The Motivation Expert: Why You Are Stuck & Not Achieving Your Goals | Rob Dial

Hi, this is the Big Deal podcast and I'm Cody Sanchez. For those of you who don't want to just be rich but free and do what it takes to actually get there. Okay, today we got a man who's all about how do you steal the methods and madness that leads to being a top 1 percenter? How do you get out of your own way if right now you're feeling stuck in your life in some way or another? What can we learn from cognitive behavioral therapy? What can we learn from thousands of of studies on how the brain works and how motivation and mindset works in order to get things done? This is Rob Dial. After working with thousands of clients, after 1600 podcast episodes, we're gonna steal Rob's homework for you today. So without further ado, Rob Dial, you have worked with hundreds, if not thousands of people on mindset, lots of high performers. You in your studies, what have you noticed, like, data wise, are there studies that have changed the way that you thought about how humans think or how top performers think?

How so give me a little more context so I can go into it. What are you thinking?

Like, is there surprising data or data pieces that you found about mindset and the human brain or studies that you found interesting lately you think are worth sharing?

I think the biggest thing is I like to go into the main thing that I work off is like cognitive behavioral therapy, right? And the thing that I think I've been teaching the most recently that's been like hitting the home the most for people is just basically this idea of like negativity bias, which is like, we are wired to be negative. Like, that is the way that it works. And so, like, I don't know any specific data around, you know, like successful people, unsuccessful people. But what I do know is that people inherently are negative. And there's a reason why that exists. The reason why it exists is because, you know, 10,000 years ago, 100,000 years ago, when we were going to be attacked by something, we had to be on guard and look for problems. That's all that we did. So your brain is just this problem solving mechanism. The problem with it now is that modern day, obviously we're not going to be like attacked by a tiger or anything like that. So our brain is constantly looking for what is wrong and in turn it's making problems when problems don't exist. And so the thing that I like to do is if you have a hammer, you want to find a nail. And so if your brain is a problem solving tool, then my goal for Myself and clients that I work with, especially business owners, is bring problems to figure out every single day because your brain wants to do that thing. You know, it's like that's what your brain is designed to do. So people are always like, oh, how do I stop overthinking? I'm like, well, you don't stop overthinking because your brain doesn't stop thinking. Your heart, you don't want your heart to stop because it's made to beat. You don't want your lungs to stop because it's made to breathe. Your brain is made to think. And most of the time your brain will go towards negative because it's trying to solve a problem. So if you're a business owner, one of the best things you can do is wake up in the morning and say, what are the problems that I want to solve today? And see if there's one problem that you can solve today and then just give your brain space. Most people, and I found this consistent with myself and so many other people work too much in their business and not on their business. Like they're so in the day to day. Like I've almost completely removed myself from my day to day, thank God, because I have a, the VP of operations who's helped me with that. She's process driven. So we've removed myself, right? And so my job is to wake up in the morning and she knows we're going to talk about problems in the morning. So we're going to see what are the problems of the day, what are the things that I need to solve for. So if I can solve for X and I'm a visionary, and I know I'm a visionary, then I'm going to go, okay, what is this thing? And then I have to give myself space to just solve it. And so the thing that I find with people that I think is the biggest for business owners is like if your brain's going to go towards a negative towards trying to solve problems, give it problems to find. Otherwise what it's going to do is it's going to show up and say, oh, we've got a problem. Like, you know, we didn't get as much revenue as we needed. My business is going to go out of business. What's going to happen? I'm going to be end up being homeless. I'm going to have to fire my employees. Oh my God, they've got children that they. And it creates its own version of problems versus going, I'm just going to give my brain the problems that it needs in order to get me where I want to go versus send me off down this, like, path. Path of doom and gloom, which is what most business people do.

It's interesting because what they say is, like, if you want to get something done, give it to a busy person.

Yeah.

And this is a perfect example of that. It's like, your world will get small. I have a family member that I just watch their world get smaller and smaller and smaller. And thus somehow their problems get bigger and bigger and bigger. And so these little things that happen every single day, you know, they'll call me and say, like, God, I can't believe the mailman's late today. And you're like, how, in getting fewer problems, did your problems get bigger? It's a weird phenomenon, right? But that makes all the sense in the world because you're not feeding the beast. And so the beast will find something to eat, of course, and it will make it a problem that is probably not even there.

Yeah.

So you get to have like, negative projection or negative manifestation, essentially.

And one of the things that that's big too, is don't give it too many problems a day.

How many you think?

So I read an article like 5 years ago that like, changed my perception on my business. And it was about Jeff Bezos. And he only makes three decisions a day. And so he will sit down and he'll find problems, and he'll make three decisions every single day. But they're like billion dollar decisions versus me. At that point in time, I was like, I need. I got to do 45 things today if every single person. And this is like a simple thing to do with your to do list, Right. Especially for business owners. Wake up. You make your to do list. You figure out exactly when he's be done for the day, Right. Then what you do is you just circle number one, number two, and number three. You take an index card, you write number one down, you write number two down, you write number three down. You throw your to do list away, burn it, whatever is you need to do. Put that in your back pocket, and then only pay attention, those three things. And then just focus on number one, focus on number two after that's done, and focus on number three. If every single business owner got number one done every single day, Monday through Friday, they'd be incredibly successful at the end this year. But the problem is they work from home, and then they're like, well, I've got to do the laundry. So they do the laundry because they just want to check shit off of their to do list versus, like, I don't want to be busy. Because if you're just checking things off, that's when you get done at the end of day and you're like, you worked your ass up. I feel like you got nothing done. Right. Versus, like, I want to be productive. I don't want to be busy. How do you be productive? You cross off, number one, the most important thing, your day, then your second thing, and then your third thing. If you get to those. If you never get to two, don't get to three. No big deal as long as you get number one done. I think that's what people should focus on.

Brilliant. We often, I think, also want to cross things off the to do list that are small because it feels good. Like that endorphin response, that little bit of adrenaline that you get every time you check something off. And yet if you're focusing on the wrong things, who cares? Which is what most people do.

So many people will do something and then add it to the to do list and cross it off. Because it feels good to cross it off.

Oh, really?

Oh, all the time I hear people do this. Yes. No joke. People will be like, well, I just did this. It wasn't my to do list. I'm going to write it down and cross it off to make it feel like I did something.

Wow, that's bizarre. We are weird all the time. Hairless apes running around trying to figure life out. I've heard you and also Jordan Peterson say, if you want to have an incredible life, you have to go through a ton of pain. Do you think you have to go through massive pain to learn anything?

I think that you can't really go through life without some sort of pain. But there's also a difference between pain and suffering. So pain is something that happens to you. Suffering is something that happened to you that you continue to bring with you every single day and kind of have it take the energy from you. So my biggest pain was my father passed away when I was 15 from being an alcoholic and growing up with an alcoholic father and all that comes with it. Would I be where I am now if I didn't have that happen to me? I don't think so. Because the reason why I do what I do now is because I went through all the things I went through. And so I found myself in a lot of suffering because of my mindset. And I know that my dad was in a lot of suffering because of his mindset because his father killed himself when he was 12 years old, and he never overcame it. And so I saw, like, what happened when you don't overcome your pain. And then I also saw, like, other people in my life that were better examples of, like, they overcame their pain. And so I was like, oh, I'm gonna be the type of person overcomes it. So then I started working on myself. And as I started working myself, I got addicted to, like, I wanna teach this to people. I think that everybody has to go through something hard in order to become better. And. And so it can be that something that the universe throws all of our crap at us, or it can be that we actually seek out and try to find some suffering. So it's like there's a principle called applied suffering, where it's like, you actually go and try to figure out ways to suffer. And so it could be, like, going to the gym and, like, forcing yourself to work out is a form of applied suffering. Doing an ice bath is like a form of applied suffering. And so I think that the main thing that pain really shows us is that pain is a stimulus for change. It's like, it is the. If I put my hand on a hot stove, it is my body, my brain saying, something needs to change, and it needs to change immediately. For some people, a heart attack is that change. Something needs to change. Something change immediately. A lot of very successful people that I know have been through a lot of shit, and I think there's a lot of reasons why they become successful. A lot of times people are running from something, and so they bury it in being a workaholic. That's what I did. I was working, like, 110 hours a week to. To run from my trauma with my dad, which is hard because in society, that's like, the only addiction that's actually praised. Oh, my God, you're making a bunch of money, you're successful, and everyone's, like, praising you for it. So I don't think that you have to go through it, But I do find that people who have been through a lot, usually, if they end up using it for good, can actually become extremely successful from it.

There is something to this fact that you can either use your pain towards something forward progressing or you can let it eat you alive.

Yeah.

Have you. Do you think that all entrepreneurs are emotionally fucked up in some way?

No. There might be, like, one or two. That's not. But I've met one. But, like, I think there's a couple things. It's like, what I always go back to every single time is, like, what's someone's relationship with their parents. And, you know, like, I used to always think in my head that in order to. In order for a parent, someone to have something as they get older, that's an issue, the parent had to have screwed them up and been, like, an alcoholic like my father was, or talked down to them or said, oh, I'll only love you when you achieve. Which is some people where it's like, oh, my dad didn't give me attention unless I won a basketball game. And then I got his love. And so people start learning, oh, I have to achieve in order to be worthy of love. And then my best friend had the exact opposite happen where he's super driven, super successful, but his parents are still together. They're the most in love people I've ever seen. And I'm like, where did you get fucked up? Like, where did it come from? Like, there's gotta be something, right? And what he said was, his parents used to always say, everybody loves him, Everybody loves him. So when he was a little kid, he would always hear, oh, everybody loves him. Everybody loves him. Because he was a good little kid and he's fun and all that stuff. And he developed this narrative, like, everybody has to love me. And then. So what he felt to himself was, I have to perform and I have to achieve in order for people to love me. So his parents are, like, very positively affirming to him, which you think would be a good thing. He turns it into, well, I can't show up to this place unless everybody loves me. So then he stopped going places, and he started becoming more of a hermit because of that. And then he felt to himself, like, well, everybody loves me, and if everybody has to love me, well, then I need to achieve. So then he developed this feeling within him of, like, oh, well, then in order for me to be worthy of other people's love, I need to succeed. And then he attached that to money. And so then when he didn't have money, he didn't feel like he was worthy of love. And so there's a whole. I mean, people are very, very complex. Like, life is not hard. Business is not hard. All these things are very simple. But humans, in the way that our world works together, our narrative of ourself and how it intertwines with everything, we're just extremely complex. So, like, he's a great example of great childhood, great parents, very positively affirming. But even the positive affirmation ended up, you know, messing up in some sort of way.

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You have a lot that you've talked about when it comes to I don't think you use the word toxic people, but people that shouldn't be in your sphere. And I've heard you and I think also Robert Greene talk about developing a radar to detect these type of people. How do you determine who should be in your sphere, who should not, and. And who might be sabotaging your success or not?

So I had a friend that categorized them and he said people basically are either their batteries or they're vacuums. So they're either batteries where they give you energy or they're vacuums where they take energy away from you. If you're questioning whether somebody is a battery, like a battery or vacuum, they're probably a vacuum. Like if you're questioning it, you're probably, they're teetering on like taking energy from you. And so like a battery is somebody that you're around. Like there's people that I'm around. I'm sure you do it all the time with what you do where you'll have a conversation and then an hour after they leave you like still have energy from them being there. Even though all of that spending time with them. You should have less energy because you had speaking and you were walking around and you were doing something together. But they literally, there's like a remnants of them still being there. There's still a lot of energy from that. There's some people that are in people's lives that you talk to for like three minutes and you're drained for the rest of the day. And so if you Just think about the person. And just thinking about them makes you feel drained. They're probably somebody who's a vacuum, and they're just. They're time suckers. They're time vampires. They're just taking it from you. And so it's hard because a lot of times these people who are vacuums are people's parents, their sisters, they're their brothers. They're people they're related to. And you're not just going to completely get rid of them, but it's like, how do you start to spend less time with them and then replace them with other people who are better for you? I didn't even realize this until I. Until I wrote the book, when I was like, all right, changing your environment, who you surround yourself with success. When I first moved to Austin in 2012, the guy that I moved in with already had a massive friends group. And I got here, and within, like, a week, I had all of my best friends. And. And I was raging. Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, like, partying, right? It was awesome for a couple years. It was great. And then I decided to start my own business. I decided to start the podcast. And I was like, I'm going to figure out how to make money online. And I was like, I wonder if there's any, like, events. And so I Googled it, and I found Internet Marketing Party. So I went to Internet Marketing Party, and I remember I was sitting there, and the first guy I was talking to was a year younger than me. It was doing 2 million a year. And I was like, you can make that much money online? Like, this is, like, I had no idea that this was possible. And then I started meeting other people. And then I was like, you know what? I'm meeting these people. They're doing a couple hundred thousand. They're doing a couple million. And so then I started hanging out with them. And then we would work together, because being an entrepreneur, especially a solopreneur, is, like, very. You know, you're just alone all the time. And so we would go to each other's houses downtown, and we would work together. And then they would have a launch, and I would see what their launch was. And I was like, oh, my God, you made $100,000 today. I didn't realize you could make $100,000 in a day. And then what started happening was then one of them I became really close with didn't drink. So I started hanging out with him more because he was in my industry, and he's doing, like. He was like, 5 million a year and I was like 200,000 that time. And I was like, I'm gonna hang out with him more. And I stopped drinking and I stopped partying and I started waking up earlier. And just by being around this group of people and everything about me changed. And it wasn't like I consciously sat down. I was like, I need to change this. It was just that the people that I surrounded myself with were different and I just took on the actual, you know, the way that they were. There's a statistic that found that if you have one friend that you're close to become obese, you have a 38% higher chance of becoming obese because we become the people we spend the most time with. And so if you're trying to change, maybe you should look at the people around you and say, like, would I want to trade places with them? And if the answer is no, well, then maybe you should spend less time with them and start getting around people who you do want to trade places with.

Those statistics on the rub off effect of both, let's call fat and fitness and also money, are sort of scary when you think about it because it's the same thing. Like, there's another statistic that shows that like, if you get a group of five people that you spend the most time with and you analyze the bank accounts of those five people, on average your bank account will be the same. And so what's interesting is those five people don't have to be from your geographic area, they don't have to be where you came up from, they don't even have to work at your company with you. It's just, it appears to be there's some contagion to both success or failure, winning or losing. Sometimes it's hard to figure out what is a negative person, who is the negative person, and what's the degree that's allowable before you're 50% less happy and 38% fatter. And all of this. Do you have a way that you think about, okay, if this happens in this many situations or instances, this is a negative person? Or is it the same as the vacuum?

I mean, I think the easiest way I saw a video on it years ago is like, if you have to question whether that person's truly happy for you when you succeed at something, they're probably not the best person to spend time with. Like, if you bring, if you're, if you're hesitant to go tell them about something that you just succeeded with, or you're hesitant to tell them about your Dreams because they want to shit on them. They're probably not the most positive person to be around. I loved watching the Olympics because as soon as somebody succeeds, they look into the crowd to find the person they love the most. Right. Like, success is not fun when you're by yourself. Like, we want people to succeed with and to celebrate with us. And so many people that I have found are not surrounded by anybody. If you're really questioning whether somebody would be happy for you if you brought some sort of win to them or they would question, you know, your, your dreams, then they're probably someone who's not the. Not really looking out for your best interest.

I used to believe sort of a little bit like, hey, if somebody's saying that everybody around them sucks, what's likely you might suck. Yeah, that might be a. You say.

Yeah, it's like the phrase where if you wake up and you meet an asshole, you just met an asshole. If you meet assholes all day, you lung, you're the asshole. That's tr. Maybe you're the negative person.

It's 100%. But I think that in this case, you know, it can be hard if you're really a builder and you're not around builders. Not everybody gets that game.

Yeah.

You also talked a lot about habits of this of successful people and that some of them are replicable. What do you think that successful people do every day that other people don't?

Boring. Like, like, it's like, it's, it's. I think that it's like, I love all of the habits that people are putting online and the whole mindset shifts and habits of successful people and all that. I do love it. Like, I love, like I even said, like, I think cold plunging is great. Meditating is great and all of those things. Like, those are all good and they help. But I think the most important thing that I have found from, like, the most successful people is they are the type of person that follows through. Like, they are true to their word and they will follow through and do what they say they're going to do. I think that is probably the biggest key to the most successful people I've found is that they follow through and they're extremely consistent of doing it day in, day out. It's so funny to me. Like, I've now been an entrepreneur for 19 years. I'm 38, so it's been half of my life. And, like, people started like, let's be entrepreneurs. Being an entrepreneur is like waking up and deciding to be punched in the face. Every day. Like, that's literally what it is. Like, it's just challenge and a new challenge, a new challenge. It's fun for some of us. Like, I think it's the most fun thing ever. I get to wake up and play a game every single day. But I think that a lot of people, they just. They cannot stay consistent with that. And so I think that the two biggest things that I find is, like, they follow through and they're just consistent. And that's what it comes down to. And I remember when I was, like, researching a lot of stuff from my book on, like, willpower, then how do you get yourself to follow through and take action? And I started researching, like, some of the most successful people and, like, how they became so consistent. And what I found was that they are not the type of person who just has hardcore willpower. It's that they design an environment where their willpower isn't tested. And so, like, for instance, like, for me, I don't have any social media on my phone anymore because I noticed that I would pick it up and I'd immediately just somehow be on Instagram. Like, it was a. It was a reactionary thing. And so for the past six months, I haven't had Instagram on my phone. And so I haven't had. I've never had TikTok on my phone, which is. I've got like 600,000 followers on TikTok. I've never had it, Right? So it's like way I do it is I design my environment where I cannot be tested by this thing. So my team will come to my house, record the stuff, my editor will take it, give it to my social media team. Every Monday, we meet and we just see how everything's looking. Like, just look at the numbers as if it's anything else in a business, right? Just part of marketing. So that doesn't test my willpower. And so then if I don't have that, well, then there's less things to distract me. And there's less things to distract me. Well, then for me, it's like, okay, well, then what do I want to spend my time doing? Oh, this thing that I need get done today. And so I think if you can, even if it's somebody who, like, you know, wants to lose weight, it's. If you design an environment where your willpower doesn't get tested, it makes it so much easier. If you get rid of all of the shitty food, you get rid of all of the sugars, and you get rid of all the stuff and you just have stuff that is in your house, and you just have, you know, fruit that's out on the table. Instead, your willpower won't be tested. So I think. I think if somebody can design an environment where their willpower won't be tested, it makes it easier to be consistent. And then at the same time, just develop this, like, deep sense of when I say I'm going to do something, I absolutely, 100%, I'm going to do it. And the last thing I'll say around that. I figured this out when I was young, when I had my first office open, it drove me crazy that I would have all of these kids with so much potential come through, because, you know, I trained over. By the time I was 24, I trained 2000 sales reps. And I hated when they would say, oh, I'm gonna come into the office, I'm gonna make 100 phone calls, and then two hours later, they'd be at, like, seven. And so I printed out this huge fly, like, this huge thing when he walked out of my door. It said, follow through. Because just so many people don't do what they say they're going to do. So if people can have the integrity to just be consistent and then just to do what they say they're gonna do, I think that's probably the two biggest keys I can think of for success.

Do you remember when you first noticed that rich people did this thing, follow through? Do you remember watching somebody and saying, oh, look, they do it this way? I should mimic that.

Yeah. So my father. I told you a story. You know, he was an alcoholic, Passed away when I was 15. And I was very lucky. Like, very, very lucky. The same way where I said, like, if I didn't have my Uncle Dan in my life, I probably wouldn't know what success looked like. And so I had a little bit of that language they already knew because I saw Dan. And so Dan, he's retired now, but he was, like my first mentor by proxy, kind of. So he's my uncle. He's my mom's sister's husband. And when I was a kid, he had a glass company. He had, like, 200 employees. He did, like 20 million a year. And he was the type of person who just followed through. Like, he was so many. So often, like, in society, people who don't have money and don't have success, like, to demonize people who have success is if you have to, like, screw people over to make money, there's this whole thing of, like, you have to Screw people over or in order for you to win, somebody else has to have lost. And my uncle was always this person where if anybody ever needed anything, he was always there for them. And if anybody needed money, he would always give it to them. He never asked for it back. He would always be the person that was there. And so I always saw this guy. The good thing was that his grandson, which is my second cousin, was six days younger than me. So I was always around them because he would have me come on vacation stuff, and I would see him wake up before anybody else would and get his coffee and go to work and show up and be consistent. So, like, from a very young age, I was like, I just have to show up and work hard. I just have to show up and work hard. And he was very consistent in the way that he did it. Once I saw, okay, if I go this route, I can be like my dad, or if I go this route, I could be like Uncle Dan. As soon as I got the first opportunity to put any work into anything and I got into a sales position, I was like, what did Dan do? He worked his ass off. What am I going to do? I'm going to work my ass off. And so I think that's the first person I really realized taught me just by being around him. He never, ever told me, work hard or go for money or try to be successful, Any of that stuff. I just saw by the type of person that he was, that that's what I wanted to be.

Yeah. It's almost like you had a rich dad, poor dad.

That's 100% what I had. I've never even thought about. That's exactly what I had. I had the rich dad, poor dad situation.

Yeah. And you were able to actually see between the two, because a lot of times I had a famous mentor of mine that used to say, nothing is good or bad. It's only good or bad by comparison. And so if all you've ever known was your dad who lived a certain type of life, but that was your fault, you might not have known that it was actually bad. And so being able to juxtapose two humans is actually kind of a beautiful blessing.

100%.

Yeah. And I think also sometimes it's hard for all of us to learn what not to do just by seeing it. We have to also see what should we do and what are the repercussions of outcomes. I love that. One other thing you've talked about that I really like is talking about the importance of a partner and who you pick in a relationship and how psychological stability in a partner is incredibly important. So these days, we're marrying later than ever. We're having less sex, we're having less relationships. We're not jumping so easily into partnership. And I don't know if that's fear or searching or what the case is, but when it comes to picking a partner, what do you think is the most important?

I think the highest version of a relationship is somebody who doesn't try to change you and somebody who is there for you to work through your own shit. So I'll explain this because I have a story behind it. So my wife, we've been together for next month will be 11 years we've been together, and we were talking about somebody that we know, and she's married, but doesn't really want to be married to this guy. And she hasn't wanted to be married for a while, but she feels bad. So there's this whole thing we're talking about it. And she said, yeah, but she loves him. And I was like, okay, but is she in love with him? And she's like, well, I don't know. Like, what do you consider being in love? Well, actually, first what she did was she asked me the most woman question ever. She goes, well, are you in love with me?

She's like, how do you love me if I'm a worm?

Yeah. She's like, how do you know? And I was like, oh, God, now I gotta figure this out. So I was like, I think the highest version of a relationship is somebody who is there for you, that will support you through anything but has not tried to stunt your growth. A lot of people are like, I married you because you were this person, be this person forever. Like, a lot of people are like that in self development, which is what I'm in. A lot of people will get into personal development when they weren't before. And then their partner will just talk trash about trying to become better because their partner feels triggered. Like, oh, well, if she outgrows me, then she's going to leave me. So unconsciously, they start talking trash about wanting to grow because I don't want her to leave me. And so I think that we all have our baggage and we all have our traumas and we all have things we need to work through. And I think that the highest version of a relationship is somebody that makes you feel like you're in such a safe space that I can come to you with all of my stuff. You won't judge me for any of it, but you'll help me work through it. And I think that that's the thing that I've learned the most from my relationship with my wife is that I've never brought any of my baggage or trauma to talk about with her and ever felt like she came back to me, like, oh, well, you're not man enough. Why you bring this to me? Or, you know, you should figure this out on your own or whatever it might be. It was just like a safe space to be and me where I just happened to be very driven, competitive, hard working person. She never, never tried to change that in me, which is always great. And so I think that she just kind of like, it's about picking the partner that you will support you to be what you want to be. And so for me it was like she was that person I was able to be who I needed to be in order to grow. And I never felt like, oh well, if this business is successful then she's going to leave me or anything like that. So I think that's in my opinion is it's kind of like, you know, what's the point of a gardener? The gardener is supposed to plant the seed and give it water and give it space and give it sun so that it grows, the flower grows into its most potential that it can. And that's kind of the same way being in a relationship is like, I'm in a relationship with her. It is my job to create a safe space where she can grow to her potential, but not me. Try to force what she should be doing in her life.

Yeah, that's beautiful. Did you know that about her right away?

No. The thing that I knew about her is that she had a much deeper capacity to love than I did. Not, not because I wasn't born with that capacity. It's because I actually shut that part of me down based off of my childhood. And so I remember we went to a, we had a friend that was in town. I met him at a poker tournament. He's a relationship therapist. And he's like, you and your girlfriend should come by and just like check it out. I was like, okay, like, not knowing anything. Like, I was like, well, just come and talk to this guy. Cool, that'd be awesome. And he was the first time I ever had somebody. He goes, yeah, you were neglected as a child. And I was like, what do you mean? And he's like, he's like, you were neglected? I was like, well, no, I had food and water and I never lived on the street. He's like, no, you were emotionally neglected. And he goes, lauren, and he gave us all our assignments. He goes, lauren, your job is you understand love deeper than he does because he's never. It's like a room he's never walked into. So your job is to kind of lead him and show him what love can be and realize that he might get triggered in some sort of way because he feels unsafe, because he's never felt it before. It's not a reflection of you, it's a reflection of him. And if you just stay in that state of love, he will eventually kind of melt into it, I guess you could say. And so I didn't know it at all.

So now do you feel like you are able to love more? Did that work?

Oh, 100%. Well, there's a lot of things that I've worked on in the past few years, like, like I said, psychedelics helped and meditation helped and having a baby helped. And so there's a lot of things that have helped overwhelm.

Because young Rob probably wouldn't have talked about trauma and neglect. And you're probably like, whatever, I'm working on shit, fine.

I'm trying to build a business. That's what it came down to with anything else, right?

Yeah, it's super normal for people like you. And I like, yeah, trauma, whatever. I'm working on this thing.

Over the past probably three years, I've realized this is I got into self development because I wanted to be successful, I wanted to make money. That was like the thing when I was 19 and I realized I'm in a sales position, I can make money. That was like my number one focus for a really, really long time. And so I got into self development. Cause I was like, let me add stuff to me. Let me get better, let me get smarter. And so it was like this idea of like, I will succeed more the more that I add to myself. And what I realized is that the real true version of self development is actually subtraction, not addition. So, like, there's certain aspects of myself I need to get rid of or I need to let go of or not let run the show all of the time. And so for me, it's actually been a whole lot of doing less and removing aspects of myself that I'm not necessarily the most in love with.

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Usually nothing. I mean, they're not sharing a whole lot. I mean, it comes down to, like, the way I think about it is this is like, it's not. When I said, like, life is not that hard. Success is not that hard. It's quite simple. We make it difficult. Is like if I said, you know, this door is closed, and on the other side of this there's a million dollars, you just got to open the door. What do you have to do? Just get your ass up and go open the door, right? Like, that's all you have to do. But if you sit there and you're like, well, I don't know, but what if I break my ankle on the way over? What if I. And it's just like, life Is not that hard. You just have to take the actions that you need to do in order to solve. If you're trying to solve for X, what do you need to do to get to X? Okay, I need to take this action to do so. I don't know if my podcast would exist if people just took action. Like, when I wrote my book, I was like, what the fuck do I talk about? Like, if I zoom out, I have 1600 podcast episodes, right? What do I talk about? And it's. Almost all of it is like, mindset tricks and understanding yourself in psychological ways to understand yourself more so that you can actually do what you need to do to create the life you want.

Why do you think most people don't achieve their goals?

Because I don't think they actually care enough. Like, so my very first mentor used to always say to me, he would always say, if your why is strong enough, your how will reveal itself. And so what he always meant by that is that whenever you set a goal towards something, you need to figure out what the why is behind it. Like, why do you actually want to do it? I think the other thing that really holds a lot of people back is who they think they are. You know, it's like, I have a friend that has become pretty successful, and he grew up really, really poor in the ghetto. And he said, basically, when you grow up really poor and you see people that are successful make a lot of money, it's like a different language. Like, you just don't speak that language. And so when you grow up and a lot of people think, well, oh, I have an alcoholic father, so I can't be successful. My mom said I was worthless, or, this person broke my heart because I'm unlovable. And so they have this identity of who they think they are. And we have an idea of who you think you are, you always take actions that line up with that identity. And so one of the biggest reasons why people don't hit their goals is because they're not taking the action towards their goals, because they don't actually think that they're the type of person that can do it. And so one of the biggest things I think people can do is actually shift the identity of who they think they are, which sounds near impossible. It's like, oh, yeah, well, I'm Rob. I've always been Rob. I'm Cody. I've always been Cody. Like, it's like. But you have to understand, like, who you think you are is literally a character. You're just waking up and Deciding to play every single day. Like I had. I was literally thinking about this today. Earlier this morning, I had Matthew McConaughey on my podcast, like four years ago, right? And I was like, I wonder if that's actually how he is. Like, is he actually that guy? Like, is he actually that cool or is he's just such a good actor that when the camera turns on whenever he's on an interview, that he is just, you know, turns that character on. And I, like, five minutes before he started, and I was like, oh, my God, he's that guy. But then I realized, like, what if one day he just woke up and was like, I want to be this character? He decided to be that character, and now that character is loved by everybody. And so it's like the phrase Alan Watts says where he says, you're under no obligation to be who you were five minutes ago. Like, somebody can wake up and just decide to be somebody different tomorrow. Like, I wore a black shirt today, I can wear a white one tomorrow. So it's like, imagine just if you're a really shy person, you're not good in sales, but you have this company and you've got to get, like, sales going that you just wake up today and you're like, you know what? Fuck it. I'm just going to be really outgoing today and just see what it happens. And if it works for your business, maybe, like, you know what? I'm going to take that. I'm going to try to become a little bit more outgoing. And so I think there are two reasons. Why is because they don't have a purpose, like a why behind why they want to go for the goal. And the second thing is they actually don't think think that they can be the type of person that does it. But their identity is literally just as thin as a character that anybody plays on tv. Another big piece of it is the fears. So with the identity, it's like their self limiting beliefs, what they think of themselves. The fears is what they're fearing, what pain they're anticipating in the future. And the third thing is they just don't have a purpose behind it. They don't have a why that's driving them towards it. And so it's not really that hard. It's just that most people are deciding to, you know, be addicted to their phones. They're not deciding a lot of times. They're just unconsciously addicted to their phones or unconsciously addicted to, you know, eating this trashy food. They're unconsciously addicted to watching Netflix, they're addicted to, you know, sleeping in. And most people will choose the easy route. Like, that is what we do is we choose easy. And it's like, the only time that somebody will really make a change in their life is when the pain of staying the same is more painful than the pain of change. And if they just understand that, like, you just have to look at your life fast forward at 10 years and think, well, if I'm in the exact same position right now, in 10 years, am I going to be happy with myself? Is it going to be worse? First mentor used to always say, either green and growing or brown and dying. You're either getting better. Like, there's no such thing as staying in the same place. If you're in the same place 10 years from now, you're worse than you were today. And so it's like, you have to understand that staying the same has to become more painful than the change that you have to put in. Because, like, it's really like, my true belief that life is either hard now and easy later, or it's easy now and hard later in time will always catch up with you. Like, time is the greatest equalizer, and it is either your best friend or it's your worst enemy. It's your best friend if you do the hard stuff now. It is your worst enemy if you're choosing an easier life now.

You've also talked a lot about brain chemistry and how understanding your brain chemistry has made you able to take more action. Can you talk about that?

So, yeah, I love to talk about it. So I'm really into, like, this. This incredible machine that we're given, but we have no idea how to. Like, we're born with the most complex piece of machinery in the entire world, but we have no manual of how to use it. So I'm always like, how can I figure out how this thing works so that therefore I can use it to my benefit? And so, like, the thing that I think is the most interesting and, like, that really drives me, even literally today, I'm not even kidding you. If you've ever sat down and created a course or created a book or something, the very first thing that hits you is like, I'm like, dude, I've got so much to do before the end of the year. And I'm just thinking this in my head, right? And so I'm thinking out of my head and I'm like, I just have to start. And the reason why I know I have to start is because. So when your brain, when you sit down and you're like, I'm going to do something different. When your brain is getting ready to focus, it releases two things. It releases acetylcholine and it releases epinephrine. And so those two things, acetylcholine and epinephrine, are what make you start to focus in on something. The problem with that is that acetylcholine and epinephrine actually come from the parts of the brain that feel like anxiety. And so if we're about to do something and we're about to feel more focused, the feeling up of warming up in our brain should actually make you feel anxious because it's your brain starting to warm up for focus that's about to happen. And so I know that it takes on average about six minutes for a brain to warm up, right? So it's like if you go into a gym, like, my trainer came over today, like, I didn't go and like, start pulling 100 pounds immediately. Like, I had to do stretches first and I had to do the movement first, and we had to do all the crazy stuff that he likes to do. And then we could go and I could actually work on the £100 kettlebell, right, because I needed to warm up. It's the exact same thing where, like, your brain, when it's about to focus, it's got to go through this little bit of a warmup phase. The thing that's really interesting, though, is that warm up phase feels like stress and anxiety because it comes from that part of the brain. So when I sat down today, I was immediately flooded with, like, the stress and anxiety of, like, how big of a task this is for me to do. I'm thinking to myself, oh, my God. But it's almost the end of the year and I've got. We've got Thanksgiving coming up and I've got Christmas coming up, and I've got to go home for Christmas. Oh, my God, am I gonna get. So it's like all of this is happening and I had to be like, hold on, take a step back. You're feeling this way because your brain's about to focus. You know that your brain's about to focus. So all you have to do is fight through, on average, the first six minutes and that's it. And you fight through those six minutes and your brain will actually start to become more focused. That's one of the most interesting things that I think is when we feel stress and anxiety, we think that it's, oh, I need to back away. But really what it is this feeling of like, oh, I should actually lean in because neurologically it's my brain warming up to focus so that I can get this task done.

Is this a rule that you have, the six minute rule?

Yeah, it's like, well, I don't let myself stop. I'm kind of good.

You should name and frame this thing. Is this something you talk about on the Internet? Yeah, I've never. Because you're right. Every time I go and sit down to write in particular, I get distracted or I get annoyed, or I get a little twitchy, or I kind of got to fidget around for a little bit and I fiddlefuck my way through those first six minutes until finally, somehow I relax. But if you know the thing that's coming, then the expectation is so much easier once it hits. But often I don't think about it that way. So I think that's really good.

You gotta try. You're have to try it out and then text me and let me know. Okay, I'll put a little six minutes, 10 minutes, whatever it is. And then just as soon as you get past it, you'll realize that you kind of like get into flow state and you kind of forget about the stress and anxiety and like you're into it now and then you just, you end up being done eventually and you're like, oh my God, that wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be.

It's interesting because when you work out, you always anticipate, well, you have a five or ten minute warmup. Like that's just, you know, you're not going to go in there and sprint right away. Especially at our age, you're gonna chill a little bit, you're gonna warm up, you're gonna stretch out. And if you did the same thing with creative work, would that not be the same? And then you could decrease that writer's block, that stress that I can't do this. Which is fascinating, isn't it? The other thing that you talk about a lot is the dopamine reward system and how you can use it to create better habits in your life. How can somebody use dopamine to make their life better or to make habits in their life easier?

Yeah. So dopamine usually gets put together with serotonin. So there's. Serotonin is dopamine. Everyone's always like, oh, those are the feel good chemicals. Serotonin is the gratitude. You feel good. Like if you're ever done with work and you're like, man, you're looking at your husband, you're like, I love him so much. Oh, my God, I'm so happy. I have this business that's serotonin that's going through your brain. That's not dopamine. Right? So it's. It's the here and now. I feel good in this moment. Chemical dopamine, on the other hand, if you look at most of the chemicals that are extremely addictive, like cocaine, crack, all of those, they are usually high dopamine chemicals, like those drugs, when you do cocaine, usually your dopamine goes up by about 250%. Jesus. So it just raises like crazy. So then when it's gone, your brain wants it again. And so it's very addictive in the sense of we want to find things that are going to give us dopamine. The really interesting thing about dopamine, though, is dopamine is 100% subjective as well. And so what I mean by that is that you can basically make your brain release dopamine whenever you want to, and so this is how you use it. So most people, whenever they go for a habit, like for instance, let's say it's a long day that they have, and they go for a glass of wine. That glass of wine makes them feel good, and they're going to want to do it again. They naturally want to go towards that. That's their body. That's the dopamine of being able. I wanted this thing. I've got this thing now. I feel good. But then after you're done with that glass of wine, what happens? Oh, my God, I want another glass of wine. And so it usually ends up going that way. So whenever you sit to yourself and you're like, okay, I want to do this task. How can I make my. Like, I've always thought to myself, like, how can I make myself addicted to taking the action I need to create the life that I want? Right? Like, if I. Like, for instance, people are always like, how do. Have you done 1600 podcast episodes? I accidentally created a dopamine reward system in myself. And so this is basically how it works. Okay. You can literally get done with something. So whenever I get done with a podcast, every time, what I do is I change my shirt because I want to make it look like it's a different day, you know, like content days. Right? You just got to change your shirt. Yeah, so it changed my shirt. And because I get jazzed up about creating content, I'm like, I love what I do. I did this thing where every Time I look in the mirror, I'm like, this is fucking awesome. Like, you're killing it. This is amazing. What I didn't realize is that I was then creating a dopamine reward system where my body was releasing dopamine, which is what it's signaling to my brain and body. Is that what you just did? Release dopamine? Do it again. So I just took the action that I needed to in order to make myself be more successful. I celebrated it and that celebration created released dopamine release, which then said my brain and body, that creating the episode is something you should do again.

Levi, are we gonna start doing this?

You guys should have a dance party at the end of every single episode, whenever you get done with the reels. And so what's happening is you're actually teaching your brain to be addicted to this thing. So like another example, let's say like somebody wants to go to the gym, right? Most people, and I was this way for a really long time, do not celebrate themself until they hit the goal. The problem with that is that you might not hit the goal for, for a month, for two months, for 12, if it's a year long goal. If you're going to lose 30 pounds in 20, 25, and you won't be happy until you get to that 30 pounds being lost, you are not giving your brain dopamine, which means that it's not going to like the process. Because what do most people do? This is what most people do according to what I hear from people, right? They go to the gym, they come back, they take a shower, they see their naked body in the mirror and they're like, oh, you still look fucking fat, right? And then they talk shit to themselves when they just got the thing done, what they wanted to do. So they're actually saying to their brain without them realizing it. The thing that you just did was not something that you enjoy. It's not good for you, right? Versus you go to the gym. As soon as you walk in the gym, talk to yourself. I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud that you did this. You're doing this. This is amazing. You get done with your first set, you look yourself in the mirror. You don't say it out loud unless you have a home gym, if you want to. Otherwise people are gonna think you're crazy, right? People are gonna take their cameras and go towards you after. You look fake, you look sexy, bitch, you look amazing, right? But it's like you talk to yourself in your head after Every single set that you have and then makes you more likely to show up the next day because it feels good. Because your brain is subjectively releases dopamine throughout the entire process. So then you actually start becoming addicted to the process because your brain says, oh, you know, when I do this, I get dopamine. When I do this, I get dopamine. Okay. I want dopamine, so I want to do this. They've actually found that there for people. If you have a small piece of chocolate, because chocolate releases dopamine as well. You have a small piece of chocolate after working out, you're more likely to show up the next day to work out again. Not like an entire candy bar. Right.

I love this for me.

So it's like a tiny little piece. Right. So it'll just release a little bit. It's like giving yourself the prize. That's saying what you're doing is good, you're on the right path. And so I always say, like, most people have results based goals, which is like when I lose those 30 pounds, what I want to celebrate is, what's I want to create is action based goals. What's the action that I need to do in order to get to this place? And when I get done with the action, I celebrate myself. Which means I'm more likely to do the action again. And if I just keep showing up and I'm consistent with it, like we spoke about earlier, eventually I'll just end up at the result that I wanted in the first place.

That's great. Yeah. When I go to the gym, you know why I like arms Is because when I'm getting my little pump in. Yeah. Looking at them, I'm like, look at that. That appears to be a vein. And it's an immediate feedback loop. Loop. Because there's a mirror in front of me. Whereas legs, you know, my leggings on. I can't really see what's happening there. No reward.

No.

So I got to start going. I got to go. Start going in shorts or something.

It's these little tricks. Like, it's just like, how can I make. How can I just make the life I want? And taking the action to do it easier is all I really want to focus on for people.

Yeah. You know what's interesting too is so right now I have a family member who is trying to get a job. And it's funny because I was talking to him last night and he's like, man, it's just a really tough process. Like, it's not fun and it's a little lonely, and I'm a little sad about it. And my response was, that seems reasonable, because it sucks until finally it doesn't, but then you're done. And there's really no positive feedback loop whatsoever. It's all negative feedback loops until you're done. Except if you do it your way. If instead you say, all right, I don't have a job right now. I want a job. So every single day, what am I going to do? I'm going to reach out to 10 different companies. I'm going to individually ping 10 different people. I'm going to pick up the phone and try to schedule a breakfast or walk or something with three people I don't know each day. And if I do that every day, just the action. I'll check a box, I'll have a run, I'll have a glass of wine. And I bet he'd feel a lot better if he did.

That I had, when I was back in the Cutco days, my first manager, I don't think he knew a dopamine reward system, but he basically kind of left little trails, kind of like ET when you like to put the Reese's Pieces. And, like, he would come and go from one to another.

I like that. That's a millennial throwback right there, right?

So this is what he had us do, is we would come in and we do these things called phone jams, and we would make 100 phone calls, right? 100 cold calls. These people do not expect me to call them all of it. And he's like, what's your taking?

Knives, too. That's a brutal job.

That's super brutal, right? Imagine training people.

Train 2,000 people.

That's nuts, right? It's a wild thing. My wife, we have a joke because she ghosted me for a little while, but she never told me no. And so I'm just like, I'm a salesperson. I just kept following up. I got this. Used to follow up. And then she's like, all right, fine.

Put her in your calendar.

She says she went on the first date with me because she was like, he's nice, but she wanted to be single at the time. So she's like, you know what? I'm just gonna go on a date with him just to prove to myself that I don't like him. And then she went on the first date with me, and she's like, shit, I like this guy. And then from there, we started dating, and it went well. So I don't know what we were talking about. Before that. But yes, I.

Well, you were talking about your boss when you were younger, created a dopamine system by accident for your 100 call dose.

He would say, what's your favorite candy? And I was like, skittles. He goes, okay, when you come in on Thursday, I'll bring a bag of Skittles with me. And what he would do is we would have this piece of paper and it had 1 to 100 on the piece of paper. So there's 10 lines. Then it was 10 lines. 10 lines. There's 10 of them. Right? And so at the end of number 10, as soon as I crossed off 10, there were three Skittles. The end of 20, there were three Skittles all the way down. And then I could finish the bag of Skittles when I finished 100 calls, which is like, I'm trying to get myself to this thing. These 10 calls, which are just brutal to call people who don't expect you to call. And then you get three Skittles. So I'm like, oh, I want to get to the Skittles.

The Skittles were enough.

Yeah, they were enough.

Was it just 19 year old college?

Yeah.

Or was monetary?

Well, it was probably both. I think it's probably Skittles more than anything else.

I think if I tried Skittles with my employees here, they'd tell me to fuck them. I don't think. Is that gonna work? He might work, actually. Maybe I'm underestimated.

And so like, for me, that drove me to go take the calls. And so I think it's just that little thing of like, how can I have like a little bit of like the prize at the end of doing the thing I want to do right instead of. And that's for today. Not like when I hit my goal in three months, it's like, what do I need to do today? Because most of the time what we do is we do the thing in our business that we need to do and there's no revenue coming in today from what we just did. And we're like, dammit. Like, I'm still so far, like, I've got to figure out how to pay the damn bills versus being like, I did what I needed to do to. To get me one step further. I'm gonna celebrate that thing. Which is the difference between action based goals, which is taking the action, versus only celebrating on results based goals.

What else you're reminding me of is how little we actually need to get motivated. Oh, yeah, because you think about Robinhood or E Trade they literally addict us to stock trading because of confetti that pops up and a bright button and a little noise. But we don't play that game with ourselves enough. And we think that we need to do this intense, huge reward at the end, which is often what I think about. I'm like, well, when I do this.

I'll buy a watch or something like that.

Big, huge end game. But actually, it's really killing us because we're not doing it every step of the way.

Exactly.

That's such a little thing that I've got.

You're delaying dopamine is what you're doing, which is what you're actually trying to go for.

How does this work in practice? So let's say that somebody's listening right now and. And they're not where they want to be in their career. They're like, man, life hasn't worked out exactly like I wanted it to. I wish that I had more money. I wish I was where I wanted to be today. How do you get them down the rabbit hole all the way to the truth? Because I think a lot of them probably stop really high. They're like, I want to be richer. I want more money. I want to be successful. But what are the questions you keep asking to get them to that deep, dark place?

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Well, so there's a thing that I found years ago. It's called the seven levels of Y. And it's literally, okay, you want to do xyz, why do you want to do that? You come up with a whole reason why you want to do it. And they say, why do you want to do that? You come up with a whole reason if you go seven levels. Why? Usually people start to actually tell you the truth and get through their own bs. I think the problem is that a lot of people are very Surface level nowadays. Like, we're very surface level with ourselves. We're very surface level with other people. Like, people don't really know themselves. Like, they think that they do, and then they start to work on themselves, and they start to work with a journal and they meditate and whatever it is, and they actually start to figure themselves out more. And I think the biggest piece is that if you just sit down and ask, why do I want this? Why do I want this? Why do I want this? Why do I want this? Either you're just going to be lying to yourself or. Or you're gonna start to unravel some pieces. And what I think is really important is, like, the way that I always talk about journaling and how you want to do this is if why's not hitting with you, go a level deeper by saying, who, what, why, when, or how. So it's who, what, why, when, how. It's not just why, but it's like, okay, let's say I want to make $500,000. Why do I want to make $500,000? Because I've never made that much before. All right, I'm not getting something there. Who. Okay, if I use who? Whose life will be impacted if I make $500,000? My children. Okay, who, what, why? When, how? Let me try another one. How's that going to change your life? How's that going to change your education? What opportunities will become available for them if I make more money? We live in a better part of town, right? It's like, could their education. I mean, we live in America. It's a shitty fact. But if you live in a better part of town, your children get a better education. I had. Inside of my book, I wrote a story of one of my very first clients that I worked with, one on one, and his goal was to make $100,000 a year. Like, he's like, I want to make $100,000 a Year. I was like, okay, why? He's like, because I've never done it before. I was like, okay, tell me why. Then we went deeper and deeper and deeper, and we ended up finding out the reason why he wanted to do it was because he had just gotten a divorce. He lived just outside of New York in a really bad part of town. His wife lived in a worst part of town. Ex wife, worst part of town. And we ended up finding out that his biggest fear was that. And this had to be, like, watered down for the book because the publisher didn't want this exact story. But his biggest fear Was that his daughter would get pregnant by 13 and his son would be murdered in a drive by. And so that ended up being his reason for wanting to get to $100,000 a year. And so instead of saying, I want to make $100,000 a year because I've never done it before, it now became, I want to make $100,000 in a year so that I could put a down payment on a house so I could take my children, I can put them into a better part of town, they can get a better education and have their lives completely changed because I decided to work harder towards it. So if you start thinking this way and like, who, what, why, when, how, you can start going deep with yourself, and you realize if you can take it from just yourself and start putting children and start putting your family into it and your spouse into it, your mother, father, usually, you'll start to find that the reason ultimately why you want to do something, that is how it's going to make you feel and how it's going to impact the people who you love. And if you can realize that and start to work through those lenses, which is like, oh, so hold on. I want to grow this business. Why do I want to grow this business? I want to grow this business because I want to make money, because I want to buy a Ferrari, whatever it is that people want, right? And then you start asking yourself, well, how's that going to impact my children's life? I mean, let's just be real. If you're able to give more opportunities to your children, they're probably going to end up having a better life. And one of the pieces that's the important part of it that I want to say, though, and we haven't spoke on, is there's this misconception because I think people do it wrong. There's this misconception that if I want to be a really successful business owner, I have to have a terrible relationship with my children or I have to spend less time with my children. That happens a lot. Like, I talk to people like, yeah, I want to be a successful business owner, but I don't want to spend less time with my children. I'm like, who the fuck said that you had to spend less time with your children, Right? So it's like, the thing is, is, like, I think that's an old paradigm of, like, if I want to be successful, then my relationship with my wife needs to, you know, hurt because of that. I don't get to see my children as much because of that. That is like a scarcity mindset. And scarcity is or like so it's like it's either this or it's this. It's either this or it's this. That's scarcity. Abundance is and which is how do I make a very successful business and spend more time with my children? Like that's an and. And so what you realize is that at this moment I might not know, but I need to evolve myself. I need to evolve. There's either a skill set that I need to learn or there's knowledge that I need to learn in order to be able to delegate to my team members how to hire better, how to delegate better so that I can spend more time with my family. Like my overall goal of becoming a successful business owner was to make a bunch of money, but also to be a present father because my father was never present when with me. And so the cool thing about it is I've set my business up where I need to show up at certain points, but I'm not necessary all the time so I can spend more time with my son and can spend more time with my wife and we can disappear and go travel for three weeks and only do two check in calls to make sure the business is still running. And so it's not that in order to have a successful business or be successful or make a bunch of money or impact people that other people have to suffer because of that that you love.

It's not a or problem. It's really just a how do I become better problem.

How do you become better? I have a sign that's on my, on my desk and it just says be better. And that's it. And it's not like me being an asshole to myself. It's me just going, okay, you know, I've got this thing I've got to solve for my business. It's stressing me out because I don't know what the answer is. And I look at it, I'm like, be better. Okay, there's another, there's a more expansive version, there's a more evolved version of Rob that knows how to solve this problem. There's some, there's knowledge I need to get or there's skill set I need to get in order to solve this. That's all I need to figure out. And so yeah, I think if people just focus on, if I just need to be better, then I can figure out a way to have this reality and that reality and that reality all live together and not have to live in scarcity.

Speaking of being better, what about. What about when you're working with somebody who's really resistant to change? Do you have a process where you can just shake somebody out of ruining their life?

Yeah. I mean, the thing I like to think about is, like, what the future could be if somebody doesn't change, you know? And so it's like, if we go back to the whole idea of, like, the only time somebody will make a change is when the pain of staying the same is more painful than the pain of change. Like, I had a guy one time that came up to me after a speech that I gave, like, five years ago, and he was pretty overweight, and he's like, rob, I want to lose weight. I don't know how to lose weight. What should I do? And I was like, okay, well, tell me about it. What have you tried? I was like, what's your fear that if you don't lose weight? He's like, well, I'm just afraid that, like, you know, I won't be healthy later on in life. I'm like, okay, that's not really good. Like, what are you actually afraid of? And after talking to this guy for a few minutes, he's like. I was like, okay, what's your biggest fear? If you don't lose the weight that you want to lose, what's your biggest fear is going to happen? He goes, my biggest fear. His daughter was, like, 10 at the time. He goes, my biggest fear is that I won't be around to walk my daughter down the aisle. And I was like, that's it. I was like, okay, so walk through this with me real quick. Let's say his name is John. John. Let's say that you decide not to change, you decide not to lose weight, you decide not to eat healthier, you decide not to go to the gym, walk, do all the things that you know you should do and you're fully capable of doing right now. And we fast forward. Let's say we fast forward 15 years. Your daughter's 25 years old, and because of the fact that you didn't take the action that you needed to, you end up passing away from a heart attack. And as your daughter's walking down the aisle by herself, when you should be there with her, she sees her husband that's up in front and over to the left side, which is always the bride side, on the left corner there is your suit that's folded up in the corner, and she has to see your suit folded up on the first chair. Instead of you actually being in that suit and walking around the aisle. What does that feel like to you? And he was like, bawling, and he's like, I'm crying. Like, he was just thinking about that, right? It was a physical feeling. Like, I'm getting goosebumps thinking about this moment again. And he's like, I don't know what I would. How I could live with myself knowing that that is a possibility. And I was like, okay, here's my email. Send me an email in three months. Let me know how it's going. And so he sent me an email in, like, three months. He ended up losing, like, £20. He sent me an email almost like a year later. He lost, like, 75 pounds. And the reason why was because he put himself into the future. Because we like to think of, like, right now, right now I'm alive, I'm breathing, I'm okay. Like, I'm a little uncomfortable where it is. Like, I'm not breathing as well as I should be, but I'm okay. But if you fast forwards and he starts thinking about what his life could be, how his daughter's gonna be affected, how his wife's gonna be affected, and that's a reality that could possibly be a true reality if he doesn't change, then he was like, I can't let that shit happen. I need a change. But there is also the aspect of, like, you can't. Like, one of my second mentor used to always say this to me. He used to always say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make a drink. Cause what drove me crazy about when I was in Cutco is I'd have these people that had many so much potential and they could have been so good, but they just wouldn't show up. They wouldn't do what they needed to do. And it used to drive me crazy because I was like, how do I get them to change? And he was like, rob, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make a drink. The only thing that you can do is try your best to help other people. But if somebody doesn't change, you're not the one that's in control of that. And so it's like, if somebody can put themselves into the future, I think that that helps a lot. But ultimately, if somebody else wants to change, it's fully up to them and not up to me.

Rob Dial, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Yeah, thank you for having me. It's been fun.