From Broke To Billionaire: Poppi CEO on SharkTank & Her $1.95B Sale | Allison Ellsworth

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Let's go. Places going on Shark Tank absolutely changed my life. Hi sharks. I'm Alison Ellsworth. I'm the first person to have gotten a deal to be a shark ever.

That is wild. How do you build a billion dollar brand? What is the formula?

I always say there's like three things. One is Alison Ellsworth built a modern soda empire from scratch.

From local farmers markets to a Shark Tank deal. Perhaps the most successful soft drink startups.

That America has ever seen. Poppy has over 3 billion views on Tikt. 1/3 of the platform has seen my face 7 times. Poppy was the fastest grown beverage in the history of beverage. Basically. I didn't know that as a brand. If you are not on TikTok talking, posting multiple times a day, guess what that costs you is your time.

Have you ever had a really big disagreement or something go really sideways?

There was literally screaming fighting. But I think that it brings good resolution to have those moments. I like love the good and the bad. I know. Our mission at Poppy is to revolutionize soda for the next generation. I want it to be the soda my kids and grandkids. No, as soda. And the only way to do that is to get it into more hands.

What does it take to sell a company to pepsi for like $1.95 billion?

Yeah. So especially in beverage, there's literally three people that can buy you or you can go public and.

Hi and welcome back to the Big Deal podcast. I'm Cody Sanchez. In this episode, Allison Ellsworth breaks down the exact playbook she used to turn skeptics into superfans and land one of the biggest beverage deals in years with her company, Poppy. And she didn't do it by luck. She did it with a lot of hustle and one secret, which was a guy on Shark Tank who helped her take all the homework he'd had over decades and apply it to her business. She credits him and a few others with the reason why Poppy is now worth $1.95 billion. We're actually trying to do the same thing here at the Big Deal podcast. Steal some of the best and Brightest homework so that you guys can have mentors just like she did. If you've ever learned something on this podcast or you want us to be your mentors, subscribe on YouTub or Spotify. You are a big deal to us, and we want to make you a big deal. Let's start with Shark Tank. No real background in this. Definitely not a $2 billion company at that time. What was that like as a young woman?

Yes. I watched every episode before I went on, and I wanted a deal. Right. I think some people go on and they kind of just want to be on tv. Yeah.

Or get the marketing or something.

Get the marketing. And then on top of, I was nine months pregnant. Literally had the baby two weeks. Yeah. But I always was like, oh, this will make great TV if I go in labor on national tv.

Spoken like a real entrepreneur. She's like, to be perfect might go.

Viral, but it was interesting. So got a deal. Absolutely. Changed our life. I think it's amazing. And then, you know, being the first person to have gotten a deal to then be a shark and sitting on both sides and seeing both sides of the curtain, I guess, was really cool.

So who did your deal and how much money did they give you?

Yeah, so we did our deal back in 20. Basically. 19. 19, 2018. It was with Rohan Oza. It was 400, 000 for 20% deal.

Of a lifetime for this guy.

It is dilutive at least. Yeah, of course. I mean, we had 100 of the company at that time. So, you know, but that was okay. Like, you go on Shark Tank to make a deal, they're sharks. It is what it is. It's like, you know what you're getting into.

Yeah. And at that time, kind of a crazy idea. You're like, the thing is soda. Like, what? Like, it's not an easy business.

No, it was worse back then. It was apple cider vinegar, which is like, who wants to invest in that? But we were called Mother Beverage before we were poppy, and we did the whole rebrand. So not only was I like, hey, by the way, we have no branding. We just have a liquid that tastes good and a good story. And he just kind of, like, saw the vision and I think a lot of stuff. I'm investing a lot now that I see. And the number one thing I invest in is the founder. And I really think that he just saw that and. And we just hit it off right away.

Everybody says that, that it's about the founder, but then you try to explain it, like, how can you tell if a founder is going to make it or not.

So most founders don't like being told what to do. Right. They're doing things different. They're paving their own path. And so when you go to a founder where I've been in their shoes and I'm not here to, like, take your money, I genuinely have a little bit of more sympathy for that. And I can relate to a founder that has vision but is willing to take help, because there's nothing worse than trying to work with someone that thinks they know everything. Like, even in business, you don't want to hire an employee like that. That kind of a person's annoying. A lot of founders have big egos. I had a big ego when I first started and had to learn how to work with people and in the same sandbox. And so for me, when I'm talking to someone, I'll do a little bit of a test. Sometimes I'll be like, hey, for your packaging. It's so cute. I love it. But would you be willing to change it? And I try to see the reaction, even if I don't want to change it. And some people will be like, wait, I spent so much money, I worked so hard, and they start, like, backtracking on why they don't want to change it versus I could be open to that discussion, you know, and they're like, open. But you also don't want a founder that just says willy nilly and will change. So you almost like, it's like a gut feeling too, a little bit.

Yeah. Well, I think also, you know, for that I want the founder. That's like, why are we changing it? You know? And you're like, well, I think you could sell more if you did X and Y and Z. And the founder's like, okay, you think given your $2 billion plus access to Pepsi, if we changed the branding, we could get here and here instead of there? I'm like, yeah, you know, it's like, do you want to be right or do you want to win?

Exactly.

You know, let's find the winners.

100%.

I love that. Okay, you know what's wild about you? You actually started in oil and gas research before you started this company, right? So what does that even mean for somebody? Listening?

I didn't know what I wanted to do. I just knew I wanted to make money. And you can make really good money in oil and gas. So I went on the road for seven in teeny little towns. I worked in the courthouse where I would do the research on ancestry and Trying to figure out who owns the mineral rights. And on top of it, then you track them down and you negotiate with them in the city and the local government and the Bureau of Land Management. Like, it's really complicated. But what it really taught me was going out, getting to know people, their family, and how you can use that in business and not. It's not so transactional, which I think is really amazing, is like relationship building. And then dealing with government is not easy. Right. To get things done. And so I think it was really well rounded business. Almost like better than college, right?

Oh, yeah. I think the best business school is being in business. Shocking. Literally, but. And you probably got a lot of rejection, I imagine. You know, I mean, I've heard stories about people trying to go buy land rights or mineral rights on somebody's land, and they get, like, chased off with a shotgun.

Yep.

Like, I bet. Did you ever have instances where you. You were chased off land at the shelter?

There's a lot of ranchers out there that do not want you on there. They're used to people coming and sniffing around. I mean, there's times where I couldn't get a hold of people and I would send them a pizza with, like, on the top of the pizza. I'd go to, like, literally Domino's and write like, a note and be like, I promise you. I'm like, just take a phone call with me. And then there's a lot of, like, backstabbing as well, where, like, the aunt finds out and tries to cut out the uncle and the sister. And, like, you're playing a little bit of therapy, I guess, with the families. But I mean, like, once again, it's learned those learned experiences. It was really fun. But I'll be honest, it's not fun being on the road. And so I finally got to the point where I was like, I wanted to start a family. I. I loved it. I loved the money, but it just wasn't worth it anymore. And I was just discovered this new path.

Yeah. Yeah. You're like an episode of Landman.

Literally. Yeah.

Did it help that you were cute and female?

You know, I was the only female at the majority of everything, and I do think it gave a little bit of a softer side to it. And I was from Texas, and my dad grew up Montana, and, like, it was. I wasn't necessari necessarily, quote unquote, a city girl, but I was, let's be real.

But you threw a y' all in there where appropriate. Yes. Love that. So you go from naturally oil and gas straight to production of, I don't know, apple cider vinegar, soda water, which is not so normal.

No.

What happened? Why did you do that? And did people tell you you were crazy?

Yeah. So I started it because I had a lot of health issues. My stomach was hurt, my skin was breaking out. I was allergic to so many different like makeups and Fragran and I just started googling ways to just like heal my body through food. I never really had been into reading nutritional labels. I didn't even really know what half of the things that were bad or good for you were. You know, you go to college and then you kind of get out and you're just like, you just don't care about your wellness. I think that look, there's a huge movement now. This was 10 years ago.

Yeah, we were Taco Bell, Cheeto Cheeto girls. So I get it.

Love Taco Bell, you know, me too. And I started just eating healthier. I went gluten free, I started working out, I started really trying multivitamins. Just like natural things that you're like, oh yeah, no, I guess I can't say no shit.

You can say it all.

But it's one of those things. I was like, okay. And apple cider vinegar just kept sticking out. I would drink it every day and it just made me feel better. But it wasn't sustainable. Have you ever taken a shot before?

It's awful.

It's awful, awful. And you're like, I know this is probably something that's good but I don't really want to do it. It's not sustainable. And so that's when I went to the kitchen and I to cook. It's a huge hobby of mine. I would spend as much time in the kitchen if I could and I just made something that made it taste better. And then all of a sudden people are like, hey, this isn't that bad. The majority of people that told me I was crazy was my family, you know, and it's so funny cuz I always say you want to surround yourself around people that like lift you up. But let's be real being like, hey guys, I'm going to quit our job. I'm not going back on the road. I'm going to start selling this like vinegar tonic basically. I definitely get why they thought I was crazy. But I did have my brother in law, like I brought it home to thanksg One year my brother in law got really excited and he was like tasting them and my dad was like, hey, why don't you Sell your hooch like this. You know, it's like they were, like, cutesy about it. Like, we love what you're doing. And then really where it took off was when we did actually start selling it, and we took it to the local farmer's market, and it just kept selling out week after week. And then my husband finally was like, oh, wait, we have a business. This isn't such a hobby anymore. And then, of course, we've worked on the formula and ever since to make it improved and better. But still, some of our original flavors are like raspberry rose and ginger lime that we still have today.

I like the raspberry rose. I tried that one. I haven't tried this one before, but I'm going to try it today. I was wondering. In the early days, you know, it's so hard starting a company. It can be so lonely and challenging, and you run out of money. And then even if you're growing like crazy, then you got to fund the growth, you know? Did you ever do any wild, unhinged things to grow poppy?

So in the early days, we launched poppy March of 2020, literally the first week of COVID And so all of the traditional marketing plays went out the window. You couldn't do in real life events. You couldn't really do a lot in grocery store. Everyone was more concerned with getting toilet paper. Right. And so most especially in food and Bev, you don't really go omnichannel from day one, where you kind of pick maybe D2C or Amazon, and then you focus on retail, and it ramps up. Well, for us, we were kind of forced to really go digital first sooner. So we went Amazon 100, which is not normal, right? It's not normal because it's very capital intensive.

Yeah, it's super. And that's omnichannel, meaning multiple channels that you could sell through. So, like Whole Foods and Amazon and, you know, farmers markets, even, whatever. And then it's so expensive because of the shipping costs.

We're shipping literally water, if you think about it, like, liquid and. And beverages and then on top to support both channels, marketing wise.

Yeah.

And people. Why? Like, it's just. It's a whole other beast. So when we were going on TikTok in the first early days, no brands were on there. Everyone's like, those are just young kids dancing. And I was like, no, there's a. There was, like, so many people on this platform, and no one was talking to them. But you couldn't kind of approach it the same way as instagram where it's like high gloss. I mean, there wasn't even reels back then, like, which sounds so crazy if you really remember.

Yeah.

And really there was YouTube, but long form is very hard, that type of content. And so I personally started just spending my nights and weekends and going on TikTok and just being as unhinged as possible. I was dancing, I was doing transitions, I was doing recipes.

Oh, my God, we got to find these.

Like, oh, gee. I mean, looking back at, like, the music you just like in your head, you know those songs, right? Like Savage and like all of that stuff from the OG days. And it just absolutely went viral and blew up. And. And some people, what I. What I like to get across is it was really unhinged and weird for that time, but a lot of founders don't even think to do it nowadays, which is wild. As a brand. If you are not on TikTok talking, posting multiple times a day, guess what that costs you is your time and the ability to go viral can happen. And so I'm just like, it does sound hinge, but still, some brands are like, I don't know, which is weird.

It's hard to be comfortable being cringe, isn't it?

Correct.

Like, weren't. Were there ever. So if you're talking to a young founder and they're like, I'm too nervous to start. I'm anxious. Nobody's going to like me. What if they make fun of me on the Internet? What do you tell somebody to get over that?

Get over it. I'm honestly, I'll be like, do you want to win? Do you want to be successful? Do you want people to learn about your brand? Then who cares? Like, who cares? Like, you've already taken this big step to be an entrepreneur and put everything on the line for something that you love. And all that I'm asking you to do is spend two minutes and film a TikTok. Like, get over yourself. And like, if you don't want to do it, I get that some people are scared. Hire someone. It's literally a resume now or a job description to hire someone to run your TikTok. And it's okay. I always tell people it's okay. If you freak out and you're like, I don't want them to be the face of my brand. It's okay. Like, the Internet moves really quick. If that person decides to move on or you want to promote them, they move into another position and someone else comes. Like, Internet doesn't care.

It's so true. It moves so fast.

Moves so fast. And just put some stats behind TikTok. Poppy has over 3 billion views on TikTok. 1/3 of the platform has seen my face 7 times. So like it is like bananas how much we've gone hard within the paid and the organic piece of it. And then another really big unlock that not a lot of people talk about anymore. Really on the marketing side is linear tv. You might think, oh, what does that mean? So there's streaming, there's cable, there's like big format tv. Tv, right. So a lot of people Hulu and watch on Hulu or YouTube or like different channels. But like we do traditional TV as well. So the Grammys or the Bachelor, like we'll do ads and actual tv, which now most people stream it on Hulu as well. So it's kind of like to your point, a little bit muddy.

Yeah.

If that makes sense. But a lot of people look at TV as what only big brands do. And you can start testing streaming. But our goal at Poppy was always brand awareness. We are not a performance marketing company. And from day one we never looked at an ROI. We are not a traditional DTC company either. So we are 100% Amazon. So we don't actually own our customer data, but we found a way to make it work. So all of our ads go to our website. So we still capture the data of our consumer and then it actually checks out on Amazon on our website.

Whoa.

So it's very different. So like with the iOS update with all of that stuff that everyone freaked out with a couple of years ago, it just didn't affect us because it's not. Wasn't built into our marketing model. So it's always been brand awareness, brand awareness, brand awareness. And so TV was a really big unlock. We've done two super bowl ads, tripled our awareness overnight with that. Now we're into year five brand awareness. Like 50% American knows poppy. We're one in four households. So now we got to maybe change it up a little bit. Brand like a lot of people know it. So. So now we're just now starting to like look at, okay, how do we do more mid funnel ads and kind of start moving people down? But it for the first five years was not a focus that is wild. And so I think that's just, it's. It's really hard to get that through to people is to build your brand, build your story before you scale.

You've built now a multi billion dollar brand, you know, $1.95 billion acquisition by Pepsi.

Yeah.

How do you build a billion dollar brand? What is the formula?

One is you have to have a good product. You have to. I'm sorry, like people can say marketing and this, but no, we have a fantastic product that people love. On second thing is we are a culture. First creator, first community, first digital, first brand. And then we have an incredible team and a lot of people don't put a lot of weight onto having a high performing, strategic, incredible team. So we would say we have great people, process and platform inside Poppy. So they see all this like cool stuff that we're doing. But we have a engine behind us with our, with our team that a lot of people are slow to hire when you're growing. Poppy was the fastest growing beverage in the history of beverage, basically.

I didn't know that.

Yeah. So it's just we were growing so fast. So even people that were working for us had been in the food and bed for like 30 years and they were like, I've never seen anything like this. Even Rohan. Right. So it was a lot of learning together, building our own playbook and doing things differently. And you have to have a really collaborative team to be uncomfortable to do that.

How do you tell if somebody is a high performer or not and a good fit for your team?

You know, culturally, at Poppy, one key thing we always found with like hiring people is at first we'd be like, resume. It's amazing. Look at, look at all of your experience. No, it is hard work. And not like long hours, like burnout hard work, but just hard worker. You show up, you're engaged and you know what, we can teach people stuff. But I will take a hard worker that's willing to earn, learn and like really go getter over someone that has 20 years of experience. And then I think if you can find someone that can do both, like we always call that's a unicorn. Someone that has like crazy experience, willing to do stuff disruptively and like a hard worker, like it's really hard to find.

So if we had to rapid fire and you had to choose between IQ versus curiosity.

Oh, curiosity.

Creativity versus academic background. Creativity, Great resume versus willing to be up early, stay late.

Early, stay late. Street smarts wild, huh?

Because I think everybody thinks the opposite. They're like, they went to Harvard. Must be easy. I always joke about we gotta wash the Harvard off you because you got told you were too smart. Good.

I was a C student in college and I built my business to be a $2 billion. Right. Not alone with my team, but to your Point. I'm like, street smarts. I'm creative. I think different. And it's such a good recipe, though you do have to pair it. You got to have some data.

You need some nerds.

You need some nerds. You need a good finance team. You need a good operations team. So, you know, I think it's just to be disruptive. You need that. And then if you can find a way to pair it with. With some traditional, it's. It's pretty special.

What do you think about business plans? Should every founder have one?

You know, I used to hate them. I used to hate agendas and aops and planning. And then once we got to the point where we went through a year of planning, and I was like, oh, wait, that is kind of fun. And I never thought I would say that, especially for me, because I think you don't like change as an entrepreneur. But when you start planning stuff for 20, 26 now, and we're doing, like, cool launches and innovation, we know what we're doing next summer, you can really do some really disruptive things. So something that we do at poppy is we 80% plan, and then we leave 20% for crazy or unplanned. And I'll give you example. We knew we were going to run linear tv. We tested a piece of creative in November of. I think it was 23. It did really well. We put at the Bachelor of the Grammys, some big premium placement. And the creative was just so good. It was anthemic. It was putting our stake in the ground that we are soda for the next generation. And I was like, this is a Super Bowl. The whole board was like, this is a Super bowl ad. Well, we couldn't find a Super bowl that was sold out. I finally found one, like, the Wednesday before the Super Bowl. We ended up buying the super bowl at, like, the week of the Super Bowl. So, like, we knew we had something good. We knew we were doing tv. Our creative, we filmed it, we had production. It was amazing. But, like, super bowl was not in the plan. And that's an expensive gamble, right? But that's how we. We just, like, were very optimistic, and we could just, like, grab or grab something that was a cultural moment. It was good. We just knew in our guts and a lot it's hard for big businesses to do that. And I feel like still to this day, we're doing that at Poppy, even within the Pepsi system.

What does a Super bowl ad cost you?

You know, you can Google it. I'm not supposed to say, oh, yeah.

That tracks you're actually not allowed to, Right?

Yeah, contractually, say literally. But it's all just chatgpt.

Yeah, it's probably a lot. And it's all over the Internet, but you didn't hear it here. Well, just kidding. We'll link it. I'll find that shit out for you.

Exactly. You say it, not me.

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Okay, so how about this? Is it true that you raised $50 million for your company or something like that?

That is a lot more. Wow. Okay.

Well, yeah, obviously by now.

Yeah.

So I guess my question is about. So you've raised more than 50 million for your company? We'll leave it at that. There's so many people listening that, like, they have what I call a first wallet problem, which is like, they almost can't think beyond their wallet. So they're like, I have $1,000, so I could only start a company with $1,000. And I think there are a lot of limiting beliefs people have about getting other people's money.

Money.

One, they think that sounds scammy, like, how could you get other people's money? What do you mean? Two, it's like, oh, that's only for rich people. Three, it's like, well, I don't know that I could do it because I've never given somebody money, so how could somebody else. It's all these first wallet problems. How do you pitch someone to get them to give you your money, their money?

You know, I think it's a few things. You actually have to have a business plan. A lot of people do not want to invest in an idea, and you have to also know where that money is going. There's nothing more that irks me. When someone says, I want you to invest in my brand, I'm like, what are you going to use it for? And they can't answer that question. You know, look, I'm open to all sorts of things. I've had people say, I want to clean up my cap table. I want to invest it in marketing and people and headcount POS coming in. Look, there's not necessarily a wrong answer. You just kind of need to know. And then once you, like, dig in, you want to do your DD on the. On the due diligence. But, like, you actually have to, like, know what you're talking about, know the numbers. And that was a big thing going on. Being a shark this time that I learned there's a lot of entrepreneurs that came in and they didn't know where their money was. And I'm like, you're gonna go on a national TV show and not know where this $700,000 lives on your P and L, like, know your stuff. And if you don't know it, hire someone. Do a fractional, like, be scrappy, figure it out. And. And I think if you can do that and you can sell, then comes the dream. Sell the dream. But you kind of have to, unfortunately, have a business plan.

Yeah. So what did it sound like when you first pitched Poppy and you got people to invest in you? What was. You have a 30 seconder?

Yeah. So, hey, sharks. No, we had done about 500,000 in revenue. We were a different company called Mother Beverage, like I said, and we just had a great story. I was very passionate about it. We actually had some traction. We had some sales. Right. It wasn't something that wasn't. We also were already in Whole Foods. So originally, in the early days, we had Whole Foods come by our booth, and they were like, you guys need to be in Whole Foods. And that was really an aha moment, too. Of you have a business. So we had a retail retailer. We were going into Sprouts on top of it. So we kind of like, we were like a real business. We were a baby, little baby business. So I think a lot of people. I have a lot of people that DM me now, and they want a lot of my time, and. And it's tough because I don't have so much time, and I have three children at home, and I'm working on other projects and doing different things, and there's nothing, once again, that irks me more as someone saying, hey, I have an idea. I would love to jump on a call with you, and I'll be like, is that all? Like. Like, you want me to build your business for you? Like, you want me to just tell you? Like, you know what I mean? It's. It's a tough. It's. It's tough out there, but I think.

It'S actually good that you say that, because so many people are like PC nonsense on here, and they just want everybody to feel like they're nice and not tell them the truth. And people who are trying to build it, they need the truth. Like, hey, you will not get an investor to take you seriously like that. Don't waste my time, because that will not lead to you getting more money. So I think it's actually really good that people say this, especially women and big women founders, because sometimes we're too nice.

I know.

You know, and it's a problem. Yeah, you probably weren't always that nice when you were growing. You were like, I don't have time for this or this or this, because I got to do what needs to be done in the business.

Your life is so ingrained when you have business and kids and you're grinding, and then you get to the point where they. They feel like, well, you don't have time for me. It's like, I don't have time for myself. Right. And so it's. It's not personal. It's business, and it affects people. For me, my family is incredible. They're one of the biggest supporters. I would not have survived my pop years without my husband. We're Very blessed in that. To your point, the friend thing's hard, and I have so much love for him, but it's really hard.

You work with your husband. I do, too. So hats off to you. I'm a big, big fan of, like, family business. I don't know who talked us out of the idea that family business was always bad, but how important is your partner to you? Like, how important is it the person that you choose as your husband or your spouse?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's more important than they say. Like, you get into marriage with business leaders or investors and stuff. But if you don't have, like, that core, I don't know, like, healthy marriage at home, like, if you. If your home life's a mess, then, like, you're not going to show up. Right. And be able to be successful. And it's interesting because me and my husband started this together. I get all the recognition for Poppy. Right. And so to even have a strong man to allow to live in that situation, I will say, you know, we've talked about it, and he's like, yeah, it'd be nice if I had more recognition, but, like, we're having success, and we're building something that's going to last for generations. Like, it's a true partnership, and we know we're working towards the same goal has been really core to our success. But I'll be honest, now that we're on the other side of it and we're doing kind of, like our own thing, this is the first time ever we haven't worked together, like, day in, day out. And so it's been an interesting, like, how we do this, like, where are you going? How, like, I usually, like, am sitting next to him in the office or doing something. Something. So it's like a whole new wave, and it's actually kind of fun, exciting. We're finding hobbies. It's like this whole new world of what I think probably marriage should have been, not, like, so. So crazy, like, every date night at Poppy. So I. I just think it's so important and then to find someone that lifts you up and, like, understands your values. Because I am a very successful woman, and a lot that can bother a lot of men. Right. And he's just supported me through that. I don't know. Would you say you guys have similar values?

Yeah, I mean, I think I got lucky. He is a former Navy seal, so he never really cared that much about money. He was like, we weren't even playing the same game. There was no competition. Between the two of us, because he really cared about service. That's still really important to him. He cares about like, really, am I doing something that matters? That's super important to him. He needs to feel like needed and respected. And I like the game of business, so I was like, no, I want to build something big. And like, who cares if they respect me? I want to do, you know, and so the two of us together, I think that worked well. But if, if it wasn't for him, I, I do think it would have been really hard to build alone.

I wouldn't be like, Poppy would not be here today if, like, we hadn't done it together. Hands down, I could not have done it alone. It's just. Yeah, it's tough. And, and that's why we say, like, it might not be your husband in business, but having a co founder is special. And even if they're not a co founder, just like the first two employees, like whatever it is that community keeps you sane.

Buddy system. I like it. Do you think that you can become a really successful billion dollar CEO and still have all the same friends, do all the same things you did previously, have Work, life, balance. Is that possible?

No. You know, and I think people need to hear that. And I think people also need to hear it's okay if you're a workaholic. If you love it. There's. I think women get that a lot too, is like, well, why don't you want to be home more and do all this and like have a spa day and do those things? It's like, because I would rather be at. And that's okay. It's when it's burnt out, you don't like it and you don't love it. You should take a break and you should take care of yourself. That's not what I'm saying. But there's this stigma of you should have balance. But like, I don't want balance. I thrive in chaos. I'm obsessed without balance. Right. And so. And that's okay. And I don't think a lot of people talk about that. It's as long as you're mentally okay. I'm not saying don't take care of yourself. I don't know, do you. How do you act with, with that type of thing?

Somebody at my trainer this morning asked me like, what are your hobbies? I was like, that's funny. Hobbies. I don't have time for hobbies right now. I got a hobby and it's, it's called the business. And I Hobby it all day from, like, 6 to 9. You know, like, that's about what we do. And I'm thrilled. Yeah, I wouldn't have to. I wouldn't do it if I. I mean, there are parts of every day I don't like. If I'm super honest. There's at least some part of every day that I'm like, my life. This is really hard. But there's more of the day that I really like, and so I can't imagine doing anything else. And I find it totally uninteresting if I'm honest.

Yeah. So that means you still love it.

Yeah.

Because now I'm on the other side, where we've transitioned to advisors on Poppy. I'm still heavily involved in the creative and marketing, but I picked up golf, and I'm obsessed.

But it's a 180.

It's a 180. But it's almost like I'm taking lessons three times a week. And it's a hobby I can do with my husband, which we've never had hobbies together because Poppy was our hobby to a point. So it's interesting now being on the other side, But I'm almost just as intense with this and, like, want to get it perfect. It's not like, let's go play golf.

You're breaking golf course.

Everything I do. Yeah, Everything I do is a little bit intense.

Yeah, I like that. You know what else I think is really interesting about you? It seems like you never gave up your feminine look. Your long hair, great makeup. Do you think that women need to change the way they look to be taken seriously?

You know, it's interesting look. I've always loved to be a girly girl. I grew up, like, dancing and with makeup, and it's so funny. I just never thought I had to change, I guess. To your point. I don't think so. I think especially now within tech and beverage and. And cbg, like, showing up even in sweatpants. Like, I'm okay with that if my employees are at work in sweatpants, because, like, who cares if they're working and they're performing, let them be them. There's many a time I've gone to a board meeting in sweatpants and. And. Or. Or in a certain suit. Right. It's like, however I felt that day, that was, like, my personality, and I. I'm seeing that shift, honestly, in the business world, maybe, not like in the banking world and finance. That's when I go to, like, New York and everybody from Goldman to JP to you're just like, you guys put the suit away, dude.

I fell into that too. I cut my hair super short when I started in banking and I have really thick hair, so I just look like a mushroom. I mean, it was horrifying for everybody involved.

Put a picture up on the.

No, it's probably out there somewhere. But I think I really felt like this is what a businesswoman looks like. And now I'm not so sure that being attractive is not actually really an unfair advantage too.

Right?

And being feminine is actually kind of an unfair advantage because not a lot of billion dollar CPG founders look like you.

You should do you. And it's what I feel comfortable in. You know what I mean? Like, I like it. And it's, it's the beauty of being a founder too. You can kind of do whatever the fuck you want. The best part, literally the best part.

Is it also true I was, I don't know, on your website or somewhere that you got Post Malone, Haley Bieber, Kylie Jenner, Billie Eilish, Russell Westbrook. I actually don't know who that is. Jlo, Olivia Mun to either invest or partner with you.

So it's interesting. Yes and no. So we are what we call like celebrities favorite soda, culture's favorite soda, college's favorite soda. Like we really ingrained into like culture, music, lifestyle. We were really good at that and soda. So we have a really big motto at Poppy is we have unlimited samples. We send out 300,000 packages a year. Like crazy, crazy amount of samples. Like I don't. That number's probably even higher now. And so our secret to success was keeping all of these celebrities stocked up. And I would say for two years we stocked up. Kylie Jenner, Stassi, her friend, all this stuff. And then it organically showed up one day in her TikTok talks and it just organically started becoming part of their lives. Same thing with like Haley we stocked up with no, like we didn't ever ask for them to post do anything. And then it organically, she got papped with it all over la, right? So I think a lot of people are like, well, they don't want to invest in that because they don't see the roi. It's a longer burn ROI on it and it's just like hoping and praying now. Someone like jlo, love jlo found out she was a big fan. We reached out, we did end up working with her. And then with Post Malone, same. He was like on a couple podcasts just talking about how he had to give up soda because it was so bad for him. And I found out it was because he had discovered Poppy. So we organically did a partnership with them. So it's this thing where it's like a combination where we show up. I mean, like, Pedro Pascal is like, papped with Poppy. Like, it's crazy. It's just so. It still like blows my mind every day.

That is out of control. I mean, he is like sort of the IT guy right now too. So does this mean that you go hang out with all of them?

I wish. I will say I've become good friends with Olivia Munn. We did. She's. She was like one of our og. She's a sweetie. She has kids. We have kids around the same age. And she was like one of our first. First. She is best friends with Rohan's right hand, Stevie, and they became friends and she invested really early, like one of the first. And she was such a good partner. She posted us. She got papped with it. She organically just like loved it. And so, you know, when you get like a good partnership like that, you do kind of get close to him, which is fun.

Yeah. Well, you're in the kind of the trenches of business together, which is. Which is tough. What does get papped mean? Does that mean paparazzi? I'm so not cool. That's so funny. How about let's talk about the other side? Like, have you ever had a really big disagreement or investor meeting or something go really sideways in your meeting? My dad calls them like your head in the hands in the middle of the night, no idea what to do next.

You know, I think it's so funny. There's a lot of that and I wish I would have journaled, I swear, where there was literally screaming, fighting, not knowing. But I think that it brings good resolution to have those moments. And, you know, one that I can kind of think of is our cans are actually direct printed. Right? So they look like a regular can. They're printed. But when you start out in the early days, you do sleeved cans.

Oh, yeah.

And they're very expensive, but they're really pretty and they pop on the shelf. Right. And so there was a while where we were like fighting over should we move to direct print? Cuz it might not be colorful. It was like this whole thing we didn't make time for it was like so like, it was just really dramatic. And then we finally made the switch and it saved us like $17 million that year.

Whoa.

Like, because the sleep cans are more expensive, so there's Certain things we were like, that was dumb. We should have done that earlier. The conflict got us there. It was like this whole thing and then finally made us a priority as the money pushed over the edge. So there's stuff like that, but I can't think of like a. A drag down. I'm sure there's a lot of them. Don't get me wrong. But you like. I like, love the good and the bad.

I know. Yeah. It's funny. When I wrote my book, I have. I have a guy I worked with, my editor Charlie, who's amazing. If you ever write one, you should work with him. But he. He was really funny. He's like, you know what I've realized about a lot of founders? You guys have like a weird reverse amnesia.

It's so true.

And you. You do not. Actually. I literally was like, Charlie, I don't. I know that there's been times where I've been stolen from, lied to, cheated. Da da da da. I literally cannot remember. So he would have to prime me with all of that. Of these, which maybe is like childbirth or something. They say you can't remember.

Yeah. I was literally going to liken it to that. It's. You have it and you're like, I'll never do that again. And then you find yourself pregnant in a year. But I still. I'm like, I don't know if I could do it again. But I. It's the same thing with people, like, are you going to start another company? I'm like, I'm absolutely could do it again. And they're like, but you just came off that. And it's. You just get the bug y. And it's so fun. And if you're having fun, like I said, then, then you keep going.

So what does it take to sell a company to pepsi for like $1.95 billion? How does that even start happening?

Yeah, so especially in beverage, there's literally three people that can buy you or you can go public. And the reason why you do want to partner with a strategic. In this case, it was Pepsi for us is for. I want like our mission at Poppies to revolutionize soda for the next generation. I want it to be the soda my kids and grandkids kids know as soda. And the only way to do that is to get into more hands. And the best people that can do that is Pepsi through distribution. I mean, they have iconic branding systems in place, leadership, like so many good things that you can. That you can gain value on going into a system like that. And and another example is like college campuses, they own all the big contracts on all of them. You can, we could not actually be sold on the college campuses where the official said of the Lakers, we could not be sold in the state medium, right? And so it's these things that these big unlocks that you have. So for us it was always a goal from Shark Tank to Angle is to hopefully get on to like Pepsi's truck, right? The American dream, right? And so for us it was kind of like always a goal and then you just start dating, right? So we had been talking to them for a while. You kind of have meetings, you go back and forth and then we just had like a gangbusters growth. We had triple digit growth year over year. And it's at one point too where you can get too big where people don't want to acquire you. And we were just like, we're kind of in this interesting sweet spot. We'd been talking to them and they just seemed like it was just the right timing. You almost like don't know because you're like, is it too soon? Is it too late? But they ended up giving us such an incredible offer and then they guaranteed all of our employees, employees could stay on and they could keep Poppy. Poppy. And so we're like this subsidiary still within the system, but we're still running as like the Poppy engine. And so for me it was like kind of check, check, check. And so between, you know, us as founders and the board and the senior leadership, we all just like in our guts felt like it was right, the right time and it was like cohesive. We all felt it. Nobody was like, no. You know, because if one person's off, there's doubt and it casts doubt. And so we were like, if we all feel good, then this is probably the right time. Time.

How long do you think you had to start talking to people about this acquisition before it went through? And like, did you have a strategy about that? Were you like, hey, I want to build these relationships so one day when we need it, we're already going to be warm.

Well, the good news with Rohan, our shark, he had just been in Beverage for a long time. He had sold multiple companies, he had great relationships. Our CEO Chris had been in beverage for 30 years, had great relationships. So that goes to the piece of like, yes, we had a great story with, with me and Stephen, our founders, but we also had great like team around us to help guide us through that. And it was so fun to like go through it. Now I'm like, oh man, I want to do that again.

You know, I think there are a lot of people listening and we've realized one thing in particular lately, David and I, that a lot of people don't know how to communicate with authority. Like they would not know how to stand up in the room with Pepsi and express what they want, or even how to come on a podcast and be taken seriously. I'm curious for you, but do you think there's are mechanisms to be taken more seriously in the way that you speak, maybe? Especially as a female CEO?

Well, you know, for me, it's always been a little bit harder as a woman to be taken serious in a room full of men. Right. Especially in beverage. I'm the only female founder of an exit of this size ever. Right. And so especially in beverage, it's like a he heavily male dominated thing. But the one thing I will say is the teenager team embraced my vision and crazy versus pushed it away. And so I'm very blessed with that because I've heard absolute horror stories. I've heard stories of people being like, they want me to change my clothes. I can't have fun anymore and do it. I was just like, you started this company for a reason. Believe in yourself. And so I always just tell myself that anytime I'm going in somewhere into a big meeting, it's like, I did this. None of them started a company. They've gotten behind us and in this. But I did this and I deserve to be here versus as a female in the room, I can't. No, I'm not putting myself into that box. And once again goes back to support system. My husband is always my biggest cheerleader and being he, he was obviously in a lot of those meetings as well. And so it's like a little bit comforting to have like your, your team and your cheerleaders behind you. But I was challenged a lot, a lot through the years. And I've even had other people say, you've changed the way I lead because I thought it had to be a different way and you showed me different. So it's like growth on both ends.

Did you. Do you ever remember somebody in particular saying to you, like, you're not gonna make it? No chance.

You know, it goes back to probably that amnesia. If they did, I'd probably blocked it out, whatever scoreboard, literally, like, I. I'm a forever optimist. You can tell me. And look, I've cried. I. My ego's been hurt over the years. I've been in a room where people don't understand my value. And that's honestly harder is when people don't recognize your value, when you're doing amazing things and they're bringing you down because you're shining. That's honestly a harder place to be when people are trying to bring you down because they don't understand your value than the other. But I do think it's ever evolving. You get really thick skin as an entrepreneur, wouldn't you say?

Yeah, Maha. Yeah. Now I gotta giggle.

Yeah.

I'm like, put that other chip on the shoulder there. Got a few of them, light them up, you know?

And, you know, I think a lot of people don't get help as entrepreneurs. So, yes, I know people talk about, like, mental health and therapy, but was more successful for me was a business coach.

Yeah, that's a great. I totally agree. Like, tactical as opposed to, let's go back to your trauma when you were 2.

Exactly. And it was like, okay, here's your problem. How are we going to win? And it's such a better mindset for me as an entrepreneur, to your point. And then looking back on my childhood, I was like, I forgot about that. Like, I'm on to the next. You know, I always say, like, reach out. Find someone that can help you get a business coach. Talk to people, build on that. And, like, it's okay to get help, too. Half the time. A lot of people think you have to hold it in, do it all yourself. Sometimes it's hard to stop because it's go, go, go.

Oh, my God, I'm so excited. Our annual event, MSAU's come out. This event just hits different. It sells out every year. It is in person. There's a couple hundred of us that all get together, so make sure you get your tick if you want to. What is this event about? Well, if you want to hang out with, like, billionaires, if you want to hang out with millionaires, but also plumbers and secret agents, and also some of the biggest names in government and policy today, you're going to want to be here. Let me tell you some of my favorite. Some of my favorite little comments about this event. My friend Sam Par says this event is legit. We had a spy, a billionaire, and a hedge fund manager hanging out with a plumber. What? Another one? Nick Huber said, honestly, it's too good. You need to raise the price to this thing. No, I will not. Nick Pace says, whatever you do, don't come if you don't want to. Meet Navy SEALs, buy businesses, make more money, or hang out with fellow psychopath owners. MSA is my favorite event because we break things down live. We do workshops to figure out business buying. But we're also going to hear from, like, I don't know, if you're into billionaires like Joe Lonsdale. Maybe you want to hear from, like, a special surprise guest I can't even tell you about. And you also want to hear, like, how do you buy your first garbage truck and turn it into a million dollars a year? That's Spencer, who will teach you that. Anyway, tickets are out right now. You're going to want to get them. It's in Austin, Texas. It is going to be so legit. I can't wait to meet all of you guys there. All right, see you at Ms. House. Oh, it stands for Main street over Wall street, by the way. It's not like s or cows or anything. It's about Main street over Wall Street. Dates November 2nd through 4th. And just so you know, due to personal reasons, we're going to be turning it up a notch this year.

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You will not want to miss this. The Beast in Me is now playing only on Netflix. What would you tell somebody who's in a room where they're not being valued or respected? How do you flip the switch on that?

Okay, one of the hardest things to do is to walk away and let them figure it out without you. So in that moment, it is not going to serve you to be angry, to lash out, to speak your mind because they're not listening to you already in the first place. So something that was a really hard lesson I've had to learn in my career is, okay, well, if you don't love my value, then do it yourself. One of two things are going to happen. They're going to succeed without you and if it's your business in the end that's a good thing, right. That means you were probably holding on OR2, they're going to understand that value and ask you to come back and help. Help. But there like you getting angry, you freaking out, making a scene, letting your ego get in the way. Now there's also opportunity later on to have a one on one and have a conversation outside the room if it really is bothering you and something was said and you're like that was really disrespectful, don't do it in the front of everyone. Have a one on one. Cuz then half the time they'll probably realize it, have a normal conversation and it'll, it'll get fixed. But a lot of people want to like school someone in person. It's like that's not a good look either.

Yeah, so what does that sound like? So, so afterwards if you feel like you've been disrespected and you want to circle around and have a conversation to fix that, what do you say?

I mean you're literally be real, tell them how you feel, you know, in a respectful, kind, calm thing. Right. Like hey, you literally shot down my idea in front of the entire team. I would really appreciate if you didn't do that because half of the stuff that we're doing in this brainstorm, for example is throwing crazy ideas out and that's part of this process. And you doing that underminded me in front of the team. It also you can see it on people's faces when they don't see your value. Like the teammates. Like I've had people say stuff and you can sign to see them. Like it gets uncomfortable and so hey, like let's just you know, work on that and like how do you feel about it? Right. Like hear their side of it too. So I think people don't like conflict, they don't like talking about things. And honestly if you're going to be a good leader and a business man or woman, you have to be able to hit confidence conflict as it happens, not two weeks later because it manifests so true.

Like focus less on exactly what you say and just go, go say the thing and then you'll get more used to it and those repetitions will lead to like better rhyming as you continue to get to get reps. Yeah.

And I think with value it's so funny because you usually move through stages of you're angry, you're sad, and then to me, then you need to move to building to fix it. Right? So it's like a normal emotion people go through. And it's like, okay, now I always want to kind of get to that third stage really quick. I'm like, okay, you pissed me me off, you hurt my feelings. But now how are we going to fix it and like go to problem solving? It's really hard for people to, to do that though, to get that space because staying in that angry and hurt phase, like, sometimes it feels better.

It's very easy to just go around and sort of continue to tell that story to everybody too. Guess what happened to me? I'm a victim. I totally get that. What about what you know, do you use different self talk? Like, do you say words to yourself like, I'm stressed, I'm anxious, I'm. This. What is, what does the voice in your head sound like as a billion dollar founder?

I'm tired. I am tired. I have three boys. I have a problem. I don't say no to anything and I don't take time for myself to just do anything. So for me, it's mostly I'm tired, but it's always I can do it. And I rarely say I, I'm, I, I don't get anxiety like hardcore. I'm sure I probably do, but it's not everyone has it right. So I'm not saying I'm, I'm not. But I do wish I could sleep better. I would tire. Like you're, you're just going to be tired. Like I don't know how to explain it. And so like, even tonight I'm like, I'm going to go home. I want to watch movie and go to bed at night. It was a long week. And then tomorrow I'll wake up and be like, wow, I feel so much better.

I know. 100%.

Yeah.

One of my favorite mentors said said, do you want to give up or do you just need a nap? And I was like, I need a nap. You're right. Literally. That's such good advice.

Sleep is a beautiful thing that can just make you feel better. And it's so crazy, so simple. But I love it when people like give me the recipe to the. I'm just like, get some sleep.

It's so true. Yeah. One of my other, I was at church the other weekend and the pastor had such a good saying. He was like, you know, sometimes it's really hard. They're kind of these young guys, they're Here, it's called Red Rocks. Have you ever heard of it?

No, no, no. We go to Austin Ridge Bible.

Okay, I've gone there too, which I love also. I like this Red Rocks crew because it's in a movie, the Converted movie theater. They're like four maybe sub 33 year old guys. Super young, young families and they're just building a church for the first time ever. You're watching them do it live. I love something about like that Young Hustle. I just like respect the hell out of it. So anyway, so sometimes I go, I went to church that day and he said this line that was so good. He's like, well, there's the guy who's sort of the head pastor, then this one that was speaking and he's like, you know, it's hard. So sometimes, you know, even though we have this big mission and I have all this faith, I want to give up. And he's like, so, you know, there's been many a night where I've called the head pastor and said, you know what? I just can't do this anymore. I'm sorry, I quit. And his response is so good. And he's had to say it to me a few times, which is no problem. Quit tonight. I'll see you tomorrow morning.

That is so good.

Isn't that good?

Yeah, it's like, just get some sleep.

Just get some sleep. Sleep come back. So I'm totally gonna use that because I do think, I think sometimes we talk ourselves into all of the work non stop and we think about how hard something will be instead of how great it'll be when we hit it. And that's, that's really an easy way to talk yourself out of all the things you want in life.

And time will really help if something's like really hard to your point, like, put aside, give it some time and then revisit it. And it usually isn't as hard.

Yeah.

At the end of the day, it's so true.

So what about if you had to pick sort of, you're looking at all these, these new Young yous potentially at Shark Tank, and you're looking across their skill set and you're like, all right, I know that the best entrepreneurs, they need three skills. Like, what are the top three skills that every good entrepreneur needs?

I mean, hustle, of course. Willing to learn, grow and partner. So it's that collaboration and then doing it, at least at the beginning that they love the passion. Because I know you said like, passion needs to turn into profit, but if someone Is starting a business to get rich. It's to me, not the best recipe for success. So you need to have that passion for whatever you're doing for those nights you want to quit. Because you'll probably get into a situation where you want to quit. And if you're just doing it for the money, you'll probably quit.

Yeah, it's a good point. Do you think you could be just as passionate about any business now that you've run Poppy? Like, are you just passionate about the game of business or are you passionate about soda?

You know, I wish I didn't know as much as I know now. Right. Because back then I had no fear. I didn't know anything about beverage. I mean, beverage is a beast. You're literally shipping water. And it's a very capital intensive category. So for me it's like, yes. If I'm looking at it right, beauty has really great high margins. Supplements have high margins. Right. Something I know I won't want to do is run a DDC company because they usually cap out about 250 million million. I know all these things. So then my head, when I'm thinking about what I'm doing next, I'm like going through check, check, check. Whereas before I hadn't. I didn't know any of that. And so. Yes. But now with the knowledge, I think passion is almost key because I don't want to. I. I don't sound bad. I don't need the money.

No, it doesn't sound bad about that.

I mean, look, I love to make money. I want to continue to grow, I want to do business. It's those things. But it's like I need to find something I'm passionate about to then willing of my time. Right. Because I sacrificed 10 years of my life. Life. It turned out incredible for Poppy. And you know, you wouldn't call it sacrifice, but you like, I worked hard, so it has to be special and the founder has to be right and then. Or I want to do it myself again.

Yeah. Do you think you will eventually do another one?

I think so. You know, it's pretty new and I'm still pretty invested in Poppy and my time and you know, I. I really want to see the success and it be successful in the Pepsi system. So it's. It's hard. I haven't quite let go of that and I think once I finally get it to where my baby's at college and it's good and she's moved in and she's like working on her own, I think that it will be. But I do think I have another one in me.

Yeah. I mean, it's actually pretty wild how fast that thing has grown with how young you are too. That is definitely not normal. What about, you know, was it hard to take away complete control of Poppy? Like, did you have a moment where you're like, God, I shouldn't have done that, or I need to go on an ayahuasca retreat or something in order to get comfortable with this?

Really hard because something, you know, I made a choice early on to put my face attached. On the face of Poppy is me. I am Poppy. Like, I'm very attached to the brand where some people will have a very successful business and not a lot of people know who the founder is. Right. I'm very public facing, so I'm very connected to it. So it's almost like, what do I do now? And I will say that has been a little bit hard. And. And it's like you don't sell your house and then keep a key and tell them where to put the curtains and the couches. Right. So it's. It's definite. Definitely a growth period that I'm going through. And even in the past, like, for example, it was me and my husband. We knew pretty early on we didn't know everything. And it was that ego piece of. It was really hard. But we brought in expertise. I was running the marketing. I stepped down from running the marketing and just moved over to just run the creative. And we brought in a traditional cmo. There was times along the way that we kind of let go control, control during. Slowly, during the step. So then when it was this time, it was just. It felt good, but it's still hard. Yeah. It's only human.

Do you have any secrets to hiring great execs or leaders? Like, what have you realized? Obviously you know what your top performers look like, but how could you tell? Like this person versus that person could be in charge of the entire marketing of your business. That's a big role.

I think culture is a huge piece. So some.

Do you do anything weird to check if they are culture fit? Do you make them like pound poppies or what it like.

I know, right? People always like, did you give them homework? I'm like, yeah, you can give someone homework, but it still isn't like a culture, like personality, the working values. So we had like three values at Poppy. He's like, do you keep it real? Can you have real conversation? Can you do something really creative and disruptive? And then are you collaborative and so and then obviously the hard working on top of it. But for me, the creative piece was really big. So. So someone might say in finance, like, how are you creative finance? I was like, our finance team was potentially the most creative because to make sure we didn't go out of stock and like keeping the wheels on the bus and raising like that. You have to be very creative to really scale a business as quickly as we scaled. Right. Same with the ops team and the sales team and, you know, all of these things. So when I speak to creativity, it's not just on the marketing side, which I think is really important. I hate to say this, this, but stealing from other companies, like where you are networking and you're seeing someone else baller balling out and like them being. You're like, I need that person. You know, there are instances where people are on the market and they're looking and like a business went out of business, you know, like, but food and Bev is very small community of people that really know what they're doing. And you kind of know them all.

Oh, I think you got to go hunt your top talent. I wish you. You didn't. But every single one of my top performers we have stalked and then eventually bothered enough to where they decided to say yes.

I'm glad you're saying the same thing.

I wish, I wish your answer was different. You're like, it's just this website.

But you know what, it's different for lower level.

100%.

You know what I mean? I was really big on pulling from other verticals, like beauty and fashion and young. And at one point we were like 65 female at poppy because it was like part of our DNA from senior leadership down. And it was. We found like, hiring women was really good. We found like certain, like fun little hacky things. But we hunt. We were very young, hired young, like very Gen Z forward. And it's like those are the people that understand the culture, especially like on the marketing and creative side.

Yeah. The creative thing is actually really, really, like, clever. Like, I can't. What did you say exactly? You said, said, like, what was the second value at poppy about creativity?

So we keep it real. We just. We are creative disruptors and we do it better together.

Yeah. So you were saying, like, when have you creatively disrupted something would be one of the. Is that one of the questions you would like, how could you tell if they were creative?

Totally. Exactly. And it's so funny. It's the simplest thing. Awesome. Like, what brands do you think are cool and Creative and doing something disruptive right now. And if they can't name a single one or they say, like, no offense. Oh, Gap just did that really cool campaign. So I can't even say Gap right now, but like Asics or something, you.

Know, And I'm like, Costco's killing it. Yeah, okay.

Yeah. You know, it's something like that. So you can really read a lot when people don't understand. But then it does, like, does a finance person or an opposition need to do that? Right. But you'll be a better culture fit if you can actually, like my daughter's obsessed with. It doesn't have to be something you're with obsessed, like so and so. Right. Like understanding, like that piece was, was really interesting. And then like, it's the network piece of, you know, and the best people are the best people. And then poppy people wanted to work there. So we would put an application up and we would get like 10,000, 20,000 applications. It was very overwhelming. So we brought recruiting in house. You know, we have I think two to three full time recruiters depending on the vertical. And then the one piece that's really hard to recruit for is the creative side.

Yeah, it's so, so hard.

It's really hard because most people get into like creative worlds, like a graphic designer or creative directors, and they want to be creative. They don't want to manage people. And so. And do you really want them managing people? Right. And so you once again have to find those unicorns that can do both. And I feel like we, we have a killer team that can do both. But it, it's a lot harder to find.

But it. You know, I, I accidentally almost snuck into your office that time when I was telling you about with the leasing. Cause the door was open, you know, when you come off the elevator or whatever. And, and what I loved, I loved multiple things, but I loved that it looks like your cans and you even have like a component of it. Like the bright colors, you know, the shiny, like it's just the whole thing is. It all matches. And so I can see how like deep your culture must run because you know when other people repeat your words back to you when your like headquarters also matches what it looks like online, I don't think people realize how hard that is. And to do it in a way that's not a caricature. Right?

Exactly. Yeah. Building a brand is really hard. It's easy to have a product, it's easy to have a business, but creating like a movement is really hard. And so Honestly, with me transitioning out that and what you're saying makes me sleep at night because of the incredible team. And they get it and they know the brand, they know culture and they're proud of poppy. Right? So, like, that makes me, like, sleep better. But I will say, say it just was fun. Like, we were just like a fun place. We grew quick. We were like a family. We were a business and brand first, always. And I always say, like, create. Like, know who you are before you launch a brand. Like, do the work, understand your consumer. What are you saying? Who. Who are you speaking to? Who's your creative consumer who actually drinks Poppy? Like, we knew we did a ton of brand work and brand house and who's our muse and all of those different things we worked really hard on. So we knew who we were before we scale, whereas a lot of people scale. They have a business and then you try to create a brand, it's a lot harder.

It's so hard.

And then to build a community once you're big, like, it's just really hard. So we just kind of built community and brand from the beginning.

It's so good. I mean, I'm obsessed with this idea of. I was listening to Elon Musk the other day talk about showmanship is salesmanship. And I loved that line because it is like everything is kind of show business. It's all like. We call it magic moments here. But how can we have every single person who interacts with us feel like there's some little moment of magic? Not everything is right, but like some moment where they're like, this is unexpected. I kind of think that customers can tell when you really care. And if you compare like that caring or if you can pair the caring with creativity, it's rare, you know, because it's. It's a little hard to be creative and out there, that means you have to be a little weird and that's a little scary.

Being a little weird and unhinged and cringy.

Yeah. And so I love that I'm going to bother the team. We were just talking about that in the meeting today. I was like, you know, we had a. We're having an event and we have this event every year. It's one of the biggest events we do. And I think it's one of our best give back things we do. But we were going to have this little pre call and then the way they were setting it up, I was like, oh, can you imagine going to a hotel you're excited to stay at? You get to the hotel and the lobby's like dirty and it doesn't look like the hotel rooms that you saw online. Like, are you checking into that hotel? Are you like, I'm out of here. I saw the preview. I don't want to go to the main thing. And so I was like, we had to be so careful in every single moment. If they get a little taster of yours and it's been out in the sun and your third party logistics wasn't very good and so now it tastes bad. Like they're never going to buy Poppy again.

One chance. Yeah. Right.

Fascinating.

Yeah. And it comes down to. We think of that in a lot of layers. So the first thing that gets the consumer's attention is our packaging in store. And we've spent so much time on this packaging. We have like a designer dedicated full time to our packaging and down to what do you. On the front colors, the. The fruits. We're designing a new flavor right now. I was just on a call yesterday with it and like, how does it. Is it literal? Is it illustrative? Like, we're so, so like that's our first line of defense of like the brand as a consumer. And to your point, if we throw an event for creators, it is so next level. But you know what? If we were actually getting together, I'm going next week. We're doing our national meeting. We're all getting together at Poppy. We create our employees like our creators. So they're going to show up to the hotel, they're going to have influencers or bags in there. The events, we make them feel like they're at a Poppy event that we would have done for a creator. And like that's part of our culture is like cre. Why would we treat our employees differently? And so we do kind of go all out with that stuff. And we. Our marketing budgets are a lot higher than I think a lot of others on the brand building side and the culture side and the things just to allow us to do stuff like that and really treat our employees as well.

Almost like, where did you learn that from? Like, why did you start doing that?

You know, we were just forced to really do things differently with. With in Covid. And I don't know, I just. I love people. I have like a good heart too with it. And you just gotta like reward the people that are working so hard for you. I don't know how to explain it. And then I will say the brand piece of just kind of like came as we went. We weren't afraid to listen to our consumer and change and, you know, always work on it. A lot of people think, like, well, I figured that out three years ago. Like, we're doing, like, brand every three months. And we're keeping the core of who we are. We do a lot of it internally. Stevie, who I talked earlier about with Rohan, secondhand person. She's incredible in brand. Been working with brands, like, so we bring in a lot of expertise. We have a great in house, quote, unquote agency with, like, designers, our directors, and stuff like that. So it's just an ongoing process. And I wouldn't even say it's like, all me. It's like, it's just poppy.

Yeah. Well, it's. It's hard. I mean, we. I never thought brand mattered that much because I was in finance. I'm like, does the math. Math. You know, the spreadsheet. I was a spreadsheet girly. And so I didn't think it really mattered how you dressed or, like, what I, you know, makeup or anything about brand except, like, make it look trustworthy. That would have probably been my main thing. And then when I started having some consumer businesses and then being on the Internet, I realized, oh, my God, I have this so wrong. And that when you're maybe more junior entrepreneurs, entrepreneur brand, it seems like, listen, I'm trying to pay rent brand. What are you talking about? Like, I'm trying to just make it happen. But then if you want to get to the big leagues, the difference between Poppy and some knockoff soda that somebody else is doing is your brand.

Correct.

That's where all the margin is. Right.

It's literally why we were acquired.

Yeah.

Is our brand and our core audience of, like, we are soda for the next generation. And we've built it on a brand and a lifestyle. Like, people match their makeup and their nails and their outfits to Poppy cans. Yeah. And it's like, that is, like, unreal with. It's. It's so funny. I'll go to conferences and I do all sorts of stuff, and one of my favorite things, and it might sound creepy at first, is I'll have older gentlemen come up to me and say, can I take a picture? And they'll say, it's for my daughter. My daughter is obsessed with you. I love Poppy. We love it in our household. And, like, they're just as excited because their. Their kids are doing something better. And it's like this movement, and it's just so, so cool to see this type of movement happening. But, I mean, it took us years to get there. We. We just invested in brand from. From day one. Our marketing budgets were way higher than they should have been. And. And honestly, I will say, like, I have to give it to, like, Rohan and Stevie. Like, they're great brand builders, and, like, I learned a lot from. But the. It's just the team and just. It was just, like, it was part of our culture. I don't know if that makes sense 100%.

You know what? Yeah. Now that I think about it, I have a dear girlfriend who has four. Four little girls, and two of them are obsessed with poppy. Now that. Because I remember hearing about it from them. They live in Dallas. That's. That's probably also another part of it. But they. They have, like, a Poppy party or something. Is that a thing the little girls do? And they have, like, different tasting when new ones come out?

Yes.

Whoa.

Poppy parties. I mean, we have sororities during rush. They have a theme days, and one of them be, like, poppy Rush day. And they're like colored cans and orange. Orange. And, like, so much so that we started seeing that trend online that this year we did customize sorority cans.

God, that's good.

With. With them. So we sent it, and then it had their sorority on it. So they were posting it, and it went absolutely viral. And, like, that is a brand building initiative that has a higher ROI than doing a commercial because it's just part of the movement. And a lot of people wouldn't see that trend. They wouldn't invest in the cans and buy the licensing and do all that. But we just see, like, brand first, culture first created at first.

So smart. Yeah. Plus those. Those ladies who do the dancing in front of the. God, I sound so old again. But, like, they do, like. Like at Mizzou or whatever. They're like all these hot, young, young little sorority chicks out front.

So much millions of views that literally last year, we live here in Austin. I went to the Zeta house and I danced with them in front of the thing.

Yeah.

Literally, I was like, this can be great content once again.

Are you a good dancer?

I'm a pretty good dancer. Yeah.

That's. I really wanted to.

I was like, a dance major in college for, like, year before I realized, like, what am I doing? But no, we. But this year, we sent Alex to the campus, and she.

I think I did see. So that was your activation?

Yes.

With her.

Yeah.

That's wild. I swear, I researched before this podcast, but you guys are kind of.

We're kind of everywhere.

Everywhere. And then I didn't even Realize it was you. That goes back to the 40% household.

We have is so funny. We have someone on our team, Sophia. Her title's VP of Culture. And a lot of people might confuse that with. With hr. No, it's all things cultural. So it's an entire vertical that we have within Poppy. So it goes the influencer, the social, the events, the partnerships, like, all things culturally in culture report up into her. And so, like, that's how serious we take it.

That is brilliant. And so you're kind of like, always able to capture a trend or capture a movement and figure out how does Poppy become sort of a marquee portion of, like, what's happening right now? Are there other brands that do that?

Well, today, you know, everyone always is, like, who do you look up to? Who. It's so hard because we've literally built the playbook.

Yeah. Like, Duolingo had a moment. I feel like where they were really doing that. But that's not so much now, right?

Yeah. I would say Duolingo did a good job online and with their mascot. I've always thought, like, mascots are a little cringy. I'll be honest. Like, people dressing up in cans and stuff is, like, weird me. But it worked for them.

Yeah.

It was like a moment.

Plus, what else are you going to do with that? You have a beautiful can. You know, they're like, here's my app.

Yeah, totally. So, no, that this has been a really hard question. And I've, like, always the only people that I'm like, obsessed with that move at the speed of culture, that they're huge and it's a billion dollar brand because it's. It's really easy for, like, younger brands to, like, do stuff, be more nimble, but skims.

Oh, yeah.

Somehow they figure out market initiatives where they'll get like, the White Lotus cast in a campaign three months after it airs. And I'm just like. To move that quick with such, like, a cultural moment is pretty impressive.

Yeah, those nipple bras were brilliant.

So good, right?

Yeah. She. You know what else I really respect about them? They do not give a fuck. They're like, do we win? We don't care what people think.

I love. They're like business women and people underestimate. And that's why I think it goes back to, like, where you can be in fashion and dress different and do things and put yourself out there and be a badass, like, businesswoman. Like, you can have it all nowadays and be a mom and not be a mom. And right like, you can kind of. It's. I really think this female movement is like our time now. Is it harder? Yeah, it's harder, yeah. But being an entrepreneur is hard.

Yeah, yeah. All hard. So just choose it.

Yeah, yeah.

I. I kind of want to end on. It's such a good point that you said about the Kardashian this, though, because we've been thinking about that lately. We do these, like, little photo shoots, but we riffed on, like, iconic, like a Kim. Remember Kim K. When she was man of the year with the Cheetos bag? And then even, like, even that I was like, oh, it's slightly off. She's kind of making fun of it. Kind of not. It was so well executed. And then Taylor Swift, when she had the cat around her shoulders.

So good.

Do you remember that one?

Yeah. Everyone calls it a catwoman, Right.

So she's like, yeah, what? You know, time, Woman of the year, whatever.

Yes.

And so we did these little things and they really hit. And I was nervous about doing them because I thought, well, that means we're not very serious. Like, are they going to take. I've got a Cheetos bag. Why do I have a cat on my shoulders? But you kind of got to get over it.

But it's almost going against the grain.

Yeah.

Of like, what you guys are doing, and it puts you out there and then you get eyes on it, and at the end of the day, you're winning. When more people learn about what you're doing.

Yeah.

It's when, like, as long as you're not doing something, like, don't get canceled, like, you know, out there, you know, but, like, that's not going to get you. That's just gonna get eyes on you and it's gonna be fun. And you know what? If you're having fun doing it, like, do it.

Yeah. Plus, like, I think a little inoculation against cancellation every year is fine.

Yeah.

I try to throw out a few things that might get me canceled every year, because then.

Just on the edge.

Yeah. Just like right there at the edge. Little vaccine. So I want to end basically with. With this. So you're going on. You are now inspiring this next generation of entrepreneurs, which is so cool. What would you tell the, you know, 20, 21 year old that's listening that wants to build a business like you? What would you tell them today?

Get online and start telling your story now. Building community is going to be an army of people behind you and everyone. Like, almost think like an influencer, be a creator, be something that you don't know what your logo looks like. Get online and ask. You might have two people tell you, but hey, that's a audience of two giving you an opinion. You can take it and build on it or not. But I think a lot of people are just still scared. They see a lot of brands online. They're like, ugh, it's so saturated. Everyone's doing that now. Well, it's probably because it's working. So I know that sounds really simple, but as a business start now because it takes a really long time to build a core community. And you don't want customers. You want community.

So good. Especially in a world of AI where everything's easier to build. The moat is community. It's how many people want to buy your stuff because they want to associate.

And loyalty. Right. And it's nowadays consumers are a little bit not as loyal. They're like tri brands. It's a little bit hard, especially Gen Z. You're seeing like they're not as loyal or they'll just try something and it's flip flopping like all of that. But if you have a core community, you'll get that loyalty as well.

Okay, and where should everybody follow you? Allison.

Yeah. So obviously the drink poppy channels, you have to check it out. But then obviously on my own it's Allison Ellsworth.

Are we gonna see the dancing tiktoks? If we go to your TikTok you will.

We'll have to scroll up so much. So literally I'm so excited. This they do dance youe have the stars Austin and and they pick five women and five men. So I'm dancing this year in a big gala. It's for the center for child protection and you raise money. It's like the biggest gala. So I'm actually even doing dance lessons right now. Like I am. I have not done it in 20 years. But it's for a good cause and so I have time to do stuff like that now.

I will make sure I donate.

That's so amazing.

So check it out.

Yes. Thank you.

I can't wait to see you dancing there. You don't want to see. I've only ever danced in one video on the Internet. Total regrets. That's one of my rules actually. As they know, no dancing on the Internet. Cody. So now maybe I got to change it up.

Oh no. I'm going to get you on next season. Going to literally put your name in to be on your social group.

I should have never told you that to give you all my weak points here for it. Thank you so much for coming on today.

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