Trauma, Identity and Healing: Dr. Kirsten Viola Harrison on Surviving Systems That Fail Us

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What's up, my good people? Welcome to the CJ Moneyway Show, where we build success brick by brick and turn pain into purpose. I'm your host, CJ Moneyway, entrepreneur, media creator, and believer in turning hustle into legacy. Today we're going beyond buzzwords like resilience to explore what real survival and healing looks light. My guest, Dr. Harrison, is a trauma psychologist with over 25 years of experience helping people rebuild after profound psychological and spiritual challenges. She's taught and trained at UCLA, Georgetown, and Pepperdine, yet her work is anything but academics. It's deeply human. Her new book, co-written with Sean A. Smith, shares The lives of journey of an intersex woman navigating homelessness and dealing with schizophrenia challenges systems that often harm instead of heal. With no longer ado, hey, welcome Dr. Harrison to the show. Hey, how you doing, Doc?

Great, thanks for having me, CJ.

I appreciate you coming on, taking the time out today, although we had a couple of technical difficulties along the way. No, it's all good, it's all good. I thank you for taking the time out your busy schedule. Covered on the show. So, Doc, let me ask you, the person behind the psychology— I want to get to know Dr. Harrison. Yeah, what early life experiences shaped your passion for trauma work?

Okay, you ready? So I will say that life was pretty normal. I had a lot of trauma-informed reading material from my parents when I grew up because they had suffered through, you know, the war in Germany, England, like World War II. And then my first high school sweetheart had— unbeknownst to me, we went out to dinner on a first date and we were in a nice little private school setting. And he told me he had lived on the streets in Bogotá, Colombia when he was a little kid. He had been in an orphanage and then he was adopted and then he was put on the streets and he had a lot of really severe trauma, PTSD, flashbacks, you name it. And I was so woefully unprepared to know how to deal with that. I made it my mission to kind of start studying psychology. He became my first husband. Studying psychology delved into anything that I could find that could possibly help. And so that started it. And then I'd say like 4 years into that relationship, sadly, tragically, my brother died in an accident, in a boating accident. And so all of a sudden, this whole world of trauma that I'd started to get immersed into became super, super real on this much bigger level for me, which, you know, directly in my family and obviously something very tragic like death. You can't really come back from. And so I started studying a lot of near-death experience literature, which wasn't that much back in the day. This was in '88. I started going to a few conferences, meeting people who've had near-death experiences and coming back and talking about spirit and how their lives were fundamentally changed. And that just like gave my work so much purpose. And then I was just like obsessed. I was like, I am going to, however I can, with whatever tools I can find, Eventually, you know, got a PhD and just kept going and going. And here I am all these years later. It's actually about 35+ years, but I took some time off to raise 4 kids along the way. So yeah, but there's just been— everybody's got trauma. It just depends what kind, how severe, how people are adapting, what their, you know, family support was or not having family support. And I've worked with very severe trauma, people with what used to be called multiple personality disorder, which is now dissociative identity. People who had so much trauma as children that they literally split into parts and then working to try to help get them all like functioning well together so that they can live a productive, happy life, just like all of us want, right?

Yeah, that's what we all want. But like you say, it's always going to be some trials and tribulations, some stumbling blocks, some stones being thrown that you got to duck and dodge here and there. But let me ask you this, Doc, since I was listening to you and you said, you know, with your childhood sweetheart that, you know, you found out that he had all these issues living on the streets of Bogotá and things of that nature.

Yeah.

So I guess I want to ask you, although you advocated to learn, you know, saying find out about trauma and things of this nature, but how difficult was it, you know, saying taking on something that personal with someone who I, you know, say I take it that you truly love at the time and everything. And just taking the things that they've been through and they have to deal with it and live through it every day, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, how was that mentally on you?

So that's an excellent question, doesn't get asked enough. I do think that trauma is a third party in a relationship, and you have to learn to navigate through, you know, what you two have. And then there's this big piece over here called trauma, whether it's whether it's somebody who's been to war, a veteran, whether it's somebody who has struggled with addiction. So in my particular case, addictions became the way that he coped. And so then that's introducing a whole nother thing because the addiction is not really getting you to make progress on the core aspects of the trauma. And so I, you know, 16 years, I feel like we tried so many different things and happy to report many years later, still great friends and he's doing much better. But it's just some of those early things are just wounds that are so ineffable. And people have to do anything they can to try to protect the core spirit, that splinter of their heart that still holds the innocence and the purity and all the things from childhood that got disrupted. It's like the goal, I think, in any marriage situation or any therapy situation is to kind of keep trying to grow that, find the positive, find the things that are inspirational to kind of keep growing that instead of avoiding the trauma. But it's not easy. It's not a conscious process. I think partners in that situation have to learn a lot about their— I don't really like the word codependency because I think at the heart of it is just compassion, true compassion, and really just deep empathy. However, I think you need to learn to like take care of yourself so that, you know, the oxygen mask thing, take care of yourself so that you can take care of the other person and not— I'm a bit guilty of diving way into the trauma with somebody and then almost getting lost there, but then finding my strength and helping to pull out, and then they help pull out. Not ideal. It's hard, you know. Yeah, I don't know.

I can imagine, you know. So, you know, just listening to you, so I just had to ask you that because like you said, a lot of times we focus on the individual, you know, that, that we're trying to help and things to that nature, or the other spouse that may be going through something, and we have— but nobody really take time out to ask, you know, what was going on with you? You know what I'm saying? Because we're playing a role, and although we're trying to live our daily lives and things of that nature, trying to cope with what we're doing, but then we also, you know, saying, trying to cope with this and that. And I know when you're going through certain things, there's a lot that comes in that bag, you know what I'm saying? If you're trying to clean out a lot of garbage, I'll put it down, a lot of stuff that stinks, you know, that ain't easy to deal with.

So, but if you just fundamentally believe in the core of love and the core of healing, and that we're our mission down here, as far as I understand it from near-death experiencers is to really just whatever it is that's going to force you to just grow a little bit more, learn a little bit more, whatever our little psychic channels are that we're supposed to be plugging into down here to remember the original goal. And then to find a way— for me, what really helps me is to bring it to bigger purpose, to much bigger humanitarian purpose. And that way all of our lived experiences collectively start to teach and hold each other, and that way we can all get through. But no, it's not easy. And I feel so much for people who are in situations where they're really just both trying to understand the complexity of a trauma that's sitting out there that's truly impacting a relationship or a marriage. We don't get traumatized in a vacuum, and we don't heal in a vacuum. We've got to do it relationally but healthily.

I like that. I like that, Doc. So let me ask you, moving on, was there a defining moment when you realize healing is more than just clinical.

Oh, absolutely. I feel like when you're in a group with trauma survivors and someone does maybe a psychodrama and they're reenacting a horrible experience, and then they have the group around them saying, okay, we're here now, we're safe now, you know, you can— your body can heal differently now that you're in the surrounding by safety. The look in people's eyes, the light coming back, the way that they just all of a sudden have like a relaxed posture because, you know, something deeply, profoundly healing has just happened. Those are the things that just— it's like, those are the things that make you go, yeah, we're on the right path. Like, helping each other collectively through this life is what the journey is all about. And that's why I wrote this book with Shauna, because she had lived on cardboard for 8 years, homeless, and she just was preternaturally optimistic, like so generously helpful to people and businesses. And it was like, what's the secret sauce here? Like, how are you doing this?

So You know, you said something earlier and then, you know, saying you touched on it. So I see that that's the base of your thought process is empathy and having compassion for people, you know what I'm saying? Like, regardless of where you may be, but if I can see somebody, as you were saying about Shawna, on a cardboard box, but she's so full of energy, it's like, man, she got more energy and more excitement and joy in life, you know what I'm saying, about herself than I do. And I might be standing in the mansion and she's standing on the cardboard I need that, you know what I'm saying?

Exactly, exactly. And that's— I used to ask her, how do you do this? And she would just say, you know, I woke up every day curious. Like, once the shock of being homeless kind of, you know, sunk in, because like everybody else, she was just like one paycheck away, and then things started to happen, and there was a slippery slope and a slide into homelessness. But she just kept this incredible attitude. She also has schizophrenia, and so I think that there was some protection there from the I talk a lot about the upside of certain psychiatric disorders where people always focus on the negative. The positive was I think it helped her be a little removed from certain reality aspects that helped her stay in her own kind of bubble and get through something so difficult.

Mm. You know what, Doc, as I'm sitting here thinking about it, and before I forget, that sets something up with you, I, and Shauna to talk about your book in deep detail and just talk about her journey as well. I would love to talk to Shauna. And bring Corwin CJ Moneyway Johnson.

Oh, we would love that.

I would love that. I would love that. So let me ask you, how do you stay grounded when working with such intense human pain?

Oh, your questions are so good. Okay, so for me, it's about— ironically, I stay grounded by being connected to spirit. So I find that really deep part within me that feels like something bigger is caring for me and has got me so that I can then have the strength to have that work through me with people around. But I'm also getting better and better at not just boundaries— it's kind of a strange word, like energetically— but just I'm getting better at realizing that we're all co-creators of the solution, that it doesn't have to be all on me maybe to help figure it out, that if I can just stay a very open, loving conduit, that we can figure it out together. So that helps. But I definitely have a strong connection to whatever we would call God.

Higher power.

God.

Yeah. Lord. I love Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Yes.

However you, you know what I'm saying, you interpret it. I get you, you know.

Yeah.

And that's the, that's the foundation. That's where it all starts from. That's where the compassion, that's where the empathy comes from. You know, you can see yourself in someone else, or if I was in that position you know what I'm saying? What would I do? And so you can have compassion for a person wherever they're at. But if I'm just, you know, high and mighty, stuck on my high horse, and I see somebody sitting on the cardboard box, I'm just gonna walk right past them like they're nobody. But yeah, like you were saying, they are a creation of the same creator that created us. So who am I to say that this person is not worthy? If Shawna had been walked past, you know what I'm saying, or whatever, which she probably has been, Oh, yeah. But not knowing that she had a spirit in her that a lot of people couldn't even touch, you know what I'm saying?

Oh my gosh.

We don't know.

So long story short, after 10 years of this relationship and getting her housed for all that time and whatever, we took a 3-week trip to Europe because she is intersex, which is kind of born with ambiguous genitalia. She's sort of bi-anatomy. And so I thought, hey, why don't you go represent at World Pride and EuroPride? And she'd never left the country in 59 years. It had been 17 years since she'd been on a plane. And so we did this 3-week trip together and it was amazing how she just spread her certain blend of positivity and resilience to people all over the globe. We ended up in Iceland, very LGBT friendly. I don't know that 'cause I didn't realize that. And just watching someone blossom as you peel back all these layers and they just open like this beautiful lotus when they're given time, attention, help figuring out these daunting tasks. And also I'm very understanding and patient with, she has a lot of frequent outbursts. She walks twice as fast 12 to 14 miles a day, a half marathon a day to kind of let some of this agitation out. And it keeps her, you know, it's her mood walk therapy and it keeps her grounded. And then I stay grounded by watching how she really just wants to let in the light and she's doing everything she can to help herself. And then that makes me feel so like, yeah, let's all support each other in this. Our journeys are not linear and none— no two journeys are the same. So find the human behind the person that you see maybe on the street.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I get it, and I commend you, and, you know, say others like you, you know, like I tell people all the time, Doc, is that, you know, you living good and, you know, got your degrees and trained in different prestigious colleges and things of that nature. And so you could just take your life and your kids and everything and just live comfortably. But I love the fact that you and others not only think of yourselves, but you can come back and you can serve and help others try to get to a point in life, you know, saying to fulfill their purpose. And that's a great thing, you know, that, and that's the best thing where other people, as you were saying earlier, where other people help other people.

Well, yeah. And right back at you, because it's like we all could kind of do these little incremental steps and go, okay, we're good, you know, and, but then where's the meaning in that? I mean, for me personally, where is the meaning in that? The meaning for me, I'm never going to have fun, you know, doing something I know someone else can enjoy it as well. And so, you know, but I don't fault people who have to just stay on their path and get it right and work really hard and do that and not look sideways. The part that I think would be wonderfully challenging for them and surprising is how much then that other person can inform their lives. Somewhere in this 10-year journey with Shauna, which started in 2015, I had gotten in 2019 a life-threatening diagnosis. And they had told me I had a year to live. They were, you know, I was trying to prepare my kids. It was horrendous. And they got it wrong because we're in 2025 and I still have something, but it's not what they thought after biopsy and whatever. But Shauna was so present for me. She was so available. And so she attends 4 online church services a week. And so she would send me Bible quotes. And I wasn't raised particularly religious in any one religion. And she would send me the most wonderful things. And I thought, wow, who knew that by me taking a chance on her, that she would show up for me as well. And so I think that's what some people miss out on when they're so busy focusing on getting themselves ahead. So I don't know, it's just, it's beautiful how we can all maybe try to help each other just a little bit more.

We can miss out on some great relationships, as you say, you know, somebody that you can trust. Yes, I believe that it came to the point where somebody— this is somebody I can trust because when she was down, I was there for her, and I wasn't expecting the same in return, but she gave me more than I could have asked for, you know.

So amen, I'm looking at it as a beautiful story, you know.

I, I already like Shawna, and I don't even know, hey, but I, I want to get to know her. So let me ask you, Doc, you was talking about the diagnosis that you had and everything. What do most people misunderstand about trauma recovery?

Let's see. I think there's a lot of blame the victim going on that, oh, well, she should get over it by now. It's been 20 years or whatever. People have very severe trauma, very severe trauma. Sometimes it's just almost impossible for them to get their external lives kind of in alignment because so much is going on managing the internal. And I think a lot of that happens in recovery communities too, where there's just a lot of blaming and shaming. And I would just say, you know what? Let someone step off the path for a minute and just really focus on their internal healing. And I think that's such a huge obstacle because sometimes in the managing of symptoms and managing trying to repress the trauma, the life field outside of it becomes so destructive that people just want to stay away. But that's the trauma talking. That's the addiction talking. And it's like what they really need is for you to come a little closer and say, hey, I'm not threatening this. I just really want to be there, let you know I'm witnessing, you know, what's going on for you. I can hold it with you. And let's see if we can just kind of get a little bit it further along the process. So maybe that's a part of it, and especially with schizophrenia. So that's a different mechanism because it's much more biologically based. And so there's certain disorders like bipolar, schizophrenia that are much more kind of starting to be lumped with neurodivergent stuff where there's really just a brain-based process going on, of course exacerbated by societal stuff, sociological stuff, and psychological traumas. But I think having a little more patience and understanding like you would with somebody with autism or someone on the spectrum, being able to say, hey, they're not willfully trying to scare you by acting out or flailing around. This is somebody who's struggling. But if you can approach and just say, hey, how are you? And try to bring some good energy there, they will elevate a little bit. You know, I've done this countless times in San Diego with different people that are unhoused and other people are really scared or they're running for cover. And I just very slowly kind of go, hey, here you go. Here's like like a McDonald's card or something, and then I just kind of meet eyes for a second, and you can see the person shift their process for a second to realize, oh, this is not threatening, this is trying to help me. There's a survival thing at the bottom of everything that will somehow be workable if you just try to find a new angle.

Yeah, like I said, I'm listening to you and I'm hearing you. So let me ask you this, Doc, going back to your first husband, you know, because you dealt with Yeah, so I guess my question is, dealing with that, you know, getting into that situation and diving into it, like you said earlier, sometimes you dive into it to the point where you can't come back from it. Yeah, you gotta snap out of it. Yeah, but do you think that at that moment where, you know, saying where you were helping him, it translated and helped you better understand when you came across somebody like Shawna? Well, you know what I'm saying?

Well, that Oh, yes, absolutely. So after him— I've only revealed this on your podcast— after him, I was with somebody who was even more traumatized, if that could be said, because I felt like that's just sort of— I was so primed for it, and I was like, okay, let me keep going on this little healing thing here. And it kind of— I feel like I've seen almost every iteration of some of this very severe, like, childhood traumatic impact So of course that all landed deep inside as something that maybe I could pull on later to help people. And then my ex-husband, the tennis pro, had suffered from a lot of depression and his son had passed away and a lot of different things that happened. But he had a daughter who became my beloved stepdaughter who had special needs and she's on the spectrum and very profoundly challenged. And so she then taught me that whole world. So I feel like like how to communicate with somebody without necessarily using the right words or how to get into their mindset and their energy. And so all of it, when I met Shauna, I was, as you said, I was like, okay, this is the person that can use every last bit of whatever I've learned and soak it all in and somehow do something with it. And I used to kind of talk to God and say, maybe this was why I went through everything so that when I met Shauna, synchronistically, this could be the bigger way to help other people. So yeah, you never know.

You just nailed it on the head because that's exactly what I was thinking, how God would take us through certain things and certain challenges and certain, you know, situations to bring us to a point that we don't see it as far, you know, as far down the line. We don't see it or know why, you know, you put me in this position. Until you get to that point, you say, like you just said, okay, God, Lord, I see why I went through the challenges that I went through for this very moment right here, you know what I'm saying? And so, hey, we do— our thoughts are not his thoughts, and his ways are not our ways, you know what I'm saying? So it is what it is.

It is what it is. And I've learned from near-death experiencers that there's a waiting moment moment in surrender, that when all of a sudden you've just been flattened by the universe because you just go, "Okay, I can't do anymore," and that moment of surrender is where the spirit just kind of like floods in and then everything gets a little bit recalibrated and it's like it moves you to the next step. So the way that we view suffering fundamentally changes. It becomes like, "Okay, this is the opening to the next level that I was supposed to learn here somehow." You know, Aishana living on the streets and everything that happened to her, and then ultimate surrender, and then falling really deep into her mental illness at the time. But she said, "Doc, I always knew something was going to get better. I can't explain it. I didn't know how, but I just knew. And so I just woke up every day curious, like, will this be the day?" And people in the town have had profound synchronistic experiences with her. And so when I asked her about that, because we wrote about it in the book in a chapter, she said, "Well, I think because I'm become so open to something bigger, a higher source, her God, that I know when someone needs a reminder that we're all connected. And so I can sense when they need something, and when they're thinking about me, it directs my feet to a—

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Here in front of them to remind them, and I'm like, that is so beautiful. You know, spoken like a walking spirit.

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Yeah, that spoke, you know, and I think I said something when we started off, like, you can walk past something but not knowing what's inside of her, and the spirit of God is dwelling inside. But as we do humanistically, you know what I'm saying, as individuals, what do we do a lot of time? We walk right past God as if he's not present with us every day. Yes, we hear this voice and we keep on moving. Yeah, I go to church when I, you know, when I get myself right. But when somebody is full with the Holy Ghost and full with the Spirit, what's in them gonna come out of them, you know what I'm saying? And that sounds like Shawna. What's in her is gonna come out of it. Once she feels something, she's going to say it, you know what I'm saying? Oh yeah, if you accept it or not, but this is what's on my heart. To give to you today, whether you accept what I'm saying or not. But yeah, I did a podcast. The podcast that I was doing was called Planting Seeds with CJ. And so what Shawna's doing to me, it sounds like a reminiscence. And a lot of times all we can do is plant seeds.

Yes.

Some plant, some water, but it's God who gives the increase, you know what I'm saying? So, oh yeah, to me it sounds like Shawna is doing her part in life, you know.

Yes.

And it's a beautiful thing.

And she struggles. I mean, I've been with her and she's had to go, guys, guys, like her voice is her people. Or she'll say, ma'am, or she'll do something. And I watch her struggle, but then she goes, it's okay. She finds a way to kind of get herself through. And so then when we talk and I say, hey, Doc, who are you talking to? Or she'll go, no, don't go there, Doc. And I'll be like, okay, well, hey, what would you think that everybody would be happy doing today? And it just kind of— you find a way to just sort of shift it. Just like when my stepdaughter, who she might not tell us what's going on at school. But if I say, hey, what would Elsa, the princess in Frozen, tell me about school? Then it's like different things come out. You just have to find your ways, your ins, your ways of getting that connection and that spirit and, you know, fanning it for people.

I like that. I like that you use cartoon reference. Like, that's psychological. See, that's a psychology, you know what I'm saying? I'm gonna use this psychological approach. Something that you women got real good, even though they're not licensed to be a psychologist like our wives, you know, they try to be psychologists too, you know what I'm saying, telling us what to do.

Yeah, you know, you find whatever works.

Hey, my girl could try to use that psychology on me. Hey, so, um, let me ask you, Doc, identity and resilience. How do identity and survival intersect with your clinical and personal work?

Okay, let's see. I think personally and clinically, the more congruent you can be with who you think you are, where of course is changing all the time, right, is something that then builds trust, like you said, and builds some sort of kind of like, okay, I know if I'm interacting with this person, she usually responds in a humanitarian manner or whatever it is. And then that's your way of being able to, then kind of feel like you're all glued together a certain way. And then that can intersect within your professional work. You know, like in any field, if you're feeling it and you're feeling good about the way that you know that you want to inspire people, then that just resonates and that just comes through in your professional work. So I think there's a lot of need for congruency. And I think a lot of people these days suffer from either like, you know, a sense of, oh, am I actually good enough? Or am I an imposter? Do people think something of me, but it's not really me? Well, the more you can work on kind of bringing it together and bridging those gaps. You can be an ally and show up for people in different ways. You can be a voice for people in different ways. So I think it's about congruency.

I like that. So let me ask you, Doc, what can leaders learn about resilience from those society, as we were talking about earlier, often overlook?

Uh, I just have the firmest belief that those who have touched the edges of like sanity, like they've gone to the edge where we would call it totally chaotic crazy. In math, there's fractal base and boundary. And it's like an equation that says at the very end of chaos is ultimate order. And you'll never find it till you get to the very end of chaos. And I feel like that's the same thing with people, for instance, who've dropped out of like society's like mainstream. Those in the margins have so much to teach us that we could never understand unless we've been there, you know, or meet them there. And so listen to them because they will be the harbingers of the next spiritual, like, evolution. The next— they'll have outside-of-the-box solutions. They've survived through the unthinkable. So we need to really give it a lot of credence for our own survival and our own traumatic resilience to really, really go there and listen. We don't have to go to the edge of that. We probably can't. I, I've never suffered through, like, a war as a refugee, but listening to their experience and really honoring how much their soul has had to grow and how much their defenses have had to like learn to cope to protect the spirit. We would do really well by honoring and paying attention to all of that. Like, just listen and just take a chance on people and their different experiences and their different expertise, you know.

And like you say, we can always learn from somebody, you know. Going back on what you said earlier, you know, it was some things that you learned from your beloved stepdaughter, you know what I'm saying? It's like It don't matter who it is. We all can learn something from somebody, you know what I'm saying? Because we don't know who God has put the spirit in to give us this message today or that. But because of who that person is, like, I don't want to hear what Dr. Harrison got to say. I don't want to hear what CJ got to say. He ain't nobody. But not knowing that it may have been that moment where God filled us with the spirit and gave us a word.

Exactly. You don't know where it's coming from. So it's kind of like, that's why people who suffer from a lot of depression, they start to like make their world really small by no fault of their own. It's the brain chemistry and whatever their experiences, but it's like that little interaction that might've just made that difference or watching the bird fly a certain way. It's like, you just don't know where it's going to come from. Like you said, that seed, that inspiration. And then how also we can also take a huge moment to realize how can we water that? How can we provide it sunshine and hope? I mean, life is hard. Like, I don't care what your situation, life is hard. It's challenging. You know, but finding the ways to feed that hope is just like so important. When I had my diagnosis and I was terrified and I was like, "How could I leave my kids so young?" And I just thought, "You know what? I don't care. They can cut every part of my body. If I just have a head, if I just have a little bit, that gives me hope." And then I, at the end of the whole journey and then the much better prognosis, I bought myself these little tiny, tiny diamond earrings and they were my sparkle of hope. And so anytime I get really sad about something, I will put on my little earrings and go, "You know what? There's always an indomitable sparkle of hope.

So always, as long as we still got breath, he can do it, you know what I'm saying? He can do it. He's my healer. Jehovah Jireh, Jehovah Nissi, Jehovah Shalom, you know what I'm saying? My healer. He's my everything. So the doctors may have gave me a diagnosis, but as I hear this all the time, I know it's cliché, but they say, but God has the final say, which is true. And I know that You've experienced it firsthand, as you said. So, hey, we all taste and see how good the Lord is. It is what it is.

It is what it is.

Yes. Yes, it is what it is.

And Anita Moorjani, so she does a lot of talking about near-death experiences, and she was about 5 breaths away from being done. Her cancer had taken over her whole body and somehow she got healed. But I don't know, you know, some people call it the Holy Spirit entered her, whatever it was. She got healed and she now goes around perfectly healthy, beautifully wonderful person and speaks all over the world about her, what happened, and that she never gave up, up until the last breath.

And yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm listening. I mean, this is biblical, this is word. Like the lady that had 12 years issue of blood, you know, and they say she touched the hem of the garment of Jesus Christ and she was healed. I mean, this lady for 12 years with blood issues, you know. And I know women, you know, you know, monthly stuff or whatever, so you know how you bleed. He went 12 years with this, 12.

Yeah.

And then miraculously, by just touching him and his garment, he was healed. And so he's giving us the blueprint that, hey, regardless of what you may be going through— Doc, you've been through it, uh, Shana, you know what I'm saying, some others have been through some near-death experiences And God pulled them out. And that makes your faith and your belief even stronger, even stronger.

And it can be— I've heard stories from people who grew up in communist China who had no religion whatsoever. They saw something. I've heard stories, you know, Buddhist. It's like everybody— there's some universal energy, I believe, that's holding it all together. But I also know that there's a lot of free will involved in this lifetime. There's a lot of pre-ordained things that we know we decided sort of to struggle through on some level. And the reality is like, if you want to feel good at the end of your life, my prescription as a doctor would be do humanitarian work in little tiny planting seeds, little increments as you can. Bring a little hotel soap and put it by a homeless person so that if they, you know, get to get to a beach shower someplace that they have a little soap. All those things make the hugest difference and you don't realize it until all those ripples start to add up and they become additive and then it's like, oh, that did make a difference. You know, and I've heard it firsthand from Shawna when she was unhoused, like how much it made a difference for somebody to leave a little $5 bill by her bed when she was sleeping. That gave her some ability to get sustenance the next day. And people might think it's inconsequential, but it's not. It's huge.

So humanity, like you said, we need more of that because we just see what they just did to the humanity department yesterday. But we ain't gonna talk about that.

Yeah.

Uh, so we need more people like you, Doc. We need more people to have compassion. And love for others. And speaking of compassion, let me ask you this.

Okay.

What role do compassion and storytelling play in deep healing?

Ah, great, because we all have stories, and I feel like sometimes we just hearing that so-and-so went through this thing and you're like, really, her? You know, it's like it just makes you go, okay, that just made it so much more human and relatable. And so I think storytelling is just so important the way that we can kind of give a different message through something. I mean, just like in the Bible, you know, the parables, it's all— it's stories, and then they resonate with us, and then we can mull them over, and then we can kind of relate in our own ways. And so that part is really, really important. And compassion, of course, it's all about— even compassion, it starts with compassion for the self. When you have compassion, like when Shauna was on the street and finally realized, wow, I am on the street, and I'm struggling, but having compassion, okay, it's not because you didn't pay your student loan or your bill, you did the best you could, having compassion for yourself and then going, okay, well, if I have compassion for myself, I can start to like make my light a little brighter. I can start to attract like-minded energy. And I will say that really works because you never know who's watching. And I mean this in the sense of the day that it was pouring rain that I first got Shana a hotel room. I was at the grocery store really late at night getting dog food or something, and I saw her out there in the pouring rain just shivering in a bikini top, a long pretty wig. And I was like, "Do you not have shelter?" And because I had interacted with her enough, but I didn't realize she was unhoused. And she said, "No, ma'am." And I was like, "Okay, we got to put you up at a hotel. This is like not okay with me that I'm going home to a nice home and you don't have anywhere to go outside of the rain." And she just kind of like put her hands up to the heavens and said, "Thank you." And then she said, "Bless." And she was filled with so much gratitude. And I thought, "That is going to make me not stop until she's housed forever." It was that ability to show gratitude and ability to kind of be receptive and open-hearted to what was being offered. And then my ability, that just opened my compassion because I thought, "This is the right person." to pour all the compassion I have into because she's taking it in. And she wants to do something to make her situation better. So you just never know. Like, you never know. So if you show up with compassion for yourself first, I think that you're going to attract like-minded energy. In fact, I know it.

I like it. You know, you put me in a mind that made me think about a guy interview probably about a month or so ago. And they started a business house where they would build beds, and they would build beds and stuff, and it grew. And they was like, you know, in the small community that they was in, and people— you say, CJ, you would be amazed at some people that had never had a bed, or, you know, saying sleeping in the car and have a, you know, saying it did, you know, they move into a house. And he was telling me about a story where a young kid had never laid on the bed before they had a house, but they had no furniture or nothing. And when they brought that bed in, you know, made me sound like, you know, what you talking about, Shawna, at that point. And when they brought the bed in, how excited this young girl was about having a bed, something that she never had before, you know what I'm saying? Just the joy that you can bring to people with just a token of empathy or compassion, as we were talking about. So you made me think about him in that situation when you said Shawna just said, you know, thank— you know.

Yes. And it's the little things too. I mean, Shauna didn't have a towel, so when I first got her an apartment and I got her a set of towels, she like lost her mind. She was like, do you know how many times I've walked freezing to the beach shower and back and never had a towel? Like a towel, you know. Like the bed, I had gotten her a mattress for her first apartment and she started walking straighter, like literally walking straighter. And she's like, Doc, I can I can sleep. I actually can sleep. And it's like these things that we just take for granted. But the little girl part of your story, she showed the gratitude. She was in joy. And she is. So then other people want to help more because they see like, oh my gosh, that made such an impact. So I think it just keeps building on itself, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. Because like you said, you know, because they got chapters in different states now, you know, so that they built, like you say, because people have, you know, said, seen the impact that this type of thing brings. And so now people, they train people to start their own chapters to do these type of things in their own community. And so I'm hoping, you know, by next year sometime that I can be, you know, saying, get some tutors from and some guidance from them and build a chapter here in Northwest Indiana, you know, because we don't know what people going through. You don't know what people are going through.

Yeah. And honestly, it's like we think we're in America, you know, everybody's got a bed. Of course they don't. You know, and it's just like, we gotta just start opening our eyes and like looking for these. There's an unhoused guy in La Jolla who is very like belligerent and it's really hard to get near him. So I mean, it's really hard to kind of like try to find a way to help. And so, but I noticed his shoes were just flopping open and just horrible. So I kind of sized him up in my head and I put a brand new pair of shoes in the garbage can, like right near him without him seeing. But then when he walked over to the garbage and found them, like they were his treasure that he found, he took them. So I was like, okay, gotta just find creative ways to see what way you can kind of like compassionately meet somebody where they are, what they need. So, you know, I love that you're doing that, and I love that you're highlighting people who are doing those things, because no act is ever like too small or too— it's always going to have a good consequence if it's coming from the right intention.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, and it makes me think about it, you know, because of the times that we're in right now.

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

And we're going to need more of Dr. Harrison and more my man that do the beds and things of that nature because we gonna have to pull together. Because I don't know, you know, I mean, we just gotta, you know what I'm saying, because it's gonna be so many more, you know, uh, without— that's lacking, you know what I'm saying? And it's gonna be a test of our humanity, it's gonna be a test of our faithfulness and our you know, certitude and things of that nature. So, uh, so I just encourage you, Doc, to just keep on doing what you're doing. You're doing a wonderful thing out there.

Likewise. I mean, the reality is we got to stay human and we got to help people find their dignity if they've lost it or they've lost a sense of who they are. And, and you never know. I mean, Shawnee used to go to restaurants and in exchange for a piece of pizza or something, she'd wash the manager's car or she'd do a little shopping cart and bring waters from the grocery store and they trusted her and she, they bought, they had this mutual neighborly kind of community building experience. And I feel like just start anywhere, start anywhere. And there will be a little bit of kind of like a ripple effect and then it'll build.

So, you know, you know, I'm glad you brought that up because you made me think about something that I was going to say. You said something earlier, you said, oh, well, you say she was going from the beach house and didn't have a towel, say that she never had a towel. And you made me think about it now. You made me think about even more when you said that, you know, she would go to the store, wash cars, and, you know, carry a bottle of water. And that's how I know now that the spirit of God was in her, because when you're going through certain things and you're living out on the streets, and sometimes life can seem like, you know, it's oblique or, you know, destitute, but for her not to go out there and steal— yes, she needed— you know what I'm saying? Like, come on now, it could be easy to go into a dollar store or, and maybe try to take a bag in there and walk out with a little towel because this is something that I need. But for her not to go to those measures, you know what I'm saying? Yes. Wait on the— you know what I'm saying? Oh, her angel. Wait on her angel. Yeah. And stayed out there singing in the rain.

Yeah, she was literally like singing in the rain.

I forgot how that cartoon was. Singing in the rain. Okay, so Doc, I really appreciated you, and I just got one more question for you, and I'll let you go and take on Shauna today. And tell her I said hi.

I definitely will.

So, Doc, let me ask you, what advice do you give to those healing while still trying to achieve big dreams?

Okay, so keep going. Like, you never know what's going to happen. Just a little moment around the corner. Literally, look at Shauna. Yeah, it was just a few steps around the corner, right? You never know. So it's like that indomitable hope, that spirit, that faith that somehow this is going to end, the bad stuff is going to end, and that something is going to change, it's going to shift, and that that's what we're here to learn. And you don't realize that, but I think on some level this was something that we kind of like challenged ourselves with to come here and learn this in this earthly school or environment. And Just keep going. And then that healing story is going to turn into the story of like big thriving and post-traumatic growth and success in ways that you can't even measure. But when you're in that thinking, challenge yourself to just find one little moment of beauty. Look at the little butterfly on the green grass or whatever it is, but it will get better. It just by nature of life and evolving, things do not stay in one place. You will always find a new thing. Just trust that and believe that. I've seen it happen. I've seen so many times with so many clients over 35 years, so many people in my personal life, just the transformations. My first husband that we started the show with, I can't believe the amazing life he's living. You know, he's Hollywood producer. He's doing all this amazing stuff and took his trauma and turned it into purpose, the pain to purpose. Back when I met him when he was 15, would have never dreamed ever that this would all somehow come circular. So just keep the faith.

Faith.

I like it. Now you threw another layer on that. Now Hollywood producer, Doc, she out there planting seeds, helping people grow, man, I tell you. So Doc, let me ask you, where can we find you all's book? Where can we find you on social media?

Okay, so the book, Amazon, Barnes Noble, you name it. My website, soulwisessolutions.com. So S-O-U-L-W-I-S-E solutions.com is where a lot of people have come together. The testimonials from the mayor of Palm Springs for Shauna, just different people have come together. We talk more about the story. Social media, it's called Soulwise Team. She has a million likes on certain videos on Instagram and on TikTok. And this is quite incredible considering that neither one of us knew anything about things like TikTok. So, you know, her story kind of resonant with people and it's giving them a lot of hope. So, okay. Yeah.

Okay. So, so, so wise.com.

So wise team. So T-E-A-M. So wise team is our handle or whatever you call it for TikTok and Instagram. And soulwise solutions.com is the website. And then of course you can buy the book on Amazon and Barnes and Noble. And I would love people to read the book. We really labored over that for years. But, and she introduces every chapter with her own, like, set of quotes and insights. But also it just gives people, like, every chapter has something about growth and resilience and getting through trauma and finding joy. So I'd love people to be inspired.

I love people to be inspired too. Doc, you have inspired us. And with that being said, what I ask, what I've been asking my guests lately is before we get out of here, Give us one thing, one last thing, something that you would like to share that's on your heart today.

Ah, just connection and togetherness. And like, I love popping up on a podcast not really knowing who I'm going to be interacting with and what they're all about. I mean, to some degree, but then it's like this human connection. You're like, gosh, that's my friend now, you know. I just met someone from Indiana that I really enjoy, and it's like that for me is what it's all about. And it's like You just never know what those connections are going to just, you know, do to open your heart and give you a little more something for that day.

So yeah, yeah. And that is the truth. We can go on and on about it. We'll do that next time when you and Shauna come on and talk about—

that would be cool—

to talk about the book. Uh, let me get the title again. What's the title again?

So it's I, Shauna: The Story of a Homeless Intersex Woman Who Inspired a Community.

I love it, I love it. And so I want you guys to come on and— or you gals to come on.

We would love it.

This is TJ Moneyway's show. So, so Dr. Harrison, she reminded us today that healing isn't about erasing pain, it's about rewriting your story and owning your identity. If this conversation sparked anything in you, share it with someone who needs Hope and subscribe to the CJ Moneyway Show for more brick-by-brick stories of resilience and purpose. And be sure to check out Dr. Harrison— I forget it— like, SoulwiseSolutions.com, and then they handle is Soulwise Team on social media. All those links will be in the show notes. So until next time, this your boy CJ Moneyway, and she said, with my new friend From Minnesota all the way to San Diego, Dr. Harrison. We out of here. Peace.

Shared here. It's a reminder that your story matters too. Keep your faith sharp, keep your focus steady, keep your vision clear. And if this episode gave you wisdom, hope, or a push forward, share it with somebody you love. Add me on all platforms @moneyway and stay locked into the movement because God's not done writing your chapter. This is the CJ Moneyway Show. Brick by brick. And always. Moneyway Johnson.

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