Escaping Death Four Times: Dr. Robert J. Wolf on Survival, Freedom & the Untold Story of Ervin Wolf

This is Mike Borlow of Lexicon Valley.

And I'm Bob Garfield. Are you one of those people who sometimes uses words?

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Welcome back to CJ Moneyway Johnson, where we honor stories that shape us, challenge us, and push us forward brick by brick.

Today we're diving into one of the most powerful and timely stories we've ever featured. Our guest, Dr. Robert J. Wolfe, is an auroriologist and the award-winning author of Not a Real Enemy. A gripping biography of his father's heroic survival through the Holocaust and communist Hungary. The story is riveting, relevant, and necessary, especially in a world where anti-Semitism, division, and historical amnesia are rising again.

Welcome to the show, Dr. Wolf, man. Welcome to the show, man. How you doing today?

I'm doing well, thanks for inviting me, CJ. I much appreciate it and I'm honored that you have me on. Thank you so much.

Oh, thank you, man. So, Doc, Yeah, let me ask you, man. Roots of resilience. Your father escaped the— in the Holocaust. Yeah, twice. And the Communists twice. 4 escapes. When did you first realize just how extraordinary his story was?

That's a great question, but before I get to that, I want to say historical amnesia. I've got to use that. I love that expression. That was really good. You had a nice intro too. So my dad—

I appreciate it.

Well, my mom and dad wrote the autobiography Not a Real Enemy, the Truce. Well, they didn't have a title then, they just wrote— they documented his history from when he was a child. Actually, it's a history book from when he was a child back to even before, so the end of World War I to the end of the Hungarian Revolution in '56. So I turned their autobiography into a biography. When he did his manuscript, uh, paper and pencil to typewriter to computer to disk— but at the time, 30 years ago maybe, I read the story and I didn't really think much of it, but I did remember his first escape. That kind of stuck with me. And then when we'd have family fights, my dad would remind me how spoiled Americans are, and he would say how tough they had it in forced labor camp. And I didn't really appreciate it then because, you know, I'm a medical student and I'm a resident, I'm trying to raise a family and make a living. So my dad passes away in '97, unfortunately, my mom in 2016. But they were both educators, history and Holocaust, and very well-rounded people, though they had a lot of different interests. And I don't mean to get off the subject, but I'm trying to culminate in a good answer to your question. Yeah, I mean, so when my mom died, took care of her affairs, took a year off to retire, then went back to work part-time as a radiologist. And that actually brought me to the disk where I reread my dad's story. And I said, oh my God, these stories are so unbelievable, these miracles. And with antisemitism in the background, with the whole— through the whole book, I said, I cannot leave this on a disk, I can't leave this on a computer. So I decided to redo it as a biography. It's not word perfect, but as much of a match with the fidelity is what my dad talked about. Of course, we confirmed the history and we confirmed the culture and the time frame, and I had a great co-author who helped me with it. But yeah, my dad had 4 escapes. His first one was in forced labor camp. They thought they were on a death march in the middle of the mountains, middle of nowhere. He and his friend Frank, they were getting beaten and urinated on and starved and illness. And my dad had an infected foot at the time. And just one night, they thought the war was almost over, but they didn't get a lot of information because they're out in the middle of nowhere. Even before that, Jews were not allowed to have radios or TVs or anything like that. They weren't allowed to get any kind of news. And it's another story, it's part of the book, or long before. But yeah, they decided to escape, and so they did. They timed it out, they had about a 3-day window. They went right at dusk and boom, they took off. And what's the— you know, Berman, what's it from ESPN? Rumbling, bumbling, stumbling in the middle of you know, the cold wet thicket in a forest and on the mountains that they don't even know, in the Carpathian Mountains. So they managed to get out, and then, you know, they meandered their way down to Budapest. And that's a great story. I mean, it's just so exciting. And if it were ever a movie, I think that's how the movie would start, is my dad in his forced labor camp and then his first escape, because it's not just one, it's a bunch of them. Yeah. Second one, another great story, really a pack of cigarettes, believe it or not, helped them help save their lives and just on-the-spot thinking, on-the-spot timing, lucky timing. I mean, split-second timing. Out of— they got corralled into this, uh, into what they call the dog pound for forced laborers that were arrested or caught after they escaped. And surely you thought you were going to die, get tortured, thrown in jail, or thrown back to another forced labor camp, but maybe even worse, like Ukraine or Russia, or wherever, you know, or a death camp, of course. So they took off and, um, they got out. It was in Budapest and it was right in front of Nazi headquarters. So amazing story there. Third time, my dad was a medical student. Now this is later on in communist Hungary, and he had had it with the communists. He was a med student, but he wanted to be in a free country. So he decided one night on the weekend to go to the Austrian border, and he BS'd his way with an armed Russian soldier. He's arguing with an armed Russian soldier about how he's supposed to fix radiology equipment in a nearby hospital in Austria, and the guy challenges him, and my dad challenges him back. Says, go ahead, call the administrator, see how happy they'll be. That you're interrupting them. And the guy lets him go through. But my dad, for fear of reprisal and for fear of getting arrested and not being able to finish his medical career, turned back around, went back to his apartment in Budapest, and he was on call the next day. Nobody even knew that he was gone. And then finally, I had a fourth escape with my mom in 1956 at the end of the Hungarian Revolution. Very harrowing story. Cold, muddy, wet, scary Russian lights and planes all over the place. Antisemitic people actually helping them. These renegades and crusaders are actually helping them escape, not realizing they're Jewish, and cussing out the Jews all the way to the end, you know. And then even in Austria, when they finally got there, they had a little bit of booze to bribe the border guards. And even when these guys got drunk, they were complaining about the Jewish people and saying how Hitler wasn't that bad and yada yada yada. And believe me, my mom and dad wanted to argue with them about all of it, but yeah, that would have been stupid and a bad time to do that. So Remarkable stories. A priest helped them with their final escape. They had a baby. They had to abort their first night because the baby was cranky and crying and they had to be dead quiet. Even my dad's coat was squeaking and the guy helping him was complaining that you're making too much noise. So really remarkable stories. Another thing, so 20 miracles in this book, Not a Real Enemy, and including the 4 escapes. Another miracle was an escape he missed. Another It's a great cloak-and-dagger story. This guy was going to help my dad escape. He ended up going to the wrong train station in Budapest, and he thought he was the unluckiest guy in the world. And all the people that made the right train got arrested by the Soviets, including his medical school roommate. So that set him back quite a while, while my dad really— he dodged a bullet there. So the way my dad got into medical school, the way he found out about his parents, what happened to them at Auschwitz, which was not a happy ending. And of course, it's a happy and sad book. I mean, there's no— sugarcoating. There's no pussyfooting around. I mean, it's— we're telling it like it is. Yeah, my dad said that that's what happened, then that's what happened. And so yeah, his parents perished at Auschwitz. Luckily they weren't there too long. Eyewitness from his hometown who told him what happened. And you know, you can just feel that empty— you know when you hear bad news and, and you just get covered by what I call a tinnitus, you know, that ringing in your ear where the whole— like a big, like a subway screeching or something like that, where you can't even hear what the person's saying anymore. That's how my dad described that, and we tried to match that in the book too. So many, many miracles. I mean, it's just remarkable. And, you know, he was my hero in 9th grade, and he was the reason I wanted to go to medical school and become a radiologist, ironically, with the dad with the X-ray equipment. But that was before I knew everything he had gone through in Hungary. And, you know, Hungarians had it tough. And, you know, they wrote the stories as though they knew I was going to do this. Because if you knew me 7 years ago, you'd say, this guy would never write about the Holocaust. He's never I'm not a writer, I'm a math, science, anatomy guy. So in the end, they knew it. And don't you hate it when your parents are right? And the other part is they knew that antisemitism would rear its ugly head again somehow. And sure enough, here it is. So this, whatever happened to my mom and dad 60, 80, 100 years ago, it's still going on now. And the sad thing is how people find different ways to torture each other, persecute, maim, kill, starve. I mean, it's just, some remains the same. This book couldn't be any more relevant than it is now than it was 50 years ago, for sure.

This is the time for it, man. We gonna push this up the ladders, man, because like you say, this is a conversation worth having. And I'll go back to what you said. You said if your dad said it, it happened, you know, because this type of stuff you cannot make up, you know what I'm saying? Like, you just can't make this stuff up.

Yeah, well, even if he made it up, I mean, he'd been a great fiction writer, you know. Yeah, part 2, because we only get them to Vienna, which is like It's a long enough story, but we've got— it was pretty harrowing for them from Vienna all the way to Detroit, where he finally, punchline, delivered 10,000 babies in the Detroit area, which is redemption. It doesn't bring back the 50 or 60 million people that died in World War II, never mind it's just, I mean, 6 million Jews. Like, one person is too much, but, you know, 6 million Jews, LGBTQ, and victims of the war, of course, the soldiers, the civilians. People that helped the Jews with hiding, all kinds of stuff. And that doesn't include how many people were killed or tortured or imprisoned under communist Hungary too, including. So the Jews weren't treated that much better by the communists than by the Nazis, short of corralling them in town squares and hauling them off in trains to have them killed. But forced labor camps still exist too. So very, very sad stories. And, uh, you know, my mom and dad, how they could stay— no sign of PTSD. You know, my dad loved going to work. Loved what he did. The people enjoyed being around him. He had that electricity, you know, he had that dynamism that people just loved. You would never know what he went through. And, and some people couldn't talk about it, as you know, PTSD. Same with Vietnam vets and Korea, I imagine, too. Two wars that we don't even talk about anymore, let alone the Holocaust, which people deny. So yeah, denying 9/11 now too, which is ridiculous.

It's crazy.

Yeah, Americans, Christians, Muslims, Asians. Then we had Islamophobia, which I'm not a fan of. I mean, if you're going to be peaceful to me, you let me run my family, my own religion, my work, let me go to the grocery store, travel, then I'll do the same to you. Respect our neighbors. Threaten to kill me or you or my, you know, anybody because of race, religion, you don't have that right. I think only God has that right, or, and a good surgeon, you know. That's a joke about that.

But yeah, man, you, you touching some, you touching some pain points, man. This is, this is truth, you know what I'm saying? And And speak it how it is, man. Don't hold back on it. Don't hold back on us, Doc, man. Speak it how it is, man.

I got a lot more for you. So my high school, I was, you know, you were raised in the Detroit area. You know Detroit like me, which is, I think that's fantastic. But I was raised in a town called Mount Clemens, about 20 miles out of Detroit. It was a little subset of Detroit, a lot of autoworkers still, but a lot of professionals. I had a good school, a good high school, but about 40% African American. But I was one of 3 Jewish people in that whole, in the whole high school. So There are only 100 Jewish families in Macomb County, and now it's dwindled down to very, very few left. In fact, half the congregation in the current synagogue is Christian, which is kind of funny. Maybe they got tired of Christianity for whatever reason. I just— I don't ask. It's just nice to have new people to meet. You know, we trash-talked. There was bullying. We— but we left it all on the field. There was no swastika signs or, you know, people burning crosses or anything like that. It was a We left it on the football field, the basketball field. We insulted each other. It was amazing, but we left it behind. And nowadays, you know, protests and people shoving and pushing, screaming into cameras and not letting kids and professors in and out of classrooms. You don't have the right to do that. Harvard, Columbia, Yale, all those places, anybody that's smart would give their left you-know-what to get in these schools. And these kids are abusing the privilege. It's not right. And if I'm a parent of one of these victims, you know, these poor Jewish kids that are getting picked on, talk about a lawsuit. I mean, and class action lawsuit and have bad press being a writer. I write every newspaper in the country, you know, and call the dean and the governor and all, you know, we need a little sensibility here. It's just, it's getting a little out of control now, you know.

Hey, so let me ask you, Ryan, man, talking about your book, man, the book have won multiple major awards, India Excellence, uh, Living Now Reader's Favorite. What has the reception meant to you personally?

A great question. You know, I love— can I show a picture of the book real quick? Sure, yeah, sure. Okay, I mean, hopefully it's not too blurry with the light, but so yeah, not real, like you said, 4 awards.

I like that.

So it's— the whole title of the book is Not a Real Enemy: The True Story of a Hungarian Jewish Man's Fight for Freedom. The awards are— getting 4 awards is a miracle in itself, but It does show that people think that the book is well written, obviously the people in the know, and they understand the importance of the material and the messages in the book, you know. So there's that. Secondly, I'm not big into self-congratulations or patting myself on the back. I was pleased to win these awards, but it doesn't mean a damn thing if it doesn't help me fight against antisemitism. It really doesn't. And thirdly, I have such a great team that I've worked with over the years. My co-author Janice, our publisher Amsterdam Publisher, My friend Mark, who's been on this journey with me since the beginning, 6, 7 years ago with the website and social media and all kinds— the guy that did the book cover, amazing book cover, the guy was from Croatia. Never met him. We did it all online and he was really inexpensive and did a great job. That whole team really made the difference. Even the testimonials from professors that we got, it really helps. I can't just say, "Well, it was just me," and that's another lesson I want to give to the kids, whether you're a med student or if you're in business or law. Be a team player and don't be afraid to get help. Don't be afraid to get help if you need it because nobody knows everything. And whether it's legal or writing or graphics or whatever, posting, get help and it'll make you better. Yeah, that's where I'm at with that. But it's an amazing thing when you write a book and you get that kind of recognition. It's just, it's indescribable. And I'm pleased.

So, hey man, You may not want to pat yourself on the back, Doc, but I know what you're talking about, man. So I pat you on the back for that, man. That is a big accomplishment, you know what I'm saying, to get some stuff like that, especially honoring your parents, your father's journey, man, you know, and just bringing that thing to life, a story that, you know, that they couldn't tell themselves. But you said something earlier that made me think about something. You said when you were in the 9th grade, You loved your father. You looked up to your father. That's why you wanted to do what you wanted to do, not knowing the backdrop of his story. So let me ask you this, man. And you talked about this earlier. You said your father, he endured some imaginal adversities. What do you believe, knowing, you know what I'm saying, your father, as we go back to this 9th grade Robert, what do you believe kept your father alive? Luck, grit, faith, or was it something else?

Great question. I mean, that's an hour answer, but I'd say all of the above. Brains and balls, if you forgive me. I mean, very smart, very wise.

To the window, to the wall.

Very courageous. So, fate, definitely. Split-second timing, a little bit of planning, uh, sometimes just a very short period of time to plan. I like to think of some luck as a part of it, whether he's not— he's Jewish, you know, the— he's a Jewish guy with 20 lives, you know. The Luck of the Jewish, or I would prefer to say The Hand of God. I mean, you have to— if you don't believe in God or the help of God by the time you're done reading this book, then there's something seriously wrong with you, because I can't imagine him going through everything he went through and surviving. And we talk about that in the book. We talk about it when I do book presentations— determination, hope, integrity, fear, loneliness, of course hate, persecution, genocide. And ultimately love. And because they did get help from people from time to time too, it wasn't just— it wasn't— but now, you know, not to change the subject, but there's only 15 million Jews, 15 plus. Last I heard, about 15.2 million Jews on this planet. It was estimated that if it weren't for World War II and the Holocaust, it would be about 41 million, which is still small in comparison to like 1.5 billion Christians, 1.5 billion Muslims, maybe more, 1.5 billion Hindu and 1.5 billion Buddhists and Asians. So that's all, you know, that's probably about 80% or more of the planet's population. So if other groups wanted to eradicate the Jewish people, I don't think it would be too hard. You know, it's a horrible thought, but guys like you, you've got my Christian brothers, and I've got a lot of friends that are Muslim and Christian, Asian, from all the walks of life, as my parents did. Uh, you know, thank you for letting us stay. Thank you for— and I, you know, again, I refer to God as And not that we're the chosen people, because I'm not crazy about that expression. I think that pisses people off. I don't think anybody can say whether they're right or wrong about religion because we don't know. I mean, we're not going to know until we know. So we believe, and I respect that. And so I respect the— and another sad thing that you made me think of is that the apathy and indifference in what we're doing. You know, I get it if you don't want to read books about the Holocaust or read books at all because there's so many forms of entertainment now to You know, you've got Netflix and Hulu and golf and fitness and movies and video games, etc., etc., and other great books. But what really disappoints me is the apathy and indifference about people's viewpoint about antisemitism, including in the Jewish population. That to me is— an earlier podcast, the guy said, you know, the opposite of love is not hate, the opposite of love is fear. And I said, well, I guess, but I think the opposite of love is apathy and indifference. And we're seeing some of that now. Not, not guys like you, not guys like that we get to do the book presentations to, and other authors like me, and people that are on social media talking about antisemitism. But there's, there's enough that— that's, I guess that's my job, is to wrap my arms around people that are uninterested or indifferent and just say, you know, wake up so that we don't have happen again what happened back in that during the Holocaust and beyond. Hungary had it really tough for many, many years, most of the 20th century, you know.

So Let me tell you something, uh, Doc. I interviewed this guy from New York, Mitch, my man Mitch. And Mitch on a mission. He say, he say, CJ, I want to get 5 million people that just, you know, saying, had a love for people and want to unite people and just, you know, make this world a better place. I thought 5 million was quite lofty, but you know, that's his dream. That's what, you know, say, that's what he envisioned. I don't know what God showed him. And so I told him to put me on the list, and I told him I try to get as many people as I can to join into this movement that he's trying to do. So I got to include myself. Can I add you in there, Dr. Rock? Call me in.

You know, Million Man March, remember the Million Man March?

Yeah.

I think it was run by a Muslim. I forget who exactly.

Yeah, Farrakhan.

That's right. But fine, I love it. I'm in as long as you're not preaching anti-Semitism?

As long— no, no, no, no, we try to bring peace, man, you know what I'm saying? We're trying to bring peace and love, man, you know, and show that we can do this no matter what side of the fence you on, man, no matter your race or anything else, man. God's love is God love. He don't look at color.

Yeah, my goal is to sell 10 million books. I think if I did that, that would really make a difference, you know. That's only 1% of the LinkedIn population, or 1%, uh, half a percent of the, uh, Meta population. So it's just hard to penetrate. But the word penetrance, we, like we say in genetics, uh, you know, there's genetic disorders with certain amount of penetrance. But if I got a 1% penetrance by reaching out to a billion or 2 billion people, that would sell 10 million books. I think that could really make a difference in getting us notoriety and fighting the hate. I like what you're doing, and count me in. I'm in that group, and I'm sure I can get dozens of other guys and girls to join in too, because one great thing about this journey— and believe me, I've been heckled a lot, I've been insulted, I've been called a clown and self-serving and self-promoting and all this, even by Holocaust groups, if you can believe it. I mean, these, these guys aren't even looking at what I'm doing. They're just, they're just skimming by my name and saying, ah, site, block this guy off, whatever. But it's important to meet important people like you, people that care, that give a bleep, you know. And, uh, that's exactly what this is.

So I appreciate you, uh, Dr. Rob, man. And so let me ask you, man, you said something earlier about, you know, your parents, and they say, you know, they was going through what they was going to— going through, and they said that it's gonna reap its head again. So growing up hearing that, you know, did you have the mindset, uh, you know what I'm saying, like, you know, maybe that was the past and it's not gonna come back? And, you know, say now that you said it is, because You said that the parallels between the 1940s Europe and today are chilling. What similarities do you see that concern you the most?

Well, these protests, the call for hate. Back in Hungary in the '30s, antisemitism was on the rise. The Arrow Cross was like the worst. The Hungarian Jews always feared for their safety, even after World War I. Admiral Horthy was in charge for a while. He was a World War I hero. There was the White Terror, there's the Red Terror. People like— it was like the Russian Gestapo knocking on doors, you know, trying to change people's viewpoint. So later on in the '30s, the Arrow Cross, they hated Jews as much as any. In fact, responsible for the 21,000 people killed at the Danube toward the end of the war. You know, a lot of people know about that history. 21,000 people in 2 months is a lot of people, you know. Nude, and that's the— hence the shoes on the banks of the Danube. So yeah, a lot of similarities, but they use newspapers to spread the propaganda, and now it's social media, so it's even scarier because you can reach a lot of people in a hurry. The other thing is people don't understand history. They don't follow history. They don't read about it. I don't think it's taught properly in the schools. This is where I want— ultimately, I want to teach our story in the classroom. I mean, that's the biggest thing, because hate is learned. It's taught. It's learned at home and maybe sometimes in the classroom, and I'm trying to prevent that too. So similarities that way. I guess people would think differently if they saw Hamas trucks and armored cars and tanks rolling through the streets of Miami and Detroit, New York. Then maybe people think twice, you know, those ugly Palestinian flags. I hate the colors and that, the red for blood, the black for, you know, the darkness. I don't even know why there's white. I guess that's for purity. I'm not a flag expert, but, you know, anyway, can you imagine that, those flags and whatever symbols and people screaming with bullhorns through the streets about hatred and the people that perish. And, you know, people that support Hitler that are African American or LGBTQ and that ideal that the Holocaust was a good thing, they don't get it. You know, you guys were next. This was a race that thought they were superior. They were the Aryan race. Muslims too, you know, this, uh, they were— and this is true for white supremacists even in the US and skinheads. I mean, you guys are on the list too. So They may want to eliminate Jews first, or back, you know, with the KKK, the African Americans, who the Jews supported, by the way, in the '60s. It's well documented that Jewish leaders supported MLK and Medgar Evers and Malcolm X. They marched with them. So when you say million-man march, or you got a 5 million person group and you want to spread the word of peace, then I'm in on that. So yeah, very similar. The mode is different, just like the mode of torture and persecution social media, but that's part of what I'm trying to do is engulf the 99+ percent of people that are relatively normal, that want to raise a family, take whatever vacation they can, enjoy whatever little life, and then get them to surround the ones that are the bad apples and educate them.

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Hey, so let me ask you, Doc, man, let me ask you this. You were talking about the schools, how you wanted, you know, saying things that you want to teach in the schools and things of that nature. Now, how should schools, especially places like Harvard, which you mentioned earlier, Stanford, and others, be teaching this history differently?

Well, I think, you know, I don't know if it should be required, but I think a section on Holocaust studies should be included, I think, in a historical curriculum. I mean, yeshiva schools, the Jewish schools, certain private schools, there are Holocaust studies. And on some universities, I think Emory in Atlanta, Clark University in Worcester, I'm sure many others that I don't even know about. But I think that would help. I mean, history needs to be taught and not denied. Like, you can't just say The Old Testament is right, but the New Testament is wrong. The reason the Jews didn't accept the New Testament is because the religion was established and it was old school. But I can't say, you know, the New Testament is right and the Old Testament is wrong, or this part of history is right and this part is documented. You know, it's like denying hieroglyphics from the Egyptians or Chinese writings. I mean, you can't just say this is true and this isn't. Now, you don't have to teach about that, but I would appreciate it with— especially in these campuses with protests— that If there was— like in med school, we had so many subjects that we were taught, you know, so many topics. Well, why not spend an hour or two having a guest appearance or spending a day having 5 or 6 or 8 authors show up and do talks like ours and with PowerPoints and touching, moving pictures that make a point, that kind of thing, so that people can realize that what they're doing, it's wrong and it's regressive and it's dangerous. And it doesn't have to be college. I mean, college is ideal. Uh, it could be summer reading for high schools or colleges. We could do talks for 6th, 7th, 8th graders. I think that's probably about the lowest age I would go to start because I don't know if we get through to a 3rd grader or 2nd grader, they wouldn't really understand. But I don't think 6th grade, 5th grade is too young to start teaching about hate and educating them about racism and antisemitism. And not just the Holocaust, you know, the Civil War, the '60s, the uprising, you know, the riots. And, uh, nobody even talks about the Civil War anymore either, so Slavery is not— and slavery in the Old Testament and in Exodus, you know, and under the Romans, they just— people do not deserve to have dominion over other people. It's just not— and then we have a problem now with human trafficking. So there's another parallel. Human trafficking is a big issue now. You've got all these airports with the signs, be careful of human trafficking, yeah, yeah. And it's another, you know, that's more control, one person controlling another or many people controlling a person or a group, and it's just, it's inappropriate. It's not palatable, you know. It's just, it doesn't sit well.

And you know, Doc, man, you said something earlier, and I was thinking, just the smoke and mirrors. You say they coming out the— we just look at how things going right now. They come out to this certain group of people, okay, once you get done with this group of people, who you coming out the next, you know what I'm saying? Now we're seeing all the stuff that goes on, you know. It's just smoke and mirrors. They tell you one thing, but you gotta look between the lines for yourself.

And that's a deeper conversation because this stuff is real.

If people really ain't paying attention, it is real. I was just looking at something yesterday. I was reading something yesterday, Doc. We already knew they was going to do it. They took away from the museums or what, national parks or whatever, Martin Luther King Day and Juneteenth. And so as you were saying earlier, make me think about it, they're wiping away our history. They don't want you to know about history, not for us, because we live long enough to know history, but those that's coming behind us, our generations that's coming behind us, so they will have nothing to go by that's documented, you know what I'm saying, that it was a Holocaust or that, you know, it was slavery and things of that nature. They just tried to wipe all that out, man. But that's another conversation. We're gonna have to get deep on that, Doc.

The term useful idiots has come up because, you know, people are easily brainwashed. And I'm not big into that sheep mentality either, you know.

Yeah.

Learn to think for themselves. Instead of protesting and hating people, do something different. If you don't like your job, you don't like your work, cut back, go part-time, change vectors like I did from radiology to being an author. Pivot. Spend more time with your family. Buy a cup of coffee for your neighbor. Go to a movie. Write a book. Write a play. Travel. Do something different. Volunteer somewhere. Give back to the community. Make this world better. It's not that hard. It's as easy to love and it's as easy to share and do the right thing as it is to not understand what you— when you're talking about flesh and blood of another person, that you're talking about something very serious. The irony is that being a radiologist, you know, we're dedicated to the preservation of the beauty of the cell and the anatomy and how the body is put together, and then all the pathology that can happen to it. And then these people wouldn't think twice of beheading you or cutting other parts of your body off or torturing. Starvation is a big thing. I mean, That's a horrible form of torture, starvation, major health issue. It's just the opposite of what I was trained to do. Again, it doesn't sit well. It's not what I was made to— That's not why I'm put on this planet for sure.

I totally agree with everything you said. Just like how some of these people in the military, they're not comfortable with some things that's going on, so they resigning or being forced to resign because this is not what they signed up for. A lot of stuff is, I didn't sign up for this. I didn't sign up to be on podcast to spread hate or, you know, saying things of that nature, whatever. If I ever turn to do that, then I need to stop, you know what I'm saying? Because that's not in me and that's not what I'm trying to do, man. We need more people like yourself, man, and more people like my man Mitch and those who want to, you know, you may be where you at in life, man, but to have the heart and to have the fortitude, man, of wanting to help others, man, and want to see others do better and reach the pinnacle and the goals that they set for themselves in life, man, it's a beautiful thing. Hey, so Doc, let me ask you this, man. Legacy and impact. I think this is pretty big, man. You donate 10% of your book proceeds to the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum. Why was that important for you?

It's a double win. I mean, I'm educating in my own little circle, but giving them the money— and that's in perpetuity, that's actually in my trust ongoing. So even after I'm gone, yeah, that's— and I think it's important so that they get money to help build their teaching, their education, that you can buy books, uh, more pieces of art, photographs, make the center nicer, renovations, that kind of thing. Invite more authors. I've had the privilege of doing 4-day book signings at the Holocaust Museum in D.C., and I could do that every day. I mean, I was educating kids and adults and people from all over the world— Australia, Canada, Europe, all over the United States— and believe me, I could do that every day. We sold about, I don't know, 200 books in 4 days, and that was really Remarkable experience. And then of course I've done other Holocaust Museum presentations— Chicago, uh, one that was sponsored by Zuckerman in Detroit. The book is available there too. And the Long Island Holocaust Museum. I was supposed to do Houston, but somehow through logistics that got postponed or canceled and they dropped the ball. But I'm still working on it. I don't give up. There's one in LA, there's Dallas, there's places all over that I could still— that are untapped. Not to mention Jewish community centers, synagogues, churches. I've done church. I did a great Greek Orthodox Church book presentation with one of my best friends from 9th grade, was the priest there, and my assistant was my best friend from junior or freshman year college, Saki, who's Muslim. So we've got a Jewish guy and a Muslim guy doing a book presentation for Greek Orthodox Church. I can do a bunch of those too, you know. So I'm open to— I don't say no to anything. I did a book presentation on a cruise ship in Italy and I went to Vegas once for a live in-studio podcast too. So I don't say no to things as long as it's not something ridiculous and as long as I can afford it, I'll continue to do this. I mean, Zooms are great, podcasts are great, but live presentations are also nice. You get to meet people, you sign books, and you really get to, like we're doing now, carry the conversation a little bit further.

Yeah, that's cool, man. Doc, man, you got a good life going on, man. You got a good life going on, man. Keep doing it. Hey, Doc, I only got one more question for you.

2 more questions for you.

Hey Doc, man, before we go any farther, man, let us know, man, what can we find Not A Real Enemy— where can we find you at on social media, man? What's your handles and where can we get to the good doctor, man?

Uh, that's so nice of you. I, you know, I want to mention the military because you mentioned them. I think we should have more military presence like they do in Israel at all these places I just mentioned. The schools, the museums, the synagogues, churches. It shouldn't have to be that way, but I think it would protect a lot of people because we know that church was attacked in Michigan not that long ago, synagogues from time to time, you know, and across the world. But I can't control what's going on in Australia, but we can control what we have in the U.S. Anyway, Not a Real Enemy by Robert J. Wolfe, M.D. If you Google Robert J. Wolfe, M.D., you'll find me. That's my YouTube channel, which is really nice. It's loaded with content. My website is robertgwolfe.com. Also a lot of videos, a lot of history, very, very good content. And the book is available on Amazon. If you Google Not a Real Enemy, I think Amazon would be the first thing to pop up, but also Barnes Noble system, Walmart, the Holocaust museums I've already mentioned. And you can find me on social media. I'm across the board there. X @RobertJWolff, I think it is, or @RobertJWolffMD. I'm on TikTok, LinkedIn, which is my favorite platform, very professional. Instagram, Blue Sky, and what's the other one?

Meta.

I think that's it. It's like 6 of them. It's enough. It's a lot of work, but I enjoy doing it. I enjoy meeting people. I guess I met you through PodMatch, I believe. It might have been, but some people through social media and we continue to do so. But easy to find, Not a Real Enemy or Robert J. Wolf, MD. Please reach out. We do book talks, like I said, book presentations. If you like the book, write a review, help me fight antisemitism because I can't do it by myself. I need an army of people to help me do that. So if you do see the book and we want to reach out, like I said, I'll do a Zoom with you. I'll do a live or even a review. It'd be nice. Any conversation about it.

After listening to this episode, go grab your copy of Not a Real Enemy. My man Dr. Wolf got a goal. He say he trying to sell 10 million copies and he's traveling all around the globe as far as Italy to get it done. Hey, so Dr. Wolf, man, let me ask you, man, What do you hope young listeners, especially non-Jewish listeners, take away from your story?

Well, it's a great question too, and it comes up a lot. First of all, realize how good we have it in this country. You know, badmouth your government, you got to vote, okay? You get to walk into a church, a mosque, a synagogue, and practice religion. Don't take that stuff for granted. We get angry when we got to wait in McDonald's line for more than 5 minutes.

Take—

sit back and smell the roses and enjoy the coffee. Take more time, you know, more— appreciate what we have in this country and realize— and also the other messages we talked about: integrity, hope, determination, be a team player. We talked about that. It goes a long way. The other thing I like to say is there's no substitute for experience. That was true in a medical profession. It's true in sports. If you play sports, if you read, if you write a book, you're going to learn as you go and appreciate that. You're hopefully better. You improved over time 20 years down the road, no matter what you're doing. Integrity, determination, team play, and appreciation, and a little bit of tolerance. And a Jewish friend of mine hates the word tolerance. You know, he says acceptance. It just feels like you're just marginalized. But love is the word. And you don't have to love me. You don't have to love everybody, but just reach out, be friends, be— be a decent being.

Yeah, be courts, you know, be— there's nothing wrong with holding the door for somebody as you walking out and they walking in and things like that. But you know what, Doc, man, one thing that I had to learn that I've been dealing with with me lately is in order to have a mindset on something, because people are like, you know, that's my mindset, I got me— first you got to have a thought, and then when you had a thought, then you can work on that mindset, you know what I'm saying? But if I don't have a thought about a mindset, then what really is my mindset? And I had to realize that I had to get my mindset right first, and that was on me. I had to focus on me first. And once you get a mindset about yourself and come through the cracks and through the— now I can focus on Dr. Wolf, you know what I'm saying? Now I can focus on Mitch and those that's trying to make a difference because I have more confidence in myself that, you know what I'm saying, about purpose, about fulfillment and things of that nature. But if I don't have a foundation to set a mindset on, man, I'm just saying, mindset, that's void, you know what I'm saying? I'm just saying something that's void. I'm just talking. It's just like how we be on Facebook and Somebody may have a death in the family, or they say, pray for me, then you put up the praying hands, but you don't pray though. You don't pray. You just put up the praying hands and just keep on moving, you know what I'm saying? Say what you mean and mean what you say, you know. That's just my thing. And if you can be real with yourself, you can be real with anybody. But if you ain't real with yourself, I can't be real with Dr. Wolf because I'm lying to myself every day.

That's so well said. I gotta remember to use that, use to use that too. So That's— I couldn't agree more. So my mindset changed. The motivation for doing this story was— it was changed by just reading the story itself. And then I thought, I've got to share this. And I— and that's, that's where I'm at. I mean, I mean, I helped thousands of people over the years with radiology, with medicine, and I've got great stories that would probably go into my next book if I ever get to it. But I got paid, I got compensated for that too. So it was still gratifying helping all these people. But now I'm trying to help people that I don't know and people It's a totally different business, writing and trying to sell an opera or a record album or a book or a movie. It's a completely different business than practicing radiology, for sure. But it's enlightening.

Yeah, it's a lot of grind. I tell you what, because you said something earlier about building teams and things of that nature. Me and you were talking backstage and you say how you do this and how you do that. We're talking about some of the things that we do. You know, you love to be creative, but when you find your passion in life, when you find your purpose, you know, it may be dreadful or whatever, whatever, but boy, it gives you so much joy.

Joy.

It gives you so much fulfillment that you're gonna keep going, you're gonna keep— and God gonna keep giving you ideas and opening up new doors and opening up new ways to do this and new ways to do that. But at the end of the day, I can figure some things out, but I know my lane. Like, like you were saying earlier, I know my lane. I know what I can't do, you know what I'm saying? I know some of the things that I'm not good at, but I, you know, I know I built the blueprint. And so when I get the people around me that can fulfill what I've done because they know the know-how, that's when you start going to Italy like Dr. Wolf. That's where you start going to California for book That's when you start going to the Coliseums, you know what I'm saying? And this and that, because now you built the system, man. It's a brick-by-brick process. But I'm telling anybody listening right now, if you got a passion, you got a purpose for something, man, go for it. Ignite that flame, man, and go for what you know. Hey, so Doc, man, let me ask you this question, man. It's gonna be my last question for you. I appreciate you taking the time out today, man, coming on the show, dropping these nuggets. What's the one message your father would want the world to hear right now?

Can I do my—

I'll do my terrible Hungarian accent. Don't do it for the money. Do it because you love it. Don't do it for the money. But he used to have all kinds of great expressions. But that's— I mean, I've got so many, but that was one. I don't know, he's— there's so many. I just— but that's the one that just comes to my mind. My mom, she was I'm going to— sorry about my bad Hungarian accent— we would not belong to the Nazi Party and we would not belong to the Communist Party. We vote here in the United States for the best candidate. And I love that because again, she had the freedom to vote and the freedom— by the way, my mom got bat mitzvahed in her 70s and I don't think my dad was ever bar mitzvahed. So, and the year before, I, you know, loved the medical part of my dad's work that, you know, we spent a year preparing for my bar mitzvah in 8th grade. And it was a wonderful experience. So that kind of freedom to be able to— and so I'm sure my mom was very, very pleased that she got bat mitzvahed. But not to get off the subject, but those memories sit well with me. And they told me so many things that resonate through my head from time to time. And I guess this is, you know, I was lucky. I was raised by good parents. And this is the legacy I'm paying them back with my child, which is the book. I'm an only child of only children. So I'm not leaving anything really behind. I have stepkids and stepgrandkids. And they follow me, they respect the book, and I'm sure they're going to try to help sell the book once I'm long gone. And, and it only benefits them because they're in the trust too. So it'll be a movie someday. A lot of people say it should be. I've already mentioned that earlier, but they'll, they'll do, they'll do well if the movie does well, you know. But the movie business is fickle now too. It's very, very tough. So anyway, that's, uh, yeah, my dad and mom had a lot of good life lessons. And again, appreciation of what you have and Oh, and one other thing my dad used to say was, enjoy every moment. And he meant it, you know. And especially as he got older. By the way, he went through 2 open-heart surgeries too. After everything he had, he had a bad— he hurt a spine injury and he had 2 open-heart surgeries. Survived all that too after he was— after he's already practiced. This guy is just— he's indestructible, you know. Enjoy every moment. Nobody's bothering you. That's— I love that. So I like it.

I like it. Hey, Doc, enjoy every moment. And like he say, don't do it just for the money, do it for the love of it. And once you do it for the love of it, God will open up doors so that you can live an abundant life. Hey, Dr. Wolf, thank you for bringing this story straightforward with courage, clarity, and conviction. Not a Real Enemy isn't just a book, it's a reminder, a warning, a legacy, and a call to rise above hate with truth Empathy and strength. To everyone listening, history doesn't repeat itself because we forget facts. It repeats itself because we forget people. Let this story live in you. Let it sharpen your perspective. Let it strengthen your purpose. You can grab the book, watch the interview, and support this mission using the links that would be in the show notes. Hey, this your boy CJ Moneyway on the CJ Moneyway Show, where stories build us brick by brick. See you in the next episode. Hey, this your boy CJ Moneyway with my man Dr. From the Detroit area. Until the next time, we out of here.

Peace. A reminder that your story matters too. Keep your faith sharp, keep your focus steady, keep your vision clear. And if this episode gave you wisdom, hope, or a push forward, share it with somebody you love.

Tap in with me on all platforms, @JMoneyway Johnson Johnson. And stay locked into the movement because God's not done writing your chapter.

This is the CJ Moneyway Show. Brick by brick and always Moneyway.

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