In this conversational segment, Speaker A and Amy discuss the concept of personal rebirth and identity after experiencing trials, including incarceration. Speaker A emphasizes that past mistakes no longer define his true self, which is being reborn through divine calling. Amy expands on the idea that societal treatment often hinges on public records, but spiritually, every person is created in the image of the Creator—perfect, whole, and complete. She argues that true identity is not something to be changed externally but rather a return to an inherent essence that has always existed. The dialogue also touches on the metaphor of sowing and watering, highlighting that while individuals play a role, ultimate growth comes from God. Overall, the conversation frames identity as a divine, pre-existing wholeness that can be uncovered despite external circumstances.
That's, that, that, that's not my identity. Yes, I made some mistakes. Yes, I went through some things. Yes, I went through some trials and tribulations, and a lot of it was on my own doing. But when God called me out of that, that's no longer who I am because now my true identity is being birthed, you know. And that's a lot, and that's one thing that I believe, uh, Amy, that a lot of people don't want to see the rebirth.
Well, and, and I, I think that— let's take us back just a second though, is I'm in complete agreement with you, people don't want to see the rebirth. But if we take a step back for just a quick moment and we recognize that the only difference between someone who's been incarcerated and someone who hasn't is one person's public record is public, the other person's record is not public. And I'm not saying that, you know, people have gone out and murdered or stolen or whatever and gotten away with it, and that there's some comparable there. But what I'm saying is, is that we treat people differently based on their circumstances.
Yeah.
And for me, my job is to eliminate in my thought the fact that there could be a difference between you and me. Regardless of our circumstances. The Bible tells us, every scriptural text that you'll read out there, whether you're Christian or Hindu, Buddhist, you know, agnostic, like every spiritual text out there says that we were created in the image and likeness of our Creator. And so when we talk about a person's identity, what I'm recognizing, what I'm learning through my own experiences is that, look, we're not changing. We're simply becoming who we were created to be all along. We just lost our way. And the And there's an important distinction because to talk about someone needing to make a change versus someone really tapping into their true essence of who they've been all along is a change is something external that, that needs to be thrust upon us, that needs to be seen and demonstrated. If we're going back to our true identity of who we were created, perfect, whole, and complete. Every scriptural text out there tells us we were made in the image and likeness of our Creator, perfect, whole, and complete. So if we're going back to our, our origin, it's a whole lot easier to start from perfect, whole, and complete than it is to start from nowhere. And that reminder brings us back into that true essence that we have everything we need to be, to be the person we want to be. We just might need a good travel partner to help us uncover that. Figure that out.
Yeah, I totally, I totally agree with you. You know, uh, I like, like the words say that some sow and, and some water. And a lot of times you don't know if you the water or if you are the sower. And so as, as you're doing your part, is that it don't matter if I'm the water or the sower, because they say that, um, neither one of them is nothing because it's God who gives the increase. But As you're doing, I'm just doing my part.
Right, right. Well, and that brings that up, that idea of our purpose, our role in life. You know, that's oftentimes a really huge question for people, and it can be a crisis moment for many of us. This idea of what's my purpose, what's my goal, you know, my role in life. And for those of us with a church background, a spiritual background, that, that can sometimes feel really heavy. Because if we're working as an ambassador for God, or we're working as, you know, a foot soldier for the divine, that can feel really heavy. One of the things I'm learning is that foot soldier, you know, warrior, prayer— more, pick whatever word you want. If we go back to the word, if we go back to the Bible, The Bible tells us that we are called to witness. Witness. And let's think about that word witness for just a moment. Now, from a legal perspective, a witness is someone who's going to come up and they're going to testify. They're going to, under oath, share their perception, their recollection, their experience of one activity or another. If we now marry that physical activity with a metaphysical idea of witnessing A witness is someone who sees, who sees through, who is impacted by an activity or a behavior. Jesus witnessed God's love as he hung on the cross. God— Jesus witnessed the healing power of love at the Pool of Bethesda. And so our job as a witness is, um, I'm gonna marry two things here. I'm gonna marry the, the metaphysical and the practical. So the metaphysical, the spiritual idea says that we're to witness the good. Well, so often the question is, especially in the midst of— I mean, all anybody has to do is turn on the news.
