Spreading Happiness, Mental Health & Happiness Hacks with Mario Chamorro

Hello and hola, amigos. Bienvenido to the Longevity and Lifestyle Podcast, where I invite pioneers and thought leaders in all things longevity and lifestyle to give us the strategies, tools, and practices to live better and help us reach our highest potential. Today's guest is Mario Chamorro, an international ambassador for happiness who has spread smiles across three continents and swapped stories with politicians, former guerrilla combatants, and countless community leaders. Mario was part of a group of happiness activists that created the International Day of Happiness at the United Nations, which falls on March 20th each year. Mario is currently working on making mental health journeys easier through his new startup, Before July 2021, Mario was the head of Coursera Latin America, where he grew Coursera by 16 million users and developed an enterprise business with more than 250 organizations using Coursera for Enterprise from the region. In the past, Mario served as VP of Marketing for Samoa's Messenger, where he secured 10 million downloads within 30 days of launching the app. It became the fastest-growing messaging app in internet history. Mario grew up next to an active volcano in Pasto, Colombia. In 2004, he left his country, moved to Boston, and learned English while waiting tables, parking cars, and teaching salsa lessons. A few years of hard work and good faith resulted in a master's degree from Columbia University's School of International and Public Affairs. He has held several positions on Wall Street, worked as a consultant in Boston, and organized anti-corruption programs for the Colombian government. Mario's work has touched millions of lives in the private and public sectors. Mario has presented at TEDx events internationally, given a talk at Google headquarters, spoken before a UN panel on happiness, built workshops for socially conscious corporations, coordinated major grassroots activations in the streets of cities worldwide, and mobilized student groups and universities around the globe. His work has been featured in the press, including Fast Company, Forbes, and Harvard Business Review, among others. As of today, Mario's initiatives have touched the lives of 45+ million people in 33 countries. In this episode, we cover what it's like to create the United Nations International Day of Happiness, what Mario's daily dose, D-O-S-E, of happiness hormones look like. Hint, it's an acronym. And how to plan your day accordingly. We talk about stoicism, growing up next to a volcano in Colombia, reaching your dreams, not letting a no stop you, solving for mental health, the joy of being happy and spreading happiness, and much more. Before we begin, please hit subscribe to the podcast to get your weekly dose of longevity and lifestyle inspiration. I would also love to hear from you, so please leave a comment and let me know what you think in iTunes or Apple Podcasts, or you can also reach out to us on Instagram @longevityandlifestyle. That's @longevity, L-O-N-G-E-V-I-T-Y and A-N-D. Lifestyle, L-I-F-E-S-T-Y-L-E. Please enjoy.

Welcome to the Longevity and Lifestyle Podcast, Mario. It's such a pleasure to have you on today.

It's my pleasure to be part of your podcast. I have it in my background.

I can see it there, Mario. Thank you. Mario, I'd like to start with why happiness is such an important passion project for you, or way of life, I should say. And why happiness in your view is also so important for longevity.

Hmm. So happiness is important for me because I believe it's a good way to live our lives. When you prioritize happiness, you develop habits on your day-to-day that lead you to be in a more happier mood. But I would say kind of like I'll take a step back. And I would say like for me, happiness is mostly tranquility. For me, happiness is not being super optimistic. It's just kind of like we're going crazy. For me, happiness is just to be tranquility. For me, happiness is a lifestyle to be at ease. So that's what happiness is to me. And when you think about a lifestyle, that means it's a sum of different habits. And to be at ease means to have tranquility. So that's happiness for me. And to build this lifestyle on a day-to-day basis is one of my priorities because by doing that, it's how I find meaning in my life. And that's why happiness is important to me. The second part of your question is subjectivity is because by building a lifestyle where you prioritize happiness, that makes you do things such as build habits around taking care of your health, taking care of your relationships, and doing work that matters to you. And when you have balance between those three, you have a better longevity. So for instance, one of my goals is to climb the volcano from my hometown for my birthday number 80. So—

oh wow, can I go with you?

I am 41 right now, and I just climbed the volcano probably like 4 months ago. So I know like I need to be in shape in order to do it. So that's why by prioritizing this, I can reach my bucket list goal of going to the volcano on my birthday number 80.

I love it. And part of my goals is to be the 90-year-old that goes skydiving. I think I want to also maybe climb Kilimanjaro, but maybe climbing a volcano would be fun as well. And just having tons of fun, because I think when people think of longevity, they think like, oh, I don't want to be in ill health and sitting on a sofa for another 20 years. That's not interesting. Actually, what I want is to live really well, right? So it's increasing healthspan of the healthy years. So you can do cool things like climbing a volcano at 80, or jumping out of airplanes, or whatever it is that you might want to do, or just even playing tennis or something that may be a little bit more, more normal. Amazing. Mario, you were part of a group of happiness activists who created the United Nations International Day of Happiness, March 20th. Can you talk about how this came to be? And what was the idea behind it?

That was a fun experience. Which started back in the year 2010 when I walked into a bar. And this is not a joke. It's kind of like—

that's the typical joke, right?

In Boston. And then I saw a lot of people who were sitting in this bar were kind of sad. So you have couples on tables that were staring at their cell phones. They weren't talking to each other. So then I asked a friend of mine, like, hey, what do you think makes these people happy? And she said, hey, Mario, you always have Post-it notes, right? Like this one. And you always have Sharpies. So why you don't go and ask them to write anything that makes them happy? So I said, that sounds fun. I went through every single table in that bar Like, hey, my name is Mario, can you please write anything that makes you happy? And hopefully if someone is listening to us right now, they will write. Actually, Claudia, if you can also like write something that makes you happy, that'll be, that'll be fun.

Sure. Oh, I have a long list. How many things should I write?

Oh, as much as you want. If you want one so you can share with your audience.

Okay, so on my list I've got my kids being Being silly, sunshine, the ocean, sunsets, laughing, friends. And that was the beginning of my list that I just did in however many seconds.

Great.

So sunshine, friends, laughing, being silly, because I like to be silly.

That's good.

Yeah, that is important. Yeah, don't take myself very seriously.

That's good. So by asking that simple question, couples start holding hands and, oh wow, are having conversations. So when I saw all that impact of just such a simple thing, my friend turned back to me and said, hey, how about if you collect 3,000 of these Post-it notes and build an art installation? So I said, really fun project. So The following day, I went to the Boston Commons. Again, Boston Common is kind of like the main park in Boston. And I started asking strangers to do the same exercise of what makes you happy and then to take a picture of you. So I collected 3,000 Post-it notes in 2 weeks. So I've had my first art installation. And I'm not an artist, to be fair and to be transparent. But during that installation, people start interacting with that installation. So it was really powerful to see people just writing their message of happiness. So I built a website and I started doing that exercise almost on a weekly basis. Long story short, in a year and a half, that project went to 30 different countries. So we had people doing, asking people on the street on things such as in Tahrir Square during the Arab Spring in Egypt, a woman was doing that project. Asking people what makes them happy, or a 7-year-old girl in Saudi Arabia, or an artist in Kenya. So that was really powerful. So in one of these exercises, I was asking people in the streets of Cambridge, Massachusetts— not the UK, but Massachusetts— and I met, uh, this guy who, his name was Nima, and he was the advisor for the King of Bhutan. So he asked me like, what are you doing this? And I said like, You know, I believe in happiness. So he shared the story about his king, how the King of Bhutan asked people of their, you know, their country of Bhutan, what makes them happy. And that's how they built the Gross National Happiness. That was the very early beginnings of the Gross National Happiness. For those who doesn't know what is the Gross National Happiness is, so every single country measures success based on Gross Domestic Product, GDP. Which is the amount of services and products that a country produces in 12 months, within 1 year. So in Bhutan, they had a different vision. So they believe in happiness and it should be a more holistic measurement. So it's not only like the amount of goods and services, but it's also to take things in place such as the environment, time with family, and others. So this country is only like 1 million habitant population country, but became very famous because they managed their economy based on happiness. So when he shared that example, you know, like I got really excited and that's how he ended up inviting me to the first summit on happiness at the UN back in 2012, April 2012, where ministers from, or secretaries from 65 different countries gathered to talk about how to implement happiness in public policy. So my friend Nima, he said, hey Mario, it will be good if you share your project with this group of, you know, like policymakers. So during that summit, I shared this project that I just shared with you. And at the end of this summit, one of the ideas about what to do together as a group of optimists and happiness activists was to create a day of happiness. So that's how I ended up getting involved with other individuals on the creation of the International Day of Happiness. So I remember partnering with Jamie Elyon, who was probably the main spokesperson, and also with the ambassador for Iraq Hamid Al-Bayati, and he shared with us that his commitment with happiness was very high because when he was part of the regime of Saddam Hussein, he got tortured by Saddam Hussein. And he said like the only thing that helped him to survive and to overcome those challenges was his thoughts about happiness. So that's why he felt in debt with happiness. So he helped us and we convinced 83 countries to sign up to this proposal. So that's how March 20 became the International Day of Happiness under Ban Ki-moon's direction.

At the United Nations. Such an incredible story. How is it celebrated? What is the typical celebration for the International Day of Happiness?

The whole idea is we started like Christmas has a day, December 24th, so we say like, hey, happiness should have a day. I believe a lot in social movements, and social movements need things such as: one, a powerful story; two, you need ways how to connect one member with a movement with another member or with the movement itself; and three, you need a lot of colors or things where you can connect with each other, kind of like it's part of the tribe or it's part of the community, right? So we thought that yellow was kind of like the color of this particular community, so we light up the whole Empire State Building in yellow. I remember Pharrell Williams was there, and also we laid out the Coit Tower here in San Francisco in yellow to do kind of like a cross-pollination happiness yellow illumination. And the tallest building in Bogotá as well to complete the triangle. But other than that, we built a lot of activations on happiness, like in several countries. There is a very great organization in the UK called Action for Happiness, and they became the leaders on creating all these activations during the International Day of Happiness. So yeah, UK was extremely important.

I love it. So Mari, can you tell us a bit about the scientific and the biochemical effect of happiness smiling. We know about serotonin, but can you just dig in a little bit deeper why physiologically also happiness is so important?

Sure. So we call it the happiness dose, like D-O-S-E. D comes from dopamine, O comes from oxytocin, S comes from serotonin, and E comes from endorphins. So those are like the 4 main chemics. That are part of our brain that gave us this feeling of joy or happiness. So dopamine, it's interesting, but can be activated a lot with things such as a text message. That's why kind of like cell phones have been developed to, you know, like to release dopamine in our brains, which is really bad. But it's also like the sense that we have when we finish a task. So that's why, for instance, every morning on my morning rituals, I write, I don't know, like the 3 important things that I want to do during the day. So for instance, today was swimming was one of them. So when I completed swimming, you know, I felt good. So that's dopamine. Oxytocin is more external because it can be activated, for instance, when you hug someone. So when you hug your kids or your partner or your friends, you know, like try to give a meaningful and very present hug. I know you guys are European, but you don't do that as well as we do in Latin America, but hugs are very important. I'm a good hugger.

I'm a good hugger, although I'm from different places, so I don't really know where I'm from. So maybe it's true.

But you know, like, that's as simple as that. So release that. And S comes from serotonin. I think that also is related to more the exterior. So it's feeling, for instance, let's say your daughter just graduated from kindergarten and you felt so proud. You're proud about her, right? So it's not related with you directly. You didn't finish kindergarten, but it's someone else who achieved something and you feel this sense of like, you know, good.

You feel good. Pride, happiness, yeah.

Right. So also like things such as, you know, thoughts of gratitude are super important. And again, it's not only about us, but it's also like about people, either that we know them or we don't, right? But it's something that we can think. So if you kind of like, you know, like close your eyes and like think about like, things that you feel grateful for, or kind of like that side, think of how do you feel proud about others? That's how you can activate it. And the last one is endorphins, which comes from running, walking, working out. So those four are some of the key chemicals that are in our brains that help us to activate happiness. And we can do, we can practice them on a daily basis. Again, I just gave you a list, like dopamine, do make a list of things that you want to do. Oxytocin, just go and hug someone. Serotonin, like, you know, close your eyes and just feel pride for someone that you love. And endorphins, go for a walk or just go do 5 push-ups or something like that.

I'm curious, Mayu, so is your daily 3, 4 things to do, your to-do list based on the dose? So do you have to take a D and an O and an S and an E each day?

Actually, it's funny, but I was just thinking about it. I do kind of like I build habits based on 3 things: on health, relationships, and work. So on a not, not very voluntary basis, I ended up activating the 4 of them. So again, this morning, you know, like dopamine, the first thing that I did this morning was to write things that I want to achieve during the day. On oxytocin, I went for a walk with my wife and we hugged for, I think, like, like 5 minutes or so because we always do morning affirmations. Such as, you know, like, I like this morning was "El universo conspira a nuestro favor," kind of like the universe conspired in our favor, something like that. And just to try to see it, you know, like very meaningfully.

Beautiful.

And yeah, like the S, we always do with my wife also, like, what are the 3 things that you feel grateful for every morning? And then there are things, I went swimming. So yes. So yes.

Wow. You got your daily dose. I love it. Of happiness. You walk the talk. I love it, Mario. Amazing. I hear that you, obviously we know that you love to spread happiness, but that it also sometimes involves wearing costumes. Can you talk about a fun story I hear you have on wearing a costume at an important work event?

Yeah. So I, yes, I, and in fact I have a kind of like a Ninja Turtle next to me. See, his name is Is my friend. So I, I do love costumes. I believe in a world where whimsy and imagination are the norm, or I dream with a world where whimsy and imagination are the norm. So costumes is a funny manifestation of that. When the pandemic started, the company that I used to work with, Coursera, which is an online education startup, we, as many companies, we went to work online, right? So we all started working remote from our homes and kind of like it's hard to maintain the culture from a place that now that is remote work, right? So I remember just missing that, you know, like that culture of like whimsy that Coursera had and, you know, it was fun and it was quirky and So we had all-hands meetings or town hall meetings twice per month with the whole company. So as a joke, you know, one day I started putting— actually, actually, I always have here kind of like I have my Mario hat, right? Because my name is Claudio. So I came out like that and then I turned and I found a mustache. So I became kind of like Mario, right?

You're just missing the wheel.

Yeah, so then I got a lot of like internal messages like, oh my God, that's really fun. You should kind of like have another costume next day and next town hall. So I did that and I had ended up having a different costume and then starting feeling all this kind of like, you know, like the culture that we have at Coursera. So I ended up having 40, More than 40 costumes. Yeah.

So you're ready for Carnival at a drop of a hat. You can—

Yeah. No, it's funny because actually, okay, I have a picture here. So it became a thing at Coursera. So then, you know, like we had our own Slack channel and people were, you know, like sending me ideas about what costumes should I wear. So the office in India, one day they say, hey, you know, like we have Gandhi Day. It will be very meaningful if you dress up like Gandhi. So I shaved my head and I became Gandhi. And just by doing that, then I started, you know, like having emails from coworkers that I never knew. They say like, hey, you know, the favorite part for town halls is your costumes because I ended up speaking for 5 minutes to 1,000 people, right, in a different costume. Very serious comments or very serious questions. But people used to come with their kids just to watch kind of like what Mario was gonna dress up like that day. So that became like kind of like a family tradition. So my wife helped me to, you know, like to do their makeup, or, and my mom was always like, what's gonna be the costume for next week? So it became a thing. And I think like that helped us to navigate the pandemic in a more whimsical way.

How amazing, Mario, to be such a spreader of joy. I mean, just think of the ripple effect that you had the 1,000 people on the call, but then their families were involved. They were bringing their kids.

Kids.

I mean, you became like the highlight from the company town hall to check out which outfit you would do. So I mean, really, hats off to you, Carnival. Hats off to you for spreading so much happiness and joy and just making light of it, I think, as well. And I think the more people who wouldn't take themselves, let's say, so seriously and be able to have a bit more fun, I think we would all be laughing a lot, much more of the time as well. So I love your attitude. Mario, where did this all— when did all this joy, I should say, start? Were you the happiest baby in Colombia? Maybe you can talk a little bit about your childhood and growing up beside a volcano in Colombia and your journey to where you are now, and if there were any particular learnings or insights that most impacted you along the way.

One of my mentors— I mean, sorry for what I'm going to say, I'm going to curse, but, uh, He used to say that even pretty flowers grow from shit, right? So I think a lot of difficult moments built this character that is me, right? But as you said, I come from a small town in Colombia called Pasto, and my mom was always very kind of work-oriented. My dad was more, you know, like the loving guy that used to walk on the street and everyone hugged him and just loved him. So I have like this weird combination of, you know, like hustling, working really hard towards your goal with this, you know, heart with legs that always, you know, walks around and just smiles. And I think that's as a result, it's me. So I developed this huge entrepreneurial drive thanks to my mom and this and her love to do good for the world. So she used to work with unprivileged kids and I think she was very purpose woman still. And my dad was just mostly kind of like, be silly and just make fun of yourself and just, you know, just enjoy life. So I think that's part of me. I moved to Bogotá when I was 16. I went to do my college there. Against all the different odds and funny things, I moved to the US in 2004 where I didn't speak English at all, didn't have any money, and didn't know anyone. And I'm really good at making friends, so I ended up making friends and they persuaded me to apply to Columbia University. And then I ended up working on Wall Street until the financial crisis happened. Then I moved to Boston. And in that moment, it was 2009, and I started building one of the happiness projects that I just was mentioning earlier. Because I thought, especially after the economic crisis, I say like, hey, it's important to find purpose. I remember staring at the buildings in Wall Street saying, hey, How is it possible that all these larger organizations are only related to either finance or consulting or oil or stuff like that? When would be the day where an organization that is devoted to do good for the world will be also financially important? So I had that thought back in 2008, and just 5 months before, Coursera, where the company that I used to work, which again, the main mission of Coursera was to democratize education, which means to make education from places such as Stanford, Yale, Columbia University, and so on, available to anyone, went public. So that was a really powerful moment. I said, you know, like it took me probably like 12 years to get there, but it was a really good sign of like the world is changing and it's possible to, you know, like to live well by doing good.

I love that. And I love your vision of having the most successful or a very successful company that is just doing good all day, every day, and that to be one of the major global leaders. So maybe in our lifetime, what do you think? How long is it going to take for that to happen?

Now with access of technology that we all have, I believe it's going to happen sooner. I mean, again, Coursera was a B Corp, which is this standard in the US of companies that are have like really strong social standards and that went public. So, and that already happened. And as well as Coursera, there are many companies that are doing financially super well with a very social mission. So I believe access to technology is the game changer. Technology and the internet became the game changer to make this ideas of doing good, living well by doing good.

Let's talk about habit building. You touched on it before. How you structure your day and certain habits for success and for happiness. Can you talk a bit about that?

Sure. I think I have like some good examples here. So, okay, I build my weeks every week based on 3 things. Again, at the beginning I mentioned that it's for me, happiness is a lifestyle to be at ease. A lifestyle means a bunch of habits. So the habits that I build on a weekly basis are 3. One are habits around health, which means mind, body, and food. The second one is relationships, which means the first one is relationship with myself, the second one with my partner, and the third one with friends and family. And the last one with work. First one is our 9 to 5, which is our main job. The second one is our side projects, and the last one is to learn. So every Sunday at the end of the day, my wife, Lara, and I, we sit for probably 30 minutes and we plan the whole week around these 3 buckets: health, relationships, and work. So let me show you, like, this is, for instance, how my schedule looks like. So it's very key to be super intentional because if you're not intentional with the things that matter to you, it's really hard that they're going to happen. So in order to be intentional, the system that helps me is to place activities on my Google Calendar because I know if they're in my calendar, it's very likely that it's going to happen. So with Lara, we do like, as you see, like in this picture here, we put it in a, on the living room, on a calendar that we have, and then we put it on their Google Calendar. So green is health. So you can see like the different things that I have in green, such as meditation, running, biking, and so on, relationships. So we have like a biweekly date with my wife. Yes, we live together and so on, but we do space for like really, really meaningful connection. Or we also have, okay, this week we're going to spend time with friends and work, you know, it's also important. That's how I build habits on a weekly basis. And when I start asking myself about which habits should I build is, you know, like basically things that really matter to me is a combination between the things that matter to me with the things that I can control. And in the middle is where I am really focused. I focus on because again, probably like 99% or 98% of things that happen to me are totally outside of my control. So being aware of that is really important. So I really focus on things that matter to me and I can control. So as a result, for instance, you know, like during the pandemic about this habit building and health, I challenge myself with my wife to walk 10,000 steps per day. So we have our Garmin, you know, watch or any watch can Got my Apple Watch.

Yeah, watch.

So we started doing the 10,000 steps that help us to connect more, to spend more time together, but also to be away from your cell phones or computers. And thanks to that, some days I was running out of my 10,000 steps, so I needed to run. And I hated running, but I started running, and then I fell in love with running. So then I started running half marathons and so on.

Wow.

So that's like whole compound effect, right? 10,000 steps, 5,000 steps can sound a lot, but maybe it's not a lot. But thanks to that, you can like start building beautiful habits. So yeah, so I think kind of like examples like the 10,000 steps on health and how impactful is the compound effect. I think I'm like, that's super important.

I love that. And I think it's for people to also realize it's a springboard, right? Because people think, well, you know, I'm never going to run a marathon, but it's like, no, you don't need run a marathon if you're mainly sedentary. You know, start with 10,000, you know, even 1,000 steps, 5,000, then you're 10,000, and you build up the strength, you build up the momentum, and then all of a sudden the half marathon is possible. And then, you know, who knows, you might even go for the marathon, and at 80 years old you're climbing a volcano, right? So it's all over the path, and it becomes more and more realistic, and you're like, you know what, actually I can do it. And it's exciting because you're achieving these really big goals that you previously never thought possible. So very, very cool. Mario, you celebrated your 40th birthday last year, and I heard you got an incredible gift from your wife. Can you tell us a bit more about that?

Yeah, she surprised me a lot. So I was, uh, I don't know, it's kind of like, I don't know if it's called like the midlife crisis or so, but I was thinking a lot about, hey, turning 40, my goodness. So I remember that I even did a presentation to my board of directors. I always have like a personal board of directors. So I used 4 slides. Each slide, it was for every single decade in my life. So I had like from 0 to 10, 10 to 20, 20 to 30, and so on. So I had key learnings, so highlights and lowlights for each decade actually. And then I was kind of like, wow, I was telling Laura, Hey, it's crazy to think that, you know, like, uh, like my life can be summarized in 4 slides. So probably I only have 4 more slides and that's it, you know, I'm out. So anyways, I was just like doing all this introspection exercise and so on, and suddenly Laura came out on my birthday day with this beautiful song called Cuy de Corazón Grande. Cuy is a guinea pig, you know, it's, uh, like this guy. It's kind of like it's the main animal in my hometown, and like a lot of friends call me Cuy. So she partnered with another good friend of mine who's a fantastic musician, Juan Andrés Ospina, and they wrote this beautiful song that summarizes my, my life in a song. And instead of like 4 slides, summarize my life in 4 minutes or 3 minutes.

Yeah, but I think, I mean, it's now there for eternity, right? This beautiful song about your life. So that's, that's really beautiful.

That's what I told my friend, he made me immortal.

Immortal, exactly. In 200 years, they're going to be wondering, who is this Mario? All right, well, you're already famous with your International Day of Happiness and Spread of Happiness, so let's see what the next years will bring you.

No, plus the sounds of the song are amazing because they're really typical from my hometown. Uh, so I cry a lot when I hear that song. I, I probably cried like 25 times and Actually, my birthday was only— my 41st birthday was only like 2-3 weeks ago, and I went with my family. So we blast— we play that song and we blast that song and we dance that song with my parents and my in-laws like many times. So that was really fun.

Oh, you made it back down to Colombia?

Yeah, it was my bucket list to get to put together my in-laws and my parents after the pandemic, and that was Very powerful, very special.

And have your special song playing as well. How beautiful, how really nice. I'd love to jump into a few rapid-fire questions, Mario. Thinking of the word successful, who is the first person who comes to mind and why?

I have one of my friends and mentors, his name is Juan Pablo Calderón. We call him Dumba. For me and for my wife, we believe success is to live life on your own terms. So this guy, Dumba, he's brilliant. I mean, he has— I mean, from the science point of view, he has a PhD, blah blah blah. But then he also found out how to, you know, like very early to discover like cryptocurrencies, and he has been doing great on that field. But most importantly, he lives life in a very simple way in the middle of nature in Colombia, and his daily or weekly projects are things such as I'm going to harvest like 1,000 trees. So, uh, that's what he did, like with his own hands he planted 1,000 trees with an indigenous community. Or so those are kind of like his kinds of projects. And he writes every day poetry and so on. And he has a beautiful heart. So it's this beautiful combination between heart, brain, and being very present. So, uh, yeah, that's to live your life in your own terms.

I love the combination of the cryptocurrency. So in essence, because of, I guess, financial markets are, you know, fiat and crypto, right? But then the contrast with the pure nature and poetry. It's so interesting, but yet makes total sense, I think, as well. And then just him finding his peace and harmony as well. So I like your definition of success. And I completely agree with you, the ability to say no to the things you want to say no to and have time for the things that really matter to you. So thank you for sharing that. Mario, do you have any particular morning routine to start your day as a success? I mean, you mentioned some of the things you do with your wife. Are there any other particulars that you do every day?

Oh, for me, mornings are the most important part of my day, the one that I love the most, because it's kind of like Mario time. And I'm truly convinced that, uh, if I'm able to do this 2-3 hours of morning routines, I will be way more effective at work and everything that I have to do. So I woke up at 6:30, or I tried to wake up at 6:30. So I meditate for 30-40 minutes. Actually, I just came out of Vipassana, like this 10-day silent retreat. It gives you this really powerful technique. And I would—

let's jump into that in a minute. I'd love to hear more, but Keep going. Yeah. Yeah.

So meditation is the first thing that we do. Then we go for a little walk with Laura. We live next to a mountain, so we go there for another 20 minutes. During our walk to the mountain, we don't talk about work. We just talk about things that we feel grateful for. We do one daily affirmation, 1 to 3 daily affirmations. On our way back, I start movement. So I either go running or swimming or biking or anything. And then I just prepare an amazing breakfast and I have my beautiful coffee. So I do drip coffee, which takes me like 12 minutes, but I love it. So yeah, those are my mornings.

Colombian coffee, I'm sure, right? What's your favorite coffee?

It could be like Colombia or Guatemala or Ethiopia. I like that, like the very fruity coffee. The funny story is The coffee that we consume in Colombia is crappy coffee. The coffee that we send outside of Colombia is good coffee.

Sadly, in many countries it's like this. Yes, exactly, because they pay a premium for it, unfortunately, right? I'd love to jump into the retreat you just did, the meditation, the silent retreat. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

It was a 10-day silent retreat. Silent retreat means no talking, at all. I mean, no cell phone, no reading, no writing, none of that. It's kind of like it's a very powerful detox because we are hyper, hyper connected right now, right? And it's basically to learn a technique called vipassana, which doesn't have to do anything with religion. It's mostly a technique, but it's very powerful. And it's also donation-based, so the whole business model is really beautiful. At the end, you just pay what you feel that you want to contribute so someone else can do the retreat after you. In a nutshell, it was kind of like an Ironman, but for meditation. It's intense. It's not— I mean, if you go there, don't think that you're going to a spa or relax. No, it's intense.

So how do you prepare for it? What information do they actually give you to prepare for it? I mean, I actually, I've never done something like that. I know a few people who have. I'd love to just dig into your experience a little bit, sort of your expectations before you went, and then how that journey during the 10 days was, and then what were your biggest ahas and learnings from those 10 days?

So I was told to prepare. I didn't need any preparation, to be fair. You know, I was told like, hey, you know, if you're going to meditate for 11 hours per day, you should start meditating at least for like 30 minutes, and I didn't. So again, like the physical part was intense because again, you're sitting meditating for such a long period of time, which I'm not used to. I think nobody's used to, unless you are yogi or a big meditator. But I think it's available to anyone, you know, you don't need to be, you don't need to have like any level of expertise, you don't need to be, you know, like a particular age or gender. No, it's pretty open to everyone. What did I learn? So again, like, this technique is— meditation technique is really powerful. So when I left, I was like, oh, I feel like, you know, good, but, you know, I don't know. But days or weeks later, actually, now that I was visiting my parents, at the end of my visit, my mom came to me and said like, hey, you were really tolerant this time and you were really patient this time. Thank you so much for being tolerant and very present and loving. And I was kind of like, okay, that was the result of vipassana, right? Kind of like things that used to, you know, like make you react really strongly before, now it's a bit different. So I think that was a beautiful gift.

That's amazing. Yeah. And did you say you didn't have any meditation practice before jumping into 10 days? Vipassana?

Well, I mean, I have kind of like, you know, like the regular Headspace that you go once in a while, or, you know, a timer, or kind of like 5 minutes, 10 minutes, but not a very disciplined practice of, you know, like 1 hour per day or something.

Then that's really huge. And is this something you think you would continue? I mean, just to keep the benefits, are you kind of addicted to it now?

Not addicted, but, uh, it definitely, it grounds me a lot. So if I sit for an hour to meditate or for 30 minutes, my day is different. I feel it. And it's a technique that is based on listening what you feel instead of what you think. It's not kind of like guided meditation, it's just like you and your feelings and just learn to feel. Because we as humans, we were trained to think from our brain So we rationalize every single thing, right? From like, oh, that's green, that's blue, or 1 1 2. But no, we haven't been trained on feeling. So when you're like, oh, this is a feeling, okay, you know, and it's not good, it's not bad, it's just exactly—

and not judging it as well. And it's an area I find really interesting. I've been studying a lot as well. I've done different types of meditation, also TM meditation, also like, you know, sitting for an hour. I've never done 11 hours straight. But, you know, I think sitting for an hour, it's sort of after the 35, 40 minutes when, you know, the real magic happens, right? That's when you get into this kind of attuned state. And it's just, it's so powerful, as you said yourself, what your mother commented, the sense of being more intuitive, the presence. Dr. Mark Atkinson has a great expression that you're not in the cave, the prefrontal cortex, you're actually in the ocean. And so the body is just so wise that there's so much knowing there. So yeah, it's an area I find really fascinating and I'm also on my journey to discovering more and more. So thank you for sharing that. Mario, is there an unusual habit or absurd thing that you love?

Hmm. Nature. Going to the mountain is so powerful. Like when I was, I don't know, like 12 years old, I remember this story that my mom shares that that I went to my mom and said like, hey mom, stop paying my high school because I lost everything. I should not go back to school. And then my mom said, how about if you go to your mountain with your dogs and when you come back we'll make a decision? I said like, yeah, let's do it. So I went to the mountain and that was kind of like, since I, again, since I've been 12 years old, you know, like I go to the mountain, it grounds me and it teaches me, and then I come back with a different mood. So at least I really try to go to the mountain, I don't know, like 3 times per week at least. And when I have like this, I don't know, very— when I'm feeling lost or I don't know, like overreacting or so on, I just go to the mountain. So yes, going to the mountain or going to nature is a habit that grounds me and I love.

It's a big thing. Yeah, exactly. And to ground and also the movement, right? So you're releasing hormones and things as well. So on many fronts. Mario, how has a failure or an apparent failure set you up for later success? And do you have a favorite failure of yours?

Many. A story, it was December 24, 2004. I was parking cars in Boston. And a lot of friends were trying to persuade me to apply to a master's program at Columbia University. And I thought, my self-beliefs was like, hey, you know what, this is for rich people, this is for smart people, that's not for me. So I keep parking cars, and when I was parking cars that day, December 24th, a car came to the restaurant that I was parking cars at, doing the valet, and they had a sticker on the back that said Columbia University. So I always tend to share my dreams with a stranger, so I told the driver, hey, my dream is to study in that university. So he looked at me and said, hmm, my daughter is going to Columbia University. I don't think you can make it. So in that particular moment, I, I said, what? I think I can do it. So that day I built the confidence to really put serious on learning English and to apply to the school and so on. So I applied and a few months later I got accepted. So I found the same guy probably like 4 months later or 5 months later in the same restaurant because I was keep parking cars there. And when I saw him, I thanked him because I told him, if you weren't told me that I wasn't able to get into this university, I wouldn't build the confidence to do it. So thank you so much. So that's a good story that I remember about like the power of no and how a failure can, you know, like basically give you lots of leverage, but I could easily, you know, have taken them such as, "She's right, that's not for me," and just, you know, leave, but I mean, don't pursue my dreams. But I'm glad that I had a different attitude.

Oh yeah, exactly. And that gave you the motivation. And two questions from that. One is, why Columbia? Why was that? And when you were in Boston, right, there's Harvard, there's amazing universities in Boston as well. One is, I guess, to understand why was Columbia so fascinating or why were you focused on that? And then two, what did the guy say when you told him that you would apply and actually got in? And thank you for telling me I wouldn't get in because now I got in. What was his reaction?

So why Columbia? It was, uh, I was very interested in the energy markets back then, and I found this program at Columbia that combined energy markets with policymaking, which was two of the things that were close to my heart. And also because he was based in New York and I was very curious about New York City. And what this guy said, he was speechless. He was like, I'm sorry.

So no peace to say thank you. Don't, don't be sorry.

Yeah, no, no, I was, you know, really casual, like, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Yeah, really cool. Do you have a favorite quote or piece of advice received that was a real game changer for you?

Yes, the obstacle is the way. That's a good quote. I think it was coined by Marcus Aurelius, the emperor of Rome. So what stands in the way becomes the way. So I believe that's a good quote that I'd like to remember because we'll find obstacles in every single aspect of our lives, in our relationship with our partners, in our work, When we're trying to develop any habits, you know, you want to go for a run and then it's raining and you're like, ah, okay, I'll do it tomorrow or anything, right? So I believe like the obstacle is the way. So whatever stands in the way becomes the way. So I think that's a good reminder.

The obstacle is the way. I love that quote. It's also, you know, it's facing the fear and going through it. And, you know, Joseph Campbell's work, I'm sure you know, the hero's journey. You know, pushing through is exactly, and I think even Tony Robbins has a thing that the biggest challenge you're facing is actually the most important one. That's the thing you need to focus on, the one thing and not just push it aside. So it's Marcus Aurelius summed it up very nicely with the obstacle is the way. I like that. Mario, in the last 5 years, what new belief, behavior, or habit has most improved your life?

Habit that has improved my life. I would say that 10,000 steps. It could be, you know, like, could be 5,000 steps, but that helps me to go out and walk, and that walk brings me to nature or brings me to conversations or brings me to reflection or brings me to important things.

Just the 10,000 steps, I like that, because now you said you're running half marathons because of the 10,000 steps, is that right? One step that started and then 10,000 and now marathons. I love it. Let's talk about mental health, Mario. You've now made a move on to a new startup in the mental health space. Can you talk about your view, and especially coming out of COVID where I think honestly, that's the biggest pandemic we're going to have and are having is mental health issues that so many people will and are suffering from. Can you talk about your experience with mental health coming out of COVID and why you decided to do a startup in this space?

Sure. So mental health, I believe right now we're in the mental pandemic. The pandemic basically accelerated the impact of mental health around the world. So we can see dramatic numbers such as 800 million people committing suicide per year, like 300 million people suffering of severe depression in the world. In Latin America, the consumption of antidepressants have tripled down. So there's a lot of very dramatic impact of mental health. And I believe the problem is not going away. The problem is just getting bigger. So you can see also different conversations on politics about it, on media. So there was the record number of articles in media about mental health in history happened just like 2 months ago. But also you can see market reactions. So in the first quarter of this year, like $900 million were invested in newly startups on mental health. So I believe kind of like definitely we're in the mental pandemic. And it's time, I believe, for governments, companies, and universities, organizations, and individuals to really, really, really pay attention to mental health. But even if the size of the problem is as big as I just described, one of the very challenging parts is it's really hard to talk about mental health. It's hard to talk about it with your family, with your friends, with your coworkers. So the level of stigma is very high, and breaking that stigma is something that is really challenging. So yeah, in a nutshell, I believe it's a big challenge that the world is facing right now, and it's a cultural time right now just to do something about it. But on the bright side, I also believe that opened up lots of conversations, and I believe, you know, like, it's crazy to think, Claudia, that there is no one word that defines that you're healthy on mental health or you're Neither in English or Spanish. If I ask you, hey Claudia, are you healthy? You say yes, but you're referring to your physical health, not to your mental health. I think it doesn't have any particular demographic or geography or anything. It basically affects all of us. It's a good challenge, but I see a lot of hope there. People are paying attention most to their mental health.

That's amazing.

Are you able to talk already about what you're planning on doing with your new startup in this space?

Yes. So that's a beautiful problem or beautiful challenge to solve. And I want to be able to create a platform that can democratize the access of mental health, starting in Hispanic America or in Latin America, and then moving across other geographies. So right now, I left my last job at Coursera like 3 months ago, and We are in our journey to build a model that can help us to democratize mental health access. As well as we did at Coursera with education, I want to do it now with mental health. So putting together media, because I believe, again, stigma is a big challenge. So I believe media is a big tool, a powerful tool to influence behaviors. And that's combining really good art and design. And on the other hand, using technology by combining science and engineering to be there to build a good solution. So hopefully in a couple of months, I can, you know, like share this platform with you, Claudia, and with your audience, and just to see hopefully that will help you or any of your audience.

I would love that, and such a worthy cause and so important as well. And I think to your point around stigma, and especially depending on which country and culture, but I really feel it's so important for people to talk about it. I mean, I had phases also with postnatal depression and things like that as well. And I think it's very much like you, you know, I grew up with, you know, you have to put on a brave face and you don't talk about things. And I think that the more you open up, the more other people realize it's actually okay to talk about it. And by talking about it, in essence, you know, a problem shared is a problem solved. So the more that you make it okay to talk about it, the more help I can do. And I could imagine in Latin America that this might be carrying more stigma maybe than in other places. So you have maybe a bigger challenge than other places to discuss it, but are you using some of the strategies and tools that you've seen in the US or how is your strategy on helping? You said using media and is it courses or how are you going to structure this?

Yeah, on the media side, it's definitely using courses, but it's also used creating really good content on topics such as how to manage a panic attack or what is depression or how can you prevent depression or How can you deal with OCD or how can you build habits to do X, Y, and Z? So that's part of the content side. So it's about like body, mind, and soul. And on the other side, we're going to be developing tools to address some of those challenges.

Really exciting. Thank you for sharing that. And please let us know when it's launched. I would love to share that also in my community, my audience as well. What, in your view, separates a good leader from a great one, Mario?

Hmm. I think a great leader is someone who can— I mean, for me, a leader is just like someone that empowers other people to do what they're good at. So part of it is just to identify what are like those superpowers that people have. And somehow to give them the confidence and guidance for them to use those superpowers for— to support any cause that is greater than them. So it's basically to unleash these superpowers or to unleash these beautiful skills and powers that people have. So I think that that's a leader, someone who empowers others to achieve like a better version of themselves.

I agree. Before we finish up, Maya, a few rapid-fire questions. What has been your most exciting purchase in the last 6 to 12 months? I love specifics— brands, where you bought it.

6 to 12 months. Okay, I'm like, I'm like turning now. Okay, so I think kind of like maybe my I mean, this is like really kind of like not the best, but maybe kind of like my iPad because now I'm like taking lots of notes here and I'm drawing and I'm constantly, you know, like I used to do that on notebooks, which is great, but I ended up losing all those notebooks and not having track of like the ideas, pages, and so on. So I've been using this app called Notability and it's amazing just kind of like to do drawings, to grab ideas, to take notes. I think Notability, probably instead of like the iPad, Notability has been the best purchase that I have done over the past 6 months.

Thank you, because I haven't tried that yet, which I must do. So I'm going to try that part. Thank you for sharing. Do you have any particular books, documentaries, or movies that you feel people must watch?

Books? Yes, part of my morning rituals, I read the Daily Stoic. By Ryan Holiday. So it has 65 daily meditations, and again, it's one page. It's just like sometimes it's only like one paragraph. Like, for me, Stoicism is something that is a very powerful tool, and it's a philosophy that is really pragmatic. So I love the practicity of it. So each meditation, you know, like gives you one specific reflection for one day, and it will take you only like 5 minutes. But I think I like that, so powerful. So that's the book that I would suggest. And in terms of like movies, one of my favorite movies is Big Fish with Ewan McGregor. And it's about—

Big Fish?

Yeah, it's about a relationship of like dad and son and just, you know, like sharing stories about life in a very whimsical way. And again, I believe in a world where whimsy and imagination are the norm. So that movie kind of like represents that.

I love it. In the last 5 years, what have you become better at saying no to, like invitations or distractions, and what realizations and/or approaches have helped?

It's hard to say no for me. I have found myself as a, you know, like to have a lot of like people-pleasing challenges. So it's hard for me to say no, but I've been start saying no to things that I don't feel good. I mean, it's not to please people, but if I'm not like really feeling it, I can just say no. And the realizations that I have from those actions are that, uh, you know, we should be guardians of our time. And when we guard our time, it's good because time is the most important asset that we have. I mean, you can buy anything, but you cannot buy time.

Yes, exactly. Such wise words. Mario, metaphorically speaking, if you could get a message out to 1 billion people, say by writing in the sky, and a billion people could read it, what would it say?

And why? What makes you happy? It will be a question.

Perfect.

And it's the question that I asked to 200,000 people. So if I can do like the billion, yeah.

What makes you happy?

I love it. Because I believe people should prioritize that, things that makes them happy or, you know, things that matter to them. But I don't think nobody will say like, for me, it really matters to have a Ferrari or to be a big CEO, right?

I agree. Yeah. Happiness. And that's so much more valuable if you can carry that within you every day. And what a game changer and life changer that is. Mario, what advice would you give a smart driven high school student about to enter their next phase of life, be it college or work, what advice would you also recommend they should ignore?

Advice I should give is probably like read about Stoicism. That's a good tool to have. It will help them in their relationships with their families, with their partners, but we also at the work, but also at life, and it's all about like to seek virtue and to seek meaning in our life. So I would say like read Stoicism, it's probably like a good advice, something that I would have loved to find earlier in my life. Um, and they ignored the naysayers, you know, there always are going to be naysayers, there always are going to be bullies, they're always going to be divas, they're always going to be people that tell them that I don't know. So ignore them, you know, like take no as a powerful force, as a leverage, not as something bad.

I agree. And also I see no as a yes later on. So if you really want it, you just come back at a better time in a maybe reframed way. And often it turns out into a yes. So I agree. Mario, where can people learn more about what you're up to on social media or websites? And what would you like to share with people?

I think my personal site, which I don't update often, it's called mariochamorro.co. I think that's one.

So it's M-A-R-I-O and then C-H-A-M-O-R-R-O dot co.

Yeah, and the other one is, I guess, my Instagram is mariochamorro. I intentionally deleted Instagram 2 weeks ago and It's giving me much more time. Again, talking about like, you know, be guardians of our time. But when I'm back, I guess I post things there.

Do you have any final ask, recommendation, or parting thoughts for my audience, Mario?

Just, you know, I mean, remember like the little graphic that I shared about where you can start, you know, like things that matter to you. With things that are under your control. And in the middle is where you should focus. I mean, things that are under your control plus things that matter to you.

Thank you so much, Mario, for the time, the inspiration, the incredible work that you're doing, sharing that with us and the world. I really, really appreciate you coming on today. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Claudia.

Appreciate it. Hey everyone, it's Claudia von Boeselager here. Before you take off, I hope you enjoyed the episode and learned as much as I did. If so, please hit subscribe so you don't miss out on our next episodes. I would also love to hear what you thought, be it your favorite part, quote, or other feedback from the episode. So please leave a written review on Apple Podcasts or on social media. And if you think this episode will help someone in your own life, share it with them. Together we can change our own lives and the lives around us for the better. Until next week, goodbye, farewell, and choose to live well.