Why People Don’t Like You? #1 Dating Coach - Blueprint for Modern Relationships

Finding love is hard. There is nothing easy about finding the person you're going to share a room with for the rest of your life.

The most important deal you'll ever do is the partner you choose. Marriage done well is a superpower. That's why today I bring you Matthew Hussey, arguably the world's foremost dating coach.

There's an arrogance among a lot of entrepreneurs that they think, if you're not on board and you don't support me, and it's like, no. Being with an entrepreneur is a nightmare.

Do you have frameworks or tactics you use?

But I have these things I call emotional buttons. When we feel an emotion and it's a good emotion and we want to feel it again, it's really, really important to just.

If you're young and you're having a hard time finding somebody, does it help if you're like, maybe I should try dating across the aisle?

Ask yourself, what was missing last time around that. Because that thing was missing. I was miserable. You have to have a strong enough reason to believe that the game is worth.

For the last 20 years, he's advised everyone from regular folks to royalty, literally. And his clients include people like Eva Lagoria and Tyra Banks. He's written bestsellers, gone viral on every platform you can name, and also built one of the most loyal female audiences on the Internet, helping people find maybe the most important thing in the world, love, and keeping it. So. Without further ado, let's bring on Matthew Hussey to talk about how do we find love? How do we keep it? How do we date? And how do we not just get married, but stay married happily? So, for my single friends, I keep hearing that it's harder than ever out there, that they can't find someone even if they were married before they're divorced. They're trying to figure it out. You've been doing this for 18 years, talking to people about dating and psychology and marriage and partnership. Is it harder now today than any other time? And what's different now?

I think in some ways it is harder now. I think there's, you know, you. There's more and more news stories now about what's happening for men and women. Not I want to plunge headfirst into those political debates, but I do, I do. It's become, I think, hard to ignore that there is something going on that is making life difficult at all. Different age groups, you know, you have people who are out there who are really looking for commitment. You have women looking for commitment, and we're Living in a world where I don't know the stats off by heart, but women are making more money, men are struggling. A lot of men, not all men, but a lot of men. Women are more educated, a lot, a lot less men by comparison, are graduating. So there seems to be something going on there in terms of, you know, women whose standards have gone up, men who are struggling to keep pace. How does that then show up in dating in terms of, you know, are women happy with who they're meeting.

Men.

Happy with who they're meeting or the ways that they're feeling necessary or in any way sign? Are they struggling with where they are? Are they struggling with their confidence? I think just an awful lot going on in terms of men feeling sidelined and men not feeling like they match up to some ideal that's going on on the women's side too. Women feel like they're not matching up to an ideal. I think social media has created an ideal that's so hard for any of us to live up to. It's created a completely fake image of what success is, of what a good looking person is. You can't even trust what Santorini looks like anymore. You know what I mean? How could you not be disappointed these days going to Santorini? It's been perfected on Instagram. So, you know, what has happened to holiday destinations, has happened to our faces, has happened to people, has happened to lifestyles. So there's a, there's a kind of impossible standard that I think a lot of people are looking for. And like I said, you know, we can get into it, but I think it affects people differently depending on the age they are, whether they're in their 20s. And you're now finding, you know, I saw a news piece the other day that Gen Z women are having an easier time, some of them dating millennial men, because some of their political beliefs are more aligned than they are with men their own age. Because we're living in this really strange time where, you know, it used to be the case that young people were the most liberal, and now, especially among men, they trend more conservative. So you've now got a lot of very liberal women finding a lot of men their age have very different views than them on life. And they're finding that older men have more things in common in terms of their views than men their own age. Again, these are generalizations, but there's something really fascinating about that. Then you've got people coming out of marriages in their 50s saying, you know, especially if they're a woman, I'm dating guys who are expecting, you know, very old ways of being and I have to show up, you know, very grateful and very submissive to a relationship and having no needs. Meanwhile, they're not offering an awful lot. They, many of them don't want to commit again, they don't want to get married again, they don't want to be back in a situation where they're being told what to do or where they're having to answer to anybody. So there's just so many mismatches across the board right now. And it's, there is a, there is a bit of a sense of. It's a bit of a mess.

Yeah, it does feel like that. You know, it's interesting because you coach, you know, through your business, which we'll talk about, Matthew AI and then also all the events and everything that you do, you, you coach and talk to thousands and thousands of people about dating and millions and millions of people across social media. Do you find are people happier when they date somebody or marry somebody that has the same political view as them or.

No, I think it removes a variable. You know, I think it takes something off the table that becomes a deep source of antagonism in a relationship. I mean, it's not an ideal with people who are, you know, you've got one person in the relationship who has one stance on abortion and the other side has a completely different stance. That's really tricky because it, you know, we're not talking two people in a relationship who are like, one of them thinks we should pay a bit more in tax and the other one doesn't, which kind of, you know, you, those situations are a little easier because it's just like, ah, you, you know, you believe in higher taxes and I don't. When it comes to those more deep seated issues, it's very hard for people. And also, you know, we live in a world that we, I'd be the last person to, to make the point that we're so divided. And so it's much more now I think, you know, people have said if you hear one person's belief now, you kind of tend to know everything they believe. Yep. Because of whatever chain echo chamber they're in. And so I think you have two people meeting where it's not just like there are nuances in, they have different, like they agree more for the most part over here. But then there's just some areas where they just don't quite align. Usually it's like, no, you believe all of these different things and I Believe all of these different things. And that's a hard relationship to have unless you've got two extremely compassionate, curious, and empathetic people who are trying to understand each other. But that doesn't exactly portray the landscape right now, does it?

No. It almost feels like people want to. They want to lead first with ideology. It's like, I am my ideology as opposed to I want to be with another human. You know, when I was younger, I don't think I really cared or anybody knew so much what political aisle somebody else was on wasn't a topic of conversation we talked about consistently. And I wouldn't have said, oh, I would never date Matthew because he's X and I'm Y. Like, he seems super interesting. Oh, he has that political view. Whatever. Kind of. Doesn't matter. Yeah. If. If you're young and you're having a hard time finding somebody, do you think, like, does it help if you're like, man, maybe I should try dating across the aisle? Or are you like, no, it's actually a bad idea because now you just have all this friction later. Because we're so closely tied to our.

Ideologies, I think that we should try and be on the lookout for the. The values that seem to transcend what people think.

Yeah.

You know, the, The. I think it was. Christopher Hitchens once said, it's more important how someone thinks than what they think.

I love Hitchens.

Yeah.

Letters to a Young Contrarian.

Sad.

Such a classic.

It's a great, great, great book. And I'm sad that we don't get to hear his opinions on everything today.

Yeah.

It always feels like one of the great losses of. Of our lives now that we don't get to hear him weigh in on things.

Yeah.

He's a voice I miss.

Yeah.

Tremendously.

It's. He'd be a good person for young people to listen to, too, because he was like a socialist and a communist and then a capitalist and then an atheist.

Who would he have been believed in God, 20 years. If he'd lived another 20, you would.

Have gone all back.

It'd be fascinating to hear. And so. But, you know, I, I always admired that idea of, oh, how you think, not what you think. And, you know, me and my wife Audrey did not start with all the same beliefs about everything.

You didn't lay your voting card on the table. Can you walk me through each decision, please?

But we, but it was. What was clear early on was that we did have some different stances on things. And I. The, the more we were in Each other's worlds. The. I think we've really affected each other. You know, both of us have changed. And that, to me, is. There's something very, very beautiful about that. So if I had written her off because she believes different things than me and she'd written me off for the same reason, we might have been missing something more important, which is that actually, at our core, Audrey and I are both intensely curious people, and I'm more interested in truth than I am in being right. So that. Which, by the way, is always. This is a very. Besides the point. Point to make, but I always think it's an important point for people to hear, is that saves you actually from fear of embarrassment. And, you know, in an interview like this. Right. I could. Or a conversation like this, it would be very scary to go in thinking that the goal is to be right, because then if I'm. If I misstep and say something that I turn out to be wrong about, it's a really hard thing for my ego to try and reverse out of that. But if I instead say I just. I just care about finding what's true, then I can change my position on anything at any time. And there's something very powerful about that. And I think that if you can bring that to a relationship, then you have a relationship between two people where they're both constantly evolving. There's a certain magic to that that you are prepared to change your mind about things, and I'm prepared to change my mind about things. And because we know that about each other, we don't. We're not keeping a scorecard of who's right and who's wrong. Instead. And. And it's. There's something very disarming when you see someone else that you're within a relationship. Say, you've made me think differently about that, because it lowers your guard when. When you hear someone say that, you then think, why am I being so stiff about my opinions if they're willing to do that? Maybe there's some areas that I need to concede on or I need to think about. And Audrey was always so good at that. She. She would. She would. One of the loveliest compliments she would give me and. And in turn, I've given her is because of you, I've changed my mind on that or because of you, I actually think a little differently about that. And I really credit you with helping me understand more about that or seeing a different. Seeing that a different way. It's such a gorgeous compliment to receive from someone, and I Know that getting that compliment from her has made me. It's actually disarmed me in a lot of ways. And seeing that she has the humility to. To shift ideas has bred more of that humility in me. In a relationship where I can think of times in the past where I've been very defensive and digging my heels in on a position and very competitive about who's winning the argument. And, you know, we just don't have that in our relationship, which is lovely. And that's why I say that's deeper than what. What we thought was like this layer. How we thought was a much deeper layer. And because of how we thought that, we had an intense curiosity and a humility and a desire to know what's truthful and that superseded what we thought.

It's so true. Yeah, it kind of goes back to that Carol Dweck fixed verse growth mindset that she talks about. And I always thought, I mean, I've done a marriage wrong once before, and so I was married before, and I think the biggest problem was one of us, I think was more growth mindset. So, like, hey, I could be wrong now, but that doesn't mean I am wrong as a human. I'm just wrong in this moment. And, like, we're gonna keep figuring that out. And, you know, and if you're fixed, you're kind of like, I am either smart or I am not, or I am wrong or I am right. And that is very. Actually fragile. As opposed to like, you know, Taleb's antifragile, which would be like, yeah, I can. I can bend. I'm the grass or the palm tree. I'm not the oak that can break.

Or freeing ye is very free Now.

Now you've. I want to. Today, obviously I want to obsess on the idea of how do we help more humans find love. I mean, for me in particular, if I would have said that comment three years ago, I probably would have. Like, that's like so touchy feely for me. I'm a finance person. I like what is wrong with her? Like, she do some ayahuasca before this. But the. I think now that I've been, you know, married for. For many years and I've watched my parents have an incredible marriage, one I think it's such a. It's such a superpower. Like, a marriage well done is so beautiful. And it is my. It's my happiest thing in my life. Like, he's incredible. And don't get me wrong, we fight all the time. Too and have all the issues. So I want to help people as much as we can with your expertise, find love. And then I also want us maybe even more important. It's not just about getting married. It's about staying married. Right. Happily. And so stay married. And so I kind of. One of the questions I had was one, how do you stay married? What are the traits of two people who stay married together, happily?

I like talking about this because I feel I'm discovering this as I'm talking because it's. I've talked so much about dating, I've talked so much about getting into relationships. It's fun for me to, to think about this side of it because I've been asked about it less. Look, I, I think that you have to, you have to actually be. I think a great marriage actually requires an awful lot of discipline. It's not a word that comes up a lot in relation to relationships. But I actually think discipline is really, really important because I, if you, if you have a good body, there's, there's. Because there's a discipline there about the way that you show up in that area of your life. And it's not easy. It's not. There are days you don't feel like going to the gym. I don't feel like going to the gym. I would say four out of five days, same that I go. I really don't. It's one of those things that I feel. I'm happy I did it after, I did it beforehand, not so much. And every area of our life is like that. Our, our business is like that.

Dating partnerships aren't the only ones that are really important. So are partnerships in business. If you guys right now are looking to build your business and you're confused on your next partner, on next move in your business, I want you to know we got your back. We actually just started something only for owners of businesses who are looking to grow. It is, I think for you, if you are a six, seven or eight figure entrepreneur, that feels like right now, today, you don't exactly have the recipe for your growth accelerator. If that is you, we got your back. Go ahead and click the link. You can talk to our team and figure out if you should also build alongside some other humans who could be your future partners.

You know, that's so. Well, it's has to be this thing that you, you go to work every day and you show up for it and it's not always easy. You know, David White describes, the British poet David White describes our vocation as One of the three marriages that we are in. And, and like any marriage, it's. You have days where you don't like it and you have to do things you don't want to do and you make sacrifices. And I think it's one of the things that makes people feel quite resentful of following their dreams is how disappointing following their dreams can be. That hits too close, you know, like you, you, you. You do this thing. You see a person I don't know on stage and you go, I want to do that. But you're talking about one tenth of the job when you see that person on stage. If someone comes and sees me at my retreat and say, I want to do that, they're seeing me in one weekend of my entire year. Most of my year is me sat in our house behind a laptop on zoom calls or sitting in a quiet room making content that people don't look at that and go, I want that life. No, they. They see you on stage. I want that. And that's such a small part of it. So then someone does it and they go, oh, my God. I. I think I'm doing it wrong because I'm not. I don't feel naturally happy all the time, or I don't feel naturally excited all of the time. So it, There are days where you don't want to do it, and I think this is true of relationships as well. There. It. It's challenging. Some days you don't have the energy for it. You don't feel like listening to someone today when they're talking about something they're going through and you're like, oh my God, I've a hundred other things to do today. I really didn't need on top of that for you to be having an anxious moment about something I don't, you know, and you feel like you don't know. But how often is it like that at work? You have a hundred things to do at work, and then one. But someone comes to you and says, I, I need. I need you to deal with this. And it is swell of resentment that, like, how dare you bring me one more thing in a day where I'm already so overloaded. But it's like, that's what you signed up for. That's the game.

That's the game.

And, and so when you realize that's the game, you have two choices. Either decide the game is worth it or you bail or you stop trying, which is the slow death from that point on. But you have to have a strong enough reason to Believe that the game is worth it. And I have been. Long before I was ever good at committing in my love life, I was high. I always thought I had a big problem with commitment. And what I didn't quite realize was that I was. I had already been married to. I'd been in a marriage for a good 10 years of my life that I had been faithful to in this organization I'd created, in the work that I do. So it turns out I was quite good at committing when I had a big enough reason. And I think that in relationships that one of the greatest things we can have is really start with a big enough reason to want to listen to that person have a problem today, to want to wake up and see if you can anticipate a little bit what might make their day better, what might make the relationship a bit stronger. That to me is everything. And I think if you. I am more connected today to why this relationship is important than I've ever been in my entire life.

What is the reason why it's important to you?

It makes my whole life better. Everything. Everything good in my life is made better by my relationship with my wife. And everything bad in my life is made easier by my relationship with my wife. She is the. The. The amplifier for all good things and a balm for all bad things. And so she's like this core asset in my life, this core thing that. That has this wonderful effect on everything else. And, and, and so for me, I. It's just so if I'm resentful or if I'm feeling annoyed or I'm. I've lost sight of the bigger picture, which is like, dummy, this. Your life is so like, you have forgotten how much better your life is because this person is in it.

What do you do in those moments, like when. When you have a moment, you're in your relationship, you get resentful and you start pushing one way or the other. How do you realign and remember why you were there in the first place? Do you have frameworks or tactics you use?

I do. I have a. This is where we could really end up geeking out. But I have. These things I call emotional buttons, and they are. This is a big module on my retreat, but it only became a module on my retreat because I had been using it in my life for so long that I felt like I can't not talk about it. But when we feel an emotion and, and it's a good emotion and we want to feel it again, it's really, really important to just like Hit pause and go, what's. What's happening right now? Is there a. Is there a kind of set of ingredients right now that has led to me feeling this way? And it can be. You know, it can be something really simple. I mean, there's a. There's a. In that movie the Fighter with Mark Wahlberg and Forget the other guy's name, but they're two. It's about two brothers, really. It's about this relationship between two brothers. And there's this moment where Mark Wahlberg is about to get in the ring for this big fight, and his brother. His older brother is. Is stood there with him, and he puts his forehead against Mark Wahlberg's head, and he's just talking to him. But I get goosebumps as I'm saying it, because he. He's talking to him, but he's being like. He's making him feel safe in a moment where he's. There's so much going on and so much noise and there's so many nerves, and his older brother is really there for him in that moment. And it became this instant kind of emotional button for me for why I wanted to be a good brother. It's almost like bypassed logic, right? It's just. I saw a thing, and it instantly, I was like, I want to be a better brother. I want to be an. I've got two younger brothers, and one of three like that. That is an image of the. The way I want to be a brother to my younger brothers. And. And the thing I love about emotional buttons is that they bypass. You know, I don't have to write an essay to myself on my why for wanting to be a good brother. And an emotional button just bypasses that. All I need to do is call back that image, that moment. And sometimes it's the music from that moment, if you want to use music. Sometimes it's the picture of that moment. Sometimes it's the literal YouTube clip of that moment. But I can literally go back there. Now. A lot of us do this unconsciously anyway, right? We have songs we listen to to put us in a certain state, and we have videos we like to watch that pump us up. And so. But what I'm suggesting is much more granular than that. It would be too. It would be too simplistic to describe it as motivation. I have emotional buttons for so many different, very nuanced things in my life. I have emotional buttons for being a great brother. I have emotional buttons for socializing, because guess what? I'm an introvert who Has a. You know, socializing for me takes a lot of energy, but I have emotional buttons that I've written down that make me want to socialize when I reconnect with them. So to your point, circle back. I have lots of emotional buttons for wanting to be an amazing partner and for how wonderful my relationship is and how lucky I am and the kind of husband I want to be to my wife. I have emotional buttons, and they're not things I've conjured out of thin air. That, that's the beautiful thing about emotional buttons. You're actually working with things. You tapping into nerves you've already touched before just by paying attention and recording the formula. Winston Churchill said, men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up and carry on as if nothing happened. And I would say anytime we stumble over a moment of peace, a moment of love for our spouse, like an uncommon moment of love for your spouse where you just. Sometimes Audrey has a laugh. There's a. I've never told her this, actually, but there is a certain kind of, like, guttural laugh she has. Almost like a dirty laugh that she has when you really make her laugh. I'm not funny enough to make her laugh like that every week, but, like, when I do is the greatest thing on earth. Like, I live for that laugh. Wow. And something about that laugh, hard to even put into words, but there's something about that laugh that makes me love her so much. So me just remembering that under my emotional buttons for my relationship with Audrey would be that deep, like, guttural, dirty laugh she does when she's really find something funny, I think of that. I feel love for Audrey. Now as I'm saying it, I feel.

Love for Audrey as you're saying it. This is contagious. I want to hear that laugh.

But that's. Well, by the way, I mean, then we get into a whole other territory there, because that's, you know, that's why our favorite teachers at school were our favorite teachers is because they were able to actually pass emotional buttons onto us. They loved something so much that there was a way of talking about it, a way of describing it, that they may have even been able to infect us with their emotional button. So I, I, if you were to open up my, my laptop, there's a file called emotional buttons, and it's broken down by all of the different things that I want to feel. Because, like Winston Churchill said, I never stumble over an emotion.

Wow.

Or a moment without just stopping and going, why do I feel so good right? Now what is this? What's happening? How. What's the little formula that's going on here that I need to pay attention to so that I don't have to wait until I stumble back over this by accident?

That's so good. It's almost like muscle memory when you're working out how you know you're supposed to pay attention. Like right now I really am trying to flex my left glute because I want to activate it. And when I feel that, like you can feel it, but. But if you haven't actually paid attention to it before, it's hard to separate one muscle from another one. You could just be this cacophony of muscle movements, think you're working out and actually not target at all the right areas.

That's exactly right. Because. Because the button you would use to feel energized and like, let's go. Is a different thing than maybe just contentment, right?

Or peace, and you might not know why. And so then you become this series of accidents like you talk about where you're. You don't know why your emotions are so all over place. You don't know why you're feeling this way today or not. As opposed to like. I do recognize that I feel anxious in this moment, which happens just about every time I have two and a half cups of coffee and. And I don't get a good night's sleep because I sleep better with my spouse. That's a huge. That is such a powerful unlock. I'm gonna start doing that because literally.

You know, there's almost no tool that I use more in my life than I have a. I have a little day planner that I, you know, put my to do's in and whatnot. And if you could open it up now, you would see that every day, the first thing. And I'm not someone who's like a thousand morning routines and all of that, but like, there is this one thing that I tried to do. I don't always get it done, but I tried to spend just five minutes in the morning, open up my emotional buttons file, and just pick a selection to engage with. Because it's like having a kind of treasure trove of all of these things that tap into beautiful states that, that bypass logic and just make me feel like I feel very, very abundant when I look at them.

And you know what else I like about it? It's really simple. Like if I think about my husband, he. He notices them more. He has much better self awareness and body awareness than I do. And so when. When he gives me a hug and he does this, like, deep breath kind of hug thing, that if anybody else did it to me, it would totally freak me out. But when he does it, it's like, I just feel down regulation. I immediately am like, oh, that just got rid of all this stress I didn't realize I had. And it was just this big hug that I got from him. And if you. If you asked me that question, what do I think would lead to a happy marriage or what's my deep why? I would have gone cerebral. I would have said, because this is your partner through life, and they're there for difficult times, and remember that. But it's way more powerful actually to feel it.

Well, yeah, and you're right, by the way. You're absolutely right. That's a perfect answer. I. What I like about what you're describing is if is the why, right? Like, if you had a table, it would be like, on this side is your actions, and on this side is your why for taking that action. Why am I going to take an action in my relationship today? Actions take effort. Actions take energy. Why? How can I get myself to do this thing? And, of course, as much has been written on starting with why. And, you know, a friend of mine, Simon Sinek, has, like, led that charge. And. But what I'm intensely interested in is the bridge between action and why. How. How can we get to the why quicker? What's like the. The main line where you can just push a button, and that button is an instant trigger for your why without you having to go through the process of every time you need to connect with your why sitting there and going, I'm going to journal about what my why is in this area. What's like the instant, like, connector switch. And for me, that the middle column between those two is emotional buttons.

That's so good. Now, let's say that somebody's listening and they're like, all right, I'm not with somebody yet. Or a lot of people, I think are with somebody, and they're super unhappy. Like, I know a lot of married people these days who say, I get it a lot from men, actually. Man, I wish my wife worked as much, you know, as you did. I wish she understood the business. You know, she's not as supportive with working all the time. So I guess my question is, is it better to have no spouse than an unsupportive spouse?

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Yes, but it depends what we mean by unsupportive. Like what to what extent? How do we define unsupportive? Because there's so much to say on this. Firstly, if we start from a place of. There are many different ways to live a good life. And charging forward with a business that energizes and excites you is one potential route to a good life. So is being a teacher. So is having a hobby that you love, that you lose yourself in. So is being someone who's just very into creating peace in their life and doesn't need to be racing around all the time in order to be happy.

Sounds nice.

There's the, you know, I'm. I'm one of the things I'm not to be too soft, referential. I want to be careful. But I am the kind of type A, like have always been that hyper ambitious charge after it. One of the things I've been most grateful for is having someone who also brought a different energy to the table. And I think that sometimes we live so much in our little, like narrow lane of how we live our lives that we don't realize actually there might be some real merit to the way that someone else prioritizes differently than we do. And that might be just the kind of medicine that we need to help balance us out a little bit. So sometimes what people define as unsupportive I think is someone with values that says I. For me, a good life isn't working day and night. That's not what a good life is to me. So then, and I would say there's nothing wrong with that. It might even be healthier. But the question is, then, okay, so then how do these two worlds mesh? Is this person sort of this active impediment to certain goals that you have that are really important to you and takes no time to understand or see where you're coming from or what you're trying to do and why it's so important to you? And are you someone who can't stand the fact that they live life differently than you?

Yeah.

Even when they're not necessarily asking you to be anything else. You know, if they want to build out their days differently. That's their prerogative. I think that there's a, there's an arrogance among a lot of entrepreneurs and people who, who start things up that they think if, if you don't like, if you're not on board, you don't get it and you don't support me. And it's like, no, you being with an entrepreneur is a nightmare. Yeah, it's a nightmare. It's like you, like many of them are workaholics. They never stop. It's. They're always talking shop. They can't get their brain off the business. They're in anxious states a lot of the time because it's like, a lot of the time it's make or break and you feel this immense pressure and stress and, and also, let's be real, there is something wildly selfish about being an entrepreneur.

Like that irrational is.

It's a, like people I'm doing this for. No, you're doing this for you. Most people are doing it because they want. It's your dream. It's a bit like someone, we think when it's building a business that somehow people get a bit more righteous about it. But if someone moved to, if someone's partner said, I'm going to go and act in Los Angeles, but I'm doing this for us, you'd be like, no, I support you and I love you. And if this is going to make you happy, then let's figure it out. But don't, don't tell me that you're moving to, you're moving to Hollywood and making less money and doing all of these auditions for us. This is your dream. And I think we have to be very careful when we have a thing that we want to do, when it's important to us or our sense of significance or our sense of purpose or our ego that we do this and then we want to be mad at someone else because they don't get it and they don't, they're not like on board with us. A team is one where I recognize your goals and you recognize mine. And we both really, really care about each other's goals. And, and we're, and we really look at both all those goals and we say, look, I get this is really, really important to you. How do we make this work? Like, what can I, what can we do? And you do the same for me. It's not one sided. We do it for each other. That's a healthy relationship. But I, I get a little like frustrated with all of the people out there who have decided that they're going to go on this, like, crazy mission, and then they're mad at their partners for having questions.

It's actually, when you say it that way, it's so true. You know, do you think, you know, it's interesting. You talk to a lot of women about dating and how to not settle in their relationship and in the love that they found or find. What is, what is your best advice for women on making sure they don't settle?

To cut to the core of it, be very, very honest with yourself about what makes you happy. Because we tend to settle for things when we're not actually being honest about what's going to make us happy. So, for example, you, you, you start seeing someone who is, you know, charismatic and sexy and, you know, makes you feel alive and, you know, you have a great time with them. You feel this amazing connection. But let's say there are some major catches. They don't want a relationship. They can continue to see other people. They are extremely inconsistent with their communication. They are completely out of sight, out of mind when you're not with them. So you never feel safe. You constantly feel anxious. You don't feel like you can ever fully hold on to them. It never really feels like you're together. And so you're living for the next time you're with them, which is amazing when it happens, but it's miserable when you're not with them. And even when you're with them, if you're honest, it's kind of miserable on some level because even though you're happy, you just can't keep looking at your watch going, when is this going to end? I know it's going to end in a few hours, and then I might not hear from them for another week or two like that. In that situation, which is extremely common, we are incredibly unhappy. And we are lying to ourselves that we're happy. And we settle for that because we say, I can't give them up. They make me happy. They don't make you happy. They make you really, really unhappy. You feel anxious, you feel unloved, you feel forgotten about, you feel unimportant. You don't even feel chosen because they're not even telling you that they're going to be with you to the exclusion of other people. You don't feel safe. You, you are unhappy. You're telling yourself you're happy. It's not true. And the greatest, to me, a great piece of advice is the next time you go out to date Ask yourself, okay, before I even meet someone I'm attracted to, what was missing last time around that. Because that thing was missing. No matter how wonderful I thought that person was, because that thing was missing. I was miserable. It was a version of hell and anyone. Look, I've been in a relationship before where I did not feel safe. I felt anxious all the time. I was constantly feeling insecure. I. And I really didn't want to lose the relationship. And I was so unhappy. Even one of my dear friends, my publisher, Karen Rinaldi at HarperCollins, she said, I came to see you one day during that relationship. And, you know, I. I left and I caught my. Spoke to my sister. I know her sister as well. She said, I spoke to my sister, and my sister said, how's Matthew? And she said, he is not happy. Like, I can see it in his face. He is not happy now. At the time, I would have told you, I'm great. I was miserable. I just didn't want to admit it to myself because then I'd have to do something I was scared of. Yeah, but. Which is, by the way, either leaving or speaking up for yourself. But we're afraid to speak up for ourselves because we think that if we speak up for ourselves, then it's going to spell the end of the relationship.

Right?

That person's. We're. We're only going to keep that relationship if we continue to keep our needs very, very small.

Yeah, well, it's.

And not ask for a lot.

And heartbreak is just once you've felt it, it's, you know, you have ptsd, you don't want to feel it again. And it can feel so heavy and overwhelming. And so I get why we. We delay. You know, it's like anything, when something fails or breaks, whether it's in business or in love, it sticks with you. And so, you know, you actually help a lot of women with the worst case scenario, theoretically, which would be heartbreak. What do you do to help somebody through a broken heart? Or what do you tell them so that they get over the ptsd?

And by the way, like, I should say this because I don't. I know you have tons of men in your audience. Actually, these days, we're a very mixed audience. Like, we, we have everybody. I, you know, I used to address more videos to women. These days, I kind of remove the pronouns from it because I'm like, everyone's here.

Plus, we can do that in 2025. Last year you could do it, but this year you can.

No, I just. I stopped. I'M like, this is. This is so universal. This is so for everybody. I'm not like, there. We have a huge gay audience. We have a huge male audience. We have women. We have everybody. So I'm like, humans. Yeah. Heartbreak is something we all go through, and it's, you know, the. The heartbreak. There's a difference between acute heartbreak and chronic heartbreak. And. And chronic. Acute heartbreak is what we all go through when we experience a big loss in our lives and the heartbreak where someone leaves us and we didn't want them to leave us, especially. I mean, although we can still get heartbroken when we're the one leaving and doing something that we feel is right for us, but we're going to miss someone. It's a form of grief. And, you know, as my friend David Kessler says, who's the number one grief expert in the world, grief is nothing but a change we didn't want. And that in heartbreak, we experience the grief of this loss of somebody, and we have to. We have to work through that grief. That's acute heartbreak. Chronic. And by the way, everyone moves through acute heartbreak. Chronic heartbreak is what takes over when we can't seem to get out of it, when it sticks with us. And it sticks with us because it becomes a story. There's the fact I lost someone. That's hard. I'm having to adjust. I miss them. I even miss the chemicals that flood my body when I have someone in my life. I miss the routines. I feel lonely when I'm by myself. I. I'm sad about the history that I've lost. I'm disappointed that the future I thought was going to happen is not the future that I'm being presented with, that it's going to be a different future than the one I had planned. That's all acute heartbreak. But. But when we create a story that makes that heartbreak never end, that's when it becomes chronic. So, for example, a story would be, they were the love of my life, or they let me correct that they are the love of my life, and they left. So now, within that one statement, you have a recipe for chronic heartbreak. Because now, no matter whether it's year one, year three, or year five, the love of my life is out there somewhere dating other people, getting married to somebody else, living their life, and they're not with me.

Does that happen a lot? Do a lot of people.

For sure, yeah, there's that. Because we. We go on believing they're the love of my life. And the truth is, they're not the love of they, they were a love in your life. But that you have to define what does, what does it really mean for someone to be the person that's right for you? It has to surely involve them saying yes to you.

So a lot of this is like definitions.

Well, it's really important to say if someone doesn't choose me, they cannot be my person. There's no such thing as my person is out there. They're just not choosing me. That does not make sense. By definition, the right person for us is the person who sees what's valuable about us. It's the person who chooses us. The right person can never be the person who doesn't choose you. But as long as you tell yourself, my right person broke up with me, the love of my life broke up with me, and you hold on to that story, then you'll stay heartbroken.

Never thought about it that way. It's like if you don't know what you want, then you're going to keep repeating your patterns and you're going to think that you're happy and in love. But that's really just because you have a definition problem. And if you keep feeling like your heart is broken and you'll never get over this person, that's also a definition problem. And that's fascinating. So I think a lot of times lately what I hear is people saying, and I'll just go back to women because I am a woman and, but replace this with a man. And I'm sure there's something different, which is like men don't like women who are X. So like, I want to play that game with a few of these. For instance, do men not like women who are intelligent?

Well, I. Some men are threatened by women's intelligence, that's for sure. Other men won't date a woman who's not intelligent. I, but I think to do, to give credit to that statement, there's an awful lot of men who are already coming to the table with a chip on their shoulder and they are trying to figure out where their significance comes from in life. And so when they come along and you're intelligent, it's one more way that I'm not good enough. It's one more way that you're highlighting a deficit for me. And, and for those men, the intelligence is not high on their list because connection isn't high on their list. What's high on their list is feeling significant. Like, I know that for me and most of the men I know, the having, being able to have great conversations with someone is an absolute must for a long term relationship. They want someone they can shoot the with, they can see a movie with and leave that movie and be like, what did you think? And that person goes, oh my God, when that thing happened and I really thought it was interesting in this way. And so on. Not that was good. Like they're like, wait, what? No, let's talk about most of the people I know want that kind of a connection and are cerebral people. So they would struggle not to have that kind of connection. So for them is. But if they're going into, I'm not saying they don't have their insecurities, but if they're going into a relationship going, I, I want a genuine connection with someone. And intelligence is important to me. Intelligence is actually a must for them. But if you're going in to, if you're going into dating women and your goal is not a connection, your goal is validation. Your goal is significance. Then the moment someone's intelligent, you're like, this is, you know, I'm not going to get my significance here. And then add to that. If someone feels like they don't make enough money or they're not tall enough or they're not any. Whatever it is they've told themselves they must be in order to be defined as a significant and attractive male, then any of those markers can immediately throw someone off balance. And so I think that's what happens isn't a women's intelligence throws a lot of men off balance when they're already coming from a place of insecurity.

You know, you do such a good job and this is why I like your content so much of being able to see both sides of the gender and being able to see different types of humans without a lot of judgment, but saying like, well, if their highest value is X and your input is Y, you're gonna have Z equation. And like we're not making judgments on it. It just is what it is. Kind of goes back to your, that that makes sense. Your core point is I don't want to be right. I want to find what's true. And so I think that's why you seem to resonate resonate with so many people because you're like, I'm not zeitgeist. I'm not saying something to be clickbaity over here because I want to trigger somebody. I'm saying here's, here's the truth that I found for any type of human. But it's really helpful because you don't hear that side as often.

Thank you, that's very kind. It means a lot. I, I, I think there's a, I really do see, I do see from both sides what's happening. And, and it's not, no one is, there's, there's fault on both sides, you know, that there is, you know, I work with women every day who are themselves valuing the wrong things, who themselves are putting too much of a premium on something that doesn't matter or who have forgotten that, hey, it's an extremely immature place to come from to think that a guy has to come to you bold and confident in every way when you're not 16. He doesn't like, it's not stop waiting for the captain of the football team to walk through the door as this, you know, paragon of this model of confidence. And he wasn't even that then put.

Down the romance novel for a second.

This is a 16, you know, like this is a 16 year old perception of the captain of the football team. He wasn't, he hadn't, he didn't have it all figured out and he was insecure. He just covered it up in a whole bunch of other ways. It's like we, the, you know, there, there are, there are women out there who are not paying enough attention to the nuances in men or realizing that, hey look, there's, there are guys who are intimidated by everything. And that's a certain percentage of guys who can't handle a woman making money or more money than them, who can't handle a woman who's pretty, who they think could leave them, who can't handle someone who is intelligent or accomplished that is too much for them. And then, you know, for a lot of people there, they become quite angry. Not everyone, but a lot of people do become quite angry. And then yes, there's a small percentage of guys who for whatever reason they're wiring their upbringing, whatever they assets they naturally have, are wildly confident and are very at ease with themselves and with women. There's a lot of people in the middle, which is the biggest group by far, who are just trying to figure out like where do I fit in and where is what is my value. And I think that value in a relationship is a team sport. I think we hear the rhetoric all the time, like you have to come whole and you have to figure, have figured out all of your stuff and you have. And I, I find that to be such a gross oversimplification. I think we all, who doesn't come to a relationship with insecurities, who doesn't Come with a little, like, baggage or like someone did something and it made you a bit jealous, and now you feel threatened and you don't know how to articulate it, and you don't. It's. We all come with something. Some people come with trust issues. Some people come with a bit of a feeling of like a guy might come to the table and he. He's always been told his whole life that he's not that bright. And so he comes to the table with a. An insecurity. It doesn't make him a bad guy. I come to the table feeling not like. Feeling like I've always been put down in that department. And so now, and. And by the way, combine that with a low socioeconomic background, and I didn't. I couldn't go to college or whatever it might be, and I now have a bit of a propensity to think that someone who has gone through education and does come from money or whatever is a certain way. And it sometimes takes two people to come together and. And dissolve those. Those caricatures we have of each other and those ideas we have of each other and those assumptions to make us, like, drop our guard and go, oh, I don't need to. I don't need to be that. And of course, again, one of the reasons why it's difficult today is because whatever you look for, you can find it. If you want to find women who don't think, who discriminate against men constantly because of their height, you'll find it. There's plenty of them. You'll find it. But that's not all women. It's not. Not all women care. And some women who do care realize later on, I don't care with this guy because he's awesome. And I suddenly stopped caring because why on earth would I give up this incredible man? Like, it's you. There's a part in my book where I talk about the idea of the wall and how one of the reasons why we keep, you know, finding the same people or the same situations over and over again is because we're so focused on this wall that we want to avoid. And, you know, Mario Andretti said it, the Formula one driver. You know, when you're racing a car, don't stare at the wall because the car goes where your eyes go. And that is just true in so many aspects of life that we stare at the wall. You know, I had a woman who said, I'm. I'm. She was dating a guy, she said he was lovely. She was having a great time. With him. And then one Saturday, he didn't invite her to a little get together between him and his friends. And she had massive issues with abandonment. And so when he didn't do that, she thought about it for two nights and couldn't sleep. And then the day of, she texted him, and she said, you know, in the middle of this get together, she was like, why didn't you invite me? And he said, I'm so sorry. I didn't think it would be a big deal. I just haven't seen these friends in a while. Can I give you a call later? And by this point, like, her nervous system was fully hijacked, so she said, don't bother now. Every day that he obeyed that wish and didn't call her felt like a validation of the thing that everyone always leaves me. I'm not good enough. I'm not worthy. I've been rejected yet again. But that's always been her wall. And you stare at that wall long enough, it's like a guy who goes into a bar thinking everyone wants to fight him.

Yeah, it's true.

You'll always. If you're that guy, you'll always look for the guy who's giving you a funny look, and you'll always find that guy, because there's always a guy who's willing to give you a funny look and. And who's ready to fight, because that's his thing. So then you find that every. That guy finds that guy everywhere he goes and says, you. You know, it's dangerous. Everywhere you go is dangerous. And I had a little bit of that grow, you know, like, I had to work on that for myself, because it's. I grew up with a sense of, you know, I grew up around nightclubs, and my dad was a nightclub owner, and I was working in a nightclub from a young age, and it was. I saw a lot of, like, violence and people being horrible to each other, and it kind of got my, like, my nervous system up. And so I was a fighter. I was someone who never wanted to fight.

But you did.

I was someone. No, here's. Here's the crazy part. I hated the idea of fighting with a passion, but my hobbies for my whole life were boxing, Brazilian jiu jitsu, Muay Thai. Like, I was. Because that's when you get preoccupied with something. Oh, yeah, you. You start making it more and more and more of a focus. Now, I still do Brazilian Jiu Jitsu because I love it, but it's not coming from the place it once did, which is. I Always have to be, you know, like. Because anything can happen at any time. And then when you're looking for that. And I wrote a whole story in my book about it where I was, like, in Japan with my brothers, and one of my brothers was, like, singing karaoke in this bar in Japan, and everyone's having a good time. And I spotted because that was my hyper vigilance. I spot the one guy in the room who's giving my brother this funny look, and I, in my brain, I'm like, something's gonna happen any minute. Something's gonna. This is gonna kick off. Like. And I. And my brother's the sweetest, most loving. He's like, by the way, six foot, four, five, whatever, does not need me to protect him. But in my older brother brain, I'm like, I got. This is gonna kick off. And my brother doesn't realize. And this is the problem. No one else is paying attention. I'm the only one who' paying attention. So I'm the one. I ended up saying something to this person. And of course, the way that I said something to this person instantly created a situation because I wasn't sweet and nice and whatever, and I spoke with a certain tone that made this person be like, I'm sorry. Like, now. Now we're in something. So, like, yeah, that's an example of, like, you're looking at the wall and crashing into it every time. And if you. If you stare at your personal wall for long enough, whether it's that danger is always present, whether it's that no one can be trusted, whether it's that people always cheat, Men are bad, women are bad. Whatever that wall is, if you stare at it for long enough, you won't realize it's the wall anymore. You'll think it's the world. And when once your wall becomes your world, you now, it's not. You don't go, this is what life is like for me. Or this is. You go, this is what life is. This is what men are. This is what women are. And that's what you have. So much of what's online right now is people who have made a decision about who women are.

Yep.

Because they're focused on their wall, and they keep speaking to other people who have the same wall and confirming, isn't this right? Isn't this reality? Isn't this reality? Isn't this reality? And they all agree, yes, it is. This is women. And then you've got women doing the same thing about men, and you've got that. And meanwhile, Somehow there are all these relationships in the world between people who just actually really love each other and don't think about any of this. How is that possible? And people say, oh it's because they know that's because they're good looking and that's because really you want to go around the world and look at every couple you see and tell me that their magazine like level looks and that they all fit the stereotype of people who've got it all together or who are rich and gorgeous and intelligent and funny and no, no. Every day, every day people with the same excuses as you find relationships and that doesn't mean by the way, you should shame yourself for not finding one. Because the reality is finding love is hard. It is hard. There is nothing easy about finding the person you you're going to share a room with for the rest of your life. That is not an easy thing. And the people who do it early and stay together, more power to them. Lucky like if you you met in College at 21 the love of your life and you didn't sell, you're just genuinely happy forever. Good for you. That is not normal. Most people marry the wrong person too early, stay in unhappy relationships too long for half their lives until they finally get out if they ever do or never find anyone. Because it's hard. It is hard. So I don't want to not, I don't want any of what I'm saying to come across like I'm saying it's easy and we're just making excuses and all. No, no, no, no. It is hard. But the I know for sure the route out of that is not to huddle together with people who have all the same hang ups that we do and confirm that this, this world I'm living in is the only reality that is available because it's just, it's simply not true.

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That's so good. It's perfect because I'm thinking about a family member right now who is lovely, who I really want to find somebody but I think she is looking at the wall and her wall is men don't want to be in serious relationships. Men don't actually want to be with a working woman. They don't exist in my city, they exist in other cities. And if you just maybe allow that wall to become a curtain that you could potentially push aside for a second and see if there might be something on the other side, God, maybe your entire life would change. And it kind of takes me the. One of the last things I want to talk about, which is you've, you've found this, you found that there's thousands or millions of people all around the world who have, you know, hundreds of thousands of questions about how do I find someone? And so you did something a little crazy, which is you created Matthew AI, which is essentially AI that takes all of the data and all of the experiences that you've had in your books and all of your courses and puts it into one spot where people can go back and forth with you to figure out their unique answers to their questions. Right.

Yeah.

Can you explain what that is? Exactly.

So the biggest challenge I've ever had in what I do is that for 17 years, people have been asking for one to one coaching with me.

Yeah.

Or even if they never felt like that was available to them, DMing me with questions. You know, I could be on a live with thousands of people and I'm getting thousands of questions all at the same time. And everyone wants an answer to their specific question. And we all are at different stages of life, having different challenges, we have different walls. All of us have a contextual question that we're like, okay, I get it. But here's my situation and I have never been able to solve that until the last year. I'd never had an antidote to that other than to create courses and programs that catered to as many people as possible. But obviously the optimal would be that I would go and visit everyone individually in their home, sit with them and work with them. What we created with Matthew AI was for the first time a way that I could actually do that. Because as you say, we took 20 years of my content, courses, retreats, all the things, by the way, 99 of my audience have never taken. Most people watch me on YouTube or Instagram. They literally are just scratching the surface of all of the things that I actually coach when I work with people. People. But it took all of that and it put it into Matthew AI. And now Matthew AI is this service. Anyone who wants to try this, by the way, can try it for free@askmh.com you can spend a few minutes with it, just aren't asking questions and see people who are using it are routinely having their minds blown by how tailored the advice is that it's not like generic. It's my advice first off. So you're not just getting advice from the Internet, but how specific it is to their situation. Whether it's, I literally need to know what to text back right now. Can you help me with a text? Or my dating profile isn't getting matches, can you help me redesign it? Or I have anxious attachment and I really like someone and I feel like my anxiety is going to blow it in the first few weeks or months of dating, or I'm heartbroken and I literally need to talk to a coach for three hours every single day for the next two months. Like, it is helping people with both the very practical issues that they're going through where they need to know what to do or what to say or how to decode something, what it means. People are uploading text message chains and going, what does this mean? Like, how do I interpret what they're saying? All the way to the much deeper issues of how do I heal, how do I move on? How can I stop thinking about this person? How can I get through the worst time of my life? So. And it, by the way, is doing it in all different languages. We have people like, literally, you'll hear my voice. If you. You want to text it, you can text it.

I already did this, by the way. I already had some fun with Matthew AI. We had. And we tried to make it, like, mess up too, because I thought that would be fun. And it did it. You know, I was like, you know what if I'm really into cheating? And also I want to sell the other person. Person's feet pics. And it was like, he was like, that's not a good idea. And it's really important in relationships that we have it based on honesty and integrity and blah. And I was like, this guy.

It didn't just support your.

No, it didn't just. Which is really important. You know, sometimes, you know, you want to make sure. If you have friends, what do friends do? They're like, yeah, sure, yeah, you're the. You're the best. He's wrong. It's him, not you. And I think what I liked about this in particular is I could see. See how people could come to it. And it is actually very emotionally hard to give advice that is needed, not what is wanted. And if you're not a pro and you just go to your buddies, you're never going to hear the things that you really need unless you have it. One very rare, strong willed human who's also highly trained in it. And so I had fun seeing that they could have a version of you who also is not always the, the nicest, the kind, but not always, you know, exactly. Maybe what somebody wants.

No, it's real. And, and because it's what I would say. It's, it's. You're hearing what I would say to you if you asked me that question. And it's, and, and to your point, by the way, it's not just that it will be honest with you, it's that you can be truly honest with it. Because I have people who tell me there are things that I can ask Matthew AI and share that I would never ask my friends or it's far too vulnerable for me to say this to anyone in my life. I even have a very small group of clients that I work with over the course of a whole year called Club320. And I have women who are in that group who tell me, I can access you as a coach. Like every month we have a call together, they're like, I know I can ask you a question. And there are questions I've still asked Matthew AI because they are so intimate that I know, like I, I just can't ask you directly, which they can, but they don't want. You know, it's like some people are like feet pics. Yeah, yeah. When it's regarding the sexualization of their feet. But they'll, they'll go and ask Matthew AI something that they wouldn't even ask me. So it's a very, very, like, it's discreet, it's tailored, it's contextual, it's immediate. You're not waiting a week for an answer. You couldn't even the clients that I'm closest to can't call me at 2am Whereas if you're in the middle of the night, you can't sleep and you're worried about like a situation you're in, or you're scared that you're going to text someone you shouldn't, or someone just sent you a text and it's got your heart racing. The Matthew AI is literally there in that moment to answer in the moment, which is what makes the biggest difference.

It's so cool. I think that's a real innovation. You were super early, like we were talking about before on YouTube, you know, 20 years doing this on the Internet. Real longevity and Expertise and then this new world of, you know, I think learning in the future is not going to be courses. It is going to be. I want hyper specific immediate feedback so that I can learn at my progress level and speed. And so I think it's really cool. And I hope more people do something like that because, man, like how incredible we quoted, I don't know, we had five or six quotes between us of some people that we think extremely highly of through history. What would it be like to get to conversate with the Winston Churchill?

It's literally like we said, like, I wish Christopher Hitchens was here. I would be. If I had Christopher Hitchens, if I had Hitch AI, I would be asking him like about every world conflict right now, every world leader. I'd be going, what do you think of this? Like, tell me, I just have to know. Like it's, there's something fascinating about that idea of get of. Especially in a world where it feels like everything has become so expensive. Like the democratization of access to someone that you really would like to speak to. That, to me is really exciting. The idea that someone who could not, who couldn't afford to come to one of my live retreats can still get access to me in that way is very, very comforting.

That's amazing. Well, thank you, Matthew Hussey. Incredible information about dating and marriage and maybe most of all the future of AI in a way that we could apply it to love. Who would have thought?

Thanks for having me. And it's real pleasure talking to you. I know you said some very kind things about me, but I'm not nice.

I'm kind. So I meant them.

No, I appreciate it and I feel that. And it's, it's clear to me, you know, why people really love what you do. There's a, there's a. You bring a real, to the point, cerebral but still compassionate voice to the things you're doing. It's, it's rare. What you're doing is rare.

Well, thank you. And same. And I want, we'll link everything in the show notes. I want people to follow Matthew everywhere around the Internet. I think the world is a better place if we all find a little bit of love. And I loved the line of like he said, I promise you right now, every single day, other humans just like you are finding love. And that's kind of beautiful in a world that cues a little bit more of it. Yeah. You guys want to know something crazy? Only about 40% of you who are listening to this right now are actually subscribed to the podcast. If you want to see bigger guests, better guests, and get the answers to more of your questions, do me a solid, hit the Follow or Subscribe button and the only way this podcast grows is by you sharing it with people. It's actually the hardest thing that I've ever grown this podcast. So do me one more solid, which is share this with somebody you love who you want to find love. All right, until next week, guys.

Hey guys.

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Sa.