“The Journey of Laughter and Storytelling with David Hern”

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Welcome to the CJ Moneyway Show podcast, the podcast show where we unlock potential one dream at a time. Today we have another guest whose journey is truly worth hearing. Sit back, relax, and enjoy the Moneyway experience.

What's up, my good people? Welcome to the CJ Moneyway Show. Today I have a guest raining from New York and now residing in Oakland, California. He's an actor, comedian, writer, author, David Hearn. Hey man, how you doing today?

How you doing, CJ? And thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to this. Thank you.

Oh man, I appreciate you coming on, man, taking time out of your busy schedule to come on the CJ Moneyway Show, man. I really appreciate it.

Pleasure, man.

So, uh, Dave, tell us a little bit about yourself, man, about your background.

Well, I was born in New York City and Mount Sinai Hospital right there in Manhattan.

Mm.

And a little part of my childhood there. And then the family moved up to Northern California when I was still a kid. My father was an actor, stand-up comedian, writer, entertainer. So I couldn't help but be influenced by growing up in a household like that. My father had been— yeah, he had played clubs in New York City, stand-up joints, adult entertainment camps in the Catskills during the summer. He was your typical Jewish stand-up, one-line. That was back in the vaudeville-type days. One-line shots coming at you with the drummer's rimshot. So that was his school of comedy. In fact, I have an old scratchy recording of him on the Robert Q. Lewis radio show, like 1950, doing his stand-up gig. It's kind of interesting to listen to it now.

Uh-huh.

So as far as when I got into acting, There is no when. I knew I was an actor. Well, my joke is I was doing it prenatally. No, you know, I had to show up first. So yeah, I was in my first show when I was 5. And I remember even as a kid feeling like, oh, okay, this is— this fits. You know, I can go with this. Yeah, I felt so comfortable, uh, being on stage that it really was a— just a realization more than a decision or a choice. Just, okay, this is it, this is the way I gotta go, you know?

Uh-huh. So speaking of when you started acting at the age of 5, they say that you did a stage play and that you was the ringmaster of the circus. So can you give us any memories of that time? I know it was a long time ago, but can you give us—

I mean, I'm a kid, you know, I'm a little kid, but yet I had the top hat and the tails and the cane and the ringmaster stuff, you know, the whole deal. And, uh, but I just remember, well, you know, when I was a kid, Ed Sullivan was still happening. Uh-huh. So I kind of took after Ed Sullivan, kind of like I'm the guy who's gotta keep the show rolling, you know?

Yeah.

Da da da da da da. Here's the next act, et cetera, et cetera. But I just remember, yeah, it was a skin that felt real comfortable. And that's kind of how it always was. I was in a play every year I was a kid in school, all through high school, all through college, in the community. I did a lot of stage as a young person. Person. And then I went to Hollywood. That's why I wrote this here book, How Not to Make It in Hollywood. Something every actor should know, how not to make it. Available now on Amazon Books. That actually is my story there in the book. And but I tried to make it and write it in a way that would make it very accessible to anybody. And more than anything, I'm an entertainer. So I hope the book is entertaining. So far, the reaction appears to be pretty good. Okay, I welcome people to enjoy the book.

Okay, so Dave, tell us about some of the stage productions that you have appeared in.

I've been very fortunate. That's one area of my life where I think I've been incredibly lucky. For a while in the 2000s, I was affiliated with a theater company called Playhouse West in Walnut Creek, California, which was run by a woman who came from Broadway. It's a Broadway-caliber theater company, and I got to play some roles that I'd always dreamed of playing, like the character of George in the play Same Time Next Year. Alan Alda played that role in the movie. And I had always said, that's one I'd always wanted to do. Got to do it. One of my favorite plays was a play called The Goodbye People by Herb Gardner. Got to do that one too. A lot of theater dreams, you know, came true. I got to do lead roles in some superb scripts. Oh, another favorite was a play called Only Kidding by Jim Gagin, who's just a fantastic writer. Only Kidding is a story about stand-up comics, stand-up comedians, and how absolutely vicious they are behind the comedy. It's a story about kind of the backstage story about stand-up comedy. That was a terrific show. You know, I'm actually shocked that that hasn't been made into a movie by this point. Only kidding. It's a brilliant show. I performed in a production of Dracula once.

Wow.

With special effects and stuff. You know, all kinds of evil-looking things about. And some other really great comedies. I was in a show called The Love List, which was almost a slapstick that almost hails back to my father's era of comedy, which I'm on, you know, my father's no longer with us. So I, I kind of always feel a showbiz connection with my late old man whenever I get particularly comedy. Yeah, I don't get me wrong. I love drama too. I love working, period. But comedy honestly seems to come out of me no matter what I do.

I mean, yeah, you know, when you're making people laugh and, you know, people enjoying the show, it always makes you feel good, especially if that's— it seems like that's just the type of person that you are, you know, fun-loving, like to have fun, like to make people laugh, and, you know, so, so yeah. And then it's always cool to have a connection with something that you know, your father did that you can relate to. And you know, you can sit back and be like, man, if my father, if he could see me now, he'd be proud of me.

He's kinda riding on my shoulder a little bit.

Yeah, yeah. So, so yeah, okay, Dave, you told us about some of the production plays that you've been in. Can you tell us about some of the film productions that you've been in as well? Like "B Season" and "Twisted" and this new film that you got coming out.

Right, the new one that's coming out is called Thirsty. It stars Kyra Sedgwick and Jamie Newman, who's kind of an up-and-coming actress. And I got a nice little character part in it that I'm right at the beginning of the movie. I'm her, her boss at the public defender's office, a little bit of bureaucratic type character, basically a good guy. You know, so it was fun for me because when you get to do a real person, that's always really exciting to bring yourself to it and keep it natural. And I'm pleased with it. I'm pleased with it. Looks good.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. Like you say, you know, you went to the premiere. I can't wait for it to come out, man, and check it out.

Yeah. They're going to be showing the film at the film festival circuit this year. So they're going to Tribeca and Sundances too, and all those, you know, film festival places where distributors go and decide what they're gonna snatch up.

So let me ask you, Dave, so like you say, the Sundance Festival and things of that nature. So when a film gets out there like that, and you're in it, is it like the red carpet event? You know, do you guys go to these events to see how the crowd is?

And I'm kind of not quite above— there's like what they call above the line. And there's like the stars of the movie. My character in the movie is sort of like just one tier below. I don't quite qualify as a star of the movie.

Okay.

I am a player in the movie.

Okay.

So I would probably not be invited to a big, you know, CLEAGUE-like festival. But I'm sure that's coming one of these days. I'm still here.

Hey, like you said earlier, it's always good to work. As long as you getting work out there, doing what you doing and enjoying what you doing, that's the most important thing. So tell me about this one, Dave, 'cause I know this one had to be fun and interesting. Tell us about filming and being in the production of "Freddy's Nightmare." Oh, that was fabulous.

Oh man, that was great. Well, first of all, I had been grinding away and grinding, hammering away at it in LA. I had a lot of difficulty getting a hold of an agent. It was tough. It was real tough. So suddenly, you know, finally something broke through and I was kind of the co-star of one episode. So the actor that they paired me off with was a guy named Phil Proctor. I didn't put it together, but Phil Proctor used to be a member of the Firesign Theater, who were a record— like, on-record comedy troupe that I grew up on. I had their records in my collection, and I didn't know this. So I had already worked the whole day with this guy that I just knew as Phil, and we got into the groove immediately, you know. Which is fortunate. That doesn't always happen. But when you get cast in something opposite other actors that are really there for you, we clicked immediately. And then I think it was the second day at lunch or something, he was talking about Firesign Theatre, and then I realized, oh my God, that's Michael Proctor. So then I told him about my fandom and all that stuff. But it was fun on a number of levels. One, I got to play opposite Bill. I got to play, you know, a real kind of a serious psychiatrist guy who has a moral, you know, core, what's right and wrong. And also I got to meet, what's his name? I'm sorry. Oh, God, how embarrassing. Freddy Krueger. Robert Englund.

Okay.

Who plays Freddy Krueger. Because he was in every episode too.

Yeah.

And the producers were super nice. And it was, yeah, I remember it very fondly. Good director who worked really well with everybody. And yeah, I'm kind of glad to have a little tiny piece of that, you know, that I can call mine. Because yeah, it's not around anymore.

I mean, yeah, I mean, I had to ask you that one, man, because I thought that was interesting because A lot of us, so many of us can relate to Freddy Krueger. You know, everybody know who Freddy was. That was the Friday the 13th movie. They, they was bringing one out every, every year. So if you don't know who Freddy Krueger is, you know, yeah. So I know that was pretty cool. I know that one was pretty cool. So Dave, tell us a little bit about your mentors, man, and that you studied under, and what was some of the valuable insights that, you know, they passed on to you?

Thank you for that question. Because I— that's another area where I feel very blessed and fortunate. I've had many really good coaches. In fact, I got to study with Alan Garfield, who was a bit of a hero of mine. I don't know if you are familiar with him, but he had tons of roles during the '70s and '80s. Kind of a portly character guy. If you saw his face, you'd know him immediately.

Okay.

Oh, that guy. He worked a lot. And being a character actor guy, those are the guys I'm usually noticing. Oh, that guy's interesting. I'd like to get that kind of thing. So one day on one of my day jobs, I'm scrambling to some office building delivering something, and Alan Garfield walks in the elevator. And I said, "Alan Garfield!" I'm Dave Herron, big fan, blah, blah, blah. Luckily, it was a nice long trip down in the elevator. And by the end of our elevator trip, he invited me to study with his scene study group. And I was thrilled. So I studied with Alan Garfield's group for 4 years almost. I mean, not only was he a fine actor himself, But he knew, in a very subtle way, exactly how to help every different kind of actor along. I think that's a real skill. I don't have it. I like to be directed. But he just had infinite patience and would just work as long as it took to help an actor get where they need to go. So, the best lessons that I learned from guys like Garfield were to sort of— Elevate it, elevate it, work a little harder. Just try to make it just a little bit better all the time. Set the bar a little bit higher. And that's exciting. That's one of the things I actually love about working in film, is the sort of danger of it. Because, you know, when you go take, you're either going to be great Or you're going to stink forever.

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You better be good. But say, Rob, the backup from the tape, you know, when it's in the can. But I like that. I like that, that element of danger forces you to work harder. And so that's kind of what I took both from my father this sort of work ethic, and these great coaches that I had. One of my other good coaches was a guy named Bruce Glover, who you're probably also familiar with. His son Crispin Glover played Michael J. Fox's father in Back to the Future. And Bruce was one of the Bond villain guys in, I think it was Diamonds Are Forever, He got blown up at the end. In fact, Bruce, I think he has a record for getting blown up the most times in a movie. Yeah, right.

Well, I know what you talk about there. You say Back to the Future. I know who he was, uh, the father. Yeah, yeah, that's an old movie though. Another classic though. That was another classic.

And my father is in When Harry Met Sally, which is another semi-classic.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I know. I've never— I know what you're talking about. I can't remember it. Like, you know, I know something verbatim.

That was the only hit that he was ever, ever in. He did lots of stuff, lots of TV, lots of stage. Yeah, I'm a little nervous, you know, whenever a brand new movie that I've done is coming out because it's already in the can, but it feels inside almost like a Broadway premiere kind of. There's nothing I can do but I get insane butterflies.

Oh man, you went and seen it yesterday, so I'm pretty sure you're kind of comfortable with it now. You know you didn't can.

Yeah, well, now that I've seen it, you know, now that I've seen it, I'm okay.

You feel a lot more comfortable.

I feel pretty good.

Yeah.

Oh.

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So Dave, tell us, what inspired you to begin to start writing plays and films?

Good question. I wrote my first screenplay when I was on tour with a touring children's theater company.

That I was—

it was a paid gig. So I was on the road for a while. So I had to kind of do something when we weren't on stage. And I have always been kind of having a writer's instinct inside. So I crafted my first screenplay while on the road with that children's theater company. You know, looking back on it now, when I read it now, it's kind of amateurish. You know, it's my first screenplay. But it got the juice going. And I've written tons of stuff since then. I have a shelf with— I got 3 screenplays, no, 2 screenplays, 3 stageplays. And of course, the draft of How Not to Make It in Hollywood.

Oh, go make that a play too, huh?

I don't know. We'll see what happens with the book. You know, somebody wants me to adapt it into a screenplay. I'd be happy to do that for some tea.

That's pretty cool, man. You got things in the archives that you're ready to go with now. So let me ask you a question, and this is not something I was going to ask. So with you writing plays and being a playwright, like when somebody gives you a, you know, like if somebody come to you and say, hey, I have something that I've written, I don't know how to put it together, Do you do things like that, like consulting, or, you know, do you write for other folks? Not really.

I kind of— my process is too much in my head. It's too hard to communicate. Well, you know, like I said, like even with acting, teaching, like Garfield was, you know, that's a skill in itself. So I think maybe teaching writing, it's different than writing. Writing, it's almost like you go into cocoon, kind of.

Mm-hmm.

Sort of a focus there. So that doesn't mean I haven't written with other people. I have. But no, I don't think I could kind of quite tell anybody what to do. Because I'm usually figuring out what I'm doing. I get it.

I get it. I get it. I understand what you said. So you've been talking about this book, Dave. Let's get to it, man. Tell us about How to Not Make It in Hollywood.

Well, it took me a while to find what voice I was going to write this book in. Initially, I thought maybe I was writing another screenplay or a stage play. I was taking notes and I was writing some stuff and it just— I wasn't sure of what it was. Luckily, I'm with a writers group now. Online writers group called Prolific Writers Life. And they helped me connecting with some other writers, just in a general sense. Nobody's saying do this or don't do that, just the general support, because everybody's trying to do the same thing, get words on paper. Well, they helped me undo the block. They helped me figure out what voice I was writing the book in. And once that happened, boom, it just— I went gangbusters on it. And I was writing pretty steadily for over a year on it. And I'm very happy with it. By the time I let the manuscript go, I was pretty confident in it. Yeah, good feeling.

There was some of the secrets, man, that you gave about how not to make it in Hollywood.

If you had one thing— Oh, secrets.

One thing to tell any aspiring actor or actress that's thinking about going to LA, going to Hollywood, and making it in show business? What's one thing that you would tell them? One piece of advice?

I'll tell you what I can do. I can read you a small little snippet, okay, out of the book. I have the book broken up into categories, okay? Agents, unions, cars, studios, you know, acting, writing. I break it down, you know, by subject matter. Okay, so this is the beginning of the chapter on unions. The other major requirement for any kind of career is membership in the Screen Actors Guild. There used to be a separate union called the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. The two unions merged in 2012 to form SAG-AFTRA, which is now the only major actors union for the entire film industry. You must be a member of the union in order to work. How do you get in the union? Take a guess. You can't. You only get in the union if you've already worked professionally.

Got it?

You're not allowed to work without a union card, and you can't get a union card unless you've already worked. Translation: you can't get in the union, pal, unless you're lucky. Let's just say that out loud, okay? Lucky.

Lucky.

Unless there's a freak accident. That's all I'm gonna give away right now. For the rest, you gotta get the book. Yeah. That's just one of my sort of chapter beginnings, you know, I try to get some blunt truths across in this book. Because, look, I fell for all kinds of stupid stuff. I'm trying to leave a cautionary tale behind. That's why I call it How Not to. Don't do some of the stuff that I did. Here's why not, you know, here's how to avoid some of this. Hopefully I can save some actors a few bucks too and some gas money.

Yeah, yeah. And I'm glad that you putting something out there like that because not only in acting but just in life, period, when somebody have experienced something, went down that road, and you know how it is, especially dealing with a lot of younger people, you trying to tell them and they don't want to listen. You're like, look, I'm telling you now, it's a pitfall down there because I've been around that corner a few times. And they know more than you, and they go hit that pin.

And you know what? I was there. I heard that and I didn't listen, you know what I mean? Yeah, down there anyway.

Yeah, we, we've all done that. We've all done that. So, uh, with that part, which is kind of hard to imagine, you know, just what you reading that excerpt, you got to have a card, you got to be able to work professionally before you can get a card, and you can't get a card unless you work professionally.

But need an accident. Yeah, fortunate happenstance. Now, how it happened with me was I auditioned for a low-budget non-union movie. The only way I could get up on it is because it was advertised in Dramalog, which is sort of the rinky-dink level of showbiz jobs, you know, because anybody can go audition for that So anyway, I auditioned for this low-budget flick, and the director liked me and hired me on the spot. So the scene that I was involved with shot a couple of days. So boom, get the job, do the job, it's done, whatever, go on with life. Then I find out that after I worked on the movie, the movie itself signed an agreement with SAG.

Mm.

So the union was forced after the fact to admit me because my stuff was already in the can that was going to be used in the movie. So with a Taft-Hartley agreement, I get transferred into the union. But had it not just been for that series of events that I had nothing to do with, I could have easily Never got in the union.

Wow. Wow. Happenstance, like you said. So on top of that, Dave, then tell us that, how do actors get parts in movies?

Okay, well, you do need an agent and you need a union card, both of which you can't get unless they come your way. You know, that's what happens. In fact, my answer to the question of how do you get an agent is, you don't. An agent gets you. It's like a legal catch-22. They have to decide to represent you. So when you don't have an agent, you're forced into this stupid business of trying to convince people that they can make money off of you somehow. And I admit, in the book, I was never very good at that. I would have gone in, I would have been in advertising or in agenting or management or something if I was good at that. I'm a writer, I'm an actor, that's it. That's why you need an agent to handle that stuff so you can stick with the work. So you need those things. But I guess if I had to give any advice, it would be don't be deterred on the way. I wasn't. I mean, I only got turned down more times than I could even remember. But you can't— oh, and whatever you do, don't think it's because of you. I mean, particularly when it comes to casting, some you're gonna get, some you're not gonna get. And a lot of times the reasons you might not even be privy to— they could be looking for something that you don't know about. So I would kind of just say, you know, you know, put your best foot forward, give it your best turn each time, and then forget it. Move on to the next thing. Hone your craft. Get good at it. Get good at it. Get some good coaches. Study some scene work. Work hard. Get better. There's always a way to get better. You always do. I look at some performances I did a long time ago, you're taking yourself too seriously, buddy. You know, I see something new. Yeah, you grow. So, you know, everybody does their stint in Hollywood. I did my time. I did my Hollywood journey. You know, with me getting the hell out of there was probably the best thing I did for my career. Yeah, all these movies, jobs I got up here, all the great stage roles I got up here. And all I did kind of, you know, in Hollywood was the workaday grind and the nonstop hustle. And I can't do that. I'm not really a hustler. Yeah. You know, I need a good hustler to act on my behalf.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I know. I know exactly what you mean. And so I was gonna ask you a question, but you had already answered that one. It was one, one question that you had. How do you get into the Screen Actors Guild? But you told us already, you know.

So here's the other way. Here's the other way. By some miraculous circumstance, you're offered a role ahead of time. Like if some producers or writers decide that they want you for a role and then they find out you're not in the Screen Actors Guild, well, that will all be taken care of real quick. Isn't that amazing? Some people spend their entire lives, moi, hustling away at it. Took me 9 years. And some never get in. Mm-hmm.

You know what? That's something new. And I don't know how many of my listeners knew that, but that's something new to me. I did not know that. I didn't know that you couldn't get into a union or whatever unless you had a card, or you couldn't act unless you had a card. So that sounds like an everyday grind and an everyday hustle, you know, trying to—

until some fat cat is sort of handling you.

Yeah.

Um, oh, here's a little anecdote for you. One day during the hustle, trying to get an agent, I stumbled into kind of a boutique management office of— I'll just say the manager of a major Hollywood star.

Hmm.

Now, and pictures of the person all over the wall. It was clear that this was a very exclusive, high-level management plays. And I remember I just, I talked to the guy, he was kind of a loud Jewish guy from New York, just the kind of guy I should be able to relate to. We actually talked a little bit about New York. And he sort of humored me a little bit and sort of sent me on, you know, my way. But I remember thinking at the time, oh man, if I had that guy behind me.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, Dave, speaking of New York, as we get ready to end this, speaking of New York, I had two female interviewees last week and they both was from New York, and I asked them this question. Yeah, the Yankees or the Mets?

Oh man, boy, that's a hard— you know, to ask a New Yorker, that's kind of cruel, man.

Oh no, man, you gotta take a side. You gotta take a side.

Oh God, Yankees.

Ah, my man. You know, they took the Mets. They both took the Mets. And I was shocked because I've never came across somebody from New York that said, oh yeah, I'm a Mets fan, you know. I'm like, yeah. And so I know they happy right now because the Mets just, they just whooped up on the Yankees the other day, what, 13-3 or something like that or whatever. So I know they was ecstatic. But yeah, I had to, I had to ask you that question. Okay. Knicks are the Knicks.

Oh, Knicks.

Uh, everybody say the Knicks. Yeah, so it's a Knicks, man. It's the Knicks time. So, so, Dave, man, is there anything else that you would like to share with us before we leave, man?

Yeah, I really appreciate you, sir, Mr. CJ Moneyway Johnson, for having me on your show. Uh, um, loads of fun talking to you, my man. I hope the people, uh, Pick up How Not to Make It in Hollywood on Amazon Books. I also have an entire ad campaign for the book on YouTube. If anybody wants to get a hold of me, you can get a hold of me on LinkedIn. My last name's H-E-R-N Dave, if you wanna send me a shout. And Thirsty hopefully will be hitting the theater by the end of this year.

Oh man, I wish your new movie great success, man. I wish you great success in all your endeavors. That you do moving forward, and I hope we can talk again, man.

All right, CJ, my man. Thank you.

I really appreciate you coming on. Hey, you have been listening to the CJ Moneyway Show with your boy CJ Moneyway and Hollywood actor— well, former Hollywood actor. Now he's have the book How Not to Make It in Hollywood. Go grab it. This been your boy CJ Moneyway. We out. Peace.

Thank you for listening to the The Corwin CJ Moneyway Johnson Show. Don't forget to share this episode with your friends, leave a comment, and drop a review. Be sure to tune in every Tuesday and Friday for more inspiring journeys. Who knows, your story might be next.

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