#121 How to Start A Business With NO Money | Blake Mycoskie (Founder of TOMS)

2 years ago, I started waking up at 3 in the morning and I want to kill myself. Underneath all of it was this belief that I'm not enough. The reason I'm bringing this up is it's the most important thing anyone can do who is suffering is—

if you think that you don't have mentally what it takes to lead a company, this guest is going to prove you wrong. We're talking to Blake McCoskey, who built TOMS, but maybe you don't know that he started out probably just like you and I— no cash, no credentials— and started not one company but a ton of them.

After I sold TOMS, I got depressed. I built like what I think is the perfect company. I gave 100 million children shoes. I made more money than I ever could imagine, and I felt empty. No matter what I did, no matter how much success I had, I just never felt that I was enough. When you feel enough, you have so much peace because then you can actually just be. In 3 days, we sold $100,000 worth of laundry services. Boom! Everyone signed up.

No big deal. That's wild. How many times do you think you've been rejected?

You can think of any celebrity that has had a mental health challenge. I have cold-called every single one of them now, and I only have 6 founding partners.

You want to call one of them out publicly? One of my favorite things about you, actually, that I didn't know is what you're not famous for, actually, which is all these other businesses that you started, and a lot of them You didn't even have a lot of money. Some of them, maybe you have money today, but you don't use money as like the main driver for growth. No. So I wanted to ask you, for somebody listening today who wants to start a business. Yeah. But thinks, I don't have the cash to do it, I don't have the credentials to do it, what would you tell that person?

I mean, first thing I would say is I often think a startup having money is like a detriment.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Like I never have raised money. In any business I've started. And I've always felt like if you can bootstrap it and prove and get customers and make it work, well, then you have, you know, a better chance of success. But I mean, Tom's— the entire company was started at $3,000. You know, I mean, my laundry business I started, I started for $500. My online driver's ed company that I started maybe was, I don't know, $1,500. So like, I've never actually— actually, the one business that I started that didn't work I spent a couple million dollars. Sorry, now that I think about it.

Yeah.

I started a habit formation company called Made For with a good friend of mine, Navy SEAL, amazing. We had Andrew Huberman as one of our advisors. Like, it was locked and loaded and I put $3.5 million in it. Zero today.

Wow.

Yeah.

I love that. 'Cause it's, we bootstrap all of our companies.

Yeah.

And I kind of think the same thing. It's like, you, you know, if you put a bunch of fuel on a fire that's going the wrong direction, it's not very good.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Were there things that you believed back then that now through multiple exits, selling a business for, you know, 50% at a $600 mil valuation, multiple businesses you started that you're like, that was such a lie that they told me starting out in business and now I know this to be the truth.

I think one of the things is that I don't think that having experience in an industry makes you more likely to have success. Because when you have experience, you kind of know the rules, so you don't have like the courage to break them, and you're limited. You already start with a set of beliefs that are limiting the innovation that you would have. Like, I started, you know, a cable television network, no experience in that. Driver's ed company, zero experience in that. You know, TOMS, obviously I'd never made a pair of shoes before. I was down in Argentina, you know, enough. I mean, now like I've never made bracelets and accessories. Like, so I actually think that's one of the biggest lies we're told is, is, is, you know, small businesses or entrepreneurs is that you need to have experience. And then the second thing I learned, which I learned very much the hard way at TOMS, is that once you grow and you get to a certain size, you need experts. That's the biggest bunch of bullshit ever. I mean, literally, like the number of people that I brought into TOMS later, like once we were like a couple hundred million dollar business, that quote had like big company expertise did not help. If anything, it, it affected the culture in a negative way, caused more complexity. They wanted to bring their own systems in, their own teams. It created like way more overhead than we ever needed. So A, you don't need a lot of experience to start, and if anything, having experience might limit your innovative thinking. And then if you are lucky enough to build something that really starts scaling, when they start telling you like, oh, you need to bring in this expertise, I don't, I don't think it's true. And I think my sister's a great example of that. My sister, you know, runs Aviator Nation and you know, she owns 100% of the company, has never brought in quote the experts, and she and a small group of really passionate people built an incredible brand.

Yeah. What did your parents feed you guys? Like, like why are you both so successful? That's so crazy.

I mean, and my brother too. My brother has, I love people to know, my brother has this amazing online golf company called My Golf Club. And basically it allows people to get by far the lowest prices of any golf equipment on the internet and it's through a membership model. And so he hasn't been as like well known in the media, but he's also crushing it.

What, like what do you attribute that to? Like what is it parenting or genetics?

Yeah, I think our parents were like always just like, if you can believe it, just go do it. Like we didn't have a, we didn't have any fear growing up of failure. And I think maybe 'cause, you know, we grew up, my dad was a doctor, my mom was an author. She did very well. He did well. Like, we had a nice safety net. So a lot of people don't have that, you know. A lot of people, you know, don't have the luxury of just going for it. But also, I just think from a psychological perspective, our parents are always instilling confidence in us and always, you know, encouraging us to like really go for what we believe in.

Can you remember a moment where like it was— it really made you who you are as a kid because of what your parents did? Like, were there moments where you—

you know, my mom basically put my dad through medical school. School. And then, you know, years later, I think I was 15 at the time, my sister was like 11, my brother was like 7, she decided she wanted to write a cookbook. And she was like, you know what, I have this idea for this cookbook. I think it'll help a lot of people lose weight. It's about cutting the fat out. It's good for your heart, this whole thing. She had, you know, didn't go to college, had no experience writing books. Like, my dad bought her a word processor at Walmart And she wrote this book and it became the number one bestselling cookbook in America for 3 years.

Wow.

And she made millions of dollars.

So it's like, just do things.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just do things. Like, think, just like if you have an idea, just try it. And what, you know, and so I think that really, um, created that entrepreneurial spirit in my brother and my sister and I. Yeah.

You know, and you've told me even just our short time hanging out here, a bunch of stories about how you get people to get excited about a product or business without having a bunch of cash. Yes. Which I love.

Yes.

So like, I wanna talk about, you were talking about two companies you're interested in right now, and one of 'em you're like, you know how we're gonna, we're gonna get everybody into this. And then you told me your strategy. Will you tell 'em the strategy for the chair company?

Yeah. Well, I think one of the best things to do for a company is to try to find a way to be integrated into natural conversations.

Mm-hmm.

And it's also like, like, it's also this thing that like Seth Godin, the great marketing genius who I love, you know, he writes about the purple cow and the purple cow is, it's like if you're driving down the highway, and you're looking at cows and then you see a purple one, you're gonna stop, you're gonna take a picture of it, you're gonna tell everyone. So it's gotta be remarkable. So first off, when you're starting a business, like if the more your product itself can be remarkable, but then it's like, how do we naturally integrate it into where conversations are already happening?

Mm-hmm.

So this chair company is called the Pivot Chair, P-V-O-T. Okay. So Pivot Chair, these guys are, uh, engineers from Nike. They're there for like 30 years and they realize that sitting is the new smoking. Like, like we, we were way too sedentary. And so they developed a chair that has— it's the only chair in the world, and they have all these patents on it— that literally has two access points. So it moves this way and it moves this way. And so when you sit in the Pivot Chair, if you're not prepared, you'll fall over. But if you're prepared and you engage your core a little bit, all the pressure goes out of your lower back, and it's like the most amazing experience ever. You can sit in it all day. It's not like it makes you sore, but it engages you enough that it's the equivalent of thousands of steps and everyone's looking to count steps, right? And so what my idea to them was, is I was like, guys, like, because we were getting ready to do an investment round, the company launches in July. And I said, you know, I think the only people we have invest in this next round are podcast hosts because they sit in a chair a big part of the day and then their guests sit in the chair. And so rather than them have to like do an ad about it, just have the guests sit there. And for the first 5 minutes of every conversation, it's gonna be, what the fuck am I sitting in? And then naturally gonna talk about like why this is so good for us. Yeah. And so I, that's a good example of like taking something that might be hard to explain, and that's when you need lots of money for marketing and advertising and just letting someone experience it in an environment that's naturally gonna get people talking about it.

Yeah.

And so that's,, and like we have no marketing budget for that company. We don't need it because it's just, if people sit in it, they want one.

How do you come up with ideas like this that don't take money but just creativity? Like, do you have a creative process?

I think the creative process is I just love people. I love talking to people. I love meeting strangers. I love asking people what you think. I love playing pranks on people. Like, I mean, it just like, just anything to do with people. And I feel like the more I'm around people, the more ideas get generated. What doesn't work for me is sitting in an office trying to figure it out or having endless Zoom calls because everyone's posturing, whatever. It's actually like, let's just get out there and mess with it. For instance, when I launched the Enough Bracelet, what I did was I just started giving them to people and saying, look, I really struggled not feeling enough for many years, and this has been a daily reminder for me. And I'd just love for you to have one and just see what happens. Or ask people like, who in your life helps you really feel enough? And they start opening up, my mom. Okay, here's one for you and go give one to your mom. You know, so like, and then we had all these ideas about that. And then that leads to, well, what if every person that receives one now has a little code on their, on the packaging where they can scan it and send one to someone else? Oh, that's cool. So what a great marketing idea, right? Like everyone that wears a bracelet. Is also a giver of a bracelet and now it just goes on forever. But that wouldn't have come had I not been like on the street, like passing out bracelets, talking to people.

It's such a good point because I think in this age of AI, everybody's really worried about their job and what's going to happen and will somebody take this away from me?

Yeah.

And one of the things that I think lasts is something you talk about a lot, which is really taste and creativity, right?

Yeah.

And so like, you are obviously a guy with taste. You're like cool dressed. Yeah. You got all this. Stuff. TOMS was like, you know, one of the first cool shoe companies I remember.

Thank you.

And so I guess my question for you there is like, does everybody have taste? Can you develop taste as an entrepreneur? Can you hire people with taste?

I definitely think you can hire people with taste. Like, I feel like when I'm meeting with someone, I kind of know if they've got it or they don't.

How can you tell?

Just their personal style choices, their attention to details, their Instagram. I mean, as silly as that sounds, like even to that, to some degree, I mean, it's gotten a little bit harder because everyone's so hyper-focused and everyone kind of follows what everyone else is doing. But originally, early day Instagram, like back when like I was running Tom's, you know, 10+ years ago, Instagram was a great way to see like when we were hiring people, like, 'cause it's interesting, like, they say like, if you really wanna know someone, you know, look at their camera roll. You know, it's like, what are they actually taking pictures of? And if they're taking pictures of like cool architecture or like a really cool restaurant or whatever, even if they're not posting it, it's like, that's how you can kind of see what is someone thinking about, you know? And I think a lot of taste is also about curiosity.

Mm-hmm.

Like taste, I don't necessarily think, actually I would change this. I care more about someone having a sense of style than taste. And I don't care if it's my style or not. Yeah, like they could be hardcore cowboy, great, but if they lean into it and like that's them, I respect that, you know. Or they're really into, you know, vintage cameras and like that's their thing, and they've got this camera and they tell you exactly about it and why they had this leather strap and what this viewfinder does. Like, that's a sense of style Whereas taste can be a little bit kind of like following whatever's cool in the moment. But I'm more interested in style because that tells me independent thinking. That tells me curiosity. That tells me confidence. They don't care if everyone else has their style, you know? So, yeah, I think that's something that's a little bit more interesting to look at when you're looking to hire someone. Because if someone has a specific sense of style, I think that that can be applied to other styles. So like, if they're very specific in their personal style, then they can figure out like what is the right style of how we want to, you know, merchandise or, or stack these bracelets.

Yeah, it's a good point. Yeah, it's funny, I was actually talking to David, my podcast producer, because I was like, I gotta get like, I gotta get a little bit more swag. Like, I was like too serious, you know, because I'm ex-finance. And he's— and he is known for— hopefully I can say this publicly— sometimes you'll paint your nails. Now the internet knows.

Yeah.

And he's like, yeah.

And I painted my nails before.

See, I was like, David, I don't know about that. I was like, I don't know if that's what we— and he was like, listen, bud, you gotta get— you gotta cool— you gotta get on my level.

I, I paint my— the reason I did it is for years I was trying to stop biting my fingernails.

Okay, that's reasonable.

And so I thought if I paint them pink and green and all these random colors, then it like brings like a conscious attention to them. And if I have attention to them, I'm not going to want to hurt them.

Yeah, did it work?

Didn't really work as well, but, but it did make my kids think I was like super embarrassing, which ultimately that's why I stopped doing it 'cause my daughter thought it was cool when she was like 4 and 5 and we went to get manicures. Now that she's 8, it's like if I painted nails, I'm not invited to any school assemblies.

We're talking about all these incredible things you do with business and these big businesses you've started, but there are a bunch of businesses nobody, I don't think, knows that you started. And so I wanna talk about 'em in a couple different ways. One, I wanna talk about Easy Laundry, which you put on.

Right. First business.

Yeah. Tell me about the business. How much money did you start? It with and what happened?

$500. I broke my— well, not broke, I tore my Achilles tendon. I was a tennis player in college. I was on crutches. So all of a sudden I couldn't carry my laundry to the laundry facility, which is in the bottom of the dormitory. So my laundry is piling up. I can't carry them down. My roommate's kind of giving me a hard time. We go home for Thanksgiving. His dad was an entrepreneur. I didn't know what the word entrepreneur was at this point, right? My dad's a doctor. My grandfather's a doctor. My uncle's a doctor. My aunt's a nurse. Like, They're my whole family's medical. And his dad, we were talking about the fact that I couldn't do my laundry. And he said, well, you should just have someone, you know, come and pick it up. And I was like, I looked in the Yellow Pages and this is how old I am, right?

So I looked in the Yellow Pages, which by the way, was a directory of listings like the internet back in the day. Remember that?

For anyone who doesn't know what it is, it's basically imagine if Google was printed, but local, local. So as I told him, I was like, I looked in the Yellow Pages. There's no fucking people to pick up my laundry. No one will do it. He's like, that sounds like a business opportunity.

Wow.

I'm like, a what? He's like, 'cause I'm a jock. I'm just a pure tennis player. It's all I do. And he is like, I think you guys should start a laundry business.

Oh.

And I was like, he's like, yeah, people would, sure. People would. I went to a school, SMU in Dallas, a lot of rich kids. Yeah. And so he is like, I think you charge a lot of money for this.

Right.

So literally we go back, we buy a FedEx truck for $500, an old, I mean, like literally doesn't work. We had to get the engine replaced, but like the shell of an old FedEx truck at like a junkyard, $500. We paint on the side EZ Laundry, red and blue, and we decide to start going around to fraternities and sororities and like pitching our services. Now, I've never even done my own laundry. I mean, I grew up very sheltered. My mom was like Miss Homemaker. So like, I'm like now figuring out how to like hire people to do laundry in the middle of the night at these places. And we just figured it out. It's amazing. I was like 17, 18 years old.

How did you sell it?

It sucks doing your laundry. And like, and so, you know, if you pay us this, we'll come pick it up every week. But here's the whole thing, and this is such, and I really hope if someone takes from this podcast, this is like such an, my first most important lessons of marketing. So we had this great service for, you know, I don't know how much it was, let's say $20 a week. We'll do all your laundry for you. Okay. No one signs up. I mean, I don't think we had one customer. We went to fraternities, sororities. First off, the sororities are like, we're not giving you our panties, Jake. Like, this is the last thing you could do. I mean, they all knew me. They're like, Not this way. They're like, yeah, exactly. Not this way. You know? But so the sororities are like, this is just no way. And then the guys are like, what are you doing? Like, why, why aren't you playing golf or goofing around and drinking beer? Like you're doing people's laundry. Like, I mean, just the kids, the kids who needed it didn't, weren't the customers, but who was a customer? Their parents. And the parents who were the most the customer was the incoming freshmen. So we sold no laundry services for a semester. We go home this summer, we're thinking about basically quitting. It's just not working. And then we get a booth at orientation for the next year. In 3 days, we sold $100,000 worth of laundry services because the parents assumed when they got there, you buy the books, you sign up for the laundry, you get the meal plan. Boom. Everyone signed up. They even questioned the price.

It was nuts.

I dropped out of college, never went back because of this moment in my life.

Because of laundry. Yeah.

I literally, it was the craziest fucking thing. Like literally we just were in that, we just had the right pitch to the right customer. So sometimes you have the best idea, you're just selling the wrong person. Yeah. And it wasn't the kids, even though the kids are the ones who are benefiting from, I don't know why they weren't the ones that were thinking they wanted to spend $20 on it when they only have so much money for beer or whatever. But their parents who are thinking my kid has maybe never done their own laundry or if they, have it, don't do a great job. And I just bought the books for, you know, $900. Might as well spend $500 a semester to make sure they don't ruin their clothes. And boom, $100,000 in sales, 3 days. Next day I call my dad, drop outta college, never go back.

That's so smart. Well, it's true because these days I feel like people overcomplicate marketing so much.

Yeah.

They're like the demographic, the avatar, the analysis. Hate marketing. Right.

And people hate when I say that too. I, I just, I just made some real enemies already. I know. I put this on, I put this on Instagram the other day and like 4 people that worked for me in marketing Tom's Roof Down. I'm like, really? Really?

Like, I hate you.

I tried to help you build a $600 billion, million dollar business. You hate marketing? Come on. But it's true because it's like, I just don't like the formal concept of marketing. I think when you're trying to like concoct a way to convince or manipulate someone to buy something, it's just, this is not what I, what I'm about. Like, it's like, no, like we were giving something great. We just, once again, right place, right time. Right? Goes back to the chair. Like the chair, if we get the right people to sit in it in an environment where a lot of people see their amazing kind of remarkable experience, it'll spread like wildfire.

What do you call that? Like, have you named that? Is that like trigger point marketing? Is it like, because I think that's a really useful framework for people to think as opposed to, you know, oh, I spend X percentage of my revenue on PPC with Zuckerberg, you know?

I think it's like showing the utility. I mean, even with the Enough bracelet, what's been really fun is— and I know I keep referencing it, eventually we'll have to talk about it, but, but the thing is, is like, it's really about the utility of like— so it's, it's not even the fashion of it, or it's not even like that will raise a bunch of money for mental health charities. It's like, what does this actually do for someone? And so, yeah, so anyway, so I've just launched this Um, and it came from my own, my own journey. After I sold TOMS, I got super depressed. And actually, even before I sold TOMS, I started to get depressed, but it got much worse when I sold it because I thought, okay, once I sold it, I have all this money, all this freedom. I could live in the mountains. I'm going to be so happy. And then I wasn't. And then I was like, oh shit, now what do I do? Like I built like what I think is the perfect company. I gave 100 million children shoes. Like, you know, I made more money than I ever could imagine.

You're friends with all the celebrities.

Everyone is, you know, every single thing. I mean, covers of every magazine for a while. Yeah. Like, and I felt empty and I felt like I didn't really like know like what the second half of my life would be like. And the depression got worse and worse over 7 years. As we talked about, it got really, really bad a couple of years ago. And in part of my healing journey. My therapist really helped me see that underneath all of it was this fear, this, this belief that I'm not enough. And it started when I was young and I tried to feel enough by winning tennis matches. Then I tried to feel enough by starting businesses, then starting a business that would help people. But no matter what I did, no matter how much success I had, I just never felt that I was enough. And then after I did everything that the world tells you will make you feel enough, and I still didn't feel enough, that's when the depression because it was like I didn't know where else to turn, which ultimately forced me to go inward and learn me and help me really realize and heal this idea that I'm enough, you're enough, we're all enough. But our culture lies to us all the time and tells us we're not enough. And if— and social media is great at showing you and making you feel comparison to everyone else and that you're not enough. And so I decided after I started feeling better about a year ago, that I wanted to help people feel enough. And my best friend told me to make a bracelet because he's like, like, I have all these tattoos, right? So they all have these different sayings. Like, one says, be present. One says, do the work, speak the truth, enjoy the ride, carpe diem. And so he's like, instead of getting an I am enough tattoo, which I can see that's what you're gonna get ready to do, he's like, most people aren't going to get that tattoo. So why don't you create something that everyone can participate in? And you like bracelets. Why don't you make a bracelet? So went to India, got these bracelets, are handmade by women in India. And the idea is it's just a daily reminder just to look down and kind of be like, I'm enough. I've always been enough. And like, fuck everyone that tells me that I'm not enough, you know, because so much of that pressure is coming from all around us. And when you feel enough, you have so much peace because then you can actually just be and you can be present and you can be connected.. And so the utility of this for me is, you know, that it helps remind me, but the utility of this for someone else could be different.

Yeah.

So for instance, we, 100% of the profits from Enough goes to mental health organizations. So a lot of people I know that are wearing the bracelet now are wearing it cuz just, they wanna raise money for mental health the same way, like the Livestrong bracelet raised money for cancer. Right? They're like, no, I, I know someone that struggled. Maybe they lost someone to suicide. You know, I mean, and they're like, I'm gonna wear this in honor of them or to raise money. And, and that's why they wear it, but it's, we're giving the utility. And so, you know, yes, I talk to my story and I, and I share other people's enough stories, but also I show that like there's utility to this. And then the other thing, which at the end I'm gonna give you one, is you have, I'll show you right now, a little teaser is we only sell 'em in pairs.

Yeah.

So when you buy one for yourself or you're given one, You get to wear the first one, but then you get to think, who do you want, who in your life do you wanna give the second one to? And so that's utility. So in terms of this, I would call it utility marketing. Like, I really think that's the thing is like, what utility does the Enough bracelet do for people besides raise money for charity? What utility does the Pivot Chair do for someone who's sitting all day, who might have back pain and who wants to live a more active life? What utility did the laundry business do for those parents? The utility wasn't even the clean clothes. Utility was the peace of mind we gave them.

It's so true.

So think about utility.

Speaking of insane marketing ideas, did I ever tell you one of my favorites? I actually started my entire business with a newsletter, literally sending emails, built my entire business from zero to nine figures in 40 years, which is wild. So if I could recommend you one thing, it would be to start a newsletter. Write about anything in the world that you're curious about. Your business, your customers, your ideas. And my friend Tim Ferriss is on Beehive and he writes an email each Friday, literally only about his 5 favorite things. I actually switched all of my newsletters to Beehive because I wanted to grow. And so they help me see where my audience comes from, who reads, how to send stupid, simple, but like beautiful emails. And then the growth tools are all totally built in, which works for me. So it recommends my newsletter in front of other people's audiences. So I'm finding readers I never even would have reached. Now I'm obsessed with this team. The founder Tyler is literally the most relentless, mission-driven founder, just like Blake actually. He's the most relentless one I've ever worked with. Uh, it's fascinating to watch their team. They ship product and features and solve every issue that I have come up. In fact, these little wizards just spun up a new landing page for me in 2 days because my other one was terrible. So if you want to share your ideas with the world and make money on it, go to beehive.com/codie and use code CODIE30. You'll get 30% off 3 months. That's beehive.com/codie for code CODIE30. Also drop your newsletters on Beehive when you start them in the comments. I want to see what you guys are writing. I'm looking for new ideas and brilliant people, and I'm hoping more people like you get into this game of newsletters because it very simply changed my entire life. Again, that's Beehive with 2 E's. 2 I's, no third E. What? You guys will figure this out. You'll remember Beehive, won't you? You know what we should do? Somebody's listening right now and you have your business, but you don't have your utility marketing.

Yeah.

Why don't you comment for us and I'll pick one and send it to you. Deal. And then we can give them a response. Yeah. Oh, that'd be sick.

I love making videos.

Okay.

I tell my team all the time, it's like, you wanna get ahold of someone? Just let me make a video. Like the other day, it was so funny. Our PR person was trying, when we were launching Enough, You know, he was like, um, he was like talking about how everyone to launch it. And then Gayle King came up and I was like, I was on the CBS show with Gayle King like a decade ago. Let me just make a video.

And he is like, I don't know.

I'm like, trust me. Hey Gayle, it's Blake. 10 years ago you helped me launch TOMS. I'm launching Enough. I would love to come on the show. What do you think? Sure enough, we launched it with Gayle King. Yeah. Like sometimes the simplest thing is just like, just make the video, you know? You know, ask the person to buy it. Like, I mean, just like it's simple things.

Yeah. I mean, we definitely don't ask enough.

That is for sure. Yeah.

And I think like, can I say Can I say something to that? I would love that.

No, because this is something that I feel so grateful for in my life right now. So when I was building TOMS, you talked about celebrities involved. We had a lot of celebrities, a lot of people supporting TOMS, but I felt so much pressure whenever I would go to a meeting or pitch someone like, will you wear our shoes or whatever? Because my personal identity was tied to whether they said yes or no. So every rejection, which you're gonna get a lot of rejections as an entrepreneur, was like personally painful. So it caused me stress, anxiety, all these things. Now, because I really do feel I'm enough, whether you like the bracelet, whether they like the bracelet, whether anyone likes the bracelet, I know that there's someone that this is really gonna reach and is gonna touch them, that now I have no problem asking anyone anything because if they say no, it's no big deal. Because it's not my personal identity is whether they like it or they say yes or whatever. And so that's coming. That's been so fun for me because now as I'm going out to different, you know, Kid Cudi is one of my partners. I cold called him.

No big deal. That's wild.

Cold called him, you know, I mean, literally, I, you know, had a friend that knew his manager and I had read about how his, he had really struggled with mental health and had suicidal ideation, like a lot of the same shit that I went through. And he just seemed like a real, like genuine guy. And so I talked to her. And she's like, I can get it in front of him. She got in front of him a day later. He's like, hey, can I do a Zoom with Blake? All of a sudden I'm Zooming with Kid Cudi. And then a week later he's one of our founding partners of Enough.

Yeah, that's cool.

But if he would've said no, I wouldn't even thought 10 seconds about it. I would've been onto the next.

Well, you know what else is cool? I don't think, I mean, I just learned this. Like you can go to IMDb, sign up for their premium thing and see every single agent's per— every single famous person's agent.

Yeah.

That they hate this. Yeah. Yeah. They're gonna like delete this part. Yeah, whatever. That's your job. That's why you get paid the 10 to 20%. Deal with it. Exactly. Um, but I, I think the, the cool part is, and what I hope people take away, is that even though you've had this huge career and you've built all these big businesses, these are actually little micro things that anybody in the world could do. Oh, because I mean, how many times do you think you've been rejected in your life?

Just with enough. I'm not going to put some celebrities and athletes on a blast or their agents, but like, you can think of any mental health celebrity, any celebrity that has had a mental health challenge that has talked publicly talking about it, or any Olympic athlete that has a huge platform about mental health. I have cold-called every single one of them now, and I only have 6 founding partners. There's hundreds of them. So that means that they're— I'm still waiting to hear back from agents of hundreds of these people who say mental health is the most important thing in their life, and I'm saying you can help us raise tens of millions of dollars by just wearing the damn bracelet. Nothing.

You want to call one of them out publicly? That is, yeah, but I think that's the game.

Yeah. So I think, you know what I'd like to do? I wanna give you a list and in the show notes, cuz I don't wanna call 'em out, but I'm gonna say this is my top dream 30 people to be ambassadors of Enough. So if anyone is watching or knows their manager or knows them, cuz all these people, it's not like I'm asking 'em to do something they're not already doing.

Yeah.

You're already saying, I really care about mental health. I got through this. I wanna help other people. So in the show notes, I'm going to give you my list of my top 30, and hopefully someone can get us to one of them and we'll have a new founding partner. I love that.

That'll be huge. All right, let's go, YouTube. I like this. Okay. I also want to talk about you. You seem to have this like, yeah, I don't care, you know, fuck all these people, fuck whatever they think. But you have had numerous, like what my dad would call dark nights of the soul. Yes. Where you have like looked at the darkness in the face that I think all of us have felt either just as a fucking human, but also as an entrepreneur.

Yeah.

And I think it'd be interesting. I don't know which one you want to share, but like, I'd love to hear about a night where you just head in hands, didn't know what to do next, and then how you got through that for maybe the person that's listening right now with their head in their hands.

Yeah. I mean, I think the scariest thing for me was when I started getting depressed. And then it got worse and I started trying to do all these external things to, you know, built the dream house, moved my family to Costa Rica, you know, got divorced, got remarried, got divorced again. Like I did a lot of things to mess up my life. And there was a time, and in doing that, I, you know, had an, you know, I didn't have as close a connection with my kids. And, and, and I then went to a psychiatrist who told me I was bipolar. And then I got put on all these meds. And I mean, like, My journey got, went from bad to worse, to worse, to worse, to 2 years ago, I started waking up at 3 in the morning and I want to kill myself. And it was so fucking scary because I knew logically I would never do that to my kids. Like I knew, like, but I couldn't stop thinking like, go to your boat that you, you know, that you lived on when you started Tom's. That was your happy place. Do it there. They'll never find you. Someone else— I mean, like, that's the level of detail. And I was dealing with this every single day, and I was keeping it. I was so ashamed because, like, look, I have money, I have a wife at the time, I have kids. Like, like, what— who am I to, like, want to leave this earth? And so I wasn't telling anyone. And the thing I did, which I'm— the reason I'm bringing this up is it's the most important thing anyone can do who is suffering is tell your friends. Just like, there's never judgment, you know. I think mental health has had a lot of stigma. I think it's getting less and less. But just find at least one person today to be like, it's this bad, and don't hold anything back. Like, literally be like, this is what I'm thinking, this is what I'm feeling, this is what I'm planning. Because I believe what happens with people who become suicidal, or at least for me, my experience and others I've talked to, and some that I've lost is that it's like the brain's broken. You know, I mean, literally it's no different than like a huge car accident, but it's invisible to everyone. And so think about it, like, how are you ever going to go to the hospital? How are you ever going to get the surgery? However, you're ever going to get the PT if people don't see you mangled on the street. But if you're in, in that dark of a place, you are— your brain is mangled. The neurons are not firing because it's— because it is not normal for us not to want to live. Enough, you know, and especially me, I had tons of friends. I, you know, I mean, all these reasons, but the most important thing I did and the most important thing anyone can do is just reach out for help. And yes, there's great crisis text lines and there's all this mental health, you know, Project Healthy Minds is one of my amazing partners with Enough. They have all these resources on their website, but I still think the most important thing is tell someone really close to you. I told my friends, I told my mom. Now I hated that I was putting this on my mom, but I was also like, I just need to get through the next 6 months. Like, and, and, and over time they helped me, you know, make some very important decisions in my life, helped me get off all the pharmaceuticals, helped me go to a treatment facility. Like, I, I mean, my journey really was largely supported by the people that I shared. Um, and also it's something about just talking about it. You know, kind of takes the pressure away from it. It takes a little of the energy out of it.

So were you falsely diagnosed bipolar?

I think so. I mean, some people might. Who knows? Who knows? This is one of my favorite tattoos. So if you can see this one, this is my, um, who knows? This is my partner in TOMS. Okay.

Right.

And so for those who are just, uh, listening, I remember not everyone's watching this, then, uh, you should, maybe we'll post a picture of this. But this is Alejo. He started Toms with me. Is he wearing a beret? What's that?

Is he wearing a beret?

All these Argentine gauchos wear this hat. It's like a gaucho hat.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But anyways, he, in a very funny way, I won't tell the whole story because it'll take another half an hour, but he basically spoke for 20 minutes with certainty about all the things in his life that he saw through this vision and this whole thing after some psychedelics. And then he looked at me and goes, but who knows?

Is he Argentinian?

Yeah.

That is a very Argentinian response.

And the thing is, the reason I tattooed it on my forearm is I think it's like one of the, one, like, it's literally like the Buddha talking to me. It was like so smart. Cause it was like, we don't know. I don't know why I got depressed, but I know that it led to my next purpose. You know, I don't know why I was in this relationship. But it led to me having kids, you know, like, like who knows if it's good or bad, you know? And so for me, I don't know, I just, I, I really look at life with just a marvel now and to not be, and now that also goes for people's journeys, like someone difficult in your life or maybe someone's not treating you well or whatever, like who knows why?

Do you think it's hard to be in a relationship with a founder?

I think it's hard to be in a relationship with me. Do you? Maybe not so anymore. I think it was a different period of my life. It was— I mean, I, I think it was very hard to be in a relationship with me when I was building and growing TOMS because it was my first love, you know. I mean, it really was. I mean, there's just, you know, we were traveling around the world, we were giving shoes to kids. I was, I was, um, getting the external validation that someone who never feels enough needed. So I was getting it constantly, you know? And so, you know, it's hard to be in a relationship because in a relationship you mess up, you forget to take the garbage out, you're late for dinner. Like you're not exactly getting external validation every time you come home, but if you're getting it outside as a founder, especially if you have success, it's really hard. But then the interesting thing now is I'm in an incredible relationship with an amazing woman and, and, you know, she's been part of the whole enough You know, building All Enough and it's going great. So I think a lot of it is, is I wouldn't say it's a founder. I'd say maybe first-time founder, you know, I don't know. But I do, I do think that there are sacrifices, but I think the person knows that going in and they're either in for that ride or they're not. And that's why you gotta make sure that you have the same vision for, you know, what you're doing. Cuz right now, helping people feel enough and raising money for mental health is outside of my kids, like, the most important thing going on. And if I was with someone that didn't also share that passion, it probably wouldn't work out very well.

So now when you get into a relationship, do you set it up different?

Like, I think I just got incredibly— I think God threw me a bone on this one. I mean, she's so amazing. Just like, is she here? She looks—

oh yeah, hopefully. No, she's— you're doing this and she's not even listening. We'll have to send it to her later.

Yeah, that's how independent she is. She's just like, I'm doing my thing, you're doing your thing.

No, but, but I'm curious, like I think we have a lot of people who ask questions about relationships. Yeah.

My husband and I, no, I like it. I've, I've watched some of your videos on Instagram about it. Yeah.

Well, I don't, I'm always like, I have no fucking idea. Talk to me when I'm 80.

Yeah. Yeah.

Who knows? Right.

I have no idea.

Who knows?

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For entrepreneurs or somebody going into a relationship or trying to find their person.

Yeah.

Like, what, what would you fess up with somebody that you were in a relationship with now? What questions would you ask, you know, the person? What would you tell them?

Well, I think the first thing is, is just being radically honest about what your priorities are. You know, the hard thing is, especially for someone who didn't feel enough, because that is that you kind of tell people what they want to hear so they'll love you, right? Versus like what, who you really are and what you're really about. And I think so I was kind of doomed and I think my romantic partners are doomed because I never felt that I was enough. So in a sense, I was looking for them to tell me that I'm enough or to fill this hole that only I can fill. Right. And so maybe I'm not leading with how important my business is or my purpose is because I want to say whatever it takes so that they're going to tell me I'm enough. Once I healed this, then I was able to, I think, attract a relationship and be really honest about, hey, My kids are my number one priority right now. I spend half my time with them. Next to that, I am on a mission to literally change the world's mental health. Like, I want to raise more money for mental health through Enough than anyone in the history of the world. Like, I'm not— like, that's how big of a goal I have. And that's going to require me to go on a bunch of podcasts, to travel the world, to do speaking, to do all these things. And so most of our days are going to be living in a suitcase. Suitcase. And when I'm not in a suitcase, I want to surf. And I met a woman from Hawaii that surfs.

Oh, it's perfect.

But, but it was like very clear, like when I'm not doing that, I really want to be surfing. And if you really like the idea of either surfing or being in a beach town and also traveling around the world on this crazy, you know, enough, enough ride, then great.

And that's such a good point.

But it was, but it was so much easier to be clear and honest, honest. Because I wasn't looking for the external validation anymore. I was getting it from myself. I was really believing I am enough, whether this woman is excited about being on this ride with me or not. And then therefore I also attracted someone who they felt they were enough. And so they were able to be honest about what's important to them and what their needs are. And so I think it's hard being with a founder, being with an entrepreneur is, is, is not for everyone. But I also think that it's really hard if you struggle with what I've struggled with and you're a founder to not really kind of sell a vision of a life that's really not what you want.

Yeah.

Well, that's what, sorry. That's also what causes depression. I mean, I'm convinced that one of the largest causes of depression is just not living in integrity with yourself. You know, for so many years I was living the life that I thought everyone else wanted me to live and I wasn't living the life I wanted to live. And I think so that's what catches up to us is we make all these little compromises. Largely I did it so that I would receive love. And then you wake up and you're living a whole compromised life and that you don't want to live. And that's what your soul is like, well, I'm going to get depressed and feel horrible until you make major decisions to get back in alignment. And then you get back in alignment and everything feels at peace again.

That's so true. I also think the universe doesn't give you things when you're unclear. So, you know, if you're like, no, I'll take whatever love I can get, that's not actually what you mean.

Yeah.

Then things go sideways. Yeah. And so it's so important. Even the way you set goals is really interesting to listen to because you're like, I wanted this woman that here are these things that are really important to me. And so they can decide one way or the other. And the way you set goals, you know, my husband and I were talking the other day about how we were looking at like the greatest men of all time. You know, if you look throughout history and not one of the best looking.

Yeah, exactly. You and your husband sitting around.

I think he's hot.

Chris would not like that.

That. He would not be interested in that. He's like you. He's an ex-Navy SEAL surfer.

Okay.

But so he's a dude's dude. But we were like, none of these men have actually achieved their goals fully. Like, you know, if you go to Napoleon, if you look back, you know, throughout history and you look at the biggest leaders in the world, they never achieved their goal. And yours is interesting because your goal was not, well, I want to sell a million bracelets. You know, it's I want to do more for mental health than anybody's ever done. I want to raise more money than ever. Do you think about Goals a specific way? Is there like a right way or a wrong way to set goals for Blake?

I would definitely now, I'm glad you brought this up. So in the same sense, I'll say, I hope that enough, these bracelets, you know, every person on the planet wears one and we raise more money than anyone in the history of mental health. And if I just help one dad tell his teenage daughter that she's enough and read the poem that's in there to her. And that creates a tighter bond. We've had success. Like I literally both goals, this actually the dad daughter one's more important. And, and, and that sounds like a great thing to say on a podcast or in a press thing or whatever, but I actually believe it. And the thing is, is already we've only been doing this for like 2 weeks now. We've gotten the most incredible stories of, you know, teenage girls giving it to each other and it's like their new friendship bracelet. You know, one had been really struggling with depression. She's like, hey, I want you to know I always got you and you are enough. Or I did hear about this dad and daughter. I heard about this son that gave it to his dad and said, I recognize that my dad's been depressed probably for like most of my adult life. He's a guy in his 30s. He's like, but I never knew how to ask him about it or talk to him. And I gave him the bracelet and it opened up a whole conversation and now my dad's going to therapy. Like, I mean, it's like, so, so when I say goals, I can have, you can, I believe you can set goals that are, you know, not mutually exclusive. Like I hope that this becomes huge, but if it doesn't, even if we touch a few people and create some interesting conversations and important healing, we've had success. I think there's been talk about like you set a goal and then you hold onto it very lightly. That's like, so you don't have the pressure of the goal. Like goals are great because I do believe what you put out into the universe is often what you get back. So if you don't, Like you said, if you don't tell the universe what you want, how the hell are you going to get it? How's it going to give it to you? And if you put pressure of like, oh, I'm only going to feel this project was successful if we raise $100 million. Well, that's just a silly thing. But a lot of people do that. And a lot of founders do that. I mean, they set goals financially, like, oh, I need to sell my company for $40 million or $50 million, or I need to do this, or I need to do that. But really the ones that build the great businesses, are 100% focused on something that is not necessarily measurable and more cultural.

Big goals loosely held. I love that.

Big goals loosely held.

So good. Also, I think, you know, I think about that a lot with everything we do, and it's one of my favorite things about the businesses you've built before. But, you know, we started at the beginning of the podcast with me saying, you know, I try to always think about like one person specifically who listens to this. Because if you think about it, you hold something precious in your hands when you're taking somebody's attention. That's their life. Right? That's lifespan. That's very precious. We don't get very many of those. And so if you imagine that we get millions of views a month across all the social channels, what a travesty if you and I don't give them something really worth spending their life on. Like, that would hurt me a little bit. And so I remember, like, we haven't had very many, but we had two podcasts we had to kill because I was like, ah, I got stuff out of it. Thank you so much for coming. But like, a million hours on this, it's not enough. It's not good enough. And so I think one other thing I want to talk about, which is like why we put up the tree, we were struggling beforehand with this. You know, if you guys are watching us, you're like, why is there this giant tree that looks so beautiful behind us? We're struggling with what it was supposed to be.

Yeah.

And then you told a story about wisdom and the Buddha that this reminded you of.

Yeah.

Will you tell us that story?

Yeah. So when I started Tom's, we we grew beyond shoes into eyewear. We started selling sunglasses, and then we made a deal where we said, okay, if you buy a pair of our sunglasses, we'll pay for a cataract surgery to someone who's blind. We found out that the greatest cataract surgeons in the world are at this hospital in India, in Lundini, and we decided to go there and watch people get their eyesight back. I mean, it was literally one of the greatest experiences of my life. I mean, I saw grandparents that had never seen their grandkids kids and see them for the first time because of a surgery that someone got because someone bought a pair of sunglasses on, on, you know, toms.com or something.

I mean, it's crazy. How much does that surgery cost though?

It costs like $16 back then. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah.

Yeah. So with one pair of shoes, you're able to cure eyesight.

Well, no, with eyewear, we just saw eyewear for $100, $115.

That makes sense.

$16 of it was, went to paying the surgery. So anyway, so we go to Lundini. And they didn't tell me this until we got there, but also Lendini is the birthplace of the Buddha. And I looked over and they're like, that's the tree. Now, whether that was a tree or not, who knows, but it was a tree that looks just like this. And I have a photo, I have to find it, probably we can get it for the show, of me sitting underneath the tree. And I remember sitting there and this was, this was before I got depressed. This was like when Tom's was really taking off. I was in my flow. I was very connected to it for all the right reasons. I wasn't putting all the external pressure. And I just remember thinking like, if this is it, if there's nothing else that happens with this, this, this idea, like, and I'd just seen some eye surgeries. I was like, that's all that matters. And I think that's like the way I want to live my life each day, each week, each month, going back to goals. Like at the end of the day, I kind of be like, okay, if that's the last one, I'm okay with it. I'm okay with it, you know, and after the week or after the month, if that's it, I'm okay with it because that's again about living in alignment, you know, and for me having gone through such a scary time where for days I thought it was going to end very soon. I just feel like I have like this, you know, they say new lease on life. Like I feel like this, I get this like second chance. And so that's why I'm spending all my time trying to help others not feel the way I felt. And really connect people because at the end of the day, I mean, that's all we have are relationships and our own mental health. Because if we don't have mental health, it doesn't matter what physical health you have.

Yeah. So what do you do now? Like if you're feeling down, not even going all the way back, but if you're feeling down or you want to feel reinspired, what do you turn to? What activities, what books, what readings, what quotes?

So, okay, this is silly, but one of the things I'm doing right now, it's not silly. It's just, it's just, I don't know. I don't know how people respond. This. Okay. Yeah, I know you're gonna like this. So about 2 months ago, I started using AI therapy. Now a lot of people ask ChatGPT mental health stuff, but there's this app called Sonja, uh-huh, sonja.ai. And I met the founder at a mental health conference and he was giving a presentation and explaining how it works and how it's, you know, built on the LLMs, but they've basically taken, you know, every therapist, every case study, every book ever written. Put it in there and tried to design, and they call it emotional support. I think for legal reasons, they call it emotional support instead of AI therapy, but it's AI therapy. And so, and so anyways, I was like, well, I've done a lot of therapy. I mean, I mean, if anyone's done therapy, I mean, I've done a lot of therapy. And one of the things that's really a bummer with therapy is if I have a panic attack, it doesn't happen at 2 o'clock on a Thursday, or 2 o'clock on a Thursday. It happens at 4 fucking in the morning. And my therapist, I don't care how much money you have, no therapist is answering your call at 4 o'clock in the morning. And so I was like, wow, I could, because I've still struggled with anxiety. I still have these issues that come up and especially with like launches of new things and, you know, just am I always thinking am I being enough, good enough dad and all these things. I wake up and I have stress about, oh my gosh, I didn't do this or that. And so now it's like, Boom, it's right there at 4 in the morning. And I don't have to do a whole hour session. I could do it for 5 minutes, 10 minutes.

And it works?

It works unbelievable. And literally use it.

If you go, I'm panicking. Yeah.

So literally, so, you know, you go in and you get to choose, like, I like to be talked to, like, like I like a therapist that is like really direct, or I have one that's more like light, or the one this, and like you get, you kind of fine tune. It takes like 10 minutes. And then, of course it has memory, so it never forgets anything. And you tell them what's going on. And like, I started off saying like, this is my core wound. I never felt that I was enough. And so this is what I've done. This is what helped me. I had this mantra-based meditation. I do these things. And so I taught it that, and then I teach it, you know, like, okay, you know, one of my biggest sources of stress is this in my personal life or this. And so it starts figuring all this out. And so then when I say I'm having a panic attack this morning, it knows what to check in about. You know, well, how did you sleep? For instance, one of the things that I have is like, I have a really high, like a focus on sleep. And if I don't get good night's sleep, I can feel off. And it feels almost like, like if I ever have jet lag, it almost feels like depression. Like they kind of feel the same to me. And so it'll check in on my sleep and then it'll be like, okay, well, like one of the things that we've recognized, we like me and Therese, it's so funny how it talks to you, is like that, you know, you really. Um, have trouble when things get too performative. So when you're having to out there sell or do too much press or too much of that, like, that's the old Blake. And it'll call it like that's the— I mean, we've talked enough. It was like, that's the Blake before all the, all the growth. The new Blake likes connection. So are you having enough connection? And this week, what are you doing this week to have more connection? That's great.

So it doesn't just do what like ChatGPT does.

Oh no, no.

It's like Oh, you're great. You're perfect.

Yeah. No, no, no, no. It's like so specific. And then it'll be, and then if I say, you know, what I'm doing on Thursday this week to have more connection, I'm gonna commit to, you know, going on a run with my friend Pat. It'll send me a text message Thursday morning and say, hey, are you doing the run with Pat today?

Are we investing in this company? What's happening?

I want to, I want to, I mean, literally, right now I literally just working with the founders. I'm, I'm, one of the things I'm also trying to do a lot now is mentor young entrepreneurs, especially if they're building businesses that can help people with their mental health. And so when I met these guys, I was like, hey, like, I don't know. I get, I, first off, I just wanted to try it myself and then it was working so well. And then they know the Tom story. And then my, I presented at the mental health conference and they're like, hey, like, can you help us some? And so I've been mentoring them. So I might invest, we'll see. But I mean, who knows where this is going? I don't even know if it's going to be legal, but right now it's free. At sonia.ai. So you can do it right now. It's legal and it's free. I don't know if it will be forever, but, um, yeah, what about— but that's really helping me. And, and I guess the point I bring that up is, is I think what helps me the most is to have, um, a dependable tool. And every tool that works for someone else. So some of my friends, one of my friends who's recovering alcoholic, still deals with a lot of anxiety, starts to get, you know, out of sorts. Cold plunge, you know, a cold shower. That's his tool.

Just boom.

He doesn't, he won't even like allow himself to call someone or talk to a therapist until he does that first. You know, right now this Sonya thing is my tool and I, you know, everyone has a tool, but I think that's the thing I would say is if someone's struggling, find a tool that can interrupt the rumination, the negative thinking, the, you know, all that stuff. And so that's, that's really a big tool for me. And then my other tool is my bracelet. You know, I just have it.

I wear it.

I talk about it. I, you know, give it out to people all the time. Like, tools are important.

It's a good point. It's a pattern interrupt.

Yeah. That's what we need. Cause I think when we get outta sorts, you know, when we start feeling negative thoughts, when we start ruminating, when we, you know, you know, it's all just a pattern. It's just our brain. Like, you know, it's just like the brain is sending, I mean, for years, for 40-something years, my brain told me I wasn't enough. And so what I did for 40 days is I did a mantra-based meditation. 20 minutes in the morning, 20 minutes in the evening, where I simply just said, "I'm enough. I've always been enough." And I'd like laugh because it was so silly, and it felt stupid for the first couple weeks, and then it started working. I started feeling it. But all I did was just change that pattern.

I love that. Yeah, I just, I just had Tony Robbins on the podcast.

Oh great, I love that. Him, I, I, you know, we've met briefly once. We've never spent any time together. I want to have him on my podcast. Oh, because he talks a lot about feeling enough.

Oh yeah, and And he has one of, I think, the most intense presences of anybody that I've met. And so, I was at his house, and we spent a good amount of time with him. And I remember when he walked in the room, I was like, "Whoa." He's big guy, right? But we've had a lot of big— There's a lot of big guys. But what really took me away is that man is locked in. I was like, "Oh, fuck. He knows what's going on in here. He's so locked in." And then, kind of similar to you, he was like, like, it was a lot of curiosity, which you seem to have the same thing. Like, why are you this way? Why am I this way? And then once I figure it out, how do I put a tool in place to figure out the solution?

Yeah.

Which I think is really interesting. But he would be great for your podcast. Yeah. One of the other things I wanted to ask you about, like, now it's so interesting to me that you could have ever been in this dark place because the way you come off is like so, so much joy de vivre, so much like, you know, big, huge energy for life. And so I was wondering, like, today, what has you— what has you so excited? Obviously this, but like, when you wake up in the morning, is it that you're gonna go surf that day? Is it that you get to build again?

I, I think what has me most excited about life right now is, is service. It's like, it's just like I'm getting to help people again. I know right now this podcast, there's a 1,000% chance that there's someone listening who's really in a tough place. There's also probably people that are feeling stuck, feeling uninspired, feeling insecure. Like I, I felt those things. I mean, for years, I didn't have one business idea for 7 years. For 2 years, I was a shell of myself. My friends say literally they look in my eyes and there was no one there. I mean, I didn't, I couldn't even raise my voice to this octave. For 2 years. And so because I felt that way and it was so scary and it was so recent that I think I wake up now and I'm kind of like, how do you engineer your life?

Like, it almost seems like you've adventured your entire career. It's one of the things I struggle with. Adventure? Yeah.

Like, oh yeah, I do. I, I always make time for adventure.

But how, like, so in my business, we were just talking about this and I'm like, man, when I'm in my little entrepreneurship grind, it's kind of all I do. Like I'm so deep in it. I talk to a lot of people, it's the same. They're just like, they grind every single day. And you seem like a type of person who has always integrated sort of the rest of life into it.

Yeah.

How do you do that?

Two things. One is I really schedule joy. So I believe that like a lot of people hope for joy or awe or these big moments that come to them. Like, I put it on the calendar the same way you have a board meeting. Like, I'm like, for one week a month, I'm going surfing. Now, I'll still— you can't surf all day long, so I'll surf from 5 in the morning till 10, get my joy. I'll do Zoom calls from 10 to 4, and me and my lady will go for a walk on the beach, we'll have a nice dinner, we'll do, you know, a sunset, and that's my day. And that is like as important as the press week in New York last week. And so I really, really schedule that, and that's, you know, That's nice that I can go somewhere, say, where there's surf or whatever. Not every person can do that. But what is that for you? Like, what is that joy? Is it taking guitar lessons? Is it learning something new on YouTube? Like, what is that thing? Because if you don't schedule that, then like, what's the purpose? You know, what's the point?

Because do you do that every day too?

No, I wish. I wish. I mean, if I'm really, really like operating a 10 out of 10. Then I'm like making sure I protect a couple hours, you know, early in the morning to, you know, usually it's physical activity or it's playing golf, like 9 holes at sunset, you know, with my son or with my friends or whatever.

Yeah. So, but it's at least once a month.

So, but once a month, I try to schedule a month. Now it's, don't know, I always get a week. No, but I definitely get at least a 4-day, 4 days. There's, there's not a month that goes by that I don't have 4 days where I'm just like, see ya.

And do you always do something weird, like, like going to India or like surf? It's not just like— it seems like they're—

that's more my personality than I think what I would share. Like, going back to how do we help the person who's listening to this and focusing on them, like, yes, I do a lot of just crazy adventures because that's just always how I've been. Like, you know, I've always been, you know, racing cars or climbing mountains, or I mean, just, I like the adrenaline of those things. But also I think you can schedule this, you know, if someone's just like, I love reading and I'm going to schedule 4 days where I go, it could be like the, you know, you go camping, it can cost nothing. And I'm just going to sit and read the books that I've been wanting to read for 2 years, you know, or I'm going to go and just like one thing I did that was, I guess it was a little bit out there, but very simple was I hiked the Camino Trail for a week with Alejo. This summer. So we just walked for a week. I mean, we didn't run.

Big walker.

Yeah, we just walked. We got up, walked, ate, walked. Like, it was the most boring thing I've ever done and one of the most profound because my whole nervous system reset and I was able to process the depression and all the things I went through and the pain I caused others and the pain others caused me. And I was able to forgive them and forgive myself. And I was like, man, I'm like, this is better than any therapy retreat I've ever been to. And all I did for a week was walk.

I love that.

Yeah. And so, so I think it could be— I could have— I did that in Spain, but I could have done that, you know, in Marin where I live, you know.

Yeah.

So, so I think that actually I did.

Yeah, I just looked up— this is so funny— but my hobby this year is literally more walking because I like thinking a lot while walking. But you know that there are 52 trails in the US? Where you can do more than a 7-day walk that are supposed to be seen as highly scenic.

Yeah.

And you can camp along them. So like if you ChatGPT it right now, anybody listening, totally free, maybe $7, $12 to camp. Yeah. And then you can go for a walk. Maybe we can start walking all around the country and having beautiful ideas while you do it and not being sedentary like your chair.

Exactly.

So that we can get all our steps in.

Sitting is the new smoking.

Who knew? Blake walking episode.

Here's the slogan I'm pitching. We're talking to a chair company. I'll see what you think. As a business person, really simple, never still.

Oh God, that's true. Plus I'm into that. I don't like being still.

Yeah. So now when you're sitting, the other thing about the chair thing, not to make this all about that, but they're going to love this. So they thought it was to help, you know, with get people, you know, not being still, you know, help with the back pain, help with the, you know, but what they found, like the biggest hack is people have ADHD. Because what happens, do you? So, okay. So you know how, like when you're, if you really focus on something, you kind of need to be doing something else.

Oh, totally.

You like to fidget. You like this.

Yeah.

You doodle, you ring.

Mm-hmm.

So they've shown that you can really focus. Well, we've done all this research to show that by sitting in this chair, your body's just doing this kind of, you can barely see it and it allows you to hyperfocus on whatever you're doing. Sold. So I sold. Yeah. You're getting one for sure.

I'm totally sold.

And hopefully all your guests will be sitting in one.

Okay. So I wanna leave. The person listening here that like just needs to listen to Blake today, like your parting words. So like there's that person out there, you know, you have something to imbue to them. What comes to you first? What do you want to leave the listener?

I just think that what I want to say is that it will pass, you know, no matter what you're going through, no matter how hard it is. Like just, it will get better. It always does. If you just hang on and you take the steps to do the things. So go out for the walk, you know, you know, reach out to a friend, you know, journal for 30 seconds, not even 5 minutes, just 30 seconds of something that you're appreciative of. But no matter how hard it is, it will pass. I didn't think it was going to pass. I thought I was trapped. I thought I'd made too many mistakes. I had too much shame and that's why I had such dark thoughts. But looking back now, I'm like, it was always gonna pass. I just had to hold on. I just had to start doing one thing at a time. I just had McConaughey on my podcast.

Oh man.

And he talks about one in a row. Just get one in a row today. And so that would be my advice is like knowing like or not even advice, just like, just, I want you to hear that it will pass and it will get better, but you got to do the work. You got to put it in.

Blake, who would have thought? Least interesting thing about you is that you sold your company for $600 million. Least interesting. Thank you so much for being here today. I'm so— Oh, oh, I got to give you a bracelet before we're done.

Oh, we're going to do it right now? I would absolutely. So here we go. So we take one out. This one's for you. And it says, so you got to make sure I do this right. Yep. So open your palm.

Okay.

Okay. And for those who are listening, I'm putting an enough bracelet.

Matches my outfit today. Didn't even work it on purpose.

And I'm gonna read you something.

Okay.

So this is a little poem. Do you know the poet NQ? So he's an amazing poet, friend of mine. And I said, how do I share this with someone besides just giving it to him? Like, what, like, if I really want them to feel this, this, then what can we say? So here it is. So, Codie Sanchez Sanchez, I see you, the you behind the you, not for anything you've done or anything you're gonna do. I don't stop to say it enough, but I believe in you. And if you could see yourself from my view, you'd believe it too. That's why I'm giving you the gift that I'm receiving too. A message to remind you when you're lost or feeling blue, a mantra to repeat when times are tough, because no matter who we are, we are always enough. It's a silent prayer I'm sending for the world's mental health. I wear the symbols for myself and now as a bond to someone else. It's a blessing and a gentle push to never give up, because no matter who you are, You are enough.

So good. Beautiful. Also why you're a marketing legend. Blake, thank you so much for being here today.

Thank you for having me.

Um, where can people go to find you?

Um, weareenough.co is the website for Enough, and then I'm on Instagram at @blakemykoski and the Pivot Chair, P-V-O-T.

Yeah, we'll put all the, uh, links down below.

And the 30 people that I would love to be our ambassadors I'm looking to your community to help me get to them.

I like it.

I love this idea.

And we'll ping somebody with your brilliant marketing ideas too and help them find this. What did we call it? We called it utility marketing.

Utility marketing.

We got a little trademark for Blake today.

I think I want to do 10 people.

Whoa.

10 people.

I love it.

10 people.

Okay.

Tell us what you need help with utility marketing. What are they going to comment?

So they're going to comment on YouTube. Basically just tell us what your product is.

And then I'll just make them a video of my idea.

Oh, I love this idea. All right. You're the man, Blake.

Thank you.

This is so great.