In this interview, Bob Martin explains cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) as a process that moves from an external trigger, through a fleeting thought, to an emotion and a self‑reinforcing story that becomes one’s perceived reality. He contrasts CBT with common misconceptions about meditation, emphasizing that meditation is not about stopping thoughts but about observing them from a detached perspective. Martin introduces the philosophical idea that the "I" who experiences thoughts is the soul, allowing a person to step back, watch emotions like anger or sadness, and decide whether they are helpful. This mindful observation gives individuals greater agency over their internal narrative. He promotes a free 45‑page ebook on meditation available via wiseandhappylife.com and his email iambobmartin@gmail.com. Finally, Martin teases an upcoming true‑story project set in Alamance County, detailing a complex relationship between an elderly white man and a young Black man, highlighting themes of love, identity, and transformation.
Chapters
there's this kind of therapy called CBT, or cognitive behavioral therapy. And, and the way it works is you work with the therapist and you try to, you try to recognize that something will happen to you. Somebody will come up, or you reach your hand out to shake somebody's hand and they don't offer their hand. So something happens, right? So you get a thought in your head, and that thought, it lasts maybe 2.5 seconds. And it's gone, but it leaves you with a feeling, an emotion, like, I don't like this guy, you know, like, why did, you know, well, that's rude. You might, it might have been the thought and it's gone and you're just left with the feeling. I don't like this guy. And based on the fact of your emotion, you know, you're going to go then do something else, which is going to make him do something else. And then out of the whole thing, you develop a story. And then that story becomes your reality, whether or not it's accurate or not. And so CBT is the process of recognizing the thought, seeing the emotion that it led to, and then kind of pulling apart the story that you have now accepted as your truth, which may or may not be true. We call it this committee in our head. And it's— and our mind's always running. And when you go to ask somebody to meditate, they sit down and they sit, last for 20 seconds, and they go, I could never do this because I get all these thoughts. I can't stop the thoughts. That's not what meditation is. Meditation is not even trying to stop the thoughts.
Okay.
And a lot of people have an emotional reaction to that. Right? Okay. So what you, you, you see it and you have a thought, I don't like that, or that's rude, or that's this, or that's that, but you have a judgment and you have that thought and there's no difference between you and that thought. I am that thought. You are that thought. You say, I feel, I, that person, and that's your truth, right? What if I could help you to step back from your thoughts and be the person who is the I in the sentence, I had a thought. CJ, what I would ask you this question. If you say I had a thought, who is the I that had the thought?
It would be me.
But it's not your thought. Because you had the thought, right?
Okay.
You had the thought. So it's not your thought. So who is the I? And since you're a religious man and I'm a spiritual man, we're both religious folks. I'm not scared to say I believe that the I that had the thought is your soul. When you can step back and realize I'm not the blackboard, but I'm the person that writes on the blackboard, and I start to get back in touch with my soul, I can start letting go of all that gray dust. And I can get back to the soul that I was created with. So the process of meditation is really— see, CJ, I have this wonderful, glorious benefit, blessing in my life. Where I can get pissed. I don't want to use a bad word, but I can get pissed. Something like, I can get pissed stuffless, right? I can get pissed. And at the same time that I'm pissed, I can be watching myself be pissed.
Yeah.
I can be sad and I can watch myself be sad. Now all of a sudden I'm not afraid of being sad. Because there's a place where I'm okay with it. Yeah, I can be angry. And I can be saying, is this anger helping me right now? Or is it hurting me? Is this a good thing for me or a bad thing for me? And if I decide from that other place, from my soul, if I decide that this anger is not helpful, you know, I can deconstruct it.
Yeah.
So I much more have a say in the matter of my life when I can step out of my thoughts and be the creator of my thoughts and be my own database and feed my database the data that I want instead of the data that this world has given me. And that's what meditation is really all about. If your listeners want to know more about it, I've written a free ebook that's free. It's 45 pages. It's full of inspirational stuff and it's fun. So they could just send me an email, um, or they can go, they can go to wiseandhappylife.com.
wiseandhappylife.com. What's your email address?
The email address is, I'll give you the easiest one, it's iambobmartin@gmail.com.
Iambobmartin@gmail.com.
And just ask me for the free ebook and I'll send it right out to you and you'll read more about meditation.
I'm going to send you a request for the free ebook because that was, that was, that was powerful. And I'm also, I also want to grab the book I Am the Way, man. Every author that I have on my show, I tell them that I'm going to get their book and I got a bookshelf. And so I'm trying to fill my bookshelf up, man, with inspirational people like yourself. I really appreciate you coming on today, man, and sharing your story, man. It was very, very intriguing and very, very insightful, man. And I enjoyed it, to be honest with you.
So I appreciate it.
Bob, before we get out of here, man, is there anything else that you would like to share? Is it anything, any other projects that you have on the horizon that we can look forward to?
Well, I've got some, I got some great projects. I got, I got a real, a real true story. Of, in Alamance County, which is deep south, which used to be the headquarters for the KKK. I have a story of a old Alamance County family guy who grew up and never got married, took care of his mom, and then needed somebody to take care of him. And he wound up hiring a young Black man who just got out of jail, and they hated each other until he discovered that he was gay at 67. And then they fell in love with each other.
