Catch-up with the Apprentice | SOURCE

Hey guys, baby, welcome to The Source Podcast, all things working dogs. I'll be your host today, Simon, head trainer, coming to you live from G1 Custom K9. And I got my co-guest host, Kren. Say hi, Kren.

What's up, everybody? It's good to be back.

Friend of the podcast, obviously. And we got a special podcast. We're checking in with Keeley on her journey to become a K9 trainer and how she's doing during her apprenticeship. She's hit about 6 months now, right, Keeley?

Something like that. Yeah, going on 8.

Going on 8. You got a couple of, uh, K9 courses under your belt too.

Yeah.

Yep, I was out in Japan and I left you all on your lonesome. How'd those go?

Uh, at first it was a little shaky, um, but I kind of had to like trust the process and kind of build my own confidence and realize I do know what I'm doing and I know how to instruct people. I know what to do and just kind of being able to just get myself out there and like guide them along and being able to teach them and Things like that.

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's kind of been the theme of your apprenticeship is building a little bit of confidence, right? I'm not just trying to build a trainer, I'm trying to build an overall strong person, right? Yeah. And, you know, sometimes we just got to put ourselves out there.

It's been a difficult one. Still, even now, even in this course, I found parts where I'm like, I don't really know how to approach that or how to, you know, speak up and say something. But especially with you pushing me to say something even earlier today, you know, just having that confidence and realizing I know what I'm talking about to be able to correct somebody.

Speaking on confidence, how important would you say that being confident as a person, like in and of itself, how important would that play in talking to law enforcement, veterans, people out here that, that are a working professional in a field that, that maybe you know something about or maybe you don't. How does that— how do you, how do you build that confidence?

Uh, I think repetition is a big one. Um, you know, you might try and correct someone and, you know, you might fail, you might get questioned on it, but if you keep doing it and you keep you know, realizing like you're guiding them in the right direction. Um, I think it just builds over time. And I don't— I feel like a lot of people might call bullshit in certain aspects, but if you, if you like hold yourself in a certain way and you counteract what they're saying, then I think they're like, okay, maybe she does know what she's talking about.

Yeah, yeah.

And that's kind of, uh, some of the struggles that even seasoned trainers deal with as instructors. A lot of times you get, you know, there's, there's a lot of information out there on K-9 training and a lot of our training and the techniques and the methods that we use, we use because we have the experience from it. And a lot of the times when people come in for handler courses or trainer courses, it's their first time being around these K-9s. And they don't have a real good idea of what that finished product looks like. And sometimes they, they don't understand all the methodology that goes into creating that finished product. But you'll see over time, and as you see your dog progress through those stages and they observe those marked improvements from that canine, they'll start to pick it up there. So some people are visual learners, some people learn better by asking questions, but you know, that's another aspect you got to take into account when being an instructor.

Keely, I can't tell you how many times I've had to tell a student that's getting frustrated in training, trust the process, you know, and you kind of touched on that about something that you had to do in trusting the process. You know, and we got to, we got to be able to, to speak that into these handlers and trainer students that are also learning, hey, you're going to have to trust the process too. Do you feel like where you're at in your journey with in the field of K-9, do you feel like that you're kind of on the same level as some of these students that are coming in? Or do you feel like, you know, you are, you're at a place where you are like being able to oversee them a little bit. And because you know the big picture, you know the process well enough to where you can tell somebody, hey, you know, I don't have time to tell you every step of what we're doing. You're just going to have to trust the process, trust that, that what I'm instructing you to do is right. Do you feel like you can say that yet, or is that something that you're still building?

I think it's something that I'm still building. Um, for people who like come in brand new, they don't know anything about, you know, canine training or being a handler, I think for them that's when I feel I can oversee them and instruct them and guide them. But for people who have experience, I find it a little bit more difficult because they have more questions.

So reflecting on your past 6 months, tell me what's been the most rewarding, or tell me about some of the most rewarding moments that you've had during your apprenticeship.

Uh, most rewarding, I know when I first got here, um, finishing a dog completely on obedience and just seeing him walk with a bunch of other people perfectly fine, I think that was pretty rewarding. The most recent one, um, would be the first two students that I had Seeing them start with nothing about being a handler and then end with having more knowledge and completing CERT and going to their own departments and being successful there. That was a pretty big one.

Have you, have you experienced any obstacles in your apprenticeship? Well, we'll say in the, in the instructor phase, you know, now that you're instructing more, have you experienced any obstacles and can you speak on that and maybe tell us how you overcame those things or anything like that? It's been smooth sailing, huh? No obstacles. I was going to call you a liar. Oh no, man, it's been great the whole time.

Um, probably the most recent one. Um, there was a lot of like little minor things that I didn't completely know how to solve. There was a lot of brainstorming that I had to go through with me and Brandon. We would always talk about it and try to find new ways. But I think just trying to get the students to understand that, you know, it's okay if we have to take a step back, but we have to take a step back with a purpose. Not thinking of it as, oh, my dog's never gonna, you know, learn this or never gonna be successful at this. Not being stopped and being like, I don't know what to do anymore, just continuing to come up with, you know, solutions for the problem. I think that was probably the biggest obstacle.

I mean, that's something once again that, you know, we've seen the process, uh, myself and Karen have seen the process a lot of times, and sometimes, more times than not, the process doesn't look the same every time. Um, with certain dogs, you definitely— it takes a little bit of time. It can be frustrating, and that's— I mean, one of the biggest things that I learned as a trainer, and probably one of the biggest light bulb moments that I had, was just being patient. And with the short amount of time that you have with these students, you know, sometimes that's a difficult aspect to, uh, procure— that's probably not the right word.

I'm not gonna say that's a big word. Yeah, that's a big word. That was good.

I stopped myself.

Yeah.

Um, but, but yeah, you know, um, sometimes you see these dogs learning really, really quick, so you just assume everything's going to be faster. Yeah, because they learn fast and they don't forget. Most of the time, but you know, you hit those walls and sometimes you just have to have that patience. And you know, we may have that patience, but you know, sometimes the other person on the leash doesn't, and they see their peers moving further ahead than themselves, but that spurs up some anxiety. You know, those are moments where you have to reassure those individuals and just you know, get them to buy into the process as well. Because just as much as we're buying into the students, we need them to buy into us as well.

Yeah. You know, Simon kind of touched on, you know, the dogs moving at different paces and how that can affect the class or affect a handler. And then working patience into that. But, but also the same is true. For the human counterparts, the handlers, because we don't just train dogs, we also train the human as well, which to me, if all we did was train dogs, man, our life would be easy. Like we would have the most fun. Nobody would get irritated as much, I don't think. But do you think that maybe which one's more challenging for you to be patient with, the dog or the handler?

I would say the handler for sure. A lot of the times I'll like see them making the same mistake over and over again and you just want to yell at them, don't you? Yeah, even me myself, I'm like, what are you doing? But I kind of have to take a step back, uh, and then just explain it to them and get them to understand what's going on. Even getting them to have patience as well, it's probably pretty difficult for me too.

Yeah, you're kind of a soft-spoken individual, so, you know, I know that can be a challenge, you know, to really, you know, get someone's attention, like, especially if they're making mistakes, because potentially that mistake that they're making can do— can have a negative effect to the training you put on that dog. You know, so you spend all this time preparing this dog and you hand that leash over to a new student. Does that frustrate you when you see all your work potentially crumble when, when this person makes the same mistake over and over? Like, dude, if you screw my dog up— does that, does that frustrate you at all?

Sometimes, but other times it's completely understandable. Even I, when I first got here, I made those same mistakes. Simon yelled at me a couple times for it, which is—

sure did.

Also, keep that in there.

So it's just getting them to— just teaching them new ways to do what they're supposed to be doing. Even if you have to hammer it into them, I think it's for the benefit of them and for the dog.

For those listening, Keely did not actually use any actual hammers on students. She's speaking metaphorically into repeating the instruction over and over. That's what she meant by hammering into them. No students were harmed at the, uh, CCU facility.

Yeah, but yeah, I mean, I can definitely understand that frustration with students, but I always say it as well, you know, I wish dogs had checkbooks and they could just cut us a check for training them. Yeah, but you know, that human aspect of it, it's just, uh, it's one of those things that I call them light bulb moments, and I see them happen. I enjoy seeing students have that light bulb moment. It's like the clouds have parted and the sunshine's coming through, and they're just like, oh, this is what he's been telling me, what Keely's been telling me to do 15 times over and over again. And, you know, one thing I found as an instructor is, um, even as a— whether you're training a dog or a handler, It's pretty similar in some instances. Um, as a trainer, I set up the environment to get what I want out of that dog. So sometimes I just need to isolate that issue and set up the environment for that handler to have that moment. Um, and it's all about how we set up that training length, and sometimes we just need to focus and hone in on one issue, whether it's the handler or the dog. And just work on it. And then once you get that fixed, you keep riding along. It's like you got a flat tire, you pull over, fix that tire, and you get back on the road, right?

Yeah. Sometimes we have to be creative in our instruction, right? You know, if just like every dog is different, you know, every person is different. And like Simon was saying, you know, sometimes we got to set up an environment to, to let the handler win. And a lot of creativity comes out of that. Sometimes we just got to think out of the box, right? Do you feel like you're at a place where you're— where you can do that yet, where you can kind of think out of the box? I'll give you an example. I remember one time we had a handler. He was struggling with his reading his dog, really. But, but he always had an excuse. Well, my dog's tired. You know, my dog's not searching or this or that. So we set up an environment so he could actually have that light bulb moment that Simon's talking about. All we did was we took a training aid and placed it somewhere. I think it was in the kennel office and had him come in and just talk to us with his dog like, hey, you know, what's some things that we need to work on? You know, and he was kind of ignoring his dog, just had his dog. And then all of a sudden his dog caught odor and snapped and started working the room by himself and then alerted and sat on the aid. And then we were able to say, did you see that? You see, your dog doesn't— it doesn't have an issue. What we've got to do is get you to be able to be confident in the process and what your dog is capable of. You didn't even give your dog a command. He smelled odor. He knows what to do. We just got to get you caught up. Do you feel like, like you're at a place where, where you can be that, that creative mind to help somebody get over a hump? And have you had to use that yet? Have you, have you had to do something out of the box?

I wouldn't necessarily say like out of the box, um, because I've seen it before, but we had this one dog that kept looking back at us while he was doing detection work, so he would smell and he would just stand there and look back. So, I've seen it before and we kind of utilized— first we started with 2 people, each one having a toy. Whoever he looks at, the other one pays. So, we've done that.

I think I've saw you do it before, Simon. I learned that from Buck Allen.

Yeah. And then another thing that he would do is he would just stop and pause and the handler would often just keep reaffirming the command, but we kind of just ignored it, started ignoring it. And once he understood, you know, what he was doing, he would go back and smell it and he'd finally sit and then we'd pay him.

Was it like 4 paws?

4 paws?

Yeah, you said paws and we're talking about dogs, so it's like 4 of them, 4 paws.

I mean, dogs do have—

that's your dad joke of the day, guys. Okay, just your dad joke.

But yeah, I mean, we've had plenty of, uh, You know, and you learn how to get creative by watching others. Um, absolutely. Like I said, I learned that from Buck Allen. Um, and there's plenty of things that I learned from, uh, other instructors around me. And having— and you mentioned it earlier too, um, just having someone to bounce ideas off of, uh, with Brandon, um, to help you problem solve. How would you say your support has been during these courses? Obviously I haven't been here.

Yeah, I would call though.

I would set up meetings with you guys every morning. But how, how does it build some confidence in you, or at least, um, give you that reassurance to know that, hey, if I ever need something, I got some very talented trainers— not me, um, around some more qualified trainers. Yeah, yeah, more qualified trainers around, uh, me that can help assist me if I ever you know, boo-boo it?

Um, it's been a little bit difficult, especially with you being gone. Um, a lot of the times I kind of found myself— because I don't like to bother people, so a lot of times I kind of found myself stuck, like, do I need to reach out to him or do I need to figure it out on my own? Um, but, you know, eventually I just talk to Brandon and we're gonna talk to you and you guys would kind of guide me in the right direction. So I do know that if I really am stumped, I have someone to go to, which is really nice.

Yeah, and, um, you know, that's something I remember as a trainer. What I would do often is anytime I would, uh, run into problems, uh, instead of trying to solve it on my own, I would try and run for help, per se. And, you know, you being in that situation where, hey, I'm gone, Brandon's probably busy, you've had to have tried and and solve some problems out on your own, which is good. I imagine it's nerve-wracking because you're like, I don't want to break this. But do you feel that, you know, in those situations where you were kind of nervous but you're like, hey, I'm just gonna try something and see if it works, have you had some success doing that?

I think so. I think, um, with the past, the past handler course that I taught, I ran into a few problems where I was like I don't really know, but once I sat on it and thought about it, kind of talked with the handler as well, like keep them included in what I was thinking, we always came to a good solution and we always ended up fixing, you know, the problem that was there.

Awesome. And sometimes, you know, just going out there and figuring it out on your own helps build that confidence as well, so that's definitely a big confidence boost and just another tool you can put in your toolbox, right? Yeah.

Yeah. You know, everything we do is pretty much based on science, right? So as long as we've got a clear picture of why we do certain things in training a dog and Simon said some of the things are transferable and works for training people as well. But if we know how learning occurs, because that's essentially what we're talking about, the dog has to learn, the handler has to learn. In order for us to mold and shape that team to be a useful, um, you know, a useful tool in the field. As long as we have something to stand on, a good foundation being science, um, you know, we can get them where we need to get them, right? You know, we can, we can get them out there to be successful and make some, make some good memories while we do it, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

Um, so have you, have you had any like memories that, that have stood out in the last 6, 7, 8 months that you've been doing this that, that you can go back to and, man, like maybe it blows you away, or good or bad, maybe it was something you did that was dumb and you're like, man, that was pretty memorable, I remember that, I'll never do that again. But are there any, any like mind-blowing memories that you've had over the past 6, 7, 8 months where where you think it would be helpful to share, uh, to someone else maybe potentially wanting to get into your shoes?

Oh geez, that's a hard one, Crim.

Well, we'll give you a second.

Yeah, I mean, you know, me and Simon will tell some jokes while you, uh—

Well, you brought up something. You brought up making memories. I really like that as a tagline.

Yeah, maybe a t-shirt.

Yeah, definitely a t-shirt idea. Is that another t-shirt idea?

I think so. Maya?

Help us out here.

T-Shirt Factory's closed.

Okay, well, we'll regroup. Making memories.

I mean, that's all we do, talk about the memories.

Yeah, man, we've had plenty of good memories on that train too.

Yeah, I mean, even today we made some memories.

I don't know if it's like a useful memory, but you know, one of the Pretty funniest memories I've ever had is I think my second student was going through CERT and he was in the second floor of the crack house. He hadn't even told his dog the command or anything and he just— the dog just went up, smelled it, sat, and he was pretty stoked about that. He was like, I've never seen anything like it.

And, uh, made you feel good, didn't it? Yeah, like, yeah, I did that.

It was a pretty good dog and just seeing him like just so happy about it, so amazed by, you know, the dog's abilities to find odor like he did, just kind of also made me pretty happy. Yeah.

I, uh, one thing that I guess I would, I would say, being able to work with you some, uh, Keely, is, is I've noticed one thing about you, and the fact that you take ownership of the work that you do. Okay. And what I mean by that, you and I were talking last week when I was here training with Argus, and as cert was going on, I mean, this is your student, this is your dog out there performing in the field, and you couldn't watch. You know, you're like, oh man, I can't watch. I'm so nervous. Well, to me, that, that speaks of you taking ownership in the product that you're putting out. You want them to succeed. You want them to be good, and you want to feel like you have done everything in your power to put that team out there and have prepared them to go and be excellent. And so I'd like to commend you on that because I don't think that that's— sometimes that's not a natural thing. I mean, I know I told you I was like that. I was the same way. You know, I couldn't watch the teams that I trained go through CERT because I just got so nervous because, you know, all these questions come up. Did I do this? Did I— I'm checking all these boxes. Crosses off in my head. Do I do the right thing here, man? I hope they do this. Um, you know, does— tell me what that feels like when you're watching a team that you've put through a course go out and hit that cert field, and, and whether it be bite work, dope, um, you know, tracking, anything. What does that feel like whenever you see them and they succeed? Does that, does that feel pretty good, or—

yeah, watching them go through cert, I can't, I can't watch. I don't think I'll ever be able to watch. Um, it's not that I'm like doubting or anything, but I'm like, I'm like really happy for them and hoping for their success. Um, the past few ones that I've been through, they always come back and they're like, dude, he did this, or, you know, he did amazing. And, you know, they're always, they're always very ecstatic that they, they went through CERT and they did well. So that, that's always—

You got a 5-star review, right? Multiple, multiple 5-star reviews. So yeah, 5-star trainer right here in our midst, you know.

I think it's the biggest thing to, um, the biggest thing about me is like having a heart and having a passion. Um, coming here and, you know, having Simon train my dog really opened up my eyes to canine training and being able to do this apprenticeship. Watching him have the passion for training dogs kind of has come down to me too, and just seeing other people do be a handler and love what they do, it's really nice.

And it's, it's a really special thing too. And I know Craig understands this as well, but, you know, not just our students having success while they're here with us, but even having success when they get back to their departments. And, you know, we invest so much time into them because we really do care about them.

Yeah.

We care about those dogs and we want them to be successful because, you know, it reflects on us whether or not they're successful. And, you know, we do keep in touch with a lot of our students. I just had a student that I put through the course about a year ago just shoot me a text message this morning that his dog had one of the biggest seizures in their county. In gosh knows how long. You know, being able to see that, like, I, you know, I get excited and I tell my students all the time, like, hey, you guys, I want to hear the successes. And I also want to hear when you guys are struggling because, hey, come back to me, come back to us. We're always open to you guys and we want to work with you and make sure, you know, any issues that you come across down the road, we want to help you guys out with that because that's the commitment that we make to our students.

Yeah, I feel the same way. Hearing from the students that have went through courses with me, when I hear back from them that they found, you know, a person on a track, or if they found dope, or if they, you know, found anything else, it's really nice to hear from them. Like, it always makes me really happy to hear that they're successful. No, it's also cool. Yeah, that you trained that. Like, honestly.

Yeah, you can— that's, that's a moment where you can kind of reflect and go, man, I did a pretty dang good job. And that guy, you know, I had a pretty good woman or woman, you know, or I'm stopping you there. So, but yeah, I mean, it does, it gives you, I don't know, I think it reaffirms your purpose in why you're doing what you're doing. You know, when, you know, Simon, you showed me that that picture of that seizure, you know, I mean, that's, that's got to make you feel like, like you've accomplished something through them, you know, because the knowledge that you imparted upon somebody, the training and the work that you've done on a dog and it's still going on. You know, I think it's okay in those moments to go, yeah, I did that. You know, maybe don't, maybe don't, maybe don't tell everybody because then you just, you know, okay, Keely, shut up. Yeah, yeah, put it out on a podcast or whatever. But, but, you know, I know where that dog was starting. Yeah, I trained that dog, you know, um, whatever. But, you know, it— I think in those moments as you're riding into work, you can, you can maybe even say it out loud. That's right, that was my, that was my dog team.

Even when, even when you leave and you find things.

Yeah.

Like, I know you're already handling stuff, but I still want to hear about it because—

Yeah, he found 3 hamburgers yesterday. Yeah, he's already finding stuff.

Yeah, it's awesome. They're in his bags.

So, well, you know, moving forward from, from this, this place that you're in now, You know, tell us about your, your goals, you know, some goals and some aspirations. Is that the right word? I'm using big words now. Aspirations. Yeah, that's not when you're choking, right? Okay, perfect. So if you ever do choke, make sure you slap the table, slap the table, you know, or use the universal sign. But what are some goals and some aspirations that you have moving forward? In your canine career?

Um, honestly, I just want to be able to talk about things more. I think that's probably been my—

you want to talk about your feelings, things more dog-related things. Oh, you want to talk canine? You're in the right place.

I think being able to be a true instructor and teach classes and, you know, spread more knowledge about the industry, I think is where I really do want to go, um, because the biggest part, spreading knowledge, is probably the most important thing.

Yeah, so Simon, you heard her, she wants to teach class tomorrow.

So yeah, I'm good on that.

But I mean, that would be Monday, start teaching, maybe just sitting on some classes. But, um, well, you talked about spreading some knowledge, and I think You know, um, you do have some knowledge to share. Um, there's probably some listeners that are listening to this that has some interest in the canine industry. What kind of advice would you give them, uh, to get that dream or goal aspiration— not asphyxiation.

I would say, just say jump in. Um, You know, when I first started, when I got my first dog, I didn't know anything about dogs, but I was like, yeah, I know everything. Then I realized I didn't because everything went down fucking there. But, you know, I kind of just like researched a bunch of different places and I came across here and I just kept showing up. I think the biggest thing is showing up and applying yourself and trusting the people that you're with. That they're going to guide you in the right direction.

So lastly, well, you talked about jumping in, seeking out a program. Tell me what they should be looking for in a training program or even in a mentor.

Someone who loves what they do. I don't think it would be very motivating, especially for me. Like, the biggest thing is been that everybody here cares about what they do. So just seeing that care and that passion for what they do and the love for the job, I think is the biggest thing that's kind of helped me, you know, be here and figure out where I, where I want to be and what I want to do. Like with you training Astrid, like I saw that you cared about me making progress and about me understanding how to train her and what to do better. And then I also saw that you cared about me as a person too.

Yeah. Well, you know, I think a lot of that is something that the best mentors that I had, they weren't just focused on whether it was playing football or wrestling or being in the Marine Corps. The best mentors that I had cared about me not just being the best wrestler, the best football player, or the best Marine, or even the best dog trainer. They're more concerned about making me the best man that I could possibly be because we need to be well-rounded individuals. Yeah. If you're having troubles at home, if things are falling apart, how can I expect you to come out here and perform as well? We gotta have all of our P's and Q's together in our lives because—

P's and Q's?

I don't know. Maya, do you know what that is?

Never heard it.

Yeah, I think it's right.

Yeah, just having, having everything together. You know, we gotta be put together. You know, that's— that was kind of heartfelt.

I know, I hate it. I beat up Simon.

Yeah, like we're making memories right now. I feel like we're breaking down barriers and walls in this room.

It's nice getting together with you guys, with our recurring guest coming in for his third appearance.

Hey man.

He somehow like I think he's got a job here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just filming podcasts with us. But Keely, going back to you talking about you thought you knew everything and now you don't.

Oh yeah.

Yeah. I think that's just dog training.

Yeah.

You get to a point where you're like, man, I know everything. And then you get, you get turned down a notch.

Yeah.

Something happens. There's a dog in that kennel that just messes your whole worldview up. But then, you know, you build that confidence back up and they're like, I know everything, but it's going to come down again. Those are the ebbs and flows of dog training, right?

Yeah, I think it's good to have a reminder all the time that, you know, every dog is different and you're always going to encounter different scenarios or different problems and you're never going to do the same with all of them. What's the word I'm looking for? The same training. You're not going to go through the same training set with every dog because everything is different.

Yeah, yeah.

I think, I think as, as dog trainers, we should never stop learning. And, and I think, I think that's what gets some— like, some trainers tend to think that, oh, I've got to keep this all a secret. This is my training. But yeah, we always need to keep learning because, you know, I know that I can come here to this facility and I can learn something from someone that's been on a 6-month apprenticeship, just like I can learn something from somebody that's been doing it for 20 years. You may, you may teach me a different way of thinking, or you may throw out an idea that I couldn't come up with by myself. So I think we always got to be students. Students is what we always need to be. We need to always be learning because there's, you know, like Simon said, there's always something that's going to knock us off the stool, you know, when we think we're there, and then all of a sudden, we got an issue with a dog or even with a student.

You gotta call the unqualified.

Yeah, yeah. You're like, oh man, I really don't want to call Simon on this, but I'm gonna call him because maybe he's got a different perspective. So we always need to be students.

All right, should we close it out? All right, Crane, you want to close it out? Close this out, Crane.

All right, well, thank you for, uh, for joining us again for Source. We've had a great conversation with Keely and Simon. I appreciate you having me back. Maya, thank you for allowing me to come back. And Keely, we, we want to congratulate you on your milestone thus far. And, uh, hey, we'll see y'all back again on Source.

Woof!