“Bishop Kevin Foreman: Building Legacy Through Faith & Purpose”

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What's up, my good people? Welcome to the CJ Moneyway Show, where we build success brick by brick through Authentic Stories. I'm your host CJ Moneyway Johnson, entrepreneur, media creator, and believer in turning hustle into legacy. Each week we go beyond highlights and headlines, real people creating real impact in business, culture, and community. Today I'm joined by my man Bishop Kevin Foreman PhD. As we was just laughing behind stage, put some respect on my man's name before and after. A transitional leader who who turned Denver's so-called church planters' graveyard into fertile ground for growth. Beyond titles and accolades, his mission is clear: to lift others up and empower over 650,000 individuals, many women building lives through practical leadership and unbreakable, unshakable faith. Get ready to learn, be inspired, and take action towards your brick-by-brick journey. Hey, no longer ado, let's welcome my man Bishop Kevin Foreman, PhD, to the show. Hey, how you doing, Bishop, man?

Oh, thank you so much for having me. Listen, so glad to be with you today. That is funny, uh, how you said it. Much respect before and after.

But some respect before and after, man. You got— hey, you got to respect it, man. You got to respect it. And I appreciate you coming on the show, man, because it's not every day that you get the chance to chop it up, man, with a bishop, man, on your show, man. So, so I'm honored, man. I really am. Doc, man, thank you. Before I go, man, before I get there, man, you got so many— before I ask you a question, man, you got so many accolades and things that you've done in the community, man, especially in Colorado. Now I know, you know, I've never been to Colorado myself, uh, Bishop, because I don't really deal with the snow or the mountains like that, to be honest with you. But, um, I also know too that it's not predominantly, you know, us that's in Colorado. So 4%. Wow.

Yeah.

So that's even more amazing of the things that you accomplished there, man. So I just want to ask you a couple things about that, man. Just, you know, I know that you humbled and probably a lot of these things, you know, it's like, okay, that's cool because, you know, just your status. But man, being, uh, in the Hall of Fame, man, the Gospel Hall of Fame in Colorado, man, just tell us a little bit about that, man.

Yeah, you know, listen, it is one of those things where I used to ask God, because, you know, Denver is 46 out of 50 for lowest church attendance in the nation, and 4%, like I said, African American. So there is not a lot of ethnic and racial diversity. So I used to think to God, I was like, God, like, why do you have me here? And here it was, if you could do it here, you can do it anywhere. And sometimes what God does as a blessing to us is he deals us a bad hand. He deals us a bad hand so that we learn how to play that hand well, so that anywhere else we go and anything else we do, we know how to succeed. There was a movie, uh, Taken with Liam Neeson, that actor, years and years ago. And, uh, they had taken his daughter. And the scene is that his, uh, the daughter calls the phone and she's hysterical. She said, Daddy, they're coming to get me, they're coming to get me. And he said, look, look around, tell me everything you see. And she goes through the thing. They drop the phone. The guy picks up the phone. One of the guys that's taken his daughter picks up the phone and he can hear him breathing. He says, listen, I don't know who you are, I don't know where you from, he said, and I don't have any money to give you, he said, but I have a special set of skills and I'm gonna find you and I'm gonna get you. So what bad hands give us and what being set up with the deck stacked against us, I have a special set of skills. I can take nothing and turn it into something anywhere. And that's literally what we did in Denver. And now we moved our headquarters to Atlanta, which is a whole nother world when it comes to the whole set of challenges. But I got a special set of skills that I acquired in Denver to where I can do it anywhere.

Yeah, I mean, I know that movie too, because I think it's like, it's two of them, man. They did take it too. I think they did a sequel of that, man. I remember that movie, had a little girl on the phone. But man, like you say, your special set of skills, man. 4%, as you say, 4% of us in Colorado. But yet and still, man, through the grace of God, you became Colorado's Pastor of the Year, man. I mean, how, you know?

Yeah, you know, I just do the work. I think a lot of people talk about it. I just decided I was going to be about it. So, you know, I was born in Denver, raised in Memphis. So I come with that 901 Memphis energy where, you know, in Memphis, first of all, we got our own language. Like, we say mane, M-A-N-E, like ain't it mane.

We got our own language.

Uh, you know, you got some rappers and stuff now that, you know, so many groups and all that to come out of Memphis, but Memphis is its own thing. And I just do the work. So even when it came to Pastor of the Year, I just did the work. To me, it was like I don't want to just have church. I want to be the church. Let's impact the community. Let's impact people's lives. And let's make sure that if we were to no longer exist, it would matter. And so we did the work. And so we've given, you know, over 250,000 pounds of clothing away. Similar to that in terms of food that we've given away. Almost 30,000 toys we've given away. Almost $1 million in missions that we've given to organizations domestic and abroad to be a blessing to people. Almost 5,000 backpacks and school supplies. You know, the school districts would call us Back to School and say, "Bishop, we can't meet the need. We need y'all to step in and do it." We just made sure that we did the work. And as a result of that, that work was recognized. The Colorado Gospel Hall of Fame. I didn't know we had a gospel music hall of fame because there's so few Black people and people of color there. And so I didn't even know we had it. I just did the work. I wrote all of our songs. That's actually how I got into ministry. I got into ministry at the age of 12 as a drummer. And the only reason I got the drum set is a friend of mine, he and I were very competitive. So I do something, he do something. He do something, I do something. Like, that's just the nature of our friendship. So one year he gets a drum set. And so I'm like, I want a drum set. Now look, I couldn't play, had never played, didn't know the first thing about playing. I told my stepfather, I said, Justin got a drum set, I want a drum set too. And so I tried trombone, didn't like it. Tried trumpet, didn't like it. Tried saxophone, alto sax, didn't like it. I was like, "I'm gonna stick with the drums. I'm gonna stick with the drums." All those drums, I got good. Eventually started doing choirs and music and keyboards and all of that and leading large choirs and building choirs and stuff like that and praise and worship. And it just matriculated from there. All of the singles we've released, I wrote and executive produced them all. They've done amazing. But it was just one of those things of like, I have been a person who has just done the work. And I'll be honest with you, Only recently am I really recognizing the value of telling the story, because I'm the type, I just do the work. And I think you have to do both. You're gonna have to tell your story as well as maintain your success at the same time.

Mm. And you know what, Bishop, man, as you said that, I'm thinking about— I interviewed a guy the other day from New York, from the Bronx in New York, and we both had a connection with this guy Marcus Ogden. He played football, played for the Jaguars. And so he said, yeah, he said, CJ, he said, man, I watched— he said, I've seen the interview with you and Marcus. He said, I'm on his show in November. I said, yeah, I said, I'm on this show in November too. And he said, CJ, he said, man, I can't wait to see you on Marcus' show. He said, because I see you on your show, but I know that you got a story to tell too. And he said, I can't wait to see your story, man, that the story that you gotta tell. So what you saying that it make me think about, like, people can see me on this side interviewing Bishop, but Corey also got a story to tell itself, you know what I'm saying? That people want to hear, like, which leads me into this, man. Lead me into my question, Bishop. The man behind the title, you know, because beyond being a bishop, beyond being a doctor, it's also the man that had to come out, you know what I'm saying? The real you, the real you. So let me ask, man.

Yeah, you see, you see I'm filling up my— yeah, it's a journey, man.

So it's a journey, man. Hey, so let me ask you, uh, Bishop, before the pulpit, yeah, what was a defining moment that almost broke but ultimately built your faith?

Yeah.

You know, so growing up, you heard me mention my stepfather. My stepfather was like Ike Turner reincarnate. He was a womanizer. He was an abuser. And he was everything— seeing him was everything that I didn't want to be in a man, while simultaneously being able to learn and grow from him. Because that man could sell. You want to talk about a businessman? That man could sell. He would take your hat that you got on and sell it to you. And you'd be like, "I got a great deal!" Man, this is your hat. He was very charismatic, and he knew how to sell and how to make things happen and what have you. And so it was one of those scenarios wherein, you know, we really— I was able to learn a lot while simultaneously saying, man, this is not the man I want to be. And even as a kid, you know, I was parentified in the sense that I had to deal with a lot of adult stuff as a child. And it was really a gift. See, the thing about my mind is that I view all of these things that most people view as negative, I view them as a gift. See, I see rejection as protection. I see abandonment as assignment and acceleration. I see a valley as really a path to victory. It's these mental reshifts and resets of how you view things that really give you the courage, the tenacity to be successful in whatever you do. And so seeing that, it drove me to God.

Mm-hmm.

So when I would experience some of these things, that's what really drove me to God. The joke is I came outta my mom's womb with a Bible and a briefcase because since I was a kid, I had this affinity towards spirituality and business and success. And I saw that those two things worked together. I didn't see them as separate. A lot of times in culture, people like to separate those two. Like if I'm only spiritual, I can't be successful. And if I'm gonna be successful, I can't be spiritual. No, that's not Bible at all. Revelation 5:10 says he makes us kings and priests. And one man or one woman, whoever's watching right now, there's two realms in you. There's a king in you, or queen, and there's a king— uh, excuse me— and a priest in you, which means you're spiritual and you're successful. You can pray and you can slay. You can give God glory and you can go get that bag. Like, it's not either or. It's both and. So that was my mentality coming out of my mom's womb. I always saw things like that. And so like I said, I started my first business when I was 12 and got into ministry when I was 12. I started this business, it was an enterprise, you know, as much as I was going to do. I was going to do lawn care, tutoring, and a bunch of other things. And I did it. I got a business loan, it was a $600 loan from this bank called Young Americans Bank. In fact, In Denver, they still have my picture up. They have a second floor called AmeriTowne where they go train entrepreneurs and future leaders, and you have to walk upstairs to get there. Every entrepreneur that walks up those stairs has to see a Black man standing right there holding up his business plan because I was the first one. I pioneered the program. We created it. And so, you know, that was a lot of that though. I was driven to do those things, and I was driven to succeed because I saw I don't want to be that man. I don't want to be that man. So God gave me that as a gift to say, this is what I don't want to do. And so it was really pivotal to me because it really shaped how I approach life. The man I am is a man I built, not a man I saw.

I like that, man, you know, because as you saying that, I always say that my brother, he used to watch me. Yeah. And I got a lot of trouble, you know what I'm saying? You know, my father, mother, and he looked at my life and was like, you know what, man, I'm going down another path, you know. I'm not doing what he did and then getting to the stuff that he— and he did, you know. And so I'm listening to what you say. When you do view somebody and you see, you know, like, okay, I'm not gonna do that, okay, I do like this, but nah, I'm not going that way. His life, you know what I'm saying, as far as being a father, being a husband, you know, his life to start off was better than mine because I took the long way around, you know what I'm saying, to get to that point of being a husband and trying to be a good father, things of that nature, man. So it do matter what you see and, you know, saying things that you try to avoid in life too, man. Hey, so let me ask you, uh, Bishop, how did your upbringing shape the way that you lead today?

I think really good. Now, one of the things I'm going to start with, one of the things that is a double-edged sword in the sense that there's a positive side to it and I think also an unintended negative side to it. It parentified me, as I mentioned earlier. And what that really looked like was that I made a lot of decisions thinking like a father, and I ain't got no kids.

Mm.

And while that's good because that gives you a sense of responsibility, that's a good thing. So I'm a very consistent person. I'm a very disciplined person. If I say we're doing it, we gonna do it. Those were good qualities 'cause I was thinking like a father because for my brother and sister, I was really more of a father to them than I was a brother to them because of our scenario. But I also, like, I didn't do a lot of stuff a lot of kids would do, a lot of spending the night over friends' house and stuff. I didn't do a whole lot of that because in my mind, I got to be home because what happens if he, you know, what, depending on whatever drug of choice he's going to be on this week, what happens if he goes crazy? I got to be there for my mom. I got to be there to protect her. I got to be able to do that. So it gave me a lot of sense of responsibility. The unintended consequence of that was that I would consider people— and basically the best way to say it is I would set myself on fire to keep other people warm. So that was the unintended consequence of that. So there was a good side, and I won't even say bad, I just said there was an unintended consequence of that. But that upbringing taught me make it happen. That upbringing taught me don't let other people decide your life. So the moment I saw the power of making money and being successful. I said, that's my life.

Mm.

Because nobody is going to control my life. I'm seeing what control does. And that's too much power for one man to have over me. That's too much power for one man to have. So what it did is it drove me to be a creator. It drove me to be an entrepreneur. It drove me to be— your question is, how does it affect how I lead? It drove me to be an empowerer of people. So anybody that watches me, anybody that watches a message or sees a pop-up, you're going to be empowered. You're not going to get a slave gospel over here of woe is you and you a victim and, oh, mm-mm. You're going to get empowerment. You're going to be given the tools you need to change your life.

Hey Bishop, man, help me with this, man. I was just telling somebody this a couple weeks ago. Something came across my mind because I was thinking about leadership because I was going to be on a leadership podcast. Yeah. And so I was thinking about some stuff or whatnot and listening to what you just said. You said when you was younger, you had the you know, uh, look after your brothers and sisters, and then you have to take the responsibility, you know, to watch out for your mother. And so one thing that I was thinking about when I was telling somebody this was that a lot of times with leadership, you have to draw back on your childhood experience. Like, you know, being a leader, you know, a lot of us play sports, you know, you play football, you play basketball, you was the captain of the football team, or you was the captain of the basketball team, or, you know, you out there on the playground and, you know, you that leader, man. So You know, and then when you get older, sometimes you may— but I think that, you know, your consistency, you stay with it from 12 years old until you where you are now. But then some of us falter, you know, and not really know that it's a leader inside of them. But then when God puts you in a position, you know, you have to draw back on that. You'd be like, man, you know, and it's just me, that's why I'm asking you, you know, saying to clarify this for me. You sit back and be like, man, God had always equipped me with leadership abilities and leadership skills.

I just never followed the path.

In what God was taking me, you know what I'm saying? Because the Bible say, train a child the way they should go, when they get older they won't depart from it. But a lot of times we depart from some certain things in our life, you know what I'm saying? But God has, like you say, it's two people in you. It's the king and it's the priest, you know what I'm saying? You got two elevations going on, man. So clarify that for me, Bishop, man, a little bit.

Yeah, I think I love what you said because a lot of my straying was actually in my formative years, like I used to pray a crazy prayer. I'm just different. I've always been different. And I think you've been different. Like, you know, people who do different things are different people. The people who change the world are the people that other people say, "That man is crazy." Yep. He ain't gonna change the world. Like, world changers and history makers are often called crazy by regular people. So I never let regular people define me because you wouldn't get me. You wouldn't understand me because, you know, regular, regular wouldn't understand it. Even your viewers, your viewers, there's something unique and amazing about them. Because they connect with a message like what you're giving to help empower people. And I love what you said, brick by brick, because that's the way you do it. Like, it's brick by brick, and then you begin to scale it, right? So it's brick by brick, and then I learned, let me get a team together to come bring the bricks in. Like, you learn how to scale it and grow it and do it from there. And then you realize, look, I don't even have to own it, let me sub it out, and then my money make me money, you know, that type of thing. But to your question, um, I was a bad little boy. I was talking about this with my mother the other day. I was a bad little boy. My great-great-grandmother, who we called Mimi, she was in the Orange Mound Memphis community in Memphis, and she had a little shotgun.

MKG and 8-ball. Yeah.

Yes, sir. So my cousin was a member of Three-Six.

OK. Yeah.

But yeah, Orange Mound, so you already know. So I was bad. So she would say stuff, and I'd tell my little sis, we ain't got to listen to her. She ain't our mama. You know, I was just bad. I was very mannish. You know, I was—

That was me. That was me. That's me, man. That was me.

I was— I got some stories to tell.

That was me all day long, bitch.

You get it?

Yeah.

So I was that way. So I was that way as a kid and, you know, as a little boy. And really, all of this rambunctious, seemingly rebellious behavior, that was the leader in me. That didn't have anywhere to put that energy. So it came out in challenging a leader. And I think some people got it, you know, but, you know, a lot of times, especially like moms and sons and dads and sons, if your child is like rebellious or they are having some of those challenges, many times that's the leader in them that just needs focus. It's the leader in them that just needs direction. And so that was me. I was bad. When it came to that. I would do my own thing, you know. You tell me to step over here, I'm stepping over here. You say sit down there, I'm like, well, no, but why can't I sit over there? Like, you know, this type of thing. They have footage of me at weddings and stuff as a kid. Like, they would have to give me dollars to stand in the wedding pictures. They'd be like, hey, stand in the picture. Like, no, I don't want to stand in the picture. I'm not standing in the picture. Here go a dollar. All right.

And what was it?

It was just— there it is, that king and that priest. That spiritual and that success, all of that was always percolating on the inside. It just needed focus. And really, it was a lot of the, you know, things that I went up as a child, you know, growing up, all of that. That's what helped me focus. I took, I took what was meant for evil and like turned that for good.

Man, I like it, man, because you making me laugh. That was me too. Curious, manish. Yep. Was raised mother and father, but I still, you know, I, I still have some things, you know what I'm saying, in me. My mother raised me up in the church, taking me to church. But I'm gonna tell you, Bishop, even though my mother raised me in the church, you know, you get to a certain age, you know, they'd say you can go if you want to or not. What the Bible say, say he's of age, he can speak for himself, you know. So it's like you get to a certain point, mama like, hey, if you want to go, you want to go. If not, you you don't have to go. But it wasn't until my father— he was reading the Bible, you know, he started studying the Bible. He taught me— he the one showed me what a concordance was or whatever. The Bible say study thyself, uh, to be approved. So he used to be in the basement all the time, bitch, you know, just reading and studying. And at this point I was wilding out, you know, I was doing my thing. But so, you know, I seen what he was doing, but I really didn't have nothing to do with me. I'm out here in these streets, you know, I'm doing me. But as I look back, Bishop, man, and you know, my father had been passed away 10 years, uh, November 22nd. I think, man, November 22nd. But Bishop, man, as I look back at it, I think that was the turning point because, you know, before he passed away, we became real close, you know what I'm saying? Like, like real close. When I was a child, we was close. He used to take me to baseball games and things like that. But we became real close because, like you said earlier, like I do have kids and sometimes, you know, like my youngest, he's a 14-year-old. And so I'd be like, man, you know, I can't stoop down to a foot. You know, you worry like why my kids don't talk to me, why they don't do this and this and that. Because, I mean, because things that they talking about, I don't want to talk about what he talking about all the time, you know what I'm saying? Whatever, like we talk sports, but we just don't have a lot in common to talk about. And so I started thinking about that with my father. It was just things that we didn't have in common to talk about until I got in the word myself, Bishop. When I got in the word myself, now me and my father's relationship became better, you know, because now we can talk on the level that he was on, you know, although he was on another level, but we could talk on a level that he was on. And I think that changed my perspective of what a man actually does. What, like you said, you know, you got that leader in you or whatever, is that we do a lot of things in silence, you know, that goes unrecognized. But you the head and not the tail, above and not beneath. And as you were saying about your mother, a man, we are the protectors. And as I realize now, being a father, I told my oldest son that has a kid now, and he'll be telling his child the same thing, you know, that my father was telling me that I thought I wasn't paying attention to. But as protectors, man, as leaders, man, we have to get grounded ourselves so that we can show our children and our sons, you know what I'm saying, how to be men in this world, man. So that's something that I took out of that.

Yeah, you know, I just— if I can throw this on there, you know, while I don't have natural children— and actually, it's so funny because I had this conversation with my mother and grandmother on Sunday at brunch after church— is I've raised a lot of grown people. And so my assignment— everybody's assignment in the earth is different. Your assignment has come through natural children. That's not to say that I won't at some point, I got time. But for me, a lot of my assignment was from a very early age, I was always in the room with people who were older than me who looked to me to mentor, to guide, to direct. And so, you know, in the realm of the Bible, there's a scripture in 1 Corinthians that says, though you have many instructors, you don't have many fathers. So early on I took a very paternal type approach, which again goes back to childhood because I always thought like a father. So my nature when I would get around people was to be very paternal and fatherly. And so I can't tell you the number of stories— men, women of all ages— where I walked them through, not like just a pastor, not just a teacher, not just a leader, but walk them through life, walk them through challenges, walk them through all of that. And a lot of times, you just said, a lot of what we do, we do in silence and we do it behind the scenes. And that's been a lot of my journey. Is a lot of that development of people behind the scenes as a father would. And so I think recognizing that that is one of the greatest tools and most rewarding things you could ever do, I think is important too. And so to your point, having that word is the foundation.

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Things are going to change at the end of the day. What's popping and what's hot and what's fresh and what's not, that's going to change. Uh, what people are listening to, that's going to change. But that word is going to remain the same, especially if you just look around the world today. It's like everything is crazy. Check out the movement, family, real quick.

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Out of that way, he's saying the heavens and earth shall pass away.

Yes, sir.

My word shall remain forever. And that's something like you say, we gotta stand on, man, that solid foundation, man. So let me ask you, Bishop, man, were you off stage and out of the spotlight? What keeps you grounded?

Oh, this is good.

This is good.

So one, I think when you think of the concept of grounded, it's like, how do you not get caught up? You can't get high off your own supply, you can't get high off of your own press. And I think for me, it's recognizing a few things. That one, that God is responsible for it all, every ounce of success. Sometimes I just sit back and I just look over my life and say, God has been good to me. Even if I'm in a frustrated mode this morning I'm just going through my morning routine, having my protein shake, and I just start smiling real big while I'm looking out over the cities of Atlanta. And I said, God, you've been so good to me. I was like, sure, I got some stuff I got to deal with. Sure, I got some stuff that's frustrating me, but you've been so good. So one, I recognize that everything that I have, everything that I've done, everything that I will do, it's because of God. It's not just because of my education. It's not just because of my work ethic. It's not just because of my background, talents, or skills. And this is God. And somebody might say, well, how do I know that it's God? Well, just look at other people who are similarly situated and look at how much better you're doing. Look at how much more you are accomplishing. Look at— and then don't just judge it by stuff. Look at the state of your mind. Like, being in your right mind is a big deal because it's a lot of people— I don't know about you, but it's a lot of people that have lost their mind. They, they are gone. You're like, what planet are you on? What were you doing? And so number one is God. Number two, I recognize that the same people who celebrate me on Sunday might say crucify me on Monday. Same thing they did to Jesus. So I never buy into the hype. I never buy into the hype. I never buy into, oh, you know, okay. Which is why I'm just recently realizing I really need to start telling more of the story as it's continually in motion. A friend of mine said, he said, Bishop, he said, you know, it's a lot of people out here who talking about stuff they've never done. He said, you've done it all and you never talk about it.

Mm.

And I said, you know, that's a good point. He says, like, you got the receipts. He says, you have the receipts, and you don't talk about it. And so— but that's just because I don't believe the hype. I think God has been good, and I think I love when people celebrate me. But I also recognize that the people who celebrate you one day might crucify you the next day. Third thing that keeps me grounded is in recognizing that at the end of the day, life is a vapor, and it can change quickly. My grandfather, who— although he's my grandfather, he was my greatest spiritual son. Anything I gave him to do, he'd make it happen. And he passed away pretty unexpectedly. He bumped his head on a Monday, goes into the hospital on a Wednesday. Um, they say there's an aneurysm, but it'll be a quick procedure. Should take no more than an hour on a Thursday. By Friday, he's in a coma. By Saturday, emergency meeting. By Sunday, another emergency meeting. By Monday at 9:28, he's gone. They said he had the body of a 30 or 40-year-old, and, uh, he was in his late 70s. 77, in fact. And they said that he was in great shape, and just like that, unexpectedly, life changed. So what keeps me grounded is that life can change real fast. And so the best thing to do is enjoy the moment you're in, take in the moment that you're in, like celebrate this, but just recognize this stuff can change real fast.

I told you, man, I knew it. I said it from the beginning. I knew you was a humble man, so you really don't, you know what I'm saying, because it is what it is. Because your humbleness, you don't, you know, you're like, okay, you know, you just take it in. Because what he say, um, he say, I've been up and I've been down, I've been a base and I've been bound, but I learned through the two to be content with whatever situation I'm in. You know what I'm saying? Like, yes sir, you know, I don't get too high, I don't get too low, man, because as you were saying, because that word, it keeps you balanced, you know what I'm saying? Even in your most frustrating days you know that you can pull off of that. Because as you said, man, God been good to me no matter what today is, you know what I'm saying? Today may not be a good day, but it's a good day because the day that the Lord has made.

Yes, sir.

It's still a good day because I'm breathing. Because you told me something, man, you made me think about it when you say— you made me think about him when you was talking about the drums and things of that nature. I had a pastor in Detroit, Pastor Hill, and, uh, you know, same way he got into being a pastor and everything, he played the keyboard, you know, he played the organ stuff or whatever. And one thing he told me, Bishop, he said, son, whatever you was looking for yesterday, he said, as long as God wakes you up tomorrow, it's possible that you can get it tomorrow. But that which you was looking for yesterday, if you don't wake up tomorrow, that, that you was looking for, you won't receive it that day either. So you know what I'm saying? So basically he said As long as I'm here, thank God that I'm here, and whatever I was looking for in the past, yep, it's still obtainable, you know what I'm saying? I still can get it. But if I'm not here, yeah, I definitely can't get it, you know what I'm saying? That always stuck with me, man. He told me that probably about 15 years ago, and I always bring that— I kept that in my toolbox, you know, on my sad days. Like, hey, I may have been looking for a sponsorship yesterday or whatever, but it didn't happen. But as long as I'm here today, you know what I'm saying, It's a possibility that it can, man. So I'm gonna stay where I'm at. So Bishop, I've been enjoying this, man. Let me ask you, man, building against all odds. We talked about this earlier about you in Denver, me in Colorado, now you're in Atlanta. But let me ask you, man, Denver, it was called the church planters' graveyard.

Graveyard, yeah.

What made you stay and strive in that atmosphere?

Wow, you know what, just I want to throw one thing on what you just said. I like to say it like this: if I still got a pulse, you still got a plan. Every moment I got a pulse, there's still a plan that's working, which is pretty much what you were just saying, just said it another way. What made me progress is back to that inner fighter, going back to childhood, being a fighter from a young age and the protector and all of that. I was like, I want to fight to see the results. So we plant a church. I didn't want to be a pastor, by the way. So some people, this is what they want to do. They'll go print certificates offline and they'll go get all this crazy I didn't want to be a pastor. I didn't want to be a bishop, which for those unfamiliar, it's just a pastor to pastor is the best way to think of it. Just like military, right? You got generals who are over other officers, best way to think of it. And then you have the different ranks. And so I didn't want to do that. Like, I was like, this is— I don't want to do that. I was simultaneously in business, but I was doing well in business. And then for ministry, because I know how to start organizations, organizational management, marketing, those types of things, I was traveling doing that. And I was an associate pastoral. And then this, you know, then I have this dream that this is what I'm supposed to do and move forward. God essentially forces my hand to do it. I was like, I don't want to do this. So the first service we do is packed. That's because I invited every dancer, every Christian rapper, I mean every singer. I invited everybody. It's packed, it's packed. You got to stand in room only. As a matter of fact, the church we were renting, the pastor came in and said, well, you're going to be trying to buy the building from me in a little bit. I said, well, next week, 7 people, 7 people. And I'm like, whoa, okay. And let me tell you how against it I was, the concept. I would literally on Saturday nights sometimes not preach. I would play a Madea movie. Now I just need y'all to know that's crazy. But to me at that time, yeah, I was like, yep, we do praise and worship, we do offering, and I say today's service we're gonna watch this movie. There's some principles in it y'all need to learn.

Mm.

I was so against it. When it came to doing the first communion, it was my mom, in fact, who said, now, when are we going to do communion? I said, I guess we need to do communion. So I was against it. And I think to your question of what made me keep going is that when I finally accepted that this was God's plan, I gave him a yes. And when I give my yes, you give it your all. And I think for some, this is the challenge they face in life, is you want 100% out of something you're only giving 75% to. You can't get 100 out of what you're not putting 100 in. So, or maybe keep going, is that when I realized this is what God wants me to do, I'm gonna give it my all. And so we did crazy things that were crazy faith moves. We went on TV. We were less than a year old. We were on a bunch of networks, Fox, UPN, ION, you know, we would do that. We had one camera, and the camera guy was from the Ohio Center for Broadcasting. I think they rebranded since then. And he struggled to keep me in the frame. So here's what I knew enough to know. All right, if I got one camera, he can do that. And then every time I get off frame, we're going to shoot some B-roll of the people responding in the congregation, clapping, you know, and that kind of thing. Shoot some tight shots because we were in a school auditorium. Shoot some tight shots for the B-roll. I found a girl who did this one very popular TV preacher that was doing her editing. I found her. I said, she's going to do my editing. So our program came out and it looked like we've been around for years and we got tens of thousands of people. Because I was like, God, I'm gonna give it my best. And when I gave God my yes, I gave it my best. That's what made me keep going. And like I said, you fast forward, over 12,000 people have given their lives to the Lord so far. Well over 15,000 are connected in our database. When you add all our socials and all of that, you got, you know, well over 600, almost 700-some thousand that are connected in some way, shape, form, or fashion. This year alone, over 1,500 people have given their lives to the Lord. But again, the way I view it is that's a small drop in the bucket. It's 8 billion people on the planet.

Man, I'm loving it, Bishop, man. Hey, so let me ask you, Bishop, man, before I go any farther, man, I got a few more questions with you, man, because we've been chopping it up and I appreciate you again, man, coming on the show, man, dropping these nuggets on us.

Really? Yes, sir.

Bishop, where can we find your music at? Where can we find you at? I know we can find your— we can find them on Instagram, y'all. Hey, go to Instagram, my man, uh, Bishop Kevin Ford. PhD is on Instagram doing his thing, man, talking. I've been watching them myself. Follow— but what can we follow you at, man? What can we find you at, Bishop?

Yes, sir. So really, BishopForeman.com. F-O-R-E-M-A-N.com. My books are there. Done some amazing books about finance, books about breaking generational curses, books about being an evolutionary, uh, which is different than a revolutionary. When you evolve, you could never go back to being what you were. Revolution just means change. Evolution means change for the better, always. So Books are there, songs we've done, some amazing music that people can get their hands on. That's there to get, you know, all connected to everything. We got an app, we got so many resources that'll add value to people's lives. Bishopforman.com and on all the socials @Bishopforman, people can connect and get the information right there. But that's the best way, Bishopforman, F-O-R-E-M-A-N.com.

I'm on it, man. I gotta get some of these resources, plus I want to talk to you about, about something when we get off myself, man. Let me ask you, Bishop, man, before we get Leadership and Legacy.

Yeah.

What advice would you give young leaders about turning vision into impact?

Mm, I think number one, realize that vision is progressive. What you see today may evolve tomorrow, meaning don't lock yourself into a box. I'll just use me for an example. I didn't see, you know, we talk about social and all those things we do now. For a while, I kind of saw social media as a nuisance, if you want the truth. I saw podcasts and videos and all this. I was like, this is such a nuisance. Like, I was like, here's what I would say: I'm a real pastor. I don't need to do all that other stuff. Yeah, because I didn't recognize that the medium had changed. I was used to traditional TV. I was used to, you know, sitting on set and you got makeup and you got all of that and you got your director. I was used to that. And then on social, what the craziest thing to me is, I remember I was sitting around 50,000 or so on Instagram and It just wouldn't move them. And I remember asking a friend of mine who was doing really well, I said, "What are you doing?" And he just said, "I just speak into the camera and just," you know, and he had an Android too. And I said, "You speaking to that Android and that thing?" You know, like, what are you doing? And he said something powerful. He said, "I asked God, I got mad at God because I said, 'God, why aren't people,'" he said, "Why weren't people inviting him to preach? Why aren't they giving him a stage?" And he said, "God spoke to him and said, 'I gave you a stage, it's in your hand.'" And so he said, I just talk to the phone. And I was like, that's it? I was like, so who's helping you? You know, he didn't have— there was no secret sauce. When I heard that there was no secret sauce, I was like, well, if it works for him, let me see if it works for me. I was on a flight to Chicago maybe a week or so later and getting ready to board the plane. And I was like, let me just look at my phone, do a quick video. So, you know, when you're in the boarding area, you kind of talking kind of low because you don't want to be too loud, you know, that type of thing. So I'm talking kind of low. I do a video. That video now has probably gotten 20, 30, 40 million views, something like that, across the platforms. And I was flying Southwest because that was the best flight. The only reason I mentioned that is because anybody that's ever flown them knows that their Wi-Fi is not the best. So I had to quickly get the video posted before the flight took off because I knew it wasn't gonna work on flight— in-flight. And I got the video posted, I landed, like 40,000 likes. I was I was like, what? And all of a sudden, boom, it began to take off. And I had to recognize my vision was progressive. So to leaders who want to make an impact, your vision of the impact— number one, vision is progressive. Number two, vision must be fought for and defended. You're going to have lots of things try to get your attention. You're going to have to decide what you're going to focus on. Being focused is not just what you say yes to, it's what you say no to. In fact, the major part of focus is how to say no. No to this, no to this, no to this, none of this. When it comes to building business, I knew I wanted businesses. I own a PE firm, so private equity, so mergers and acquisitions. This is totally separate from the church and ministry things. And I realized for that, my focus is ministry, so I don't have time to be involved in the day-to-day operations of my other entities and my other businesses. And so it's about what do I say no to? I say no to 99% of deals. I say no to 99% of offers put in front of me. I can only say yes to the 1%. If you want to be the 1%, you want to say yes to 1%. And finally, when it comes to vision, I would say— and vision to impact— is recognizing that you don't chase money, you chase purpose. And when you chase purpose, money chases you. When you do the thing you're supposed to do, you'll find a way to monetize it. When you do the thing you were created to do, you'll find a way to monetize it. I never have chased, oh, I'm gonna do this because this makes a lot of money, I'm gonna do this because it makes a lot of money. I was like, I'm gonna do this because this is what I do. And as a result, resources have always flown to me.

I like that, man. Don't, don't, don't chase it, man. They say that it'll chase you down, you know, blessings will chase you down, you know, like you said, once you walking to your purpose, man. I could elaborate on that, man, but for the sake of time, Bishop, hey, we gonna keep it moving real quick. So let me ask you, Bishop, man, how do you balance ambition and humility and service all together?

Oh, this is good. I love that question. First of all, there's nothing wrong with being ambitious. In fact, I view it like this. I remember one time, one of the facilities we were renting The guy said to me, he says— he was a Korean gentleman, and so he was speaking to me and he said, he said, "The Harvesters are too aggressive." I said, "What are you talking about?" He said, "You all are doing too much to reach too many people." He said, "Jesus Christ would not be aggressive." I said, "Thank you for confirming that I'm doing exactly what I'm supposed to do." To me, even from a biblical standpoint, there's nothing wrong with ambition. The Bible says, "Don't think more highly of yourself than you ought to." It doesn't say don't think more highly of yourself. It doesn't say there's anything wrong with knowing that greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world. There's nothing wrong with that. And when I recognize that, I realize that I got a limited amount of time to do as much as I can while I can. So I must be ambitious. I balance— I won't even say balance. Humility comes in, going back to those things we talked about. I realized that as ambitious as I am, it's still God that's going to bring the success, not by might nor by power, but by his spirit. I realized that the same people who are with me on Monday might not be with me on Tuesday. So I recognize that that can change. And then finally, I realized that I got a limited amount of time. So I always go back to those things that keeps me in a place to where, like, I want to be ambitious, I'm going to go after what I want to go after. There's nothing wrong with that. And at the same time, I keep those 3 principles in mind. Because at the end of the day, here's what I learned. No matter how much you get, no matter how much you accomplish, there is still something that only God can do for you. There's still a sense of purpose that only God can give you. And how do we know that? They say that most millionaires are unhappy. Most people strive to become millionaires, that's their goal, but when they get there, they're not happy because the money didn't do for them what they thought it would.

That's because only God can do Mm, you know, and to that point, I guess so many people, CEOs and coaches and things of that nature that was in, you know, working for Fortune 500 companies and things like that, and got to the pinnacle like you said, you know, making money and life good, but they wasn't happy because it wasn't fulfilling the purpose of their life, you know what I'm saying? You know, they reached all the way here, but then they had to come back, you know what I'm saying, and find like what was they missing, you know what I'm saying. It was something missing on this journey, and most of them say it was the purpose of their life, man. That's why I like bringing people on like yourself and others, man, because like you said, I'm glad that you decided to start sharing your stories and getting out here on podcast and share stuff, because people be inspired by, you know, saying, because they can see Bishop where he is now, and you know, 650,000 plus, and you know, Hall of Fame and, you know, recording, all the things of that nature. Yeah, but they don't know the struggle. They don't know the trials and tribulations. Like you spoke to earlier, like, I was a bad child. I was a maddest child, you know what I'm saying? I did this and that. Like, people may not know that. Like, when you going through life, you know what I'm saying, we can see a person where they are now, but we don't know what they've been through. And so that's what I like to highlight here on the CJ Moneyway Show, because it's more than just, you know, saying the success. It's like the stories behind the success, man, because we all, as we were talking about earlier, we all had to build and start brick by brick, man. We all had to start somewhere with a solid found— to build a solid foundation. Yep, absolutely.

Yeah, yeah. So can I just throw one thing on there too, what you just said, to just add to what you said, is lots of people see glory but they don't know story, and it's the story that actually makes the glory worth something. Even when I'm talking to people, it's nice to know their accomplishments. But you know what I like to know? I like to know your wounds. I like to know where you were cut. I want to know where you were hurt. One, it normalizes it for me. So I see this is everybody's process. But two, it helps me to appreciate what's been accomplished. Because sometimes when you're going through things, you can feel like, I'm the only one. It's just me. My journey's so hard. Nobody knows the trouble I go through.

The trouble I go through. Nobody knows. Exactly.

My sorrows. My sorrows. But the truth is, everybody do.

Yeah.

Everybody's got their cross to bear, their journey to walk through. And so to me, it's just one of those things that, again, I could give you a million stories of times I was like, come on, God, come on, God, come on. And he came through, you know. So, and I just want to throw that in Yeah, I like it, man.

Okay, you know what he come through because you've been denied. And like you say, the night ain't the delay, uh, uh, it's the delay. But you know what I'm saying? You like, you go through stuff and then, you know, then finally happy. Like, man, this was nothing but by the grace of God, you know what I'm saying?

Like, thank you.

And things happen for a reason at the time that it's supposed to happen, man. So listen, I only got like 2 more questions for you, man.

Yes, sir. No, you good. I appreciate it.

Money, practice, and practicality. You often connect faith to practical steps. What's one financial or entrepreneurial principle you wish every believer would adopt?

Oh my God. So here it is. I believed this before I was a pastor, before I was a bishop. Faithful giving. I say it like this: faithful givers flourish. I am a tither. I'm a sower. I know there's a lot of people saying a lot of things about it. Here's what they should have done before I saw it work. If you wanted me not to believe in the principle, you should have tried to tell me not to believe in it before I saw it work. I have been that way since I was a kid and I learned about it. And I've been a faithful tither, faithful giver, sowing above my tithes since I was 12 years old. And that principle alone— my first book is called Making Money Moves: The Art of Getting Your Finances in Order. After building— so one of the things we didn't talk about is I built, by the age of 21, I built Denver's largest Black-owned real estate finance brokerage mortgage company. Over the weekend, the entire industry collapsed. We didn't see it hit Wall Street until, you know, the big bailout and all that until 2008. Well, in the secondary markets, that stuff was happening back in '04, '05, '06, '07. Like, it builds up before— by the time you see it hit the main market, that stuff has been percolating for years. An oversimplification of it, but there it is. And so I remember thinking, God, how am I even here? How am I going to get through this? And I literally gave— this is going to sound crazy to some people— I gave my way out. And I gave my way into debt freedom. I gave my way out. And I saw the principle work. To me, I think that's one of those top principles you should see at work. And there's, you know, again, without jumping into the weeds about it, people say this, people say this, people say this. At the end of the day, look at it for yourself, study for yourself. In fact, on our website, I do a whole bunch teaching about it. So if people go to BishopCorwin.com, they can get a whole bunch of teaching about it in that book, get teaching about it. That's number one. Second principle I would say for people is that you are running—

if you—

when you talk about being an entrepreneur, you are running a business, not a charity. And the reason that's important to understand is you can't make decisions. Let me give you an example. You can't make decisions like, you know, I'm gonna help my friend out and give him a job. If your friend don't know what he doing, This is not charity work.

Yeah, right.

I'm gonna help my mama out, I'm gonna help my cousin out, I'm gonna help my sister out. I have fired family members unapologetically. If you can't execute, you can't execute. And when it comes to running business, and even if you are legitimately running a charity or nonprofit, it doesn't mean that you're not supposed to do things with good business principles. So number 2 is stick to good business principles. Like, if you're going to hire people, they need to be able to execute. If you're going to be a business, treat your customer well, you know, make sure that you give people a reason to return and to do business with you. So I would say number 2 is just have good business principles, run it like a business, and build an empire. That's what I would say.

I like that, brick by brick, because I like what you said earlier, you know, you said you started doing this And then you found the editor girl and he's like, okay. And then, you know, you start putting together— like, we had this many people. But you said something earlier to the effect too, and I really like that too. You said, I turned it over and I let other people run it and I make money while I sleep. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's the deal breaker right there. You know what I'm saying? Let other people run it. You know the ins and outs, but people that know more than me, you know what I'm saying, Let them handle this, that, and the third. I oversee it. And while they working, like me, I work a regular job. My CEO making money while I'm out there working while he sleep. You know, that's what I want to get to.

Listen, and if I could throw this in there, you know, what I encourage a lot of people to do is to really recognize, especially in the state of the economy in the world today, is there's 3 different things. There's self-employed, so you work for yourself. But if you don't work, you don't eat. You kill what you catch. There's entrepreneurs. These are creators. But to be a creator means you're constantly creating. So you can only cash in on what you can create. But then there's being a business owner, and that's where most people think they are, but they're not. Being a business owner means I've created systems, structures, strategies that are working for me, even if I'm not working them. And everybody's gotta decide which of those they wanna be. To me, I said, I've been building things since I was 12. At this stage of my journey, I don't have an interest in building anything from scratch anymore. What I have an interest in doing, and this is something maybe we do another show about another day, what I have an interest in doing is buying what somebody else built.

Mm.

And let that become a cash flowing asset that makes more money than real estate on an annual return, makes more money on average than investing in the stock market. Why not buy what somebody else has already proven works?

Mm. So let me ask you this real quick, because I ran into a lady named Ann Peltz. Shout out to Ann. And she connected me to— because we talking about making money while you sleeping. After we did the interview, Bishop, she text me on the phone and say, CJ, I want to help you make money while you sleep. Old white lady. And I say, okay, and she connected me to business. It's called, uh, Acquisition Network, you know what I'm saying, where you can buy into businesses and things of that nature. And, uh, they'll run like for 20%, they'll run the whole thing, you know what I'm saying. All you do is come to a couple of meetings here and there, uh, throughout the week, and they run it. Or you can take the 100% or whatever and then run it yourself, you know. And then she gave me some mortgage stuff, like you could pay pay a 30-year mortgage in 5 years, you know, and things of that nature. So with the business acquisition thing, what I want to ask you, because you say buy something that somebody else had that's already been approved, a commodity, is that, you know, saying, do that fit like something in that realm?

Uh, you know, it could. So it could. I don't know a lot of the details of it. It could. I just know right now, 1 out of every 12 businesses in America that's for sale, sales. So it's a buyer's market. Uh, we're about to have a large pool of baby boomers, etc., that are going to be retiring, and most of them own a lot of businesses that they don't have anybody to hand it to. So either the business collapses or they sell it. And from that, when I talk about acquisitions, that's what I'm referring to— acquiring existing profitable cash-flowing businesses that already have system, structure, strategy in place where you come in, you may make some changes or you may make no changes. In fact, many times you don't want a business you have to make changes to because you're buying something that's already working. A lot of us have been taught, you know, you got to grind, get it out the mud, and that's good to learn how to do.

Mm-hmm.

What happens though, back to where we started, I have a special set of skills. I know how to take nothing and turn it into something. So what can I do with something that's already something, turning it into a bigger something? And so that's the phase and stage I'm in from the business standpoint. And so when it comes to that, that's what I'm talking about. But there's lots of ways to get there. I just know that most of us have never been taught that you don't have to start everything. You can buy something somebody else started. And here's what's crazy. You can do it with lots of different creative financing ways, seller financing ways in particular, where they'll help you to buy them out of their business.

Mm.

That's what I do.

And I love that.

That's exciting to me. 'Cause listen, starting stuff from scratch is fun, but building, for example, Berkshire Hathaway.

Mm-hmm.

Warren Buffett's only claim to fame, and I don't say this to diminish his accomplishments, he just buys into businesses. He just acquires businesses. Some of them he'll acquire, some of them he acquires portions of them.

Mm-hmm.

He has become, you know, what do they call him, the Oracle of Omaha. And he doesn't own any of that in terms of, let me correct that. He doesn't operate any of those businesses. We've been taught to be operators, but this next wave of wealth transfer, you're going to be an owner. You don't have to be the operator.

I like it too. And like you said, Bishop, we're gonna have to come back on again for some more stuff because I talked to a lot of people and, you know, they talk about how when you build a business, you got to have your exit strategy. So your paperwork and your accounts got to be in order because like you just said, because when you come in I want to come into something that's already ready to go, you know. I don't have to make too many changes with it. I want to run it like an oil well machine. I've been talking to a lot of people, Bishop, man. So I'm like, I'm learning as I go, man. I listen while I'm on here, man. That's why I'm listening to you, Bishop. Hey, so Bishop, man, my last question, man, let me ask you. How can people build legacy while navigating modern distractions and doubt?

Let's deal with doubt. Doubt is natural. Doubt is normal. What you have to do with doubt is interrogate it. When doubt shows up, you have to interrogate that doubt. Why are you here? What are you saying? What are you trying to stop me from? On the other side of doubt is often something that is going to be incredible for you. On the other side of doubt is often something that's going to be a great blessing to you. So you're going to— you're going to deal with doubt. Trying to avoid it is ridiculous. Instead, you need to learn how to confront it. So when doubts show up with me, I confront the doubt. I'm like, let's talk, let me interrogate you. What are you here for? What am I afraid of? What, what is it that I think I don't know enough of? Or I think, oh, there's an insecurity, whatever. Deal with the doubt, um, don't avoid it. So that's, that's still a doubt. Then to the distractions, to me it's like this: anything that can distract you is, is really telling you that you have an issue with your will. Meaning, do you really desire what you'd say you desire to the level you say you desire it? Because when you do, distractions are easily identifiable. They're difficult to identify when you don't really know what you want. So to deal with distractions, be clear about what you want so that anything that's not aligned with that path, I can say that's a distraction, that's a distraction, that's a distraction. So deal with the doubt. And then be clear about where you're headed so that you can deal with the distractions.

Mm, I like it, man. Deal with the doubt so you could be clear how to deal with the distractions. Hey, Bishop, I appreciate you coming on, man. Before we leave, give me one thing that's on your heart that you would like to share with the people, man, before we get out of here.

Man, you know what? Here's what I say, depending on whenever they see this episode, that this last quarter Quarter 4 is going to be the best of your year, best of your life. I'm a believer in this, that God can do in one moment what hasn't happened in years. And so whenever you're seeing this, here's the takeaway: that one move can change everything. One decision can change everything. One prayer can change everything. One meeting, one con— one thing can change everything. So here's the takeaway, last thing on my heart, as you said One Thing Can Change Everything.

One Thing Can Change Everything. And so that you know, this episode will be out November 25th, 2025, before Thanksgiving. I had to put my man Bishop Foreman on that list, man. I got, uh, you know, you say you should start things different, man. So in November, yes, sir, I'm glad I got you. And actually just wrote on it, in November I'm having Black History Month in November. I got all black men on my list for the month of November, man, and you on November 25th, man.

Oh man, listen, this is powerful. Thank you for that. Even more powerful because watch this, there's a month left. There's a month left. Let's let this last month be the best month of this year and our lives. One thing can change everything.

That's why I want to put it out there, man, you know what I'm saying? It's a— I got a lot of strong black men, man, that I got And I was going through some stuff the other day. I said, you know what? And I just rearranged some stuff, whatever. I said, this is what I'm gonna do, you know, say change the narrative because we can only have Black History Month in February, which I do got something for that, but I think I'm gonna put all women on there. And I said, you know what? I had Bishop here and I got such and such. I said, you know what? I got enough Black men that I could fill a whole month up with, so I'm gonna have Black History Month in November. November, man. So, so be looking out for that, man. That's what we gonna do in November. So, Bishop Kevin, I appreciate you, man. You just reminded us that transformation starts with one decision to keep showing up when the world says you can't. If today's conversation sparked something within you, share this episode with someone who's building their own legacy. Subscribe to the CJ Moneyway Johnson Show for more brick-by-brick stories of faith, hustle, and purpose. And if you want to go deeper, check out the links in the show notes to connect with Bishop Kevin Ford, PhD, and his work. And with me, keep up with all things Moneyway. Until the next time, it's your boy CJ Moneyway with my man Bishop Kevin Foreman. Hey, we out of here.

Peace.

Before you go, let me leave you with this.

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