Redefining Ambition: Malumir Logan’s Story of Courage, Vision and Success

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Welcome to the CJ Moneyway Show podcast, the podcast show where we unlock potential one dream at a time. Today we have another guest whose journey is truly worth hearing. Sit back, relax, and enjoy the Moneyway experience.

What's up, my good people? Welcome to the CJ Moneyway Show. The podcast that brings you stories behind the success. Today we have on the show entrepreneur and author Malinière Logan. How you doing today, Malinière?

You know what, I'm glad to be able to be here. Having a rough medical day, but I'm glad to be here.

Yeah, I thank you for taking the time out today to come on the show today. So Malinière, tell us a little bit about yourself and about your background.

Yeah, absolutely. So My story is quite a winding one, I will say that. But, you know, I think the key pieces of my background that I care about a lot are the fact that I had a bit of a more challenging start to life, as many of us have had. But through it all, I have continued to seek answers, to try to find answers, to find a way to sometimes find another way around. And in my career, I have just always sought to find another way because I'm someone who's intersectional. And what I mean by that is that I am ambiguously racialized, so people never know what I am, but they can tell that I'm not white and I am a woman. And I also have multiple neurodivergence and currently am dealing with disability and, and I'm no stranger to these types of issues. And so Sometimes even though people may be well-meaning, in the backs of their minds, they kind of have these beliefs about what that means, what it means to work with someone like that. And so it's meant that I've encountered a number of challenges along the way. But as anyone else who is othered by these systems that we're in will know, sometimes we just have to find another way around. And so that's where I've come through. You know, I started out my career in full-time frontline customer service, working multiple jobs at a time to make ends meet because that's just what I had to do. And on the other side of 23 years at this time, you know, I've got a number of years of experience in leadership and strategy and operations. I'm an adjunct professor at a university. I'm published in terms of public sector innovation for a National Institute of Policy here in Canada, as well as I have a small business in the spiritual field. So that's a bit of a snapshot of me.

Okay. So Madeline, you mentioned that you're ambitiously radical. What do you mean by that? And how has it affected your career?

In terms of being racialized? Like, am I being ambiguously racialized?

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I mean, the reality is that I think often It does mean that, you know, sometimes anything that you say as someone who is other in some way is perceived as radical. So what do I mean by that? Let me back up. So by being ambiguously racialized, it means that I guess to back up further, we all grow up in society that is a bunch of systems and that's normal. We can't have chaos. It is totally normal to grow up in a society of systems. And the thing about systems is that when they get set up, they tend to be set up in the way that people who are setting them up think of as normal. And so particularly in North American context, for example, you know, the powers that be that set up systems back when they set them up were set up primarily by a particular group of people. And so even though these days, there are certainly more efforts to recognize that life isn't the same for all of us. The unfortunate thing is that sometimes a lot of people who have a lot of advantages that they don't realize they have kind of assume that everyone is having the same experience when we are not all having the same experience. We are not. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Oh yeah. Yeah.

And so all of us have advantages and disadvantages. It's just it tends to be that for those of us who, and it depends often in which system we're in at the time, and in a system of, let's say, society or employment, for example, which are major, major systems we all kind of have to be part of, that can frequently mean that people who are othered end up experiencing negative impacts, right? So whether it's overt discrimination or people just don't realize that they are perceiving people in a certain way. So for example, what is very typical of people of different backgrounds from different areas of the world, particularly for women, if we say something, even if we're saying it in a positive way, but if we say something, if we're flagging an issue, it's perceived as being more negative than if, say, you know, a woman who is, say, white and blonde said it. It's perceived in a very negative way. And so sometimes, and so coming back to the comment on radical, this is why actually, it may be sometimes that, you know, something that I say may be perceived as radical, when actually, I'm just stating a thing that may not even be perceived, they may not actually be that radical, but because it's coming out of my mouth, instead of, you know, say someone else who's had more systemic supports around them, and fewer underlying challenging assumptions, it can be perceived that way.

Yeah, I get what you said. Sometimes it's like you're a little more aggressive with how you may say something, opposed to somebody may be more aggressive than you, the way that they presented it. But because of how the identity or how people identify certain people, that, you know, it's perceived that way. So I truly understand what you're saying. So Ms. Logan, tell us about some of the challenges that you faced growing up.

Yeah, absolutely. So first of all, I did grow up in an abusive family, unfortunately. And, you know, financially things were also very tight, which didn't help any situation. So that was a very difficult environment to grow up in because I literally grew up being, you know, having it beaten into me that I was stupid. And so, you know, and kids, you know, the way that neurologically humans are set up is that as infants, as young children, we absorb, we just absorb everything like a sponge. And that's learning. And that's good. And that's the way it's supposed to work. The problem is that if you're a young child in an environment that is unsafe, that does not actually have the supports and the nurturing that you need, you don't know any different, you don't actually realize that this is not how it's supposed to be. So what that led to, as I got into adulthood and started actually realizing, having the aha moment of, oh my goodness, that was— I had an abusive upbringing. Like the moment that I had that realization, it was actually so freeing for me. Because then, you know, it meant, oh, well, I can do something with this now. Because the important takeaway for me on all of that is that, you know what, We all go through things that we had no control over, right? So I believe that, yes, we have personal agency. Like, yes, we always have a little bit more control in situations than we may think we do, but we can't control external factors. We cannot control how other people think and behave toward us. What can we control? How we respond. And so, you know, for me, the reason that it was such an important moment was that, you know what, now I'm aware of what I've been through. This now empowers me because now I can do something about it. Now I can go seek counseling. Now I can actually name it. Like sometimes just being able to name the thing that you're dealing with actually is so empowering. For example, being able to recognize, oh, this was like racism that I encountered, or this was sexism, actually realizing, being able to name the thing that you've gone through, in a way, it just allows you to realize, wait a second, this wasn't actually about me. You know, I may have been on the receiving end of it. And I still have to be the one to work on cleaning some of that up. But it wasn't actually about me. So that was definitely a key moment and a key takeaway for me.

So when you say abuse, and I just want to get the point across, because the way that it was back in, you know, in our time, and then the way that it is now is perceived differently. Growing up, I took a lot of butt whoopings. Even in today's time, they would call that abuse. Like, "Oh, you're not supposed to whoop your child or do these type of things to your children," or whatnot. Things that I endured coming up, you would go to jail for that now. I just wanted to clarify that abuse that you said that you endured, it was you know, different than just a butt whooping? It was something more physical, or are we talking on that level?

So what I will say is that given the legal framework at the time, it was not legal. It was not legal.

Yeah.

And beyond that, you know, and I mean, even, you know, what you went through growing up, that was still, frankly, was still wrong, even though at the time it was totally legal. And that was, you know, just part of you know, what is it, spare the rod, something the child, something like that. So, you know, but this was absolutely and completely beyond that in a variety of ways, which I won't go into. But it was very much illegal, and it was ongoing, and it was continuous. And despite my repeated attempts to get help, no one ever wants to get involved with these things, which also, by the way, is illegal. Because there is legislation also in place now that, you know, if a minor tells you that they are being abused that you are illegally obliged to get help for them.

Mm, yeah, that's a good point. I was talking to somebody once before, and they were talking about things of this nature on how, you know, the child is the victim, but then you make it seem like that they're the ones that has caused the problem with what others are doing to them. And so it's just like in America, You blame the people that's being victimized and then expecting things to change within the system or within that person, and it can't because the people that need to be fixed are the ones that's doing the abuse. If they never change, then how could you expect the situation to change? I get what you're saying on that one. Tell us about your experience as a— is it a Reiki master?

Yeah, Reiki master. Yeah.

And how did you get started and what impact and what difference has it made in your life?

Yeah, absolutely. So it's funny because sometimes when people know of my academic and professional background, they're surprised to hear that I'm into spiritual stuff and I'm into, you know, energy. But I absolutely love it. And, you know, I actually think that it's really important for all of us to do and engage with more than just our jobs, than just our thing that we do to make money, because we're not just here to make money. And listen, as someone who's lived below the poverty line as an adult, who's had to work all the jobs, all the hours, I get it. And it's still so important to find some way of engaging with the other parts of ourselves that are not just about making money. And so for me, that's always been spirituality, always has been spirituality. The way that I specifically came to Reiki. So Reiki is a particular style of energy work. And it has a lineage, kind of like with martial arts or karate, for example, there's a lineage of, you know, this person teaches that person teaches that person. It's the same thing with Reiki. Reiki started in Japan, I believe, and then was brought over to North America by someone whose lineage they had learned from the original Reiki master. And so I am a Reiki master, which it takes time to and a lot of training to work up to. But the reason that I came to it was years ago. So I'm a cat mom, I have some cats. And, you know, my husband and I, we love our cats. And one of our cats became suddenly very ill and passed away. But she had a sister, and we were so, so worried about the sister that, oh my goodness, like, how is you know, she's never known life without her sister, what's she going to do? And so I really wanted a way of offering her some peace and comfort and just, you know, other than just giving her lots of hugs. And so I actually, you know, came upon Reiki as a really gentle, beautiful way of offering that comfort to her. And then she loved it. And then she demanded it every day, like she would sit there and meow at me repeatedly, very loudly until I gave her the Reiki. And then she would happily trot off and go have a nap. But that's actually how I originally came to Reiki was because of wanting to comfort my poor little cat.

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So the cat got you into a whole nother atmosphere and environment. Yeah, that's pretty cool. So, so, Malamie, tell us, what is your approach to mentoring young or new professionals?

Absolutely. Something I'm deeply passionate about. I've worked with young people for two decades now, both in volunteer capacities as well as professional capacities, and Every year, I mentor dozens of new professionals, both informally and formally. And what is really important to me, like the cornerstone of that mentorship, is a listening to them, like listening to the situations that they're bringing, and not sugarcoating the realities that they are facing, because usually, when folks are seeking out guidance, it's because they're going through something difficult. They're encountering a difficult situation in the workplace that they don't know how to resolve, right? Typically, no one is seeking mentoring when everything is hunky-dory, right? And everything is great. They're finding help because they're going through something hard and they don't know how to navigate it. And just this week, I was chatting with a student who was going through something. And I said, listen, you know, and again, you know, I'm compassionate with how I communicate, but I will be forthcoming because you need to— again, it's better to know what you're dealing with than for me to, you know, be really vague and high level and not give you anything to work with. Because someone was facing a very difficult situation. I said, here's the thing, the good news about all this, because we talked about all of the difficulty and kind of how to navigate it. But I said, here's the good news. The good news is that on the grand scheme of your career. And I said, and I say this, you know, standing on this end of 23 years of experience. So I recognize it may be easier for me to say than for, you know, than for it to feel like it's real yet for you. But I said, the good news is that this situation is not actually going to affect your career. It seems like it's really big right now. And it seems like it could have a big impact. But, you know, I said, and then I won't get into the details, but, you know, due to these particular contextual factors, you actually have a lot You have a lot of support in this situation. And it's how you navigate this and how you decide to move forward that is going to be important. But this is not actually going to affect your career. This is not, this is not something that's happening 15 years from now, right, with a different context. And so, my approach is, I want to listen because I want to make sure I really understand their situation. I ask questions because I'm trying to, I'm trying to figure out the context that they're actually dealing with. And then I'm very honest. But I will also say that I am recognizing also the relative privilege that is involved in their situation at all times. And what do I mean by that? What I mean is that sometimes people come to me very confused because they have received advice from other people who have given very well-meaning advice. But sometimes the advice that people, you know, that other leaders give comes from a place of unrealized advantage. And I know this from my own experience. So let's say, you know, 15 years ago when I was, you know, I was in the earlier days of my career, I was trying to sort some things out and I just couldn't understand why the advice that very well-meaning people gave me, why it wasn't working. Like, why is this not working? I'm doing everything they've said. And I would go back and I would ask them. They're like, oh, that's really strange. I mean, it worked for me. You know what? Just keep going, you know, keep doing it, you're doing all the right things. And at the end of the day, those were not the things that ended up working for me. I had to find other ways. And it took me a lot of years to figure them out because I had to figure them out myself because I didn't have a me to, to, you know, provide that, you know, that transparency. But sometimes very well-meaning people are giving advice from a place of unacknowledged or unrealized advantage. That just won't work for someone who doesn't have those same advantages. And so that is another thing that I bring is all of my lived experience as someone who is intersectional. And I recognize I also have a lot of advantages and I recognize those. And also I'm very tuned in to paying attention to where my lived experience may be different from others. And so bringing that to these conversations means that people actually have the information that they need. Right? I'm not going to sugarcoat things to people and say, "Oh yeah, just work hard. And, you know, if you work hard, it's all going to turn out well." It's not all about working hard because unfortunately, in the majority of organizations, they're not actually pure meritocracies. They may all want to be. They may genuinely believe they are and want to be. But that's just unfortunately not how, you know, how systems are set up. So, I have these very real conversations with newer professionals. And from what I've received in terms of feedback, people found it very, very helpful in helping them find their way to navigate through these difficulties.

You said something earlier, and I just want to go back to that real quick. Because as I told you, I talked to somebody, Josh Flowers, he's from Ontario, Canada, to just talk to him yesterday. And one thing I told him too, is that it's a great thing that people had that have been through things in life Like you said, various jobs. I can attest to that. I worked at Walmart while I was an adult making $9 per hour in the produce department, you know. But to have the fortitude to not only go through what you go through or have endured, but to be able to have a heart for service, to serve other people, to want to see other people do better, to see other people reach their goals and reach their heights. And so It's tremendous, and it's a good thing that we still have people like yourself, like Josh, and others that has that mentality. Regardless of what I've been through, I made it through some storms. I want to take my experiences and help some other young people navigate through life. And maybe, sometimes they listen, sometimes they don't. It's just like us as kids. And hopefully they'll take some of the advice that I give them, and they can miss some of the pitfalls that I went in. And so it's cool that you guys are doing things like this, and it's very encouraging. It really, really is. So, Malimir, what advice do you have for aspiring or current leaders?

For aspiring and current leaders, I would say— I may have many, many thoughts, but if I have to sum up some of the key pieces, the first is that I see leadership actually as stewardship. Because if you're in a formal leadership position, you do have power. And a lot of people think that power is a dirty word. Power is actually neutral. It's neither good nor bad. It is neutral. And it's how you use it that makes it good or bad and produces positive or negative outcomes. And when you are in a formal leadership position, it doesn't matter even if you think, oh, but I don't have any power, but you do. Because if you're in formal leadership, it means that you have people who are reporting to you, or you're responsible for something, and you have disproportionate impact on them. What do I mean by that? I mean that you may just be one person as a leader, but if you are in a leadership position, you're having the impact of more than one person, right? And, you know, I mean, we, like, we can all think about it, you know, we can think about the time we've had a good boss and the difference in our lives that made, like, in our whole lives because we had a good boss. And we can also, I'm sure, also think about times we've had a bad boss and the negative impact that had in our whole lives, right? So think about it, that was just one person, but they had an effect of way more than one person. And so, when someone is an aspiring leader, or if you are in a leadership position, it is crucial to recognize that you have stewardship of how you're using that power. And if you are using it well and wisely, and you're using it, you know, in a best effort to be responsible with it and to be ethical with it, that's great. But also remember that not making a decision or failing to make a decision is actually a decision. So what do I mean by that? If you think, oh no, it's fine, you know, whatever, I'm just going about my day, I'm just doing my thing, whatever, and you're not actually trying to be an ethical leader, you're actually making a decision that is negative. Because if you're not actively trying to be an ethical high-quality leader, then you're actually going to be having a negative impact because it takes intention in order to be ethical, right? Given all the systems and all the other issues that we've talked about today, even if you are not trying to do anything negative, because we all work in organizations that have, you know, these unintentional structures and systems that unintentionally may be damaging people. If you're not actively trying to be ethical within that, All those things are going to negatively affect people, and you're actually going to end up being unethical as a leader. So, that's the other piece is be a really wise steward of whatever power you have, even if it only feels like a little bit, because if you are intentionally doing that, that's great. But be very mindful of the fact that not making a decision or failing to make a decision is still a decision, and you're still having influence and impact, even if you're not trying to.

That's deep right there. That's heavy. So, Malimere, I appreciate you coming on the show today. I just got one more question for you and then we call it a wrap. Finally, what advice do you have for people who are facing a new disability or chronic illness?

Oh yeah. And as someone who has been dealing with a very recent— the most recent of the issues I've been dealing with has been just over a year. And for context, I'm someone who previously I was passable as able-bodied in that you would look at me and I would look able-bodied. You know, I was running marathons and I was hiking up mountains and I was kayaking and canoeing and walking and doing yoga and heavy weightlifting. You know, I used to squat 255 and deadlift, you know, close to 300. And now I feel like I'm actually about to fall over. Like, as soon as we're done here, I'm going to have to go lie down for the rest of the day. And I can't walk for more than 60 seconds and I can't do it without a cane. And I have very severe dizziness. There are most days I can't read even. And it's, you know, such a big difference. And so for people who are going through something new, just based on my own lived experience, the advice I would have is— and some of it may be painful— which is when you go through something new, after a little while, there will be loved ones and friends who you really thought that you had amazing relationships and friendships with, but some people will not be up for it. And it's, you know, even if it's not, even if it's not, you know, ill-intentioned, it's the inherent ableism that we have in society. And so even if they're not aware of it, there will be people who will be uncomfortable, who will fall out of your life. The advice is let them go. As much as that it's painful, let yourself grieve, allow yourself to grieve, but let them go. Okay? Because you're making space for other people who will be there. Also, there are online communities, there are lots of online communities, and whether it's in an area of interest, like if you have, you know, a hobby or something that you're interested in, find an online community on it and create new friendships that way. And also remain as much as you can, look for something every day that is a good thing. Okay. Because mindset is going to be so, so important. And this isn't about pretending that, you know, oh, everything is wonderful and amazing. It's both, right? Both acknowledge the difficulty that you're going through while also still looking for the good, because there is still good in your life. Look for one good thing. Every day and just make a little note of it. I have a list going on on my phone that every day I'm writing down one thing that I'm grateful for, for that day, even if it's something small, even if the tiniest thing that day was, you know, I really enjoyed that cup of tea that I was able to have and I was able to sit up while having it. Great. Write it down. Or maybe it's a bigger thing, but look for something good. So again, let go of the people who are just not going to be able to be there with you through it and find new communities. And then look for something every day for which you are grateful or that is a good thing.

Mm.

I mean, I totally agree with you on letting people go. Whether it's illness or things that you're pursuing in life, people will fall off from you. And like you said, people who you thought and you loved and cherished that you thought would be there, they tend to be far away from you when you going through some things. So, I truly agree with you on that one. So, Malamarie, is there anything else that you would like to share with us? Any endeavors that you have on the horizons that we can look forward to? And where can we follow you at on social media?

Absolutely. So, on social media, you can look me up on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn and I post whenever I'm able. And these days, it's— I post much less frequently than I used to, just because it is challenging for me these days. But when I'm able, I am posting on all the topics related to career and leadership and navigating those kinds of systemic realities. I talk a lot about that on LinkedIn. But I also have my website acornandburdock.ca. I have a blog with literally hundreds and hundreds of posts on empowerment and self-healing and spiritual development, as well as career and leadership things. And then people can check out all the, you know, the tarot-related stuff I have up there as well. Those are the two best ways. Also, thank you so much for having me. And, you know, to everyone who's going through something difficult out there, know that you have so many more internal resources and abilities and strengths than you may have realized, and you have all of them, and they are coming up for you. And notice them and keep looking for the good because it is there, and things will get better. They will.

Ah, there you have heard it from Maliki Logan that it's for the better. It's not over. Things can get better regardless of what you're going through. You have been listening to the CJ Moneyway Show with your host CJ Moneyway. Aye, we outta here. Peace.

Thank you for listening to the CJ Moneyway Show. Don't forget to share this episode with your friends, leave a comment, and drop a review. Be sure to tune in every Tuesday and Friday for more inspiring journeys. Who knows? Your story might be next.

You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. Stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other job sites. With Indeed Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates, so you can reach the people you want faster. According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non-sponsored jobs. Don't wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com/kidsandfamily. Just go to indeed.com/kidsandfamily right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring? Indeed is all you need.