The Biology of Hunger Nobody Explains With Sarah Kennedy Of Calocurb

They took 300 biopsies from right— endoscopy and colonoscopy— from right down the gastrointestinal tract and actually showed we have taste receptors right down our gastrointestinal tract. So not just on our tongue, we have 25 on our tongue, but they go right down through our gastro. And these are called TAS2R, but they're bitter taste receptors. And at different locations in the gastrointestinal tract, they release different hormones. So in the stomach, if activated, they release the hunger hormone because they're to stimulate hunger or to get you ready to eat. But if you go past the stomach into the upper gut, they stimulate CCK, GLP-1, and PYY. So 3 of the very powerful appetite-suppressing hormones.

Hey there, I'm Claudia von Boeselager, a former investment banker turned entrepreneur, longevity coach, biohacker, and mother of 2. Once burnt out and overwhelmed with chronic health issues, I've transformed my life and helped thousands of people do the same. I've even reduced my biological age by 17 years. Yes, I'm 26 again. Now I'm here to share the tools, strategies, and inspiration to help you live healthier, happier, and longer. On this podcast, I interview world-leading experts in health, biohacking, mindset, and performance. And share personal stories and learnings to bring you the latest insights and tips. Think of this as your go-to space for real talk about all things health and optimizing your life. Ready to unlock your best self? Let's dive in. This is the Longevity and Lifestyle Podcast.

My guest today is Sarah Kennedy, founder and CEO of Kalocurb Limited, a revolutionary weight management product developed after 15 years and $30 million of New Zealand government-backed science. Today, Calocurb is sold in 5 international markets and continues to grow rapidly across channels and geographies. Before launching Calocurb, Sarah held several senior roles in Fonterra, including Vice President International Farming based in China, Managing Director of Dairy Nutrition, and Managing Director of RDI, Fonterra's chain of rural retail stores. Prior to joining Fonterra in 2011, she spent over 20 years in dietary and animal nutrition, including 10 years as a managing director of Healthreze Vitaco New Zealand Limited, where she tripled company revenue and oversaw the merger of Healthreze and NutraLife to form Vitaco, the third largest health and wellbeing company in Australasia. Originally trained as a veterinarian, Sarah's held a variety of senior executive positions across agribusiness and the food industry. In 2009, 2010, she completed the Sloan Fellowship Program in Global Leadership and Innovation at MIT, and she has served on numerous boards spanning government, private, philanthropic, and publicly listed New Zealand companies.

Today we're going to dig into the exciting world of understanding hunger, GLP-1, and alternatives, and all good things around this miracle molecule. So please enjoy. Sarah, welcome to the Longevity and Lifestyle Podcast. I'm so excited to have you on today's show.

Thank you, Claudia von Boeselager. I'm excited to be on.

So you've had such a fascinating career, Sarah, from veterinarian to corporate executive to CEO of Kalocurb. What's inspired you to move into the world of human nutrition and ultimately launch Kalocurb?

Oh, look, wonderful question. I get asked a lot. Interesting enough, veterinarian, or being a veterinarian, of course you learn far more about nutrition than a doctor does, because if you think about it, animals, particularly production animals, everything is nutrition. So, so much of your training is in nutrition. Oh, I practiced for about 5 years and then specialized in animal nutrition. And in fact, firstly of all, I actually specialized in aquaculture. So I did salmon and shrimps up in French Polynesia, uh, but I also did, um, the underwater SeaWorld in New Zealand. So I was feeding sharks and everything like that.

Amazing.

Um, I had, uh, amazing amount of fun and then just slowly got into more animals. And then when I took over as CEO, of the largest, very iconic health brand in New Zealand, obviously moved into more human nutrition and really have stayed in that ever since. But callicurb was presented to me, or the research was presented to me in 2017. And at that stage, it was just the extract. And it was brought to me and they said, this is when I say they, the New Zealand government does all primary research in New Zealand. $20 million at this stage, and they get it to a stage where they think, oh, this could be commercialized. So then the business managers take over and they brought this product and I was completely, and I still say it, blown away. I had never seen, well, it wasn't even a product, it was an extract that had that much science in this larger category that we could own from, literally from source to shelf. So, you know, a bit like the man that liked it and he bought the company, I was a bit the same. I'm like, I I love it. I want it. And so in doing that, you know, I raised the money, I formed a team, and that's when we launched CalaKerb in 2018.

I'm excited to dive into all the science, but before we dive into the science, can you share a bit about how the remarkable foundation, like how the New Zealand government does that research? Is that like typical that they look at certain initiatives and they spend $20, $30 million in research and then look to bring things to market? I'm just curious to understand.

Yeah, it's interesting. And you're not wrong saying, because Australia has a similar system, they're called Crown Research Institute, and they're literally owned by the government and they're funded by the government. And I suppose it's just natural for us, but you think about it, primary research doesn't happen, particularly in smaller countries, because we don't have large pharmaceutical companies. They can spend billions. But of course, smaller companies can't. So it's a way of creating science within our ecosystem. All of these, my, uh, kohlrabi was developed by, um, a research institute called Plant and Food Research. And they have about 600 scientists and they have about 7 locations over New Zealand. And obviously by their name, Plant, they are very plant. So they have bred all the kiwi fruit. And in fact, Where we come from, Kalicope comes from a specific hop extract. They'd actually bred all of the hops in New Zealand. So, so this is what, so in 2010, a group of, I always say a group of very talented scientists, and they were talented, had a hypothesis that they would find a natural extract that suppressed appetite. Now, if you think about it, this was way, way, way before Ozempic and Wegovy and Zepbound. So they, they had this and they put it in the grant paper was called Foods for Appetite Control. And they put this in and got a $20 million grant back, which was, you know, it's still a healthy grant. And so they got that back and they did. Now, why did they think they'd find that? Some of it was historical. Interesting enough, in times of, in the Scottish Highlands, in times of famine, Scottish people chewed very, very bitter heath berries to suppress appetite. It's actually been said that Charles II gave it to his mistresses to get them to lose weight. I mean, isn't that typical? He probably should have taken it himself. And in the Kalahari Desert, tribesmen chew very, very bitter cactus before they go out hunting. And in fact, that is the basis of hoodia. So they knew bitter suppressed appetite. And I'll say a little bit more about that because that's an evolutionary adaptation of humans. So they had this hypothesis that they would find this. They first of all, they mapped which was fascinating to me. They took 300 biopsies from right endoscopy and colonoscopy from right down the gastrointestinal tract and actually showed we have taste receptors right down our gastrointestinal tract. So not just on our tongue, we have 25 on our tongue, but they go right down through our gastro and these are called TAS2R, but they're bitter taste receptors and at different locations in the gastrointestinal tract, they release different hormones. So in the stomach, if activated, they release ghrelin, the hunger hormone, which is why we have a lot of these aperitifs, as you know, because they're to stimulate hunger or to get you ready to eat. But if you go past the stomach into the upper duodenum or upper gut, they stimulate CCK, GLP-1 and PYY. So 3 of the very powerful appetite-suppressing hormones. So why does our body do this? Well, it's this defense mechanism. It's a secondary defense mechanism against you potentially eating something poisonous. So bitter was poisonous, so often associated. So if you eat something very bitter on your tongue, you'll spit it out. If it goes to your stomach, you'll release ghrelin because it's saying to you, eat more. To try and dissipate that or to reduce it. If it goes to your upper duodenum, well, it's way too late. So it stimulates the release of these three very, very powerful appetite-suppressing hormones. So I found it fascinating. That's a human adaptation, evolutionary. But in fact, plants sort of evolved alongside us. So if you think about it, when they want you to eat something, so let's say a strawberry, It's very, very sweet. And that, the seeds, we, we're carrying their seeds. But if you're going to eat the leaves, they're very, very bitter. Same as an apple tree, cuz the tree doesn't want you to eat the leaves. It wants you to eat the fruit. So kind of we evolved along the way together. Mm-hmm. So they did this and that was, they showed that we did this, but then they're like, okay, so how do we stimulate it? So they tested over 1,000 different natural extracts and literally only 2 worked. And the reason for that was, you know, if this was activated the whole time, you know, we'd have a cup of coffee and we wouldn't eat. So it's just this evolutionary. So 2, one was a potato oxalate, which is fantastic, but it's poisonous. So you'd be thin but dead. And then the other one was a hop and they're like, oh, this is fantastic. They then went and tested about 50 different hop varieties. Now remember I told you they bred all the hops in New Zealand, so they had them and they found the eureka, which they then named amarosaid. Amara meaning bitter and said meeting satiation. As I always say, never ever let a scientist name anything. No one in the world can pronounce amarosaid. They love it because it's like, what's wrong? Now remember, human clinicals are expensive. And they took it in, and this was an expensive trial because, uh, it was 30 males, but they're all cannulated, so they could take bloods all the way through. They gave them calicurb, which didn't actually have a name then, but they gave this capsule an hour before having an eat-till-you're-full lunch and an eat-till-you're-full snack, and they measured all the bloods. And in that, they showed that we increased GL— uh, CCK, by 600% and GLP-1 by 600%, PYY by about 400%, so slightly lower, but that's in the lower, lower gut. On average, an 18% reduction in calorie intake. So basically what it's doing is it's super stimulating your endogenous or your natural release of your own appetite suppressing hormones. Really to throw in there, I'll also say that many people say, well, compare it to Ozempic, compare it to something like that. What's the difference? Well, two differences is, you know, the main one everyone wants to know is semaglutide. If you inject, have a semaglutide, you will reduce on average around 25% of your calorie intake. We're around an average of 18%. The other thing is with the semaglutide, it is a synthetic hormone. Nothing wrong with a synthetic hormone, but they've changed a molecule in it so it doesn't get broken, much slower breaking down in the body. So it lasts for 7 days. So you have, like I would say, at about 3,000% GLP-1, which decreases over the week. You have high GLP when you're asleep. You have high GLP-1 all the time. You don't need a high GLP-1 all the time. We stimulate it when you need it, which is when you're going to eat. So if you— I love the graphs because they show, you know, they show your normal, because we all release GLP-1, but we superstimulate it. We literally do it by twice. And you see the graph with the calicurb. And so we are superstimulating it and your gut brain. God, that's a really long answer, isn't it?

It was absolutely fabulous. And I'm so fascinated by it as well. And I've been trying the calicurb and I love it. So I was, before meals if I knew I was going to be meeting, you know, friends for a bigger meal or something like that as well. And you really feel the difference, which is great, because I traditionally would be someone who might— my sort of gut-brain connection wasn't the fastest when eating, and then I realized after, okay, I've actually eaten too much. So it's so nice to not have that level of hunger going into a meal. And obviously doing what I do, I'm very cautious about what I'm eating, etc. But to notice something like that from a natural base versus, you know, obviously GLP-1s for certain people have their time and place, right? And there are certain benefits for certain people. However, if you have a natural substance, it's so much more powerful. So I just think that that's really important. And would you even say for people who are taking GLP-1s that this could be complementary, or would you say it's better not to mix them?

No, absolutely not. Remember, we are stimulating your endogenous or your natural. So practitioners are using it, well, in 3 ways. They're using it as an alternative. So for people that can't take the side effect, remember you get around 67% of people have gastrointestinal issues. And of course you are because you're putting it in at a very, very high level, you know, and it's almost your brain's saying, hey, something's going on here. Um, and as an alternative, people can't afford it. They want something natural. They don't want to inject themselves. The other one is, uh, while they're on it, because they can keep the dose down at the lowest level. So say something like a triseptide, they can take it at 2.5 mLs. Which is the starting dose, and they can keep them on the starting dose. So what does that do? It reduces the cost and it reduces the side effects, and you are actually stimulating your natural. And of course, at day 5, when they will get a breakthrough hunger 'cause it's degraded, of course the callicuba's there so they can go through to day 7. But the third one, and I really want to impress on that, is I don't say it's an if, it's a must, which is when they're titrating off, you have, and most people don't realize this, but when you tell them, they get it. You have suppressed your natural hormones to zero. So we have all the clinical papers on that. So you're, because your hormones have gone, woohoo, I don't need to do anything. I'm off. I'm off on holiday. I don't need to do anything. You've done it for me. It's like taking a testosterone or anything like that. You've suppressed it down. And so when you come off the GLP-1, of course you get this intense rebound hunger. You just want to eat everything. And of course, you'll get— this is where the weight rebound comes in. And we actually call it the valley of death because you come off this incredible hunger and you, and of course you're going to break any habits that you formed. You're just going to eat. You know, as we know, well, in a year, 75, 78% of people put the weight back on. And in fact, in 2 years, about 99%. So it's not an if, it's a must in that titrating down. And what I find fascinating, and I'll be able to tell you hopefully in a couple of weeks' time, because our 4th human clinical will be unblinded, scientists believe we upregulate these receptors. We don't downregulate. So when you stop calicurb, you actually, you've kind of, I kind of think I think of it like I've exercised these little taste receptors, so I've upregulated them. I haven't downregulated them. I've made them more gut-brain access. I've made it more receptive.

Jumping in quickly, it's Claudia von Boeselager. I absolutely love bringing you these conversations for free each week, and I can do that thanks to the generous support of our sponsors. These are brands I've personally vetted and believe in, and I think you'll love them too. Supporting them means you're also supporting the show and your own longevity journey. Thanks for supporting them. Now here's today's sponsors. This episode is brought to you by Calocurb. For those of us who struggle with food cravings, Calocurb is a natural science-backed way to support appetite control and reduce cravings without relying on synthetic appetite suppressants. Its key ingredient, amaracate, works with your body's natural GLP-1 response to help regulate hunger signals and promote a feeling of fullness. Clinically evaluated and made from botanical ingredients, Kalocurb encourages mindful eating and healthier portion control. Personally, I take it before going out for a meal or whenever I feel cravings creeping in. If you want to experience it for yourself, visit kalocurb.com/longevityandlifestyle. And use code Claudia10 at checkout.

Wow, that's really powerful as an added bonus on top as well. And could you share, Sarah, a bit around, as you mentioned, the science has been developed over 15 years and there's been the different clinical studies. So this is going to be the fourth one, but what have been some of the measurable outcomes like the appetite reduction, calorie intake, body weight change? Maybe you can walk people through listening. What have you seen in real time and maybe some anecdotes as well?

Well, certainly anecdotal, but the second human clinical was done on appetite in males, and we gave calicurb at, so they were, um, 24 hours water-only fast, and we gave calicurb at 16 hours and 20 hours, and we showed in males an 80%, uh, reduction in increased hunger. So massive. So at 24 hours, they were 80% less hungry than the control. We then had to go and do it. I was a bit grumpy about it. We had to go and do it. And I shouldn't say this, I'm so delighted we did. But we had to go and do it in females to get our Australian registration. Um, cause they're like, yeah, but you showed it in males, it may not happen in females. And I'm like, you know what, anyway. So I had to do it in females. Now you think about a double-blind trial in women with 3 treatments. We had to do 30 women, placebo, low dose, high dose. Um, you have to do women in their exact same stage of their menstrual cycle. On the exact same day of the week. And this was during COVID So, you know, it took around 18 months and quarter of a million dollars. You can see why I was grumpy, but I was so glad that we did it. A, because I couldn't leave the country. You know, I was in New Zealand. We were like the place you could leave but never come back. We did it and we showed, and we don't quite know why, we have hypotheses, but women are more sensitive to GLP-1. So when women, remember we gave it at 16 hours and 20 hours, we got 100% decrease in increased hunger and 120% decrease in craving. So at 24 hours, they were craving less than they were at 16 hours, and they were the same hunger at 24 hours than they were at 20 hours. 16 hours. So 8 hours in the last 8 hours of 24-hour fast. We also did rebound eating and we got 14.5% reduction in calorie intake. So that was 4 hours after their last dose. So very significant in that. So you look at the applications and that just as you said, you know, you're going out for a big meal or like for me, if I know I'm going to eat late, I will have it because I don't want to get there and go, oh, I'm going to eat everything., you know, and ruin all my good work during the day. A lot of people say it stops their eating after dinner. So take it before, you'll eat less, but you will feel full for a lot longer. So you're far less likely to go and go for that chocolate bar or something salty. The other one I say to women is during the luteal phase of the menstrual cycle. So the typical PMS, women on average will eat 200 calories more a day, actually more likely to eat, they can eat up to 600 calories. Now that's natural because your body's saying you may implant an egg, so I want to be prepared for this. You know, I'm going to get all of this in. But of course, you know, we're not going to implant an egg every month. Yeah, so there's just all of these applications and you can come in and out of it. That's the thing I like. You know, I mean, you know, for PMS, look, We're coming up to holidays. You want to eat. You're not going to upset your mother or your mother-in-law, are you? I say, oh, you know, you want to eat, but you just don't want to eat as much. You don't want to be like the fattened calf. So eat, but just not as much.

I love your analogies. Sarah, can you share what the ideal protocol is? Let's say somebody who has, you know, relatively active lifestyle. They're trying to maintain good health, but it's always those cravings, maybe they're that afternoon dip or whatever it might be, and they want to make better food choices and not have that constant cravings and distracting them. How often should they be taking Kalocurb and what intervals?

So just for that, um, and really just maintaining or actually losing weight, I take it at about— and we want to take it an hour before a main meal, but I take it at about 10:30. Now, how do you remember? It's always the thing. Most people have a cup of coffee or a drink at about 10:30 in the morning. Just remember there, you want to get a nutritious lunch, but you just won't eat enough and it'll take you through the afternoon. Similarly, take it an hour and an hour and a half before dinner. Once again, set it on your phone, but just try and remember. And it will just, A, so twice a day, at least an hour before on a relatively empty stomach. Why do we say that? It's a delayed release capsule. You want it to go through, through your stomach and into your upper duodenum. So, or your upper gut. And that's where it'll release and it'll start stimulating these hormones. So I intermittent fast because I'm lazy and it's just easy. So I take mine at about 9 in the morning. So it doesn't have to be that hour, but if you want to get that reduced meal intake, I take mine at about 9 in the morning. And of course it just sees me through till about 1 o'clock. And you know, I can walk past those muffins, I can walk past things like that. And you're like, no, I'm fine. It takes the noise away. So you ask, you know, what the feedback is. Most people come back and say, you've taken the noise from my brain.

Beautiful.

Yeah.

Um, and as someone who used to have like eating disorders as a teenager and all those struggles and like, I mean, the amounts of women and conversations about I have to stop eating so much, I have to do this, and this constant struggle as well. To have a natural opportunity that you don't need to be injecting yourself with something is really phenomenal, based on science, which I love as well.

I think most women have that, and, you know, often people say, well, why, you know, why did you start CaliCurb? I had— and I always say, you know, it's always got to be something personal to do something insane like this. Like, no one, you know, absolutely insane. I'd had a love-hate relationship with food my whole life. And many people will relate that love it but hate it, eat it but say, why did I eat that much? Why did I do that? You know, binging, not binging, dieting, all the rest. And I've taken Calicurb for 6 years now and I probably take it once a day because, you know, it's just a maintenance for me. Um, and I can say I have, I'm at peace with food. You know, I, I can enjoy it, but I just don't, I don't have, I don't have a hate relationship with it. I feel comfortable. And that was just such a relief. That constant discussion in your head. I want it, but I don't want it. I shouldn't have it. I could have it. All of those things.

Oh, it's like a new freedom, I think, as well. Even Oprah Winfrey, I mean, she was talking about Ozempic, but again, a GLP-1. She said for the first time in her life, she understood how, like, naturally thin people, they can just do what they want in a day. And it's not that constant inner battle and conflict, which so many people are ashamed about, they don't share about and talk about as well, but it just frees you to be you and not constantly be in that sort of inner battle as well. So yeah, it really—

what I want to say to women is it's not about willpower or anything like that. What most people don't realize is hunger or your appetite control is actually situated in your hindbrain, and that's a very primitive brain. And so I think it's fascinating if you reduce your calories by 25% per day. Your hunger doubles over 4 months. That is your noise. It doubles. And what your ghrelin is going, hey, you could be going into a famine. And it's telling your hindbrain, go out and eat something. So you are being driven. If we weren't driven, we'd all be lying in our caves going, you know what? Nah, it's raining. So you don't want to go. So this is it. And then of course we have this forebrain, our forebrain over our hindbrain. And this is where it says, no, this is the noise. No, you don't need to eat. You've had that. It's not healthy in that. Now you put stress, tiredness, alcohol, hormones, and that little forebrain goes bloop. And then your hindbrain goes, wee, off we go. And you think about it, how often have you eaten hot chips late at night? After having a few glasses of wine. That's because all of your inhibitions have gone and you're like, yeah, we're going to do that. That's your hindbrain telling you. So I often say to women, hey, the noise is not bad. It was your evolutionary system. So it's not bad. And in fact, you probably would have survived versus all the thin people like, oh yeah, no, I'm not going to eat. But it's what you eat and how you eat.

And so calico is a great way to bring back that control and that sense of freedom, I guess, as well for men and women, obviously, too.

Yeah.

And from a longevity perspective, how does the appetite regulation influence essentially the metabolic health, insulin sensitivity, and inflammation, which we know is so important? These are all the, the key underlying drivers of aging. So maybe you could expand on that for people listening.

Well, you know, excess weight is going to stress your body in every way, form, and type. You know, you think about every aspect of your body when you've got fat in your abdominal area, you're going to stress it. You know, on your musculoskeletal. These— they're seeing all of these incredible benefits. And of course, your body wasn't designed to carry, you know, it wants some fat for times of famine, but it doesn't want to carry this excess fat. So certainly this leanness, or a sense of leanness, and particularly, you know, I'd say for women going— God, we get it rough, don't we? Going into perimenopause or menopause. You start to accumulate fat around your middle. And women say to me, why have I lost my waist? And, you know, and this is what happens. So, you know, and that's not good. It's not good for any of your internal organs. So I hate to say it with, you know, perimenopause and menopause, because of your estrogen reduction, you actually have to eat 200 calories less a day just to stay the same size. So you get it, you get, you eat 200 calories more during PMS and you have to eat 200 calories less. But you know, the good news is we are more sensitive to GLP-1. So let's just take the upside on it.

I love it as well. Beyond the supplementation, what are some of the daily habits or nutrition practices that you personally believe make the biggest difference in long-term metabolic and weight management health?

Look, I'm just a huge proponent of protein. You know, and we just don't get enough protein. You know, I mean, we all know it's about 120 grams per day, which sounds easy, but if you think about an egg, an egg only has 7 grams of protein. You know, people go, oh, you know, but I'm having ham on my sandwich or something like that, I'm having cheese. But you are having a slice. You know, try, try to get that protein in, particularly with aging, because we do get muscle degradation. We do get sarcopenia. And if you find it hard, which it is, to get that breast of chicken or something like that, try a protein drink, you know, just to get that 30 grams in there. Watch out for bars, watch out for the nutritional panels. So many of them may have 30 grams of protein, but they also have hideously high sugar in there. So I'd say, you know, as a caveat, just watch out for those nutritional panels. Uh, you know, and so that for me is protein. Protein is everything.

Oh, amazing. And I would just, um, add to that as well that some people are like, well, you know, how much sugar? And I was reading that like anything above 5 grams per 100 grams, and be careful because the food manufacturers will trick you and it'll be like only 2 grams of sugar per 30 grams. So do the math, calculate up about how much sugar you're actually consuming and just be, you know, wary of that and when you would eat something like that as well. So yeah, but I, I think that eating that protein and I think, you know, a lot of people also they say, oh, I'm, you know, having 3 eggs in the morning, but that's 21 grams. That's not the 130 grams.

I eat 3 eggs, love it, but it's not enough. I mean, that's less than 20%. In fact, my, um, the staff that I work with hate me because I'm always eating boiled eggs 'cause they're the egg and they're like, that's disgusting.

You and the bodybuilders.

No, I know, I know. But always 'cause it's just such an, well, I, you know, it's just such an easy form of protein.

What do you eat, Sarah? I mean, you've studied this all the way back in veterinary school, obviously for animals, though, but what is your ideal nutrition in a day?

I do try and be natural. So, you know, I'll always— well, I fast because I'm lazy. And that just means that, you know, I have one less meal. I am lazy. I'd love to say I do it for a whole lot of reasons, but I just have one less meal a day. I, you know, is it right? I don't know. My lunch would always be a couple of eggs, hummus, and some cottage cheese. And I think I eat a huge amount. Of salad. It's just such an easy go-to. It is, you know, we get so many pre-prepared salads now. Just be careful of the dressings as well. You know, put these ranch and that, they're actually more than the salad. Um, you know, I think I told you I was recently in Italy and they only put olive oil and balsamic on the table. You really only need to splash those over and taste it. And then for dinner, it'll be chicken or a steak or something like that. So, and salad, salad, salad, salad. So what we forget is all of these toppings, dressings, topping. We were out at dinner here in America the other day and had a baked potato and they're like, do you want all the toppings? And I'm like, no, I'll have them on the side. But if they'd put them all on my baked potato, my little happy, very good for me baked potato would be terrible. You know, I'd have sour cream, butter, cheese, bacon, all of those.

I think that's the really important point as well. And like, by the way, like we, I've just put olive oil, like cold-pressed olive oil, sometimes a little bit of balsamic, fresh lemon. Excellent. Some lime, some really good, like good quality salt. I'm a Kalahari Desert salt at the moment from things which I'm obsessed with.

The other thing is put a couple of crunchy seeds on top. Seeds are good for you. So, you know, they will really lift up a whole salad. So, you know, I, I'm like a rabbit, but I do eat a lot of salad.

And I like it. It's amazing. We need it as well. Sarah, where can people follow you, find out more what you're up to, learn more about Calocurb? Where would you send them to? And we'll link everything in the show notes.

It's just www.calocurb.com. That's C-A-L-O-C-U-R-B.com. And, you know, people often ask, why did you call it Calocurb? It's such a naff name. Well, you know, um, when you're looking for a name, You know, you, you gotta have something that describes, but also what most people don't realize is, um, you gotta have something that can be trademarkable around the world. Anyway, so Calo meaning calories and Curb meaning curb those calories, which in fact it does. And, um, you know, we are on Facebook, we're on Insta, we're on all of those and there's some pretty cool, and these are little hints. We do not try and prescribe to people what to do. We pour all of our energy into the science, but we have some pretty cool things coming up on there.

That's amazing. And dear audience, KaloKerb and Sarah kindly offering you a 10% off to try it out. So if you go to kalokerb.com/longevityandlifestyle and use the code Claudia10 at the end at checkout, you can check it out for yourself and see the benefits as well. So Sarah, do you have any parting thoughts or message or piece of advice for my audience today?

Really? I mean, it's been wonderful being on and talking to you, but You know, as I said to you, I can only say it from an anecdotal, it has given me such incredible freedom, you know, to have this peace. And, you know, I wish I'd known it a lot, lot, lot earlier. And, you know, if you're one of those people like me with that noise all the time, do try it. And you can always get hold of us. You can always ask us questions.

Beautiful. Beautiful. Thank you so much, Sarah, for coming on today. Thank you to your audience. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. It's been such a pleasure, Sarah. Thank you.

Thank you.

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