Why Gut Health is So Important and How to Improve It | Lucinda Miller

Some people call the gut the second brain because of the neurotransmitter production. Some people call it the second immune system because it helps to control immunity. It's really key for the rest of our health.

And now a quick word from our sponsors. Thank you so much for your support as it helps keep our content free for everyone. This episode is brought to you by InsideTracker. Do you want to join me and have more healthy years? Not just a longer life, What the ability to do things you love in your 60s, 70s, 80s, and beyond? InsideTracker can help you optimize your healthspan so you live healthier longer. Something, as you know, I'm a huge advocate for. They do this by providing personalized plans based on your body's data. InsideTracker tests your blood, DNA, and can sync with your fitness tracker. Then provide clear, science-backed recommendations like nutrition, exercise, supplement, and lifestyle recommendations. InsideTracker recently added hormone testing to their plan, which already includes important markers like ApoB, the heart health indicator, vitamin D, magnesium, cortisol, and many more. They cover 47 biomarkers in total. You can also test your DNA and even get your inner age, which is a biological age calculation, along with recommendations on how to lower your inner age. InsideTracker is offering you, dear audience, a special deal. Get 20% off by going to my link, insidetracker.com insidetracker.com/claudia20 to get the deal. That's insidetracker.com/claudia20. And now back to the show.

My guest today is Lucinda Miller. Lucinda is a naturopath and trained in functional medicine. She is the clinical lead of Nature Doc and runs a team of UK-wide nutritional therapists specializing in family nutrition. Her passion is supporting people with a neurodivergent brain through nutrition, through her clinic, books, blog, and an online course. She has been practicing as a naturopath for over 20 years and is the author of the bestselling cookbooks The Good Stuff and I Can't Believe It's Baby Food. Lucinda, it's such a pleasure to welcome you on the Longevity and Lifestyle Podcast today.

Claudia, thank you so much for inviting me on. It's just great to chat to you.

Yes, I'm very excited to dig in, and I'd love to start with How gut health affects brain function.

I think that we all realize that when we eat our food, that will nourish the whole of our body and our brain. And I think that most people will have a really efficient system. So that means when you eat your breakfast, probably 90% of that food will be digested, absorbed. You're going to get You know, the iron, the vitamin C, the magnesium, whatever it is from that food. And then you'll just pass out into the loo the bits that you can't absorb. However, what we find in a lot of people, especially neurodivergent people and people with mental health challenges is, or even just chronic illness, is that there is some compromise with that digestive tract., and that could be that, you know, they don't have enough stomach acid to break down protein. It may be that their pancreas, that's meant to break everything down into the small components, isn't working as efficiently as it should do, and that means that even if you have the best diet in the world, it can mean that less of those nutrients are going into the bloodstream and ultimately to the cells, and that more are staying in the gut and then ultimately being passed down into the loo. And there are many other factors within the gut that can enhance that digestion. So it's not just the kind of acids and enzymes. There are also, there's something called the gut microbiome, and that again helps to control how we make neurotransmitters, which are the hormones in our brains that help us think and learn and sleep and stay calm, et cetera. And they also make B vitamins, and they also help to control something called inflammation. And, um, inflammation is something that if it builds up in the system can lead to chronic disease. It can, you know, make the aging process more, more faster. It can, you know, all sorts of things can happen. So it's important to get all of these things right. So the gut is really key. So it's not just a hose that goes from one end to the other. There's an awful lot of systems that go on. And some people call the gut the second brain because of the neurotransmitter production. Some people call it the second immune system because again, it helps control your immunity. So it's really, really key, key for the rest of our health.

What would you say are some of the key factors for people who are maybe struggling with gut health issues? How should they ascertain, you know, where their gut health is? What would you recommend? Where should they start?

So let's start sort of at the top. So obviously, if someone really struggles with chewing, So maybe they wolf their food down too fast, or they just, as I said, they've got problems with their teeth, etc., then there can be an issue with just simply they're not breaking down those foods at the beginning, so there's a lot more pressure further down. Then if there's not enough stomach acid, so stomach acid is this really strong acid that you might feel sometimes if you get a bit of reflux, and that primarily helps with digesting protein. It also sends signals to the gut to absorb things like iron, B12, calcium, magnesium, and zinc, all those really important nutrients for bones and brain and energy and so forth. So if that's not working really well, it's going to make it harder further down to break things down. So then you've got the pancreas, as I said, which breaks down, um, these foods with enzymes. But, you know, if there's a fault along the way, then guess what? There's going to be a problem with the digestion and you're not going to optimize your nutrition. So as I said, you can have the best diet in the world, but if that digestion's not working well— and I think the signs that you might have to think that your digestion isn't working well is possibly reflux, possibly some sort of pain or bloating, whether it's sort of in the stomach, which is just between your breastbone, or just below, which is more sort of the small intestine. Where most of the absorption occurs, or further down. So there's problems with, say, constipation, etc. But I think one sign that a lot of people find if they've got poor, something called malabsorption, so poor digestion, is that they might see undigested food in their stool quite regularly. And obviously everyone has sweetcorn in their stool, but if they eat lots of sweetcorn, but it is other foods as well, and that can be a sign, or if it's very pale yellow. So almost sort of like an ochre yellow color, then again that can highlight there's a lot of fat in the stool, which means the fat hasn't got through to your system, which we need these oils and fats for our brains and our hearts and so forth. So that may be a sign that there may be some malabsorption going on.

And so how should that best be tested? What would you recommend if someone's listening and like, okay, yes, I have bloating, there's constipation at times, where, where would you send them to?

Where should they go? First of all, I would see their medical doctor, see the GP if they're in the UK, medical doctor throughout the world. And I would say that definitely just ask for a basic stool test to check for gut inflammation, possibly, you know, a parasite or a nasty bacteria, and also something called celiac disease. And celiac disease is an autoimmune condition where you have a reaction to gluten., which can cause malabsorption in the gut and cause these sort of fatty yellow stools. So those are the sorts of things that should be checked out. If nothing comes up with those tests, then someone like a nutritional therapist, functional medicine doctor, naturopath like myself, or one of my nature docs in my team can help to organize a full stool test. And that would, um, just test for things like greater inflammatory markers, other kind of microbiome issues or malabsorption issues. And then once you've got that information, then you can be very targeted. But, you know, some people can't stretch to that. I totally understand that, you know, they, that, you know, some people don't have the time, capacity, the money to be able to stretch to that. So some things that you can do to really help is to chew your food really well. Is to be mindful, you know, so sit down when you eat rather than eating food on, on the run. Also, just simple things like, um, 25% of your gastric juices are created by smelling food. So if you're cooking in the kitchen, those digestive juices will have got cranked up. And if you've got a child who's a little bit fussy or quite have a limited diet, then it's quite good to get them to be sitting in the kitchen whilst you're cooking, or get them involved in the kitchen so that they've got those kitchen bells, and that again will help to rev up their digestion.

That's a great, uh, idea. Beautiful. You mentioned about chewing. Can you break that down a little bit? My audience loves specifics. What is the right way to chew food?

Well, I think that if you went to one of the famous detox retreats, they'd be asking you to chew each mouthful 30 times. I think that's quite hard for anyone to do on a daily basis and probably quite, you know, unrealistic. Um, I think the big thing is to think, when I've eaten that food, is it mushed up enough to think that's going to help with my digestion? So with some foods, so something like soup, you might just need to— a couple of chews just to sort of break it down a little bit. That's all you need. Or smoothie, same. But with something like a piece of meat, like a piece of steak, then you'd want to chew it quite a lot to really break it down. Otherwise there's a lot of pressure further down to do the job. So really it's— I don't like being too prescriptive, but I think it's using common sense to think is— so what happens is when the food's in the stomach, it— imagine a bit like a washing machine, it goes churning round and round and round and round and round and round, and it turns into something called chyme, which is kind of a soup-like mixture. So you don't, you know, so that's really what you're, if you can get that food to that kind of texture before you swallow it, then that's going to put less pressure on your stomach and it's going to be able to do a really good job quite quickly. But you know, you know, as I said, at the end of the day, you know, just sort of think, you know, did I just swallow down a whole load of nuts without chewing properly? And if so, it's probably going to cause a little bit more distress on the gut than if I chewed them well or I had some almond butter or I had ground almonds, which have broken them down already.

So the goal is really to have a sort of soft paste, if you will, from the mouth so that it's easier farther down.

Absolutely.

Yes, absolutely. You touched on the word parasites before, and I know when some people hear the word parasites, they're shocked and, no, and it couldn't be me, and et cetera. And now that people are again traveling more and living in different places, I know personally I was shocked when I was turned positive to have not only a couple parasites but also H. pylori. This is going years back now as well. I mean, I've lived in places like Buenos Aires and Shanghai, and I like to travel in third world countries, so I'm not totally surprised, but still a little bit shocked. So for people who may or may not have parasites, you know, what is it to look out for? Are all parasites bad, or are some just normal part and parcel? Can you expand a little bit on that?

Well, the reality is that pretty much everyone is carrying some sort of parasite. However, it's probably only a very small part of the gut microbiome, and therefore it hasn't taken over and causing a problem. So a significant parasite that can cause long-term problems is something called Giardia, and Giardia is a microscopic parasite that's usually picked up through water and contaminated food. Often, you know, when people go trekking or something like that. And that is very distinctive in that you usually lose a lot of weight, usually have very sort of sulfurous, eggy belches and farts. And yes, you do usually feel pretty unwell. And so that's quite obvious. Sometimes what happens is you have that period where you feel unwell, and then it sort of settles in. And so that's where you can have longer-term sort of malabsorption issues, like everything I eat, I just don't get the energy from it. I feel really kind of tired after eating. So it's often parasites can— if you think they steal nutrients from the food you're eating, they love iron, they love zinc. Iron gives you energy, zinc, you know, is a very important healer, so it helps skin. It helps with, you know, kids to grow. It helps, you know, with your gastric juices. It's, you know, so very often things just slowly start to shut down. I mean, obviously some people do experience worms, um, but I think they probably realize if they had those because there would be, you know, itching or wiggling or whatever. But that tends to be threadworm more than anything, and those are easily treated by the canthar parasite. Treatments. Um, but I'd say what tends to be more prevalent amongst people with kind of low-grade gastric issues are a couple of parasites. One's called Blastocystis hominis, and one's called Dientamoeba fragilis. And these have been identified as potentially being part of an IBS picture. So that could be, you know, like a loose picture or a more constipated picture or an altering state of bowel or gut pain. And that is very often what people are diagnosed with when they go and have some sort of gastric kind of investigation. It's because they haven't found the inflammatory bowel and they don't know what it is. And it's often these microscopic— as I said, they're very difficult to detect and they're not tested in the UK. As a matter of fact, when you go to, say, a medical doctor and, you know, would have a stool test, and they are tested if you go to, say, the Hospital of Tropical Diseases and you have significant symptoms. There seem to be different strains of these, especially the Blastocystis, and I think the ones in Asia tend to be harder on the gut than some of the more European ones, and this is why in Europe it's not seen as such a problem, because those strains don't seem to cause so many problems. Now, You speak to some professionals and they'll go, you know what, blastocystis is good to have because it can help with that blood sugar after a meal. However, there's other studies to show that in adults, um, it can cause poor executive function. And executive function is something which is a real struggle for lots of people. You know, it's getting organized, it's, um, you know, being able to just get your day together, um, is, you know, it could be a real challenge. Lots of brain fog and so forth. And you know, these are parasitic in nature. So as I said, they can steal nutrients from the food you're eating, the good food you're eating. So, you know, a lot of people do end up finding these parasites and thinking, well, you know, I do think that this could be why I'm feeling so tired and my gut's out of sync, et cetera. And actually working on those can make quite a difference.

So you mentioned about neurodiversity and, and gut health. Can you expand on the link there and what you are seeing, and for some people maybe who are, say, struggling with ADD, ADHD, or, you know, autism spectrum condition or otherwise, what are the obvious links with gut health and what can be done?

So this is really interesting and something that we do an awful lot of work with at Nature Docs. So we see a lot of kids and adults with autism, ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia, sensory processing disorder, etc., etc.. And quite a lot of the time we will either do a stool test or there's a urine test that checks for vitamins and minerals as well as gut. So you kind of want one or, one or both of those tests. And almost always there is some degree of, you know, imbalance in the gut. And you think, well, maybe the general population will have that too. Well, possibly. However, The neurodivergent brain tends to be very sensitive, very sensitive to, and it's very difficult to get the balance. So for instance, with ADHD, there are genetics involved which can mean that it's very, very difficult to regulate dopamine, very, very difficult to regulate norepinephrine, for instance. And so if your brain is that sensitive to that, then any other sort of minor disruption can, you know, exacerbate that. So in terms of gut health, there are— it's, it's basically a massive, massive part of science that is emerging. You would not be able to go to a pediatrician, as far as I'm aware, definitely not in the UK, but I would say worldwide, and say, hi, I'd like to do a microbiome test. But you can do them privately, if you see what I mean. So even though the research is there, it's still not there as part of mainstream. However, you know, even— I mean, because of the pandemic, etc., I'm a little out of date on how many papers, because obviously the paper's got, you know, there was delays in papers being published and so forth. But in 2019 alone, there were 16,000 papers published on the gut microbiome linking to all sorts of things from neurodiversity to Parkinson's to dementia, etc. I mean, huge, huge amount of research. And why is this the case? Is that this gut microbiome helps to make your neurotransmitters, and neurotransmitters are sort of these brain hormones that help us learn, think, sleep, keep us happy, etc. So we've all heard of serotonin. Serotonin, 90% of serotonin is made in the gut, and this helps us sleep, helps us keep happy, and helps us poop. Okay, so without enough serotonin being made in the gut, then, um, which is not going to end up in the brain. So basically it gets made in the gut and then people think that probably it's heading up through the vagus nerve to the brain. But you know, but the gut is seen as this sort of second brain. But equally, other neurotransmitters, so dopamine for instance, which is a key one for ADHD, that is made in the gut, um, by things like bacillus. And bacillus is a really important bacteria that, um, you can get from eating lots of cultured foods. So things like sauerkraut, kimchi, etc. Kefir, water kefir, etc. And all of these foods help to nourish and make dopamine. The other one that makes dopamine is actually a type of E. coli. So we all hear of E. coli being a bad bacteria that makes you have UTIs, etc., but there's actually good E. coli which has been known for, for over 100 years. It was, it was first found in Berlin over 100 years ago. And so it's one of the most well-established bacteria in the gut. And again, that's really enhanced by eating a Mediterranean diet. So that's fruits, vegetables, salads, pulses, whole grains, lots of healthy meats and healthy fats and so forth, eggs, herbs, spices, etc. And so, you know, this is where the nourishing through food to nourish the gut bacteria then therefore makes the dopamine. But you know, the gut bacteria also makes other neurotransmitters. So we've all heard of lactobacillus. It's in yogurt, it's in kefir, it's kind of in every probiotic you'll probably ever buy almost. And lactobacillus helps to make acetylcholine. And acetylcholine is important for working memory, learning, self-regulation, emotional regulation. Now you can create acetylcholine through your diet, choline-rich foods, things like eggs, liver, et cetera. But you know what, I don't know many kids who will eat liver these days. My daughter. Eggs have a funny texture, you know, you know, you know, you can see where these things are not necessarily coming in as a normal part of the diet. So, you know, if you've got poor gut bacteria and you know it's not coming through the diet, you're gonna really struggle to make that acetylcholine, which is critically important for the neurodivergent brain. And then Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium, which is the other one that everyone's probably heard of. That's, it's brilliant. It makes B vitamins, it brings down inflammation, it helps with immunity. It's like stops you getting super infections. Bifido is amazing stuff. But the bifido and lactobacillus also make something called GABA. And GABA is our inner yogi. It's our cool, it's our calm. It's that feeling you have having had a lovely meditation session or a massage or yoga session, you feel amazingly zen-like. And, um, you know, again, if you don't have enough of those gut bugs, then you're not going to make enough of those. And guess what? So if you don't have enough GABA, you become anxious, you can't sleep. So, um, you know, there's an awful lot of people in this constant fight-or-flight state that are also neurodivergent. So I'm not saying these things make the ADHD or make the autism or, you know, this dyslexia or the dyspraxia. What they do is they contribute to making, you know, everything a little bit about it worse, you know. So there's more anxiety, the working memory is not so good, the processing's not so good. So it's kind of exacerbates it because we all know absolutely genius, amazing neurodivergents who've done incredible things. I mean, most people that rule the world right now in terms of industry or creativity or sport are neurodivergent. So you can be amazing, but there are an awful lot of people who have neurodivergence and they're 2 to 3 to 5 years behind with their learning, you know, a lot of non-speaking, really struggling with their mental health. Can't sleep, can't form a relationship. You know, there's a lot of difficulty when comes alongside, you know, neurodivergence. And so our work is very much there to help to kind of even out those tricky sides to it so that you can really thrive with your neurodivergent brain. And getting gut health is so important. And the trouble is our diet is really, really key to feeding, as you heard, for the Mediterranean diet, the cultured food. Um, but with GABA, you know, GABA-rich foods are amazing— things like chamomile tea, oats, yogurt, um, even cups of tea. So green tea, matcha tea, even black tea all contain something called theanine. Theanine's great for your GABA. So, um, but the trouble is the opposite to that is all the highly processed foods. So the ultra-processed foods, that is a big buzzword right now, and those all contain something called glutamate or glutamic acid. So all the processing, like the yeast extract, citric acid, you know, all these sort of additives often contain high levels of glutamic acid, and that's the opposite to GABA. So that makes the brain really excited, which is great in terms of learning sometimes, but it can make the brain go too fast. And so many people with ADHD, their brain works far too fast. It's like they cannot process things because everything jumps too quickly. It's like jumping ahead. It's like their brain's just full of so many exciting things, and actually they need the GABA to calm them down. And if they've got glutamate from that, you know, takeaway pizza or a packet of crisps or whatever, that's going to really imbalance things. So when you are in a high glutamate state, you can be very anxious, you might not sleep, you might have very risky behaviors. So again, you've got these kids who are hyperactive, they get into addictive tendencies, you know, whether it's gaming, nicotine, alcohol, drugs, you know, online, whatever it might be. You know, these things can, and especially in the teenage brain, is really big. So that's where you need— that's an indicator that there's too much glutamate and not enough GABA.

So that's a very long-winded, but it's something, as you can see, I'm rather passionate about. Well, and, and as we are here to, to find out more, so thank you so much for sharing that as well. And I think the beauty of it is that there is a way to solve it and to fix it, or to support it, I should say, not necessarily solve, but to have the awareness what is actually going on, the underlying and to act accordingly. What would you say are some of the essentials for improving gut health for someone who, you know, might be suffering a little bit or feels, you know, maybe chronic symptoms, chronic fatigue, something like that? We know a lot is interlaced with our gut. Where is a good place for people to start? Do you—

what are your top 5 recommendations? So the first one is to get outside as much as possible because our microbiomes are nourished by fresh air. There's a lot of great bacteria and all sorts of things in the fresh air, so getting out in nature is really important. If it's a child, getting them really muddy, you know, or, you know, spend time gardening with dirt. So it's okay to have dirty hands. Um, so those are really simple things you can do. And then with the diet, try your hardest to get fresh ingredients. It could be frozen ingredients, but, you know, fresh simple ingredients, cook from scratch, eat the best quality food you can and variety you can. So, and try and avoid those ultra-processed convenience processed foods because the problem with them is they're devoid in all the key nutrients that are so important for the brain and the gut. So, you know, they don't have iron, zinc, omega-3, you know, very little anyway., and it might just be with synthetic fortification as well. Secondly, um, you know, they displace— because you can't eat that much in a day, you know, if you're eating those, then it's going to displace the good, good things that are going to be nourishing the gut. Um, and thirdly, they're quite pro-inflammatory, so they use, as I said, these preservatives, emulsifiers, um, artificial sweeteners, and these are all known to disrupt the gut and cause some inflammation. So again, you want to avoid those ultra-processed foods and then pick out, just as I said, the best foods you can in terms of maybe a Mediterranean diet. You know, get out that olive oil, that garlic, make some pesto, you know, get some whole grains, lovely, you know, add some— have a lovely lentil salad with some sun-dried tomatoes and thyme. And, you know, really, you know, try and do everything fresh and joyous and tasty. But those are the sort of key things. And then, you know, you can think about cultured foods. Some people get on with them, some people don't. So it's really important not to go head-on with those and to be a little bit cautious. So I always think, let's start with a bit of vinegar, you know, a little bit of dressing on the salad, or a little bit of vinegar like balsamic in, in the bolognese, just to sort of add a little bit of vinegar., and then things like lemon juice and so forth, again on the fish or on the salad, the dressing, and that again helps with the digestion. Um, think about bitter leaves, things like, you know, lovely different kind of lettuces and salad leaves, all a little bit bitter, and that helps to stimulate digestive juices. So there's an awful lot of things that you can do gently and then think, well, actually, I might put a little teaspoon of sauerkraut on the side and see what I think of it, or a little bit of kimchi on my, on my noodle salad or whatever, and just see if you like it and if you suit it and if your gut likes it. Because sometimes you go a bit in too fast, you can get rather bloated and gassy, and some people are a little bit sensitive in terms of histamine, but that's, that's a very complex subject. But it's just something to just be cautious that it doesn't suit everybody. But I do think that. And if you've got an incredibly sensitive gut, start with quite more blended foods. So things like soups or slow-cooked stews, a little bit of omelette, soft fish, rather than going overboard with the sort of hard crunchy, you know, vegetables and hard nuts and things, just to give the gut a little bit of space.

A bit of chance to catch up. Yeah. Yeah. So we talked about some foods to focus on eating, but what would you say in terms of when to eat?

I think this is really personal, I'm going to say, um, and I, I'm not particularly dogmatic about this, um, especially because I guess we work very closely with lots of neurodivergent people who really struggle with maintaining a regular routine, especially the ADHDers. Um, so, you know, if someone's on medication for ADHD, for instance, that can suppress their appetite all day, so suddenly they're really hungry all evening. And you know, that medication probably has made such a difference to them during the day, you know, that actually, you know, that's okay to eat in the evening because they do need to get the nutrition in. And equally, you know, a lot of kids we see, they wake up in the morning so hungry because their blood sugars are so low. And actually, they really need nourishing first thing in the morning. So I don't— I'm, as I say, I said I'm not that dogmatic, but I think what it is, is if, you know, this is you thinking about yourself. So whoever's listening today thinking, you know, I really want to improve when I eat, is think, when are you most hungry? When does your body say you really need that nutrition? When does your stomach really, really ask for nutrition? And what are the times they don't? And sort of just almost diarize it over a week and just see, gosh, that was really interesting. You know? So, you know, I'm the sort of person, for instance, me, I'm very hungry in the morning. I could absolutely eat just till lunchtime and then not eat till the next day. Easy peasy. Um, some, again, lunch isn't so important for me, um, but breakfast is something I just cannot exist without. You know, it's just the way my body works. Now, that's opposite to many people's advice right now is, you know, wait until after midday to have your breakfast or your brunch. Um, try not to eat too late. I think that's the key. If— unless you are, as I said, on ADHD medication and you really are struggling to get your nutrition in, in the window when you do feel hungry— I'd say for the typical person to try and eat relatively early in the evening so that the food has been mainly digested before you go to bed, and that's not something your gut has to do overnight. Yeah.

What are some of the supplements, um, you think are very effective for gut health? I mean, personally, I obviously have probiotics, and I really try to have a diverse diet as well, um, as I specialize in this area. But I need to take digestive enzymes. I, I need support in breaking down foods. Um, what are some supplements that you'd say are pretty important for gut health?

Well, I'd say this isn't really a supplement, it's a food, but it's so important— is apple cider vinegar. I talked a little bit about vinegar just now, and, um, that can really help if people struggle with protein digestion or that sort of upper gut issue. It will either make you feel amazing, or if it feels a bit burny and a bit kind of difficult, then just take a little bicarb of soda and that will neutralize it. So sometimes people don't get on with it, but apple cider vinegar a really good beginning start.

One question on that: what's the best way to ingest apple cider vinegar? Because I've definitely done it the wrong way. So what would you recommend, just drinking it straight or mixing it with water?

What, what do you recommend? So I think probably the nicest way of doing it is in water with a little bit of apple juice, just to kind of give— or a little bit of honey, just to give it a little bit of sweetness. But to drink it through a straw straw because some people have a problem with their teeth enamel being broken down by the vinegar. So I would drink it down by a straw. And so I would definitely dilute it. I think it's too strong on its own. You can now, which I think you can get worldwide now, a little kind of apple cider vinegar drinks which are like, you know, a little kind of with nice sort of tasty flavors and things.

So, um, but yeah. And for those who, um, sort of pro tip with, uh, teeth enamel issues, I've actually invested in, and I have, and you can get them on Amazon even, are glass straws, which can really bypass then your teeth because I drink a lot of lemon in water and things like that as well. So I guess prolonged, my teeth would be decaying faster than most, which we don't want.

So yeah, glass straws are a great workaround. That sounds really great. I'll have a look at those. So then in terms of supplements, I do think digestive enzymes can make a massive difference if you feel there is some sort of maldigestion, malabsorption, um, and you feel you're not getting that full energy from the food you're eating. Um, and yeah, I think it can be a game changer. I do think that, um, going back to the stomach, some bitter herbs, um, are great. Um, you can get combinations of things like artichoke, turmeric, um, nettle, and so forth, which are really good at kind of settling the stomach. And then in terms of prebiotics, so prebiotics feed probiotics, so that they're— well, no, and if someone doesn't have an appendix, they've had their appendix removed, then it is thought that the appendix, even though no one thought it had any role whatsoever, that it was a channel for storing prebiotics so that there was always food for for the probiotics. So if you've had it removed, then you might need to consider having prebiotics on a regular basis. The great thing is lots of foods are prebiotic— bananas, chicory, things like that, you know, full of prebiotics, so they're great. Um, but, um, in terms of supplements, you can get prebiotic supplements, and these are great. So there's a particular one called PHGG, which is wonderful if you get a little bit constipated, and it's very gentle. So if someone's got a kind of very sensitive stomach, they need to be on, say, a low FODMAP diet, or, you know, they've got, you know, they just don't get on very well with most— that, that's a very good one to start with. And phage tends to feed most of the gut microbiome, so it helps with diversity. So it's a really good one. And then you've got the probiotics, as we've mentioned. Most of them tend to be Lactobacillus and Bifido of some combination. There are some more specific ones, but they'd be the ones that you would probably only go on if you knew you had that information from a stool test, and then you would go in with sort of more personalized probiotics. But those, you know, as I said, lactobacillus— what's great is that even though it's lactobacillus, it's got bifidobacterium. Okay, those are going to feed those two. It doesn't just feed those two. These two also help to feed the entire diversity of the gut microbiome. So it's almost like they all piggyback on each other and help to grow each other. So you don't have to think, oh my gosh, I've got to get, you know, the exact strain that my stool test has said. But I would say that it's a good way to identify if anything extra really needs a boost. Just a little tip from me is that we have run thousands of stool tests through our clinic over the years, and if someone said, what are the key things that come up, as in almost without a shadow of a doubt, very few people have Lactobacillus in their gut. So it's something that I would probably, if I didn't have a stool test to hand, I would definitely add in some Lactobacillus because I do think that that seems— Bifido seems to be a bit stronger. It seems to be— populate a little bit more easily, but lactobacillus seems to be really easy to wipe out, and that can be through antibiotics or whatever.

Okay, that's a very good point to start with. What about exercise and gut health? Are there any particular exercises or routines, would you say, that are very beneficial for maintaining a healthy gut?

Well, um, this is really from a child's perspective, but it can help adults as well. So a lot of adults and children experience constipation. Obviously things like, you know, herbs and probiotics and prunes and flax and things can help things to, to flow through, but a lot of people find that their peristalsis, their motility, is very sluggish for whatever reason, and they find it really difficult to eliminate. And often, because we work with neurodivergent kids, you've got the constipation and also you've got, you know, lack of speech, low tone in the mouth, difficulty chewing, etc. And so there are some exercises, but this is not the sort of exercise you'd anticipate me talking about. These are using a straw. So you talked about your glass straw. So basically, if you drink out of a straw— and I'd like everyone to try and just do this now— okay, what happens to your bottom. It tightens. Yeah. And then when you blow out of a straw, it, it relaxes. So basically when you suck out of a straw, it will help both your oral tone, so speech, chewing, et cetera, swallowing, but also help to trigger the bowel to say, ooh, I'd like to empty, please. And you can step that up by using you know, not just straws but whistles and blowers, and blowing up balloons is the hardest one, obviously. But this is really good for people who find it really difficult to pass a stool, and it can really help. So I know that wasn't what you were probably expecting me to say. It's a good exercise to know. Absolutely. But in terms of general exercise, you know, things like, you know, again, constipation, trampolining can be great at getting people going. And, you know, I think any kind of exercise again will help with this more constipated state. But, you know, I actually had someone this morning who got in touch saying that their child had a real problem because they got, you know, a loose bowel after doing a lot of exercise. And because exercise really, really speeds up the gut, so I think it's just important to think, you know, exercise can impact how fast things go through. I think the great thing about outdoor exercise is you're getting the benefit of breathing in this fresh air, this lovely— with the microbiome. So that's really, really helpful. And you're also sweating out the sort of, you know, the pollutants and things out of your system. So all in, it's a good way of— but I don't—

I haven't seen any sort of direct research specifically about specific exercise and specific microbiome support. Interesting area that needs to be researched, I guess, a bit more. I mean, we know exercise for the brain, and promoting BDNF as well, which we've talked about previously on the podcast. So important. But I think it's just getting everything moving, I guess, is one of the main points as well. What would you say are some of the biggest gut health myths? What doesn't work, or what do you sometimes hear and are just, you know, shaking your head saying this is completely false?

I'm going to say something you're probably not expecting is I don't believe in these myths. Whenever I read one on, say, Instagram, it makes my blood curdle. And the reason is, is because, you know, I've been doing this for 27 years. We've seen 7,000, 8,000 people through our clinic, and everyone has their own story. And I think it's really important to listen and to really understand that individual situation. Because we're all unique. And I think if someone says, you know, whenever I eat tomatoes, I get a loose bowel, you've got to take that into consideration rather than say there's no evidence that tomatoes can cause, you know, or whatever it might be. And it really— people with sweeping statements, you know, people are very good at making sweeping statements on their social media or whatever. And actually they're not thinking, they're thinking in a very narrow way. And it's a bit like diet, you know, people say you should eat this, you shouldn't eat that, this is the way you should wean your baby or whatever. And then you think, okay, if I wasn't in London right now, I'm actually in Wiltshire right now, but if you weren't in London right now, yeah, if I was sitting in Beijing or if I was sitting in Delhi or if I was sitting in Rio de Janeiro, I would have a completely different view on what I'd be eating because every country, every culture is different. And it's not like one culture's got it right, one culture's got it wrong. You know, some people, you know, I've got someone yesterday saying to me, you shouldn't recommend coconut oil, it's so bad for you, you know, it's so bad for your cholesterol. And, you know, think, well, that's, you know, how about most of Asia exist on coconut oil?. And they seem to be all right. Well, most of them, you know, some, yeah, some do have cardiovascular issues. Some do have cholesterol problems, but not all of them. And I just think people are very— this myth thing, it gets to me because I do think we are so individual and everyone needs to be heard. And actually this is why these individual stool tests are so important because they go, yeah, absolutely. You were probably absolutely right when you said that. 'And let's work with that,' because that's one, you know, one thing that really— maybe you've eaten that food 5 times, and each time you've eaten it, you've been on the loo for 2 days. You know, you're not going to want— you know, even if someone said that's not possible, it might be possible for them.

Yeah. So anyway, sorry to not have a myth to bust. No, but that, that's a perfect response as well. And I think, you know, every symptom is valid that people might have. And that's the beauty also of personalized medicine and having these tests, right, so that you know what your gut bacteria is like and your gut health, and then use that as the baseline to optimize it or just to solve any issues that might be there. So I completely agree on that point. And listen, how does improving your gut health, in your view, help you achieve a better well-being and being able to be then in a more peak performance state?

So I think that if you are optimizing your immunity, if you are optimizing your neurotransmitters, isn't that going to help you? So you are calmer, you are more focused, you sleep better, you are more relaxed, you are learning more easily. You are, you know, you are having better social contact, you are getting best, you know, you are just, everything is coming together. Then surely that's great, isn't it? So I think it's really worth doing it. But I think what's really important is gut health can help you on a daily basis, but also that long-term health as well. And I think it's really difficult to imagine, well, if what I eat today is going to help prevent, I don't know, breast cancer or something when I, in 20 years' time, that's very hard to take on board. But you can, if you think what I ate today gave me loads of energy, what worked? Whereas yesterday I felt really lousy. And was it because I hadn't slept very well or was it because I ate that? I don't know, sweet bagel or whatever it was at breakfast rather than my eggs. And to try and sort of just generally just look to see what patterns. And I think most people would say when they're having a day where they're low, they're slow, their gut is probably low and slow too, or sore or painful or just out of whack. And very often you can sense a sort of diff— different energy in your gut. When you are having a low or slow day.

And people to, to connect with that and think, what can I do to help my gut?

Are you familiar with continuous glucose monitors and, and what is your view of them? I have not tried one yet. My mum was both type 1 and type 2 diabetic. Oh wow. Which is quite rare. It was the first thing that I had to tackle when in my early twenties when I realized that life wasn't going in the right direction for for me in terms of my health. And it was the best bit of advice I'd ever been given, is to balance my blood sugars. I do that really quite well now, I think. And, um, every time I've been tested, you know, I've got good HbA1cs and all that. So I think I'm okay, but I would love to do one just to see. I know that for sure, if I was to eat a pizza, if I was to eat a banana, if I was to eat a whole load of grapes, I would be all over the shop because that's how I feel. So I've learned to connect with that. But I think a lot of people, when they're on the beginning of this journey, or they need reassurance that it's not just all there up in their brains, that they, that actually, I think it's a really good idea. I mean, you only need to do it for 2 to 3 weeks to really see a pattern. And you know, it's got to be a time when you are really there to focus because I think, you know, you've got to be able to say, gosh, I ate that and this happened to my blood sugar. So it's a time when you, you've got enough brain space to be able to do it rather than in a time when you've got a lot on your plate. Um, but I think, I think they're a really good idea and I think that more and more people will really benefit from that information. Yeah. And it's not prescriptive, you know, you'll, you know, you'll have days where your blood sugar without— just because you haven't slept very well or you've got a bit of a virus. So it's not just about the food, but I do think it's really good in terms of giving you a pattern to see, am I quite good at blood sugar balancing or am I all over the shop?

It is indeed. I mean, I did, um, I tried a few times myself. Um, there is in the UK, it is non-prescriptive. You can even order it on Amazon. Um, my preference is from Abbott Laboratories, the Libre Sensor 2. I think has the best readings for it. There are obviously more and more products coming out on the market in the US, and actually they're doing in beta here in the UK. It's called Levels Health. I've had them on the podcast as well, and they have a beautiful interface for interpreting your insights. And also, you know, you can even take a photo of your food while just before you eat it and then just make yourself like a memo and then you can just track your blood sugar. And for me, for example, one of the biggest insights. I was eating sweet potato and having like a sweet potato soup and assuming it was super healthy. And I was just watching my blood sugar go into the red and completely peak. So I eat it much more moderation now. I'm not completely cutting it out, but it's so personalized. And that's the beauty of personalized medicine as well. So very interesting.

Lucinda, if you could live to 150 years old, assuming excellent health, How would you spend your time? Hopefully with my great-great-grandchildren, um, and mixing with lots of wonderful, interesting, beautiful people. You know, I'm in my mid-50s now, and, um, you know, I'm lucky because I've got 3 kids, and, you know, I love hanging out with their friends. And we're very lucky, a lot of our clients are much younger. So yeah, you know what I mean? And we work a lot with teenagers with big mental health challenges, and I find them all fascinating, and I really buzz on that young mind. So I hope I'll always be in touch and not too frail to be able to have fun with them.

Brilliant.

Lucinda, what trends and developments in the longevity and health optimization space do you find most exciting? I think the microbiome testing And the personalized nutrition testing is so key, and I just, I'm excited that this is being opened up to a wider audience and more people are investing in this as a priority.

Um, and yeah, let's see what happens. It's exciting time, I agree. For my listeners interested in understanding gut health for longevity better, which online resources or books would you recommend they start with?

So I love the work of Ted Dinan and, um, Crinan, who are— they're based in Ireland. They've got a really good book called Psychobiotics, something like that, which is great. There's a very simple book called Gut.

I can't remember the author now. She's great.

I'll link it in the show notes. Yeah, we'll find it. Yeah, absolutely. Um, and so those are two really good— they would make a a really good start.

I think they're very accessible. Beautiful.

Where can people learn more about what you're up to, what you're doing, your social media or websites? So yes, so, um, our main website is naturedoc.com. We do have another website which is naturedoc.shop, which is a UK-based— we sell supplements and stainless steel water bottles and eczema creams and all sorts of things, everything very natural lovely. Um, and then I do Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, TikTok, and Facebook. And so you'll find us Lucinda Miller or Nature Doc or Nature Doc Kids, you know, they're slightly different handles. So yeah, you'll— Nature Health.

Um, so you'll find us, but basically type in Nature Doc and you'll find us. We'll link those in the show notes as well.

Lucinda, do you have a final ask, recommendation, or any parting thoughts or message for my audience today? I think be true to yourself. Don't hop on every little trend that's going. Just think, does this work for me? Because individualized nutrition, individualized gut health is the most important thing. And even if your twin is doing something, um, you know, it may not suit you.

So do something that you feel is right for you rather than something you should be doing. Beautiful.

Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today and sharing your wisdom, Lucinda. I appreciate it. Thanks, Claudia. It's been absolutely wonderful.