Breaking Barriers: Women’s Inspiring Journeys in Sports and Education

I forgot to ask you, my glasses glare. Would you prefer I remove them?

No, no, yeah, you're good, you're good.

Okay.

All right, welcome to the CJ Moneyway Johnson Show in association with Believe Network, the podcast that brings you stories behind the success Today we have with us a trailblazer for women in sports, one of the first female sportscasters on ESPN, author, and high school ref, uh, football referee, Ann Montgomery. Welcome to the show today.

Well, thank you for inviting me, CJ. I'm happy to be here.

I appreciate you coming on. So, Ann, let's start. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your background, and What inspired you to get into the world of sports?

Like every kid who ever played a sport, I was going to be a star, right? Like every kid. But I was an ice dancer and I was not good at all. But you know how you get that? I want to be— I want a gold medal in the Olympics or I want to be a pro, whatever. And I wasn't any good. I was way too big to be an ice dancer. You wouldn't want to lift me over your head. Trust me. And so the bottom line was I got that desire to be an athlete. Like, I started skating at 5. But I grew up in a hockey— in a rink where there were hockey players too. And so I learned to love hockey. And the bottom line is today, I would play hockey. But in 19— early 1970s, women weren't allowed to do that. Title IX hadn't been implemented yet. And so, you know, I grew up loving to skate, and I skied, and I swam. And so I enjoyed athletics. But when my mother stood up next to me and said, what do you want to be when you grow up? We have to pick a college for you. And I said, I want to be a sportscaster. She said, don't be ridiculous. I'm trying to have a serious conversation with you because quite honestly, there weren't any women sportscasters. It was a ridiculous dream. And the only reason I dreamed it was because I was in something called the broadcast crew in high school. And that meant we had a half-hour kind of radio show every morning. And we did announcements. And, you know, it was like, it was every day. And there were sports announcements. And one day, one of the hockey players came up to me, because I was the statistician for the hockey team. And he said, would you read this on the news this morning? I'm, sure. So when I went into, to start the broadcast that morning, I took all the sports stories out of the basket, because I thought they should all go together. And 5 minutes before we went on, all the boys started yelling at me. They said, you can't read sports, you're a girl. And the man who read— who the teacher came in, he goes, if Annie wants to read the sports, she can read the sports. You have a show to do, do it. So I read all the sports and I thought that was pretty cool. The guys were still mad. The next day I did the same thing. The next day I did the same thing. And so they decided to embarrass me and they decided to play theme music for me before I went on every day and they played Mission Impossible. That thing. And then they started calling me Big Ann. Up next, Big Ann with the sports. And while they thought they were embarrassing me, I loved it.

Yeah.

And all the people in school started— coaches and kids, you know, they started handing me announcements. So I became a sportscaster, and it says it under my high school graduation picture, my yearbook. This is your local sportscaster. But again, it was 1973. And there just weren't women doing those kinds of things. So when I went to college at Miami of Ohio, my professor said, "No, you'll never be a sportscaster. You're a girl." And in fact, they gave me a show to do my senior year, which was shocking. They said, "You want to co-host this sports show?" I said, "Sure." It was a TV show. And what I didn't understand was the football coach, the basketball coach, and the baseball coach all refused to talk to me. They would not allow me to interview them. And so the gentleman that I anchored with, he did all those stories and I was stuck. And then I realized there's so many more sports on a college campus. We had archery, wrestling, and hockey, and gymnastics, and swimming. And I went to those teams and they were delighted because, you know, they get ignored. Yeah. So, I started interviewing them. And I wanted to be a sportscaster. And still, it was 1977. It was not something women did. And I couldn't get a job anywhere. I couldn't get an interview anywhere. And you know how in life funny little turns happen that you didn't expect that change everything? Yeah, that happened to me one night. I went to a Washington Capitals game with my aunt, who was like a sister to me. She brought a date and he was an amateur ice hockey official, meaning little, you know, kids in high school, that kind of thing.. And he was bemoaning the fact that there just weren't enough hockey officials. Kind of like today, there aren't enough officials anywhere. And my aunt went, oh, Annie skates. And, and I said yes. And he said, well, would you like to be a referee? And I said, okay, I'll be a referee. Never once considering that I had never been on hockey skates in my life. Which are different. Do you know the difference between hockey skates and figure skates?

No, I don't.

Okay, well, well, figure skates have real sharp toe picks at the end. Hockey skates are round. Okay, so when I went out to take that first, you know, I went to the classes, I took the exam, they sent me out at, oh God, for a 6:00 AM game. And I worked in a bar at the time, so I think I had 3 hours sleep. And I put on my stripes and my whistle and I was all excited. I went out and had my puck and it's like 6-year-old hockey players. Have you ever seen them?

No.

With their little jerseys down to their knees and their helmets are all too big because they're little kids and they kind of tilt rakishly to the side. And I went out to take my first face-off and I fell. Oh, man. Because I couldn't catch myself. I didn't know that they were round. I didn't pay attention that they were rounded on the ends. And I tried to get up and I fell 2 more times. And these little kids are all staring down at me. And I'm going to tell you the honest truth, CJ. I do not remember the rest of the game. But I do remember the ride home. Yeah. On the ride home, I realized I didn't know enough about sports to be a sportscaster. I really didn't. So I decided before I got home that morning that I was going to take the next 5 years and officiate the 5 main team spectator sports: football, baseball, ice hockey, soccer, and basketball. And I was going to learn the games, the games I had never been allowed to play. And I'd work in the bar, and they scheduled around all my games, which is great. And I believe that somewhere in the country, there was a forward-thinking news director who would hire me. Understanding that I knew about the games. And that's exactly what happened. So I ended up working for 5 stations, including ESPN, where I anchored SportsCenter.

Mm. So let me ask you, and with the career that you went into, when you began your career, did you set out to be a trailblazer for women's sports, or was it something that just happened?

Well, I don't think anybody sets out to be a trailblazer. They just decide they want to do something. Okay. And for me, it was a weird thing, but I was convinced I could do that. And, and I'm, I'm probably, I'm probably more stubborn than anything because every time somebody said, no, you can't, I said, yes, I can. I said, yes, I can. Like, you know, when my brother told me 2 years, he was 2 years ahead of me and I was finally going off to college and I am dyslexic, which I didn't know until I was in my 50s. So I wasn't— I didn't get great grades in school. And he leaned on the door jamb and he goes, "I bet you $20 you flunk out by Christmas. You're too stupid to be in college." And you know what? I would have rather, you know, been hit by a meteor and killed than flunk out of school. So I busted my butt and I did really well and got a great education. And you may think me snotty for this, but I'm delighted that I have more degrees on my wall than my brother. I don't think he ever paid me the $20, but I won. Right. So what I'm saying is sometimes no is a gift. And everybody who said you can't do this, no, it's never going to happen. My brain goes, yes, I will. Yes, I will. And so it's stubbornness. I'm of Irish descent and we're kind of stubborn anyway. So, yeah. So trailblazer. I don't know. Stubborn, probably.

You know, I was just watching the Martha Stewart documentary last night and kind of put me in the mind of that. She would not take no for an answer. When people told her no, she made them, you know, she made them regret that they, you know, denied her or didn't believe in what she was doing. So just listening to you kind of brought that back to my memory. So let me ask you a question. And seeing the success of SportsCenter today and the many women that now play pivotal roles in the broadcast, how does that make you feel?

Well, I'm not sure women have made that much progress, either whether it's SportsCenter or whether it's sportscasting in general. As far as SportsCenter is concerned, that's the entry-level job at ESPN. Nobody's supposed to stay in it. You're supposed to move on to specialize in something. And I remember when I first got there, they said, well, what's your specialty? I said, I don't know. I can do football, baseball, ice hockey, soccer, basketball. And they, they said, no, you're supposed to specialize. So Chris Fowler, for example, we shared a desk and he does football. That's his thing. And the bottom line is, if you're still doing SportsCenter after many years, you're not moving up. Hmm. And in sportscasting in general, I mean, let's be honest, when I was in broadcasting, there weren't many jobs. Even in big cities, there were only 3, you know, network news stations and maybe a non-network news show. And they had 3 sportscasters. There were very few jobs. Today, there are a whole bunch of jobs, a whole bunch of different kind of outlets. So they have more room to hire women. But let's talk about football. Where do they put the women?

On the sideline.

Yes, the most useless job in broadcasting. I mean, would you want to hold a microphone in the face of a coach who's down 30-nothing at halftime? I would not. I don't. It's ridiculous. And on top of that, every time I hear them, the women speak on the sidelines, I'm thinking, we don't need sportscasters, we need nurses in scrubs. Because mostly they're going, well, Bob, I think he hurt his ACL. You know, we'll get, he's in the tent. He's in the tent. We'll let you know if he's in concussion protocol. It's just medical stuff. They rarely get to talk football. Okay, so it bothers me that all these years later, 'cause I was on ESPN '90 to '92, that's how old I am. That they really haven't given that many more jobs to women. Why can't they do play-by-play in color? There's a handful of women that have done that at the college level. They just— why is it so impossible? So, I don't think it's any better than it was when I was there. I'd like to think they're not as mean to the women. You know, I know they hired me because it was equal opportunity employment, and you can't have a building that's 100% male. I get that. But I hope they hired me because I had skills. I'd worked at 3 stations before I got there. And I'll give you an example. I was on the SportsCenter set one night. And if you're real— mostly you get to see the highlights before you go on. A production assistant who's like an entry-level person brings you some highlights and you look at it and they give you a script and then you write it in your own words because we all have our own style. And so— but sometimes the game ends while you're on camera. And so one night this game ended, and in baseball, and this kid comes sliding in with the highlights, and the red camera light went on, and the first shot says, oh, a fan got hit with a foul tip in the front row at Wrigley Field. Now I read that, that's wrong, that's impossible, but I didn't have time to fix it. And so I did all the highlights, and at the end of every SportsCenter there's something called a postmortem, and And that means everybody involved in the show troops down to a big office, and there's a big giant table, and we all sit around the table, and we talk about what went well, what went poorly, and what can we do better. And so I went, "Rich," that was the production assistant, I said, "I have to talk to you about that first play." And he said, "Well, you mean the foul tip that hit the guy in the front row?" I said, "Yeah, that can't happen. A foul tip cannot hit a guy in the front row, because a foul tip is a ball that goes from the bat to the catcher's glove." It's caught legally. It's a strike. And guess what? It's a live ball, which means if I've got a guy stealing home, he's got a right to do that. We can make a play there. So a guy in the front row can't get hit with that. He can, however, get hit with a foul ball, which is what? A dead ball. So that means the guy trying to steal home, he's got to come back.

Yeah.

And there's silence, like 12 guys sitting around the table. No one said a word. And that producer goes, is it that big a deal? I said, yes. And, and Rich, the production assistant, bolts up from his seat and goes, you're nothing but a picky bitch. And I said, no, no, no, no, I'm an umpire. Yeah, I'm an umpire. And I know the difference between a foul ball and a foul tip. And I guarantee you our viewers do, or they should. And we should care.

Yeah.

No one defended me. The next day, I got called into my boss's office and ordered to apologize too rich because I hurt his feelings.

Wow. So that's what you was dealing with back then.

I'm like, why did you hire me if you didn't think I knew what I was talking about? Yeah. So that kind of thing happened. Yeah.

Mm. That I, I could imagine it, you know, because it's like we say, it was a sport or, uh, a time where everything was dominated by men. You know, as you say, as you alluded to today, it's still dominated by men as far as play-by-play announcers. And because, as you were saying that, I was thinking, I only think of Doris Burke that does play-by-play analysis for the NBA.

Yeah. And the only places women really can make inroads are as if they were athletes themselves. So if a woman played in the NBA, she can be an announcer in the WNBA. And maybe those will be the women, like, because women play basketball. Yeah, maybe, maybe the NBA will be better about that. But football, there aren't any. Now, if you're a gold medalist in ice skating or swimming in the Olympics, you can talk about those sports, those sports during Olympic years. But they're not going to hire you to be a football analyst, probably. So it's frustrating to me because I don't think it's really gotten all that much better. Yes, we see more women, but they're not giving them jobs that make them really have to think about sports. Sports at all.

Yeah, because like you say, they— like, they had a woman, you know, as the commentator up front, but then you have all the professional or former basketball players that used to play, and then the questions being diverted to them to get their expertise, but they're just actually moderating, you know, what's really taking place.

Right, right. Like in football now, they let a woman sit at the end while the guys all talk shop. Yeah, she throws some questions out, but that's what bugs me. They pretend that they look, we got a woman on the set at halftime of the NFL, but she's not doing a whole lot.

Yeah.

So I'd like to think it's better, but I don't think it is.

Yeah. And I appreciate your honesty and transparency, considering someone who actually been there and done that, opposed to somebody who's just on the outside looking in like myself. And somebody that actually does. And speaking of that, now let's go here. And as one of the first women in this space, what was it like for yourself to be a studio host for the Phoenix Suns back in the day?

That was my last TV job, and that was— it was great fun. But I had been in Phoenix before I went to ESPN. I was a— I worked for a station there for a couple of years and it was great. And I covered the Suns and I was the beat reporter for the Cardinals with when they first— the NFL team first came out there and I traveled with them and that was great fun. I liked covering the Suns, but it was just a part-time gig. It was just— I just did it during the season. And what it was is I did all the home games and I did a half-hour pregame show that I produced and anchored, and it was about the Suns week and other stories in the NBA. I did a halftime 15-minute look at highlights and scores from around the league. And then the really tough one was the postgame show, which was a call-in TV show. And fans could call in and ask questions. And I would have guests like Charles Barkley or whoever. And the problem is we didn't have a delay button. You know, like at radio stations, they have a delay button. If you say you swear or say something bad. Yeah. They, you know, they can stop it. But they couldn't do this with my show. So the problem was that people could call up and say anything. And a lot of people hated me because there weren't women doing that back then. So they felt it was not my place to be there.

Hmm.

There was this big kerfuffle because people got upset that I called Charles Barkley Chuck. And I'm like, he didn't care. Why do you care? But the worst one is one woman called up one night and we're waiting for his— a question. I'm sitting there with Joe Klein. I don't know if you remember Joe Klein. Really tall, center, redheaded guy.

Yeah, I know who you're talking about.

And he's sitting there with me. And this lady goes, I just want to tell you, Ann Montgomery, that I hate you, that you're horrible, and you shouldn't be on TV. Who do you think you are? And I froze. I froze on camera. And I'm like, I didn't know what to do. And I, you know, I got old. Years later, I might have said something funny, and they would have hung up. But everybody was so shocked, they didn't hang up on her. So she's haranguing me. And Joe Klein, I will be forever grateful to him. He leaned over, he put his arm around me, goes, "That's okay, Annie, we all love you." And I'm like, "Oh, thank you." I mean, because for some reason, a lot of people, you know, felt I didn't belong. And I have to tell you something, as an official, as a football official, I've had women come at me and go, "Who do you think you are out here on this football team?" I'm like, "Well, I'm the referee. You can obviously tell." They thought I didn't belong there. And, and it's funny, you know, I mentioned officiating, and, and I never quit officiating until 2019. And if you had told me after I finally got my job in TV that I would remain an official, I would have said you're crazy. But I ended up doing baseball for about 25 years, and I did football for 40. Um, and it's funny, I'm retired from it all now because I can't get out of the way anymore, and I've been all MRI'd and operated on and You know, and the only— I don't miss TV. I don't miss teaching. But I do miss Friday Night Football. I really miss being with my crewmates and putting on my jersey and grabbing my whistle and hat and going out there. I miss that a lot.

Yeah, because I know where you're from. You say you're from Phoenix, so I know those Friday nights.

I'm not from Phoenix. I mean, I've lived in 8 states, but I lived in Phoenix for about still going on 31 years.

Is that where you were officiating high school football?

I officiated in Washington, D.C., Virginia, New York. ESPN wouldn't let me. I thought that was mean. Arizona. And then, yeah, yeah, mostly in Arizona. But, but I worked in all different places. And I said, and it's funny, don't think, don't think I'm a little No, like a fragile flower. But I quit baseball because I get tired of being hit by baseballs. I look at people that go to pro games and there's a line drive into the seats and they're reaching out to catch it. I am hiding under the seats. Okay, I've been hit with baseball so many times and it's miserable. I'd rather be run over by 3 football players. I really would. So yeah, so I quit that. But, you know, I was pushing 65 when I, when I had to quit football. I just couldn't get out of the way. You know, if there was an interception or a fumble, I was the referee. By the way, how many referees on a football field?

Uh, 3, ain't it?

There's only one.

Oh, oh, you mean referee. Okay.

Okay. The one that says I have holding, 76 offense.

Yeah, that make the calls. Yeah, yeah.

I was the referee after, after years of getting thrown off guys' crews. 'Cause they would say, "We're never going to get the state championship 'cause you're a woman." They were right. I hated that, but they were right. And so, one day they said, "Anybody who wants to start a new crew, be a referee." It was a meeting of about 350 men. I don't know if there might have been another woman in there. And I said, "Screw it." And I stood up and I said, "I'd like to be a referee. If you want to be on my crew, I'll be in that corner over there after the meeting." And of course, not many guys came over because they knew they knew they wouldn't get big games. I mean, I got big games, but I never got the state championship or a lot of playoffs or anything. And I'm a damn good official. Yeah, I'd say so. But we— but I did find for the first time in my life that I was on a team, because some of the men stayed on my crew for 12, 13 years. So we were a team, and different people came in over the years. So for my last 24 years, I was the referee and crew chief, which meant it came down to me. And, and people even, even at the end of my career were always shocked. They go, oh my God, the ref's a girl! Part of me would go, yeah, and then I'd go, oh damn, you know, I wasn't sure.

Well, let me ask you a question though on top of that. And so seeing today where you have, you know, they are trying to integrate more women into refereeing in the NBA, and I've seen, uh, ref— uh, officials in football Uh, I guess it's the same question as I asked about, you know, seeing the women in sports center now. How do you, how do you view that now that, you know, they're trying to expand into more professional levels?

I, I wish they were doing it for, for reasons other than monetary reasons. Um, the bottom line is they could have done this 20 years ago. Yeah, but the bottom line is let's look at the NFL. The NFL has, I don't know, 4, 5, 4 women now, maybe more. And part of that is they're desperately trying to appeal to women. Why? You remember when you used to watch football and you'd see all kinds of shots of cheerleaders?

Yeah.

You don't see that anymore, do you?

Yeah, especially— I can never forget the Dallas Cowboys and the Laker girls.

But they don't dress like that anymore. And if you see a shot, it's very brief. Why? In the NFL, they know that, that over 50% of the money spent on their merchandise is spent by women. They're buying hats and jerseys and stuff for their husbands, their sons. So women are spending a whole lot of money on NFL merch. And so suddenly, they're saying, oh, look, girls are playing flag football. They're trying to make it more appealing to women. So fewer shots on the cheerleaders jiggling around and more shots on— more saying, oh, yeah, we have women who are officials. And we still, that's not enough to put a woman in the booth. But they're trying to appeal to women because women control the purse strings in most families. So they're not stupid. They're trying to, you know, promote, promote women. And honestly, they're doing that kind of across the board. The only outlier is friggin baseball. Baseball had a woman, you know, Pam Postema was an umpire back in the '80s, early '80s. How do I know that? I was married to a minor league umpire who was her partner. And the bottom line is why she wasn't— she could have easily been an umpire. And there have been other women who have gone through umpire training and, and, you know, umpire school, which I did as well. And why isn't there one or two? What's the big deal? And on top of that, I'm going to say something got me in trouble a little bit. I wrote a column and I know I'm going off the rails a little. But you know how girls play high school softball?

Yeah, yeah.

They should play baseball. I'm sick of girls playing softball. Let's let girls play baseball. And then maybe you'll have women coming up who will be umpires, who will have grown up with the game instead of getting into it later in life. So yeah, my attitude is that baseball is the worst. Why they can't have a woman announcer? Is it that tough? It's a slow game. Almost anybody can go, oh yeah, there's a single to center field. It's not like football, look at that block, you know? It's not, it's not that tough.

Yeah. So I didn't think about it like that. Baseball is probably one of the only sports that don't have women commentators.

Oh yeah. I think hockey does have someone, some one woman somewhere, but there's still so few and far between. Why in the 2020s is this such a big deal? And I'm telling you, when I started officiating in 1979, I thought it would get better for women, but I don't think it has unless you're a woman who officiates in a sport that you played. Clearly, women in the WNBA can officiate basketball, but probably mostly in the WNBA. No, no, I'm going to take that back. The NBA is pretty good about it. Why? Because women play basketball.

Yeah.

But if it's something women play that people recognize that women play, there's probably going to be more opportunity. But let's face it, officials are going to disappear. They're going to be replaced by machines. And then we won't have any. And guess what? I believe people will miss the umpires and the referees, because who are you going to yell at? Who's going to blame the machine? They will miss us when we're gone.

Yeah, yeah, it's going to take away— I mean, just like you say, not only in sports but in society, period, you know, taking all our jobs away from us. So, and let me switch a little bit. Being a former teacher, how does it feel to watch one of your students, uh, follow their dreams and find success? Using some of the tools that you shared with them?

Well, my career as a teacher was a little rocky. I became a teacher— I'm going to give a little background. I became a teacher when I was kind of forced out of television when I was pushing 40. I was suddenly no longer pretty enough to be in front of a camera. And that is a thing with women. And much more in my time than today. They're getting a little better about it. But anyway, I couldn't get a job. Anywhere. And so at 42, I went back to college to be a teacher, mostly because people turned to me and said, you, you've been refereeing kids forever. Why don't you become a teacher? I'm like, I don't want to be a teacher. But I went to school to be a teacher. And I ended up in a Title I school, which means that at least 75% of my kids lived in poverty, with everything that entails abuse, neglect, homelessness, foster care, gangs, all of those kinds of things. And I came in with a hard-ass attitude. Okay, because I'd been what? I'd been in a newsroom, right? If you're not on time, if you're not in your seat, when the red light goes on, your seat is empty on live television, right? And so I treated them like they were grownups. And my kids produced a TV show. And one day they did a horrible show. It was terrible. No one made their deadlines. It was embarrassing. And I read them the riot act. And there's silence in the classroom. And suddenly this little girl stood up, she goes, "We don't need you. We don't like you. We're leaving." And every kid in that class walked out. Wow. Every kid. And I was so confused. I'm thinking, but I'm trying to help them. I'm trying to help them be successful in life. And I stood in front of that classroom and I cried. I'm like, you know, I've been through football and live TV and baseball. No, I didn't cry. I'm crying in front of an empty classroom. And a couple days later, another teacher took me aside and she goes, "Have you ever considered being nicer?" I said, "What do you mean nicer?" I said, "There's no nice in a newsroom. There's no nice on a football field. You just do your job." And she said, "They're kids. You need to be nicer." And I still didn't get it. And a short time after that, there was a young man who was late every day. I took him outside. Gave him all kinds of crap. You can't be late. You'll never be successful. You'll never hold a job. And he's looking at his shoes and he goes, you know, Miss Montgomery, I'm really sorry. He said, but last night I slept on my uncle's couch and I didn't understand the bus system. And I never know where I'm sleeping every night. And I paused and I went, I'm talking— I'm yelling at a 14-year-old who's homeless.

Hmm.

And that changed me. I realized that my job was not to just teach them subject matter, but I had to figure out what they were dealing with every day. You know, we had kids who were hungry. Who cares about homework if you're hungry? So, yeah, I started— I realized what a brat I was and how much I worried about stuff that wasn't the least bit important. And so when you asked me about my students, I mean, I got better. I ended up teaching 20 years. At the same school in South Phoenix. And teachers rarely see their students again. I taught a couple thousand kids, probably. We rarely do. But everyone— some of them hit me up on Facebook. Some of them say nice things, which makes me want to cry. And in the middle of all that, I wasn't able to have any children of my own, which bothered me when I was much younger. And it turns out I ended up being a foster mom. I put my phone number on the board at the end of the year because I worried about the kids for 10 weeks off. You know, will they eat? What will happen? And one kid called me, and I knew something was wrong, but he wouldn't tell me what it was. And I said, I'll see you in the fall, Brandon. I'll put you in my class again. They could take my classes over and over. And he said, OK. And then school started, and he didn't show up. A couple of weeks went by. I called. His number was disconnected. And then he called me. He goes, "Miss Montgomery, I'm hungry." I said, "What do you mean you're hungry?" And he said, "Well, I'm in foster care and they lock up all the food in the morning and they won't feed me lunch because they said they never got the paperwork and I'm hungry and I'm pissed. I'm so glad there were no students in my classroom." I said, "I'm going to call you back." And I'm marching around my classroom swearing like a sailor. And that teacher who told me to be nicer, she goes, "What's wrong?" And I told her, and she said, "Ah, if it bothers you so much, why don't you call foster care and say he can come and live with you?" I said, "Don't be ridiculous. I'm 55 years old. I've never had any children. I'm not a mother." And she said, "Then quit complaining." Well, I ended up with 4 kids. They were all my students. 2 were my legal foster kids. The other ones just decided I was mom. And they are now all in their 20s, successful. Um, I'm very proud of them. And now I'm a grandma. I have a 7-year-old grandson named Adrian. So bottom line is, you know how I told you about those little funny things in life that happen where your life changes course? If they hadn't decided I was too old for TV, I wouldn't become a teacher and I wouldn't be a mom. Yeah. Wow.

Wow. That, that, that's amazing. Uh, that's a hard touching story right there. That's even better than what tools did you share with them, you know, to find success. It, it's something that, that drew the— even though you was a hard butt, you know.

Well, I'm pretty sure half of my students hate me and half of them love me.

Yeah.

Okay. But I will say this, my youngest son, who's now 26, 27, um, is autistic, mildly autistic. His biological family gave him up and they said he'd never be anything. And when he graduated from high school, we, we invited them And they told him as soon as he graduated from high school that he should declare that he's disabled so the government will pay for him for the rest of his life. I said, no, that doesn't make sense. He went to Arizona State University and graduated, no special help. He now works for the Veterans Administration as a nutritionist where he decide— you know, he helps decide what the patients eat every day that, you know, that's good for their health and their medications. He climbs mountains. My partner and I were scuba divers. And he's my one son, my one kid who scuba dives. And this is a kid who everybody said would be nothing. And that— and at his graduation party from Arizona State, I said, what do you want on your birthday— on your graduation cake? And he goes, I wanted to say, congratulations, Troy, one of the 3%. And I knew what that meant. Only 3% of kids in foster care ever graduate from college. And so that's what it said. Congratulations, Troy, one of the 3%.

Wow. I say I like that. Say the devil is a lie. You know, the devil is a lie. Oh, wow. That's amazing. So, and I only have a few more questions for you, and this has been good. I'm glad that you brought a lot of— opened up a lot of doors, a lot of insight for some things. So you're also an accomplished author.

Yep.

And you've written several books. Could you tell us about some of them, especially, I guess, one of the last ones you wrote, The Scent of Rain?

Actually, The Scent of Rain was in the middle.

Okay.

And let me say here, it shocks people, I do not write about sports at all.

Okay.

I write about societal issues, and that probably came from my students. You know, I wrote— The Scent of Rain is about a girl in a religious cult. And in Arizona, where I lived, we had this horrible religious cult where the prophet married 80 women, including 12 and 13-year-old girls. And it was a real place. So I went up there pretending I didn't know what it was and put on my reporter's hat and basically wandered around. And all the women wear prairie dresses and there's no internet, TV, newspaper, radio. They had— they weren't allowed to have any contact with the outside world. It was really screwed up. And their prophet now is in prison. But it— so I wrote about what it would be like for a 16-year-old girl in that world. But I write about things like— I wrote about— The Castle is about a serial rapist, because I had students who were raped. You know, I— kids in foster care. I also write about environmental issues. But my most recent book, which came out in June, on June 6th of this year, which was the 80th anniversary of D-Day, is about a man who was inducted into the Army 1943, and he was placed in the Graves Registration Service. Do you know what they did, those soldiers?

No, I don't.

They— their job was to locate, identify, and bury the dead. Now, you've never heard of them, have you?

No.

Everybody always says, well, I never thought about that. The bottom line is, where do the bodies go? He— Bud was at Normandy on D-Day. He was there D-Day. 10,000 people died that day, Allies and Germans. Where'd the bodies go? We had to funnel 186,000 Allied soldiers, sailors, Marines, people through that area. You can't have bodies lying around.

Yeah.

So the bottom line is when you go to Normandy today, there's a beautiful cemetery that everybody goes to. Bud and his men built that. And all over Europe— actually, we've got— there are American cemeteries in 26 countries worldwide that the Graves Registration Service men built. You know, back then they couldn't ship bodies home that easily. Today, if someone dies in battle, they're home in, you know, 24, 48 hours. But the bottom line is, think about that job. Sometimes all you get is a foot and you got to figure out how to identify them. So I wrote the book from a series of letters I was given that he wrote home and also some stories that his family told. And I'm very excited that in— we were in Indiana, Vincennes, Indiana, over the summer in August, and we had a memorial service for him. He's still buried in France.

I went to school there.

Yeah, did you?

Yeah, Vincennes. As a matter of fact, that's where I met my wife.

We were there. We were there in August, and we were at the Indiana Military Museum, which is in Vincennes, and we had a beautiful service for him with a 21-gun salute and a proclamation by the mayor. It was really beautiful. I had about 20 members of his family came. And so I wrote the book. My friend asked me to write it. It's her uncle. And we wanted to honor not only Bud, but all the men who served in the Graves Registration Service. Because let's face it, when you see a movie, you see planes falling out of the sky and guys shooting at each other, and you see big battles on the ground. But then the page turns or the scene changes, and no one is there to say, what happens next? Look, someone's got to clean this up. Yeah. And they also had to clean up, you know, civilians. And that— it was— it's a horrible, horrible job, and his letters broke my heart. So that's called Your Forgotten Sons. And in fact, I'm going to Georgia this, this week, next week for some more book tour on this. But that— it's a tough book to write, but I'm glad I did it. It's my 6th traditionally published book.

Congratulations on that, and I wish you great success with this book, like, like everything else in your career that you've done. So I wish you great success with that.

Thank you.

Um, so, and let me ask you one more question. Well, two more questions. You're also a movie— you also used to review movies in the past.

What a great job that was.

So, so just tell me, what was, uh, your favorite movie of all time?

Now, did it have to be one I reviewed? Because I wasn't a movie reviewer very long. I worked for, uh, when I got out of television, I worked for a couple of small newspapers. I also worked for some magazines, so I, I, you know, I learned to write in television and I just moved into print. And I was in the newsroom one day and the editor goes, oh, anybody want to go review a movie? And I jumped up from my desk going, pick me, pick me! And I didn't get to do it very long because I got my job as a teacher, and so I had to quit. So if it's something I reviewed, oh gosh, uh, no, no, just, just any movie.

Yeah, just since you're the movie critic and movies your thing, what's your favorite movie of all time? Forrest Gump.

Forrest Gump? I love— and I used to use it. I taught film at the school. And I used that to teach kids about character, setting, plot, and theme. And we would watch it over the course of a week. And it was funny because for years, kids were enthralled by it. They were like, ah. And for me, it's the timeline of my existence. I lived through it. Through. Forrest would have been a little older than me at this point, but I— yeah, I love Forrest Gump.

Yeah, I was just reading something where the lady that played opposite of him, his co-star— yeah, and, uh, I guess they're gonna do another movie together.

Yeah, Tom Hanks and— why can't I think of her name? I know what her name is, but yeah, they're doing another, another movie. And I, I love it, just about everything Tom Hanks does, but that was a wonderful film. And, uh, that would be my favorite.

Yeah, wonderful and long. That was a long film.

Yeah, but you know, I rarely see movies more than once. I'm not— usually once is enough. I think I've seen that 40 times because I taught— used it as to teach.

Okay. Yeah, because, uh, we used to go to— they had a restaurant in, um, in Chicago, and they got one in Florida too, uh, Forrest Gump, uh, Bubblegum. Bubblegum.

Yeah.

And they got the, uh, Forrest Gump themes in there and everything is pretty cool.

I keep seeing the guy that played Bubba. I didn't— I didn't— he looks very different. He's in movies and TV shows today. You won't recognize him as the same guy at all. And, and I went, that's, that's him.

Yeah.

So he's, he's, he plays small parts in a lot of things.

Yeah, I know who you're talking about. Yep, I know exactly who you're talking about. So, and just one more question. Now, like I said, I really For one, what can people follow that?

Well, can you know, you saw my website's the easiest way and it's AnneMontgomeryWriter.com and that's Anne with an E. So AnneMontgomeryWriter.com.

Okay, cool. And that's where we can find your books and everything.

Yep.

Okay, fine.

And my blogs and I put all the podcasts on there. So yeah.

Okay. So, and lastly, what advice would you give to young women aspiring to break into the world of sports, whether as analysts, commentators or referees?

Have a thick skin. Try not to take everything personally. Okay, I know when I started officiating, for example, I thought people yelled at me because I was a woman. They yelled at me because I had uniform. So you, you have to be able to take criticism. And that's across the board. I mean, I took criticism in television, people, one woman called up one night and said, I hate your eyebrows, right? You have to be able to take criticism and brush it off. And you can't take things personally too much. And I'll tell you this, TV was tough. People would write me up in the paper, say mean things. Officiating, oh my God, I had to have a police escort to my car more than once. I had a tire knifed over a Sandy Koufax baseball game. I mean, so, you know, if you're gonna, and those were extreme. And I've had people be mean to me and do me, you know, my peers in television did mean things to me. Bottom line is if you want to do it, you got to push past the naysayers. And there still are some out there. And don't take, and look at no as a gift. Everybody who says no, you go, okay, well, and if you really want to do it, put in the work. You know, I think as teachers, we unfortunately, I remember I've had kids who'd say, I want to be a pro quarterback. I said, oh, are you on our team here at school? No. Well, then how are you going to be a pro quarterback? The biggest lie we tell them is you can be anything you want. And we know that's a lie because Shaquille O'Neal is never going to be a thoroughbred racehorse jockey, is he? So we can't be anything, but we can be lots of things. But we have to put in the work to do it. So if this is what you want, be willing to do the hard stuff. Like, you want to be in television? You're going to leave wherever you are. You're going to move around the country at a moment's notice. 2 weeks, you got to go. If you got kids, or you're married, or you're seeing somebody, you're gonna have to leave. I've lived in 8 states. And so if this is what you want, there's some things you may have to give up for a while anyway. So, so I think, I think you have to be willing to put in the work. And you have to not take things too personally, have a thick skin. And take no as a, as a gift.

So, and any last remarks that you would like to give us before we leave out?

I don't know. I think I've made a lot of remarks. You're probably tired of me by now.

Hey, so one thing she said, I want you guys to take note too. If you got a desire to do something, you have to put in the work. Put in the work and you can accomplish whatever you want to accomplish. Some things you may not, like she say, Shaquille O'Neal cannot be a thoroughbred rider. You see?

So think about Got it. Oh my.

Yeah, so put in the work. You heard it here, right here on the CJ Moneyway Show with the former SportsCenter, uh, ESPN sportscaster lady that, that, that did trail— that, that made a Trailblazer, uh, Ann Montgomery, on the CJ Moneyway Show. Thank you for tuning in. We out of here. Peace.