Healing With Fire: Zulma Williams on Trauma, Cancer, Depression & Finding Your Voice

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What's up, my good people? Welcome to the CJ Moneyway Show, where we build success brick by brick. Truth, grit, and growth. I'm your host, CJ Moneyway, and today we're cutting through the polite conversations and getting real about resistance. My guest, Zoomie, the Swear Therapist Williams, is a licensed clinical social worker, motivational speaker, and founder of Dragonfly Therapy Services. But you may know her as the Swear Therapist, a mental health expert who keeps it 100% real and isn't afraid to drop a F Palm in the name of healing. Trust me, we've been backstage. I already know he is the Swear Therapist. She laughing at that because I told her that I was gonna jack that name up. And when she told me the name, I said, you know what, I'ma say it just like that. And we've been laughing ever since. So from surviving breast cancer to rebuilding after trauma and depression, Zuma's story is about owning your scars, finding your voice, and discovering the warrior within. If you ever been through hell and wonder if you can make it out stronger, this episode is for you. Welcome to the show, The Swear Therapist. Hey, what's up, Zuma?

Thank you, CJ.

Such a—

I'm already having a lot of fun. We haven't even started.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me. See, you're getting there. We started with—

Thank you for joining me on the show today. Super, let me ask you, Origin and Grit, you call yourself the Swaren therapist. Where did that unfiltered voice come from, and why is being authentic so important in therapy and life?

Oh, absolutely. So it's just the way that I talk, and I don't see that is anything wrong with it. I will try to keep it as clean as as possible as being respectful of your show and your audience. But when we are talking about important stuff and it's like, oh, fudge, you know what I mean? So I just say the real word, right? Like, oh, sugar. No, I'm gonna say the other one, right?

Yeah.

So believe it or not, I'm a recovered people pleaser. And when I got diagnosed with breast cancer, I changed— that completely changed my life. And I started being as authentic as I could be. And part of that is that I express myself however I'm like, I'm telling you as I see it. It's just like, that is the way that I talk. And yesterday actually, I saw a clip from Gary Vee, the motivational speaker, and he said that he was told to be a speaker that he needed to drop the cursing and he needed to dress up. And now he is one of the top Right? Again, it's like you just, you continue to be true to yourself and then, you know, you're gonna find your place. And I understand I'm not for everybody and that's fine. So if you reach out to me through my website, I do a consultation call and the F word, the S word is gonna come out of my mouth. So it's like, if you're not comfortable with that, that's fine. I will give you referrals, but I'm not gonna see it in my own office. In the therapy practice that I created and be like, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm. Like, it's just not. Life is too short.

Yeah, I like that because I just did a podcast the other day where I went on somebody else's podcast. You know, they wanted to know about how did I start my podcast. And one thing that he asked me was, you know, like, how do you keep doing what you're doing? And I said the same thing that you just said. Basically, you just got to be yourself. You know, you got to— I can't be nobody else. Like you were saying with Gary Vee, can't be nobody else. If God gave you something to move forward with and a vision to move on with, then do it the way that you saw it and not how somebody else see it or how people think that you should portray yourself.

And you are the only one who can do it that way, right? Like, we have probably the same message, but the way that we are delivering it, like, I'll do it my way and I get the message that particular way, and you might do it in a different manner. But the important thing is that we are giving that message to the world, right? Like, so it's like that we are inspiring people and encouraging them to be themselves. Everybody else is taken. Number one. And number two is like, if I try— like, okay, so you told me, oh my God, I love your dress. And then the next person is like, you, you're wearing the dress. And the other— like, how are you going to please everybody?

Okay, you can't.

Okay, so guess what? I look in the mirror, I happen to like how the dress looks on me, I wear it, right? Like, because there's gonna be— opinions are like buttholes.

I need the swearing therapist on that. Opinions is like— go ahead, they kind of work.

Okay, so opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one and they stink, right?

Like Yeah, you ain't gotta say fudge on that one. I'm pretty sure people heard the word ass before. And so, uh, so, so, so, see, I told y'all, you started your social work degree at the age of 42, survived breast cancer at 46, and earned your master's at the big 5-0, 50. Man, something about that 4-year period, huh? What kept you pushing forward when most people would've quit?

When I first received the diagnosis, so I started my Bachelor of Social Work at 42 because I was working accounting and I started reflecting on my future. I'm like, eh, I'm not sure I want to keep doing this for another 25 years. And I really have a passion for helping people. So I was like, okay, I'll do my bachelor with the idea of having the master's and becoming a clinical therapist, a clinical social worker. So I graduated, 6 weeks later I get diagnosed with breast cancer. So it hit me like a ton of bricks, of course. And I started asking, why me? And then I started changing. So I don't have children, but my mom was still alive at that time. So I had my mom, I had my sister, I have nieces, I have girlfriends. And it was like, if it's not me, would I prefer that they had the cancer? And the answer is no. So I changed the question from why me, which is a victim mentality, to why not me? And once I'm in the why not me with this diagnosis, I have a decision to make. I can sit in the corner and wait to die, or I can stand up and fight. Spoiler alert, 13 years and counting, right? I'm winning the fight so far. But the thing is that Nobody would have blamed me if I gave up on going to school or whatever, like, oh, I had cancer. But I had cancer, cancer didn't have me.

Mm-hmm.

So I started getting better and I was feeling better. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go for my master's. And it just happened that I was 50. I just turned 60 this year. You're gonna be 50 or 60 or 70 or 40, with a degree or without the degree. Time doesn't wait for nobody.

Nobody. Nobody.

So what the thing that kept me going was, let's say that social work doesn't work out, being a therapist doesn't work out, whatever, I can always go back to accounting. But I had the satisfaction that at least I tried it. I'm not like thinking like, oh, what if I would have gone to school at 50. Like, I'm 60 now. 10 years went by. So I'm glad that I did it at 50 because now I can barely get out of bed.

You know what I mean? Especially in that high heat down there.

Right. So I live in Vegas like that. So when people tell me, oh, I'm too old to go back to school, hmm, you're barking at the wrong tree because I started at 42. I started at 50. And English is not my first language. What's your fucking excuse?

She's like, what's your fudging excuse?

I got you, I'm with you, I'm with you. So the thing is that what are you passionate about and just follow that, right? Like you were saying at the beginning, like that is the gift that God gave you. Only you can do it that way. So kind of like not giving your gift away is being selfish. Because I— there are a ton of therapists out there, but I'm the Suaré therapist.

Yeah, there's none like you, that's for sure.

There is like— so, and you know what, that's fine with me, because the people— so again, like, I'm not everybody's cup of tea, but the people that I connect with I connect with. We are going to hit the ground running. Life is too short. We don't have time.

Yeah.

So I'm passionate about helping people and I'm passionate about not allowing cancer to define who I am. Cancer is a part of my story, but it's not my entire story.

I hear you. I hear you. So let me ask you, Ms. Williams, the swan therapist.

Ms. Williams, shame on you.

Say Zumba.

You are taking the easy way out. Oh, Miss Williams!

I did take the easy way out. I took the simple route on that one. So, blue, zuma, see, um, what drove you, or what's your passion behind wanting to help others? You know, considering what you've been through, what you've dealt with, what's your drive to want to help others? You know, when you could just pack it up and just go about your business to Panama or wherever, you know. What drives you to do what you do?

To help people understand that they don't have to do it alone. Simply because you can take a punch doesn't mean that you live in the ring, right? I mean, like, we all go through stuff, but it's like, you don't have to do this alone. I didn't do it alone. I had a great therapist, bless her heart. Like, if I can be 1% of the therapist she was to me, to my clients, Mission accomplished. Like, therapy is so hard, but living life as is is hard. Choose your heart, right? Like, so staying in the relationship is hard and divorcing is hard. Choose your heart. Quitting this job is hard and staying in this job is hard. Choose your heart, right? It's like we are always making choices, and where are we in those choices that we're making? Because usually we put ourselves last. Right? And then it's like, oh, I'm tired, I'm depressed, I'm anxious, I'm depleted. Yes, because you cannot give from an empty vessel. So helping people understand that— can you do it on your own? Of course. But why? You don't have to. And I'm not the one doing the work. You are. So I'll give you suggestions. But if you don't do it, you're not going to get better. Like, you know, is it like— so I go to my therapist and when I tell my clients like, oh, because my therapist said, and they're like, You go to trauma. I'm like, yeah, I'm human too.

Like, don't talk about me.

The last thing I talk with my therapist is about your ass.

You know what I mean?

Like, I have my own stuff to talk. So my therapist is like, well, you know, have you thought about blah, blah, blah? And that is the stuff that I tell my clients. And she's— and I'm like, oh my God, like, that is what I tell my clients all the time. But when you are in the picture, you cannot see the picture.

Mm. Yeah, that's true.

So my job as a therapist is to provide you with a different perspective to the stuff that you are telling me. I only work with what you bring to my office, right? So it's like, oh, have you considered blah, blah, blah? Because I'm seeing the entire situation. But when you're like, have you ever looked at a picture and you're like, ooh, who's that? Right? It's like, don't you have a mirror? But when you are taking the picture, it's different.

Yeah.

Right? And you don't recognize that person. So it's like, I mean, like, you are so in the situation that how can you have a neutral perspective about it? And it's like, and your friends— well, I have friends. Good for you. Keep enjoying your friends. But your friends are going to be unconditionally on your side. And that's not what you might need to hear, right?

Yeah.

Oh, he cheated on me. And why do you keep attracting this type of partners? So you can be accountable and do better next time.

Yeah, because you are the common denominator. You know what I'm saying? If you went through this relationship, that relationship, this relationship, I had to—

about time to look in the mirror and say like, okay, yeah, Peter, Mark, and, and John have in common.

Yeah, let me ask you, you know, perfectly without overthinking it. I'm getting that tongue attack. Uh, so, um, you said something earlier, it made me think about The Sopranos. Tony Soprano was going to a therapist and the therapist was going to a therapist. So let me ask you this, you know, because this first time that I've been able to ask a this question. When you talk to your clients, and you, like you said, you tell them that I talked to my therapist about you. How do people come off when they realize that their therapist actually talks to another therapist? How does that work? Or what do they mindset become when they hear that?

They're very surprised. I was like, oh, you go— like, it's kind of like nobody asks a doctor if they go to the doctor.

That's true.

Right? I mean, the surgeon is not going to operate on himself.

Yeah, that's true.

So they get very surprised, but I think that that is very— it brings me down, if you would, to a human level where it's like, oh, you have stuff too. I barely know what the fuck to do with my life, let alone telling you what to do with yours. You know what I mean? Like, we are going to find the answers together. But it's not like I have all the answers. Simply because I'm not in the picture, I can provide you with a different perspective. But that doesn't mean I'm telling you the truth as I see it, not necessarily the truth, right? So when I say like, oh, CJ, have you considered blah, blah, blah? This is what I'm seeing, right? We can agree to disagree because you're like, no, you're way off, blah, blah, blah. Perfect. But have you considered that, right? It's not like I'm telling the truth. I'm just sharing with you what I consider the truth from my perspective. But I think we are, right?

Like, so, so you technically just taking what I give you and assessing it and giving it back to me. And like you were saying earlier, you know, you can have friends and things of that nature, but sometimes we want people to be in our corner just to agree with us even if we're wrong, right?

So how is that helping you, right? That doesn't help you. So I'm not here to be your friend. And I'm not here to win the popularity contest. Like, if you are not ready to work on yourself, I'm not the therapist for you. And you're going to find out really quick because I'll give you homework. So let's say that you have anxiety. We talk about grounding techniques, blah, blah, blah. I'll give you homework to practice the breathing, grounding techniques, all that. And then you go and then you come back and then you didn't do it. Guess what the homework is going to be this week? The same homework because you didn't do it.

Yes, I agree.

So how do you know if it works if you don't try it, right? Now, if you told me that I try it and it doesn't work, perfect, we try something else. But if you didn't even try it, you are the one with the anxiety. Like, I'll do the grounding techniques when I'm anxious, right? Like, so, because that's my homework with my therapist.

Yeah.

So, like, if you are not ready Eventually we are going to part ways because you're like, oh, this is a lot of work. It is. But you know what? It's not easy. Therapy is not easy, but it's worth it because it is you that we are talking about. This is your life to improve. Okay, so I don't see you. I close my eyes. CJ is not here. At a certain point, I had to open my eyes and see the reality.

Yeah, that I am.

So as we were saying, like, 2 minutes ago, like, okay, so John, Mark, Peter, why do I keep running in this type of man? Why do I keep attracting those type of relationships? So it's like, now I have to be accountable, and start looking at what is good for me, not so much what necessarily I'm attracted to, right? So it's like, is this good for me? So, okay, so we all love a burger and fries. That doesn't mean that it's good for you.

Definitely not for me, and I love me a good bacon cheeseburger. I just can't eat a regular burger no more.

So that doesn't mean that it's good for you. So if you keep eating that, when you go to the cardiologist, you're gonna have a very interesting session. Right? So, and it's like, okay, well, I don't want to have a heart attack. Well, then maybe you should go down to once a week instead of every day.

Yeah. Right?

For the cheeseburger. Because it's like, so we had to make those decisions. But do you want to get better?

And I get you. Even in that aspect, like even with therapy, either I could take the advice that the doctor giving me, telling me to cut down on 3 bacon cheeseburgers a week, or I can keep doing it and just live with the consequences and the consequences I already know I don't want to live with them. But yet and still, this is what I still do. I don't want Mark, John, or Junior, but this is what I keep getting though.

So, I love this saying, there are people who create their own storm and then complain when it rains.

Mm, yeah.

Don't be crying about the heart attack when you already knew what to do to prevent it, right? Like, I mean, it doesn't mean that it's guaranteed you're not going to have a heart attack, but you have a lot more chances of not having one if you exercise, eat healthy, right? Like, so it's like, okay, like, I mean, we have free will, but what do we do with that? Because this is your life. I cannot want this more than you do. Like, this is your work to do. So it's like, I always say, like, therapy is like we are in the You are the driver and I'm the copilot. I'll give you suggestions, but if you don't turn the ignition, we're not going anywhere. I cannot drive for you because next time you need to go somewhere, you're gonna need me to drive you, right? Like, you want to hang a picture, I'll show you what a hammer is, I'll show you what nails are, and I'll show you how to use it, but you have to hang the picture because if I'll do it for you Next time you need to hang a picture, you're gonna need me. My job is to get you out of my office as soon as you walk in. That means that you have the tools, right? Like, you can use those tools. Now, simply because you know what a hammer is for doesn't mean that you carry it in your purse or your pocket. You keep it in the garage and you use it when you need it. No, I want to put the nail with my hand. Okay, like, make yourself bleed. Like, you want to do it the hard way? Be my guest.

Say, knock yourself out.

And it's done.

Like, okay, yeah, whatever.

Your ball, you know what I mean? Like, so, but if you want to get better, I'm going to be with you every step of the way, but I cannot do it for you, and I cannot want it for you. Like, you know, we all have friends that, oh my God, we want them to do better, and, and we see the potential, and If the friend doesn't want to get better, the friend is not going to get better.

Yeah, yeah. I can't put it inside of you, you know what I'm saying? That's one thing I say about my little 15-year-old son. He play basketball. I can teach you how to play this, but one thing I can't give you, I can't give you the heart. You got to have to want it and do it and put in the work yourself. That's on you, you know what I'm saying? Although my days are over with playing ball or whatever, but I still have knowledge of it that I can share, but it's up to you to put in the work. So I see it as the same way. As the Swain therapist give it to you, she give it to you rough and raw.

I give it to you real, right?

Like 100%.

You want to feel that it's rough, that's on you.

I'm not owning that. So, so, uh, Zuma, let me ask you, growing up in Argentina, what cultural or personal lesson shaped your strength and independence?

Growing up in Argentina as a woman, as a girl, I'm the baby in my family. I have an older brother who's 10 years older than me. I have an older sister who is 7 years older than me. And it's like, I didn't have a voice. Like, you, you're supposed to be home and popping babies and cooking and cleaning. And I came to America at 31, and I understand a lot of what the Hispanic culture in general— so I'm from Argentina, but there's something that runs all throughout South America, where it's like the man is the one who decides. And, you know, like, whatever my brother said went for my mom and my dad, right? Because he was the firstborn and he's a man, right? It's just like— so when I moved here and I got my degree and I was talking to my dad, and he's like, oh, I'm gonna listen because you are a doctor. I told him 3 million times I'm not a doctor, but But he listened to me because I was— I had a degree, not because what I was saying makes sense. I'm like, for whatever reason that you're listening to me, I'll take it. But without the degree, it was like, oh, what I had to say is like, it has no value. So hopefully things are changing. I haven't been there in a long time, but hopefully things are changing for my nieces and for my great needs. And, you know, because it's like we as women have a lot to contribute, but it's like over there we are working so hard to survive. So it's like you get your independence taken from you because it's like I spend 8 hours, 9 hours at a job and I had to ride the bus for 2 hours to get there. So it's like 13 hours we're talking. Like, I'm exhausted by the time I get home, right? Because not everybody has a car like in here. So, and it's like, oh, You're a woman, like, so, you know, and it's like, it's so hard because when I moved here, I was 31 when I moved to America, and I realized that, oh, I can use my voice because I always had a voice, but it was silenced over there. And it's like, oh, like, people are listening to what I'm saying. And especially in school, being an older student, I always participated. I can bring the cultural aspect to what we are reading in the textbook, because I'm like, yeah, I am that Latina that you've been discriminating against, right? So it's like, I can tell you my experience about being discriminated. I don't need to read it in the book.

Yeah.

So it's like, to bring that, right, to bring that personal experience, I can connect and identify with what a lot of Hispanic women who come to my practice are dealing with, because it's like Even with my own therapist many years ago, I was in an abusive relationship with an Argentinian man here, and she's white, and I will tell her things, and she'd be like, "Why? Blah, blah, blah." I'm like, "What you mean why?" Like, it was so cultural that I didn't even see anything wrong. That's how we do it. And him being from Argentina too, it's like, you are so blindsided because it's like, oh, like shut up and do kind of thing. And she brought that perspective and I was like, what the fuck is she talking about?

What the freaking freak?

What the freaking freak is she talking about? Because it was like, what you mean? Like why blah blah blah. That's the way that is done. So just being in a different country, coming from a different country, it provides a completely different perspective. To everything, everything. So it's like, I encourage people to travel as much as they can because like being in a different culture helps you understand that not everywhere is like here in America.

Everything I decide—

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Music style.

Music store.

So let me ask you, Zuma. Yeah, look at you. I just get stuck on stuff. That's my mind. Hey, since you was talking about abuse and things of that name, let me ask you this. You faced abuse, depression, and suicidal thoughts, yet you never call yourself a victim. How did you transform pain into purpose?

I think that victimhood is a mindset. I was being abused and I didn't know I was being abused because to me, abuse was physical, like, yo, you beat the crap out of me and send me to the hospital. The type of abuse that I experienced was emotional, verbal, and sexual. So it was like, oh, because my therapist told me like, oh, you're being— because I was like, I don't know why I'm so depressed and, you know, I don't want to live anymore. She's like, you're being abused. I'm like, oh no, you're mistaken, he doesn't touch me, right? Being in, in that situation, it's like, oh. So once I started learning more about who I am and what can I do, I'm Okay, I think that God put us through stuff, and we can either succumb to that or we can learn and do better. And as you were saying, like, I know a lot about playing ball, so I might not be playing as much right now, but I can teach you stuff. I can— why do we need to reinvent the wheel? Like, okay, like, listen to the people who's been through it, right? Like, so I took that into my purpose of like I will bring awareness into the community about what verbal abuse is because I consider myself an intelligent woman, but I was ignorant about what verbal abuse and emotional abuse was. So it's like, I think that the why me to why not me, right, uh, mentality where it's like, okay, so I've been dealt these cards, what I'm gonna do? I can sit in the corner and cry, or I can stand up and fight. Which person do I want to be? And this is for me. This is like between me, myself, and God. This is not to show off to nobody. Like, most people don't know. Well, now they do because I'm doing podcasts, but most people don't know that I survived cancer. Like, you see me at Walmart, it's like I'm just like any other Walmart shopper. Right? So, but we start talking and it's like, oh, or that I went to school later in life, or that I started my practice at 54. I became independently licensed. So don't tell me that it's too late because that is your mindset. Do you want to go to school? Well, yeah. Okay, go and enroll. That's what I did. So don't tell me it cannot be done because I done it.

Mm-hmm.

Right. So it's like to pave the way from experience. When you lead by experience, it's a different type of leadership because it's not like I'm, oh, poor CJ, he has anxiety or he has depression or no, no, I have all those things. So let me show you what works that will work for me that might not work for you, but I guarantee you it's worth a try.

Yeah, I like it.

And if it doesn't work out for you, we're going to find the answers together.

You know, one of the reasons I like that concept is because I can show you better than I can tell you. And I'm not telling you something that I heard from somebody else that I got from another client. I'm telling you some stuff that I've experienced myself, even some things, as you just said, that I'm going through myself. And so like you said earlier in the podcast, where you say we're going to get through this together. You know, we're gonna figure this out together.

We're gonna find the answers together because I don't have the answers. But we can even ask, figure it out, the question together, right? And then we're gonna find the answers together. Like, if I had the answers, I wouldn't be a therapist. I'd be on the street making a lot of money. You know what I mean? Like, keep it at 100.

She's saying I'm a lot of money. Real. So, but let me ask you, you founded Dragonfly Therapy Services. What does the dragonfly symbolize to you and how does it connect to transformation?

Absolutely. So dragonflies, they fly on the surface of the water and they eat all the bacteria so the light can come in. So dragonflies symbolize the change that comes from the inside.

Mm.

So it's like, it's you working on yourself to make yourself better. That's why I love that symbolism for the dragonflies, it's like they have a purpose into like flying on top of the water. So it's like, okay, do you want to keep on the surface or you want to go inside and let the light in, right? And when you have the light, when you allow that light to shine from the inside, it cannot be dimmed.

Oh man, me and my mother was just talking about that scripture the other day. A light on the hill cannot be hidden, you know what I'm saying? I know it was in Matthew, I forgot how it actually go quote for quote, Yes. And it all starts from the inside, you know what I'm saying? Like, we try to do things because we look good on the outside and everything. Like you were saying earlier, you say, you know, you was being verbally abused but didn't know it. And so sometimes things seem fine and everything, you know, it's not an issue because on the outside we look good. But on the inside though, man, I'm messed up all on the inside. Or I can portray myself to be this person or this person in front of people, but then when I get by myself, I'm all torn up, you know what I'm saying? Because I'm trying to hide my far as from everybody else. But like you said earlier too, it's me.

Yes.

And God.

And one of the things that saved me was myself and God. Yes. Absolutely. One of the things that saved me, which I didn't realize at the time, but looking back, was my work ethic. Because like, I was never going to kill myself, but I was asking God to take me in my sleep, right? Like, so I don't want to wake up tomorrow, but I woke up tomorrow, so I had to get up and go to work. So one of the things that saved me was my work ethic, because although I was like, I didn't want to leave, I still have a job to do, right? And that was in therapy, like, this is many years ago. And I got that from my dad. My dad never had like days off or vacation or sick time, like, you know, like And I was like, wow, that work ethic that was instilled in me by example. My dad didn't even told me you need to work hard. He showed me that he worked hard, right? That was like, oh, that's what kept me going because nobody knew at work what I was going through. And I was exhausted because you are keeping that facade that everything is okay. Right? Like nobody knew at work what I was living. And it was like, and then you're like, oh my God, I'm so tired. Right? Because you are not being authentic. Right? So the thing is that you owe it to yourself to look in the mirror and say, I'm going to fight for you. Because if I didn't do it, who was going to do it? You know, and like, I kind of like guilt-tripped myself at that time that I didn't want my mom to cause that type of pain to my mom, to— for her to know that I killed myself. So I kept— that kept me going too. So now what I realize, and I'm so happy I didn't kill myself, what I realized is that I didn't want to die. I was tired. I was tired of the pain. So right now, if anybody listening, please take care of your health. And if you are having these suicidal thoughts, seek help. Go to the nearest ER or call 911 or talk to a therapist. But in my experience, 8 out of 10 times when I ask a client who says that they don't want to live anymore, I'm like, do you want to die? Are you tired of the pain? 8 out of 10 times is I'm tired of the pain. When you are tired, you need to rest. You don't need to—

Yeah, and I'm with you.

So, but we have this black and white world. So it's like, if I have pain and I don't want to feel it, then I might die. No, there are other ways to process that pain. That will end up making you stronger. So anybody listening, just keep going one hour at a time if one day is too long. And if one hour is too long, 15 minutes at a time. And then rinse and repeat, because 4 of those make 1 hour, and 24 of those make 1 day, and 7 of those— like, how do you graduate? From school, 3 credits at a time. How do you get those 3 credits? One paper at a time. How do you do that paper? One paragraph at a time. How do you do a paragraph? One sentence at a time. Everything can be broken down into pieces. How many episodes do you have on your podcast? How did you do it? One episode at a time.

Build it brick by brick.

Exactly. Brick by brick. Exactly. So whatever we are confronting right now, if we can break it down into manageable pieces, then it's gonna get done. Not immediately, not how I want it. I want it already done, but it's gonna get done. So if you're tired of the pain, rest. But don't give up on you.

Yeah, because I'm dealing with pain every day. My shoulder, oh my goodness. But I don't want to die, you know, but I don't want be there, you know. And it always seemed like it happened even more, somewhere on my off days. When I get ready to have my off day, that's when the pain started coming. I got podcast episodes to do, I got stuff to do, I'm hurting, still trying to fight through. So I know exactly what you're talking about, because as you said earlier, because I'm experiencing it myself, you know what I'm saying. But what nobody know, just looking at me like, oh, don't look like you wrong with it, trust and believe. Like, like I was at work the other day, so Somebody say, I was holding my shoulder because I got deep shoulder pain up here. He said, "Man, ain't nothing wrong with you." I said, "I wish it was." I'm not telling you I'm hurting because I'm not hurting. You know what I'm saying? This is something I deal with every day that y'all don't even know because I don't display myself like that. It is what it is. Something that I deal with and I move forward with it. But trust me and believe, when I'm by myself, like when I get through with you, I'm putting on my heating pad. I'm an old man, Zumba. I'm telling you, boy, I'm telling you. So let me ask you, let me ask you some legacy and purpose as we get ready to wind down. You've rebuilt your life. I don't want to wind down.

I'm having a lot of fun.

You've rebuilt your life multiple times across countries, relationships, and health battles. What's your personal definition of freedom today?

Being able to make my own decisions and be okay with them. I've been through so much, and I respond to myself and God, of course. But it's like, you like me, fine. You don't like me, fine too. Either way, I'm gonna sleep tonight.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So like, if people understand my decisions, great, or agree with them, great. If they don't, that's fine too. Like, you know, like, so my definition of freedom right now is to be able to be myself and show myself to the world as I am. That is my true freedom, being so authentic. And you might not like I mean, again, like, that's fine. Like, I'm still gonna sleep tonight.

Wait a minute, you gotta give me something. When somebody don't like you or somebody don't care about you and you don't care, you gotta give me the 100%, the swear therapist, how you really feel about that. Like, if somebody don't like me, I don't give a fucking freak, freak, freak. Come on, give it to me. Tell me, tell me.

I'll give it to you. Listen, I live 60 years without your ass. I can live another 60 without you.

You can kiss my— it's 3 letters. Yes. And one starts with an A.

And the other one is the same consonant twice.

Exactly. And we would say that that's part— I think the ABCD, man, I gotta take my alphabet. You got me early. You was right here dropping nuggets on us, uh, last segment. You were dropping all these nuggets on us. I'm like, look at this swag. The therapist dropping all these nuggets on her. And so it starts with two, it starts with an S. That's the concept. So let me ask you, how has surviving cancer changed your relationship with your body, your mind, and your mission?

Wow. So it grounded me and humbled me into, helped me reprioritize what was important. Because I was so caught up with, oh, do I gain a pound? Or like, how does my body look? Or— and I'm so glad to be alive, although my breasts might look differently because they have a lumpectomy, right? Like, so they are not the same size. Okay, like, you know what, I rather have different size breasts than be dead. So it's like it helped me reprioritize what is important, and I bring that into my everyday life. And I get caught up with the stupid shit, but it's like, then it's like, bitch, you survived cancer. Like, why is this taking you, like, getting you off center? Like, if you survive cancer, why are you worried about this, right? Like, so it's like it completely changed my perspective. So I'm living my life with trying to be as grounded as possible and understanding what is truly important, reminding myself what is truly important.

You put me in a mind, I just interviewed a guy, his name Steve Larson, sent me a book. He lost a son, I think son was 2 years old, 2 months old, at an early age. And so as you were saying, I've been through this and I've been through that, so if I dealt with that, how can I not deal with this? And so that's one thing that he talks about in his book, that dealing with the loss of a child— say, he said, you know, he was in the interview— not, not an interview, but getting, um, evaluated, getting the evaluation one day. And, you know, been there for so long and always did stellar work, but then this particular interview, he got a bad review. And he said he walked out, Zuma. He said he walked out and he felt so refreshed. Said, you know what, he thought he was hurting me. He said, but going through what I went through, nothing, nothing can hurt me because I've been hurt as much as I can be hurt. You know what I'm saying? So when you said that about that, that made me think about that. You know, there's some things that we have been through in life, like, you know what, your opinion really don't matter. Her opinion really don't matter. It's a song, Flippa Tee. Shout out to Flippa Tee. Say, I ain't got time for your shit, I really don't, you know what I'm saying? That's just the bottom line because I gotta worry about my own itch. Uh, so let me ask you before we go anywhere else, before I ask you this last question, where can we find your podcast? What is your podcast about? And where can we find you on social media so we can keep up with the Swearing Therapist.

Yes, so my podcast is Keeping It Real with Zulma, the Swearing Therapist. You can find it on Spotify, Apple, like anywhere that you listen to your podcast. And you can follow me on Instagram at theswearingtherapist. My website is dragonflytherapyservices.net. And my podcast is about keeping it real. Sometimes I talk about mental health or I do an educational episode, but most of the time it's about what am I dealing with today, right? Like, so, uh, and you know, I reflect, I use what I'm going through in my life to kind of like help other people. They say, oh yeah, I connect with that because it's like, yeah, listen, you're not special. Like, I'm not special. We all go through stuff. Stuff. And we are figuring it out as we go. But again, no need to reinvent the wheel. If you can take a deep breath and describe, use a few grounding techniques and that works for you, why not? Like, no, I'm gonna do it my way. You know what, you show me how to do it and I'll do it. Like, a lot of times when I'm learning something and other people like videos, so why is that? I I don't ask why. It works. Like, it makes sense in my head. Like, so it's like, I don't need to know why. Like, why complicate your life? You know? Like, it's like, it works. Like, so if I'm saying something like, I recently moved from the house I was renting, and it's like, okay, like, I had boxes coming out of my behind. Okay, so I'm like, I don't even know where I have anything. And I'm sharing that on my episode because it's like, yeah, you know what? Moving is so on the scale of what the stressful events in life, number 1 is the death of a parent, number 2 is divorce, and number 3 is moving. So it's like you are right there with your parents dying and you getting divorced. Like, so I'm going to share how I'm dealing and how how humbling that experience is because, oh, I have it all figured out. I don't. Again, I'm figuring it out with you. Like, so I want to inspire you into understanding that you figured it out before. Whatever challenges you've been through could not take you out. How do I know? Because you're here. So why is this challenge different? Than all those challenges that you already dealt with. It's like, you got this. So yes, please listen to my podcast. There's a lot of swearing. So this is like, I only say 3 or 4 bad words. Like, mine is like every other word is like— no children in the car, okay? All of them are explicit.

Hey, and be sure to check me out on Keeping It Real with Zuma, the Swear Therapist. And I'm gonna try to keep it— I'm gonna try to keep my words minimal, but if she said I can let loose, I may have a few words. I just may have. But, uh, I try to watch my tongue nowadays. So, Zuma, let me ask you last question. I really enjoyed you all here today. I really have. So What's next for the Swearing Therapist? And what message do you want the world to remember long after they hear this episode?

Next is the Swearing Therapist is relocating to Panama in December.

Panama!

I'm not sure when the episode is airing, but I'm relocating to Panama in December, and I will continue to work with my clients in the United States and transitioning my practice to fully virtual so I can work from there. And the message that I want people to remember is if you have a 100% track record of being successful at every challenge that you confronted in your life, so keep putting one foot in front of the other and you're going to come on the other side of the challenge that you're currently facing. And remember that at the time that you were facing those challenges, you didn't have all the answers. But you just kept moving forward. So that's all what it takes, one foot in front of the other. As far as you don't get stuck, you're going to come out on the other side. It's not about not falling, it's about not remaining on the ground. You fall 7 times, you get up 8.

Mm, I like it.

Just rinse and repeat. I'll see you all in Panama.

I like it. Rest and repeat. And remember, if you heard nothing else from the Swen Therapist today, she said continue to put one foot in front of the other. She said earlier, 15 minutes, 4 15 minutes is 1 hour. If you can't do 4 15 minutes, then you take 7. Like I said, she was dropping some nuggets on— she said, then you take 7, then you multiply it by 4, then you multiply that by 15, and then you multiply that by 25, and then that's where you come come up with this. How have you come up with 365 days? So 365 days, you put one foot in front of the other. Hey, so Zuma, the Swear Therapist Williams, just reminded us that healing isn't about perfection, it's about power. Her story proves that you can survive the storm, rebuild the house, and still cuss out the thunder on your way to peace. If today's episode sparked your courage, share with someone who needs to be reminded that survival is strength and being authentic is freedom. Big thanks to our partners Believe Network, PodMatch, and Optimist Clips for keeping the real stories alive. I'm your host CJ Moneyway, and this is what it means to build brick by brick. Hey, until the next time, this your boy CJ Moneyway with my new friend Zulu the Swag. Therapists. Until next time, we out of here. Peace.

You've been listening to the CJ Moneyway Show. Real stories, real lessons, yeah, and real perspective come together.

Remember, move with patience, move with purpose.

That is the mindset of a Panther. Until next time, keep building your legacy brick by brick by brick by brick. Music style.