And, you know, I learned things that you're discussing with Aaron or with Corday or something like that. I get I get more understanding about the business, um, than when I'm home and I'm, I'm not in on that stuff. So I think we— you do miss a lot when you're not physically together. There's a lot of cues that get, get missed.
I mean, there's, um, there's pluses and minuses, obviously, to the— I think if it's one of those situations where we're doing a quarterly meeting, if we're trying to come up with ideas on the fly, it's hard because there's a lot of pressure and it's like everybody's there. And so you're like, oh, you're trying to rack your brain in the moment to think of these things. But like, from me working from home, I'll, you know, turn on the TV while I'm cooking dinner and then I'll be like, oh, and I'll just think of something randomly and I'll put the knife down and go and like write a little note down. Oh yeah, yeah, like that.
Yeah, there's, there's an interesting phenomenon, uh, that you just pointed out Jacob Loan, is that when we are immersed in an activity where we have such routine experience, like for you cooking, not for me, for cooking is for me, we so deliberate, like pay attention, focus.
Yeah.
But you've gotten to the point where I've seen you chop that knife. I'm like, oh my God, I would lose my entire hand. But your mind then goes elsewhere and it stays on task, but at the same time allows the mind to wander.
Yeah. Sort of dream state, right?
Like, yeah, you get dream state. And I think that's where the best brainstorming comes is doing routine stuff.
Yeah, I agree, I agree. That's interesting.
Yeah, I think in a lot of ways though, my brain and your brain are similar in that I'm constantly like— my brain's always going like a mile a minute.
And everyone's right. No, no, no, not necessarily.
Okay, I mean like in terms of like, um, you know, constantly just like random things will pop in my head and then I'm like, oh, and then I play that out and then moves on to something else, and then I play that out. And it's just like— it's hard to explain, but it's almost like— it's like just like a— like a motor, almost like, um, like ADHD kind of.
Yeah, yeah, great. I, uh, started using on the Apple— this has always been there, but it's a thing called Reminders, that little icon if you can see it next to my Audible.
And so I've never used that app.
It's great. So just for— there's PFP for different categories. I just have all these lists So family, shopping, house projects, work, ideas.
Wow, 13 house projects.
Yeah, crazy.
Does it ding you, Mike? Does it alert you, or is it just there for you to refer to?
It's collection, and once it's done, I click it off.
Okay.
House project, I gotta install a light, I gotta replace some insulation, spackle the downstairs. It's just great because if I don't write these down, I'll forget them. And what I did is I had a project list in one spot. Now with this little thing, ideas— like, I had some ideas I had to discuss on a call today, and I was just well prepared because I collected them over the weekend when they kind of sprang up.
That's cool.
I'm gonna try that. That's a good one.
Yeah. So anything else about, uh, Paul Holland that you learned you guys want to share?
I thought it was interesting that he thinks we're going to absorb all that space, that all that, all that corporate—
yeah, right. He was pretty optimistic about it.
He was optimistic, and more optimistic than I expected him to be. What did you think, Jeremy? Was that surprising to you?
Because yeah, it's fascinating. I mean, that— I don't think I really even considered that or thought about that.
I kind of thought no. I thought the answer was going to be like, now we don't see that. We don't— we see, you know, apartment maybe filling those up with residential space or something like that. But he sounded optimistic.
Yeah, repurposed.
Coworking spaces is getting bigger. I'm in one right now. So yeah, I think that's a viable option for, for people.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's what it is because, because he said we need to gather to get together in a place, not the office space. And that to me, that points to coworking. Yeah, event spaces.
Yeah, I kind of like the, um, I like that it opens up interesting and maybe unique new space ideas.
Yeah, I think so too.
And uses.
Yeah, I think it will. All right guys, um, I want to invite you to go to solomoncoil.com to check out what Paul Holland's got going on, and maybe you can see ways to repurpose your office space and go to a hybrid environment. Um, I also want to remind you, please rate our podcast. Go to rateourpodcast.com. We need you to do that. It's how we get the word out. Jacob Blum, you got a little game for us?
Yeah, it's begging, please give us a raise. Um, all right, so Paul is nicknamed the Rockfish. Don't know why, it was just in the notes.
It was.
I'm running with it. Okay, fish trivia. Love it, the connections that I can make here.
No, it works, it works.
Yeah. Uh, so what is the healthiest fish in terms of nutrition? Is it tuna, Alaskan salmon, or halibut?
Just for the halibut. We had Atlantic cod yesterday. That was good.
Oh, my sister had cod last night too. It was good. What'd you— how'd you serve it?
I fried it. I, uh, sautéed some butter, threw it on top, some paprika. Little garlic salt, salt, pepper. It was amazing.
Next time I'll give you a beer batter recipe. Do fried cod like fish and chips.
Oh, I want that. Can you make it for me?
Yeah, we should cook it for everybody next retreat or something.
Oh, I love that.
But we have to catch the fish, remember? That's a callback to a conversation Mike and I had. Amy, would you go fishing?
Would I go fishing?
Yeah.
Would somebody bait the hook?
Yeah, yeah.
Carry us, carry her on your shoulders because we're Navy SEALs, right? Yeah, that's a callback there.
Salmon is the most popular fish in the U.S., partly because of its orange color. The orange color is due to carotenoids. Carotenoids, carotene, I forget.
I don't know, carrots, I think.
Yeah, I think, I think I was saying the German version, carotenoid. Which occur naturally in the salmon's diet in the wild from krill and shrimp. Farm-raised salmon is what color before chemicals are added to turn it orange? Is it—
no idea. Holy cow.
Yeah, this is, this is a lesson in here. Light pink, grayish white, or opaque blue?
I think I know that one. I knew they added color to it.
Yeah. And it's, it's really annoying because, yeah, the color is almost 20% of the cost of the salmon.
Isn't it funny? They don't have to add color to it, but they do because the theory, well, if it's farm raised, they add color.
So the theory, people, people won't buy it if they don't add the, the color.
Yeah. Isn't that crazy?
This is such news to me. Wow. You learn something new every day.
You, you, you look at wild caught salmon versus, or salmon versus farm-raised and look at the color difference. It's unbelievable what natural color looks like, right?
Yeah. I'll give you guys a salmon tip once we, uh, go back to it. Um, question 3: What tuna contains the least amount of mercury? Is it yellowfin, skipjack, or albacore?
I don't know the answer, but it better be freaking yellowfin because that's what they serve at the sushi house next door.
Like, you should probably get your blood tested for mercury.
Okay, my— I think he just gave us our answer. Shoot.
Okay, what do we got?
All right, the healthiest fish in terms of nutrition is which fish?
Salmon.
Got it. Yep.
Yay.
Let's salmon. So when I worked in food retail, there would be two options. There would be a fresh salmon and there would be frozen salmon. And everybody, if I was in the frozen section, would come over and say, hey, I want that salmon, but I want the fresh. And I'm like, trust me, you want the frozen. Because everybody assumes that because it's fresh, then that means it's going to be better. But the fresh was farm-raised. Ah, wild-caught from Alaska. So in terms of that, it's way better to get frozen.
And it's preserved on the boat, right? They freeze on the boat, or—
well, they take it off the boat, they fillet it like right offshore, and then freeze it.
Yeah, so it's preserved pretty Fresh.
Yeah, yeah. So always better to get wild-caught, not farm-raised.
Good to know.
Um, but what's interesting, a 3-ounce serving— serving— 3-ounce serving of salmon is 85 grams about, is 155 calories and 20, almost 22 grams of protein, 6.9 grams of fat, um, and contains selenium, niacin, vitamin B12, and vitamin B6, and a bunch of other vitamins.
That's a superfood if ever I heard one.
Um, okay, question 2. What color is the salmon before the carotenoids are added? Is it light pink, grayish white, or opaque blue?
I'm gonna go with— I said grayish white, but I'm leaning towards opaque blue now. Blue.
I put grayish white. I think, pretty sure that's what it is.
It's grayish white.
My son used to work at the seafood department at King's.
Ah, there you go.
Yeah, well, they still get an orange, but they knew things. It was amazing how many, um, uh, worms are in fish. What do they call them? Like, you know, they kind of go into the flesh, uh, like parasites.
Parasites.
Unbelievable how many parasites are in fish. So their job is to remove all the parasites. It's unbelievable. Yeah, it's not— I know, I know, I'm sorry, I'm ruining everything.
What are you, Kelsey?
Yeah, I know, I feel like I'm Kelsey ruins everything.
That's why we got her off for— off the podcast, because she ruined it so much.
No, she didn't.
All right, what tuna contains the least amount of mercury?
Better be yellowfin, bro. And I'm just—
but he already just said you have to go get a mercury test, so now it's gotta change my answer. I'm gonna change it to albacore.
It's skipjack.
Oh, we're both wrong.
Skipjack are tinier and they don't go as deep.
So therefore, Mike, you won this one too. 2 out of 3. 2 out of 3. Well done, sir. I got one. I just got the salmon.
You go to the grocery store, look for skipjack.
Okay.
I've never heard of Skywalker and Darth Vader fighting it out between me and you. It's just like, God, the intelligence and the strength and the anger and the insults.
Oh, sure.
All right, my friends, we hope you enjoyed the episode. Hopefully you got 3 out of 3 on that. We would love your rating and reviews. Please go to rateourpodcast.com. Please email me any questions you have at askmike@mikemccallouts.com. And hey, check out my newest book. It's on pre-order right now. It's called Get Different. So go to amazon.com and type in Get Different, because if you want your business to stand out, you need to get different. You know what I'm saying?
That's what you're saying.
Cool. All right, we out of here.
Wishing you good times.
Wishing you good times.
