Ozempic Expert: They’re Lying To You About Getting Fat | Dr. Tyna Moore

We're in trouble. I think we're going extinct, honestly, as a species.

I've got Dr. Tina here, who is a naturopathic doctor trained both ways, holistically and traditional medicine. And so we get to learn from.

Somebody who's walked the walk, eat more meat, lift weights. Deadlifts fix a lot of things.

Yeah. You know, you have this quote that I love, which is, when in doubt, deadlift. Need to make a big decision but feel unsure, deadlift. Need to process anger or frustration, deadlift.

This is non negotiable if you want to age well. We have to move every day. We're primates. We're fancy mammals with opposable thumbs.

You also have some really interesting take on BLP1s. Are they bad? Are they good?

You can over carnivore yourself into insulin resistance.

Wow.

Yeah. Basically it was like, if your girlfriend's telling you to cut your hair off, she's not your friend.

I actually agree with it. I don't even need to see the science on that. Hey, and welcome back to the Big Deal podcast. I'm your friend Cody, and I'm here today to talk about a thing we don't talk about enough. Like, where's the actual science science around GLP1s, like OIC and eating carnivore and what is right for you based on data, not influencer view count. Then this podcast is going to be for you. I've got Dr. Tina here, who is a fascinating human in many regards. First of all, because she is actually a practicing doctor, she's also a naturopathic doctor trained both ways, holistically and traditional medicine, and so she understands the full gamut. She's also 51 years old, and so she talks a lot about what it means to be a woman and to be a woman through the ages. All right, so without further ado, let's get into it with Dr. Tina. You know, what I wanted to start is basically one I was laughing with Gabrielle Lyon, because I'm like, how come doctors are hotter now than they've ever been? You her Andrew Huberman. Amazing. And I think that's actually kind of how it should be. Right? Like, if people are healthy, it doesn't mean hot. Like you have to look like Kim Kardashian, but, like, healthy and fit. And talking to us about being healthy and fit, you should probably look the fucking part. Is that a crazy thing to say that, like, doctors should also practice what they preach?

I feel strongly about that. I feel like you have to walk the talk.

I think your Story is really interesting too, because you weren't always so perfect. And so, you know, maybe you could talk a little bit about the fact that like, hey, wherever you guys are, we see you. I see you because I was you. And now you're 51, you look great and you're applying these practices in a way that's like you can be a normal human too. So maybe talk to us about the pack a day situation.

Yeah, so we were talking off camera. I chain smoked for 10 years. Pack a day from 24, I'm sorry, 14 to 24. Don't know why. Probably because I was growing up in Oregon where it rains all the time and it's really depressing and dark. We drank a lot back then. That was a big drinking culture. I don't think that today's young people are drinking nearly as much. But when I grew up, everybody was drinking, particularly in places where there was nothing else to do do. And I wasn't so healthy and fit. I think as a child I spent a lot of time doing gymnastics and sports. And so there was some muscle memory there. And then I spent a long swath of time just eating. You know, I call myself a Mac. I was a macaroni and cheesatarian. I literally was just, I'm not going to eat meat. And then I ate just garbage, you know, So I pretty much consumed garbage for a extensive period of time. And then I had my daughter, who's going to be 25, gosh, in a few weeks. And I remember laying on the couch with a migraine, just feeling awful and looking at her. And she was a toddler and she was like, mom, come play, you know, mommy, come play. And I remember thinking, I can't be a piece of shit mom. Like, I can't lay here and be that mom, you know, when I know better. And by then I had spent time working with my mentor who was a phenomenal naturopathic physician. I knew better and I wasn't doing it, you know, I was still eating like Pop Tarts and I wasn't smoking or drinking then, but I just wasn't doing anything. And so then I spent a period of time kind of wafting around, not really sure how to implement. Started naturopathic college, you know, was learning along the way what I was supposed to do even more so. And then I was coming upon 50 and I. Or I'm sorry, 40. And I was like, God, I better train for menopause. Because when my mom hit menopause, it was a train wreck. She went from this Beautiful tiny little thing to just really having her metabolic health go sideways. And my mentor had always taught me that metabolic health was the crux of everything. Keep your waist circumference low, keep your muscle like back in the 90s, he was telling me to get off the treadmill and start lifting weights. In the 90s, that was not cool then. No. And he told me to quit eating white foods. All white foods, meaning starches, carbs, focus on protein. And so I had been around it, I knew better, I'd been around it for a long time and finally I was like, I gotta just walk the talk.

So so you basically, you saw your mom go through menopause and when you say metabolic health, basically what that means is she became quite over overweight.

Yes. And then you end up in this pre diabetic state, which is, you know, they call it metabolic syndrome, which a lot of people are walk. You know what, the last stats we have, 2018, stats that were published in 2021 showing that close to, I think 94% of US adults have cardiometabolic compromise. So it's this pre med, or I'm sorry, pre diabetes state this phase one, if you will, Stage one, some people call it. And so back then they called it syndrome acts. It was brand new, nobody had appreciated it. And so it was this conglomerate of symptoms and they didn't really know what to do with it. But you stay on that trajectory and you will end up with type 2 diabetes. At some point, you just suddenly arrive and your numbers match on labs and your doctor's like, congratulations, you have type two. Well, that damage has been happening for, you know, 10, 15, 20 years sometimes.

Oh man. Yeah, I saw this thing the other day and it kind of made me giggle on the Internet. It's like when you try to lose weight, you avoid sugar, carbs, seed oils, do 24 hour prolonged fasts and go carnivore. When you want your dog to lose weight, you put less food in the bowl and you walk him more. So like, what is the answer? Should we just eat less and walk more or is it actually more complex than, than that? For those of us today, it's all of it.

It's both. And this is where the calories in, calories out, people want to fight with the insulin resistance, people, and it's both. And so the way that I like to think about it is we have certain metabolic pathways and they exist in a counterbalance. Not to get too nerdy, but most simplistically we have this ampk, this amp kinase Pathway which helps get your mitochondria revving. It helps people feel better when they have their AMPK pathway revved up. It also when too high, can become catabolic, meaning it starts to waste you. This is where I think high dose GLP1 comes into being a problem. It revs the AMPK. On the other side we have MTOR. And MTOR is like your muscle building. You rev that pathway through strength training and through eating more protein. And when that pathway is too high and insulin resistance can actually push it pathologically, when that side's too high, you end up with modern diseases like cancer. So in my head it's a balance. So we need to be doing a buffet of all the things.

God, it's just, it's so annoying. You know, I think for, for people listening today, you're like, God, I have so many things that I need to do to change my life. I'm just trying to be a little bit fitter. You know, I want to look a little bit sexier, I want to have a longer life or a healthier lifespan. But there's so much and there's so much misinformation. Like I saw this comparison of the historical food pyramid versus a modern day food pyramid. And I'd be curious your take on it. Basically the inverted pyramid, which they're calling like the low carb food pyramid, kind of sounds like what your doctor friend was talking to you about is like at the top, so the least amount we have those high in carbohydrates, you know, starchy vegetables, nuts and seeds, lower low sugar fruits. And then in the middle we should be doing a lot of low carb fruits and vegetables. And then at the bottom we should be doing the most whole fat, dairy and proteins, fats and oils, et cetera. That right versus the inverse of what we used to be. And is it too simplistic to say that that is right for everybody?

I think it's too simplistic to say I think everybody's a little bit different. You can over carnivore yourself into insulin resistance. High levels of arachidonic acid can send you into insulin resistance as well. So the way that I like to think about it is a just eat real food, get enough protein. What does that mean? We could go high protein, we could go lower protein. I think it depends on the individual. I think it depends on their age, I think it depends on their goals, how active they are, how fit are. But generally speaking, you know, a gram of protein per pound of body weight is a Great goal. So for women our size, I'm sorry, I'm thinking 90 to 120 grams is a minimum goal. And then more if you're, you know, pregnant or you're lifting a lot of weight, make sure you get a variety of colors in your diet. And then as we get older, understand that we become more insulin resistant, period. As we age as women and we lose our estrogen stores, we become more insulin resistant, period. And the more muscle mass we lose with age and atrophy, because that's just a normal part of aging as we start to atrophy everywhere, that we will become more insulin resistant. So in my head, the goal is always to keep insulin sensitivity going, whatever that looks like. So I've carnivored myself into insulin resistance. So this is the people who say, I got fatter on Carnivore. What's happening? They're inducing an insulin resistance. The women who show up in my clinic, and I've been treating them since they were your age. And then all of a sudden they show up and they're closer to my age and they're like, I don't know what happened. This like 15 to 20 pounds just showed up. I haven't changed anything. That's low key insulin resistance. And it may not even be showing up on labs yet. It can be happening at a cellular level. And the symptomology is what I go off of. I don't care what their labs say. If they're exhibiting signs of insulin resistance, I. E. Random weight gain, that doesn't make sense. You know, it's not adding up. So there's no reason to make it crazy. We have to move every day. We're human, we're primates. We're fancy mammals with opposable thumbs. We are a lever system. We are an upright lever system. We are designed to pick up heavy shit and put it down. We are designed to ambulate and walk. So, like, it doesn't need to be crazy. I don't know. We get so off track. And I think the Internet's very polarizing and I think people create content that's clickbaity so people will follow. But it becomes very confusing for the average person. And the same. I have been singing the same song for decades, which is eat more meat, lift weights, deadlifts, fix a lot of things, especially, you know, if you can get yourself heavy. And what is heavy? That is really up to the individual. It's different. We probably have a different version of heavy, right?

Yours is bigger than mine.

No, I'm sure you lift way more than me. I think that sleep is critical. And we as a society have. I think it's coming around. But my generation, it was cool to not sleep. It was like the less sleep you could get by on, the cooler you were. You know, my generation, Gen X was raised up on that heroin sheet, skinny look. So it was like the skinnier you could be. So we all pretty much like wasted ourselves away into sarcopenia. Walked into our middle age with no muscle and then wondering why my age brought.

What is sarcopenia?

It's just this. It's muscle wasting. It's poverty of the flesh. That's literally the translation is poverty of the flesh. So as we age and we become more inflamed through the aging process, we literally start to waste. And then its sister is cachexia and that is an inflammatory induced. Like when people are sick with cancer or they've got a, you know, they've come through a terrible viral illness. You've seen people come out of COVID wasted away. That's cachexia. And once those processes start, it's almost like a feed forward mechanism. So you've heard, you know, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon talk about how the older you get, the more protein you need, the more you need to be focusing on this, which seems unfair. You know, I'm 50 and I'm like, dude, I just want to chill. I've been fighting my body my whole life.

Yep, yep.

So the key is to not fight the body. Chill the F out. Because people are, I think women in particular, they think, okay, orange theory, CrossFit, I'm going to hit it hard. As we get into menopause, that becomes less. The success rate goes down there.

Wow.

We need, we need it. We need stimulation. But I really think in many cases we need to find what works for our bodies and not drive that cortisol. I think the intensity level as we get older needs to be modulated more for the individual.

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So as we get older, as or as you get older as a woman, you should do less orange theory, by and large, less intense cardio and more weightlifting. Yes.

Interesting. And I like strength training because you can. You can gauge it for the individual. You can take longer breaks between sets. You can increase the weight, you can increase the reps. You can play with the tension time under tension. You can pace the move so that we're just doing, you know, really slow, eccentric, and then more explosive, concentric, like, whatever it takes. I think it can be modulated much more for the individual depending on where they're at, what their orthopedic faults are, how old they are.

You know, that's actually really helpful because, like, my husband, for instance, is a former Navy seal, so he's a psychopath like Gabrielle's husband. And he will always say, intensity, intensity, intensity. But for instance, you know, for many times, you know, I already have a lot of stress at work, and I run, like, at a pretty high stress level as is. And so when I'm in the gym, I like lifting heavy, but I don't love that butterfly in the chest, heavy sprint feeling. And, you know, he would say, historically, well, that's what you have to do if you want to get results. And it's interesting because my body's kind of been like, nah, I don't think that's. That's not it for me anymore. But there's actually science that backs that. You don't have to go into the gym as you get older and heavy breathe, cycle sweating everywhere. To have longevity success as a woman.

I don't think it's necessary. And I think people will argue across the board. I do think it's important. You know, Dr. Stacy Sims talks about making sure that you get certain levels of intensity in increments. She calls it sprint interval training. So you're doing these short increments of high intensity and then you're resting. And I always say rest as long as you need. That might be three to five minutes. It doesn't have to be these short intervals of rest either. And make sure you completely get back to having easy breathing and then go hit it again. So I might do that on the rower. I might. Or the. I Love the airdyne bike. You know, the assault bike. I will just hit it until I. It. I count to about 20 to 30 before I feel my whole system shaking. And then I just get off and wander around the gym for a while and, you know, go do something else. Men are different than women, and women at your age are different than women in menopause. And so I find when I crank up the intensity too high, I blow up. I just get fatter everywhere. And it's cortisol. It's because I have enough cortisol. My life is also quite stressful, and I end up in this sort of, like, chronic cortisol state where I'm puffy and bloated. But cortisol's also catabolic. Cortisol chews up your tissues. So if we're cranking cortisol in the gym, but we're trying to gain muscle, you can see where intensity needs to be dialed in for the individual, and that's gonna be different for all of us. So I can't work out like, Gabrielle, Yeah, if I tried, I would die. I feel like I'm dying, and it's not helpful. And my sleep gets messed up, and I feel like I'm going to faint when I stand up from a squatted position. Like, my adrenals are like, no, do not do this to us.

How do you know when a workout is right for you or not? How does a woman listening to this go? Okay, I need to work out more and more intensely. I need to do less. How do you listen to your body correctly? What's the way to know?

I think you should feel better when you leave the gym than you came in. You should feel invigorated. You should feel like you got a boost. You should feel like it's going to carry you through your day. You should feel like your mood's improved. You should not feel like you want to make a sweat angel on the floor and stay there. And you should not have to go lie down on the couch. Sometimes I do have to go sit in the car for a few minutes after a workout and just kind of, like, recalibrate my nervous system. And then the next day, you should feel better, not worse. You might be a little sore, but you shouldn't feel like, God, I feel like I got hit with a truck. You know, that's your adrenal saying, no, do not do this. So I think that the intensity level needs to be dialed for the individual. It's really, really important, and we need to consider the implications of cortisol. Because if you're a middle aged woman, you're stressed out of your mind, you're insulin resistant by nature because your hormones are waning. Now. You're trying to do these long intermittent fasts. You're trying to do hardcore intensity training because you're like, I gotta keep up. I could do it. Ten years ago, these women come in, they're hitting a wall and they are literally blowing up. Usually right here is the indication.

So. Oh, your midsection is an indication of. I am actually working out incorrectly and eating incorrectly. And it's not just that I should just walk more and eat less.

Yes, the walking's great always. I think it's nice and calm. You know, walking keeps you, it keeps your sense. We want to hone the central nervous system. And the way I think about the central nervous system is we want to hit it to get a hormetic impact. Meaning hormesis is for the listeners, is just this concept of strategic intervals of stress. And then the key to hormetic stress is to rest the organism after and refeed. So we want to hit it. So you might leave a, you know, like, maybe you PR'd your deadlift that day and you know what that feels like. Have you ever cried after?

Yeah, sure.

It's not because you're happy, it's because your nervous system just went right.

I thought I was happy, but now you are.

But like you're crying and you're like, I don't know what's happening right now. And that's your nervous system going, which is great. If you spend the next two days chilling, maybe doing that doesn't mean laying on, you know, sitting your ass on the couch all day, but you're doing some gentle movement. You might choose yoga, you might choose walking, you might choose swimming, whatever. Maybe you go for a hike with your husband or whatever and your cute dog, but. And then you refeed and then that hormetic hit was therapeutic, it wasn't catabolic.

I just think that's so beautiful because, you know, if you're listening out there and you feel like everybody's always telling you to do more and to keep going and you're not enough. And, you know, yes, you should be rich and you should be happily married and you should have two kids and you should have great girlfriends, you should also have a six six pack, right? You just need to know that that's ridiculous and it's okay to not have all of that at once. In fact, that would be ridiculous to have all of that once. And also, I think it's so liberating to know, yeah, we need to move more, probably. Yeah, we need to eat a little bit. Bit less, maybe. Maybe a tiny bit less drinking. But also there's some real things out there where it's not always just do more and you gotta do less.

Yeah. Like a drink might actually, and I'm not like saying go drink, but a glass of wine to celebrate might actually lower your cortisol and allow you to have a happier homeostasis inside your body. Think of it that way. We're always trying to go towards homeostasis. So if you're trying to work out with your husband and you're trying to keep pace and you're like, I don't feel right, then listen to that. Go do something else. You know, maybe you just go. You go lift slow and heavy, and you get a couple sets in and you're like, I'm good. My husband the other day was watching me work out and he came over, he's like, you're done. Like, he could just see it. I started shaking and my form was falling apart. And he's like, you're done. You've had a stressful week. We're done. We're leaving. So I think that's important.

I like this husband of yours.

He's downstairs. Oh, is he? He's probably playing with your dog.

I can't wait to meet him. I brought my husband to work today too.

Oh, good.

We could have our husbands and the dog go together.

He's a good old farmer. And I want to add too. I think this is important. You asked me, like, how do I look good at 51? I do think there's something to. And you mentioned six packs. I think there's something as women age, and I know that other trainers will back me up on this. As women hit middle age, we look better with a little bit of fat. We just keep like. I had a. Another. A woman in her 60s, an influencer, beautiful, very fit woman. She said, how does your face look?

Great.

And I'm like, well, I don't think my face looks that great, but thank you. But I'm like, it's just. It's fat. Like, it's actually there still. Like, I don't. Yeah, I think leaning out to the point of that, because then you have to fill it with something.

Yeah.

And that starts getting weird.

And there's a lot of studies that also back that men actually like women who have a little bit of fat on them because it leads to More. Higher predictability for fertility. Right? Not too much. But is that true?

I've heard that, yes. And also our estrogen stores are in our fat. So when we lose ovarian function, it is our fat cells that make the estrogen and they make a form called estrone, which I don't think is as nearly as good as the estradiol that our ovaries make when we're younger. But that is our little. This is my little estrogen depot, my little pooch. I mean, I would love to have my six pack abs back again. But also every time I lose too much weight, my hormones go in the toilet. And I've had patients who got tummy tucks and they show up in their batshit crazy and they're like, what's wrong with me? I'm like, you literally just sucked out all your fat, which was all of your hormonal depot. So. And of course I'm supplementing hormones as I age. But your fat stores are sort of your lifeline to a lot of things. And so keeping that super shredded look, as a woman, I don't think it's great for longevity.

I cannot wait to tell my husband that this is just my anti crazy.

It is.

Well, he's actually always the one that's like, you need to chill on losing weight. I have a question about that though. So I am, I'm getting older and I absolutely do feel, whether it's true or not, that my metabolism is slowing down. Is that real? Are there ways around it? Can we keep our metabolism as we age?

Supposedly the metabolism is not slowing. That's what data shows, which I know, I know, I get, I'm in the same boat. What I think is happening is we're having hormonal shifts and like I said, the estrogen shifts will cause the insulin to shift because insulin's a hormone at the end of the day. And then we're having, I think, well, I don't think, I know as our estrogen starts to shift, our tolerance to stress goes down. So women do not tolerate stress the way men do. Women do not tolerate lack of sleep the way men do. Women do not tolerate, you know, consistent intensity the way women, or, sorry, men do. And so as our estrogen is waning, that gets worse and worse and worse and harder and harder to deal with. And cortisol will make you put fat on in weird places. And then I think thirdly, we're losing muscle mass. And so this is why the lifting is non negotiable. Like it's just Non negotiable. I was telling people a long time ago on the Internet to eat meat and deadlift, when all the influencers were like, just do yoga and go vegan. And it was not popular. And I'm so glad that, you know, folks like Dr. Gabrielle have finally gotten the message out that women are in. Dr. Stacey Sims. It's like, this is non negotiable. If you want to age well and you. It's not about looking hot, it's about not breaking a hip. That is what.

Yeah. You know, you had this quote that I loved, which is, when in doubt, deadlift need to make a big decision but feel unsure. Deadlift. Need to process anger or frustration. Deadlift want to find calm Zen on a chaotic day. Deadlift. Deadlifts fix nearly everything and always bring calm clarity. Why do you like deadlifts so much?

I think it's because it hits that central nervous system hard enough that you get that whomp. And this is where lifting light doesn't give it to you. So I understand that people, I have some pretty serious spinal orthopedic issues and I cannot deadlift the way I used to under the kind of weight that I used to. So I cannot get that wamp the same way. But it's not the same womp that you get from, you know, orange theorying yourself into exhaustion. There's just something about a heavy central nervous system hit. And then in the strong first community, which is like the Russian KGB kettlebell community, they always say, leave one in the tank. Right. And so you get that wamp, but you leave one in the tank and you come out with superpowers. I think I stole that from Tim Ferriss. I think it was Tim Ferriss. I heard a long time ago say when you need to make a big decision. Or he was, I think he was counseling some CEOs and that he was telling their team, like, when you need to make a big decision, go deadlift and then make the decision. So that's my rule. Like if I have to make a big decision about something, I will lift and then I will sleep before I decide anything. And then when I wake up, it's usually the same decision I came to before that.

Yeah.

But I promise myself that I will exhaust my nervous energy. I will sleep and then I will wake up and I will decide.

And that's how you have better decision making, I think.

So.

Three steps. I like that you have talked about the science surrounding who you surround yourself with, what happens depending on the people that you choose to spend time With. Does that matter?

I think so. I think it's. It does. And the data is showing that our microbiomes are contagious. And, well, going back many years, I had my daughter, I was married to. I was just married to, like, a complete loser. And I had a child with him. And I don't mean to speak disparagingly of him, but many years later, the daughter has concluded as well, that was not a good decision. But I got my beautiful daughter on this planet because of it. So I was, I think, five months postpartum, I was super depressed. I went to visit my buddy and, like, two of my best friends in Seattle, and they were my friends from, like, high school and my friends. He was working for Microsoft and he had really risen the ranks and he was making good money. And he said, and I'm sure people have heard this, you can't fly with the eagles if you're hanging out with the. The turkeys, right? And so. Or the turkey vultures or something like that. And I was driving home from Seattle and that's all I could think about and was something that hung with me that who I. And there's been other points in my life where I've had to make decisions and be like, this is not my circle of influence. This cannot be my circle of influence. I have to, you know, you have to be in the room with the people that are more successful. You have to be the dumbest person in the room. You have to be the poorest person in the room so that you can continue to uplevel and be around these people who mirror it and make it look easy.

Right?

Like, I'm sure you started there, too. And you go to some mastermind and you're like, this guy sitting next to me has five businesses and makes a billion dollars a year. And he's not that smart, but he's innovative and he's got this cool thing. So, like, what's my innovative, cool thing? And when it comes to health, our microbiomes are also very contagious. Literally contagious. So if you're living with somebody who has type 2 diabetes, if you're living with somebody who has any number of diseases, we have data showing that that is quite contagious. So you could very well end up with high blood pressure, if they have high blood pressure. And I know it sounds crazy, but the actual microbiome is. Will rub off. My buddy is a microbiome expert, and he was Karan Krishna, and you should have him on your show. He's brilliant. He was sharing that a study a few years ago where one person in the family took an antibiotic and the entire family's microbiome shifted within days. So communicable and non communicable diseases I think are transferable via microbiome. And then also just health. Like how do you, how do you stay motivated? Because it's discipline, not motivation. But if the person you're married to is not also disciplined, we have a problem. Right. We have a mismatch. And so I think it's important. And your friend cohorts and the people you're eating food with and the food choices you're making and the how late are we staying up? Choices we're making and all the choices. Choices.

Well, it's fascinating because I didn't know from a health perspective that the science backs it and that was fascinating. So I went down a little rabbit hole looking at some studies after I saw that quote from you. And what's fascinating is this, it's the same thing for productivity. So there's great studies that show that your productivity increases by about 15% if you sit in a 25 square foot radius of another of a high performer and it decreases by about 30% if you sit next to, to a underperformer.

Wow.

So there's actually like, you know, a, a asymmetric downside to it in some ways. And then the same thing is definitely true for money. So it seems that money is contagious as well. So is divorce. I saw.

Yeah.

Your likelihood of getting divorced increases if you are around people and quite close that get divorced.

There's even data that they don't talk about much anymore. But several years ago, before the healthy at every size movement really took hold there. And I'm not saying that's a improper movement. I think it's more of a hypothesis. I do believe everybody should love their body at every size. I mean, disclaimer. It's just we also cannot glorify pathologic states of being. Right. But the data was going around before it was getting censored. And they showed in one study that if you have even five friends on the Internet, just Internet proximity, not in real person who are struggling with obesity, your chances of becoming obese are exponentially higher. So it's, I don't, you know, it's not just microbiome, it's our brain's mirror. Right. Our mirror neurons in our brain. And who knows? But all that to say I try to surround myself and I'm not talking about leanness or fatness it's not about that. It's about people who just. Just take care of their health and prioritize their health, period. Whatever size that comes in. Right. And that's what's important to me is, like, being around people who actually get it, who also prioritize it. Prioritizing it, I guess, would be the word.

Well, yeah, you know, it's kind of funny, too, because these days, like, if you say, nah, I'm not really drinking right now. No, I. You know, I don't eat those types of food. No, I only do this. You're. You're sort of criticized in some way, shape or form, but if you eat all the junk food, you do whatever you want, you know, you don't work out, there's no criticism allowed. That's actually perfectly fine.

Yeah.

So we've kind of gone up c. Downsy topsy turvy world, and. And we've lost our collective minds. And I think part of, like, what I've learned about getting fit is, like, if you want to get fit, if you want to get financially free, you have to be okay. Setting boundaries for other people to stay out of if they are not going to help you progress.

Yeah.

Because we are just not strong enough as individual, willpowered beings to have willpower all the time against everything. So even if the science didn't show that it's literally not even up to you. It just transfers in your microbiome, even, you know, willpower, maybe. Think about it for a second. Am I going to be healthier at the end of the day if I'm hanging out with you and Gabrielle Lyon? You guys don't drink. You lift every single day. You eat real foods. You have healthy and happy marriages. You work on things that you love and care about. Is it going to be more likely that I will be more of those things? Because you are them and that's all I'm around as opposed to if I'm hanging out with. Like, you talked about the punk rockers that you're with back in the day. They're. Everybody's smoking, everybody's drinking. It's just hard to stand against what the entire tribe's doing.

Yeah. My friends did not generally age well from that time period. I had to. I quit smoking when I was 24. And I remember just, like, them calling me, saying, where are you? You're not at the bar, you're not hanging out. And I'm like, I can't hang out with you guys anymore. Wow. Like, I just can't hang out with you anymore.

Did you say that directly?

Yeah.

Wow.

And then when I got married. So I've been married three times. Not. Not successful in the first two. When I married this husband, I. I literally. And some people will disagree with me. I cut off several of my male friends because they had shown interest in me in the past at some point, Whether I'd been friends with them since we were, like, teenagers or not. And I was like, I just. I don't. I can't have any of those things in my life, not when I want this life. So I cut people off. And I. Maybe it's because I'm an Aquarius and I'm good at it, but if. If somebody's not showing that they're. It's not that I need them to be doing the same thing as me or that I even need them to help me get somewhere. It's just we need to be in alignment as we move through life together. And the older I get that. And you'll experience this, too. Your circle gets much tighter as you get older. Because you just have to. Less tolerance for bullshit, period. And it's just easier to be like, there's nothing here. It's not that I need them to serve me, but it needs to be reciprocal. Something needs to be, you know, an upside for me to stay in that friendship. And so I'm a big fan of just, like. Especially during COVID and those days, I was like, just. If these people are torturing you to do something you don't want to do. Or to participate in some grand experiment that you don't want to be a part of, then like them. Yeah, that's not that hard. I love that these are not your friends. You know, my husband's made it really clear for me. I'll say, you know, my friend, blah, blah, bl. And then this happened. He's like, that's not a friend. And so just learning what those definitions are. He's like, that might be an acquaintance, but that person definitely doesn't have your best interest at heart. I just read a study yesterday that women who encourage you to cut your hair off are actually. And I didn't read the whole thing. I read the abstract. Basically, they are seeing you as competition in mating in the mating world. So they are encouraging you to cut your hair off to be less valuable, perceived as. So, like, basically it was like, if your girlfriend's telling you to cut your hair off, she's not your friend kind of thing. Which, as a girl who spent her whole life with short hair, I'M like a short haired girl by nature. I don't know if I entirely agree with that because like I am in my power and sassy when I have short hair. But there is. That was an interesting take on it.

I actually agree with it. I don't even need to see the science on that. I think if somebody else is telling you to cut. Well, especially if you're, you know, if you're single dudes just like chicks with long hair typically.

Yeah.

By and large, statistically there's a thing.

Yeah, yeah.

It's just whatever. And so that's hysterical. So one great red flag for friends is do they tell you to cut your hair or not? Well, girls are weird.

Yeah, girls are weird. Girls. Have you noticed that it doesn't ever go away, even if they're your best friend. There's just this weird low key resource guard. I think we're evolutionary built. We're built for that. Women are built to resource guard because they're looking for the viable males in the population that will give them good offspring and also protect them. And there's less of those than there are women who are fertile. So there's. I think it's just evolutionary that we.

Yeah, that actually tracks. It makes me feel a little bit better though. As I got, I've gotten older, I've gotten a little bit more comfortable saying like, I feel jealousy. That happened the other day. I have a wonderful friend, Vanessa Van Edwards, who's on the Internet too. She's one of my dear friends, I adore her. And she's hyper talented, she's incredible. And she got this opportunity and my immediate reaction was jealous jealousy. It was like immediate. It wasn't. I was excited for her. It wasn't this. It was really, why'd she get that, not me? And then I was like, ew, yuck, gross. I hate that. That was my immediate reaction. And then, you know, I thought about it. I'm like, why would I, why am I jealous of her? And I was like, well, because she's really in what I call like flow. Like she just, you know, she's in this period in her life which I have envy about, which is where like things come to her and she's kind of aligned things in her life, how she wants it and she's flowing. And some days I feel like I'm grinding, you know. And so it's really an envy of like the decisions that she's made, some of the choices. And so I struggled with that for a minute and then I called her and I was like, I have to tell you something weird this happened to you, and I'm now very excited for you. But I was jealous at first, and I just wanted to tell you that, like, I'm so happy for you, and I'm sorry. I felt a moment of jealousy about that. And, like, you're going to crush it. It's going to be amazing. And now the story I'm telling myself is, like, you doing that means that I get to do that more. But I would feel like a weird friend if I didn't call you and say, ugh, I had this gnarly thing I felt. And now I'm trying to move through it, but I think it's also, like, acknowledging that we probably all get that, you know? And I called another friend of mine, Kim, and told her about it, and she was like, cody, every time I go into a bookstore and I see, like, my five friends who have bestselling books up there, I go, fuck, why didn't I write a book? You know? She goes, I feel that all the time. And so I think it's really nice that we're honest. Like, you can be honest with your friends. I felt a little jealousy because that is so cool, that thing that you're doing. But you're right, it's probably actually genetic. It's.

I think it's evolutionary.

It's evolutionary. That's the right word.

I had a friend recently, I was talking to, and I was telling her how completely dialed in. I saw her business, and I. How I was jealous. Like, straight up, like, your landing pages are beautiful. Your, you know, your copy's beautiful, your ads are converting. Everything's so beautiful.

And.

And I'm over here, like, throwing shit at the wall, hoping it sticks. And sometimes it sticks, and I make a million dollars, and sometimes it doesn't stick. And it's just. I just had, like, an abysmal launch happened that did not convert, and I was like, I clearly missed the mark on that. And she. She just looked at me in shock and she's like, I've been so jealous of you all year. Like, you're always on all these podcasts, and you've been doing all this stuff, and I'm like, girl, it's wearing me out. Yeah, like, being on planes and, you know, and you're off in Aruba on vacation and, like, doing all this. You look great in a bikini. And I'm over here with, like, like, cortisol puff, you know? And so it's just one of those moments where we both Just had the complete opposite. Read on. Yeah. You know, so.

But it helps when you say it out loud, which is, in a weird way, you know, less gossiping and more, like, acknowledgement of a real feeling that is true and honest. And. And I think it's helpful when people hear people who are kind of successful in one way or the other share it, too, because they're like, oh, it's not just. So many times you listen to a podcast, you're like, they seem to have it figured out. Cool, I'll just go, you know, grab my bag of Cheetos and listen to Netflix and, like, fuck this whole thing. So I like that we get to be honest about it.

I think it's. The quote I heard, I love is, look for the expanders and then thank them. And so the minute I heard that, I immediately texted Gabrielle and I was like, thank you. Like, I see her and I just think, oh, more is possible. Yeah, and I see you, too. And I'm like, more is possible. Like, there's. There's levels to this video game, so it's just a matter. And you don't have to hit all the levels. And also their season. Yeah, right. And there's seasons to rest, and there's seasons to pull back, and there's seasons to push and grind. It's just like the gym. You can't grind all the time.

No.

And you can't go metabolic all the time. Like, there has to be windows here.

A hundred percent. You know, the other thing that I wanted to talk to you about is talking about other things that happen to women. And then I want to get to something that's applicable to everybody. But is there data that shows lately that it is harder for women to get pregnant than it has been before because it feels like that our fertility.

Rates are in the toilet? Yeah, we're in trouble. I think we're going extinct, honestly, as a species.

What's happening?

It's a lot of things, and I can't say with, you know, certainty, because that's not entirely my wheelhouse. But I was seeing it early on in practice. I got licensed in 2008, and I was seeing it in practice early. A lot of young women coming in having issues. The way it's handled is weird. They give you drugs to get your eggs to basically shoot out, you know, or your ovaries to shoot out an egg. And there's a lot, if you look at animal husbandry, they really have an appreciation for, like, hypothyroidism being the cause of infertility and, you know, low progesterone can be a contributor to holding on to that pregnancy. And so that is the way I've always approached it is making sure just to optimize a woman's, you know, get the toxins out of her life, get her moving, deal with her metabolic dysfunction and then thyroid and progesterone. But I think we're in a whole different world now at this point with the, you know, the intervention of 2021, I think is a potential factor. We have data on that. I'm not making it up. I'm not trying to Fear Monger. And then we've got abysmal fertility in men. We've got, you know, plummeting testosterone rates, so their swimmers are not swimming so well. And I think overarching is this metabolic dysfunction that I've been trying to beat the drum on for a long time. And it was not sexy. And thank God, you know, Dr. Casey means came out with her book and people are pay attention now. But I have been trying to get people, my mentor told me, keep your waist circumference in check at all costs and lift weights, like, do not let the metabolic dysfunction get you. And we're seeing it in younger and younger and younger. I mean, children with severe metabolic dysfunction. And that does not bode well for fertility because a body that is metabolically compromised is not going to want to reproduce.

Yeah.

So I think we're in a pickle. And then I'm hearing from my friends that are your age telling me that all their girlfriends are getting, you know, ivf.

All of them.

Which is crazy to me.

Yeah. I would say I have about 15 of my girlfriends who have done it naturally. Everybody else. Yeah. And maybe even 10 if you include, like, turkey basting or whatever that's called. Is that the scientific term? I think so.

So get it up there. Exactly. Lay back and get it done. That's crazy.

Yeah. And these are women, and not all of them are women who work who might have, like, more stress. It's sort of across the gambit. And I would say from ages like 30 to, let's call it 41. You know, I'm seeing all of them struggle with it, by and large. I mean, I have a couple girlfriends that are on like, their seventh, eighth, ninth IVF round.

Oh, my God. And that does terrible. That's the problem is that hormonal load that these women go through is. Is just wreaking havoc on their metabolic health. So they're becoming less and less and less fertile through the process. Of ivf. It's so bizarre.

Yeah, but the wild thing is that why don't doctors talk to women about that? Why do they just go, you can't get pregnant. Your. Your blood level's fine. The swimmers are fine, ish, whatever they think fine means by average today. They don't really check for thyroid stuff. They don't ask at all about what your health is otherwise. And then they just tell you, let's begin ivf. Why?

Because that's their hammer. And that hammer is profitable. It's their hammer, you know, like every, every doctor is going to have their hammer. My hammer in my practice was needles. I was like, let's stick a needle in it. Let's, you know, let's see what, what's. What can we change in the tissue? What can we change in your immune response if we inject it? You know, chiropractors adjust, naturopathic doctors give supplements. You know, it's their hammer. And so orthopedists are gonna do orthopedic surgery and, you know, rehab docs are gonna rehab you all day. And it's. I think we're seeing. Actually, the cool part in the last 10 years is I'm seeing a lot less turf wars and a lot more doctors coming together. Especially since 2020, it was very clear there was like team Freedom and everything else. And so that's been very cool because a lot of people have come over to the functional medicine side because they've seen like, wait a minute. The system is. They lied to us. They've been. I'm like, welcome. They've been lying to us for a long time. Right? And so, like, it didn't. You know, I knew 20 years ago that big pharma was quite corrupt. So over here, I think we started melding more. And I'm hoping that that translates, but I don't know. I'm concerned. I think in most countries in the world, what I have seen is that there's not even a population being born to replace the population. So we are at a certain point, there's a critical. There's a critical point where there's of no return. And I think South Korea has definitely hit it and there's other countries and the US is on the precipice, but we're.

Japan's approaching.

We're a train wreck of health here and we have exported it out.

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Yeah, yeah.

Remember when we all thought Elon was crazy because he said that we needed to increase the population control, and you probably didn't. You probably realized that was real, and now it's like, no, Elon was right. We should be having more babies. And actually that we shouldn't be doing what the World Health Organization was telling us, which was actually decrease populations.

Yes. All my girlfriends who did not participate in the intervention of 2021 and seem to be having babies very easy. Like, all my closest girlfriends are breeding. Like, every time, I swear to God, they get out of that gauntlet of breastfeeding and everything, and all of a sudden they're like, tina, I'm pregnant again. And they're all. But they're all walking the walk, right? They're all living very healthfully. I'm like, have as many babies as humanly possible. We need you. Like, we need that. That's what we need. Like, the healthy, vital, natural. Like, keep going. You know, if you're. If you're happy with it and you're having fun, keep going.

Well, you know, what I like about you is you're honest about, you know, corrupt practices in big pharma. You will say very head on that there were interventions you didn't like in medicine that you thought were systematically wrong even, and that you think that there's a massive fertility crisis as engineered, you know, maybe by the external environment, but also how doctors are handling it. But then you also have some really interesting take on GLP1s, or as many people know it as, you know, Ozempic. And so what is your take on this drug or series of drugs? Are they bad? Are they good?

So they're peptides. And when I realized that they were peptides, I immediately got more intrigued because a peptide is just a string of amino acids. And you were saying your husband likes peptides. A lot of people, you really can't age into middle age and be active and fit and not at some point, come around to peptides because you end up in pain and you end up with injuries. Right. And so the peptide community is really expanding. I think we're finding, you know, ease of execution with a lot of these oral forms of different peptides. BPC157, TB500, these, you know, wolverine peptides. There's all kinds of different peptides out there. And peptides by nature insert themselves. They're just strings of amino acids that are peptide bound together to make peptides. And the strings of peptides are just proteins. That's the complexity of it. That's where it gets. And so peptides insert themselves where they need to go and they do their magic. It just so happens that these peptides are over here in the big pharma bucket. I think it's because of the way that they are administered, you know, injection wise. And so I started researching them because it was, what, when was it? A couple summers ago. And there was just spring. Summer. It was everywhere I looked. There was so much hype about it. And the weirdest part was the entire functional medicine community was it was all sounding very propagandized, like in 2020, you know, immediately my ears perked up and I'm like, this sounds like propaganda. And indeed, you know, here we are. So it was the same kind of thing. I was this clickbaity nonsense. I was seeing mainstream media and then I was hearing the functional medicine and the medical freedom community also preaching the same message. Like, when do those two align? Yeah, that was weird. So immediately I was like, this smells sus. So I start looking into it and I find stacks of data showing from tip to toe, really amazing regenerative healing and anti inflammatory properties, really potent anti inflammatory properties to these peptides. They're not just working by decreasing your stomach motility. They're not just making you feel fuller, longer. They're not just shutting down your appetite in your brain. That's not where it ends. They actually are healing metabolic pathways, which the crux, in my opinion, the crux of most modern diseases is metabolic dysfunction. And we were all to some degree. I mean, if, if 94% of U.S. adults are metabolically compromised, then that's 94% of your listeners. Maybe yours are a bit better because, you know, maybe our listeners of our pods are more educated. But generally speaking. And so I don't, I don't know what I think part of it was just me being. I tried to make a podcast about it and come out and talk about it. And the pushback I got was so fierce and Ferocious. And it was very reminiscent of 2020, when I was telling people to eat meat, go outside, lift weights. You don't need to be a sitting duck. Like, viruses aren't. There's a high. You know, there's a high success rate of getting through all of these things. If you go into it with good metabolic health and you start taking. And even small steps today will translate into more potent and, you know, robust immune response. And it was very much like that. And I was like, this is weird. Even the bottom. I was getting the same kind of bot. You've probably gotten a lot of bot messages. You know them when you see them, right? And you go look at the profile, and you're like, this is a bot. So I'm getting this parroted response. Just eat less and move more. Just eat less and move more. And I'm like, no, I didn't mention weight loss. I was talking about Parkinson's. No, I didn't mention weight loss. I was sharing a study about this. And they just kept coming in. The functional medicine community got pissed at me. I went on Dr. Mark Pyman's podcast to debate Kali means. He wouldn't listen. He was yelling over the top of me. It was very, very polarized of a topic. And I was like, what have I stumbled into here? And I'm so insubordinate. I just kept pushing. The more they push back on me, the more I, you know, I'm just like that. I'm like, oh, you want to go? I'll go, okay, so. And I will go all like. My favorite game is just obliterating people with data. So I'm like, oh, I got mountains over here, and I can quote them. And I don't mean to be. That's not.

I love this.

That's probably my pathology.

Yes.

But that's. Yeah, it's like, all right, let's go. And the more I pushed forward, I got a lot of heat, but I started getting people listening. And then I started, you know, I've got a decent. I don't have a following your size, but I have a decent size following. And I started getting hundreds and now thousands of messages from people saying, thank you so much. These peptides have changed my life completely. And I am. I have been living in so much shame. I can't talk about it with my family. People who really did need it for type 2 diabetes, metabolic dysfunction, weight loss, which was not the conversation I was trying to have. I was trying to share out the neuroregenerative, the cardiovascular, the, you know, all of the other benefits and the different organ systems that I was seeing. But everybody wanted to talk about weight loss. And these folks were messaging me saying, you know, I was terrified. So and so terrified me. So and so, influencer terrified me. The media terrified me. My doctor's been trying to get me to go on it. I finally did. And oh my gosh, my life has changed. And oh my gosh, I'm fertile now. And oh my gosh, my depression is gone. And oh my gosh, all my pain is gone. And oh my gosh, my po. You know, this one woman messaged me this wonderful message. Older woman who had her metabolic health completely obliterated by chemotherapy treatment and cancer treatment. And she's in her 60s and the weight gain was putting her at higher risk for the cancer coming back. Right. Because obesity is a standalone risk factor for multiple types of cancer. And she said, you keep going. This was early on. She's like, you keep going. Because I went on these and here's my story. And so one woman messages me and says, I finally could go on rides at Disneyland with my kids. And so I wasn't trying to be the weight loss Warrior for GLP1s. I wasn't trying to defend Ozempic for weight loss. But it's turned into that on a lot of these podcasts because some of these hosts really want. That's the conversation they want to have. But I think at the end of the day, there is nuance. Oh, and the best part, the part that really got me intrigued, besides the neuroregenerative and anti inflammatory impacts on the brain and its impacts on pain and its impacts on our immune system and the protective. When I started talking about the data that I found from 2021 on the protective mechanism of semaclutide against Covid, I got deplatformed at 232,000 off Instagram. And there's data that came out last year showing it's correlative, it's not causative, but showing potential protective benefit against cancer. This is all data that's published. And things got a little heated at that point. I think I got in the crosshairs of big Pharma, I don't know. But all of this to say I think there's extreme potential for alcohol abuse syndrome, addiction, anything that's feeding, anything that's going off that dopamine dragon, as I call it, those dopaminergic pathways are impacted. And we've now got all the data to support everything I was either had found or was speculating or had only had animal data on. We now have human data on most of it. And I just think there's a place for them and I think that they need to be done appropriately like any other peptide. And I don't think it's a monotherapy like take high doses. Good luck. I think obviously lifestyle is always number one and I've been preaching metabolic health since day one, so I don't know how that message has gotten skewed. I'm not a big pharmacial. I may go to the fucking gym and eat enough protein and get your shit together person. And then we have tools and I'm gonna use all the tools that I want to use that I have accessible to me and I can prescribe in Oregon. So I'm going to use my prescription abilities. We have no problem. I was thinking about in the shower this morning like somebody in the Maha movement was saying something about how they prefer food over big pharma. And I was like, this is really choice coming from. I'm not bashing the Maha movement. It's just, it's a generalized statement I'm making. It's really choice to me that people are okay with having their, you know, thyroid hormone compounded or their hormone replacement or cause. I could make an argument that most hormonal issues, aside from ovarian failure at menopause, most hormonal issues are lifestyle in nature. Like we burn out our thyroids, we burn out our hormones when we're younger. And I could also make an argument that folks need for high blood pressure medication and statins are also lifestyle. I could make those arguments all day, but we don't vilify those people. And then my best part was last night I see a huge influencer who has been bashing on a doctor who's been bashing on GLP1s and Ozempica for a year on every podcast he could get himself on. And then he does a frickin reel on the benefits of BPC157 because you can buy it in a pill and he can sell it to you.

Oh, I saw that one actually.

And I'm like really? I commented on it. I'm like, that's interesting because I know of a peptide that you've been bashing on that's also anti inflammatory healing and regenerative. But that one's not okay. It doesn't fit the storyline.

Well, I think that's the interesting part. It's like when we become these like mono thinking individuals where we label ourselves anything, whether it's Maha or whether it's pharma or whether. And, and we cannot deviate from our cultural group. I think we get into a big problem that's huge. So I, I never really trust someone who hasn't pushed back against not only the other side, but their side because you have to be willing to do both in order to have like a reasonable rational debate it. Now, when you got deplatformed, what, why do you think that happened?

Like, well, that was the month that Eli Lilly released their vials. So they had. Zepbound is the brand name for the. So we've got Semaclutide which is made by Novo Nordisk and Semaclutide comes in Ozempic or Wacovi. Yeah, Ozempic is FDA Approved for type 2. WeGovy is approved for weight loss. Weight loss. On the Eli Lilly side we have Manjoro and that would be. Manjoro is for type 2, FDA approved. And Zepbound is their version. Same thing, same peptides. They're just. Well, these two are different, but you get what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're just approved for different things. They came out with their vials that month, actually that week, I think, and they had sent a lot of cease and desist letters to the telemedicine companies, the compounding pharmacists, the many doctors who were prescribing compound. They really have. And Novo Nordisk and Eli Lilly have been pushing very hard against the compounded. And at that time I have been proposing microdoses or a more personalized dosing strategy I think would be a better term. And meaning that the starting dose, even if you're dealing with type 2 diabetes or obesity and that's what you're using it for, I think the starting dose in many cases can be too high and non tolerable to many people. And so if you do want to escalate somebody up, up to those therapeutic doses, then consider, you know, big pharma, consider a lower dose. People shouldn't have to lay on the couch for a month vomiting profusely to onboard a medication or a peptide. Right. But on the other side, I was talking about using very potentially like for someone like yourself who's metabolically very optimized, you lift weights, you do all the things, right? You get your sleep, you get your protein in, you do all the things. If you were coming to me saying, you know, I've got this neurologic issue or I've got any number of things, PCOS fertility issues. We are allowed to use things off label. And so in those cases, my husband has high blood pressure and he's got cardiovascular disease in his family. So in those cases we would use these peptides potentially preventatively or in very minuscule doses because you would not tolerate usually anywhere near the standard starting dose. And anyway, all that to say that week everybody was getting letters and I got deplatformed. So I speculate, I do not know, I don't have any proof, but I speculate. I kind of got caught up in the crosshairs there, I think because I did have a girlfriend who has a decent sized account who comes out and says very like she tells you how to dose, where to get it, you know, not even prescription. Like she's making claims that I think were way riskier than anything I would ever say publicly or even on the Internet for that matter. And. And she got suspended that week as well, her account. And when she, she was allowed to appeal, I was not. And when she appealed, she was allowed to find out who reported her. And it was Eli Lilly. And it was the day after my account went down.

I didn't know you could do that.

Well, they didn't give me any option. I was just gone. Interesting.

I got a guy. Next time if I see you, I.

Literally asked everyone I knew. I'm like, somebody has to know someone at Meta, you know who I think knew someone at Meta, I think it might have been Jen Cohen. I don't know if you know Jen Khan. She's a cool chick too. I owe her a lot, I think. Anyway, that was all crazy.

What's crazy? So basically to understand it's. They don't want you recommending these non prescription. It's like a. It's like a white label versus their Eli Lilly label. And so they're basically saying, you can't do this other thing over here that's not ours.

I don't think they want compounding pharmacies. And I never really was like, however you can access it. In fact, there's a paper that came out this.

Because compounding pharmacies don't use Eli Lilly's formula, so they don't have to pay them licensing, correct? Wow.

Yeah, that's correct.

So because if I understand this correct, like what do they have that is patented in this? Like, what are compounders not allowed to use or allowed to use?

I don't know all the details. I know that there's 503A and 503B in the compounding world. And I, again, I'm not a compounding pharmacist, so I'm not an expert in this, but there is a, a clause that came into being in the early 2000s or 2000s and teens. Yeah, it was like 2013, I think it was when I was in practice that compounding pharmacists could fill the need on a shortage. Interesting. And that's a 503B and I don't know if those are more identical to the brand name or not, but these two peptides have been in shortage for a long time. And so 503B compounding pharmacies were filling that need, need. And now there's big lawsuits going on because supposedly they're at a shortage and it's a whole thing. I don't pretend to follow it all completely but, or understand it all, but now it's going to go back to 503A which is less. There's, there's less oversight on 503A. So them pushing against this compounding might be pushing it into even a less, you know, I don't want to say less safe and that's not the right word. But there's, there's, there's going to be even less oversight on how these are manufactured in different pharmacies than they were before. So I don't know, I'm trying to stay out of the whole mess. I was really excited last, this last month or in March actually. An article came out in the Journal of Diabetes showing that you could actually take the pens because this is the big thing, the brand names are in pens and they're pre filled, they're pre dosed.

Oh, so you can't change the dose.

Yes, that's the problem. I should have said that early on. The compound income in vials and you can pull up what you want so you can have a more personalized approach. So the pens though this paper was published and they were talking about using it in smaller doses. They called. I mean it's like microdosing has made it mainstream and I'm nowhere in the conversation. But that's okay because I really, I'm not talking about it for weight loss, I'm trying to talk about it for other things. But they came out with this paper showing microdosing for type 2 diabetes. You can start people at a lower dose and you can actually use this pen click method with the brand name pension. So that should make big Pharma happy because their product is still being used but depending on how. And they have a whole chart in the Study. Anyone can go look it up. I can give you the link to put in the show notes. There's a whole chart on how to use the pen click method to get the appropriate dosage. If somebody can't tolerate the dose or if somebody needs something more personalized.

Yeah, which is brilliant because I have some friends that, you know, by all intents and practices, they probably did need help from some sort of. Of GLP1, I guess they're called.

Yeah.

And so. But they got so sick from the first usage that, yes, they started losing weight, but if we already think that GLP1s might cause some lean muscle mass and then they're so sick they can't function or weightlift or do anything else, that's gotta exacerbate it. Yeah, interesting. So. So are these things then something that you get stuck on for life? Like does this become another type of just lifetime drug that's great for pharmaceuticals and not great for individuals?

That's a good question. And I think that people don't understand the functional medicine approach versus the allopathic approach. In allopathic medicine, you have a condition, the standard of care is to prescribe X, Y or Z drugs for said condition. This is why doctors aren't MDs, traditionally trained are not keen on running a bunch of functional lab tests because they're responsible legally for whatever comes up on that lab result. Result. Okay. So they need to prescribe based on standard of care, whatever drug is appropriate that has been deemed the standard of care. You show up with high blood pressure, they must put you on a blood pressure medication.

Wow.

If they're going to go. It depends on what state they're in. Because some boards are a little, you know, more rigorous than others. But like in Oregon, for instance, MDs don't do well prescribing desiccated thyroid, which is a prescription. But naturopathic doctors can. MDs don't prescribe ivermectin for Covid. But naturopathic doctors, doctors could. Because naturopathic doctors, we are not under standard of care. We're under best practices. There is a standard. We can't go rogue and do random shit. But we also. So we actually have to know more. We have to know what the standard of care is. We have to present it to the patient, and then we have to present them all our alternatives, which are the other options that we would bring to the table. So anyway, all that to say the way that I do things with peptides in general is I cycle them. We cycle them. We go on and off of them. We use them as a tool for a time. I do that with drugs too though, like Prozac for instance. It was never studied long term for depression. It was studied to be implemented as a. Basically like an emergency shoot. When you're going through a terrible time period, you use it during a window. Maybe you have a divorce or a death in the family and you're devastated. These are window. And I like to think of most drugs as hormones we generally tend to need to stay on. But I cycle those too. So I think it depends on the individual. I think there are people living with the. I do believe there is a disease of obesity. I don't think every obese person has the disease and I don't think everybody with the disease is obese. But I do think there is the disease of obesity and I do think that for some of those folks, yes. But I don't think that anybody even has the right to start a GLP one if they also aren't going to the gym and lifting weights and they're not also hitting their macros, their protein macros. So my argument from day one has been it's not the peptide's fault, it's a dosing and management issue. Yeah. Like, and I hate to diss on the doctors because we all went to medical school and racked up tremendous, you know, huge bills, not because we were waiting to get rich. I. There are not rich doctors. Do you know any rich doctors?

No. There might be like compounding pharmacy owners, some of them.

Yeah. But there's, you know, there's a few like plastic surgeons, et cetera, that are doing well, but medicine doesn't. Most people don't go into medicine to get beat. They're not greedy. We don't give up a huge chunk of our life.

No, you can't get rich quick either at it. Yes, you could get rich very, very slowly over decades.

Right. So anyway, all that to say people seem to think that greedy doctors, I hate to throw them under the bus, but many of them are getting into areas that maybe aren't their strongest wheelhouse. And so they know nothing about how to manage or help somebody with metabolic dysfunction. And yet they're throwing peptides at them and they're doing what the studies tell them to escalate the dose quickly and aggressively. And so these people are getting put on these high doses very quickly, which I think at the end of the day is going to be catastrophic because the muscle loss, and I've said this in the past, I want to add something here yes. When you put anybody on a low, low, low calorie diet and you severely calorically restrict or you do gastric bypass and you malnourish them, basically they're going to have lean mass loss and it's on par with the percentage. Percentage. It's the same. I will say though, These peptides, these GLP1s, they rev that AMPK pathway, which I said earlier is catabolic. So I think at the end of the day, these folks that are on high doses that are doing nothing else and are not doing any lifestyle changes are going to find themselves perpetually on them for the rest of their life. And if they ever go off of them, they are now like melted candles. They've got very severe wasting that has occurred throughout their lean tissue and including their muscle mass, which is your metabolic engine and it's a disaster. And now they're sitting in a very brittle diabetic state versus so it's, they're masking and they're, dare I say, overdosing. But that might be the problem. Interesting.

You know, is it, I don't know.

If that answers the question.

It does. And opens up so many more. Am I dumb for not knowing that standard of care meant that doctors really have to do it this way or they basically open themselves up to risk? Is the way that I take correct? Is that like common knowledge?

No.

And so because I often think with doctors and to your point, I'm giving them a hard time, like I'm like, why don't you tell people to eat healthier? Like why are you putting my dad on this blood pressure medicine non stop for 40 years and he has a big tummy me and not telling him like stop with, he loves Mexican food. Like stop with this. Get to the gym. You know, you need to be lifting more. Why does that never come up? But I think it makes a lot of sense if actually there is a perverse incentive for them. And it's not even the doctor's fault. It's, it's not that they want to get a kickback from a drug company all the time.

There's no kick. And that's the other thing. I don't, I, maybe I'm wrong here, but I was in practice for 10 years in a big clinical setting and, and nobody came knocking with a check when I wrote a prescription. There's no, you know, there might be companies that are courting doctors, maybe sending them on trips or, and they have to disclose this too. You can legally look that up, but it's not like you write a prescription and you get a. That's not. And maybe there's some off record deals going on I don't know about. But no. And also they are time constrained. So if they're. Back in 1995, when I was working at a hospital in Portland, I was an undergrad, I wanted to be a doctor and this is why I went ND instead of MD route. Cause this MD came in and he was a neurologist and we were in the Alzheimer's and dementia clinic doing research. And he said that at that time in 95, if he spent more than seven minutes in a room with a patient, he was losing money. So they can't tell your dad how to eat right. And they're not lifting themselves. They're train wrecks. Most doctors have fatty liver themselves. So they tell you, oh, your labs are normal, you to have some fatty liver, that's okay. It's like, no, it's not okay. Your liver is literally going to be cirrhotic in 10, 20 years. Like this is maybe a little longer. Depends on the person and how much alcohol they're drinking. But it's just bizarro land to me that we've got, you know, mediocre health folks. But to their defense, their lives are incredibly stressful. So there's a lot going up against doctors and we really do trash on them way too often and I don't love it. They're, they're, they're wheels in a car or whatever the term is, you know. Yeah, they're just in a system that is, I believe, quite corrupt, misguided.

Well, it's interesting, it's close to my heart right now because my brother has just really been struggling with. He got his gallbladder out when he was like 13 or something and he has, he had like cyclical vomiting syndrome and has had all of these health issues. But the answer from, from a lot of medical professionals has been, all right, let's put you on anti anxiety medication. Let's put you on an antidepressant. Are you depressed? Let's do this. And I'm like, I just watched the kid drink a Arnold Palmer with half lemonade in it and eat a big thing of meatloaf. Like, could we stop if he's got, if he already can't process stuff, if his gut is messed up, if he's vomiting all the time, should we start with something else? And you know, and, and then, you know, kind of telling him that didn't matter if he drank sometimes.

Yeah.

And you Know, and, and at some point, I, I really feel for like, the families and everybody involved. Because you get to a certain point too with him where I'm like, bud, you're a grown man. This is your path. You're gonna have to figure it out. And I'm here to support you if and when you're ready to listen. But I can't fucking tell you the same thing anymore. And so I bet doctors often are like, listen, I've been telling you to also work out, out for 72 years. You haven't been. So here's the blood pressure medication. So you don't actually die.

Yes.

But also could you do the other things too? Yeah, and I'm sure there's a lot of that going on, but probably, you know, not a lot of us always listen to the doctor.

And it's, it takes time. Patients can get hostile and aggressive. And even people were coming to me as a naturopathic physician in a cash based practice. I did not take insurance, so they knew exactly what they were getting into. Like, they sought me out specifically for that in a town where all the nds take insurance. And they still would fight me tooth and nail. And they would get mad at me, hostile angry if their labs showed up. All of a sudden they're diabetic and I'm like, dude, I've been telling you for 10 years what was coming. And then suddenly here it is. And like grown men getting up out of their chair, yelling at me, terrifying me, because they're so mad. Like, it's crazy. Medicine's crazy. It's why I shut my practice down. Like, I take clients and patients very rarely these days because it's just, you go in circles, you know, it's online's one thing. I'm beating the drum constantly repeating myself like a robot because I'm trying to get it to land and I'm trying to find new ways to say it so it'll land. And that's frustrating enough because then you're just dealing with, you know, ignorant trolls. But in clinical practice, when someone's paying you a clip of money, yeah, you're not the cheapest doc in town, and they're still yelling at you when you're telling them to go to the gym. And, you know, know it's tough, it's a tough gig. But for your brother's sake, some digestive enzymes, some ox bile, and some hcl would go a long way.

Hcl? You know what?

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Oh, sounds like a real nice surprise.

Exactly. So now I have to get him a gift, but I haven't gotten my bonus yet.

So if we can make it something.

Or really nice, but also not break the bank, that'd be perfect.

How about a keurig for 50% off.

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Gabrielle, too. Yeah, I told him, and he said it sounded gross, and so we're working with him on that. I'm like, it's a pill.

Does he, like, taste anything? Does he, like, like carnivory stuff? Does he like that scene at all?

You know what? I think at this point, sadly, he's at that point where, you know, when you just don't have any other options and your health has gotten to a level where it is the only thing that matters. And you realize that everybody else can have a hundred problems, but you only got one. That's where he's at.

Yeah.

And so with him right now, it's really, all right, man. Like, this is your moment. And it's a bummer that I haven't known how to get through to him prior to this, but I think he's at that moment where he's willing to listen. And so, you know, I'd be curious. Your take, too. Have you found, like, if somebody is at that point where they're like, God, I'm. I'm here, and it's hard, and I know I have to make massive health changes, what would you tell them? How do you get somebody to even start truly prioritizing their health when they realize that they have no other choice but to.

It comes down to pain and vanity or vanity. So when people hit a wall on one of those, they usually will be. I mean, I had to. I've had to multiple times. I recently got back some Very concerning labs. I knew I was burning the candle at all ends and I was like, I'm fine, I'll be okay. And then I get my labs back and I'm like, oh, my thyroid's on fire. It's not okay, right? I've got to make some severe changes. I've got to restructure my business and restructure my life. It's one step at a time. I really do think the answer's in the gym though. I think the, the ritual of committing to that process of going three days a week, it doesn't have to be five days a week, it's just, I just work, I, I lift three days a week. Going to the gym at a scheduled time or hiring that trainer if you can, I think that's great money invested. If you can hire a personal trainer who knows what they're doing and committing to that process because that process begets the other processes. So when you're training, you will automatically start to reprioritize what you put in your mouth because you work too hard in the gym to sacrifice and, you know, ruin the opportunity for that muscle protein synthesis. So you're like, I'm going to eat better, you hydrate more, you're tired, so you go to bed. You know, you start to make these incremental changes around the one goal of building muscle. And so if getting stronger is the goal physically, and maybe vanity is what's driving it, maybe pain's driving it, but either way, you're not going to get out of here alive or in very good shape if you don't have muscle. So if that becomes, I always, I joke, like the answers in the gym and on your plate. Stage one, like, that's it. My mom, to this day, every time she asked, I have a friend who has this whatever condition, I'm like, mom, what has my answer been for 20 years? Eat more meat and lift weights. I'm like, yes, mom, tell 85 year old Peggy to eat more meat and lift weights. She will feel better.

Why do you think we don't listen to that?

It's too easy. They want sexy, they want the GLP1. I mean, I came out gunning on GLP1s and it wasn't that I was trying to promote GLP1s, I was trying to promote metabolic health. And I was like, hey guys, we have something that might help. Because even with my best intentions at 50 years old, my metabolic health was starting to become compromised because of chronic stress. There's not, you know, there's not much I can do outside. I'm doing the gym, I'm doing the food. I'm doing all the things. And I was starting to have that 15, 20 pounds here. So I found a peptide that can help. And it also helps with my autoimmune disease, and it also helps with my brain fog, and it helps with my mood. Anyway, all that to say I was just putting lipstick on a pig. I was. I was still trying to promote the message of metabolic health, which is all the things. Which I know feels daunting for someone like your brother, but just even prioritizing what goes in his mouth.

Yeah.

Because this is the direct route to the chute. You know, like, it's like putting something inflammatory on an open wound. Like, why would you do that? You know, you wouldn't put acid or salt. I mean, maybe salt will dry it out, but you wouldn't put acid on your open wound. And yet, when we have gastrointestinal issues, we're continuing to crush Chick Fil A and wonder what the heck's going wrong. Right. So he has to hit a wall. It has to get really uncomfortable for him. And then he'll just inherently know what to do, because we have instincts, and humans have instincts that tell them what's right and wrong. It's just a matter of, like. You know, the other night, I was like, damn it, I can't eat corn. I know. I can't eat corn. And those damn masa chips. Have you tried those?

Delicious.

They sent me, like, a whole package, and I started crushing them, and I'm getting puffy and bloated. And that's right when I ran my labs and all my inflammatory markers are elevated, like, just barely.

Yeah.

And I was like, it's the freaking corn chips I've been feasting on. I can't. My daughter's like, mom, we don't. We can't eat corn. Corn makes me break out. It makes you crazy. And I was like, I know, but they were so yummy.

Well, I think that is the process. It's also. I mean. And I always thought it was a little crazy in the beginning when some of the presidents would talk about how they just wear the same thing every day, and they lay it out at the end of the day and they put it on in the morning. Because I think this thing of decision, fatigue is so real. And so even a doctor who knows all the reasons why not to do something specifically for your body at the end of the day, you're tired, you're hungry, you don't have any willpower left and the decision fatigue kicks in. And I think it's a good reminder in being human. And maybe my last question for you is, I think there's probably a lot of people out there too, who, like, you're listening right now and you recognize your family member sounds like my brother or it sounds like, you know, some of your patients. How do you support somebody who, when you don't want. How do you support somebody when you want them to be healthier than they are willing to want for themselves?

You. All you can do is model it. But I really have firmly come to that conclusion because I have family members too. People don't believe me, but I have very close family members who you wouldn't believe the health issues they have that are so solvable with lifestyle. And they just won't listen to me. They only come to me when there's an emergency and then I have to bail them out. And then I'm pissed because I'm like, if you had been doing any of the things I had been telling you to do, we wouldn't be in this position right now. So the best that I can do, I've realized, is just to model it it and to live it. Because the only way out is through. No one's coming to save you. The government's not going to save you. Your mom's not going to save you, your sister's not going to save you, your doctor's not going to save you. Truly, if you're not putting in the work, especially as we age, especially as that wiggle room becomes less and less and less and the, you know, the faults become glaring. Like the diabetes isn't just mild blood sugar dysregulation anymore. It becomes full born. Now you've got all these other, all this other shit to deal with. You can't pull people out of that. Yeah, you couldn't even pull your husband out of that. I mean, you know, without threat of divorce, sometimes people are struggling. So model it. Walk the talk, be the person, and.

Hopefully they'll come around and do some fucking deadlifts.

It solves a lot of problems.

I know what I'm doing tonight. I don't know about anybody else, but I only deadlift from here on out, basically. I do love the feeling of a deadlift lift though. Even like, even like, you know, if I don't go that, that heavy and I do like, you know, handheld weights, little barbell deadlift, like I'm, I'm into it, so I agree. Okay. The last thing I Wanted to leave with here is, you know, our audience has a ton of, like, high performers in it. So, like, people who just want their life to be better, they want to hit their peak performance. They're listening and wondering, like, what's that, like, little extra that I should do, too? We've talked about a lot of chronic disease, but where would you leave people with if they're already like, I'm doing pretty good. Like, I'm crushing it over here. What studies have you seen or what information would you give to somebody who is out there? Like, I just want to be even better than I am today.

The two biggest things I've. Because that's been predominantly my patient base. The two biggest things would be, number one, keep an eye on your hormones and get them handled before you think you need to. And that is different for everyone that might be in your 30s, that might be in your 40s. But start. Find somebody who's hormone literate and get that handled before you think you need to. Because when it creeps up onto you, it's pretty subtle until you fall off the cliff. And it could be something like Covid or a big stressor or something that throws you off the cliff. And so having that dialed in, I think, is the ticket. I've been on hormones since my 30s, and when people say, you look great, I'm like, I shouldn't look great. I mean, I shared with you how unhealthy I was when I was a teenager. But I think the hormones since the 30s have been little bits here and there. I love the peptides for that as well. So become peptide literate. Educate yourself as best you can, because you're only going to get so far with any practitioner. So you need to have a basic handle on nutrition and fitness. That's a skill you need to learn is how to navigate the gym. And then I think the last thing is really watching your stress, because stress will erode all your best efforts, despite how much intention you're putting into all of the good things. Stress will destroy your metabolism. It will destroy your beauty. I don't drink. I drink very rarely now. And it. Somebody asked me the other day, she said, why'd you quit drinking? I'm like, because it makes me ugly. So vanity has been what? You know, vanity and pain. I live with a lot of chronic pain, too, so I think it's just navigating your life. Because what I see happen is these folks get to their mid to late 40s, and then all of a sudden the wheels start falling off the Car. And if they're, if they don't go into that with muscle and they don't go into that with some semblance of decent eating habits, it can happen very quickly. And so that's that miracle spot of like 45 to 50. Do not fuck around. Start getting serious about, yeah, we gotta let some things go, we gotta reprioritize. But if you want good, I think, you know, good erectile function is, is key. Good libido, good sleep habits, those are markers for good health. If your sleep starts falling apart as a woman, if your libido completely bottoms out, something's wrong, go get yourself handled.

Where are all the best places to follow Dr. Tina?

So I have a podcast I would love for you to come on.

Love it.

Yeah, I have a great podcast I love doing. I'm on Instagram every day.

What is the podcast called?

It's called the Dr. Tina Show. Very original. D R T Y N A. If you go to my website, drtina.com, i've got a free four part video series all about GLP. One's done right where I dive deep into each video and I give you the science on a whole different story you probably haven't heard, which I think everybody should listen to because you will end up with someone you love on these peptides. So you might as well become literate on it. I have a bigger course if people are interested, especially healthcare practitioners. And then I think I'm mostly on Instagram.

Yeah, I like your Instagram videos. I was just going through them yesterday.

Thank you.

Yeah, you know, I mean, what. It's perfectly tailored, bite sized pieces of information, exactly what you need, nothing that you don't. And for somebody like myself in health, that's like, that's what I can handle. That's my micro dosing of, you know, information for help. So thank you so much for being here today.

Yeah, thank you for having me. So fun.

So now you can write a letter to your young self.

It's funny, I was thinking about this the other day. Okay. Dear Tina, don't. I'm gonna cry. Does everyone cry when they do this?

I cried when I did it.

Don't stress so much. Don't starve yourself so much of like everything. Don't. Or do find the gym and learn to use it as therapy. Do seek joy as often as possible. Life is short. Yolo. Love Tina.

I like her too. Thank you so much. We're gonna do something cool with this for you too.

Okay, now you made me cry.

No. Well, thank you for sharing again. It's a reminder. Like, man, we gotta have so much love for those younger versions of us, and we. We don't do it enough.

Oh, I just turned 51, and I was like, I have been grinding for so long. I have not had nearly the amount of fun that I should have had. Like, I, I. I don't have as many years in front of me as I have behind me, maybe. And I need to have some fun. Like, I need to. There was just stress and work and grind and stress and work, and I was like, that's not gonna get me anywhere. No, it's done. Like, I have to actually learn to shut off and enjoy what I built.

Yeah. Well, that sounds like that's the next evolution. Yeah. So next time you come back on the podcast, I'm gonna have to bother you about what fun you've had me.

Accountable.

I'm gonna hold him accountable, too.

Yes.

Dr. Tina, thank you so much.

Thanks so much for having me.

If you liked this podcast today, do me a favor, like, and subscribe. It turns out that even though some of you come back and listen every single week, more than 60% of you aren't subscribed, which means that we don't get to be the best buds on the Internet, learning more from one another about the things that you care about every single day. So I would love for you to be along on our ride, like, and subscribe for the channel. That is how we continue to get bigger and better guests for you. Also, leave me a comment about who you want to have on here next. I read every single one of them. Until next week, guys.