Why BIOHACKING is OUT: Lifespanning is the Key to Longevity and Vitality with Jean Fallacara

Welcome back, dear listeners, to the Longevity and Lifestyle Podcast. I'm your host, Claudia von Boeselager, here to guide you on a journey to unlock the secrets of living healthier, happier, and longer life. Thank you for being part of this incredible community of high achievers and lifetime learners committed to becoming the best version of yourself every single day. Before we dive in, don't forget to subscribe to my weekly newsletter at llinsider.com, where I share exclusive tips, insights, and fun discoveries to help you thrive. Now let's get started. My guest today is Jean Fallacara, a visionary entrepreneur, neuroscientist, and bioengineer on a mission to revolutionize human longevity through his Lifespanning movement. With an MIT background in biotech engineering and accolades like being named one of the most disruptive entrepreneurs in 2023, Jean is here to share why Lifespanning is the future of longevity. Welcome back to the Longevity and Lifestyle podcast, dear friend Jean. It's Pleasure to have you back with us today.

Thank you. I'm so glad to be back. I'm so honored to come back again. And it's always a pleasure seeing you and talking to you. It's an infinite connection.

Yeah, 100%. And so much fun as well. And we share so many different views and visions of things and a history of biohacking as well. So I'm really excited for us to dig in today as to why we both recommend moving away from sort of pure biohacking and instead shift to a more holistic and long-term approach with the term you call lifespan, which I love as well. And so let's start with your journey, Jean. Maybe for people who didn't catch our round one, this is already round two, and I'm sure one of many to continue, I hope.

Yeah.

And how did you first get into biohacking? What led you to transition? So maybe you can share with us.

Yeah, about 23 years ago, Well, I was always passionate about brain and health optimization at large. I've studied science mainly in every aspect of it, from genetic to immunology to biotech to whatever. But the main concern I had was like how the brain function and how you can optimize that part of the body that actually governs everything that is below it. And I was convinced even as a kid that if you control your brain, you control your body perfectly. And so, that quest was like, for me, the holy grail of finding out this mystery how to master your brain connection and how to master what we used to hear and call neuroplasticity. And we hear it all the time. So, 23 years ago, I was starting by using tools and tracking and data to see how by using my brain in flow state mainly, I could optimize what I was doing with my body. At the time, I was not doing calisthenics or gymnastics. I was doing body workout and lifting weight like everybody does. But in terms of performance, I was a runner as well and rock climber and all these things. And everything. And everything and skydiver. But you push your body to the extreme where you start to understand that Everything you trigger in your brain can be controlled and can be actually centered in a way that you can use it appropriately. Let me explain that. For example, you're stressed by something, but if you gather the information around that stressor that creates some sort of anxiety in your body and you use it to your advantage, you transform that into a powerful tool and a powerful energy that will get into your muscle so you can run faster, you can lift heavier, you can move quicker, or I don't know, backflip, all these things because it comes from mastering the power of your brain. So, I was a biohacker 23 years ago by that and I was taking all these notes and graphics and data on Excel because no AI at that time, no trackers, no Fitbit, no Whoop, no Rings.

What data input were you using out of curiosity 23 years ago?

Yeah, body temperature, motion, the grip strength, how it increases VO2 max, of course, heartbeat, the distance and the speed of running. And then, from the brain itself, EEG existed already. So, that's one of the tools. And I was also using transcranial direct stimulation. And funny story, just before jumping on the podcast, I was reading a post by Andrew Huberman and he was actually mentioning transcranial direct stimulation that is something that is going to be used more and more because people discovered that they optimize your brain. I'm damn it, but I was on it 23 years ago already.

I know it's not new. Exactly. It's like, I know this from a long time ago. Exactly. Yeah.

And, you know, I've seen this biohacking industry coming from— it was on a good intention at the beginning. It was like optimizing, becoming a biohacker. Dave Asprey was doing his things on what he was doing. With the biohacking movement. But look at it, we have to be honest, this movement is dead and is really going nowhere because it's becoming full of sh— completely full of crap. I haven't seen an industry, and I've been in various industries from biotech to environmental and things like that, but this industry is getting swamped by bullshit and bullshitter. When you need to pay $30,000 to be on a movie and say that you're a feature, I'm sorry, but this is abusing people. When you sell something that is, I don't know, based on chocolate, for example, and you say this is chocolate biohacking, I'm sorry, but you're scamming people.

Longevity chocolate. Exactly. Yeah.

Come on. We have to. And then, on the other side, look at it. Talk about biohacking to people in the street, what they're going to say? I don't have any idea on what it is. I don't want to be a biohacker because it looks like weird to hack something. Yeah. And what is it? So we have to face it and people want to live longer. And everybody wants to live longer. You know, this is— living longer is the chase of humanity from the existence of humans on this planet to now. We have always been chasing eternality or like a longer life. From history, it's been the quest of everyone. So, it's not new, but the movement is kind of new in our world in the way that is taken down and it needs a shift. It needs some sort of a revolution explaining to people that, listen guys, it's not that complicated. We are designed to live 120. There is no doubt on that and scientific evidences on that. We don't, but we must. That's it.

I love it. Yes. I want to dive into your definition of lifespanning because for me, and we've discussed this over, over many conversations together, for me it's almost the improvement, or it's the not just living longer, but it's how do you step into the best version of yourself, your life, your health, your agility, your mental fitness, you name it, vitality today and live like that for as long as possible. Yeah. And so maybe you could define life-spanning for people who are just hearing this, this word for the first time.

Sure. When we look at people in their lives, okay, we are born, we live, we grow, teenager, adults, then getting older. Older and older, and you have this trajectory that is unfortunately not a straight line but a curve. And the curve is inverse proportional to the exponential. When you get older, you fall down super fast, and the last 10 years of your life, for many people, are miserable. So lifespan is this, is changing that trajectory to make sure that it's becoming more and more a straight line, and the last 10 years of your life have to be fulfilled with vitality, energy, movement, social connection, and everything that we forgot because most of the time we take the excuse of, I'm too old. I'm too old to do that sport. I'm going to play golf. I'm too old to do that. I'm going to sit down and play cards. I want to change that. I want to make people understand that it is never too late and you're never too old. I've talked to people 100 and they don't consider themselves old. And I talk to people that are 60 and even 40 and they consider themselves old. This is where we need to change. Yeah, it's all in your mind. It's all in your head. Exactly.

Let's talk about mindset's role, Jean, in lifespan as well. Right.

So yeah, this is it. Like, mm-hmm. So lifespanning, to go back to your question, the definition is very simple. If you look at healthspan, which is what I just described, and lifespan, the life that you have to normally live, you mix both of them and you try to define how can I get the longer lifespan with the better healthspan. It's lifespanning.

I love that. I also had Dr. Gladys McGarry on the podcast, 102 years old, still practicing physician. I mean, she's great fun. She's like, you know, I need help with this, I need help with that. But like, sharp as a whip and she's still seeing patients. And I was like, this is it. And I think Florida is actually a great place. We were just talking about Miami in general. You have so many inspiring people. I mean, where my parents live over in Naples, I went to a spinning class a few years ago with my mother and I was speaking to this man. He's like, yeah, I go to spinning 4 days a week and then I do my weight training and I'm going to be traveling around the world. And he's again, on my next birthday when I'm 88. And I was like, sorry, what? I mean, this guy was super sharp and on it. And with it and how much— and we just mentioned briefly their mindset, but how much do you think mindset is important for deciding to step into a lifespanning mindset in general? But also how much does mindset prevent people from living the life that they truly want?

Yeah.

And what can they do?

Unfortunately, you know, it starts by that. No one will decide for you. That's the main problem. No one will take the decision that you need to move, you need to walk. We were talking about the 10,000 steps. No one will ever force you to do that and no one will ever force you to look at the sunshine in the morning before 10 AM. No one will tell you to drink water. So, it starts by decision, small steps that you need to take yourself. You know, we do those longevity calls where we assess people's longevity expectation and goals. And I've learned, honestly, really disappointing, that many people are really willing in theory to change. But when you bring the step and the plan to them, they don't want to give up and they go back to the straight line that is, don't you have a pill that will just fix my problem?

Oh no, if I hear that, my heart is like, oh no. Is it, is it because we're so brainwashed from Big Pharma that there's a pill that's gonna, you know, solve it? Or is it laziness, intrinsic laziness? Or, wow, is it because we, we as a human think it's going to be much more difficult than it is? What do you think the root of that is?

Yeah, you know what, I really think that is because of our education. Like, we were— we, we have formed habit in our brain with that, that mindset. So we're a kid, we got sick. The thing that our parents are telling you, are telling us most of the time, is, oh, you have a flu. "Let's take some antibiotics." "Oh, take that pill to get your fever down." "Oh, drink that syrup to make you sleep at night." So, we formed those habits in our heads, saying that we have a problem, must be a pill out there to fix it. And to change that, you need to think about how are you built up, what are you made of, and how it works. I never take pills because I have fever. I'm gonna go in a cold plunge.

Yeah.

And I want to sweat when I have the first symptom of a cold or a flu, so I'm gonna go to a sauna to sweat that out. And if my throat is itching me, I'm gonna take some plants and natural medicine, not medics and pharmaceuticals. But I had to change that. I had to understand that it's possible, and I made the effort to try And that's the difference, you know, that's what I'd like to educate people. It's to make them understand that, you know what, try it, just try it. And if that works, go to another one and another one and another one. I'm not asking you to drastically become or do what I do, but at least like do one thing, do Go outside in the morning and take some vitamin D from the sun and you'll see like your immune system, you're not gonna get sick the same way. And put some respect to your sleep by going to bed with a routine and avoiding phone before going to bed and implementing a couple of steps. And you'll see that you're not gonna get sick and you'll see that you're gonna wake up fresh, solid, energized. With maybe the mindset and your brain functioning better with your mindset saying, okay, today it's the day I'm starting another one. It starts from there. And that's, you know, that's this leverage I'm trying and I'm, yeah, hard.

The snowball effect. I know I try to teach clients this as well. I, you know, say like, what is the minimum thing that's like a no-brainer, easy to do? And just start with the one thing as well. Because I think when people speak to you or like even to me, right? And like, what is your routine? What is your things? And I was like, that doesn't matter. I've been doing this so long. I won't tell you all the different things that I do because you'll be like, this is overwhelming. I'm not even going to start. And it's finding the lowest hanging fruit and building up that momentum. It's like that snowball effect, right? It's like, you know, what can I do? So my goal, I want to get back to running. Okay, well, how do you set it up so it's a no-brainer? Like, leave out your clothes the night before, have your shoes by the door. You know, if you need to have your lemon with the water thing, you know, ready to go in the morning, whatever it is that you're looking to do to make it so simple and then celebrate the wins as well. And, you know, don't set yourself up to fail like New Year's resolution, 1 hour in the gym every single day for a month. You know, after 3 days you're going to be— if you haven't done that before, right, you're going to be like, this is so boring. I don't want to do it or whatever your thing is. So just pick the little things to win, build up on the momentum as well. And then when you start shifting is when you start being like, okay, what's the next step?

Step.

Like, what else could I do as well? So completely hear you and agree with you. And I think for people listening, you know, give yourself some slack. Don't expect yourself to go from 1 to 100 like overnight. And step by step.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I think just even the little things.

Yeah, we are the way we are with the routine we have. But sometimes I— recently someone said like, can I film you for your routine from when you wake up to when you go to bed. And I go like, that's a good idea. And then I realized, so I was putting on paper everything I do, but I do so many things naturally that—

You don't think about it.

Yeah. Like I was walking in the street at night because I walk after my dinner. So, I was walking in the street at night and you go to cross a bridge. And so, you have two ways. One way is the cars are coming towards you. The other way, the cars are going from your back.

I mean, from behind.

Yeah. So from behind you. So I was on that thing and I was about to turn left. But for me to turn left, I have to cross that street in order for me to have the car coming from my back. And the guy goes like, why you don't go this way? And I go like, well, it's because it's night. I don't want the blue light from the car to go in my eyes. And he goes like, to those details? And I go like, I haven't even thought about it. It became so natural to me. Yeah.

Yeah. And I mean, you know, I laugh at myself sometimes and, you know, we, and I'm sure you do too, we have friends that know all these details and totally get it and you don't even need to say anything. And then we have friends maybe that are not so aware and it's kind of, you know, people are like, oh, what's advice on this and that the other? And sometimes I'm like, okay, I need to, filter it in a little bit because otherwise, you know, people are like, oh, this is too much. Like, I can't even turn on my light. I can't do this. I can't do that as well. So I think it's for individuals to make certain choices, to know in general, and then to start bit by bit implementing them as well.

Right.

And then they become so automated that you don't even need to think about it.

And this is where you nailed it. And, you know, this is why I want to distance myself from biohacking, because biohacking is perceived that way. This extreme routine where you wake up, you take this, you walk, you, you go on the sunshine, you put red light, you put, uh, whatever, and you have no time to live. A bit like Bryan Johnson is doing. And people perceive that life as so exhausting, they don't want to go there, they don't want to do that. And they are right. I don't understand. Yeah, I wouldn't have Brian Johnson routine at all, at no cost. Yeah. Um, funny enough, because I was like yesterday, I was saying exactly the same sentence and I could like, I'm not Brian Johnson. I don't want to have that type of routine and far from, from me. I'm a lifespanner. And then I was preparing my lunch meal and I was like breaking 2 eggs, adding 2 scoops of proteins. Putting almond milk and an avocado and a banana, like very regimented stuff that I make naturally. And I go like, damn, my lunch looked like a Brian Johnson lunch.

I literally had my 3 organic eggs with spinach, red onion, tomato, organic tomatoes. I saw the documentary actually last night as well. And I mean, in all fairness, it takes a lot of self-discipline and respect. And I think he has a why above and beyond just obviously what he's doing, um, as well. But I do think that for many people, they are like terrified. They're like, why would I buy into something like that? There's no life. It's so difficult.

Um, and so I think, yeah, I don't want to take that risk.

Yeah, yeah, the risk.

But you know what, I watched, uh, Bryan Johnson's, uh, documentary. I like the guy. I like the routine. I admire the work. I hate it. The documentary. It, it paints a portrait of a man that is coming from a dysfunctional family, heavily anchored into religion, um, former obese, not capable of educating kids and even keeping a relationship. Maybe gay, introvert, and I was deceived by the psychopathological aspect of the person he is. But I still like him, you know, I, I like him. You can cut down this part if you are not comfortable with it, but I like to speak frankly, and this is the feeling I had, uh, by saying that. I, I noticed that, you know, When you look at Bryan Johnson, when he was speaking on stage with his former company in the tech industry, he's not speaking the same way, the same language. And you see that there is a trauma behind what he's doing and he's probably doing some sort of compensation on trauma by creating this as the self-centered god of some things he created. That bothers me. You know, when it turns to be almost cultish, I'm, I'm not comfortable with that. Dave Asprey did the same with the biohacking industry and is paying high price today because from someone that everybody was admiring, Dave Asprey has been— is, is no longer, uh, the one that was shining high and the one that we were listening to because of the advisors, now is criticized on everything he says. And it's a pity because he's a clever man and he has a huge knowledge. And with all due respect, he's done very well for the biohacking industry. But unfortunately, he stand— he did stand on a stage of, I'm the king of the biohacking, like Bryan Johnson is doing I'm the king of Don't Die, a new movement that is bigger than any other movement that existed before. So, it's the syndrome of God. I don't want that with lifespanning. I don't want to stand on everything. Lifespanning is the mission of people. It's people that need to be on the stage. It's not any leaders. You need a leading way, an inspiration. But you need a troop behind you that raise their hands, help people, and together do something for real that doesn't serve the interest of one person.

I love that, Jean. Yeah, that ego that gets in the way. And we know, right? I mean, even for longevity and the longest-running study from 1938 out of Harvard, the key to happiness in life and longevity is social connection. So, yeah, going up with just an ego, I think, is not 100% not the way forward. And so I like the idea that it's about a movement together. But let's depict a little bit what are the pillars of lifespan in your view?

Well, it's very simple. You know, the biohacking industry was like stack as much as possible of technologies and modalities on you and you're going to be better. Bullshit. Lifespanning is the opposite of that, is try to build up the foundation of a fulfilled life with natural behaviors and elements, the one we were designed for. Longevity by design. We were— Yeah, we were designed to be on the sun and living with according to our circadian rhythm. So go back to that. We were designed to live barefoot. So once in a while, pay attention to that and go for some grounding. We were designed to sprint. Most people after the age of 30, they don't even know how to run fast, but even forget about sprinting. It's far from their potential. So, go back to those things, build up the foundation of vitality and life, which is 90% of making you live longer. And on the 10% that remains, use intelligently protocols, modalities, tools, and all the technologies and trackers that we have out there to help you to live longer. But before you do that, make an assessment on where you are. Never forget to make the assessment. We have today the possibilities of knowing exactly what works for us, what doesn't work for us. We have access to blood panel, genetic panels, epigenetics panels, DNA testing, and name it. And even like down to testosterone level and cortisol level whatsoever, even HRV on, on, on, on watches. So, make an assessment on where you stand. That will help you to build up that foundation I'm talking about. And from that foundation, when it's solid enough, you can build up better using the technology, AI, and what is available out there. This is lifespanning. This is the goal of lifespanning. This is explaining to people that It's not that complicated, you know. It starts by assessing and then extending your life. Assess and extend.

And improve the quality of your life, I guess, along the way.

Yeah.

Because biohacking is very much about the physical, right? And, you know, what can you ingest or, you know, do for the physical part. But I assume there's also, for the lifespanning concept, right, Jean, there's some overlap in modalities. I guess it depends on definitions as well. But what are some of the most important modalities? And would you say that people should continue if they're already doing biohacking? And what are— for people who are interested in maybe looking into this space and realize, okay, biohacking is not for me, but, okay, lifespan, I like this idea. What can I start with? What can I do?

Well, you know, not going too far, but get some things that produce hydrogen water. This is one step. If you go biohacking, because you can have lemon and salt, but even salt is considered biohacking today, but it's a natural element. Okay, get some salt. If you call it biohacking, that's fine.

Yeah.

Anyway, I think that one of the best tools honestly out there today for a lot of application still remains the infrared therapy. It's fairly accessible. It's like many people live up north and they don't have the light and they don't have the exposure or sometimes their skin is not properly regenerating. So, and you have so many applications. Infrared would be my go-to as a modality to, to use. And so many people are struggling with stress and sleep disorders and things like that. So you have two tools that are phenomenal. Honestly, this one.

I have it on my ankle.

Yeah.

Otherwise, I'd show it. I'm standing up.

Dave Rubin did a fantastic job with this Aplo Neuro. I was among the beta testers of his units. And I do remember being like bluffed because for me, I was, as a scientist, I was like, what the hell is that? It's not possible. And then I tried it and I was just like, this is impossible. It actually works very well.

And let me just pause you for one second. So for people listening or watching and it's like, what did he just show there? Was it a watch? So It's a small device. Let me actually take off mine so I can show for people watching. And you have yours there as well. Exactly. So it's a small device that gently vibrates and it triggers your parasympathetic nervous system. So it basically triggers you to feel safe. It transmits the best through bone. I was asking Dave about it, like if you have it on your ankle versus your wrist, etc. Normally I have it on my wrist actually as well. And it works wonders.

Yeah.

So sorry, I didn't want to interrupt, but just—

No, no, no. It's an incredible tool and it's phenomenal the way it works and it's kind up with his Generation 2 and is getting a lot of traction on Kickstarter, which I'm very happy for. That's one. And the other one for people that are stressed or anxious or have difficulties with maybe something similar to ADHD, Neuravisor, honestly. I know that you spoke to Garnet recently. Garnet is a huge friend earlier today, actually about a few hours ago. Yeah, yeah, I love that guy.

I know, yeah, he's great, he's great.

And yeah, I consider him like a brother from another mother somewhere. And he came up with some things that is really interesting. And again, those technology for me were really far from my expectation or my my targets because as a scientist, you always look like by molecular action and reaction and things like that. So, we're talking about vibration from one and the other one, brain, NeurVizr on the brain, you're talking about light and sound stimulation. And, yeah, it's phenomenal how you can change the wavelength of your brain. If I had NeurVIZR 23 years ago would have been a very cool tool to use instead of having just like transcranial direct stimulation tools.

Yeah. And that's where I think there is a bit of overlap because some people might say, oh, these devices, they're biohacking, right? I mean, I don't know if you want to.

If you want to, but they're used more and more in science and research. So, yeah. But that's the thing, you know, Claudia, is how do you define what is a biohack? It's— it became so ridiculous today, like I was saying before, to call salt a biohacking stuff. This is like—

makes no sense. Even, even cold plunge. So let me tell you, my grandmother, 120 years ago, was going to the German, you know, the spa things, right? These like medical spa things, which was like part of a normal practice in a year. The insurance companies, lo and behold, would even pay for them and go into the sauna. And then you go into the cold plunge. And I mean, this is over 100 years ago. And she lived to the tender age of 94. And back in the day, I had a great-grandfather who lived to 98. So I mean, there's definitely something in it. And now it's like these new modern lifestyles.

I'm like, That exists.

Cold water is cold water. It's been there and been there for a long time.

Yeah. And even like breathwork, it's called biohacking. But okay, I remember everybody that it is the first thing you do when you are born. This is the first, first, first thing you do. You breathe. Is it biohacking? Damn it. Come on.

Biohacking babies.

Yeah, that's it.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I guess some people like the word for trends and stuff too. So I mean, that's, I guess, a different conversation. But what are your— so you discussed two of your favorite wearables, right? With the Apollo Neuro, which we both love, we both wear. I'm pretty much addicted to it. I have it on almost every day. And we'll link in the show notes details for people listening. And then NeuroVisor, which I think is really exciting, as you know, and most of my audience know as well, that my mother suffers with dementia. And so it's a cause very close to my heart, like how can you optimize the brain and keep it healthy for as long as possible? And last year, now 2024, there was very promising research out of MIT. I don't know if you saw it around the pulsating light and the ability to clear amyloid plaque. And they currently have a device that's going through FDA clearance, if I understood correctly. And so I think just knowing that your brain and neuroplasticity can continue into 40s, 50s, 60s and plus, plus, plus. I mean, if you speak with Garnett, he's as sharp as something and he's in his 70s at some point. I'm like, I want to have a brain like that when I'm in my 70s, that's for sure. And so that's the beauty of it, that there are modalities we can do. But I think, you know, for people listening and watching, it's, you know, prevention is better than cure. So like, why not step into the highest version of you now, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You need— like I was saying before, before you prevent, you need to, uh, first you need to prevent to die by stupid stuff. Uh, that's why I'm not doing skydiving and rock climbing anymore.

But I still have it on my bucket list for skydiving. Would you say no-go? I don't know. It depends where, right?

No, I will still, but I was doing it on a daily basis before. I don't anymore. But I mean, you need to assess and then you can prevent because, for example, if you don't have the gene that leads you to Alzheimer's, maybe you don't need to do all these things. But if you do have it, you better act quickly and as soon as you can, because knowing— knowledge is power. And like, I know it is expensive and hopefully I'm crossing fingers, but those full body MRI or full body scan, Ezra or Prenuvo, I really hope that the government is going to shift from prevention to curative behaviors that we have today and put Everybody on a scan to make sure that if ever you have cancer stage 1, act now, not wait until 3 or 4 and or even at the end when it's too late. Why people are dying from cancer? It's because first chemotherapy doesn't work. 99.7% failure. No one survived. From there, from that. So but many people reverse cancer on stage 1 very easily just by changing their diet.

And that's— I think I'm quite optimistic about what is happening in the world. I mean, obviously my news channels are very focused around longevity and things, but I think there is this waking up, particularly in the US where it is most drastically needed.

Yeah.

To finally banning. I mean, yesterday, right, the FDA banned the red dye after 35 years of it being banned in makeup, but they thought it was still okay to feed it to kids. I mean, it's just so absurd that, that, you know, who was asleep at the wheel and that needs to be checked. But anyway, I'm all about making progress. So that's the progress is starting to finally be made. So I think winds of change are amongst us.

Yeah.

In helping people wake up and realize that we can't have these blind faith with, oh, everything must be okay, but instead kind of go back to, well, you know, all these, you know, bright colors in a cereal, like, could this be okay? Or Skittles? Yeah, I mean, M&M's. I mean, I've had M&M's. Skittles I'm not a big fan of, but like, I used to think M&M's were great, like, back in the day, right? And so hopefully people feel empowered to learn how to read food labels, to understand that, you know, it— just because it's in the supermarket doesn't mean that it's okay. And to relearn, you know, the joy of preparing good food and cooking. I mean, years ago they had to reintroduce cooking courses in some European countries because there was a whole generation once the microwave was introduced of parents never cooked at home anymore. It was just putting things in a microwave. So children didn't know what a home-cooked meal was, which is kind of scary. So going back to the roots, like you were saying before as well, and basic things.

Yeah, I unfortunately, even if I'm a dreamer, I, I don't think that we're going to change the world even with the Maha movement, Make America Healthy Again. We will see a shift, we will see a movement starting, but unfortunately, it takes at least 2 or 3 generations to really drastically have it done, but it started. That's all it counts. Yeah, that's all it counts.

It depends on the family, I would say.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know that you educate your kids like that, but your kids will still be affected by what is out there in the world, and supermarket will still have those foods and all these things. I mean, like, to see the world really changed where those food are forbidden in, in, in supermarket fast food industry cut down and change for some things that is healthy. We're not going to see that even if we live 250. We need to extend it to 200 to probably be able to live longer.

So, okay, years ago.

Yeah, but unfortunately, you know, I'm not a fan of the don't die. I think that the purpose of life is If you were to know that you would never die, would you enjoy life the way you enjoy it and wake up every morning and say like, 'Fuck, this life is beautiful and I'm living the dream every day because one minute is one minute and my time is ending one second at a time'? But if you know that you're gonna live forever, Wow, I'm gonna stay in bed.

Agree. I mean, I guess it's how your neural pathways are wired, right? Like, some people are like, oh, let's take advantage, I've got so much time, so many things to do. But no, I agree with you as well. We all have currently a one-way ticket. So it's, you know, how do we, how do we make the most of it? How do we have a purpose that's bigger than ourselves, is what you were saying with the Lifespanning Movement and helping others as well to, to realize what is what's important and what we love and not have to worry about disease and decline and, you know, is it over and seeing loved ones suffering, etc.

Yeah. And Claudia, not being scared about getting older as well, because honestly, it's not fun to get older. It's not fun because you put yourself in a standard and in perspective to the one you know around you that are the same age, a bit older, and you project yourself and you look like, "Oh, will I look like that and behave like that in 10 years from now? Will I be sitting in a chair and playing cards and drinking alcohol 10 years from now instead of going to the gym and doing calisthenics?" I'm scared. Too. I have to admit it. And I don't want that. And I know it's possible. So that's the thing. We have to enjoy every single day, even if it's not fun to get older.

Very true. And that's a really good reminder because while we do our routines and practices, things happen, right? I mean, my mother's dementia was expedited by a a bad head injury, a very bad head injury, and then coming out of it with COVID and not having the same support that you would normally would if it wasn't COVID times. And so, yeah, things can happen as well. And so I think that's a really good reminder, Sean, is that all the biohacks, all the life-spanning techniques and things people might be implementing, don't forget to live and live in the present. And I love the expression from Eckhart Tolle about life is just a series of nows.

Yeah, right.

So yeah, don't start kicking things down the road. It's like all you have is now. Yeah. And just be in the now and be present and enjoy it as much as you can. Right.

Yeah. So important. Yeah, I agree.

So, Jean, you're talking about being filmed for your typical day, but what are some of your routines and practices that you would let people know are quite important for living a life-spanning life?

I would start by the most important one that there is no compromise and no settlement and no flexibility on it. Sleep. I'm a party pooper because I want to go to bed. I don't want to party. Well, I need to go to bed at 10. And before going to bed, I have a very strict routine is like my, I allow myself to check Instagram and things like that. I spend 30 minutes, between 20 and 30 minutes on social media these days per day, which is not that much. So, I spend probably 15, 20 minutes at night. At night. Okay. Let me put it in perspective. Let's roll back.

Late afternoon. Yeah.

So, I have my dinner by 6, around 6, 6:30. After my dinner, I walk for an hour. When I come back from my walk, I allow myself to check Instagram or Facebook or LinkedIn and things like that the last time of the day and just keep up with that. From there, I shut off my phone. It's off until the day after 8:00 AM. I don't touch it even if I wake up at 6:00.

So airplane mode completely off, right?

Completely off. And in the kitchen, so not even accessible. And after that, what I'm going to do is I'm going to do some meditation to relax my mind, to wind down. Before going to bed, I'm going to take a very hot, hot, hot shower. I allow myself to chill down a bit, and then I go to bed and I read. I'm reading a very interesting book these days about longevity. I'll share that later on. And it's fascinating how much you can learn from these books. And so, I read. And by reading, when my eyes are going back and forth on the last chapter 10 times, I know that it's time for them to shut. Turn off the lights. The curtains off. And I'm reading under red light as well, so you get tired faster. And then, I do breathwork but very simple breathwork, deep in, hold, out, in, hold, out. By the fourth— So, like the box breath, is it? Right. Yeah. By the fourth or the fifth, I'm off and I'm in sleep. And I wake up, I haven't used an alarm for, I don't know, I don't even remember when it was the last time. So I wake up in between 6 and sometimes 7, depending on how tired I was the day before. And I don't use tracker anymore, but once in a while, I put a tracker on or 2 trackers or even 3 or 4 just to make sure that I'm on. Yeah, not for long, for like a week or for a month maximum. And I I look at what my patterns are and I have my minimum 2 hours REM sleep, 2 hours deep sleep per night. Last week, I had 4-hour REM sleep, which is— yeah, many people say it's impossible. And I go like, well, my tracker says that. And I had like an hour and 37 minutes on deep. Of course, my deep sleep was a bit shorter, but still, you can prepare yourself for lucid dream before going to sleep and trigger your brain. Once again, controlling your brain, control your brain that you are going to go into REM sleep, dreaming, mainly dreaming, dreaming. And you have to be very positive and you prepare yourself for those dream cycles. So, that's my routine. Sleep is is not negotiable. It's the way that you will live longer. It's the way that you optimize your brain. It's the way that you optimize your body. It's the way that you clean up your mess in your brain and body. So don't mess around with the sleep. And you know, it's funny because someone like me saying that, it's almost a joke because I've been an insomniac for years. And when I was a DJ, I was actually working at night, taking ecstasy and cocaine to be— to stay awake and party for 3 days in a row without sleeping. But I look at that, it's part of my life. That's fine. Yeah, you renew your biology completely. So it's gone, but it was part of my life. And today, I would like when people invite me over, I'm just like, I'm sorry, guys, I'm going to extend it to 11 maximum, but can we have a date?

11 is already late for you, Jean.

You're missing the whole thing. And this is the thing. I came to Miami and my business partner goes like, oh, let's go to the restaurant Friday night. And I go, yeah, sure, sure. Let's do it. And then, he sent me a text message. Sent me a text message, our reservation is at 10:30.

Very Spanish. I've lived in Madrid.

No, no, no.

Like if it's 10:30 in the morning, I'm there. I know it's tricky. I mean, you sound very disciplined with your nos, and I want to ask you something about saying no, because I think that's part of the key actually of living better. But before I ask you that question, I think that it's shifting lifestyle. And do you think it's okay to do exceptions in terms of like the occasional weekend night later? Or do you think that impacts? Because people say you should always get up at the same time every day, go to bed at the same time every day.

Okay. If it's occasional, it's fine. Don't make it an habit. It's like drinking wine. If you drink a glass of wine once in a while or on Sunday night, once a glass, it's not going to kill you despite whatever that's been said last week. Yeah, you know, you can actually bank some sleep if you know that you are going to party on Saturday night and go to bed. Listen to this, going to party, you're going to bed at 11.

So this is a podcast for people that are also younger. Okay. We're not 90 years old here.

Okay. Let me put it back. Okay. If you are going to party, that's it. Yeah, let's say you are going to party up to midnight because it's New Year's Eve. So, what you do during the week before, you bank some sleep instead of staying in bed for 7 hours, try to stay for 8 hours and put some credit on your sleep account. So, when you're going to get to party for New Year's Eve, instead of taking you 3 days or 4 days to recover, it's going to take you probably 2 or 1 because you already have some reserve in your sleep pattern. You know, this is the thing of everything you do in life, from diet to exercise to calorie in, calorie out, to sleep. People always count on a daily basis. You should never do that. How many calories you eat per week? How many steps you do per week? How many hours you exercise per week? How many hours you sleep per week? If you do that per week, because per month is a bit too heavy to handle, but if you do that per week, you will never be stressed by anything. Most people are stressed because they didn't do the 10,000 steps today, because they ate 3,000 calories today and they are freaking out. But if you eat 3,000 calories on Monday and you intermittent fasting one day or two days, and at the end of the week you have your account and you're just a bit of a deficit, and that's fine. And even there, you know what, we're counting one another thing of lifespan. We're counting calories. We should not even count calories. We should count nutrients.

Yes, I love that. So important. And if I hear someone saying counting calories, I'm always concerned. I'm like, are we still in the 1980s?

Yeah, exactly. But you see so many people because the trackers are counting calories, how many calories you burn, how many calories you eat, how many calories. We need to shift that out to, to, yeah, nutrients and not even macros, but nutrients.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, that's another business idea for someone listening. Yeah, how do you start?

I think actually a guy came to me and said like, uh, would you like to invest in this company, uh, where we have an application that counts nutrients? I would like— that's, that's really clever. Yeah, yeah.

How does it work?

Well, I don't know, I haven't looked at the pitch. Come on, cut that because it's gonna I'll cut it in.

No, no, no.

Okay. I'm just kidding.

Yeah, no, no, I'm curious. This is my entrepreneur thing.

Actually, yeah, you know what, very curiously, I think that his goal was like to allow people to make their grocery list made out of nutrients. Like instead of going to buy 2 tomatoes and this, you're going to buy I don't know, 100 grams of vitamin C and, uh, yeah, yeah, iron.

Yeah, that's excellent.

It's quite cool. Good.

Yeah, with AI you can do— probably put this together pretty fast, I would say. Yeah. Okay, so, Jean, what is exciting you most about the future of lifespanning, and where do you see the lifespanning movement in, say, 5 to 10 years?

Well, I hope that it's going to be faster than that, but I really see some sort of breakthrough happening worldwide where, like you said, the Maha Movement is out there making noise and many people are involved into it more and more. So, if people start to understand that living longer is a simple thing. The Maha movement is like getting healthier, but look at it, getting healthier is actually one of the building blocks of living longer. So, it's a part of the lifespanning movement, being healthier. Now, add to that some behaviors that are very simple, I'm amazed to see how many people know today that they have to look at the sun in the morning. Thank you, Andrew Huberman, for educating the world. He made— what Andrew Huberman has done is also part of helping the lifespanning movement, making people aware that it's simple to optimize your life. So I'm dreaming of seeing the next generation because it's going to be harder to change our generation, older generation, and maybe the millennials are still open to it. And going down the road, the other generations are already there. They're already aware about what could be lifespanning at large. Implementing it, it's a different thing, but they have it in mind. Like, I know that some young kids are vaping, but when you ask them, are you going to vape your life? No, I'm vaping, but by the age of 22 or 23, I'll stop because I know it's not good. But today I know that my body is recovering fast and I can afford it. So I like that. You know what? Enjoy it because you have a life. It's okay.

Condoning vaping for everybody listening.

Yeah, I'm not recommending vaping, but I mean, like, the mentality of knowing that some things you do today can harm you, but temporarily, it's fine. It's fine to— at least you know it, and you know that you're gonna stop. So you already set your mind that you're not going to keep going that way. And most kids, again, for vaping, when you ask them that, they say, If you vape after 25, loser. You should not. You look like a loser. So it's the whole mentality of these kids that are— is probably shifting the movement. And this kid, they're going to be in 5 years from now, they're going to be in between 20 and 25. And those are the ones that will keep going and maybe have kids and educate the future. So I'm very positive. I'm convinced that people are going to dedicate a bit of their time to live longer and better. And altogether, we're going to change this trajectory that is a pity to see. You don't want to end up in an hospital because you're 70. You really want to go outside and be able to walk and see your kids and lift them up and have them in your arms and hug them instead of, I can't do that and I need to walk with something. Yeah, I'm a big dreamer. I've always been a dreamer in my whole life.

So you and me both. Yeah. I mean, look, I firmly believe it's possible and it's just, you know, helping people to understand that it is and giving them access to information. I'm always about, you know, empowering people to go down the rabbit hole to read quality research, to understand what is possible, what is not. Unfortunately, there's a lot of noise out there and fearmongering and— man. Yeah, don't get me started. Yesterday Amy was posting, Cailin was about HRT and someone's like, oh, it's because they're eating ultra-processed food that their hormones are off. She's like, there's nothing to do with the food. It's a natural process that hormones change over time, etc. So I think it's empowering people to make wise literature or reading choices of quality material to understand what is possible and then believing themselves. And then, as we were saying before, set yourself up to win, set small goals, small steps.

Yeah. And it falls back to education. But once again, we flip back to what we were saying at the beginning of of, of this podcast is like, this is not the dream of a man. It has to be achieved by everyone. And the profit of living longer is not going to come to me because I created Lifespanning. It's going to come to you because you're going to live longer, and to your kid and your family. There is no ego in that, in the process. It's just like, I want this knowledge to be out there and awareness of people and altogether the education can be done in a way like today if a parent tells his kid to do something, most of the time there is rejection when they are teenager, which is a normal thing. But if the friend of the kid tells to do that, the other kid will do it. So if we had a lot of kids knowing, "Oh, we should go outside in the morning and walk a bit in the sun before going to school or go to school by walk instead of having mom to drive me because it's not that far." And, "Oh, it looks cool to do it." When I was a kid, you were a loser if you were walking to school. But today, kids, they would love to walk. And, if they teach the other kids, "Oh, let's walk to the school because we're going to have the sun and everything," It's going to be a big change. And without knowing it, everybody is going to be a Lifespanner.

Love it. Yeah. Do you have some time for some rapid-fire questions, Jean?

Yeah, sure. Yeah.

So do you have a favorite quote or piece of advice that was a real game changer for you?

It all starts from your mind. That's the thing. So the The piece of advice is put your mind into the perspective that everything is possible. Yeah. Everything.

Limitless.

Limitless. Everything. Everything is really possible. Yeah.

Yeah. What has been the biggest challenge you've faced over, let's say, the last last 5 years, and how did you overcome it?

I'm going to be very honest on that. Getting older was a challenge at first, because when you start to notice that your body is not as energized as you were in the 20s, and you refute it like I did. So you put everything in, in motion to make sure that your body is lying to you. That was my biggest challenge, telling my body that is a liar, that my brain knows that I'm 28, but I want my body to be 28. So how do I do that? And that is a freaking challenge to have, but I love challenges. And this is it. Today I don't have that, but I still have the perspective I said before is I don't want to get older like the people are getting older around me. And I want to challenge these people to change their mindset and the way they are. As I did for me, from who I am today. Yeah.

Amazing. Jean, what have you gotten better at saying no to?

Right?

We discussed this briefly before, be it distractions, invitations, and what new approaches maybe helped with that. And any tips for people who are looking to have more time in their lives?

Oh, you know what? It's interesting because the no is a magical word. Yep. You ignore it. It's a negative word, but it has actually a very positive effect on you and your brain, on your neurotransmitter and endorphins and serotonin and everything. Um, I was among the people that would always say yes to everything and submerged by meetings solicitation, help, involved in listening to BS because I was not capable of saying— I've been there.

Yeah, I know.

Yeah. So you become the confidant of— Yeah, you're the confidant of everyone and everybody wants to be with you, everybody wants to meet with you, everybody wants your time, but your time is actually, you know, when people ask me, are you free tomorrow? And I always answer, no, tomorrow I'm still expensive.

Expensive, why? I'm wondering what the correlation is. Well, is that what you're trying to say?

No, well, I mean, like, if you want my time, I would usually say no to be able to have more time with myself. I've discovered that the time with yourself is the most important time you have on this planet and this existence, because it allows you to first understand who you are, understand the world around you, understand the people around you. Most of the time you are triggered by a reaction or a thought, a saying or something. But when you take the time to step back and analyze and put yourself in the perspective of being in the other shoes or in another situation, you understand the world differently. So having that time has a price and it's expensive. And that money to buy that time is no. When people ask you, can I meet with you tomorrow at 9:00 AM? No, I want to have my time for meditation. I want to have my time for going to the gym. I want to have the time to think about my day and then we can meet. And when people say, you should help me because of that, it has to be valid enough. Most of the time, why do you need my help? It's a no. And if the help is really required and and it's going to be helpful enough, then it's a yes. But most of the time, people are asking you advice and things, and they're not even using it. Like, you can spend an hour with someone asking you advice on how should I do that, how do I do that, and then you cross their path again the day after and they're doing the same shit.

And you're like, that wasn't a good investment of my time. And I think that's for people to realize, like, what is the most precious commodity? And it's your time.

Time, yeah.

And being able to filter better. And, um, I do this also with some clients as well, is to really get clear on, like, what is your true north? Like, what is that blueprint that you want for yourself? What is that vision? And just stay steadfast to that. Because if you don't have that clarity, that's when you start bobbing around and saying yes to everything, because you're like, oh, this is interesting, and that's interesting, and then all of a sudden super stressed out. And you don't know what you're doing. So I think having that true north, like you were saying for health, right? It's establishing the baseline, understand where you are and you can improve. And I think—

And the no. Yeah. And Claudia von Boeselager, the no is magical because once, even if it's a struggle to say no, when you say no and then you think about, oh, I just said no, you release so much endorphins that your day is going to be magical.

You already celebrate. You're like, yeah, yeah, here we go. I love it. So what has been your most exciting purchase over the last 6 months? And let's say something that's $100 or less or $200 or less. And I love specifics like brand and model, et cetera, where people can find it.

That's interesting because you know what, it's going to maybe sound arrogant on what I'm gonna say, but I'm sorry for that, guys. For the past 20 years, I've been so comfortable that when I wanted some things, I bought— I was buying it, and I was buying everything that was like around me. And I ended up by having so much crap accumulated that for a long time, I haven't bought anything.

I'm in this court too. I try to avoid buying stuff. Yeah, I actually try to avoid.

Exactly. And every time I step into my walk-in, I get rid of some clothes as well because I have too much stuff. And I'm trying to think about what did I buy recently that makes me be super proud of. And sorry, I don't have an answer.

I know it's figuring out some sort of health device. I mean, the thing with us being in this space—

That's the thing, you know, being— Yeah. But Claudia, being in this space, on the other side, most of the time I'm getting those tools to test. So, I don't even buy them. Yeah, so I'm privileged on that side, but I got very decent product and tools and supplements that came to me recently that are very interesting. And even this one, I didn't buy it, but it's probably one of the things that I would buy.

Yeah, yes, yeah, exactly. No, I think so too. So the Apollo Neuro, so shout out to our dear friend Dave and Catherine who just had a baby. I don't know if you know, but And this, you were mentioning before about a very interesting book. So, maybe this might be a purchase that you like. So, what is the book that you most gifted? Let's talk about the book.

So, it's about the jellyfish that live backward. And it's the title of the book, but it's very, very interesting to see the whole concept of life and longevity. And, the way that we are chasing some things that it's probably possible. Like some species on Earth live 200 years, some others live 2 months. And I'm learning a lot because I didn't know that the smaller you are as human, the longer you're going to live.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

I'm quite tall. I'm almost 5'11", as you know, 178.

Yeah.

And I don't know, there's different factors in that, right? Like I have a lower heart rate.

Yeah. But in general, yeah, yeah, it's statistics and it's the paradox of this longevity principle. Like bigger animals live longer, elephants, whales, and all these animals live longer than rats and rodents and rabbits and things like that. But inside of each species, like inside of the elephant, the smaller are living the longer. Inside of the whales, the smaller whales live longer.

Why?

It's because women live longer than men, for example, because they're in general smaller than men.

But what is it to do?

Less energy, heartbeat lower. Like you said before, all these things.

But I feel like you could hack, for lack of a better word.

You cannot hack your biology.

Yeah, no, but not your size. Not your size, obviously, unless you decided to amputate yourself. That's not what we're suggesting here at all. But I feel like with heart rate even, right, if you have certain breath practices, stress, right? So how do you, you know, you train your HRV to improve?

It's always statistical, you know. Those are statistics among species. So it's under— Yeah.

Longevity, lifespanning, biohacking community.

Yeah. No, no, no.

And so what was the best or most worthwhile investment you ever made? And it's not just in terms of money, which it can be, but also time or energy.

Lifespanning, the company Lifespanning, is probably the best investment. As you know my story, in '21 I sold my biotech company. I was supposed to stay 5 years minimum with a corporate company, the public company that acquired my company, and it was a scam from them. I was supposed to stay there for another about $5 million, and I said, like, is $5 million worth another 3 years of your life as miserable as you are, treated like shit by this company? A, or option Plan B is Miami. Yeah, going to Miami, creating the company and the dream of my life, helping other people and having a purpose in my life. That cost me $5 million, but I don't fucking care. And that's the best investment I've made in my life. I've never been as happy and in balance with my own self ever in my life. You know, I was chasing money my whole life, and when I was younger, I was very egocentric. I would have been a Brian Johnson younger. Back in the day, younger me, yeah, with the ego putting me in the front of everything. Today it doesn't count. What counts is your action and your imprint that you are going to leave to others to use. I think I said that in your podcast already, I don't fucking care about creating a legacy. What counts is what we're doing today is going to impact the future generation. And this is exactly what I'm doing today with lifespanning, is impacting the world and impacting future generations. And I have no ego and I don't care that people remember my name or not. It's not important. As long as they implement the life planning and they are life spanners, that's it. Yeah. That's so the best investment was that taking the choice of saying no, by the way.

That's super important. No, I just saw that Tim Ferriss is bringing out a 500+ page book about saying no.

I love it.

And taking some of his different guests and things like that as well. It's been 5 years in the making, but I'm excited.

I need to read that. Yeah.

Yeah, it's not out yet. It's not out yet, but it's coming. It's coming as well. So what advice would you give your 20-year-old self? And what advice should be ignored?

The advice that should be ignored is, it's not possible. When people tell you it's not possible to do that, or you should do that, or just like follow your gut, follow your feelings, follow your, your, your deep deep inner thinking. You know, I'm convinced that we are really energy and we live in different parallel worlds. And there is like, people are always like, there's no free will. Yeah, there is. Yeah, yeah, every day. Yeah, every day. And I think that the best advice that I would give myself when I was 20 is whatever you do, keep going and keep doing it. It's not about the destination that counts. It's a quote that is very easy and used by many people, but it's a great quote. It's not the destination that counts, it's the journey. And it's true. When I was 20, I was dreaming about starting my own company. I started it at 23 and I went bankrupt. I sold my second and I had 12 businesses in my life. And then, I worked for corporate America and now I'm doing Lifespanning. I always kept my dreams or targets as motivation for a daily wake-up and like moving from one day to the other, achieving something. So the advice on that is like, yeah, keep going. No one will ever know if you are right or wrong because we live in different dimensions that sometimes others will see and perceive it as wrong. But if you feel that it's right, do it. And whatever, you lose, you win, you lose, you win. That's the beauty of life. You cannot always win or always lose. Like some people are very negative and they're people like, I'm— my life is miserable, I'm always this and that. It's not true. You can change that. Start by your attitude. Yeah, yeah. Like, don't— exactly.

Yeah, it's a choice. It's a choice.

It's the choice how you— like, how you take something. Is it a setback or is it just like a lesson? Yeah, yeah.

I mean, look at Edison, right? He didn't make 10,000 mistakes. It was just on the path to getting the 10,001 ways ways to figuring it out. And a mentor of mine told me once, he said, you look at the world's most successful people, like, they have all failed many times, but it's how quickly you can pick yourself back up again and continue and move on and sort of dust yourself off and be like, okay, that didn't work, but let me try it this way. And you just keep going, as you're saying as well.

So yeah, one of the best lessons of my life was being bankrupt after my first company. I was like, everybody was like, oh, you moved to Canada and you started your first company, you went bankrupt, it's over, you're finished. So like, no, no, I live in Miami now.

Exactly. To be continued. I love it, John. For my listeners interested in understanding lifespanning or even longevity better, what are some online resources or books that you would recommend they could start with?

Oh, you know what, my upcoming book, "From Biohacking to Lifespanning: Change Your Trajectory." It's on the final step of revision from the publisher. It's going to go out in the market in about 6 weeks. And, yeah, thank you. It's the story. So, that's my second book and it's the story of everything I said here from when I started and the struggle of being an early biohacker, having a life, having a kid in between. She's 20 today. Happy birthday, Noé.

Happy birthday.

Yeah. And so, I wrote a book and I explained people that this is it. Lifespanning is simple, is very simple. You don't have to struggle. And it's from basic pillars. One of them is sleep.

And I think that that's the beauty, just to add it as we finish up today, the importance of realizing simplicity is key. We overcomplicate things.

On everything.

And what about just peeling back the layers and going back to simplicity and being in nature, being slow, putting technology away for periods of time. Don't watch the news. News. You know, people are like, oh, it's so crazy what's going on in the world. I'm like, switch it off. Yeah, as important it is to know, you know, that there are things going on, it's also as important to keep your, your mental state and yourself sane for those around you and for yourself as well.

So, and give a hug to your loved one. It's so important. You know that? Yeah, giving a hug, and especially for women, there is a publication that came up yesterday. Yeah, increase your immunity.

Something on it. Yeah. So women need definitely hugs, but I think everyone needs hugs. And I think it's like 8 hugs a day, Jean. So how many hugs you've managed?

Yeah. Can I say no?

No, you don't like to be hugged?

No, no, I do love— yeah, yeah, yeah. It was funny because about the hugs, on, on a personal note, you know that I, I always challenge science on everything I do. And I was reading a publication that said like there is something in the brain that at 21 seconds triggers the love hormone when you hug someone.

Oxytocin.

Yeah. And I was like, is that true? Does it work with everybody that you hug for 22 seconds?

Somebody you don't really like is a bit like—

Yeah. So try.

Have you been testing this in Miami?

Yeah. All right. Now I'm super successful.

He's like, oh, it's the hugger.

Come here. 21 seconds. Yeah, everybody's calling me now.

If it worked, go for it. And you know what's really interesting? Mindy Peltz, I had the pleasure of meeting earlier last year and was listening to her Fasting Like a Girl, and she was talking about the cascade of hormones. And so for reproductive hormones, the testosterone, the estrogen, the progesterone, etc., if there's cortisol present, so that's kind of the master hormone above it, it, it will eliminate the function, which makes sense, right? So if you think of evolution, you're not going to be thinking about reproduction if you're in fight or flight mode, right? But what's on top of cortisol, how do you dissolve cortisol, is oxytocin. And that triggers the whole cascade to start working again. So I loved that analogy of if you can trigger oxytocin, you can relieve cortisol. So you have obviously the devices, but focusing on oxytocin-producing things hugging for 21 seconds. Oh yeah, that will need to look at this research. Um, is just beautiful ways of knowing how to de-stress, um, as well.

So yeah, yeah, and it will bring peace to the world as well. Like, instead of, uh, fighting, we should hug.

Yeah. Yes, here's some more of that. Jean, where can people learn more about what you are up to? Social media, website? And we can link everything for folks.

So ideally, uh, they can go on lifespanning.com, like, uh, on my t-shirt or jeanfadakara.com, same as my website. But on Instagram, I'm under Cyborg Gains.

I've never asked you about the origin actually of that.

Oh, you know what, very funny. It's because when I started to do calisthenics and I was so like, I was freaking out about mastering my body. So I was putting everything in motion to be able to do all these crazy moves. And when my trainer and a team of other guys, we were working out and they were just like, this is impossible how fast you learn. And I just turned and I said like, well, it's because I'm a cyborg. I have a chip here and I process information, then my body does it. And then came back to the gym and of course everybody was calling me cyborg. Cyborg, you made gains again. And I go like, this is going to be my Instagram, Cyborg Gains.

And now it's stuck all these years later. Yeah, that definitely was worth it as well. Jean, do you have a final ask, recommendation, or any parting thoughts or message for my audience today?

Yeah, go outside in the morning and get some sleep.

Thank you so much, dear Jean, for coming back on today. And for you, dear audience, for listening. I hope you enjoyed it and feel free to reach out with any questions or otherwise on the Lifespanning movement.

Thank you, Claudia von Boeselager. It was a great pleasure.