From Tech Focus to Business Growth: An MSP Success Story | Sheila O’Brien Hair | Chris Wiser

A lot of the, I'm going to say a misnomer that the IT industry has is you're not going to be a good MSP if you're not exclusively tech focused.

Right.

You guys are. You're focused on growth and revenue and sales now.

Yeah.

What has that done for your business?

It's saved our business.

What's up everybody? Chris Weiser here. Welcome to another episode of Building a Profitable msp. Super excited to have one of my good friends Sheila Hair here today. How you doing, Sheila?

I'm doing great.

Welcome to the podcast the show. It's pretty cool. We're live live here in Fort Lauderdale at the Seven Figure MSP live event.

Yes.

And it's good to have you. So this is kind of a cool situation for me because I get to do a lot of these live normally it's zoom that we do these podcast episodes and so doing these here at the show allow me to do the live events and discuss and all this other stuff. And you and I go probably the furthest back of anybody that I know in the industry because I was on a webinar. I'm trying to think, I think this is either 2007 or 2008. I was on a webinar with. And you guys that are MSPs are going to get this with Zenith Infotech and Autotask. And it was, I think it was the Autotask webinar and they were like saying how to combine Zenith Infotech with it. It was the A to Z webinar and I was the guest and it was cool because you kind of said hey, we're trying to do some stuff with Zenith and Autotask. Can you help? So we met each other. I actually came down to your business. My computer guy down in Rockwall, Texas, I remember all of stayed at your house one night. It was pretty cool. And now you're sitting here with me at as a Seven Figure member Y and I want to hear a little bit of your story. I think everybody else wants to hear your story. Where'd you guys start out? What got you to this? Maybe maybe kind of what got you to the seven Figure MSP part. But talk about a little some of the early days.

Okay, well, we started. My husband started the business in 1996 as a part time thing while he was working for a real estate law firm. Just to write off.

I graduated high school in 95, just so you know that.

Huh?

I graduated high school in 95.

So you know that. All right. All right.

That's A win for me.

But anyway, it's. It's been a long time we've been in the business. My husband is older than me, so there we go. Three years older. But that's how my computer Guy started. In 2004, he got laid off and did the business full time. And that's when I joined part time. And then in 2006, I started full time with my computer guy, but I did more of the sales and marketing and community relations chamber events.

I remember you were really big with the chamber and rock Wall and all the events, right?

Yep. And I think getting involved in the community and the chamber has helped our business grow. We've gotten a lot of awards and recognition. I've. I've served on multiple boards. So I have a lot of relationships, you know, out there in the community. And it's led to referrals that become clients and become, you know, I think.

You know, Rockwall is a suburb of Dallas. You guys, you guys are pretty, pretty good size in Dallas, which is awesome to see.

Yeah.

So I think back to when I originally met you, you guys were more of a. I don't say retail computer, but I think. Well, I think. But it wasn't like a retail store. It was still a business office back then.

It was.

And it, you know, I had a retail store, so it was nothing like my retail store was. It was still a business office. You still dealt with businesses. But it was a lot of this break fixed mindset, not necessarily managed services per se, like we do it now.

Right.

So you guys were mostly project based, mostly break fix.

Yep.

What kind of struggles came from that? Do you still see struggles from it? We've never talked about some of this stuff, so it's kind of, it's kind of cool for me to literally asking questions that I want to know the answer to. So what do you see? Like, was that an issue? Has it created an issue now? Is it, was it a good thing? What's your take on, on the whole my computer guy retail slash breakfast mindset?

Yeah, I think having the retail side in the early days was really helpful because we got a lot of clients and then they had businesses. So we were able to then help support their businesses when we helped them out with their, their home computer issues. And things were a lot more simple back then. You didn't have all the security issues.

That you had, weren't they?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just wipe it and reload it and you're all good to go get them a new piece of hardware, upgrade the hard Drive, you know, it just things, things were not as complex as they are now and the risk wasn't out there. And all the cloud stuff we have going on.

Yep.

The human element, it just wasn't. There wasn't that much you could do to your computer that we couldn't fix.

Yeah.

Back then.

So it was a good thing. It was simple back then. But it's, you know, I think you and I have talked about this in the last couple of years here. It's presented a challenge now, especially as you move into managed services, you move into managing client, full client business networks and all that. What do you see has been. The detractor is the wrong word. But what do you see has been the kind of the catalyst to the change that you have now? Or where does my computer guy sit now in today's world? And we're end of 2023 right now.

Right, right. I think we're in a great position right now. But I would say a lot of that's due to the seven figure MSP program. We came in at the right time because I was able to really start selling more on security and how we can solve their problems versus, you know, tools and solutions.

So all the tech stuff. Yeah. And I know Bill really, I know Bill really well. Honestly, here's what I'll tell you on that. I know Bill very well. He's probably one of the most tech guys I've ever met. And you are the polar opposite of that. Which is. It's pretty interesting watching the last couple years, seeing you blossom.

Yeah.

Because you've. And I'm not even saying you weren't blossom then, but it was more of like he was kind of the guy that was talking to all the clients because it was always the tech and always the tools and it's kind of flipped.

Yep.

What do you, how do you feel about like, how do you feel about changing that role? That's got to be. Feel kind of interesting in the, especially in the husband wife dynamic too. Right.

I think, Yeah. I think he knew that he wasn't going to be a salesperson or you know, that he is a tech and so he kind of realized that it was holding the business back and I was the community, the face of my computer guy. You know, I had a lot of relationships and I was motivated to, to be more profitable and become more, you know, women owned business. We switched. In fact in 2018 I became the President and CEO and he.

Now you're a woman owned business.

Yes, I'm a woman owned business. Congratulations. On that.

That's really cool. I know we've talked about that in the past, but I didn't know you did that.

Yeah.

So you just said a couple things that were really key to me. Thing one, Bill realized that being the tech wasn't going to lead down profitability path, which, you know, most msps that we talk to. I know you kind of follow the big Facebook groups that I have and some of this other stuff. A lot of the, I'm gonna say a misnomer that the IT industry has is you're not gonna be a good MSP if you're not exclusively tech focused. You guys are, you know, doesn't mean you're a bad msp. Doesn't mean you're a bad tech, but you're not. You're focused on growth and revenue and sales now.

Yeah.

What has that done for your business?

It saved our business. Honestly. When we came to seven figure msp, we were at a place where we had some big clients that were like probably half our income. And we ended up losing those clients a year later after we joined the program. But I had already done I think 6 CSR A and we were still trying to learn how to implement the tools and get the, you know, documents, the agreements updated and all of that. But it took me nine months to close our biggest client that replaced that income and we closed that deal like probably two months after we lost our biggest client. And it, it was a smaller client that more than doubled that revenue. So we lost a bigger client that wasn't profitable and was high risk and got a smaller client that was very easy to maintain and turned into profitable.

Yeah, I think that's really key. So you know, a couple things that you really are emphasizing here for me and for those of you that are watching this too. Profit first. It's funny, we got Mike Michalowicz coming to our show in Phoenix coming up here. So we got profit first. We got looking at growth, high margin, all these different pieces. But obviously you guys are still doing a good job on your tech. Bill's not any worse. Again, I think he can focus more on that tech side, but at the same token, still really, really focusing on being growth minded and a woman owned business, which I think is absolutely awesome to see. My wife's a woman business owner. My wife's a woman and she's a business owner. But I think that stuff make it so relevant. I think that's really key.

Yeah, it definitely is.

You said one other piece there about how you guys are very, very Cash focused. Now how do you feel about that? Like the fact that it's flipped from this responsive, tech focused business to now this proactive. And it's funny because it's reactive and responsive and it's all words that we use in the tech industry. But we're usually talking about the tech side. Right now we're talking about growth and business mindset. How do you feel about, does that make you feel? Is it like a warm blanket around you from a business standpoint or how do you guys feel about that?

Well, for me, I think one of my biggest challenges when I came back, I drank the Kool Aid and getting everyone in our company to, to see that it could be done and they're like, there's no way you're going to get $300 a user. And I'm like we're going to do it. And so, and it, it wasn't immediate. It took me a while. I had my head trash. I had to get through and stumbled through my presentations and if I, my advice would be to follow the play and don't skip steps because you know, I was trying to get things done.

And, and it's a lot of what we talk about. Yeah, but it's, it's getting, you know, you ment head trash. That's something that, that me and our head sales coach Cindy Phillips use. A lot is getting past head trash. And it's usually, you know, for you guys that are watching, it's getting rid of that self doubt getting away from I can't do this or I can't do this in my market or I can't. And the whole concept isn't to go out there. And this is where a lot of the, I'm going to use the term misnomer again. This is where a lot of the misnomer around MSP is going to be. You know, typically it's this good, better, best. We still, let's go take our smallest client and jack up the rates to $300. It's not that it's not like, it's not that it's not scamming your clients. It's saying you should have the best offering. We're going to obviously strap some margin on top of it. Our goal is an 80% growth, 80% gross profit margin on that. But so now you're mentioning, you're closing these deals and you're getting these numbers. So a couple of tips for our viewers that are watching this coming from a woman owned business, tech focused husband and wife team migrated over to this sales growth team. I'm very proud of you, by the way. Like, I don't want it to sound condescending, but I've. We've come a long way together and it's pretty cool to see this. From my standpoint, what are a couple tips that you could give a couple of our viewers that have that head trash or I can't get the 80% margins or, and note guys that are watching this, it doesn't. You don't have to be at 300 per seat. Our mindset is start at 300 per seat with an 80% margin as our goal on a 36 month agreement and then pivot accordingly based on what you know. So some tips from you like to fight through that head trash or to maybe get yourself those deals.

Just, I mean, your nose may become your yeses. So. And it's not if you don't get a immediate response. You know, don't take that as like, I guess, like what Cindy was saying earlier. Learn from your, your failures. Like, and then sometimes those become successes. I love that we had, you know, put those no's on your list to revisit once you've gone through your entire client base.

And I talked about that in my open this morning. Cindy also was on stage talking about that during her session today. So I think those are key. So, so thing one, your, your failures are stepping stones. Yes. I think that's a good one. Right? What else, what else can we talk about?

Also? Just focus on your, your business. You know, you can't be working all the time. You have to have some focus time so that you can make that list and get to those clients and just do it, schedule it. Like, that was one of my takeaways this time. I was like, I still, I mean, I'm not Perfect. I've got 35 more clients I need to meet and upgrade. So out of 45 recurring clients, I'm still working that. So my challenge is, you know, I haven't done as much on the sales and marketing side because I'm still trying to get through.

Well, now you're kind of passing the head trash and getting past some of this stuff. So now you're like, oh man, now.

I can go back and invite your team. Like, I'm bringing, I'm bringing McKenzie with me. And the reason I brought her is so that she could really see the success stories and see that it works. Because to somebody that just hears it, they're like, this isn't for real. But it is for real. And the community that you get by attending these events and you know, talking to your peers and seeing the vendors. It's. You have to go to events you can't.

Well plus you get to win prizes.

Oh my God. Yes. This is pretty cool.

So you guys that are watching with us, we had our event in Chicago back in Q3. This was Earl mid August. Sheila and her daughter Grace took a one hour prize. And I, I live in Austin, she lives in Dallas. First week of October was the Austin State of Limits music festival. Sheila won our VIP package for that which.

Really cool.

I got to see you guys there. It was really cool. It's pretty good. That was your first time there, right?

At that event, at that event? Yep.

Yeah, it's a pretty cool, pretty, pretty special event.

Pretty spoiled with that VIP experience.

Wow, I'm so happy that you're here. That was, I was so happy that you won that it made, made my weekend, honestly.

It was really cool. So that was very cool.

Okay, so we got a couple quick things before we part. First of all, woman owned business owner flipped your husband from the face of the company. When I met you, he was. No, he was everybody the face of the company. They all knew him. They all knew. And, and he was kind of, I don't want to say he was against that, but he was a little bit against.

He was skeptical.

He was definitely, he definitely did not want. He was worried about him not being the face of the company anymore. I know that he was worried about that. So that's a big factor. Now you've moved to that women owned business owner mindset. Growth, cash flow sales. Any final parting words and congratulations on all this. It's really good to see any final parting words that you'd give anyone that's watching today.

Just get involved in your community. Join 7Figure MSP.

We'd love to have them for sure. That's.

But no, I, it, it was, it definitely changed our mindset. You got to get rid of that head trash and take a risk. Don't embrace your, you know, step out of your comfort zone.

Yeah, I talked about that a lot of my, in my keynote last quarter and then this morning as well. Talking about, you know, making sure that you push yourself and, and that getting into that place of discomfort, that's where the growth happens. And I think that's really true.

That's very true.

And I think it's, it's so key. And one other thing that I've seen in you, I've never told you this, but I've watched you blossom I don't know if you realize that this has happened, but you were very quiet and very shy when I first met you. And you're not that way anymore. And, you know, we're talking 15 years together. I think it's 15 years. Like, right now, I'm pretty close because I remember it was 2008, I believe, so damn close to that. But it's really, really great to watch you guys mature as a company, you mature as a human being. And it's really cool to see MacKenzie here and have you, you know, have your staff kind of buying into this, and it's it's really great. So thanks so much for coming out with me today. Again, Sheila, here, my name is Chris Weiser. Thanks for joining us on another episode of Building a Profitable msp. We'll see you guys next time.