Kay O’Sullivan on The CJ Moneyway Show: Inspiring Change and Unleashing Potential

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Welcome to the CJ Moneyway Johnson Show podcast. The podcast show where we unlock potential one dream at a time. Today we have another guest whose journey is truly worth hearing. Sit back, relax, and enjoy the Moneyway experience.

What's up, my good people? Welcome to the CJ Moneyway Show in association with Believe Network, the podcast that brings you stories behind the success. Today we are thrilled to have bestselling author, keynote speaker, and lifelong changemaker, Kat O'Shea. Sullivan joining us on the show today. Kat, how you doing today?

I'm doing well. It's a beautiful day and, you know, great things are happening, so I'm good.

Hey audience, just so that you know, Kat said, ah, it's just moderate here, it's only 75 degrees on this day today. I'm in Northwest Indiana, right outside of Chicago, and we're at 35 degrees. So I told her I would change weather with her at Anytime. And we have some things, uh, some forecast, I think, on the, on the northeast coast where we at. They say it's gonna be so— the weather is gonna get terrible. It's so cold. And she's from Los Angeles, so she knows nothing but beautiful weather. So yeah, yeah, let's start by getting to know you a little better. So tell us a little bit about yourself and your background, and, uh, what inspired you to start writing and using your voice to create change?

Well, if you want to know my early beginnings, I'll tell you a little secret.

Okay.

I was born in a secret city.

Mm.

And that had a big influence in my life. It wasn't by choice, but I, at one point, was labeled a bomb baby.

A bomb baby.

A bomb baby. Because my parents were recruited to go to Los Alamos, New Mexico to help basically launch us into the nuclear age. So it was a top secret city, and originally my birth certificate showed I was born in a PO box. But at age 10, I finally got a birth certificate that showed where I was born.

It took you 10 years old to get a birth certificate?

Yeah, because it was finally declassified enough that they could put where I was born on my birth certificate.

Wow, yeah, that's interesting.

So, you know, being— having— I was crossing the border from Canada to the U.S. And when the border agent asked me where I was from and I said Los Alamos innocently, the guy behind me declares, "A bomb, baby!" Mm. And oh my God, I was just like devastated. I'm like, what? You know, I was like, thought I was going to faint, you know.

Wow.

I hadn't thought much about the fact that, you know, I had been in this, you know, born in this into secrecy until I heard that label. And, you know, I just wanted to crawl in a hole. I mean, you know, it was, it was way, way, way before 9/11. So, you know, people were laughing while I'm cringing. Yeah, because they didn't really understand the weight of that label. And, you know, labels are powerful. And, you know, we can allow those labels to determine who we are. Or in that moment, I made my own declaration: that is not what I'm going to be known for.

Mm.

And so, you know, my life has been a pursuit of what is it that I want to be known for. And one of the things I speak about a lot lately is something about challenging how we think about our legacy. I believe how we think about it is dead wrong. And what I mean by that is we tend to think about our legacy as something like we're going to leave behind after we're gone. And the reality is we're living our legacy every moment of every day, choice by choice. And that's a pretty humbling thing to embrace, you know, because how many of us I mean, how many, how many of your audience, how many of you woke up this morning thinking, I'm going to live my legacy today? Yeah, we don't. You know, we're so busy being busy.

Yeah.

And unfortunately, you know, for most of us, myself included, at different times, you know, we wake up one day and we realize, oh my God, we're going 100 miles an hour. In the wrong direction.

True.

So, you know, I really want to encourage people to pause and think about, you know, who are you? You know, who would people say you are? And what would other people say your legacy is based on how you're living your life now? You know, when we stop long enough to ponder that, like I said, it can be kind of like, oh, wow. You know, I really haven't thought much about it. So I really am, you know, feeling passionate about challenging people to take that breath and step back and say, is what I'm doing reflective of what I want to be known for, the legacy that I want to be known for? And if it is, great. If it's not, We are always at choice. We always have the opportunity to step back and change course if need be and figure out what is it that we really want. And a lot of us have been brought up with the belief that pursuing what we want is selfish, or God forbid, we don't deserve it. The reality though is it is okay to want what we want, to pursue that thing that's like tugging at our heart that we're passionate about. And of course, the challenge with that is often what we really want, that thing that's tugging at our heart, feels impossible. Mm-hmm. You know, whatever our circumstances are, whatever our mindset, our beliefs, whatever is keeping us from pursuing what we really want. And sometimes, you know, like, I'll ask the question, so what would you do if you knew you couldn't fail?

Hmm. Yeah.

I mean, really, like, what would you do if you absolutely knew you couldn't fail? And you asked me what inspired me to write my book, which is called From Doubt to Do: Navigating Your Path to Possibility. What motivated me is realizing that all of us, myself included, when we ponder something like that— what would I do if I knew I couldn't fail?— first thing that happens is doubt. Fear, worry. And if we give in to that, you know, we're gonna be living a life of status quo because anything really transformational evokes fear, you know. I mean, and just to let your audience know, that's normal, it's natural. It's what we do with that fear. Do we allow it to keep us stuck, or do we work through it to be able to get to a point where we can take that first step?

Mm-hmm.

You know, and that first step, it is always the most difficult. Yeah, because it is like you're stepping out into the unknown. Yeah, and I have to be totally honest with your audience, like, when I decided to write this book about From Doubt to Do, guess what happened? I immediately was frozen with doubt and fear and worry, like, oh my God, can I really do this? Is it really gonna matter? You know, I mean, just all those messages were screaming in my head. Until I said, okay, take a breath. I opened a blank document and I just started typing my thoughts. And the reality is, the minute we actually take that first step, momentum takes over. And, you know, next thing I know, I've got one page, then I've got two pages, and so on and so forth. And the next thing I know almost felt like magic, but it was a lot of hard work too. I was submitting my final manuscript to the publisher.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And then when the book got published, guess what happened? Oh my God, I totally freaked out. I was back in doubt and were like, oh my God, I've put all my life out on paper. What are people gonna think? What are they gonna think of me? What if it's a total flop? I've put all this energy. I mean, again, like, all these thoughts. And the funny thing is, the ironic thing is, guess what I had to do? I sat down and read my book from front to back. And it was the only way I got over it because I had to, like, take heaping tablespoons of my own medicine. You know, all the things that I had learned that helped me do the seemingly impossible over and over again in my life that I share in that book and all the lessons learned and everything else. I didn't realize when I wrote it, it was going to be as much for me as it was for those that are reading it. Because you know what? No matter how advanced we are, how transformed we are, The next time we step into the unknown, the same thing happens. It's just how quickly do I catch myself? You know, how soon do I recognize it and course correct?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I mean, I totally agree with you. You know, I've written a manuscript. I had a book published in 2015, got one that's coming out early part next year. So I know that just that medicine of, like you say, I put myself out here. What are people going to think? Think, or, you know, y'all, like you said, you always had that self-doubt. You know, when I started the podcast, that first step, you know, oh, I'm gonna do it. I think I might hold off. Oh, I want to bring other people in with me. Nah, that ain't gonna work either. Sometimes you just, you know, just got to take that step, like you said. And, uh, so, so, Cal, listening to you, and so, like you say, you know, from the moment you heard, you know, what the guy said at the border, that you had made in your mind that you're gonna make a difference, you're gonna, you know, say and change that narrative. So your writing has been described as inspiring transformational change. So that's it in a nutshell right there. So can you share more about how your books accomplish this and what drives your passion, which I think, as you say, we try to find certain things in life to do, you know, say what purpose can we serve. So What drives your passion for helping others?

Well, I was very, very fortunate at a young age to have an opportunity to travel with Up With People. Now, I don't know, you know, you might be too young to know what Up With People was or is, but it's basically an organization that gives young high school and college students an opportunity to travel for a year and perform in a 2-hour musical performance that's intended to inspire the audience, to create unity, to bring people together. And, and the cast, 100 cast members, stay with host families wherever they go. Now, when I saw my first Up with People performance at like 14, I I was so inspired and it was like, I want to be able to make a difference in the world, you know. And up to that point in my life, I had pretty much a lot of negative messages growing up about what I could or couldn't do. So this idea of being able to be part of something that could transform my life but also other people's lives, it became a dream. And at 16 they created their first high school cast, and I applied against everyone's— you know, if I'd listened to everybody, I never would have applied. I never would have got accepted. And when I did get accepted, I had a challenge because I needed to find a sponsor to pay for my travels for a year. And being young and naive, the great thing about being 16 is you don't know any better, right? So I literally picked up the phone like this and called NBC Studios, and this is how it went. Hi, this is Mary. How can I help you? I'm like, hey Mary, this is Kat. Can I speak to Bob? Now, to make a long story short, Providentially, Bob was there and they put him on the phone. Now what I didn't tell you is I was calling Bob Hope, the number one entertainer of his time. Yeah, right. And I knew that he valued Up With People. He had actually done it, was emceeing, had emceed an Up With People performance. So basically I shared with him my vision for traveling with Up With People, how it would change my life, how I could be I want to be a changemaker just like him, you know, because he was very philanthropic. And next thing I know, he said, hey, I'll sponsor you. And he paid for my year on the road.

Wow.

Wow.

Now, that year changed my life. I mean, traveling for a year with 100 people I didn't know before, 15 staff teachers, because we were doing high school on the road.

Mm-hmm.

While we were performing, staying in people's homes. And not too long after I got involved, they invited me to be part of their PR team at 16, to go ahead of the cast to find those host families, to work with sponsors, to do all the logistics of the performance that was gonna be in their town. Which was a lot of responsibility with very little adult supervision.

Mm.

And it was the best thing ever.

Mm.

Because I've discovered I can do stuff. I can make stuff happen, even when it seemed impossible. And let me tell you, there were some really impossible things that I had to overcome to find homes for 100 kids and 15 staff and work with the promoters, etc., etc. And then they invited me to stay a second year to do the PR. So 2 years, 16, 17-year-old on the road and, you know, staying with host families. I learned so much about, on the one hand, all our differences, you know, and at the same time realizing we have a lot more in common than we have different. And it really changed my perspective because I grew up in a very white, middle-class suburban neighborhood, you know, never outside of that environment. Now I spend 2 years staying with, you know, families, everything from living in a shack to a mansion and everything in between, all different races, cultures, you know. So it really helped me become who I am and how I think about myself, how I think about others, how I think about what's possible. And after leaving Up With People, I tried like a traditional, like, work in a corporate environment, and I quickly realized this ain't gonna work. You know, I was way too disruptive. The first thing I wanted to do when I went— when I started any job was to figure out how they could do it better.

Mm-hmm.

Didn't last long. So I mean, pretty quickly I realized I'm gonna have to do something else. I'm gonna have to be an entrepreneur. I'm gonna have to have my own business and figure stuff out. And, you know, so I did, and I had many opportunities as a result to affect change. To take situations that seemed impossible and take it on and figure it out. And let me tell you, I never had all the answers when I said, I'm going to do this, you know, none. You know, that experience, those 2 years, I realized, you know, you can figure out anything. And let me tell you, back then we didn't have computers, cell phones, internet, nothing. We have so many resources now that whatever you want to do, no matter if you don't know anything about it, if it's your passion, if you really want to do it, you can figure it out.

You can find it out.

You can find it out. So there's no excuse, you know?

Exactly.

It's really about making— I have 4 C's that I talk about in my book. The first C is courage. Which is you got to have the courage to ponder and pursue something new and different. It takes courage, and there's no courage without fear. So you got to be willing, you got to have the courage to work through that. And then it's all about clarity, the second C. You got to get really crystal, crystal clear about what it is you want, what you want it to look like, and just as important, why you want that. Because that why is critical for the third C, which is commitment. To have a hell yes commitment to making something happen, you have to have a really strong why. Because the first time something goes a little astray, guess what? If you don't have a strong why to fall back on, you're going to bail. So you got to have courage. You got to get clarity around what and why, and you got to make a hell yes commitment. And then it's all about building the capacity, the fourth C.

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And like I said, there's no lack of ways to learn into the unknown, you know. Yeah, YouTube, I mean, Google, everything. Yeah, endless things available. Plus, there's also people.

Yeah.

You know, people who are more than willing to help if you ask the right people.

Yeah. I had a guy say, he said, if you ask the right way too, you know, it's the way that you ask. But a lot of times if you don't ask, or if you ask for the help, follow through on what you asked for. You know, I had a guy tell me that, that's, you know, a pretty successful, actually a hip-hop legend.. And I thought that was, you know, one to grow on to, just as what you're saying. So, Kat, tell me, as we're talking about your book From Doubt to Do, you talk about— so, you know, you talk— you just talked about the 3 C's, but you also have some other things, some other takeaways from your book. I would like for you to expound on that a little bit. So one of them is empowerment. There's another theme in your book. How do you define empowerment? And why is it such a key element in overcoming self-doubt and moving forward?

Empowerment is all about owning who you really are, being authentic, being transparent. Because when we try to pretend to be somebody else, it's very disempowering.

Mm-hmm.

Our true power comes from accepting who we are, owning who we are, and stepping out in that power. You know, I spent so many years— maybe you and your listeners could relate— I spent so many years trying to please other people, trying to be who I thought I should be based on somebody else's, you know, perspective. And empowerment, a lot of that requires that we let go of the shoulds, we let go of the have-tos, and we step into who we are, who we're called to be. And I believe that we all are called in some way, you know, to something. And if we listen to our heart we'll figure that out. If we listen to everybody else, you know, we're going to be going in all kinds of different directions. And then, like I said, wake up one day and think, oh my God, this is not where I want to be, you know. But it's like, we can live our life by design, or we can live it by default. We can be on autopilot or we can take control and say, this is who I am, this is who I'm called to be, what I'm called to do, and I am going to step out and I'm going to embrace that, be that. And in doing so, we attract the resources, the other people who are aligned with that. It's attractive. You know, when we're trying to pretend to be something we're not, it's repelling.

Mm-hmm. I totally agree. Actually, I was just working on something right before I got on the call with you. And you just said something that, that resonated with me on what I was just saying. We all have a purpose in life. We, you know, it's just about— and this goes to what you were saying earlier too. It's just about defining it and finding the purpose in your life, you know. And a lot of times we have to go through certain type of things and, you know, different, you know, situations and different trials and tribulations. And then a lot of the times too, that we just don't want to get there. We don't want to figure out or go through the yellow tape to find, as you were saying, the authentic, the real me. You know, my voice, because we want to, you know, so used to being— I was telling somebody this earlier, Kat. People are so used to judging the shell of you.

Yes.

Person that you used to be instead of the person whom you are. So I don't get offended when people judge me based on how I used to be 20 years ago, 30 years ago. That's not who I am today. So, you know, that don't offend me. But those— that's the perception that people want to linger on in life. And if you, as you were saying not too long ago, and if you let people dictate who you are, what you should be, and we continue trying to please people that would never be pleased or satisfied with your life, you know what I'm saying, period. And if you continue letting them dictate who you are or what God wants you to do in life or what he has called you for, to do, we'll always stay tangled up, you know. So, uh, so let's get to this. Yeah, I love this one. And well, I thought about it before we started. You coined the phrase shift happens. Tell us what that means and how it relates to making magic happen in life, especially when dealing with major transitions.

Yeah. So I mean, let's face it, shift happens and, and we're, we're facing a lot of shift in front of us, right? So when shift happens, we can either give into it. I mean, when shift happens, let's face it, it's disruptive.

Mm-hmm.

And we can either be at the effect of that disruption or we can choose to make magic happen. And I'm not talking hocus pocus. I'm talking about the magic that happens when we do give ourselves permission to step fully into who we are and what we really feel we're called to be and do. That's where the magic happens. It becomes a magical disruption. And, you know, I share Like, I've learned how to make disruption my BFF, my best friend ever, right? Because nothing really significant happens without disruption. Again, you know, it's status quo, it's autopilot, it's whatever. And then we wake up and we're like, how did I get here? But when shift happens and we decide to make disruption our friend and figure out how do we leverage that disruption. That being said, I mean, we can be disrupted. We can also cause disruption.

Definitely.

And I'm known for being a disruptor, you know, in a good way. I mean, I'm, I'm known for being willing to go into a situation that seems impossible or that's totally stuck and say, how can we disrupt it? What can we do fundamentally different than what we've been doing to create the outcome that we really want?

Mm-hmm.

I mean, it's the only way that progress happens. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, I'm thinking about, you know, this next year and all the disruption that's going to— all the shifts that are going to happen.

All the shift that's going to happen.

All the shift that's going to happen. And I am committed to figuring out, no matter what happens, how can I use that to create a magical disruption? Now, you know, it starts with me in my life. Like, you know, we can talk about disrupting the world, but it starts at home. It starts with each of us and our own willingness to disrupt who we are, to become who we're called to be for that purpose, you know. And, and I often say, you know, like, who is just waiting for CJ to show up? And how is CJ going to change that person's life by who you are and whatever your passion is? And, and again, these are humbling thoughts.

Yeah.

You know, and they're provocative thoughts. But really, I mean, back to the— what would you do if you knew you couldn't fail? Who is just waiting for you to show up?

Hmm.

It could be a person, it could be a community, it could be an organization. Who is just waiting? They don't even know it yet. But you could have an impact on their life, on their organization, on their community because of that calling, because of your passion and your purpose and your desire to affect change that's going to move people forward, that's going to help transform their lives.

I can't— you, you definitely talking to me because I told you, and I appreciate it, you know, by the grace of God, you know, that we having this conversation at this time. But like I said, I was working on something. I'm working— I'm actually working on another podcast that's coming out next year. I got a trailer coming out January 1st, and it's called Planting Seeds with CJ. And as you were saying earlier, this is— I, I believe— I love this platform because I love meeting interesting people like yourself and the people that I've been, been meeting. Uh, Corwin CJ Moneyway Johnson has been sending me a lot of people and I really appreciate it. But this is about you. These stories are about you guys. But, uh, Planting Seeds with CJ, it's more me. It's more being my transparent self. And as you say, the calling, trying to reach people and things of that nature, trying to make a change. In other people's lives, you know, for a positive thing. That's why it's called planting seeds. Yes, I can't, I can't force change, but what I will do is just throw some stuff out there so that maybe you can linger on. Because there's one scripture in the Bible, and I'll get to my next question with this, Kat. It talked about the sower that sowed, and it said that he went out and he sowed here, he sowed there, and someone was on thorny ground, and some of them, you know, saying, withered away. And when pressure came, this and that. And one thing that I noticed from that was it was the same seeds that was planted, the same seeds, but all the seeds had different results. Some got 30, some got 60, and 100-fold, and some went to the wayside, uh, you know, because when pressure came. And so all you can do do is plant the seeds.

That's right.

Some of them gonna grow, some of them not. And Bible say that some plant, some water, but neither one of them is nothing because it's God who gives the increase. And so all I'm doing, Kat, is doing my part, as well as what you're doing, you're doing your part. And I appreciate that.

And, you know, I will say that in all the things that I've taken on that have been really significant transformations, Some people thought I was Mother Teresa and other people thought I was Satan incarnate. So not everybody is going to love what you do.

Exactly. Right.

That being said, when you know that this is what you're called to be and do, and you're stepping out in faith and you're making it happen. The people that are ready, as in your scripture that you were sharing, the people that are ready are ready, you know, and, and they're just waiting. Like I said, who's just waiting for you to show up? That requires us to show up.

Yeah.

And, you know, if somebody's not ready, it's okay. It's totally okay. You know, it's not up to us to judge. Right?

Yep.

We just put it out there and the people that are ready will take it. And the people that don't, we bless them and send them on their way. And, you know, it may be that someday down the road they'll be ready and they'll know who to come to.

That's how it don't happen overnight, right? You know, it really does. Just like a farmer that plows his field and they're getting ready to plant the seeds for the season. They go a long time plant going up and down with the tractors and everything, you know, up and down. And so it don't happen overnight, you know, when somebody plants it. When you got consequences, when you do things because there's no consequence at the time that you do it, don't mean that there won't be consequences later on down the road for the exact thing that you did at that moment, right? So that's life. And so like you said, and that was a point that I touched on earlier, It don't matter. You look just like when you used to go to church. You didn't think that you was receiving anything, like, oh, I'm playing with my Tonka toys and I'm doing this and that, or, you know, playing with, you know, you're playing with your Barbie dolls or whatever, but something was resonating there, you know what I'm saying? We may not knew what we was getting at the time, but something was transpiring. And like, now you can live your best life, say He had his hands on me the whole time, regardless if they say I was from a, a bum location or whatever. God knew exactly where I was gonna be then, and he knew, he knew where I was gonna be at this moment right now. So that's what we can hang our hats on. Hey, so Cat, I really enjoyed you. Two more things. Can you tell us where can we find your book at first, and where can we find you on any social media platforms?

So actually, the easiest thing is to go to my website, which is kat@katosullivan.com. And on my website, there's a page for the book, there's a page for my coaching, there's a page for my speaking, and there are links to all my social media. So that's the easiest thing is just, you know, go there. Now, of course, the book is also It's available on my website, and I love for people to get it there. However, it is also on Amazon and everywhere else that you can buy a book, you know. So, you know, it's From Doubt to Do: Navigating Your Pathway to Possibility.

From Doubt to Do, you heard it. Kat O'Sullivan, go grab the book today. Kat, don't forget to send me your website, email it to me so I can put it in the show notes when it's getting ready to go out. So I have one more question for you, Kat, and then I'll let you go and enjoy this beautiful day you have in Mexico. And I'll continue enduring this cold weather here in Northwest Indiana. So Kat, can you share a personal story from your book that exemplifies the transformation from doubt to action? And how does that story reflect the core message From doubt to do.

Wow. I think the most compelling story is one of the last stories, and it's a personal story. I have several, you know, in terms of how I've transformed industries or whatever, but the most compelling is Vanessa. Vanessa was abandoned by her family when she was diagnosed with a terminal brain tumor at 5 and a half years old. And about 5 months later, I get a phone call from a friend who wanted to know if I would support her at the hospital because her son had been diagnosed with a terminal brain tumor. And I have to tell you, you want to talk about doubt? I'm like, this is 9 o'clock at night. I hate hospitals. I hate doctors. This is not a best friend. This is an acquaintance. Why is she calling me? You know, I'm like filled with doubt about, do I really want to do this? You know? And there was something tugging at my heart that said, go. And it's, it's a long story, but it's a beautiful story. While supporting her, I got to know Vanessa. Who was on the same unit, ended up taking Vanessa, which I had never intended to do any of this, but I felt called to do it. She was given 3 months to live when I took her. She lived 26 years.

Wow.

And talk about a transformational journey. It was not easy. And yet, you know, people say I was an angel, and I'm like, hell no, she was the angel in our life. She was amazing. She reflected God's love, God's grace, God's compassion in the most horrific situations in terms of her health. And, you know, anytime I was feeling sorry for myself, all I had to do was look at Vanessa and say, okay, God, you know. But this was definitely something that an innocent call became a calling. And I, you know, I often think, what if, what if I hadn't answered that call? How different would my life have been? How different would Vanessa's life have been? And I would just say to your audience, you know, What are you hesitating, you know, to say yes to that could transform your life and transform somebody else's life in the process? Yeah, it's a beautiful story. I encourage people to get the book, if nothing else, to read this story because Vanessa's story is incredible. It's very inspiring and thought-provoking.

Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that tidbit with us because that is inspiring. It says a lot about you, says a lot about your husband, you know, your family, things of that nature. Man, God works in mysterious ways, I tell you.

Well, he does, because like I said, never in my wildest imagination did I ever think I would do something like that, ever. You know, so we just never know. You know, we never know how something that comes across our path can be transformational if we're willing to say yes.

Say yes to his will. Hey, From Doubt to Do. If you don't do nothing else, get the book to read the story about Vanessa. Hey, so Kat, I really appreciate you coming on, sharing that story and all the other nuggets that you gave us today. If you had anything to leave with my audience, us today, what would be the one thing on your heart that you would like to leave us with?

I would say be willing to take that first step, whatever it is, just take that first step. You never know, you know, where it's going to lead, but you'll never know where it's going to lead if you don't take that first step.

Mm, you heard it here on the CJ Moneyway Johnson Show from Kat O'Sullivan. Take the first step. You have been listening to the CJ Moneyway Show with your boy CJ Moneyway. Until the next time, we outta here. Peace.

Thank you for listening to the CJ Moneyway Show. Don't forget to share this episode with your friends, leave a comment, and drop a review. Be sure to tune in every Tuesday and Friday for more inspiring journeys. Who knows? Your story might be next.

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