Dr. Deborah Heiser on Mentorship, Aging, and Global Impact through The Mentor Project

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What's up, my good people? Welcome to the CJ Moneyway Show in association with Believe Network, where we bring you stories of thought leaders, innovators, and game changers. Who are impacting the world in unique ways. I'm your host CJ Moneyway Johnson, and today's episode is about mentorship, aging, and the power of generational knowledge. Our guest today is Deborah Heiser, PhD, an applied developmental psychologist, TEDx speaker, consultant, and the founder of The Mentor Project, a nonprofit that brings top experts together to mentor the next generation across multiple countries. Deborah is also an author and researcher with an impressive background in aging, mentorship, and leadership. Deborah, welcome to the CJ Moneyway Johnson Show. We're thrilled to have you today.

Thank you for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.

Yeah. So Deb, let's jump into this. You have such a diverse and inspiring background. Can you share with us how you got into the field of development psychology and what led you to the Mentor Project?

Sure. It's not a quick path. I was about 19, I'd say, and I really didn't know what I wanted to do. I figured I'd work in an office somewhere, maybe an administrative assistant or something like that, which, you know, I really didn't— I wasn't thinking much about what I was going to be doing for a career. And I went down to visit my grandma, and I used to go visit her all the time down in Florida. And when I went down there, I would always have so much fun, and I never even had to pack clothes because she had the cutest outfits at all times. I just needed shoes. So anyway, I went down for one of my usual trips and she was grouchy and irritable and not cute. She was all disheveled and, you know, unhappy. So I said to the person at the independent living facility, what's wrong with Grandma? And they said, oh, don't worry, we're going to fix her. And I was like, what? And they said, yeah, you know, she is taking a medication and it's new. And it's causing her to be depressed. I didn't know what depression was. I didn't know what a psychologist was. But this person said they were going to fix her. I didn't believe her, the person that told me. But when I came back a few months later, she was fixed. She was better. She was fine. So much better that she had a boyfriend. Like, she was, like, really back out there and better than ever. And so I was like, that's it. I'm going to be a grandma fixer. And I'm going to go figure this out. So I came back home and I took the very long route of getting my undergraduate college degree because I changed my major yet again to psychology. But then once I did that, I finished really, you know, I finished it. Then I went and I got a job in aging at a psychiatric hospital to see if I really wanted to do it, doing research. And then I was like, that's it. I want to do this. So I went on for my PhD. And went that route. And I got out and was studying everything no one ever wants to have or get. So it's completely like banned from cocktail parties because who wants to meet somebody studying, you know, all of the end-of-life issues that I was studying? And then I went to a cocktail party and, you know, I didn't get to go to many of those, but I went to one and somebody said, hey, what do we have to look forward to as we get older? You're an aging specialist. And I was like, oh, I don't know, because I was only studying things no one wanted to have, nothing anyone looked forward to. So I ended up going back to the drawing board and saying, I have to figure out what I want to look forward to also. You know, I'm just putting a Band-Aid on things no one wants to have or get. So nobody wants that. So I went back and I was like, gee, there's so much out there. It's just not making it to the mainstream media. So when I was doing all of this, it was like the Wild West going into the field of aging. We didn't have the internet, you know, we didn't have any of this stuff. So nobody was talking about anything except Alzheimer's disease and, you know, frailty and all of those things that was making it to the headlines of the news. So I realized we have a whole emotional trajectory that no one's talking about. There's 75 years of research on all of this stuff. There are theories and there's all this stuff happening, but just nobody's hearing about it. So I decided I really wanted to take a look at midlife because in midlife there's a stage called generativity, and it's where we're built to want to give back. To others without expecting anything in return. And that's like volunteering, philanthropy, and mentorship. And I was like, hmm, how were we built to want to give back? That's counter to, you know, we're all trying to grab from everywhere. How can that be that at one point we actually want to give back? So I was super curious about this. So I started asking and researching all sorts of people, like 45 people from grandmas to generals. What is it about being a mentor that you like? Tell me about that. Because I wanted to pick something that, you know, a piece of us is being given back. And everyone had the same thing to say. They all would cry. I mean, if you've ever seen, like, some really tough guys cry about mentorship, I saw that. And I was like, wow, these guys are moved by this. And they felt all of them that they were relevant, that their footprint mattered in the world. You know, like the It's a Wonderful Life movie where he has to find out that he made a difference to his community, but he didn't feel it. Everyone felt that with mentorship, like they felt like they lived on in somebody else, like a form of immortality. It was like the Holy Grail was found or something. It was really pretty cool to hear this in 45 different people. And when I was talking to one of them, and everybody kept saying, "Oh, you gotta talk to my friend. You gotta talk to my friend." So I kept getting more and more people to talk to. And one guy, he's one of the fathers of the firewall. So that's how we're all talking on the internet. His name is Bill Cheswick. And he said, "I'm getting ready to retire from being an innovator at Bell Labs. And I'm gonna live on a farm. And I'm gonna have no connection with anybody to mentor." And I'm really nervous about it because I'm going to feel totally irrelevant. He was used to, you know, having his stuff in museums and everybody would come and talk to him about his work. And he was already feeling isolated and unproductive. So he said, I'd like to get into schools to teach kids. And I was like, well, okay. It's not like you could go to a park and say, hey kid, you want a mentor? That's like totally creepy. So, um, We decided to— about 5 of us in the beginning, which moved to about 7, decided to start to see if we could get people to mentor in schools with Bill being the main guy. And it worked really well. And then people just said, you know, you guys are like 7 weirdos that are out there, you know, bringing Bill around and a couple of other people to mentor kids. No one is ever going to want to do this. So I was like, okay, so we'll have fun. No biggie. And then 6 months later, we went to 60, then to 80, then to 100 people who volunteered their time and they were top leaders. We have an astronaut, we have astrophysicists, we have all of these really top people who were like, I want to volunteer my time. So the Mentor Project happened organically because, you know, a band of 7 weirdos decided to see if this theory that's in developmental psychology actually worked, and it does. We're built to want to give back and mentor. So that's how The Mentor Project got started.

I like that, you know, that, and it makes good sense, you know, as far as mentorship, giving back, you know, because I'm thinking about myself on the things, some of the things that I'm trying to do. You do want to mentor younger people so that they don't have to go through some of the trials and tribulations as we talked about beforehand that we went through, not that everybody's going to listen, but you just try to guide them in the right way to live a more productive life maybe than where they're going or saying some of the thought process that they have. So I like that, the midlife mentorship, giving back. I like that. I like that because it makes you think about it. And I believe now that people hear this, they'll probably think about it too. Like, ooh, as I got older, I have wanted to give back and share some of my experiences. With other people and things of that nature. So that's cool. And I wish you guys continue doing that and great success in it. I mean, you say 100, let's make it 500. Let's go out for 500 weirdos.

You know, the funny thing is, in the beginning, we were seen as that. Now everybody wants to join. We have a waiting list. You can't just come in. So that coin was flipped. We— at first, people were like, you guys, what are you doing? Now they're like, hey, Hey, can I join? And so, because they saw, people see that the people that, you know, we have Alan Zweibel, he's one of the first comedy writers for SNL. We have people that people would love to meet. And so they try to join so they can just meet our mentors, you know, the folks in the field. But we really have become quite exclusive in that way because we now know mentors want to give back and they do it for free. No one gets paid. This is 100% free. But you know what we found is that you don't know what you don't know. Like, I was a kid, right? I didn't know what a psychologist was. I didn't know what depression was. I'm first gen going to college. It wasn't like anybody was like saying, hey, here, let me show you the path. We are there to show people what they don't know. Had that person not said, I'm a psychologist and we're going to fix your grandma, she's depressed, I wouldn't— I don't know what I'd be doing, but it wouldn't be what I'm doing now. And so part of it is exposing people to things and saying, look, I'm nothing special. All these people that do their thing, I wanted to do this, but I needed to see somebody else. Like our astronaut Charlie, he's like, I couldn't swim. His biggest hurdle was passing the swim test. There are all of these little things that you learn about people that you're like, you know what? That's like me. Oh, wow. I didn't know that everybody else is normal. They're all regular. They're not up on a pedestal. They didn't have a different journey than I would have. Everybody has a unique, very normal journey to get to where they're going. And I have yet to meet any mentor who's had a golden, easy path laid out for them.

Mm-hmm. What we talked about before we started, you know, there's trials and tribulations that you got to go through before you can go fly up in space and stay there for 6 to 12 months. Things of that nature. Hey, but, uh, let me ask you a question real quick. That as far as your mentorship program project, where you located at in New York? Is it abroad or what?

We're in 7 countries. Last year we gave away about $3 million of mentorship hours in 5 countries, but we've been in 7 countries. So we're everywhere. We are virtual. And then if places want us in person, we ask that they help fund that so we can get somebody to a place. So we've sent one of our artists to a small town in Tanzania called Shirati to teach 500 kids how to do cartooning. That same mentor's gone there twice, and then he just went to Brooklyn this month. So it depends on the place. You know, somebody wants a mentor, they can oftentimes travel there, but otherwise we're virtual. If a person is local to an area, they'll go into a school if they want that, or they'll go to a an event somewhere. So it's really— the idea of it is so that, you know, if you live in Iowa and you don't live near anybody from Silicon Valley, you can get exposure to somebody from Silicon Valley. You can get exposure to somebody from NASA. You can get exposure to somebody who's a world-famous artist. You can have exposure to astrophysicists. You can be anywhere in this country or around the world and get free access to our mentors. It costs nothing for the mentees at all. So we wanted to level the playing field for people. You buy a pair of socks, that's 2 socks. You buy a pair of Bombas socks, that's 4 socks because 1 purchased is 1 donated. Socks are the number 1 most requested clothing item in homeless shelters. So when you buy a pair of super comfortable Bombas socks, you're also donating a pair. Bombas customers have powered over 150 million million donations. So Bombas would like to thank you 150 million times, but we only have like 30 seconds. Go to bombas.com and use code AUDIO for 20% off your first purchase. That's bombas.com and use code AUDIO at checkout. All around the world so that they could get exposure to some of the things that, you know, I benefited from. Like I met somebody who was a psychologist and then I was like, that's for me. That's really what we wanted to do.

Hmm. So, Deb, let me ask you, you specialize in midlife and aging, two phases of life that don't always, as you were saying earlier, get a lot of attention. So what are some things people can actually look forward to as they age besides wanting to give back?

Oh yeah, that isn't going to make too many people jump on that bandwagon saying, "Oh good, I get to give back." So some of the things that we have to look forward to are not just that desire, but really what— and what that stage encompasses more than just giving back is that we sort of take ownership of everything we've done. We spend our entire earlier years developing, right? So we're developing our physical bodies when we're young, and then we're looking to figure out who we are, and then we're looking to find out what we're good at. You know, that's when we get our career, and then who we want to spend our time with. And once we've done that, that's really when we say, wow, I, I like who I am. I know I'm good at some things. I know that I'm an expert in things. And I know that I like the people that I've surrounded myself with. So you get a sense of a lot of that feeling of fear about the future in terms of, am I going to make it? Am I going to do it? Am I going to get there? You're there. And that's actually a really good feeling for almost everybody. So we can expect to be happier as we get older, more fulfilled as we get older. Our connections will be better as we get older. So when you're young and you're in your 20s and you're figuring out who you are, that's when you have a whole lot of superficial friends. You're like, I'm gonna go out to the club, I'm gonna go to this place, I'm gonna go that place. Those aren't your long-term people. They're fun. So you, as time goes by and your time gets shorter, you have a job or you find a partner, you may have children or whatever the deal is, those guys get sort of shoved to the side. You might have fun with them every now and then, but you have a smaller, tighter group of meaningful people. It's really quality over quantity. And so once you hit midlife and you have all of these things that are now what you've carefully curated and made, that's what leads you to feeling happier more fulfilled, more connected, and better. And that's why we want to give back because we're like, "Hey, I just finished filling my bucket full of all these things about myself, including values and culture," you know, which we always forget about, and our traditions. And then we want to give those out to others. So all of those things that we hold really dear to us are bigger mentorship lifts than work-related ones. So if you celebrate anything at the— any holiday, all of that matters to you. We just take it for granted usually. Our religion that's been passed down through for centuries, all of the traditions and values that you get from, you know, grandmas and grandpas gets passed down to the next generation. And that's what we look forward to is shaping the lives of others and moving that forward. So that's what we have to look forward to is really sort of shaping the future with ourselves and what we like about ourselves.

Mm, I like that. And one part that you brought up when you said when you're in your 20s, you go out, you party with friends, but those are like superficial friends. And that's something that I try to tell my son, my youngest boy, he's 14, that don't stop doing what you doing because other— because your friends don't want to do the same things, the interest that you have. You're playing ball, they're not, but you want to tend to be with them. Because at the end of the day, later on down the line, these friends that you have now may not even be your friends. They're most likely to another level, you know what I'm saying, to high school or go off to college. Everybody do their own things. And I know from experience that I've derailed my basketball career because of people that I was trying to, you know what I'm saying, take up for and protect. And as you say, and as we got older, we just all grow apart, you know what I'm saying? So, so you derail some things early on in life for friends that you feel is just going to be there forever, but that's not the case.

So what you're doing is you're imparting your values and wisdom to your son, right? So that's one of the things that we— like, doesn't that feel important to you to be able to say that and do that, and you want your son to embodied the traits that you're presenting to him. That's what we want to do. That's, you know, we can say, I did this route, this one's either for you, you know, go this way or don't. Yeah, we're built to want to do that, and you're doing that as a good father, right? You're like, hey, learn from this, take this in. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, because my father did it for me, you know, and I never forget one phase that he used to always say, if I knew then what I know now, you know, things would be different, you know what I'm saying? Because as you were saying, when you're in your 20s, you want to go to the club, you want to do that. If I knew, I would have valued school more, you know, how more important school is, so that I could have been a PhD. But I didn't have that type of mindset there.

Listen, I loved the clubs, let me tell you. I had my high heels worn out. Oh my God, good time, early '90s, a good time. But you know what, had I not run into that woman that was a psychologist, I don't— you know, we all need that. We need somebody who's been there to say, let me show you.

Yeah.

And yeah, but you know, don't take away from the fun we have when we're young either.

I know, you know, hey, because sometimes it shapes you and it builds you from your mistakes, you know what I'm saying? The trials that we talk about that you go through. In life and when you get older, it builds you. Like, you know what I mean? I've been down that route already. That's not a route, especially as we get older, you want more peace in your life. You know, you want to be more settled and do more things and explore and do the things that you're doing with your mentor project. So Dan, let me ask you, you've been involved in research and aging, depression and dementia, which I would like for you to talk about because I think that's a big thing. I know my wife, she had a family member that went through that. They believe somebody else in their family are having traced with that. So with you, with grants being awarded by the institutions like NIH and Pfizer, how does these experiences shape your understanding of aging and influence your work today?

In the beginning, it, it shaped it because I thought that's all there was. But really our trajectory is that most of us will not suffer from Alzheimer's or any form of, you know, we should not expect that as part of our normal trajectory. We should not expect to be depressed. We should not expect negative outcomes. But that's what we all take in, right? And that was what I was focused on because I thought, oh my goodness. But we now have all kinds of treatments available that we never had before. So in terms of what I would suggest to people is to be aware of these things. What we now know is that, say, for example, with depression, if you suffer from a stroke you're 50% more likely to suffer from depression. If you're on certain heart medications, you might be at risk for depression. We know those things now. You can do things like switch the medication, like my grandma did, and get better. And you can do things like, if you find out that you suffer from an illness like heart attack or stroke or something like that, you can be on the lookout for depression. And then if you start to see symptoms, treat it. And in terms of Alzheimer's disease, they've made so much progress with Alzheimer's disease and dementias that they have medications now and they have all kinds of things that we can look forward to. So, for the most part, I like to tell people it's not like it was in the 1990s when everybody was really afraid that, oh my goodness, am I going to have that gene that I will get dementia or Alzheimer's disease? We should look forward to being really healthy. And if you see signs or symptoms, and you can see this if you go to the doctor once a year, you know, and they measure you from year to year, you can keep track of that. And it's really something that we shouldn't worry about. We should just be on the lookout for it.

That's a good point. Be on the lookout for the signs, as you say. Be on the lookout for the signs and everything. So Deb, let's get to what we, you know what I'm saying, probably came here for and for the real reason you came here. You being an author, you're the author of The Mentorship Edge, which focuses on the benefits and practices of effective mentorship. Can you tell us what inspired you to write this book and what do you expect readers to gain from it?

I was inspired to write this in 2015 and nobody wanted to hear about it. So, but it came about that people started to really want to know about it. That word has been used so much. So often that nobody really knows what the definition is anymore. It's used so liberally that I am pretty sure my neighbor thinks he's mentoring his dog when he walks it down the street. It's that commonly used. And then we all misuse it. So I really wanted to write the book because that term has been hijacked by a lot of different places and used incorrectly. I wanted to give the correct definition. I wanted to show how it's not coaching. It's not being an advisor. It is not all the things that people have been sort of swapping it out for. And to let people know that you're doing it all the time. And if you can learn how to acknowledge it when you're doing it and when you're receiving it, it makes it happen more and more often. And then you gain and everybody else that's around you gains. So I give a lot of examples in the book about what it looks like and how we can utilize it. And you don't have to be a professional to be a mentor. So many people are like, oh, I'm not a doctor, a lawyer, I can't be a mentor. Some of the most dynamic, prolific mentors are grandmas and grandpas, and they're the ones that carry the torch.

So as we're talking about mentorship, what makes a good mentor? Are there any specific qualities or practices that lead to successful mentorship relationships?

No, it's the same as— I'll give you the definition, but I'll tell you this. Everybody asks, and they say, here, I'm going to give you all the good qualities a mentor should have. A mentor should listen. A mentor should, you know, look out for their mentee. OK, it's like having a friend. There are certain things that you want to do when you have a friend. You do not want to throw your friend under the bus. You want to listen to your friend. Use all the principles that you use for having a good friend. Everyone knows how to go have a friend. Mentorship is no different. You do not need a handbook to go be a friend. You know when there's a bad friend. You can tell, right? If somebody talks behind your back, it's not a good idea, right? Use all of those principles and apply that to mentorship. So mentorship has 5 ingredients in it. And it's just like baking brownies. If you leave the sugar out, it might look like brownies, but it's going to taste terrible. So mentorship has that same thing happening. And that's why when we hear about it, sometimes we'll hear about, oh, there was a bad mentor. No, no, no, it wasn't mentoring that was happening. All these things that are out there. So it needs first to have a generativity component to it. A person has to want to give back. So if I came to you and I said, CJ, I want you to teach me all about podcasting. And you're like, I don't want to. That's not mentoring. We don't have a mentoring relationship. Likewise, if you said, Hey, Deb, I want to teach you all about podcasting. I was like, I don't want to learn it. That's not a ment— you know, we need to have both of us wanting the same thing. You're taking your expertise and giving it out, and I have to want it. So it's a two-way street. Second is it has to be intrinsically motivated. And what that means is if you're getting paid to mentor, you're not a mentor. So that's just period. You can argue with me day and night. People try to, and I say, uh-uh, no, it's not. And here's why. If I said to you, CJ, would you like to go volunteer your time at a soup kitchen, giving out food and beverage to hungry, thirsty people? You might say, yeah, I'd like to. That feels good. But then if I said to you, you know what, instead of going to that location, go to Starbucks and volunteer your time giving out food and beverage to hungry, thirsty people, you'd be like, no, I'm being taken advantage of. I don't like that. It feels different. Same activity, different setting. One is intrinsic and one is extrinsic, and it feels very different. So if you're saying to somebody at work, I want you to go mentor CJ. You're on the clock for this, but I want you to go mentor. Now you're going to feel like the person's a burden, A. B, you're going to feel like I better do it because I want to get a raise and a promotion. You know, it leads to a whole different set of feelings. The next thing is it has to be a meaningful connection. Now, we all know what it's like to make a friend, right? Tons and tons of people cross our paths. Some of them we like, and some of them we like a little. And some of them we don't like.

At all.

So with mentorship, it's going to be the same thing. It can be a lot of really wonderful people that cross your path, and they're just not the one that you want to connect with. So it has to be a meaningful one where you're like, you know what, I'm going to open up to you, and I'm going to rely on you. I know that what you're doing, I don't have to keep checking to see if it's OK. The next thing is trust. You have to trust your mentor, and you have to trust your mentee. So if I think I'm going to confide in you, that I don't know something, and then you're going to be like, "Hmm, I'm not giving you a raise. No promotion for you. Bad performance review." I'm not telling you anything. I'm going to be like, "I got it." Likewise, if you are, say, in the finance industry, and you think I'm going to run away with your clients and whatever else you're sharing with me, you're not going to trust me. So there has to be trust between the mentor and the mentee in both directions. And finally, there has to be a goal. So when we have a friend, we don't have a goal, right? But with a mentoring component, we do. So I could say to you, hey, CJ, I really don't know how to do the basics of podcasting. Do you mind telling me some of the basics? That's the first part. There's a goal there. You can say, yeah, I'll show you. Now that goal can shift and change over time. Or I might be like, you know what, I got what I need. Thanks, CJ. And you can say, yeah, thanks. Good. Good luck. But that's what mentoring requires. So coaching is different because nobody cares if the people like each other. The goal is to get the job done, and the job is to get paid. And if you hear about how coaches are with players on teams or whatever, they don't always like each other, but they've got a job to do. It's really goal-oriented and it's transactional. So if you are a coach, and you say, "But I mentor also." No, you don't. You're just being a good coach. That's really where it all is. And that's what I like to make with the distinction between those things is that if you say you're mentoring while you're doing advising or coaching, no, you're doing a good job. It's like saying, "Hey, I love my children." No, you're supposed to. You know, you're doing a good job. That's one of the components that you're supposed to be doing. So I hope that helps, that little description I gave.

Yeah, it does help. And one part of it, and I think that's a key part, just life period, as you talk about building friends and things like that, is the trust factor. Yeah, you have to be able to trust somebody. A husband and wife, you have to be able to trust each other. If not, it's not going to be a solid foundation. I mean, that's just bottom line. So trust is a big factor in anything. Like you say, if I don't trust you, I got a friend or associate That's what we call the people that we really don't like, associates. Yeah. That's talking behind our backs, as you said earlier. I don't trust you. I'm not finna give you $1,000 to go do something for me, you know what I'm saying? To go, hey, I need this here and that. I don't trust you, so I'm not giving you, you know what I'm saying, $1,000 to go do something that I need to be done. But I give it to somebody that I do trust because they— and trust comes over time, you know? You work on that, you know? It ain't something that just comes overnight. Right. So I'm trusting you to give me the correct answer on this, Deb. For those preparing for retirement, which we already seen that the retirement ages are already going up the ladder already. I don't know what it's going to be by the time I get there. For retirement, what advice do you have for them to stay engaged and fulfilled during this next phase of life?

That one's a pretty easy one. And these are the people that I work with most often are people who've come out and they haven't done what I'm going to suggest. So, when you think of your job, most people think of their identity as tied to that. They'll say, "I am a," "I do this," "This is who I am," and it's their job. And when we identify only with one thing or one aspect of ourselves, it makes it difficult when we retire. So I ask people to start adding to your identity card. Your identity card is not your work. Your identity card is all the things that you're good at and that you like and that you want to do, right? So a person might be a painter on the side and nobody would know because they're an accountant by day. And they may say, I am an accountant. That is my identity. Then they leave and they forget that they even like those other things, or they devalue them. They don't have any identity value. So a lot of people, especially around midlife, like to try new things. There's finally a little bit of extra room, like where they can do something. So they might take up podcasting, right? That's modern mentoring. You're giving back to others expertise. That's a really cool thing, right? That can be one thing. You do something outside of your work that may be a hobby. It could be a side hustle. It could be whatever it is that you want. But diversify your identity into more than just your job because your job is a checkbox. Your job isn't anything that you're passing on to leave you a legacy. What do you want people to know about you? So, if you start to think about that before you retire, that helps to set it up for you to get yourself involved in things. Maybe you say, you know what, I want to write a book. I want to start doing stuff with people in my community. I want to get involved in my church or my— synagogue or my mosque or whatever. I want to go out there and do some of the things that I didn't have the time to do. And that gives you more of an identity, a broader identity outside of your, what I call the identity card. It's more— there's more power in that than most of us realize.

I like that. In a sense, I think that, you know, like somebody like myself, as you said, that I do try to think about what are you trying to plan before retirement? What are some of the things that you're trying to put in place, like you say, to be known for? I got a book, want to write another book, things that your family be like, "My daddy wrote a book," or, "My dad did a podcast," something that you want to pass down to people, you know what I'm saying? And certain things. So I like that because your job, nah, I don't want to be known as a steel mill worker. Like, yeah, he worked in the steel mill and that's all I did.

It doesn't give an idea of who you are. So here's another example. I have a friend, her husband retired, he had a business. They call him Grandpa Daycare. He takes care of the grandbabies. And that is something that's a whole new thing for me. Wasn't home a lot when the kids were being raised because he worked all the time. Now he's with the grandkids. That's his thing. That is his identity. Loves it. He gets more than just what he was before. And he gets to now impart all those values that he wanted to impart that feel good to do into his grandchildren while his, you know, child is working and while the son-in-law is working. So it doesn't have to be something profound. It can be something that you just say, you know what, I want that. Now he's identified as Grandpa. That's a pretty cool thing.

Yeah, something like you said. Giving back some of the time that was missed. Although I can't give it to you, but I can pass it on, you know, to my CCs, you know what I'm saying? So yeah, I like that. Yeah, you know, so as we're getting ready to close, Deb, let me just ask you, where can we find your book and where can we find you on social media?

You can find the book anywhere you get a book, and I will tell you, it's out on audio. So if you're a person who likes to listen, like I really prefer to listen to a book nowadays. I can do it in the car or wherever. It's on audiobooks. So anywhere you buy a book, Amazon, wherever. You can find me on social media, on YouTube, on LinkedIn. You can find my articles on Psychology Today, and you can find me at the Mentor Project, mentorproject.org.

OK. Speaking of the Mentor Project, what's next for you in the Mentor Project? Are there any upcoming initiatives or events that listeners should know about?

We're really pushing for this year to be a bigger year than last year. We gave away more than, you know, about 3 million in mentorship hours last year. We want to do at least 5 this year. Some of our initiatives that we want to do is continue with the art program. You know, art's left out of schools in a lot of places, and so we want to really continue with that. We got 2 kids to engage in research, a 15-year-old from Mexico City and a 17-year-old from Virginia. And they learned how to do what's called systematic review. I did not learn that when I got my PhD. Those two kids rocked it. They were on presentations at a national conference, and they're going to be on peer-reviewed journal articles. We want more kids to get exposed to that because nobody— like, imagine, they did something before the end of high school that people that get their PhD don't do. Like, crazy. We want to do more hackathons that are international, and we have an innovation lab that we really are excited about, and we want to really grow that even more. So, we have a lot of things that we'd like to continue with that are in addition to our one-to-one mentoring.

Mm, that sounds very, very interesting. I wish you all great success with that. 5 million hours? Ooh, that's a lot of hours. So, especially when you think about a job, 40 hours a week. So, putting in that type of work, that's a lot, but if you did 3, Why not go for 5? So Deb, and leaving, is it any— do you have any last thoughts for us on the way out?

Yeah, look to your left and look to your right, you're looking at a mentor.

I like that. You heard it from Deb Heiser. Look to your left, look to your right, think it was a movie, say go in one pocket, go in the other pocket, pay the bill. Training Day, that's what that was on. So, uh, So, Deb, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the show today. Your insights on aging, mentorship, and leadership are— was very inspiring. Thank you for sharing your story and for the incredible work that you're doing with The Mentor Project. Before we wrap up, I forgot again, the book, you say it's on Amazon, Barnes Noble. Can we get it on your website as well?

Yes, you can get it on my website. It gives you the links to other places to buy it.

Okay, okay, okay. I forgot if I asked that or not. I forgot what the link was. But again, Deb, thank you for being part of the CJ Moneyway Show. And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review, subscribe, and share it with someone who might benefit from learning more about mentorship and aging. Make sure to visit mentoredproject.org to learn more about how you can get involved and stay connected with Debba's work. Now don't try to get on the list to be into it because they got a waiting list right now. You may be way down the line. So anyway, until next time, stay inspired, stay curious, and keep paying it forward. This is your boy CJ Moneyway signing off. We outta here. Peace.

Thank you for listening to the CJ Moneyway Show. Don't forget to share this episode with your friends, leave a comment, and drop a review. Be sure to tune in every Tuesday and Friday for more inspiring journeys. Who knows, your story might be next.

Mm-hmm.