You May Also Like: Creative Entrepreneur with Julie Lokun and Domasky — Featuring Neil Rogers

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You want to go where everybody knows your name.

All right, guys, pull up your bar stool and loosen that tie. Today we are going to go to the place where everybody knows your name for a different kind of happy hour. There is no watered-down cliché, no watered-down drinks, no stale sales receipts. We are taking a sip of real sales wisdom with Neil Rogers, author of Bar Tips. Everything I needed to know in sales, I learned behind the bar. I'm telling you, this is a great book. I devoured it. Everything is dog-eared. I've written all over the book. Just, it is so good, it's so helpful, and it makes me think differently how I navigate not only my business, not only how I navigate sales, but how I navigate my life. If you want to learn how to read people, handle pressure, build instant rapport, and upsell without sounding like a walking infomercial, you're gonna Neil Rogers today. And Dom, I want you to grab your glass. What are you drinking today? We're going to pretend that you're drinking something really fun.

Let's pretend if I was drinking something, it'd be 16 ounces of something cold. There you go, in a nice mug.

Would it be a Mountain Dew, or would it be something stronger than a Mountain Dew?

Neil, Neil, as a bartender, does not want to hand out Mountain Dews to people.

This is, this is for adults. This podcast is for adults.

16-ounce, uh, 20-ounce tall boy. There you go. Julie, let's get into this with Neil Rogers, this expert. We have an expert on in here.

So we do, Neal, put a little vodka in that Mountain Dew. Now we'll have a wide awake drink.

See, I knew, I knew Neal was going to go along with this one. What are you— what would you be drinking right now if it wasn't like 1:30 in the afternoon? Or maybe you are drinking something fun.

Well, it's, it's approaching happy hour on this, on this fine day. It'll be— so actually, I just picked up down at Whole Foods, I grabbed a 4-pack of Carlsberg Pilsner.

Carlsberg Pilsner, is that German or what is that?

It is, I believe it's a German, of, uh, it's a German beer. Yes.

German beer. And by the way, Dom and I are gonna end up with Boston accents by the end of this podcast.

Just saying. You'd be calling me dude, bro. No, no problem. Me and, oh, by the way, you probably read about my cousins, right?

The Wahlbergs?

The Wahlbergs.

See, I did read your book. The Wahlbergs.

I don't know. They know it. Although they actually do. But, uh, yeah. So yes, that was, that's what I would be imbibing in at some point in time today, for sure.

Okay, so let's get into this here before we get into bar tips, because you wrote this great book and that people are talking about everywhere. But how did you become the expert to say, I need to write about a book about sales? What made you determine I was a bartender, now I need to tackle sales and share these lessons? Why was that?

Well, it's not very sexy. It was, it was done during, you know what, and I won't say the word. And basically done so I didn't drive myself crazy. So way it came about is this. So somewhere around, I don't know, I wanna say around 8 years ago, my daughter was honored locally here and it was the 30, you know, by the chamber, 30 to Watch Under 30. At the time she was 30. I don't know what she was at the time. And you know, the, the chamber, they've got an award for everything. So I go to the event, of course we do. We're still doting parents.

Right?

So we get there. And so this, that, and the other thing, they do their thing. The keynote speaker is the guy who brought Five Guys Burgers to New Hampshire, which is where we currently live. And nuts and bolts speaker, just like me. I don't, you know, I don't sound like I'm from Harvard because I didn't go to Harvard. I flunked out of two community colleges.

Okay?

I'm not going to go out and learn how to speak like I came from Harvard.

Right.

So that's what this guy was like. Really great. Very nuts and bolts. And he started talking about— if you've ever been in hospitality or waited tables or bartended or whatnot—

have you ever been in hospitality? I don't mean to interrupt, but there is another connection we have here. And I'm going to put ding, ding, ding, ding right here because I'm seeing all these connections between Neil and Tom.

So I'll take that as a yes.

No. Yeah, man, I own my own restaurant.

Oh, geez.

Went to bartending school, worked at TGI Fridays. Come on, I did it all. So keep on talking.

Was that when they were doing all the fancy spinning of the bottles and all that routine?

Well, then I waited tables and was a host and a dishwasher, so I had all the bases of the restaurant business.

We did. I think we did follow the same path.

Now that Julie brought it up, I also went to Weinstein's and Cocktails bartending school, so I'm a fan. Of what— so we need these tips from you. What do you got? Continue.

So anyway, so, so he gets into what is pre-meal. So this, you know, what's 86th, what the wine, whatever it might be, all those things, you know. And then there's usually some sort of rah-rah speech. Let's have at it tonight, gang, etc., that type of deal. And he would say to his team, we're not in the burger business, we're not in the fry business, we're not in the soda business, we're not in the shake business. We're in the hospitality business. I went, so at the time, so Lori and I, so Lori and I met at Tia's, who you read about, Julie, one of the bars, one of the restaurants in town we worked at. And I looked at her and I said, I've never left the bar business. I've been bartending on the road for almost 40 years. Same things. When all that's, so that was in my head. And then when you know what came, and I'm sitting in my office trying to figure out what the heck am I going to do? Although our business was still pretty good at the time. I would text people just a howdy doody, how are you doing? And invariably I'd get a call back, you know, because everybody's feeling this. You all remember, we're all feeling the same way, right? So a guy calls me back, his name is Terry McMahon. And Terry was a very successful general agent in MassMutual until his success took him to places where he needed a new liver. So Terry at the 11th hour got the liver. And so he's 18 months removed from getting this liver. And the guy is like Bill Murray from Groundhog Day. Remember Bill Murray in Groundhog Day when you look up and now he's a jazz pianist and he's saving lives and he's doing all this stuff because every day. So he says, Terry, you sound like Bill Murray because I wrote a book. I wrote a book on how to write a book. I did this, I did that. He goes, you should write a book. I said, what am I going to write on? So I started thinking about it. And this thing, which I live on campus where the event was, that's why I'm pointing that way. That my daughter got when I came to that realization, I said, oh, I know I'm going to write on. And I had already written some ditties about, we just had a 70th birthday party for one of the guys that worked with us in the first bar I worked at, the Full Sail. And so I made up all the t-shirts. It was just like this really unbelievable night. And because I was a commuter student, that's my fraternity, the people I worked in bars with and whatnot. I mean, I still have friends, you know, after 40-plus years, 40-plus years. So I wrote all about that, the emotion of the night, how it felt to go back there and think about that place again. It's like I was there. It was the strangest feeling, right? So we, we, I had that and then I had just also written about growing up in that same area 'cause I was summered in this place called Whitehorse Beach where the Full Sail was. And I, we, it was like that, it was that place you went whether you had 2 weeks, a week, your family went, or you have a cottage somewhere, you know, wherever you guys from. And, and that was, that, that had emotion in it. And then I just started thinking about, so there's 2 pieces. And then I had already done some research on other businesses and how they use hospitality. I think we did something on Starbucks, a men's store in Atlanta, a financial services company, all that stuff. And so that was chapter 3. And then I just started thinking, well, what are the things that you need as a salesperson, businessperson, or I think as Julie said, which I think was my greatest compliment, life skills. Julie said it, but also I had a friend say that to me. He goes, Neil, I loved your book. Is that how you did the other stuff too? I said, yeah, same stuff. I mean, as you know, Julie, we're not splitting the atom in the thing. It's just, Showing up on time, being organized, the importance of that first initial greeting. You never get that second shot at a first deal. So all those things just popped in. And then I, I would interview, I interviewed—

So Neil, before you, before you get into that, what I want to know is in today's world, like as a businessman, you, you were running a successful business all while using these tools from the book. So can you tell us how you were using them in, as an entrepreneur, how were you using them and then how they relate to the book?

Oh, simply we treat everybody like gold. We live the golden rule. We treat other people as if, as the way we would like to be treated. You know, everybody gets a hello, everybody gets a goodbye. Every, and my emails are always started with a dear. I've got a sign-off. All those simple little things. I do a whole speech on the little things and everything we talk about, this is little things. So how you initiate that relationship. So how do you take, so once you've made that initial contact, you walked into the bar, let's take it back to the bar. You walked in, hey Dom, how are you? You and Julie together? You guys are crazy. What are you doing tonight? What do you have, usuals?

Okay, great.

Listen, what are you doing tonight?

Tell me.

Oh, what am I doing now? I'm listening. I said your name. Dale Carnegie says it's the greatest thing you'll ever hear is your name.

Heck yeah. That is a skill a lot of people don't have, right? People do not remember people's names. They are more interested in speaking and talking and talking and talking than actually listening. And that is something my father has always taught me, that the magic of remembering people's names, even if you met them a month ago or 2 months ago or 3 months ago, if you remember their name, names, they are almost putty in your hands. Like, honestly, I don't know the science behind it, but it is the one thing I know that is magic. And if you're not doing it right now, you need to start doing that.

Here's everybody I've met at Sky Meadow. This is where I live now. Just people I've met. I put a name, it's in my notes. So what would happen is, is because when you meet a volume of people, it's not uncommon think you might struggle with it a little bit, right? So you get a little cheat sheet. Nothing wrong with a cheat sheet. And then I just, oh, oh, Angie and Joe from Florida. Oh yeah, I remember those guys. Yeah, he's, he does, he works with Hawken and she's, she's in sales with this software company and their daughter is at Belmont. Belmont as a music major. Oh, and she's got a lovely voice. I remember when she sang at my party last year. See how that goes? Now you've got that going. And if you think about it, a metaphor in this, you're like, for now, is I don't know if you guys remember when Home Depot came to town. Do I do everybody right? You walked in and there was a sea of orange aprons, just to see it. How you doing? How can I help you? Where are you going? Take you right over to where you're going, right? It's a ghost town now. You walk in there, there's nobody there. And if you go to somebody in the department, they know they might not be there to park. Oh, hold on. Let me see if I can get you that guy now. If you go to Beltades or the Ace Hardware store guy downtown, guess what happens? You walk through the door. How you doing? What you, what are you in for today? Hold on, let me take you over there. So you see the similarities in what you're trying to do if you're paying attention to them and, and the like. I think the next thing on the list would be time management or no organized, the most organized wins. So if we're talking about sales for sure, right? How do you organize yourself? When you go out on a sales call, a business call, whatever it is, you, you're organized in a form of fashion, so you're not going to waste their time. It's about respect. There's also respecting people's time. You respect them as a person, you respect them, you know, you're listening to them, you're showing them respect by keeping your mouth shut. So one of the lines is this, this guy that I worked for years ago, and he's just a Great guy, great mentor of mine, and his brother, both of them. They used—

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We were selling athletic footwear and apparel and we used to, you know, so we had multiple lines with multi-line reps and anytime we were at a meeting, he would get us all together, he would give us a rah-rah speech and then he, then he'd say, if you forget everything I just told you, remember this: never avoid an opportunity to keep your mouth shut.

That's fair. So when you were working behind the bar, Was there ever a time where you had to keep your mouth shut so you didn't, what, so you got a tip or so you didn't get punched in the mouth?

No, it's more along the line of respecting and listening. You know, he's also looking for us not to have 4 beers and say something stupid to one of the principals, for sure. That's the underlying, but really it's about when somebody walks into the booth, 'cause we covered off many booths, even though if it's not your customer, Make sure you take care of them as if they were. Show them that we're part of the team and listen to what they're looking for. So that's that. So the bar metaphor in that one would be when you walk into a bar. So there's a place right down here called Not Your Average Joe's. And they built this thing out of, it was an old Pier 4 import, but Pier 1, no, Pier 1 Imports. So I'm sitting there one day and this girl, she could hum. I'm watching her move and she's moving. And that was, you know, my big thing is I had quick hands. I could, I could, I was just very quick. And so I'm like, oh, you could work. I'm saying, you could have worked with me. But why? But I said, why are they making you run up? Did this, didn't this bar get built by scratch, from scratch? He goes, yeah. I said, they obviously didn't have a bartender develop it for them, did they? So they're not organized. They're not. So now it affects their performance, right? At Tia's, again, back to the place that Julie knows, That place was set up for success. I can tell you today, today, what was in that Speedwell, Speed Rack. And I can tell you that in the slanted racks right here was Stoli, Stoli, because we didn't have 8 zillion vodkas, we had 3. You had the, you had the Rotgut in the, in the Speedwell, in the Speed Rack. And then you had Stoli, Absolut, and Smirnoff. No, Smirnoff, Stoli, and Absolut. That was it. There was no flavors, none of this and whatever. But I mean, think about that, how that's ingrained in my mind. That is 43 years ago. We go right down the list. It's like, you know, then time management. Well, you show up on time and showing up on time is 15 minutes early.

Why don't people show up on time? That's like the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Why do people do these little things that are just like you should learn in kindergarten? This is what just everybody I think should do. Like, you should wash your hands after you go to the washroom. You should show up on time. You should look decent when you go to work. Like, don't have spots all over your clothes. People don't do this stuff. And you write about that in your book. Like, look in the mirror before you go to work. Are your clothes matching? Did you brush your hair? Why don't people do this?

They probably have been told these things. So by their parents, okay? Like you mentioned your dad or your mom. Whenever I mentor a young person, and it's something I do for friends, for fun, for nothing, for just for, you know, I don't charge them for it. It's like, I'd like to see you read the first 2 chapters of my book. So you'll see I struggled. It was a challenge getting started. I didn't hit it out of the park right out of the gate, but I got a process together. I started working. And so then I can talk to them. 9 times out of 10, what I'm telling them, Dad's already told them, but it's just coming from me, different source. I don't know what the psychology in that is at all, but yeah. So, but that's one of the things I always say in any of the speeches I give on that when I use that. Don't have time named after you. You know what I mean by that?

No.

Oh God.

Go on, go on.

You're on Lokum time.

Okay. Oh yeah.

Oh yeah. That's bad.

Oh God.

Okay. So give us another—

They name other things after us.

We want to know another mistake that you— what's a mistake you made behind the bar that you knew that day I'm never taking that into the business world or later on because you went through it back in the day. Now you never do it and it's been a core of the business or something like that.

Getting impatient with customers. I'm the 7th of 8 of a negative Irish Catholic family. I've been chipping away at negativism for 60+ years. Well, I worked very hard at it. I've come a long way.

Dom, are you listening to this one?

And so—

I'm just kidding.

And so it's, I meditate, I do yoga, I did, I was at Pilates this morning, I journal, I do all the things that we, in positive activity that we profess others to do. I have all the patience in the world for a customer.

And I just wanna give a caveat, Dom never gets impatient with customers. He just gets impatient with me 'cause I'm so annoying. No, but that is good. And it's really hard, especially when, People who come around and round, ask the same questions over and over. And is the customer always right, Neil? That is what everybody wants to know. Is the customer always right?

Yes.

Really?

But they can't be unreasonable.

Oh, okay.

That's my, that's what I say. You have to start from a point where they are. And if you remember the chapter on taking ownership when a business problem arises, that is when something goes wrong. There you go. When something goes wrong, start here. How could I have done better? The great bar story in that is the one— so Dennis Mayer, who's the— I changed all the names in there, but his, the real name is Dennis Mayer. We haven't seen it in 20 years.

Oh, you're, you're revealing some real juicy stuff here. Dennis Mayer.

I don't know if he's alive.

This could be, um, slanderous, a slanderous episode here.

No, he was, um, there's a, a woman came up to the bar and ordered a vodka martini extra dry. Now, of course, Dom, you know what that is. And so Dennis made her a vodka martini extra dry. Iced down the glass, put it in a mixing glass, put the booze in, get it, strained it over the ice. She takes a sip, puts a twist in there, takes a sip out of it. She goes, not dry enough. So Dennis walks by me and he says, I've been doing this 15 years. I didn't put a drop of vermouth in a martini yet. Right? But what does he do? He gets the— he ices down the glass again, ices down the up glass, pours the vodka so that's all she sees is going in there. Right? Not in her face, but so she can see it. Same thing, empties out that glass, strains it over ice, puts a twist in it, gives it to her. That's the one. Same drink.

Now, there you go, Neil.

So what did we learn here? He could have said the same thing to her he said to me. Listen, lady, I haven't put a drop of vermouth in the martini. Now everybody's involved. I'm listening to, you know, what's going on. Then the 14 customers that are around, the place is 3 deep. Now we're into it. And guess what? Nobody lost because he probably used the vodka in a vodka and tonic. 3 drinks later.

Neil's got his rules and rules and tips, bar tips, everything I needed to know in sales I learned behind the bar. Now we have Julie's rules here. We call it Jules' Rules. So we're going to do a quick segment. You can weigh in on this here, Neil.

But first, the pressure's on for me right now.

Pressure's on. We're in the holiday season here. Julie, do you have some gift giving rules as a mom, as an entrepreneur, rules for like how to give proper gifts during the holiday season.

It'll be interesting to hear what Neil has to say because he's the 7th out of 8 children and they probably just got an orange in their Christmas stocking and they were happy and dancing around the Christmas tree. But I have 4 sons and I go crazy because I go and buy them stuff and then I freak out because I want it all to be even and I stuff it in a closet. And then a couple days before Christmas I pull it out. I'm like, holy cow, what the heck did I do? They do not deserve all these gifts. So I don't keep track. I just buy and I don't— it's horrible. My kids are very lucky to have me as a mother, but this year I'm going to do things differently. I'm going to plan it out. I've actually made a list. I've been pretty good this year. And I am going to have a strict budget, $15 each for each child.

So Jules rules today, I guess.

You know, that's not true, right?

I'll paraphrase. So far we got budget and she's going to get more organized this year. Neil, do you have, from Bartending Tips or just being that great dad that you are, you got any holiday gift-giving tips for us?

Well, we've gone through this experience, so it's like things that we can do even at these ages. They still like to hang with us. So as long as they want to hang, we'll keep buying.

So, right. Then they come home. A new car. Cam's getting a new car.

Well, in D.C., you can't have one. We'll go. We still go places. I'm trying to get— I'm trying to get everybody to go to Ireland. Go see some—

We'll go. If you don't— if they don't want to go, your two adopted kids. How about you, Dom? What do you guys do for Christmas or the holidays?

We do it all. I mean, I just want to be around everybody all the time. Anywhere I can go, how much family time can I get? I'm in.

I like experiences. I like what you said, Neal, creating experiences. I don't think, at least my kids don't need anything at this point.

Speaking of children, when we were starting, when we were talking for a few minutes before, I was getting to know Neal, me and Julie were getting to know Neal and Very interesting guy. And you started— you referenced a word. I found out he's very positive. And you referenced underestimated. You brought up the subject of underestimated. And would you just touch on that for us? Because I'm fascinated. I almost was like, I'm all in on that. So would you just touch on that for a minute?

Sure. It has to do with my third— well, he's now 34— 34-year-old son with autism, apraxia. A non-speaker. And I stumbled over this book with a woman that I ride, I cycle with. And she's all excited about it, all jacked up. Hey Neil, have you, you've read Underestimated, haven't you? It's an autism miracle. Now, when you have 31 years in the autism business and who knows how many hundreds, certainly hundreds if not millions of dollars upside down on it, miracles you're not really, you're really interested in. So it sounds like a bad road, another disappointment, et cetera. So we bought, so anyways, we did get the book. We finally, I did buy the book outta respect. My wife even walked past it because of the autism miracle thing. But then a functional doctor, a holistic doctor, we, Lori had gone to see, said the second thing out of her mouth was, you've read Underestimated, haven't you? And she goes, no, but I'm gonna. So Underestimated is the journey of J.B. Hanley and his son Jamie. From in the spelling to communicate, which is the process that is highlighted in Underestimated. And spelling to communicate is where you take a 26-letter board, you are, that we read age-appropriate content to these guys and gals, and they answer questions. And what you'll find is that you'll find that your kids are brilliant and that they have lots to say and they have lots to do. If I, if this was down in our basement here, I'd scan the area and show you all of Craig's, Craig's goals. We've got goals now, right? So it's, if you have, if anybody out there in your audience land has got a non-speaker, someone that, that is limited or unreliable speech, it's worth a go. And then you can watch the movie on YouTube for free now, Spellers: The Movie. And it'll unlock, you know, it's not gonna, it's not gonna, it's not a cure, but it's going to get you closer to your child. We know now when he's got a toothache. Never knew. Never knew when he was sick. Never knew when he was tired. Never knew anything. And since then, we know everything. And he knows everything. So, but thank you for giving me that opportunity. That's a, it's a wonderful, the thought of another 8-year-old boy caught in his own mind makes me ill.

You are paving the way in so many ways. And I know that this book, Bar Tips, can be a guide to so much more than business, so much more than sales, so much more than marketing. It can be a guidebook to your life. And you are leading, you are a beacon for being an amazing parent. I know as a parent to 4 boys and Dom as a parent to a boy and a girl, it is the hard— that's the hard, really the hardest job that you'll ever have. As we wind this down, what are those tips beyond the bar that we need to know in life and in business that you take with you every single day that you cannot live without?

Be humble and kind.

I love that.

Be humble and kind. And as we wrap this up, we are so grateful for Neal Rogers, everybody. I want you to check out the book Bar Tips: Everything I Needed to Know in Sales I Learned Behind the Bar. He's got a few new books coming out. Check out the links. You're gonna love the book. You are gonna dog ear probably every other page. You are, I am sure, going to write in the book as zealously as I have. It's an amazing read, Neil. We really are obsessed with you. And as we leave, before, before I end the show, I wanna say please rate, review, and subscribe to the Creative Entrepreneur Podcast hosted by your favorite entrepreneurs, Dominick Domaski and me, Julie Loken. We're so grateful for you and everything you give back to us. And Neil, in honor of being from Boston, you are wicked amazing. I wanna leave you with this.

Can I just correct you there?

Yeah, you can. You can correct me, dad.

That would be wicked awesome.

You're wicked awesome, Neil. Neil Rogers. There once was a salesman named Neil whose bar lessons sharpened his zeal. And creative entrepreneur, he left Julian Domsturrd with wisdom you can pour, shake, and feel. Thank you guys. Until we meet again. Keep creating.

You wanna go where everybody knows your name.

Hi, this is your brain coach, Jim Kwik. I'm the author of the bestseller Limitless: Upgrade Your Brain, Learn Anything Faster, Unlock Your Exceptional Life. And I'm so excited to speak at CreativeCon this year, February in Chicago. Just think about it, in a world that's changing faster than ever, creativity isn't a luxury, it's a superpower. At CreativeCon, I'm gonna show you how to train the most important technology in the world, which is your brain, to think faster, learn deeper, focus better, unlock your genius that's already inside of you. So whether you're an artist, you're an entrepreneur, you're a creative innovator, your imagination is one of your greatest currencies, like it's true wealth. And you'll discover from me science-based tools to rewire your mind for creativity, productivity, and really limitless expression. Our session's not gonna be just a presentation. It's gonna be an activation because when you free your mind, you also free your art, your business, and your future. So I can't wait to see you there. It's creativecon.com and that's, you're taking the A and you're turning into an 8. So that's C-R-E-8-T-I-V-E con.com. And I can't wait to see you there. Until then. Remember to be limitless.

If you like the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening.