Kirk McCarley: Reinvention at Any Age – From HR Exec to ESPN, Coach & Author | CJ Moneyway Show

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What's up, my good people? Welcome to the CJ Moneyway Show in association with Believe Network, the podcast that highlights inspiring stories of transformation, resilience, experience and personal growth. I'm your host CJ Moneyway Johnson, and today we have someone who embodies the philosophy that it's never too late to discover your purpose in life. Our guest is Kirk McCauley Johnson, a former human resources executive turned career and life coach, production assistant with ESPN, which we just got through talking a little sports, uh, spinning instructor, and author of My Thoughts for My Kids and Other People's Kids. At 68 years young, Kirk's story is a commit to long life, learning, and the power of pursuing passions at any stage of life. Kurt, welcome to the CJ Moneyway Johnson Show. It's a great pleasure to have you, man. How you doing today?

I'm good, CJ. It's my pleasure to be with you. It's my pleasure to be with anybody at 68 years old.

Hey, like, like you say, man, when we started out, thank God for being above ground, man. No matter what's going on today, hey, we here today to talk to each other and, uh, enjoy life, man. So Kurt, You've had such a dynamic career, man, from working as a human resource executive to becoming a life coach, working with ESPN, which I know is a great experience, and even leading spinning classes. Can you share your story with us, and how did you find yourself in each of these different roles?

CJ, I was born and raised in Texas and had an average upbringing. One thing that I am grateful to, looking back, for my parents, and it was very unintentional, is the area in which we grew up in was a melting pot of diversity. The elementary school I attended looks like an affirmative action plan, but above and beyond that, we were also an experimental school for Fort Worth Public School System at the time, where kids with disabilities Blind, deaf, physical impairments were incorporated into the mainstream, and our role as those who were sighted and able was to guide a lot of these kids throughout the school, help them out, help them get into mainstream. So that was very critical. It was, uh, DEI before it was even a word back in the '60s. I fell in love with sports when I was about 10 years old. I was introduced to basketball and that took off. And that was my sport. I really enjoyed it, but I was also mathematically gifted. And I would look at the box scores, particularly baseball. I transitioned over to that for a while. And this was in the days before we had electronic calculators. So I was fascinated with what the statistical aspects of the variety of sports was, so much so that I didn't have a calculator. It had to be longhand division to figure out a batting average. Pretty soon, with my gift in math, I was able to memorize differentials. And so I know— knew if a player was 4 of 19, he was hitting .211. If he got a hit the next at-bat, he'd go to .250. If he went back to the bench, he was at 200 at either 5 of 20 or 4 of 20. That was my gift that led into ESPN later on. I went to school at University of North Texas, stayed in North Central Texas area, met my wife there when it was at a party, and we have been together for 45 years coming up this July. And I definitely benefited from that. I hope she did. You would have to ask her about that. But from that marriage, we've got a couple of kids, 7 grandkids. Some of them live in your area in Lake County, Indiana. We've already identified that. I got into HR with my background and my degree. That was my primary job for many, many years. Recruiter for my fraternity in college. And so, I liked connecting with people, bringing people into the brotherhood, so to speak. And that seemed to lay a foundation for what I was going to do later on. I went to work in my first job out of college, went through some management training, and said, "I like this area." 6 months later, the Personnel director was gone and I was installed in that role. Learned a lot from doing things incorrectly, and I continued doing things incorrectly in that career for the next 35 years. So I got into coaching late in that career because I was looking to do something different. I was drawing retirement income or was scheduled to, but wanted to launch in a different direction. I considered several different things. But it was about the third meeting I had with the coach who I hired where I told him, "I want to do what you're doing." And that launched that career. That was in 2013. Went back to school, got educated about coaching, and launched my coaching business about 8 years ago. We were living in St. Louis at the time. A lot of people from St. Louis were coming to the Destin, Fort Walton Beach area on the Gulf Coast., and my wife and I knew very little about it. Let's go visit for spring break. We did. We fell in love with it. This is where we've ended up. So that is a 3-minute or more summary of what takes us to this point.

Now, that's pretty cool, man. By the way, congratulations on your 45th anniversary, man. That's special. I got a long way to go to get there, man. I'm only 15 years in. Another thing that I found fascinating, man, is you breaking down them numbers that if somebody was 4 for 19 and if they get a hit, they go to .250, but if they go to the bench, they go back to .200, man. Yeah, that is definitely, definitely a gift. So man, that was astonishing. So Kirk, man, you've been in the coaching space for quite some time now. What have you learned about yourself through helping others navigate their own careers and their own personal lives?

I've affirmed that I don't have the answers to everything. The clients I work with do. My job as a coach is to be in relationship with the individual, to build trust, to build confidence in my abilities with them, and then to build their self-confidence so they believe what it is that's deeply ingrained they can do. I thought when I first entered into coaching, I was gonna be giving advice and telling people what to do. It's not that at all. It's helping people on a journey to self-discovery and then serving as an accountability partner to them. To get them to where they want to be, not where somebody else wants them to be. So the first thing I've learned: be curious, be in relationship with the individual, don't have the answers for them. And through that, I have learned a ton through the many different people I've gotten to intersect with from coast to coast, North and South America and even over in the Eastern Hemisphere.

I like that, man. Building the relationship and not going in thinking that you have all the answers. I like that because that's the only way that you would really get things out of people as far as trust and things of that nature is when you do have that type of relationship. Because I mean, I know in the space that you in, a lot of people not open to just telling somebody all they business, you know what I'm saying, up front. It has to be a trust there. And the only way to build trust us is to build that relationship. So I like that, man. I like that. So, Curt, faith often plays a significant role in guiding your life choices. How has faith influenced your journey and the work you do today?

In my last position as an HR director, it was a tough couple of years. We had irregularities amongst elected, some appointed officials in that organization that I was in. And I suffered through that and had some of my ethics that were challenged. I stayed true to them, fortunately. But during that time, I relied on God a tremendous amount. And He seemed to be talking to me. He calls me son a lot, CJ. Son, if you can make it to this point, I've got your back. "I'm going to take care of you." And I'm not going to say it wasn't hard and that there wasn't criticism that came from that, and that was difficult to stomach. But I made it to the finish line of where He seemed to be taking me. Then once I launched that business, I gave it to Him. God, I really don't know what I'm doing with this. Show me the way. Guide me in each client interaction that I have. Bring me to sacred intersections with these folks that I'm working with. Help me to personify your presence in everyone that I'm in connection with, that they may see a little bit of the light and the glow that comes from your presence. Now, looking back on that last couple of years, I had my final organization. I realized the value that came from the challenges, from the hardships that were associated with it. And I was able to keep my head up, walk into the sunset, so to speak. And others in that organization who stuck around faced some pretty significant hardships themselves—punishment, even jail time. And so I was protected. Through that experience, and the Lord delivered me out on his timing, which ended up being the right time for me. Mm, glory be to God.

Boy, something about the protection and just the comfort of God. And as I'm listening to you, I hear, "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all his righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you." And as I'm listening to you, man, I see that as you were saying, you put God first. You know, like in all that you do, Lord, even when you got the business, Lord, help me, you know, to interact with the— it's all on you, it's all on you. And a lot of times, like you say, you know, we take criticism for our walk because a lot of people can't see or they don't hear when God is talking to you. So they really don't know. You know, I always revert back to the story of Joseph when he had the dream and he tried to tell his brothers and he tried to tell his father the dream. They didn't understand it. They didn't like it because they didn't see the dream. They, you know what I'm saying? They wasn't in the dream, although they was a part of the dream, they just didn't know it. But as I'm listening to you, that's what I'm reminded of, of the story of Joseph, man. And thank God that you kept going even when we don't know the direction that we going in, you know what I'm saying? Lord, I'm trusting in you because he said he will lead our path. And hey, so let me ask you, Kirk, man, With your background in HR and now coaching, you've worked with a, a wide range of people. What are some of the common limiting beliefs you see in your clients, and how do you help them overcome their barriers?

CJ, particularly among Millennials and Zs, I hear this two-word phrase over and over again: imposter syndrome. Mm-hmm. And I understand that. It's that feeling that we're somewhere that we don't deserve to be. Years ago, I still get this dream recurrently every now and then for my ESPN assignments. I'm so blessed and I'm so excited to go work these games, but I would have this recurrent dream of I had to get to a facility at a particular time and I just couldn't get there. Every obstacle was placed in front of me, a traffic jam. They wouldn't admit me into the stadium. I'd get to the wrong place in the press box from where I was supposed to be. My headset didn't work. My computer didn't work. And my good friend years ago who was a color analyst, Bill Curry, Coach Bill Curry, he interpreted that dream for me. He said, Kirk, I've had those before. When I coached, when I played in the NFL. It's the subconscious thought that you don't believe you deserve to be where you are. And I see that amongst a lot of clients. It parallels into self-confidence. And some of these clients will admit that to me. I need self-confidence. I'm going into an interview. I'm not comfortable. With what may be asked of me, what I might say in response, and I'm scared about making a mistake or saying something that's gonna be taken the wrong way. What we do in those cases is we are human. We're gonna make mistakes. When we make those mistakes, how do you respond to them? And that becomes the focus of accepting our humanness and accepting what you're going to do and how you make adjustments. So many people in interview preparation, "What are the questions that are going to be asked of me? How do I respond best to them?" I'll come back with 50% of the interview is going to be the questions you ask them because it's going to demonstrate that you know enough to ask the right questions and that you've studied the organization and prepared yourself. Even if you've stammered or stuttered through your responses during the interview. So overcoming limiting beliefs, self-confidence, remedy, accepting our humanness and the mistakes and errors we make.

I like that, man. You know, because I interview a lot of people and I hear that word a lot myself, imposter syndrome. But the way that you just broke it down and explained it, I hadn't heard it be explained like that, you know what I'm saying? Like people will say it, but they never go into, you know what I'm saying, the terminology of it, the meaning of it. But what you saying that people don't feel as though they belong where they are, you know, and it becomes an inside thing, it's a mind thing, you know, I hadn't heard it like that before, man. So I'm glad that you broke that down. And I'm pretty sure my audience, you know, if they, I'm pretty sure they heard it before too. And you know, the way you broke it down, man, you simplified it. And you gave me a different view how that is, man. So thank you for that. So Kirk, man, at the age of 68 years old, you still discovering new passions and pursuing them with energy. What advice do you have for people who feel like it's too late in life to make a change or follow a new path?

For each of us, keep moving, keep in motion. Physically but also mentally. Stay stimulated on what you're exposed to. Seek to learn new things. I had an NFL event in Cleveland last month. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's in Cleveland. CJ, I spent 7 hours there. I'd come to my mecca, so to speak, as far as music was concerned. I learned a ton of stuff. And I apply so many musical metaphors in my coaching that it enhances that. It broadens my perspective of a lot of things that are taking place, going on in the world. So number one, look for new things, stay in motion mentally and physically. Secondly, what's that bucket list look like? What's still needs to be checked off. For me, I never thought I'd be an author, but some things came together and led me down that path. I learned so much about the publishing world, things that I didn't know. I know a little bit now, but there's still a lot more to learn. That's going to come in future years. I've got an idea, a concept for part 2 of what I've written the first go-round. To the degree that you can stay physically challenged, continue to do that. Every year, every January, I've got fairly warm weather down here, I get back on the bike again. Am I gonna be able to do these bike events again this year? Yeah, let's plan on age 68, where that adventure takes us. So we're in this journey, it's a marathon. And I'm going to keep running it as long as I can because there may be something that's real exciting that I go down the path and it's like, ah, this is that. I never thought I'd come a few years back, right across Iowa, and there was a turnoff led me to the Field of Dreams from the movie. Oh yeah, Kevin Costner, James Earl Jones coming out of the cornfield. I was there. This is cool. If you build it, they will come. So just the excitement that comes through the obscurity, it keeps me juiced. Yeah, I hear you, man.

I like the way that you broke that down too, you know, just keep it moving. You know, I was just telling somebody yesterday, uh, one of my little brothers, I was just telling them yesterday that, uh, just be prepared for just getting preparation because like you just said, you know, about publishing books. I say you learned a little bit, but some of it may come later on down the line, you know, whatever. But as long as you preparing yourself, and when the door is open, be prepared to go in the door that's open. But a lot of times we're not prepared to go in the door that's open, and so we find ourselves still stuck at the door that we was at because we hadn't prepared ourselves in advance to go through the door that God is going to open for you. Because there are some things that we need to know, you know what I'm saying, to get to each level. Each door has different Levels, man. So, you know, say I like the way that you broke that down. Prepare yourself and be ready to go on that next journey now. I don't know how long it's going to take for it to come. I may not publish another book for another 10, 15 years, but when it's time to come, Kirk say I will be ready. I feel you, man. I feel you. I'm liking this. Hey, so Kirk, let's go to another note, man. We've touched on it a little bit, but I want to know your insights on this, man. You've also worked part-time with ESPN as a production assistant. That sounds like a fascinating role, man. I mean, I watch ESPN all the time. That's where I get all my news from, so I'm excited about that. So can you tell us, man, what you do and how you got involved with sports broadcasting?

Well, the how goes back to college days, and one of my roommates was a broadcast communications major, and he was working in a large market. We were just north of Dallas. Professional sports were there. He made a connection with KRLD, which was flagship station at the time of the Dallas Cowboys. He ended up being the first play-by-play announcer on radio for the Dallas Mavericks when they got the franchise back in '81, I guess it was. So at 23 years old, he was already on a very fast track. He later moved to San Antonio, play-by-play for the Spurs. When that happened, Raycom was a production company that was doing Southwest Conference football at the time, which is no longer around. It's been absorbed by the Big 12 and other conferences. At any rate, he was asked 'do you want to be our play-by-play announcer?' He contacted me, remembering our time in college when I was supplying statistical information right off the top of my head. 'Would you be my statistician?' Yes, I signed on on that. And so we were going to lovely places like Lubbock and Waco, Texas, and Austin. And we did that through 1995 when the Southwest Conference disbanded and again absorbed by some other conferences. To date myself, there was ESPN in 1995. In 1996, ESPN2 launched. Would you be our broadcast team for ESPN2? So that's how I entered into that relationship. Continued to work for him for about 13, 14 years until he went back and was talent broadcaster of the Texas Rangers. I stayed with ESPN and to this day continue to work with them. So that's how I got involved in that business. And I will say this, subsidiary of the Disney Corporation. I don't know what character I am, but they've been a wonderful organization for me to work with through the years. I have nothing but good things to say about Disney and ESPN.

Yeah, I just bet, man, that that's like a dream come true job. Let me ask you a question real quick. I've interviewed a young lady. Do you know Ann Montgomery?

I do not know Ann. Okay, okay.

Yeah, I interviewed Ann. She was telling me she was one of the first, you know, women broadcasters on ESPN. I think she did Phoenix Suns games. She did games. Wow. Phoenix Suns back then or whatnot. So, uh, so yeah, man, that's pretty cool. So I gotta ask you another question, man, because I know it's a lot of facets to working behind the scenes at ESPN. So there's a lot of things that goes on behind the scenes in sports production that the audience at home never sees, like myself. What's something surprising about sports broadcasting that most people wouldn't realize?

There's a delay behind what you're seeing and hearing and what's actually being broadcast. And I would say we have Janet Jackson's breast to thank for that. Uh, I remember that.

I remember that oh so well.

Going back to that Super Bowl. But things sometimes need to be cleaned up, and we've got to take a very quick look at it before it can actually be broadcast out there. So we're seeing it live. It's going to be a delay of a matter of seconds, not noticeable to the person that's viewing the event or listening at home. The degree of preparation that goes into broadcasting the event with engineers, sound people, video people, camera people, even in radio, that's a crew of about 7 people that are bringing production together. What's gonna be said in the production? How are we going to describe the game? What happens if the game gets out of hand? And that's when these guys really earn their pay, because how are we going to carry an audience when the score is 40 to nothing? Mm-hmm. Speaking of the talent and really everybody that's involved, but especially the talent, myself, the amount of preparation that goes in familiarizing ourselves with teams and individuals before the game, records that may be established or broken, and being prepared for when those moments in an event take place so we can communicate that. And the other element, which is chemistry, is do the people work well together? And this crew that I worked with on radio this past year, it was just very homogenized. We worked well together. And I think, uh, Component of that, we all have such diverse interests outside of sports. We've got myself, we've got car dealership owners, we've got professors, lawyers, attorneys. They all have these outside interests and they bring all that together from different areas of the country. The harmony, the esprit de corps just works tremendously well and the listener can hear that, that, hey, these guys genuinely like each other. I like listening to how they broadcast. That's cool, man.

You know, one thing I like, I know you definitely see it like during the Christmas games and Thanksgiving games and things of that nature where they introduce you guys behind the scene, the people that actually make things happen, you know, and they give their way, they have this cameraman, you know, say they way because You know, they say if it wasn't for you guys, they wouldn't be able to do the jobs that they do. You know, like you guys travel from state to state each week and then have to set up and then have to get everything, you know, like you say, together and plan and this and that. So the viewers like me can have a fun experience or a wonderful experience watching a basketball game on ESPN or a baseball game. So that's cool, man. So I'm glad that they give you guys your props and, you know, saying your flowers, you know, for what you guys doing, what you bring to the table. Let's turn the courses here, uh, Kurt. You've not only active in the world of sports broadcasting, but you also lead spinning classes. And I need to know, what is a spinning class and what prompts you to become a spinning instructor?

A spinning class is basically cycling, and it's like, uh standard non-movable cycle, bicycle that you see in health facilities. It's next to a treadmill or next to a stair stepper or cross trainer or some equipment like that. But what this is, is a class that's designed to build both strength and cardiovascular stamina. So there's a gear on it that you'll add gear, add tension— it makes pedaling more difficult. But a spinning instructor will coerce the participants in the class, "Let's maintain the cadence that you have right now." That becomes increasingly more difficult to do as there's more tension on that bike. We'll allow the participants to gear that back, only to bring it back up again. So it's like high interval intensity training. Cardio goes down, cardio goes back up, will resemble climbing a hill like you would on a bike where you're building those thighs, those quads. And it's an intense workout where a male's probably gonna burn 700, 800 calories in that hour-long period the class takes place. So how did I get into it? When I got to my 40s, began to start paying the penalty for Getting lazy in a defensive position in basketball, rather than bend the knees, I bent the back. I suffer from that now with back pain. I couldn't run as I wanted to anymore without it being painful. I had a friend, one of these individuals that's kind of like one of the 5 people you meet in heaven, that said, "Kirk, you ought to come take a spin class." I did. I got hooked, and I'd been doing it several years. Bob, who was 75 years old at the time, said, "Kirk, we ought to become instructors." And I said, "Okay." Bob was asking me. Bob and I became instructors. Bob's in his 90s now and still leads class. So, I couldn't turn down— that was a challenge I couldn't turn down. And 16, 17 years later, still doing it.

Mm, you know, my wife just signed my son up 'cause he plays sports, run track and play basketball. She just signed him up to Platinum Fitness the other day. I think yesterday was his first day going. And so with you saying that, man, at first when you first said it, you talk about, you know, doing exercise where you like going up a mountain and things. I was sitting there like, mm, I don't know about that, but it sounds pretty interesting, man. So I think I might go with him and see if they have something like that there, man, because I need to stay in shape too. And if you say Bob still doing it at 90 years old, I know CJ could do it at 51, so I'm gonna get out, I'm gonna look into that, man. So, Kurt, I only got a few more questions for you, man. I appreciate you coming on, sharing this insight with us today, man. But let's get into what we came here for. Let's talk about your book, man. Your book, Thoughts for My Kids and Other People's Kids, it really sounds intriguing. So let me ask you, man, what inspired you to write this book and what message do you hope readers take away from it?

When I launched my coaching business 8 years ago, I needed to market it. How am I going to market it? Got a website, most businesses do. What's going to attract people to the website? I'm going to write blogs. What are my blogs going to be? I don't know, CJ. I had no idea. And some would say, son, you still have no idea. But it would be observations I would make, things that I'd been exposed to throughout my professional career, things that I learned, lessons when I was much younger, things that I observed people doing in the realm of leadership communications. So, couple blocks, 10 blocks, I interacted or engaged with an individual who runs a publication here who— so it's a monthly publication, a tabloid. That goes out to many of the visitors who come to our area. And I said, I'd like to get some exposure for my business. Could I have some column space? And he gave it to me. That was 7 years ago. I don't know what he was thinking, but I've got a monthly column to write. So those were comprised of the blogs. He said to me, this was about a year and a half ago, these are pretty good stories. 'You really ought to do a book.' And I'm like, 'How, like with Bob?' 'Okay.' And then the next thing that happened, I read a piece as I was considering that that said 81% of the population has thoughts of writing a book, but less than 3% actually do it. And so I thought to myself, I've never been top 3% in anything.. And that was again my numerical motivation. So the book is a compilation of 77 observations, stories. There's some ESPN that enters into it, stories about overcoming, stories about difficult situations, what I've seen people do, what I have done, and put together. It is like a memoir not only to my kids, but other people's kids, which is all of us. So in part of the foreword of the book, there used to be this sign at the Fort Worth Public Zoo said, for kids from 4 to 84. This book is for kids from 4 to 84. Any of us, all of us.

Mm. That sounds cool, Curt. So I only got one more question for you before we move on. Where can we find your book at? And where can we follow you on social media?

Well, there's the book, and that's my wife who did the COVID That's one of our grandkids there that she did kind of a blurry exposure. So that book is available on Amazon, and just go to Amazon, Thoughts for My Kids and Other People's Kids, Kirk McCarley. I've got a couple of websites, one for my writing which is KirkMcCarleyAuthor.com, and also for my business, which is KirkTheSeedSowerCoach.com. So two websites that are out there, but at Amazon it's easily purchased and it's soon going to be available in bookstores. I've just signed off the papers for that this past week. So hopefully that'll be distributed in bookstores and libraries before too much longer.

Man, congratulations on that, man. Thank you. Great success, you know, said in your book. So let me ask, I got two questions. For one, that's what your wife do? She does book covers? That's, that's her, that's her thing?

My wife is— well, it is. She's the talented one between the both of us. She has her own business. She is an interior designer, and her eye, CJ, is just tremendous. What she sees, what she visualizes, and her thoughts about what it's going to look like in the future. I'm amazed still. And that's kind of what keeps our relationship young and vibrant is new discoveries about each other all the time. I didn't realize— I just continue to be amazed at what she sees. And now she's married to an author.

So there you go. Hey, 45 years, man. I can imagine. Uh, so Let me ask you, Kirk, man, before we get out of here, what's up next for you, man? And what upcoming projects do you have? And what goals are you most excited about?

Well, I have got some more blogs that have come out. So maybe here in a couple of years, it'll be time to write volume 2 of this book. That's kind of a burning desire, but it's not ready yet. I need more stories. I'm working on an interesting project right now with coaching some individuals who are in the public library system, law library, university library for leadership development. I'm excited about that. There's a farmer that I have intersected with and coached him through the years. He's got a couple of individuals in the company that he's consulting with now that need some development, so I'm planning on working with them on that. Travel. We've now got all 50 states, so that was an achievement. So we expanded to Europe last summer. I don't know where we'll go next, but we'll figure something out. So that's an intrigue, a time of discovery, and again, expanding our territories. There's more cycling events to come up, so I'm looking forward to that. And wherever the Lord may take me, which I'm often surprised with, So we'll see what happens. He's put me in charge of a small group to lead in St. Louis. I've been doing that for several years now, and that's a real blessing for me. And again, I'm kind of like, Lord, you really want me leading a small group of people in the study of Jesus? And he said, hang in there, I'll equip you. All right.

Yeah, that's cool. That's the other thing you said something about a website about Seed Sower. What is that again?

That is my coaching business, and it's theseedsowercoach.com.

Okay, and the reason I asked you, because, well, today I just launched another podcast called Planting Seeds with CJ, and so that's why I asked you on that level. And, you know, because at the end of the day, uh, whether you're a book writer Uh, you know, people that sing. As you said, today is the 90th anniversary of Elvis Presley and things of that nature. We all plant seeds. We all plant seeds. At the end of the day, some of us may not have ever really realized that. I didn't think about that until I started that podcast. But it's just about what type of seeds you're planting, you know what I'm saying? Like, what type of seeds are you planting? And I see that God got you sowing good seeds, especially if he have put you over people to lead and guide them, man. So Kirk, man, again, man, I thank you for coming on the show, man, for joining us on the CJ Moneyway Show. And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to leave us a review, subscribe, and share it with someone who might need a little extra inspiration to follow their dreams. Until the next time, stay motivated, stay curious, and keep pushing forward As Kirk said earlier, no matter your age, this is CJ Moneyway signing off. We outta here. Peace.

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