How AMERICA is SABOTAGING Young People’s Future | Scott Galloway

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Hey and welcome back to those who put in the work. This is the Big Deal podcast and I'm Cody Sanchez. Okay guys, so we just had on one of actually my favorite people on the Internet, Scott Galloway. I didn't tell him that because I didn't want his head to get big, but Scott is fascinating. He's written a billion books. He's got one of my favorite newsletters out there called no Mercy, no Malice. He's a very well known professor. He's also made millions of hundreds of millions, even lost hundreds of millions, and has played this game of wealth incredibly well. But the part that I actually like the best about Scott for all of you is that he's willing to tell the ridiculously hard truths on both sides of the coin and then back it up with a massive amount of data and a pretty giant brain. And he does it in a funny way that it's like hard to not pay attention to. In fact, Scott is so much of a rascal that this is some of the stuff that people have said about him. A walking applause break. Bill Maher. Insufferable numbskull. Elon Musk. Intelligent, thoughtful, sometimes snarky, and often humorous. HuffPost. He has this new book out now called Adrift that I just hammered through before listening to this podcast. I'd already read a bunch of his other books like Algebra of Happiness and the Big four. They're really good. They're really digestible. And also, if you're wondering what the fuck is going on in the US Right now, Adrift is kind of like, let me tell you what's going on in 100 charts. So you've got no excuse even if you don't like to read. Sup, dad? You could definitely read this book.

Book.

Let's just get into it because it's too good. And as I was saying to the guys here on the podcast, my job was super easy because I just kind of go, hey Scott, you like stuff. And then he gives me a dissertation. So without further ado, Scott Galloway. You can find him on all the socials at Scott Galloway or Prof. G and no Mercy, no Malice is the newsletter. Hey guys, sorry to interrupt the pod, but I got to share this quick business tip that I've been thinking about a lot lately. It's Eliminate Automate and delegate, famously from Tim Ferriss. I'm always looking for tools to help me do that. One of those tools is Riverside, the sponsor of today's podcast episode. Riverside allows you to record remote podcasts and video interviews in studio quality from anywhere. Not only can it record 4K video and audio remotely to ensure your podcast quality is top notch, but it's also drastically improved my team's editing speed with the text based editor. Riverside's in platform editor allows you to upload your own content too. So it's not just footage recorded on Riverside that gets the special treatment. It can transcribe your footage, remove silences in one click, and create short clips just by selecting the text. Even better, if you make a flub, which I never do, then it fixes it. I love their AI Magic Clips, which analyzes moments in your podcast that have the most potential to get traction online. That saves hours of listening to your podcast for the fifth time to find the perfect clip. Riverside has you covered. We're always trying to remove complicated things, so don't waste your time doing what Riverside can do for you. I got you guys a deal because if I get a deal, you always get a deal. If you, if you want to try it for yourself, get Riverside in the link in the description and use the code Cody for an exclusive discount. All right, let's get into it. I want to start out with Cassav. I think one of the best TED talks I've ever seen from you recently about stealing from the youth to give to the old in this country. What do you think's happening and how did we get where we are today?

Well, the D in democracy is working a little bit too well. And that is old people have figured out they can vote themselves more money. And people your age don't vote in the same kind of the same volume. So the incumbents will blame it on things like network effects or globalization. But there has been a purposeful transfer of wealth from young to old over the last 40 years. The tax code's gone from 400 pages to 4,000. And those 3,600 pages aren't there to help the young and the middle class. They're to transfer money from people your age to my age. So some specific examples. The largest capital transfer in history happens every year. It's called Social Security. People Your age. There used to be 12 of you for every one retired person. Now there's three. And the wealthiest generation in the history of the planet gets $1.3 trillion a year in the form of Social Security. And I'm not saying we should do away with Social Security, but I don't think, you know, I shouldn't get it. There's just. It should, absolutely. It should be moved back. People are living much longer. It should be means tested. Look at the two biggest tax deductions are mortgage interest rate and capital gains. Who owns homes and makes money selling stocks? People my age. Who rents and makes money with current income? People your age. And then the two things you really need to get ahead are a college education and to build kind of a future and start thinking about a family housing. And if you look at the price of housing, 290 average house before COVID 410 now interest rates. So I think one of the reasons that Taylor Swift is so huge is I think people have given up on saving for a house. I think the reason Airbnb and so many people are traveling is like we can't afford a house. So I see it all culminates in a couple very scary stats. The average 70 year old is 72% wealthier than they were 40 years ago. The average 40 year old is 24%. Under the age of 40 is 24% less wealthy. And for the first time in our Nation's history, a 30 year old man or woman isn't as wealthy as his or her parents were at 30. Which in my opinion is a fundamental breakdown in the compact we have between us and America. And when that happens, it creates so much shame and rage that every opportunistic infection turns into full blown pneumonia. So whether it's me too or the Black Lives Matter or some of the anti Israel protests on campus, I'm not saying those aren't righteous movements with their own, their own momentum, but there's fuel poured on everything because I think young people are just pissed off.

I've never thought about that being sort of a powder keg that ignites these one off instances that it's like anytime you have hyper concentration of wealth in the hands of the few, then the many are kind of constantly on edge. That's really interesting. So is that what you also mean when you say that it's never been easier to be a billionaire, but harder to become a millionaire?

This country, I'll have 300 kids in my class. NYU Stern in each of those classes is a billionaire either through all three.

Wow. Really?

Yeah. But someone will be a billionaire.

Oh, I thought you meant.

Actually, I introduce him to her and I just call them big Beast. No, but there'll be someone will be a billionaire, either through alternative investments, probably a hedge fund, but a small chance one of them will join or start a tech company. I also think probably about 10% of them will end up being supported by their parents. Whereas when I got a school, it was pretty much everyone made a very good living. Some people did really well, but everyone did fairly well. So our economy has definitely become more of a Hunger Games. The genie fish coefficient's gone up. And some people would argue that's a good thing. We believe in winners and losers. But I would argue, and I kind of go to higher ed on this, that when I applied to UCLA, the admissions rate was 76% and I didn't get in. I was one of the 24% that got rejected. And I applied a second time and I got in. This year, it's going to be 9%. And they artificially constrained supply among the elite institutions. And the kind of gestalt in America is that we want to identify a super class of freakishly remarkable kids and then turn them into billionaires, as opposed to trying to let in as many kids as possible and give them a shot of being millionaires. So I think the gestalt has changed a little bit in the US where we're trying. We romanticize these stories of people dropping out of school and becoming billionaires. I can guarantee every parent that 99% of your kids are not in the top 1%. And it feels like we've sort of fallen out of love with the unremarkable kids.

Yeah, I agree. I also find it shocking how big the endowments of the universities are at the same time that we have education costs for universities going up so high and sort of like a declining ROI that kids are getting from universities. What do you think about it? Because you're not quiet about the things that you don't like about universities while also working in one.

Well, my industry is arguably one of the most corrupt, maybe with the exception of social media or I work in a corrupt industry. People under the impression that we're nice people with our Labradors watching PBS every night. And we're noble people. We're like everybody else. Academics and administrators wake up every morning, look in the mirror, and ask themselves the same question, and that is, how do I increase my compensation while reducing my accountability? And we found the ultimate business strategy, and that's to sequester the majority of public from the freshman class and artificially constrain the freshman seat. So Harvard, $54 billion in endowment. It's grown its endowment 4,000% in the last 30 or 40 years, up 40 fold. It's grown its freshman class size 4%. So it admits 1,500 kids on 55,000 applicants. It has the resources. It could let in 15,000 and not sacrifice any quality. But they decide to artificially constrain it because to a certain extent, homeowners and people who already have college degrees have figured out that this LVMH rejectionist exclusionary strategy is the best way to entrench the incumbents. So if I already have a college degree and I already have a house, I love it. When UCLA is impossible to get into, how many people do you say kind of proudly or jokingly say, I would never get into my college if I applied now?

A lot.

Well, that means your daughter's not getting in, and it's not something to be proud of. In addition, once you own a home, you become very concerned with traffic, and you start showing up to the local review board and you try and kill every. Every new housing permit. I bought some land to try and develop in Florida, and a woman showed up at the local review board and said, I don't want them to build there because that's where I walk my dog. I call that trespassing. They. They decided to do a study and delay their approval another three months. So putting housing permits or taking them out of the hands of officials and putting them in the hands of homeowners, you have absolutely no incentive to ever approve housing if you're a homeowner, because an absence of new housing makes your house go up in value. An absence of elite education certification, if you already have, it skyrockets the value of your certification. So all the incentives are to make it more difficult for new entrants versus incumbents. And the ultimate example of this intergenerational theft, if you will, was Covid, and that is a million people dying from a virus would be bad. But what would be tragic is if we missed an opportunity to make my generation much wealthier. So we flushed 6 to $7 trillion into the economy under the auspices that this is a national emergency and people that need it. 85% of it wasn't spent. So 85% was saved, meaning 5 to 6 trillion was just kind of like, let's flush money into the market. So where did it end up? It went into housing, and it went into the Stock market. Stock market touches new highs. Housing touches new highs. Great if you're me and you already own Netflix and you already own a home. Terrible if you're coming into your prime income earning years and want to buy stocks or buy a home. The reason I'm economically secure is that in 2008 we bailed out the banks. We didn't bail out the economy. And Apple, Netflix and Amazon. Just as I was coming into my prime income earning years, as you are now, I was able to buy Amazon, Apple and Netflix at 8, 10 and 12 bucks a share. Those companies are trading at 180, 240 and $750 a share now. But now we don't ever want disruption or churn. When you bail out the baby boomer owner of a restaurant, all you're doing is robbing opportunity from the 26 year old graduate of a culinary academy that wants her shot. So what you get is the credit card bill. The closest you get to the club. I'm in the club doing champagne and cocaine. You get to throw your credit card in, I run it up. The deficit is out of control and it'll be fine while I'm alive. We still have incredible credit worthiness, but by the time you're older, I mean deficit is nothing but a tax on young people. It's a delayed tax, but it just means your interest costs are going to be much higher when you're, when you're my age. So I think almost everything we do is an elegant transfer of wealth from young to old.

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Wow. What do you say to young People listening to this that go, wow, those problems are so big. You know, I'm like, like you said, barely trying to make rent, doing what I can over here. How do I not become a nihilist and only want to destroy things?

Sure. So. Well, the first thing that sounds stupid, but it's vote. I mean, seniors figured it out. They figured out if they vote, they get money. So if young people want to figure out more child tax credits, you know, low interest loans for business, whatever, it might be more opportunities to engage in this economy, first and foremost, they need a vote. Young people do have a lot of agency. There is huge opportunity. I know that you're making money in the mainstream economy if you're willing to work hard. I mean, things are worse for young people than they are for old people now. But the reality is things are less bad here than almost anywhere in the world. Every problem I'm talking about, it's prevalent elsewhere and even worse. So, for example, if you take the poor state Mississippi, the average household income there is still the same or higher than it is in the uk, Germany, South Korea or Japan. So a lot of the anger and anxiety among young people is, is justified. But some of it is your phone reminding you that if you don't have a hot boyfriend and you're not vacationing at the Hotel Du Cap like all your friends seem to be doing on a Gulf Stream, that somehow you're failing. So there's all this wealth porn trying to make you feel bad about your state in life. I do think there's. If you're hardworking, understand technology, there's still a lot of opportunity, but there's just no getting around it. We're going to need new policies. Look, I've been pretty open about my politics. I've endorsed publicly Harris for president. Her economic plan would be, would increase the deficit by a third. Trump's economic plan would blow the deficit or be triple the deficit addition. That's just, that is essentially a tax on young people. So I'm kind of a one policy voter at this point. I think young people need more money. And this notion that, well, it's just a giveaway, well, we give away money all the goddamn time. Corporations are paying the lowest tax rate since 1938. The super rich, not the near rich, but the super rich. The wealthiest 25Americans pay an average tax rate of 6, 8%. So I think we need an alternative minimum tax. I think we need higher corporate taxes. And I like what Portugal proposed, you know, Maguire run for president. Portugal just gave, just passed A tax holiday. Everyone between the ages of 20 and 30 pays no taxes because they found that their younger generation was anxious, depressed, and also, quite frankly, leaving. I think we need something like that. I think we need sort of a Marshall Plan to level up young people. Because what we're seeing. What we're seeing is that 40 years ago, 60% of people aged 30 to 34 had at least one child. Now it's 27%. People are literally kind of opting out. And opting out is, I don't want to bring kids into this world. And I don't think it's because they don't want kids. I think it's because they can't afford them. So what's the point of all of this? If your kids are anxious, depressed, obese, and don't want to have children? What is the point of all this? And is it to create a class of. It's this lottery economy where let's just try and create as many billionaires as possible, even if it comes at the expense of young people or people who are just trying to be millionaires. So I think, quite frankly, I just think we're all fucked up. I don't think we've got our priorities straight. Once you're above two or three million dollars a year in income, you're not going to get any happier. So why I'm turning into. You know, this sounds very populous, but why wouldn't we have a very progressive tax structure at the highest levels instead of a tax code that massively declines once you get really wealthy? And the myth in our tax code is that the rich don't pay taxes. Actually, the workhorses pay their disproportionate share. The bottom 50% pay almost no federal income tax, and the top 2% pay about 90% of the taxes. But there's some nuance there, and that is. I call them the workhorses. Mom's a baller. She's a partner at Skad and Arbs. M&A transactions makes 2 million a year. Dad is a chiropractor and he has two clinics. He clears 600,000, 2.6 million a year. Right? That is a crazy amount of money. They probably need to live in a city in a blue state to have those types of jobs, which means at that income level, they're probably paying 48 to 52% in taxes. So when you say the rich need to pay more taxes and they think, well, I'm the rich, they're like, well, boss, I'm kind of working for the Government at this point, I don't need to pay any more taxes. Once you make the jump to lightspeed and you can have the privilege I have where I basically buy and sell assets to make a living. I start companies, I sell them, I peace out to Florida because I have that kind of mobility. My average tax rate the last 10 years has been 17%. So when I was your age, making a lot of money, but it was all current income, I was paying 40 to 50%. Once I started making a shit ton of money, my tax rate plummeted. So it's the plummet part I don't understand and I don't see any reason why you're not going to lose any happiness if you took taxes, say alternative minimum taxes to 50% from 17 for someone like me, I'm not going to lose any happiness. Whereas if you can give someone a child tax credit, take them from 45 to $55,000, that changes everything in that household. So I think our tax policy, our fiscal policy, I think it's all designed to shove wealth from young to old.

Yeah, it's interesting. I think the other part that I find fascinating is the institutional incentives that say big finance companies have. So for instance, today if you have blackrock, Blackstone, some of the really large companies out there buying a bunch of single family homes, well, they have so much of, they have so much money, so much of our money really from us investing in funds and ETFs, et cetera, that not only can they pay more, but they also have the institutional benefit of having great credit with all the money we have on hand and thus like a half to one third the interest rate. So I think some of the reason why things have become so expensive are not just they're actually, you know, I don't agree with you on all the tax policies perfectly. But I do think it seems wrong that somebody could use my dollars to have a lower interest rate to pay more for our houses and then bundle them again. We also saw during 2008 that mass bundling of the American dream of homeownership can be problematic as well. So that is another one that I worry about. What do you think though, about the people who might say, hey, I actually want to pay my fair share in taxes because like you said, where else is there better to pay taxes in America? But they're concerned about things like trains that go to nowhere in California and government that can't do much with our tax dollars.

I don't think, look, do we need to cut? Do we need to increase tax rates or cut spending. The answer is yes. If America was a household, America's making 50,000, that household's making 50,000 and it's spending 70 and it has 330,000 in debt. That's just not sustainable. And every day we get new credit card offers to keep rolling and paying. Continuing to spend 70,000, not 50,000 in debt. We get 7 trillion in spending, 5 trillion in tax receipts. You just can't manage a household responsibly. At some point the Chinese or whoever aren't going to show up for one of our treasury auctions and interest rates are going to skyrocket and you're going to have, you know, shit's going to get real pretty fast. So I just don't think there's any getting around it. I like states like Florida and Texas that have no states. I like when states compete and I think ultimately competition is probably going to bring down sort of this out of control spending in some of the blue states because they're just people are leaving. I think it's good to have intrastate competition. Government. When an economy goes above sort of 30, 32% of spending is the government, it just becomes very inefficient. Two thirds of employment in Argentina is civic, is government employees. It's just not. There's no productivity, there's no incentive there. So I would love it if someone had an adult conversation and came in and said, we've got to cut Social Security spending by 10 or 20%. We're going to have to cut, you know, 40% of all spending right now. Government spending goes to seniors. It's about to be 50%, which lowers the amount of money we can invest in technology, R and D and education, which have a much bigger payoff. I think we're going to have to massively cut social services. Entitlements. It all leads to entitlements. You know, we're going to have to look at everything and we're going to have to raise taxes because the far left and the far right, as far as I can tell, come together and agree on two topics. They agree on reckless spending. Right. I want more services, more social spending. You want more military and lower taxes. I know, let's do it all. And we'll just keep racking up the deficit because young people haven't done the math and we still can continue to borrow. Our credit card hasn't been shut off. It's irresponsible. It's mortgaging our future. So I'm with you. No one wants to have that conversation. The third biggest issue among people your age in the election is the deficit. And it never gets mentioned among our politicians. It's just, I mean, the. Right. There's a myth that Republicans are more fiscally responsible. They love deficits as much as we do, as much as Democrats do. So I'm with you. I would love to see. All right, we have $2 trillion in deficit. You can have a small deficit, 2,400 billion, as long as you're growing the economy. So that's 1.6 trillion. All right, come up with 800 billion in tax cuts or in spending cuts, and the other side will agree to 800 billion and increase taxes.

But that sounds way too reasonable.

There needs to be a grownup in the room at some point here. It's gone on way too long. And because the deficit really hasn't popped up, I mean, we're now this year going to spend more money on interest on the debt than we spend on our military. That at some point it's gonna become. Begin crowding out almost everything. So, yeah, I'd like to think we're ready for an adult conversation. It hasn't happened yet.

Fingers crossed. So if, you know, if we're sitting out there right now and you're talking to a young person and they're about to slit their wrists, they see no light at the end of the tunnel. What do you tell a young person today? Like, what is the actionable thing that you can go do? Now, Scott, having seen so many different moves in markets, what are some words of wisdom you'd have if they want to make money?

Okay, I just. Well, I just start. I just wrote a book on creating economic security. And I do think there's a formula. The first is focus. And that is find something. Find something you're good at. People say to follow your passion. I think that's bullshit. Anyone who tells you to follow your passion is already rich. And the guy telling you to follow your passion made his billions in iron ore smelting. Right? Be a DJ on weekends, play in a soccer league. You know, design jewelry with your friends. Open a restaurant when you're already rich. The vanity industries are really difficult because there's 180,000 people in Sag Aftra. These are incredibly. It's not easy to get a union card. That's the union representing actors and stage workers or producers. 83% of them last year didn't qualify for health insurance because they didn't make $23,000. So acting might be your passion, but unless you're in the top 1% and you're getting bright blinking green signals that you're in the top 1%. Go find something else. And I don't want to crush your dreams. Just have a sober conversation around what's required to make a living in that industry. So find something you're good at. And the key part of that is find something you're good at in a non romantic industry. The guy who has this studio, I've been here twice this week. This isn't that romantic. He found some shitty loft space on Avenue B and rents it out to podcasters and is probably making really good money. That is not. He didn't dream of that when he was 9. I know. I'm going to install sound insulation on a loft in a mediocre area in Manhattan and rent it out to podcasters. I don't think he was dreaming that when he was nine. But this is a good business now.

I just opened two more.

There you go. This is a Find something you're good at and think I could become great. And by the way, if you don't know, a 20. When I was 17, I thought I was going to be a quarterback. When I was 19, I thought I was going to be a pediatrician. When I was 22, I thought I was going to be an investment banker. I got a job with an investment bank. I ended up in business intelligence and analytics. I didn't even know what that meant until I was 25 or 26. So try and find some. Your job in your 20s is to workshop and find something you're good at and maybe could be in the top 10 or the top 1% and forgive yourself if it doesn't involve college. Because 2/3 of kids don't end up in college. And there's this industrial shaming complex. I've been at these parties. Did you hear, you know, Max dropped out of Rutgers? And it's like, oh, shame, shame. You know, the parents have fucked up, the kid is a failure. Two thirds of our kids do not end up with a college degree. Workshop stuff. Find something you could be good at. Maybe great, it might be being a tax accountant. Okay, do you understand? Are you willing to go to college? Are you willing to get a cpa? Do you understand numbers? Do you understand the tax code? Are you good with clients? Because if you can become in the top 10% or the top 1% of tax lawyers, those people get to fly private and have a broader selection set of mates than they deserve, which makes them really passionate about the tax Law. I am so passionate about analytics because it gave me the ability to take care of my kids, take care of my dad, have crazy, outrageous vacations, and remove stress from my key relationships. Passion comes from artistry, mastery, and economic security. So whatever that thing is that gives you the ability to make some good money that you're good at, maybe even great at in an industry that's not sexy, you're going to be compassionate about it. I'm building a home right now in London, and there's the soapstone guy or the marble guy. And he's this Iraqi immigrant, and everybody knows him. He can tell you everything about the veining and the marble. And I was very open with him, and he's been open with me. He makes 2.1 million pounds, top line. He has a marble company. He clears about 800,000.

That's pretty good margins.

Yeah. He's a guy in his 40s. He's been in marble since he was 28. And he's passionate about marble and soapstone because it affords him a really nice life. And he's great at it. And he gets a lot of camaraderie. He gets a lot of prestige, relevance, you know, pride, ability to take care, you know, to be economically secure. So the first thing is focus. Second thing is, I call it stoicism. But the one thing that's in your control is spending. You got to develop a savings muscle when you're young and see if you can get alignment with your roommates or your romantic partner and gamify saving money even you got to figure out you got to have a savings muscle that you can flex. When I was a junior in ucla, I wasn't going back for my senior year unless I saved $3,000. Through the summer, I had 11 weeks to save $3,000, earn and save. So everyone in the fraternity knew who the four kids were who didn't have money. I went to ucla. I was in a fraternity with mostly Jewish kids in the Valley. They all had money. There were four of us that everybody knew were broke. Like our parents weren't helping us. We moved in together in a room in the house, and we had a whiteboard, and we gamified spending. I spent $78 a week, including rent and food. For 12 weeks. I ate top ramen, bananas and milk. My big treat is every Sunday night, I'd go to Sizzler, ask your parents, and for $4.99, I was on the crew team. The entire crew team would go, and we would go there at 3pm when it opened and we'd stay till 8pm and we would just eat several million calories and it was fun. I mean, would I rather have had more money? Yeah. But the ability to gamify and especially with a partner, save money and start investing. If you're young, you gotta figure out that savings muscle and it's getting reward from other things, getting reward from fitness, from friends. The nice thing about being young is you don't need as much money to have fun. There's this Instagram generation that thinks you gotta have a Birkin bag or go take go to Coachella. Have fun. When you're in your 20s, pretty much like beer and making out is a pretty good brat. There's a lot of cheap shit out there available for 20 somethings.

Plus you can't really do it after you're married.

Yeah, then it gets much harder. Or actually it doesn't get harder.

It stays in Austin Poly though. Pretty big.

It doesn't get harder, it gets much more expensive. It's true anyways. I call it stoicism. But getting a savings muscle. The third is time. For the majority of our time on this planet, we haven't lived past 35. So young people just cannot imagine they're going to live to be 100. And most of them are. And they also can't calibrate how fast time is going to go. Wow, my life has gone really Slowly. Said no one ever. If you, from the age of 22, just figure out a way to get 2, 3, 5% of your income out of your hands, don't even. 99% of us will spend everything that comes into our hands. You have the brightest people in the world with a godlike technology hitting you at the exact right moment. A chance to upgrade from economy to economy. Comfort to add flourless chocolate cake with your panini. Whatever it is. Right. Telling you, you deserve this. It's worth it. Oh, there's two people looking at this hotel room. You better. There's only one left. Buy now. Find a forced savings mechanism. 2 to 5% in your 20s. When you're my age, you're going to be fine. You don't start until your 30s. That's fine. But it's going to need to be 5 to 10%. It's going to be closer to 15 to 20 when you're in your 40s. But you're going to live longer than you think time is going to go fast. Well, I'm only going to get 9% in the markets. Well, okay, that means in 24 years it's going to be up Eightfold. So the power of compound interest and time. And then the final thing where I really screwed up was the power of diversification. And that is I've always made a lot of money, right? I came out of the gates hot, started e commerce companies and I was raised in the or came of professional age where you were told be in it, to win it, go deeper, go deeper. And my company was about to go public and I was that guy that borrowed money against his stocks to buy more stock. So when 2000 hit, I went from being from looking at jets, no joke, to broke. Clawed my way back. 2008, all my money was in tech again. Boom, broke again. And that was about the time my first son came along, which was really upsetting. But diversification is your Kevlar, and that is. Two weeks ago I found out I made one of my biggest. I invested $5 million in a text based healthcare company, tier 1 VCs, baller, CEO, best investors had to elbow my way to get in. That's a big investment for me. It went out of business last week. That's a zero for me. But I don't invest more than 3 or 4% of my net worth in any one thing. So it ruined my hour, but it didn't even ruin my day and it certainly didn't ruin my week. Diversification is your Kevlar. The moment you have anything resembling an asset base, you want to try and take pieces of it and put it in stuff that is uncorrelated as possible. I'm about to invest in an aircraft maintenance company in El Salvador. I just want anything that's away from my tech world. I now appreciate diversification because once you have an asset base, the way you get rich is probably through a little bit of concentration. Your own business, you double down on a house, you fix it up, you flip it, whatever it might be. But the way you stay somewhat rich is through diversification. And I didn't realize that. I was always reading these stories about Steve Ballmer borrowing stock, Fred Smith doubling down on FedEx, Mark Zuckerberg never selling a share. No. Diversify, because here's the thing, the market will always trump individual performance. No matter how good you are. If you're in tech in 2000, you're going to get hurt. Amazon lost 90% of its value from 99 to 2001. And then also a little bit of forgiveness. Recognize that when your stocks go down. Recognize when you have a business fail that most of it is not your fault. And at the same time when you kill it and you buy stock and it doubles and you were smart enough or lucky, you weren't smart enough to buy Nvidia three years ago. You were lucky enough. You are never more prone to a big mistake than after a big win. Bring in your horns. So I wish I'd learned diversification. I didn't save money in my 20s and 30s. My first feeling when my son came marching out of my girlfriend, it was supposed to be bright lights and angels singing. I felt so nauseous and I thought, well, okay. In addition to childbirth being gross, which I think it is, I felt incredible shame because I was sitting there at 40 years old, I'd made so much fucking money and I was broke because I wasn't smart enough to diversify, because I thought, I'm such a baller that my company is going to be worth a billion dollars, so I'm going to keep doubling down. So my first sentiment when I saw my son was, I failed this kid. And I want to help young people realize I don't want anyone to ever feel that way. And you don't need to be a billionaire. Just start saving some money. Real estate's a great for savings. Figure out a way to get it out of your hands. Keep saving. And just in case you don't go double platinum or have a podcast that's number one, or have a movie or buy Nvidia, you don't need it, I can get you rich. That's the good news. The bad news is the answer is slowly. So what I would tell young people is even if you don't end up in an amazing job, if you start early and you follow this pattern, you're going to be economically fine.

This episode is brought to you by Netflix from the creator of Homeland.

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The new Netflix series the Beast, and me as ruthless rivals whose shared darkness will set them on a collision course with fatal consequences. The Beast in Me is a riveting, psychological cat and mouse story about guilt, justice and doubt. You will not want to miss this. The Beast in Me is now playing only on Netflix. So you're about to make a trade based on a friend's text, but which you do you listen to is it we could buy a house in Tulum, get optioning those options, we could lose everything. Or let's do a little research, get your head in the trade and make the investment decision that's right for you. Learn more@finra.org TradeSmart that's such a good point. You Know, I think there's a lot of porn these days about, you know, sleeping on floors, sleeping on couches, and that that's the only way to make it too. And that if you want to be successful, you have to go all in on your business. And I don't know about you, but I never wanted to do that. I never wanted to sleep on the floor if I didn't have to. Yeah, I didn't want to have to sacrifice everything early on. I wanted to work really, really, really hard. But I think in finance we get lucky because we learn that, you know, from an early age. And for most young people today, if they watch anybody who's had success, they go, well, they went all in. And it goes back to your point. I don't think I'm a top 1 percenter. Like, I think we should all have a little bit more humility, assume you're going to fail more and then you won't. And then I always giggle. Like when people say they want to be a dj, you go, you know how to become a dj? Become the CEO of Goldman Sachs.

It's more likely DJ Soul.

Yeah. And you buy your way onto the stage. You know who else buys their way onto the stage? Paris Hilton. Shaq. How does Shaq make his money? Fucking chicken stores now and car washes, which I love as well. So I think you're right.

Well, I went to the US Open and I thought, okay, I'd rather be Nadal or Federer, the number three or number four ranked tennis player. I'd rather be because I get to go to the US Open and sit in great seats and I'm not stressed and throwing up in the, you know, I'd rather be the number one or number two player in the world. I just was. I coach a lot of young men and I had this kid, he got into mit, but he had a chance to play basketball. He's played basketball his whole life at what I call a pretty mediocre school. Like, boss, go to MIT and buy a fucking basketball team in 20 years. What are you thinking? Sports is a terrible business. You know, if you do the math on what's required to become a basketball player, it is much easier to win the lottery. It's just crazy. So you need to have. What I tell young people is you can have it all. You just can't have it all at once. And you need to have a sober conversation around the trade offs. And a lot of times what people don't take into account is, you know, you can control your spending and there's nothing wrong with cutting your spending and saying, I'm not going to live to work, I'm going to work to live. Well, fine, but you're going to need to lower your cost of living. And there's nothing wrong with moving to St. Louis. And dual incomes make 80 or 100 grand. You can get a home for that. Have a really nice life. But be clear, if you expect to live in New York and you expect to have. I survey my kids. When I say my kids, I mean my students, 70 to 80% of them expect to be in the top 1% of income earners by the time they're 35.

Do they realize it's the top 1%?

Well, no, because I think the top 1% income now is like 700 grand. They don't think of that as that much money. I mean, the average compensation at NYU Stern is 212,000 first years. They think, okay, within seven, eight years I should be making six or seven hundred thousand dollars. And a lot of them will. But if you expect to be in the top 1% and maintain a lifestyle in New York or LA or one of the super cities, you're gonna have to work pretty hard. You're gonna have to. You know, I had some fun growing up, but I don't. I always say that from the age of kind of 25 to 45, I didn't really do anything but work. And it comes at a real price. I lost, I would say I lost my hair, I lost my marriage. And it was worth it.

Yeah. It's interesting. I do think you either get to choose short term or long term. Pain.

That's right.

And I wish somebody had told me that earlier. Like these days I never like to, when, you know, when they play those videos, like the reaction videos of the girl crying because life's hard and they make fun of her. And that never really sits that well with me because I think it's because we kind of fail them. We didn't tell them it's going to be awful. Your first job is not supposed to kill you from how hard it is. It's supposed to kill you from the pure monotony of like, awful labor. First job finance. My first. Yeah. And so, yeah, 80 hour weeks, taking all that, you know, series seven, 24, 63, all that jazz. And I was the dumbest and the, you know, the, the least qualified and didn't have any fancy, you know, friends or family. And so. But it was also awesome because I learned massive pain tolerance.

Really, It's a great Training.

Yeah. And I think that's probably what we should tell them instead. That your first job's gonna suck, but eventually it'll be worth it.

Well, what I would say is that, you know, almost, it's like rearing children. It gets better. We were told a lie, that it's gonna be great. At least for me. I think babies are awful. I couldn't stand the first two years. I thought it was just torture. I thought my job was just to make sure this thing didn't get near a body of water and keep it alive. And I didn't find that. That rewarding.

Do things make you happy, though? You seem to have, like, a steady state of unhappiness.

Here's the good news. I hate my life less and less every day. But what I say about kids is 2 to 5, it gets kind of fun. And then 5 to 15 is amazing. And then you kind of lose them again. I'm going through that right now, but.

What's your oldest?

17.

Okay, so you haven't seen the other side yet?

Yeah, no, I.

Maybe. That's good.

I'm waiting for that. We'll see.

Okay.

We'll see. It's hard to believe it when they, like, don't, you know, they don't call them and they don't. It's like that Tina Fey thing where you have a crush on somebody. My son was in town doing his college tour and I'm like, would you like to grab coffee? I mean, you're probably busy, but. And I'm busy, but if you're free, I could find time. But you probably don't want to. I mean, it's just. You'll never find people less impressed with you than your teenagers. But anyways, look, everything's a trade off. You just have to decide what you want to trade off and when and how much. And I get it. I'm not going to tell kids to give up their 20s, have some fun, spend some money, try and find a little bit of money to put away. And also just recognize your first job, even if you don't like it. You know, give it a couple years, give it two or three years to see if it gets better. But also recognize you may not end up in your dream job right out of college. Few of us do. But that's a learning. I went into investment banking. I worked at Morgan Stanley. I hated it. They hated me. I was terrible at it.

Totally.

And that was a learning. But it was really good training because it gave me attention to detail. It gave me kind of the ability to suffer a little bit. It taught me a little bit about working in a large organization. It also told me I don't have the skills to be in a big company. I'm too insecure. Anytime people went into a conference room, I would think they were talking about me. I didn't have patience or maturity. If I met someone senior to me that I think was as smart as me, I'd get angry that they were making more. I mean, I just was too immature to handle a big company. And people romanticize entrepreneurship. I went into entrepreneurship out of defense mechanism. I mean, I'm just not going to be successful. I met my stallmate from Morgan Stanley who's been in investment banking for 30 years now. We're both very transparent about our wealth. We ended up in almost the same spot economically. He's endured much less stress than me. If you have access to corporate America, the US Corporation is the greatest wealth creator in history. The reality is most of us don't have the skills. We don't have the patience. It's not easy to get up and put on a tie. It's not easy to go to corporate events and pretend to like the boss's husband. This shit is not easy.

It's awful.

And be thoughtful and be patient. And occasionally you're going to suffer injustice. People less intelligent and less hardworking are going to get promoted. There's injustice everywhere. But if you can endure those injustices, typically over time, the American corporation is a great way to get wealthy slowly. And the majority of entrepreneurs, I think, do it out of. I mean, the majority of entrepreneurs are immigrants. They can't go to work for Google. They didn't get to go to work for Dartmouth. So when kids come to my office hours, they think, they say, oh, I have an offer from JP Morgan. But I think of starting my own business. They think I'm going to break into song and say, go for the small business. I'm like, fuck that. J.P. morgan, here you come.

Well, it's true. I mean, I was at Goldman. Like, I was a shitty little peon analyst back in the day for two years. And I hated my life for all two years of it. And to this day, you know, whatever, 12, 13 years later, it's still like, Cody Sanchez. Yeah, she's on these businesses. She's got this online thing. She also worked at Goldman Sachs. I'm like that huge credibility, huge credibility. And I hear they spend like about $100,000 a year training new members. So that's probably the cheapest university you can get is a great training is a corporate mba.

Basically great, incredibly smart peers. The way I describe it is like, it's like having served in the Marines. You're really glad you did it. Past tense. But I've started a bunch of business. But what did I roll out first? That I was a Morgan Stanley.

Yeah.

Because we all are proud of our brands and the institutions. But anyone who right out of college can go get a graduate degree called US Corporation, I would say do it. You might be good at it. And if not, it's going to help you zero on what you're good at. And they do these crazy things called health insurance and retirement plans and training. First thing they did was they sent me to Columbia for this mini mba.

Yeah, I got my MBA at Georgetown through State Street.

There you go.

So same thing. I mean it would have cost me $160,000 is what the executive program at Georgetown cost.

That's crazy.

It's crazy. And I mean I had a hell of a time, but I think the most valuable thing I've ever done was work in corporations and start a business, not my mba.

I think that's. Yeah. Like everyone has a path. I describe business school for the elite and the aimless. You're good at what you do. You're smart, you want to make money, you're disciplined, but you have no idea what you want to do. We all try to sound very focused in our business school applications. But if you were really good and knew what you wanted to do, you don't need a graduate degree. You just go do it. Unless it's you want to be a lawyer or a doctor.

That's a great point.

Business schools for those of us who were trying to figure it out, career switches. Like all the investment bankers wanted to be consultants because we didn't want to give up the money. We just knew we hated investment banking. All the consultants wanted to be investment bankers. You would think we'd get together and be like, hey, it sucks over here. But it is a great way to figure out sort of what you'll like more and also get a great credential. For the first time. Business school is not a no brainer. When I applied, it was a no brainer. Tuition was $2,000 a year. Yeah. My total tuition at UCLA and Berkeley as an in state student was $7,000 for seven years. Total tuition and 76% admissions rate. At UCLA, I graduated with a 2.27 GPA. True story. And Berkeley let me into graduate school. Things have changed dramatically and I'm Now a good citizen, I pay a lot of taxes, I give a lot of money back to those alma maters. So I would argue their really slack admission standards was the right way to go.

Fascinating. What do you think about, you know, one of the other things that seems to me leads to success long term if people actually want to quote, unquote, win monetarily is like a massive ability to handle failure. You, you, I think are really interesting because you're very, you know, you're not quiet about your opinions.

Right.

If they don't turn out to be right, you go, well, here's my thought process. That seemed reasonable. It worked or it didn't. But I'm gonna at least say the quiet part out loud and we can see how I tracked one way or the other. How did you get comfortable being wrong publicly and getting over it?

Being wrong a lot?

I don't think you're wrong a lot, by the way.

I'm wrong often. I get a lot of strength from my atheism.

That's fascinating. Why you just don't think anything matters.

To a certain extent. And that is, I'm convinced that at some point I'm going to look into my kids eyes and know our relationship is coming to an end. And it's going so fast. And everyone who I'm worried about their opinion or being shamed by, they're going to be dead really soon. And so am I. So I think a recognition of the finite nature of life and your insignificance gives you a little bit more courage to try and squeeze as much juice out of this lemon as physically possible. And I do try to live out loud. And when I screw up, I try to forgive myself. Because when someone else publicly fails when they say something stupid or they have a business fail, most people will never be entrepreneurs because they don't want to risk public failure. It's humiliating.

That's my biggest fear.

Most guys, especially nowadays, don't approach a woman they're attracted to because they're worried about rejection. And what you realize or what I realized, and it's been. My superpower is my ability to move through failure. My superpower is rejection. I ran for sophomore, junior and senior class president in high school. I lost all three elections. And based on my track record, I decided to run for student body president where I went on to wait for it, lose. I've started nine companies. Four failed, three are kind of a. Three are kind of a tie. Got the money back and two were hits. All you need is one. One out of seven. Businesses succeeds. So I started nine. And my superpower was when I had a business fail or when I was divorced or when I lost my mom, I knew how to mourn and I knew how to move on. And the only thing I can guarantee anyone is you're going to have a certain amount of tragedy and a certain amount of joy in your life. The ratio of those things, some of it's out of your control where and when you're born, a lot of luck, health of your loved ones. But the thing that's in your control is your ability to move through that failure. And I've been beamed. I've been shot in the face professionally and personally. And I was always able to say, okay, my business failed. Learned a lot. I'm gonna go raise more money and start a new business.

What does that look like right after you lose an election or you fail in a business, what do you do? Do you sit with like a whiskey?

No, I, you know, it's. I think it's different for everybody. What I would suggest is everyone needs to find things that make them feel good about themselves.

What do you do?

Well, I have. So this isn't going to come as a surprise to you. I struggle with anger and depression. I'm very cognizant of it. And I have a series of kind of activities to try. And when I feel like I'm going dark. What's weird is failure or adversity doesn't send me into a depression. Other things do. So I think it's probably more chemical with me. But everyone needs to figure out, how do I maintain a sense of enthusiasm. I have so many really successful friends. Came out of Ivy league school, started hedge funds, got to a billion under management. We're making 2, 3, 10 million bucks a year. And then the market goes south on them. There's a bunch of redemptions. Their fund closes down and for the next five to ten years they're like stuck. They can't get past the failure. And it's not hitting a home run. It's your ability to just get to the plate as many times because at some point you're going to connect. So my. My cognitive behavior or tricks for trying to bust out of a depression. When I feel myself going dark, I have an acronym scaffold. The first thing I do is I sweat. Exercising resets everything for me. It's like pressing the reset buttons.

Yeah, you're fit.

Well, I'm trying. I'm holding on to every last vestige of my youth. C clean. I try and eat at home, Not a lot of butter or salt, which I find is really helpful. Abstinence in the sense that I love alcohol and I love thc. I'm a better version of me, a little bit fucked up. I love being high. I love marijuana. I love alcohol. I'm really good at both of those things. And I think I'm like most people. They're an enhancement to my life, and I know how to control them mostly. But when I'm feeling depressed, I just take them out of my life. Whatever's happening to those sensors in my brain, I just don't want to fuck with them. F is for family. My kids are so awful that they force me to take myself out of my own head and stop focusing on my own shit. If I can be around my boys, I know that they will come up with reasons why I need to focus on them. That's actually quite healthy. And the A is affection. I will tell my kids jokingly, I'm not feeling good. And they know that means we watch tv. They'll throw their legs on mine. I let my dogs on the couch. Physical mammal touch. I think it's very restorative to me. So whenever I feel myself going dark, and the way I feel myself going dark is I start just getting pissed off at everyone and everything, and I start feeling really down on myself. I get quiet, I go withdrawn and have trouble sleeping. And I'm like. But I've gotten to a point where I recognize it and I can snap out of it. But your ability to move through failure, your ability to endure it. You want to punch above your weight class professionally or romantically. Get used to rejection. Most people aren't willing to endure rejection.

You stop caring about it after a while. I think you kind of like, inculcate yourself against it.

I've had disasters professionally. I've had a company go chapter 11. I've had stocks 18 months after I invested go to zero. And I can get through it. I don't mind it. I've been single. I can't tell you the amount of rejection I've endured from women. And that's the reason I'm with somebody who's much higher character and much hotter than me, is all the women who reject. I was fine. I could get past it. I could get past it. I wasn't scared of approaching people to ask for money, to ask them to come to work for me, to ask them to be my clients, to ask them to go on a date with me. That is the key to my success is an abundance of rejection.

This is slightly inappropriate question, but have you ever tried psychedelics? And that doesn't make you less of an atheist ever. Like, have you done where you do the whole thing and you put on the eye mask and you lay down and you see the spirit world?

I did Austin, actually.

The tracks.

Yeah, I just did a massive hit of ketamine. That's the only time I've ever really done psychedelics other than Mushroom Chocolate. I loved it. It was a ton of fun. I learned a lot about yourself. Just intentional about. I went in. Very intentional. What is my purpose? What is my purpose? But no, I'm pretty convinced that whole death thing is going to be just a wonderful long sleep. I don't. And by the way, I want to acknowledge that as an atheist, our belief that kind of the world was nothing, and then it exploded. That's pretty ridiculous, too. I don't want to in any way try and foo foo religion or faith. I think it's a tremendous source of comfort for people. I've always enjoyed going to church and temple. I like the community. But, no, I don't have an invisible friend. And I think at some point this is. I don't think this is a dress rehearsal. I think this is my first and last act.

There's something beautiful about that, though. I always loved that Emma Bombeck quote where she says, when I stand before God at the end of my days, I hope I can say to him that I have not one drop left. I use everything he gave me. And I think she was an atheist, so it's funny that she used God in the quote, but I think that's kind of what she meant. She's, like, just leaving it on the line, like, whatever's left.

Yeah, leave it on the field. Who is the great. Was it a Mexican artist? Frida Moreno. The one with the unibrow.

Oh, Frida Kahlo.

Frida Kahlo. She had this great quote, said, I want my exit to be glorious and I don't want to come back.

Oh, that's on brand for you.

There you go.

I like that one. So you don't. Yeah, that's right.

Yeah.

Okay. I could see that on one of your next thumbnails for one of your podcasts. Okay. I want to talk a little bit about. I want to talk slightly about young men today because I think increasingly you're talking to them in particular in a way that's not so hard, bro. You got to do X, Y, and Z. It's, like, sophisticated, which I think speaks to a Lot of this generation. Yeah. What's the deal with young men doing more video games and opting out and not asking women, you know, to go out on dates? What are we doing and how do you get around that as a young man?

Well, first let's look at the numbers. There's no group globally that's ascended faster than women. There are more women globally seeking tertiary education than men. And when you look at there's probably 40 or 50 nations that don't allow women to seek tertiary education. Actually, I don't know if that's true.

Does tertiary mean university? Yeah.

Higher education. College and graduate education. More women are in graduate school now, higher education globally than men. That's a wonderful thing. In the last 30 years, the number of women elected to some form of parliament or electoral body has doubled. Women are killing it. And by the way, I don't think there's anything we should do to get in the way of that. Single women own more homes than single men. Women under the age of 30 in urban centers are making more money than men. In the next five years, there's going to be three female college grads. For every two male college grads, two out of three women under the age of 30 has a boyfriend. One out of three men under the age of 30 has a girlfriend. Why? Because women are dating older. Why are they dating older? We are producing way too few economically and emotionally viable men. And there's a variety of reasons. There's straight biology, men's prefrontal cortex is about 18 months behind. When you applied to college, when there was another senior from your high school was a male, you were basically applying, you were competing against a junior. We're less mature. Boys mature later, they catch up at about 25, but at 18, they're basically a 16 and a half year old girl. Education is highly biased against boys. If you think about the behavior we want in school, it's sit still, be organized, be a pleaser, raise your hand. You're describing a girl. Schools that are just boys only end up with twice the amount of recess time because boys are like dogs. They need to be tired, they need to be kind of worn out. In addition, there's some societal factors that have been especially rough on boys. We have the second most single parent homes in the world. And if you reverse engineer where a boy comes off the tracks, it's when he loses a male role model. And what's interesting in the studies is that girls in single parent homes have the same outcomes. Same college attendance, same rates of depression, same all the studies show that while physically stronger, boys are emotionally and mentally much weaker. So they're not going to college, they're not mating, they're not dating. Half of millennial men say they are no longer dating. They're no longer even trying.

This is like the incel movement.

They're much more prone. Online dating, it used to be family, friends, and school how you met people. Now it's 70% online. And we don't like to talk about this because we like to sort of assume that every problem men facing is kind of their own fault and that any problem facing women, it's because they're victimized. And if you look at online dating, basically, most women want the same guy. And that is, if you have 50 men on Tinder, 50 women, 46 of the women will show all of their attention to just four men. They all want the same dude. And so that leaves 46 men vying for the attention of four women. So a man of average attractiveness on Tinder has to swipe right 200 times to get one match. So that's one coffee. And then four of the five coffees will ghost him because their filter kicks in again. So a man of average attractiveness has to swipe right a thousand times to get one coffee. So he gets what he feels is validation of his lack of worth in the mating market. They're much more prone to addiction. They're much more prone to conspiracy theory. They're much less likely to leave home. So what you have is an entire generation of men without male role models who are more prone to addiction and who start engaging. They become much more prone to misogynistic content. They start blaming women. They become more nationalistic. They start blaming immigrants. They stop believing in climate change. And some they become really shitty citizens. And the ripple effect it's having is the mating market. And that is three quarters of women say economic viability is key in a mate. It's only one in four men. We don't care. Men are disproportionately evaluated on their economic well being. Women disproportionately evaluated on their aesthetics. But when the pool men made horizontally and down socioeconomically, women horizontally and up. But when the pool of horizontal and up of men is shrinking every year, there's just less household formation and there's more loneliness. And if you talk to. If you talk to couples that have been married longer than 30 years, three quarters will say one was much more interested in the other in the beginning. And it was always the man was much more interested because the downside of sex is so much greater for women than men. Men are much less choosy. Men feel like their obligation is to spread their seed to the four corners of the earth. Women's obligation is to be as filtered as possible, as selective as possible about inbound opportunities and pick the strongest, smartest and fastest seed. So what you have is men, essentially. Women are much choosier than men. And women, when they're not going to church, not going to softball league, not going into work, men have very few venues to demonstrate excellence. What you find with these couples is the woman says, I wasn't interested in him, but then I found out he's really kind. I liked his hands, I liked the way he smelled. I saw him present to a client. I started getting attracted to him. He made me laugh. How do you demonstrate excellence as a man when there's no venues where you're around other people for extended periods of time doing something different? You know, I was just in Israel at the Nova Music Festival Memorial and I met this battalion of IDF soldiers. 90 men, 90 women, all outside, all fit, all meeting each other. They're finding mentors, they're finding business partners, co founders, they're finding mates. Where does a young man demonstrate excellence? If everyone's meeting online and everyone wants the same dude, it creates a few things. It creates a cadre of men who feel like they've been rejected by women. And it creates this environment. If you're in the top 10% of men, it's never been better, but it creates this Porsche polygamy environment where the guys who are the kind of the most attractive males, quite frankly, they have so much opportunity, it doesn't encourage long term good behavior. So you end up with a cohort of men who feel totally rejected. And you have women who have found dating just across the spectrum is just a little shittier that the guy they want is not interested in a long term relationship. And everyone else really, they don't have venues to kind of, if you will, fall in love. And the result is loneliness. And so I worry about young men not engaging with work, not engaging. One of three jobs used to require a college degree. Now it's two and three. And in some universities in the northeast, it's two to one women to men. So they don't, they aren't getting the qualifications, they're much more prone to addiction. And the deepest resource companies in the world are all trying to convince young men that they can have a reasonable facsimile of life online. You don't need friends. You can go to Reddit and Discord. You don't need to work, just trade crypto or stocks on Coinbase or Robinhood. You don't need to shower, get in shape, have a plan. Endure rejection. Get out of the house, make figure out how to make a woman laugh. Be persistent. Endure rejection. You got you porn. So you have. I feel as though almost we're developing a subspecies of mostly males that are totally asocial, asexual. And once they get kind of into their mid late 20s, they're still living at home. And they haven't developed those skills around socialization. I don't want to say they don't become savable, but they become very hard to pull out again. And the people I hear from most on this, when I started talking about this three years ago, I was accused of being misogynist because there's a gag reflex from a lot of feminists who are like, oh shit, it's Andrew Tate again. Not recognizing that having empathy for men doesn't mean you're anti women. There needs to be a more productive conversation. Civil rights, absolutely. Civil rights didn't hurt white people. Heteronormative marriage or gay marriage didn't hurt heteronormative marriage nor acknowledging the issues facing men doesn't hurt women. Young men are four times as likely to kill themselves. They're three times as likely to be addicted. They're three times as likely to be homeless. They're 12 times as likely to be incarcerated. If there was any special interest group that was killing themselves at four times the rate of the control group, we'd move in with programs going to nyu. Down the block you're going to see black women's support group, Women in consulting Golden Seeds Venture Capital for women. There really aren't a lot of support groups for young men because of the privilege. I recognized because of the fact that men have had a 2000 year head start, we're kind of holding 19 year olds accountable and 19 year old males. And what we're finding is there's real knock on effects in our society. And generally speaking, when I hear from these mothers, they say the following. I got three kids, two daughters, one son, one daughter's in Chicago in pr, one daughter is at Penn and my son is in the basement playing video games and vaping. So less mature brains, less, less opportunity educationally. A lot of the jobs who are on ramps into a good middle class life have been outsourced or offshored mating market that is crowding into the most attractive males and leaving everyone else out, fewer third spaces for people to meet and fall in love and mate and have children. And it's leading in a technology sector that is trying to convince men you don't need to get out of the house, you can stay at home. And I relate to these men. I was one of them. I didn't have a lot of prospects when I was younger, living with my mother and I could have easily just gone down a very bad path. So I think this is something that is a real societal issue. I think the biggest threats to our society aren't climate change or even income inequality. I think it's one, extremism from the far left and the far right. And two, I think it's loneliness. This episode is brought to you by State Farm.

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Always refreshing. Still the same great taste. Diet Coke make time for you time. I think you're right. Well, I mean, you see when you go to war torn countries and I spent a lot of time building businesses in Latin America, you know what civil unrest looks like? It looks like a lot of fighting aged men on the side of the streets without anything else to do. And if you've been through, I mean, Kareem's sitting over here and he's from Egypt and is seen all around the Middle East. And I've traveled the Middle east and Latin America and you can feel what it feels like to be in an area where there is a different kind of powder keg, which is young men that understandably so, have more aggression, more testosterone and, and feel like there's no outlet. Yeah, 100%. You know what's interesting though, a small little spark of light, I think, you know, we're in Austin, like I was telling you, and we've been trying to find a church and so I'm Christian and grew up Catholic and I wanted to find a place we're going to have Kids, I think it like makes sense. It's a good way to install ethics and morals, in my opinion. And so it's like, where else do you go where you can sort of teach these? Yeah, exactly. And so whether that's stoicism or Catholicism, whatever it is. And the damnedest thing happened. We did a little tour, a group of churches to kind of see one we would like because I think I would have PTSD from a Catholic church. Again, too many wooden pews. But we went to this church called Red Rocks, like a new age Christian church. Kind of thought would freak me out, you know, like text to donate. Like, I don't know, it just kind of scared me. And yet when I walked in, I was shocked. All around were these really attractive young men and women and they were like happy and they were meeting one another. And I went from church to church to church to church all around Austin, which is a pretty liberal place. And in each of these areas, I mean, we're talking 18 year old kids to maybe 35 year olds, they're meeting one another. And I thought, man, if you are sort of a lost young man or woman and you are white and maybe you come from a decent background, there's probably one place where you have your own little version of a safe space and that might actually be a church.

I think, look, when I coach young men, the first thing or exercise I do is I say, give me your phone, unlock it, I won't judge you. And we try and find 8 to 12 hours on their phone, which is ridiculous, ridiculously easy. Between Twitter, TikTok, Coinbase and then what do you have? You want to lean in your strengths, you have a lot of capital when you're young. It's human capital. You have a lot of time. So we're going to reallocate that capital to a higher roi. First thing we're going to do is we're going to get fit, right? We're going to, we're going to sign up for classes. I don't care if it's berries or an app or the, you know, there's a great fitness, you know, the Aloe app has fitness classes. You, you go to, whatever it is, F45, we're going to start getting fit. We're going to feel better about ourselves, we're going to feel more confident. Two, we're going to start making some money. If you have a phone, you can make money in this economy. I don't care if you're a lyft driver. Tasker, TaskRabbiter whatever they call it, you're going to start figuring if you go to a construction site and you have any skills at all, you can start at about 20 bucks an hour. I don't care if it's four hours a day you need. The way you make a lot of money is by starting to make some money because you get a taste for flesh and you start thinking, wow, this money thing is awesome. And then the third thing we're going to do is at least three or four times a week, we're going to put ourselves in an environment with strangers and the agency of something bigger than us. It might be church, it might be a non profit, it might be a sports league, it might be a riding class. You have to be around strangers and we write down every time you're there. You got to meet somebody, a potential friend, a potential romantic partner, and you got to go up and introduce yourself. But being in that company of other people, in the agency of something else like church, it's just incredibly important. And young men need those guardrails. Young men. One of the things I got at Morgan Stanley, excuse me, was how to read a room. You know, also there's. It's just so important. I think we talk about a code. I'm writing a book on masculinity. I think masculinity can be a decent code for a young man. And I think of a man as supposed to be kind of three things. A provider, a protector, and a procreator. And I think all three of those things are wonderful. And men should aspire to all three of those things and break down what it means to be each of them. But the only way you're going to get there is in the agency of others and being in communities. Men are dangerous when they sequester. When a woman doesn't have a romantic relationship, a lot of times she will pour that energy into her work, into her friends. She finds other places to give and receive love. They're much better at maintaining a social network. When a guy doesn't have a prospect of a romantic relationship, he stops showering, he stops looking for a job, right? And I remember this. When I was 23, my first girlfriend told me if I didn't stop smoking so much pot, she was going to stop having sex with me. And I was really enjoying that part of my life. So I got my shit together and I stopped smoking so much pot. Guys need guardrails, young men need guardrails. That might be church, it might be the marines, it might be a girlfriend, it might be Morgan Stanley that told me I couldn't party every night because it was really hard to get up at 6:30 and put on a tie and haul my ass downtown. But without guardrails, men don't demonstrate the same discipline as women in their early years or early adult years. It takes them a while to catch up.

That's such a good point. Yeah. And I think also women out there too, like, what a dumb thing. The whole I always sort of giggle about the 65 trust fund blue eyes song because I'm like, I can't think of anything that would make me more miserable, like, who cares? Height has no bearing on happiness. Neither does eye color. Sure, money actually decreases misery largely, but I don't think it increases happiness to a huge degree in a relationship. And so I hope at some point women also start pushing back against some of these ideas.

And also, I wouldn't hold your breath.

You know, I think, yeah, you're probably right. But you know, I have a lot of friends who are my age, I'm a little older, and they make money and at a certain point they start to realize that maybe men don't want to date them as much because they're really narrowing their field of who they will date. And so, and a lot of the women, you know, women these days increasingly seem like the studies show that they don't want to date men theoretically who have different political views. So I always joke with my cousin because she's super liberal and she can't find a dude and she's super cute and she works hard and I jokingly send her the studies that say maybe you should date a conservative because young men her age are increasingly conservative. So it's just math. And also, by the way, polarity seems to work out pretty well for most of us. Maybe we should. My mom and dad had two different political perspectives for our entire lifetime growing up, and now they're married for 40 some odd years.

Yeah, there's something to the yin and the yang. I like that saying that the best marriages are, one person loads a dishwasher like a Swiss architect, the other like a raccoon on meth.

I'm the raccoon.

Yeah, I'm the same way. My, my partner will make me load the dishwasher because she gets angry that I add no value. And I'm like, I've always, I've never had any value and nothing's changed here. But then I load the dishwasher and she'll unload it and reload it.

That's Chris, my husband. You're doing it, Terry. Yeah, 100%.

You're doing it wrong. But there's. I mean, there's so many reasons. The thing I hate about men getting more conservative and women more progressive, it's yet another reason for people not to hook up. When I was dating, if I looked at all of my dates, all of my relationships, for the life of me, I would not be able to tell you what political affiliation they are.

I know, right?

It's like we've invented another reason for people decide not to hook up. And what I tell men to generally advice a lot of young people. How many times have you heard? I have all these great female friends, attractive, nice, high character, professionally, and they have their act together, and they can't find a man. That's not true. They can't find a man they want to date.

That's true.

And my general advice to men is, you need to get your act together. You gotta have a plan. What's your plan? Right? Every woman, subjectively or implicitly or explicitly, is going to try to figure out, does this dude have a plan? You don't need to be a baller. You don't need to have a. A fast car and a beautiful condo, but you need to have a plan. Like, I am thinking about this shit. You need to demonstrate discipline. One way you demonstrate discipline is you're in really good shape. It says, I have my act together. I know how to commit to something. I have. You know, I take pride in achievement. You gotta have a plan, right? You gotta be kind. You gotta be. You gotta demonstrate a certain level of. I want to call it aggression. But you make the plans. This is where we're going to dinner. You have manners, you pay. Right? None of this. I was talking to this guy the other day and asked him about his date, and he's like, it's great. And we split the check. And I'm like, let me guess. You didn't have sex. I'm like, you're just. No one is ever going to kiss you. They'll all pretend that it's fine, you paying, and then she's not going to have sex with you.

I do remember the one date where they did that. Like, to this day, I remember the guy that did that. I was like, you want me to pay? And he was like, sure, you want to? And I was like, when women offer.

That'S the most hollow offer ever. And I know that's sexist, but there's evidence to back that up.

Yeah, it's true.

Yeah. I tell my son if they're in the company of women and they can't pay, they shouldn't go.

Yeah, or go somewhere for free.

Yeah. Or go somewhere, go for a walk.

That's totally fair. Go do a workout, go for a walk, whatever, I get it. Yeah.

Whatever it is. But women are generally attracted to men for three reasons. The third is kindness. They want someone who's going to be a long term partner. The second is intellectually. If you're funny, really lean into it because the fastest way to communicate intellect. And men who make good decisions. Women are attracted to them because if you make good decisions, your kids are more likely to survive. But the number one is your ability to signal resources. Now the easiest way to signal resources is to show up with a Rolex and a BMW. But also having a plan is signaling future resources. Right. So you just have to be thoughtful about those. And what I tell men is you, you gotta have your act together. You gotta say, would you want to mate with you? Start, start figuring out, start looking in the mirror, start looking the way you dress, start, I mean, Christ, you have bad breath. I mean, what is it, man? Get your act together. Start becoming more attractive to you and to women. What I coach women around is what I call the second coffee. You can't tell women to lower their standards. That's just not. But what I say is if you go on a date and it's not sparks, but maybe it was nice, but you think, oh, there was no chemistry there, give it a second date. Because a lot of couples that have been married found that the woman who's much finer filter, she started to find he was able to demonstrate excellence over the medium term. And she fell for him. Second coffee. Like if. Unless it's just awful or it just not, you know, I mean, I'm not going to tell anyone. I can't tell anyone to lower the standards. But give it a second coffee. You just don't know. And then the other thing I tell all young people, your default setting is, yes, I have some friends going out. Yes, I'll come. Oh, there's a dinner. Oh, there's a lame corporate event. Yes, yes, yes, return eye contact. And what I tell men is approach strangers and if you express romantic interest or you go up to someone and they're not interested, you're both going to be fine. You're both going to be fine. And men get a lot of mixed signals in the professional world around the difference, around where contact could be harassment. And I'm like, if you don't know the difference between expressing interest and harassing somebody, you have bigger problems, but something we don't like to talk about. One in three relationships begin at work, and 99% of them are consensual. And there's been some.

My first husband.

There's some horrific abuses of power in the workplace. Those people should be fired or worse. But it's okay to meet people at work. There's been 12 marriages at the companies I've started. I see that as a mitzvah. I think it's a wonderful thing. I love that. So anyways, I'm worried the young people, we aren't creating the economic stability, the economic prosperity, or even inventing the third spaces, whether it's church, national service, parks, leagues, nonprofits, a chance for them to meet, a chance for them to get together and quote, unquote, fall in love. And we're regressing to a more primal vision of mating, where a small number of men get to procreate. 80% of women have procreated. It's only 40% of men. Throughout history. And we're moving back.

80% of. Say that again.

80% of women have proreated, have had a child. And 40% of men, only 40% of men have. Because generally speaking, the middle class is an accident. A group of men in the middle who are attracted to women is an accident. It happened in World War II. Seven men came home from war. They demonstrated excellence. They were in uniform, they were in good shape. And the government flushed a bunch of money into their pockets with the GI Bill, the National Highway Act. So there were a lot of very attractive men coming home. And it started the baby boom. And these loving, supportive, confident households created this prosperity and this progressive outlook. We're like, let's give women a shot. Let's give non whites a shot, everybody. This prosperity and rights shoved into the middle class is such a wonderful thing. We should shove it into as many corners as possible. That's the greatest innovation in history. But it started with young people having more economic opportunity and quite frankly, a group of men that were more attractive to potential mates. And what we have in our society right now, unfortunately, is too many men who are just not economically or emotionally viable.

Yeah, it's beautiful. What a beautiful disaster. I think where I kind of want to end is maybe not the most of high notes, but I think important to note. I love some of your writing on this little wrap up here. Let's talk about another boom. Not the baby boom, but the LBO boom. And what happened with leverage buyouts in this country. And what happened with sort of the few owning much? Because I don't think the average person quite realizes what's happened right underneath our nose.

Sure. I look at it mostly through the lens of. So I don't think. I'm not one of these people that thinks all private equity and buyout firms has been bad because I know a lot of dentists and people who own lawn care and people who own chiropractic clinics who have found liquidity by a private equity firm coming in and trying to consolidate it, consolidate the back end. So I think capital coming into the market is actually a good thing for people. Where I see a concentration of power is across industry. One firm controls two thirds of all social media. One firm controls 93% of the $300 billion search market. There's three chicken companies that control like 80% of chicken. We have allowed so much concentration of power that the rents they can charge on consumers, on marketers, go up every year. So Amazon, 20 years ago, if you were a third party marketer or third party reseller selling your products on Amazon, they took about 20% of your gross dollar volume. Now they take 45 because they kind of own the market. If you don't sell on Amazon, you're kind of not selling online. So this concentration of power that has raised rents across corporate America and quite frankly raised rents across parents. I know TikTok's bad. I know Snap's bad. Like how do, what do I. How do I tell my kid to communicate with his friends back home? If I get them off Snap, that's it. These companies have so much power, I'm going to tell my kid not to have an iPhone. So there's so much concentration of power that the rents have gotten greater and greater and greater. So I go more towards antitrust. I think there needs to be a lot of breakups. It's good for shareholders. When AT&T was broken up into the seven Baby Bells, all seven of those companies were worth more than the original AT&T within 10 years. Google hasn't really innovated. Search isn't much different than it was 10 years ago because they haven't needed to. They have 93% share. They buy any company that threatens them.

Microsoft too, with the suite of products. I mean, they just basically recreate any product that comes out there in the marketplace that they can put inside of a Microsoft suite.

That's right. And they're a perfect example of the power of antitrust because in 99 they were found guilty of monopoly abuse and they were ordered to break up. And even though they overturned the ruling, they stopped bundling and putting companies out of business. So if there hadn't been a DOJ ruling against Microsoft in 1999, we'd all be saying, I don't know, bang it. Google is a function of antitrust. So the ability. Once companies get too big, breaking them up and auctioning the environment, there's more people. The rents for labor go up, Employees do better because there's more people bidding on their time, there's more tax revenue. Shareholders traditionally do well. PayPal used to be owned by ebay, and they spun it. It's now worth, I think, 15 times what eBay is worth. So taxes. More taxes, more entrepreneurship, higher salaries, more shareholder value. The only person that loses is the CEO who generally wants to sit on the iron throne of all seven realms, not just Westeros. So I would argue the way to oxygenate the market would be to go through industry by industry and break up. You know, it's. Launching a tech company is really difficult right now. There's a lot of bigger players, and there's just a concentration of power across industry that is very hard to break into. And they donate a lot of money to Washington. There's regulatory capture. Why do I have to buy insurance to get a mortgage? Because they're in bed with each other. Right. I just. So I think there's. I think there's a lot that can be done to make small business and bring down the costs for regular day. For regular consumers through antitrust. The private equity market. I'm of two minds. Is there abuses when big players come in? Yes, but at the same time, I like a lot of capital in the market, bidding on entrepreneurs, businesses. You know, there's a. You know, there's a. There's a person on the other end of that. That pool maintenance company that just got bought. That guy, his son doesn't want to go into it, right? And he's got a nice little business. And a private equity shop comes in and says, okay, I'll pay a million bucks for your business. You work here for four years and you have a way out. So I'm of two minds, and I work with a lot of private equity firms, and I've generally found. Generally found that they're good people trying to, you know, who pay well. So I can understand that there's some situations where they come into a company, lever it up in debt, let it go out of business, raid the employee pension fund. I find a lot of that is a bit made for news for the business section of the New York Times. I don't think they're as mendacious as people think. Now venture capitalists, I think that's another story. I think there's some nuance there. But generally speaking, I'm a fan of capital coming into the small business market.

Yeah, I totally agree. Well, I also think to your point, in the very beginning, everybody's looking for a way to make more with less risk. And so I think the concern is always not that private equity is evil or even the Google and all them are evil. It's just how do we make sure that our perverse incentives of always wanting to win individually do not overcome everything else. And so I get concerned when I see private equity go from owning 4% of the private businesses to 20% over a, depending on how you measure it, somewhere between a 10 and 12 year period. But man, you could say the big four are much more of an instigator on the public market than the private equity companies are on the private market.

Seven companies are responsible for a third of the returns. One company, Apple's worth more than the entire UK stock market. We have this illusion that the stock market is really robust. There's seven companies that are driving the majority of the return. If you tell me what stocks you have, I mean if Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Google, Meta, Nvidia, Netflix, and I don't know if the other one's Microsoft. If you don't own one of those seven stocks, you've underperformed the market and your returns are probably flat.

What do you think about people who say like the argument today is like Vanguard, State street and Blackrock own, let's call it 80% of the S&P and 40% of the broad market. But then people will say, but they're passive, they're passive investors. What do you think about that? Do you think they actually change governance on most of our companies in the US because they own them? Or are they truly passive?

That's a really interesting question. So concentration of ownership is just a bad. Is this bad to begin with? Although I would argue that those industries, I mean, it's an interesting question. So there's two sides to it. I love low cost index funds. You want to have some fun? Everybody believes they're smarter than your average bear. I'm not immune. I stock pick. But what I would tell young people is 70% of any of your savings, 1 99% of your savings is going to come from money you can't touch. Whether it's equity or things that automatically go into a savings account. Low cost index funds. I work with the brightest people in finance. I've advised the most prestigious VCs, private equity funds and my sumnet conclusion is no one has any idea. And the VCs that outperform are the ones that get better deal flow. But if you took the entire alternative investments industry, any logo on cnbc, anyone that advertises any hedge fund anywhere, it's essentially a grift. And if you look at their performance, they've exactly underperformed the S and P by the amount of their fees. So Vanguard low cost spy index funds, I absolutely think that's the way to go. Now whether those funds have become so big that they dictate corporate governance and they're passive so they don't create enough churn with management, I don't know. I mean that's an. It's an interesting theory how they've maybe they've created a stasis in the market. And that's an interesting question. I don't have a viewpoint. My where I take from these is I tell people, they're like oh, is it too late to buy Nvidia? I'm like I don't know. But it's not too late to buy an index fund. And your 27 cents on the dollar are going to go into the magnificent seven. So if they double you're fine. But if the other 493 companies have their day in the sun, you're going to get to participate. And the market, especially in America, I wonder if emerging markets are about to finally have their day in the sun. Because the US market is actually pretty expensive but along lines of index or diversification. I would even suggest index funds that have some exposure to foreign markets now because the US market looks historically expensive. But you don't need to be a hero. It's like what John Bogle from Vanguard said, you don't need to find the needle in the haystack. Buy the whole goddamn haystack. And the amazing thing about humanity is that with population growth and innovation and technology generally speaking, over the medium and long term we become more productive and the market goes up and to the right. So yeah, pretend you know more than everyone else. Have an expensive lesson figuring out you don't take a third. Buy dogecoin or buy whatever it is, you know, buy the new AI company put 70% into and this is the key. Low cost index funds people you're in this business, people don't realize how much of the returns are eaten up by fees hello, friends.

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Exclusions apply. No, because they hide them and they think it's just the expense ratio.

Well, 2%, that doesn't sound bad. That's a 30 year return.

Yeah, 100. And then you don't add the fund admin fees and anything you have inside of it. Yeah, I totally agree. I think Vanguard's a great place to invest. An awful place to work, unless you don't really like working that hard. Did you work there? Yeah, it's my first. It's socialism in a company. You know, there's no meritocracy. It's kind of like if you want to progress in the military, they go cool, three years. Like you're at this level and then at three years you can go somewhere else. That was my experience. It was a long time ago. That was right out of college. And you know, when you're young and dumb, you're young and dumb. So I don't know how much of that was just like, I'm really good. And really I was an idiot who knew nothing, but I much preferred Goldman, even though it was hard and I was scared I was gonna get fired all the time. But Vanguard's great because you can't get fired unless you like cuss in an email or maybe have like some version of harassment. You get a company match in your 401k, that's really aggressive. They never fire anybody. And you can climb the ladder as long as you stay there forever, but you can't go fast. And that never worked that well for me.

But that those are different cultures and there's people for each of those cultures.

100% right.

And I generally find the companies. It's proximity bias because I'm around very ambitious young people. Being at a business school.

And you're in New York versus Malvern, Pennsylvania.

Yeah. And what I found is that the best companies that really outperform the market have the culture of the following. We own your ass. You're gonna have no life. But this is what we're gonna do. If you want to go flat out, we're gonna let you run as fast as you can. And we have 30 year olds here making a million bucks, and we don't look at them and go, your time will come. You'll be VP at 45. Don't worry. Roger's above you and he's been here 20. Like, you want to go flat out, we'll go as fast as you can run and. But it's not balance. It's not paternity leave. It's not pet bereavement leave. It's not. The implicit agreement is if you go flat out here and you're good and you're talented and you devote your life to work, which is not for everybody, I'm going to put you where your parents were at 50, at 30. And there's a lot of people who want that culture. They're like, I want to go flat out. I want economic security. I want. I'll have more balance when I'm older. There's also a lot of other people are like, no, I want to work, to live. I want to have kids. I want to have healthy relationships. I want to spend time with my parents. I want to be fit. I want to have weekends and maybe in the summer, take, you know, Friday off and go to the lake.

They're probably happier.

Yeah, they are probably happier. There's nothing wrong with that. And then, like, I worked, one of my first consulting clients was Levi Strauss and company. They were very maternal with summer Fridays, mental health counseling. I mean, really, like, cared about their employees. And Morgan Stanley was like, shut the fuck up. We'll give you feedback once a year, and it's called a check. And you'll. You'll find out what your bonus was when it hits your bank account. We didn't even give her. We didn't even get reviews.

I remember that, too. Don't you remember when they were like, you get a bonus? You're like, how do you calculate? Excuse me, don't ask how you calculated this. Now my employees are like, can you please tell me how much you make? And when I'm like, what? Also good for you guys that you have the balls to ask this stuff.

Yeah, quarterly reviews and yeah, the world's changed, probably for the better. But the majority of the people I'm around, young people, want to go flat out. And the companies that usually outperform the market are the ones that create that culture around going. Kind of the ultimate arbitrage in our economy is, is fossil fuels. But the second of that is finding young, super hardworking, super talented people who are better with technology and paying them 30% of what you're paying Bob, who's a 40 year old, and they do 90, they add 90% of the value. They're less mature. They're not very good managers. They're super smart. They don't have dogs or kids, so they're willing to kind of work all the time. That's the ultimate economic arbitrage in corporate America. And the companies that attract that secret sauce that is very talented young people outperform everyone else.

That's such a good point. Yeah. Today Tanner was like, oh, yeah, we've got some free time. We have 23 minutes in between meetings. We were giggling. I'm like, yeah, that's exactly what we want. Okay, last question. Elon Musk, do you not like the guy? You guys get at it at Twitter. Did he really call you insufferable? Did you just put that on a drift? What do we think about Elon Musk?

Oh, he called me an insufferable numbskull on Twitter. Yeah.

Did you talk back to him?

I don't even remember. I don't remember what I was saying. Yeah, it's not a big deal. And he's actually reached out to me through a friend saying we should get together.

I like that. I like a little bit of. I think you gotta push back, even on the biggest billionaires. And they can handle it. And they'll probably push back too.

Yeah. Look, the problem, we're in a culture where we've decided if someone or a company is a net positive. If I had a button that Elon Musk would have to go back to South Africa, I wouldn't push that button. I think he's been a net good for the world, inspired the EV race, the space. I mean, seeing that rocket, that booster rocket captured on it as it's falling, that shit's just inspiring. But at the same time, the problem with the word net good for society is the word net. I also think he should be held accountable for his coarseness and his cruelty. I don't think you attain that level of power such that you cannot pay people their legally obligated severance. I Don't think you accuse an employee of being a sex criminal such that that employee has to move their house. I think he's not a very good role model for men. I don't think living alone with none of your 12 children by three women with a loaded gun next to your bed is what men should aspire to. So you know, I think it's just sort of a Greek tragedy. I think he's going to move the world forward. But I think quite frankly being coarse and cruel and super into ketamine, I don't think that's something young men should aspire to. So should he be recognized for his achievements? Yes. Should he also be held accountable and should we be critical of him on the things that where I don't think he's living up to his blessings. Yeah. And so, but look, I don't think he thinks a lot about me, nor should he, but I don't, you know, I, I like more generally the people are most patriotic are the ones who've invested most in our nation and that's veterans, they're the most patriotic. The thing I find so distressed, distressing about guys like Elon Musk and generally what I'll call this tech pro community is I think they're the most blessed Americans there's or the most blessed people on the planet. Because if you look at a map, if you go up the western coast, you start at San Diego Qualcomm and you go up to LA, you get SpaceX and Snap and you keep going north. You get Salesforce and Meta and Alphabet and you keep going north. You get Amazon and OpenAI and Microsoft and then it stops when you hit the Canadian border, Lululemon, maybe in Vancouver. And then you go down to San Diego and it stops and you got to go another 5,000km until you get to Mercado Libre. Maybe there's something about being in America that has really helped you. And I find these are the first people to shitpost America. So it's like boss, you don't realize a lot of your success is not your fault. It's the success of other Americans. Every one of these companies is built on a technology that was funded by American middle class taxpayers. Whether it was DARPA, Elon Musk got $350 million tax free loan. He's, he hates subsidies, but he was there for it when we gave him a low interest, $350 million. The charging stations are being built out by taxpayers, DARPA, the Internet, Netflix was built on net neutrality funded by California and the other 49 states, taxpayers, and yet they seem to just dislike America once they have leveraged the shit out of it. I just find it obnoxious.

I think that's a good pushback. My husband is a contractor still for the Defense Innovation Unit at the Department of Defense and their AI portfolio and runs the commercial portion. And a lot of what you talk about of us versus China, which is real, not like us versus the Chinese, but the actual Chinese government, only happens because the government is willing to fund a bunch of initiatives in Silicon Valley and in venture capital that venture capitalists would not.

No way. They wouldn't get near it.

They wouldn't get near it. And you and I both know a lot of people who are full time venture capitalists. I want to come back in my next life as one because I don't think the real hard work is being the founders doing the ridiculously hard, masochistic thing that is building a business out of nothing. And I also think, you know, being a government worker when you have to go to war at a foreign land, which is our soldiers. So I agree with you. All right. This is incredible. Thank you for being here today. This was so interesting. I learned a ton and I know that everybody probably knows where to find you, but if I haven't said it before, no mercy, no Malice, probably my favorite newsletter.

Oh, thank you.

Yeah, incredible newsletter overall. And I listened to a drift in probably like three days on audiobook. And then I bought actually the real book too, because the graphics are so incredible. And I think it's a. Even if people don't read books today, which is more normal, like being able to understand the world through those graphs is very easy and digestible. So if you haven't read Scott's new book, Adrift, it's really good, as are all the rest. Thank you so much for being on this podcast.

Thank you. Congrats on your success.

Yeah, well, you know, we'll see how long it lasts. All right, guys, I think that's a wrap.

Good. Thanks, everybody. Rince takes your laundry and hand delivers it to your door, expertly cleaned and folded so you could take the time once spent folding and sorting and waiting.

To finally pursue a whole new version of you.

Like tea time you.

Or this tea time you.

Or even this tea time you said you hear about Dave. Or even tea time. Tea time, Tea time you.

So update on Dave.

It's up to you. We'll take the laundry rinse. It's time to be great.