How to be a Good K9 Handler | SOURCE

I can't believe it's another Friday and we're on The Source Podcast, all things working dogs. And I have the privilege to be here with Voice of Reason, which is usually here on Fridays with me, and also my good friend Adam, not so skinny Crenshaw. That's right, used to be Skinny Crenshaw, used to be Skinny Crenshaw, but we changed it. We've adapted and overcome, like Yeah, you know, so that's a great thing.

Yeah, absolutely.

Change is necessary.

It is. It is. Not So Skinny Crim kind of rolls off the tongue a little better too.

So yeah, it does. Well, it's a distinction. Nobody's ever heard that before. Like you've never had a friend or you've never heard of any other person with the nickname Not So Skinny. Yeah, yeah. Not So for short. Yeah. Well, that leads us right into our topic for this week. What makes a great handler? Not soap. Skinny cream. But we, uh, I'm talking about this on a previous week's podcast, and this was a topic that I thought was something that was necessary, but I think we're going to get to the end of this and we're going to see that we're not going to really have a definitive answer. Yeah, that's what I forecast. Yeah, the answer being— but I don't know. I think if people stay tuned to the end of the podcast, then they'll be pleasantly surprised with the elements that they can, uh, see on what's going to make them great.

Or they just may feel sorry for you inviting me to do this podcast at the end of this podcast.

I've known you too long and I know it won't disappoint.

Well, we'll see.

We have never disappointed yet. And remember, the finisher is on this side.

That's true. That is true.

So yeah, at the end of the day, I'm going to bring it home.

Right, right, right. As long as the finisher's in the room, we should be good to go.

I did right for a reason. I don't know what that means, so I don't want to agree. She voted this side of the room yes on our last week's podcast, so she's gonna vote this again.

Okay, well, good. Yeah, well Um, let's get started, man.

Let's get ready to roll. All right, before we get started, we got some public service announcements to give, right? If you don't like, please like. If you haven't subscribed, please subscribe. Down below is the show notes, and you'll have all the information we cover in this episode, links, relative information, all that good stuff, because the Voice for Reason does her freaking job every week.

And the voice of reason may also want you to do something to get notifications about this upcoming podcast.

That's right. What would that be?

What is that?

What's the reason?

Ring that bell.

Ring the bell.

Yeah, ring that bell.

So we used to ring the bell here, Marty. You don't know about this because this is before your time. And this is how crazy it was, because we used to ring the bell. And it's funny that we're talking about this right now because I looked behind me earlier And that particular student came back here to train and just get some additional training, complained about having to ring the bell because he kept screwing up. So we no longer ring the bell. Yeah, because we're the softer, gentler, gentler Brandon type handling training.

Yeah. Back in the day, we used to, used to ring them out, man.

Joker, if you weren't smart, you were sure enough strong and in shape. Yeah. You got to ring the bell.

Yeah. Lottie Dottie, everybody.

Let's take it off. Let's go run and go ring the bell. Go run and ring the bell. Remember those days? Those were good old days.

They were. Those were some fun times.

Yeah. So, and this is the great thing, is we have an evolution of almost 20 years, right? A decade from, you know, me being a handler, me and you working together, starting the CCU, and then to now, you You're now a handler for PD and doing your thing.

Yep.

On your second dog.

Second dog.

With that PD. Man, that's crazy. That's crazy.

Oh, yeah.

So I think throughout this, people are going to learn a lot because for those handlers that are already handlers, I think it's going to jog some memories and spark some smiles and laughter in the car or wherever they may be. Listen to this episode. But for those that are not in this industry yet, it's going to give you a different perspective. Yeah. As we talked in a previous episode, we talked about how, what it takes to be a handler and like really from that perspective, especially for those that haven't been a handler, like how difficult it really is. It's not as easy.

Oh yeah.

Which brings up a memory with you.

I know. I already know where you're going. Go ahead. I already know.

So, Crenn and I had been training together for quite some time at this point.

Yeah.

And, you know, we had decided to go ahead and open CCU. And I remember distinctly whose dog it was. It was Steve Torcer Townes' dog that we were training, getting him ready for Steve to come down and do a handler's course. And we were still in law enforcement then. At the time, we used to prep dogs and then run handlers course, take off from work, take time, take vacation, and then run handlers courses. So me and Crain were— had made the decision to open CCU, but we were running this course or about to start this course. And I said, hey, Crain, we need to start prepping and you need to start actually, because at the time Crain was decoying for me and helping me with training. Yep.

I was on the, on the other end of everything.

Yeah.

Wasn't on the end of the leash. I was on the other end of the dog most of the time.

Well, you know, but this is— That's Crane's way of starting to lay his foundation for his excuses. So let me go ahead and cut this off now. All right, go ahead. Get right into it. So I said, Crane, you need to start now. Mind you, this dog had went through the phases of imprinting, the wall, we had a file. This dog was on a vehicle now sniffing on his own, doing all these things. I hand Crane the leash.

What a mistake.

What a freaking mistake. Yeah. Well, let me tell you what happened. It looked like a football bat and it was ugly.

Yeah.

If you can imagine what a football bat looks like, can you imagine that? You know what a football bat looks like?

How about this? Have you ever watched a 3-legged dog trying to bury a turd on a frozen lake? That's pretty much what it looked like.

Yeah, it was terrible.

It was bad. It was really bad. I remember I could feel my ears getting red because I was so embarrassed. And AJ, you know, as, as things have evolved, you know, AJ's got a little softer in some things. But then AJ would just scream at you. And so here he is yelling at me and laughing at me all at the same time. I just— yeah, I knew exactly what story you're going with.

Verbal, uh, What most great trainers do when shit ain't going right? You snatch the leash. Yeah.

Yeah.

Give me the leash and let me do it.

Don't stand over there and watch me do what I do. Yeah. Yeah. It was bad.

Yeah. It's not you. It's not the dog. It's you. Yeah. And I knew.

I knew right away it was me. You know, it looks easy when you watch somebody else do it, but yeah.

Oh, man.

It does.

So, you know, that, that, that episode brought those memories back, you know, and how But I remember you distinctly saying this, and it stuck with me till today. You said, but I've never actually done this. Like, I've helped you with training. I've been involved in training. I've been decoying, but I've never actually had my hands on the leash.

Yeah.

So that brings up another important point. You can't do this shit from the sidelines. Yeah. You got to, like, be involved. You got to get your hands on the leash. You got to work. You got to perfect your craft. You got to spend hours doing it and working towards perfection every single session. It's funny because I get these emails at times where somebody is asking for an online handler course.

Yeah.

And I just chuckle. Yeah. And I just think, little do they know. Now, I've seen some people offer these courses. And, you know, I guess whatever sells is the philosophy, but there's no way to do a handler course without putting your hands on the leash. And that's a prime example. We knew this 20 years ago.

Oh yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, there's that, that one memory, I guess for me though, put in perspective of, you know, if I'm ever going to get decent at this, man. I'm, you know, I've got to sharpen myself. I got to train myself. I got to listen to other people, watch other people, duplicate what I see. But you can't do it unless your hand is touching that leather and you learn to move and you learn to watch and you learn to, you know, it's, it's impossible.

Yeah, well, that's great because I know a lot of people think we prep and we like sit down and talk about our episodes. We ain't got time to do that. No, we got to jump right into it. We have an outline Voice of Reason puts together for us so that we're kind of staying on topic because she knew specifically what we needed to do.

We're ADD.

Yeah, we end up over here in left field somewhere and have to re-record everything because there would be no usable content in this. But with that being said, It's funny that you say that because that's exactly what we pushed out in the previous episode when we talked about being a handler, like these things that we have to do, learn from other people, listen. You know, we got two eyes and one mouth. Let's watch. Let's listen with our two ears far more than what we do talking and running our lip. So it's great that you, you bring that up as we delve into being a good handler because That's the segue to what it really takes to be successful. But there's a lot of supervisors and maybe a lot of people that were in companies that select handlers. And I know people want to check the box. I have a good— well, who has become a good friend of ours over the years after taking the course, but they own the company. And one thing I was talking to them about, because they've had some tremendous turmoil and turnover, uh, from a handler's perspective. And, you know, the reality is, is the selection of your handlers are going to make a difference.

Yeah.

You continue to try to make gold out of crap, it ain't going to happen.

Yeah.

And so there's some qualities that they may need to be looking for. And so I want to just briefly talk about that just a little bit on maybe some some things that would be good indicators that somebody would be a good— yeah, good fit to be a handler. Yeah, give me one.

Um, I would say self-initiated. Um, if, if somebody, you know, we've, we've talked about this a lot before, you know, some people think that the dog is gonna, is gonna magically create, um, you know, I guess an environment for, oh man, I'm gonna find dope if I get a dog. Yeah, well, buddy, if you're not finding dope now, you're not going to be finding dope with a dog. The dog's just a tool. It's a location tool. So if you're not pulling cars over, if you're not reading past the stop and investigating in that stop, if you're not, you know, getting consent and getting in cars and all this, you're not going to magically find dope with a dog. The dog does not make the difference. The officer makes the difference. So I'd say one of those things is you've got to have a proactive officer that shows some self-initiation to, to get out there and do the job. And it— I mean, yes, part, part of, of working a dog is, is the drug location aspect, but You know, I would say if you got an officer that, that has found kind of what he enjoys about the job and is, is involved in reading past that initial traffic stop, because there are, there's some officers, they're about stats. They want to, they want to write that ticket and get to the next one, write that ticket, get to the next one. And we all know those, those people, you know, the, the, the traffic Nazis.

No, that's not a bad position.

It's not. No, just not.

It's.

But it may not be the perfect thing for a handler, even though they've got great numbers. If they're writing tickets and getting to the next stop without reading past it, not noticing, hey, this, this guy's nervous, his story doesn't make sense, all of these things, and not putting that picture together in order to make the next step.

But let me, you know, I just want to understand where you're at. Because you brought this up and, you know, talking about, you know, that officer that's going to go beyond that stop and is going to investigate it, it just jogged my memory about this story. Um, I was on the road one time and I heard a call come out, and there was a particular, uh, officer on, on that call. Um, sorry, COVID. And, uh, His badge number at the time just happened to be 81.

Oh, oh, I think I know who you're talking about.

Yeah.

Is this the guy with a 4-year-old mustache?

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

So he stops the car and, uh, calls out the name and date of birth, and I hear it, and I happen to be familiar with this person.

That's the woman, the lady, right? That was the mother, Rosalind.

Yes.

And we don't say the last name, but her name was Rosalind.

And so I start that way.

Yeah.

And, uh, I get there because it was odd that that person was driving the car at the time of night.

They were suspended.

And yes. And, and, uh, so then I get there and, you know, this particular person is writing a ticket like normal. Go ahead and, you know, get the stack, get them out of there. And, uh, I walk up to the car and I said, Rosalind. And, uh, she looks at me and, uh, realizes who I am, that I know her. And no, my name's not Rosalind. And gives her daughter's name.

And, uh, the funny thing was, it was 18.

She was in her mid-40s. And the name, the ID she presented was in was in the mid, uh, mid-teens or upper teens. Yeah. And, uh, so the joke is, and you know, the, the, the commonality between what Krian's saying now is he has evolved. Now, has he called me soft?

Or, or, hang on now, this lady's mustache was— yeah, 18 years old. Or if you think about it in another way, maybe I was trying to get her to sign that ticket so I'd have another charge. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, most officers— maybe I knew and I just wasn't going to show my hand, you know what I mean?

Most officers would have. At the time, I knew that wasn't happening, so I had to tell Cran, listen, man, you, you, you— this lady is obviously close to 50 years old. Yeah, she told you she was 18. You got to look past the stop. You got to look past this.

I knew. I knew that was going to come up. I knew it.

I didn't bring it up though. Oh yeah, you brought it. Yeah. Okay. But go ahead. Continue with what you were saying. No, you're absolutely right though. Yeah. A dog is not going to help somebody produce. Like it's actually going to hinder them.

It's, it's, yeah, it's like this though. In any area of law enforcement, when you are staffing different, you know, different things in your department, you're not going to want someone that is that loves working their own cases to go and be a part of a traffic unit.

Yeah.

You know, they have to kind of be tailored toward writing those citations. You know, they've got to enjoy working traffic, just like you're not going to have someone that only wants to write tickets be in CID or something like that. When you, when you go in that selection process, you know, and I feel like handlers, K-9 handlers, have got to kind of be in that in-between because they've got to know traffic law well enough in order to engage or initiate a stop to start the process of going deeper into it.

Yeah, that's right.

But they also have got to know enough about investigating a scene to where they can pick up on cues and have indications of, oh, this is a good stop, or no, I'm going to cut this one loose. So handlers have kind of got to be in that, in that magical in-between. However, they have to show some, some want to, you know.

So no, you're absolutely right. And the funny thing is you led off with that, like, yeah, being one of the qualities that would make a good handler and one of the traits that they should have, which is, which is great because that's before they even get a dog. Yeah. That's not even doing it in or diving into the traits that they need to have when they get a dog that makes them a good, uh, because the job has to come full circle. You get a lazy handler in there. It's going to create a lazy dog and there's going to be nothing but excuses after that point. And we've seen it time and time and time and time again. Whereas you get that go-getter. A dog is not— is just going to enhance them.

Yeah.

But they're going to be able to manage everything they need to manage. Record keeping, reports, uh, their deployment reports, that is.

Yes.

Training, court, you know, their, their time on shift is going to be well managed because—

which is something that I'm going to bring up later on in the podcast.

Yeah.

Um, about time management. So I'll bring that up later on when it's appropriate.

Appropriate, yeah.

Um, but yeah, that—

but let's look at some traits specifically for them, what it takes to handle a dog. Um, and the first one that comes to mind is patience. Yeah, yeah. You know, that's another living creature that you're trying to control and get to be like-minded with you. Yeah. And I normally say it takes 6 months to a year to find your groove Yeah. You know, despite the training, despite the time, you got to get to a point to where it just comes naturally. And it just so happens not too long ago you got a new dog.

Yep.

And are you still in that honeymoon phase, if you will?

Yeah, I'll tell you this. Like, there's, you know, certain things that I did with my last dog that I don't do with Argus yet because I don't trust him like that, you know. Um, for example, like, Max was so good about just, you know, being near me, and, and I could almost— I could predict everything he did. Yeah. So going to the PD, I pull into the back, and I would let him out and let him run around and use the bathroom, and I'd watch him, and he'd come up and we'd do a Argus ain't doing that yet. I'm not letting that boy off leash right like that, you know, because that boy may go, oh, what's that, a squirrel? And be gone. And then now I'm looking for him in the city. So yeah, we're— there's, there's certain things that, that, that we're just not to that point yet. And, you know, I'll tell you, like, you know, we had a successful track, Argus and I did. Couple of weeks ago or last week or something. And, you know, you— not to piggyback off the last podcast we did about, you know, retiring dogs, but you look at that and you go, wow, that was a lot different than the last dog, you know. But, but yeah, I would say, I would say me and August are still in that phase where we're still learning each other. We're still figuring each other out.

The right way, right? You said you're learning each other because he's also learning you. And that's an important aspect to realize that much like a marriage, there's two parties to that. Yeah. Have to come together and make a union. And if one's fighting the other, it's just going to prolong the process. So that patience needs to come in to then do that. And then, you know, you talk about communication, right? Hey, let's parallel that with the marriage. If you don't communicate, you're going to have a bad time. Yeah, you know, it's going to be rocky and rough. But likewise with your dog, if you're reading what they're communicating to you and you learn to read that, because every dog is just a little bit different, then you also make that transition, that honeymoon, a little bit easier versus trying to force it. And I've seen handlers, especially on their second dog, try to forced.

Yeah.

And compare that all to their next dog or previous dog. Right. But my other dog did. But my other—

but sometimes handlers think that there's something wrong with this dog because the other dog did it this way and there's nothing wrong with this one. They just do it different.

That's right. What are some other traits that come to mind?

You know, we talked about, you know, being proactive. We talked about having patience. You know, I would, I would think you and I wouldn't think that this one necessarily makes or breaks a good handler. I think it makes for a, a good officer all around. But in K-9, there's certain things that we're expected to do that I think a good communicator is needed. I can tell you a lot of times on my stops, I talk myself in that car. I don't even have to get Argus out because I get consent, you know, because I like to talk. Yeah. And I can— I'll treat everybody like they're somebody. And, you know, hey, man, can we release trade secrets on here?

Oh, man.

Yeah. So, but, but, you know, being, being a good communicator is— and you touched on it as far as handler to dog. But, you know, and that goes— that's a part of it, being able to communicate with your dog in a way that it's going to set you up to be successful. But also, as you're out there working your dog and working in the street, communicating with the public or people on a stop, man, to be that— because in K9, you know, you're going to do dog and pony shows 100%. You're going to the schools. You're going to city council meetings, you're going to these places and you're expected to talk to people about what you do and about your dog. And if you stand up there and look like a bumbling idiot, you know, your chief or your sheriff or whoever, they're going to be like, oh man, you know? And so, you know, there's, there's so many places where being a good communicator falls in line. With being a good handler.

Well, you know, that's the funny thing, right? Because you mentioning just the demos, and it just dawned on me when I think about all the other divisions in a PD, there's very few that get called on to do demos.

Yeah, CID is not going to do it, right?

That's what I'm saying.

No, no, no, no, no first grader wants to see somebody dust fingerprints. You know, that's boring. You know, but they want see that dog go over there and bite somebody, you know.

It's funny how Crim brings stuff up and it just jogs my memory. Do you remember when you were the crime scene investigator for— yeah, our shift? Yeah, right. Uh, and this is many moons ago. Do you remember when you dusted for fingerprints for that stolen Skittles? And you're right, nobody wants that. Oh, that's a lie.

What's the reason that was a lie? I'll give you the backstory later. I don't think we have time for it today. That was 100% a lie.

So you did not? I did not.

You did not?

I did not.

I did not. I did take a report for stolen Skittles, but I did not bust. But however, I did not take a report for stolen hamburger off the grill.

Really?

Yeah, because that was, that was, that was Jeremy Edge, one of Gainesville's finest. Retired.

Retired.

Well, no, he's still—

No, I'm saying his dog.

Oh, his dog. Yeah, yeah. But Jeremy Edgeboy.

Total of 3, 3 fines.

Yeah.

Yeah. He had a—

I think he had $120 total in seizure. Man, we got to send this to Jeremy and let him watch it. He's going to be mad.

But I tell you what, he was, he was lifting the roof for those.

Oh, yeah. He would say this, Voice of Reason, he would say, Where you're from, you raise the roof. Where I'm from, we crack the windows. Oh man. Oh yeah, love that guy.

Love that dude. Uh, he big boy. Yeah, sure has changed.

When he drives in his, uh, car, it leans though.

Oh yeah, yeah, it ain't his fault. No, he's got a big mess. Yeah, he just had grooming. Yeah, yeah. So it's all the equipment. But with that being said, I mean, you're right. There's just not many other divisions that have to be multifaceted in that. You know, we were typically canine handlers or that alpha. And I say male, not to say there's not alpha females. I mean, we're just that type A, type A would be the better term. And but yet at the same time, we show up, we're going to take control. At least we should. Uh, in most cases, and what I mean on the scene, we're going to just take control. That's, that's natural. But then we're at a demo and we're— we have to totally flip our roles and be more engaging and more— where typically we're telling people, leave us alone, we got to get to work. Yeah. So it just never dawned on me until you just said that, like, how much we the different hats that we have to wear in K-9. And I didn't even really realize that compared to other divisions.

Yeah. I mean, you know, and not to mention, there's not another division in law enforcement that you have to take your, your tool home to maintain in a constant way unless you're like unless your department has an equine unit, you know, or something like that. Equine, equestrian, horses. Sorry, I'm going to dumb it down for horses, my guy.

No, I was just going to ask you to spell it.

Yeah. Oh, I can't. E-Q, equestrian. All right. But, but yeah, you know, where, where you, your work never leaves you, you know. No, CID, if you're not on call and you're off, man, you're, you're at the house and you're being left alone, you know, like at 5:00.

Yeah.

Yeah. Like, like if you're, if it's 5:00, 5:07, something like that.

Yeah.

No, you're, you're done.

Yeah.

You're done for the day.

Yeah.

You're going home. You're eating. You may come back and then go back home. But, you know, but, you know, if you're, if you're on a traffic unit, I have to interject this.

Yeah. Because there's a lot of things that will say they're throughout this podcast that are kind of inside jokes.

Yeah.

And I apologize to our listeners because it's funny to us.

It's not funny to them because they're like, that was stupid. Why did they say that?

Yeah, why are they saying that? But that is an inside joke.

Yeah.

We won't share it because it'll take up a lot of time. It's really irrelevant. But yeah, I apologize up front. When we get together, it's just one of those things where we talk about a lot of things that we—

and sometimes we say things that we know is going to embarrass the other party. And I think you've seen—

I don't know.

Yeah, I think you've seen that. Hang on, hang on. I think, Voice of Reason, you've already seen a couple examples of that today, um, with AJ, um, projecting humiliation upon his guest.

But so here's the, here's the deal though. The reality of it is people listen to this because they want to hear the truth. Now we can sugarcoat it if you want.

Yeah.

Oh yeah. You know, and tell them how great you are and tell them, well, this is not a comedy podcast, you know. But the reality is this is what true canine people do. Yeah.

We're just— this is just real. It's just—

yeah, drinking coffee.

It's just as real as it gets and telling real life stories.

This is not like None of this is made up. This is all the truth. Yeah, I do not agree.

Well, except for the, uh, except for fingerprinting Skittles.

That was on—

that was a lie.

You never took a report?

I took a report, but I did not do fingerprints on a Skittle bag.

How many other people you know have taken a report for Skittles and put it in NCIC?

I didn't. That's another one. I never did that either.

You never entered the SKU number? No, I didn't. Now Follow-up to this story is, didn't someone locate the Skittles, the said missing Skittles? Yeah, yeah, I think they did.

Chris Letson located the bag without a dog, so that just shows the kind of guy he was.

Without you hearing that?

Yeah, and now he's got a dog. Now he's got a dog.

So I'm just making sure, because although he tries to say that these stories are not real, they're absolutely 100% real.

Like, I couldn't make these things with small fabrications. Move on to the next question.

Jeez. So now that everybody's enlightened to the direction of this for the duration, you know, it's important to understand that there is a reality behind this. And the reality is, is that we need to identify what makes a good handler. We've identified some of those things. Now, what about physical fitness, though?

I mean, definitely. I mean, I know, like, you guys can't see this.

Krenn's obviously in great physical shape.

Well, I look okay from here up. Yeah, but as soon as I stand up, my gut flops over this table. I mean, it's a little different. Hence the nickname, Not So Skinny Crim. Yeah, I would think, you know, at least some level, because you, you already have a physically demanding assignment. Yeah. Now you can, you can choose not to train and choose not to do these things and you know, whatever. But when your department really needs you, or, or that, that neighboring agency has a call out because they really, really need you, and you're not at least in some type of shape where you can go and be useful, then what's the point of doing that job in the first place? Like, because you can't predict what's happened, what's about to happen, how long the track is, how long the track is, how long you're, you're stuck outside. You know, whatever the case may be, you can't predict— you can't predict how hot it's going to be that day.

Well, you know, that's the funny thing is, is that Brandon, in one of our previous episodes, not very soft Brandon. Yeah. Talked about that, how physically demanding it is. Yeah. You know, here's, here's the thing that I need to drop on them. And this is in all seriousness, guys, no jokes. You know I don't joke around.

I know, I know, you're a serious man.

So with that being said, your shape has not hindered you though from accomplishing your task? No, no. And I'm saying that to be like, there's football shape, there's basketball shape, there's golf shape, there's canine handling shape. Mhm. To The way to get into that shape is not necessarily going to the gym and running 20 miles. Working your dog is working your freaking dog training, right? Like, get out there and do it. That's how you condition your dog. That's how you condition yourself. And you know that. I think that's the point that I want to drive home is don't look at the physique.

Yeah, you don't have to be, you know, I mean, you don't have to look like Simon. To be able to, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

Simon.

Unathletic.

Yeah.

Yeah. Walk on your toes.

You know, pigeon-toed.

Yeah.

Smelly.

Yeah.

Looks like a bowl of pudding. You don't have to be Simon.

Yeah.

But yeah, I don't think you have to have this, this idea of, well, I can't do it because of these limitations. I can't run 6 miles. Okay.

But if I hear you out here crying about a trike that's, you know, at 102 degrees outside in the summertime and you can't go over the hill, you can't jump the fence. Yeah.

Then what's the point?

Yeah. Then you got an issue. Yeah.

What's the point?

But if you can and you're a bigger person and you can do all that, that's wrong.

Yeah.

Because I've seen plenty of bigger handlers that I'm going to ride with them all day long. Oh, yes. They're on top of it, right? But that's because they get out there and do it. They have conditioned their bodies to do it. Based on their physique.

Yeah.

And so I think that's important because, you know, Soft Brandon continued to harp on that in another episode. And I didn't chastise him about that because, you know, that's his perspective. He's obviously in great shape.

Oh yeah. He goes to the gym.

He goes to the gym. But, you know, it's a different type of fitness when we talk about being a K-9 handler.

Yeah.

I don't want to discount that.

Yeah.

I don't want to take that away from anybody. Not to say Brandon is not in great physical shape to be a handler as well, because he is. The point is, is that it is task-specific.

Yeah.

And you got to— if I need you in the suit to catch 6 or 7 dogs, I don't want you crying about you can't catch dogs.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think there's also a level of determination that goes into it as well.

That mental toughness.

Yeah. That— yeah. Because, I mean, You know, if, if I'm catching 6 or 7 dogs back to back to back to back, you know, if I'm struggling, I ain't telling nobody. I'm just going to keep going until I pass out.

Yeah.

You know, or if I'm on that track and as long as my dog's in good shape and I'm feeling like I'm going to throw up, I'm going to throw up, but I'm going to keep moving while I'm doing it. You know, there's, there's a level of determination that, that you got to have to do it as well. You know, to where you, you don't have that quit, give up attitude.

Well, that's something that Brandon and I finished a podcast with the other day, and that was we're cut from a different cloth. We have that same type of mentality no matter what. We can joke and pick fun at each other and cry about it here to the nation, to the world. Yeah, because, you know, this is worldwide. Uh, but, uh, people don't care.

Yeah.

And quite frankly, I don't care about Kareem's feelings because he's gonna be all right.

Yeah.

But at the same time, he does the same thing to me. He just tries to do it and be slick about it and then try to poke fun at me and talk about me all the time. But you don't hear me crying about it.

Yeah.

But that's just what he does.

Yeah. But I typically build you like a sandwich.

Okay.

Yeah, I'll tell you something great about yourself and then I really make fun of you and make you feel like crap, then I finish it off, you know. But AJ, man, I love you.

Yeah, speaking of finishing it off, uh, where are we going with that? I was thinking about somebody. I was thinking about somebody.

Oh, okay.

Anyway, uh, let's talk about some personal struggles, Craig.

Oh boy, I got plenty of those.

Yeah, we've laid, uh, Oh, oh, you're talking about relating to—

okay, I got you, man. I thought— yeah, I thought I was gonna have—

which reminds me of another story. Well, we'll talk about it anyway. Yeah, yeah, anyway, um, but Walmart parking lot, Andrew Todd, and whatever.

Yeah, whatever.

Um, but Let's talk about some struggles.

Yeah.

As an handler, because we've all had it. Right. And I'm going to open up and be a little bit of, I guess, transparent.

Yeah.

I think many people have already heard me say on previous podcasts, if you listen, if you haven't, go back and listen to them about how I kind of started my career as a handler and the lack of training that I actually got. And I purposely haven't mentioned anybody's name. The company's name, you know, where I went or who trained me. But looking back, I'm not discounting it because I learned a lot of what not to do. And it also brought me full circle to believe in the things that I believe in now, which is don't leave handlers untrained. Do everything you can to help them. But I think some of my personal struggles is I always wanted to be the best that I could be at anything that I ever spent time doing. And that was one thing I tell my girls all the time. If you— if it's worth your time spending doing it, do it with excellence, no matter what it is. Don't just go through the motions. Yeah. And early in my career, I felt myself with my first dog really feeling like I had nowhere to turn, nobody to help me. It kind of felt isolated and wasn't in the best place possible because I felt like we had we did not leave training in the best position. Yeah. To have the, at least the building blocks to be successful. And I felt like I had nobody to turn to. And really, if I think about it, it was really just me and you figuring things out, you know, from decoy handling to patrol work to tactics to, I mean, how to get the dog transitioned from this very pristine, in-the-box training regimen that we went through to the real world. It was difficult. And I think my biggest struggles came from the fact of not having the resources to help me and not having anybody to rely— rely— any reliable person that I trusted to turn to to give me solid answers on the direction of help me with anything. Definitely not the, the vendor we went to to get our dogs. And I think that, that weighs on me still today. That really puts me in a place when I see people in those positions, it really weighs on me, I think, personally. So there you go. My first personal struggle is, is, is just that. But now you have now, you know, came full circle and you're working your second golf. You know, what are some struggles that you see that you go through?

I'll tell you. So what comes to mind immediately, there's, there's two things that I typically struggle with, and, and it's a continuation of everything else in my personal life. It just spills over into Okay. The dog, you know, it's, it's who I am normally. It's the same two things that I have to fight every day, even if I'm not working the dog. It just continues. But one of those is, is time management.

Yeah.

You know, and I, you know, I alluded to that and I was going to speak on that earlier on. But time management, man, I'm, I'm ADD. I am as scatterbrained as anybody. And forcing myself to do certain things. Like when I get done with the training set, because I know me, I need to go and document immediately. Because if I do not, if I just make my notes and I'll get to it later, but that later is 6 weeks from now. You know, that later is, oh crap, I forgot to do my training reports. Where's my notes? I've lost my notes. Well, you know, and I've—

I'm laughing at this because, as everybody knows, we've known each other for 20 years and we work— we've been working together 20 years. Right. And I'm laughing because we used to capitalize on that with Cran. Yeah.

Yeah.

So Cran, you know, back in the day, we— by the end of your shift, you had to have all your reports done and all your paperwork done if you want canine.

Yeah.

Um, and so Crenn would be in the shift change room on his computer handpicking.

Yeah, because I still can't type.

And Lieutenant is waiting on his reports, and we would go in there and just start talking to Crenn about anything. Hey Crenn, how's everything going? Crenn would literally stop, turn around and begin to talk, knowing he had 3 reports waiting.

Yeah.

And Lieutenant was waiting for those reports to check them so that he could release the entire shift because that was the other rule. Everybody had to leave together.

Yeah, I was, I was always the one holding us up.

So we would go to shift change and start talking to him and Lieutenant, and we would die laughing about it. And Lieutenant started getting hip to this. And you would hear Lieutenant from the other office yell, "Krin, get to work! Get your reports done!" "All right, all right, guys." 3 minutes later, we get back on Krin.

Yeah, it would take Lieutenant coming into the shift room and say, "Guys, leave him alone." And it would often take that.

Yeah.

But yeah, that, that's, that is just a continuation for the rest of my life. You know, and so I think it's different from handler to handler.

But okay, but here, but we got to make this point real quick. Despite that, yeah, you still haven't made any excuses. Right, right. You have a lot of people that would use that as an excuse on why they can't do something or they can't do this or they got that and they can't do this. But you can accomplish anything you want to as long as you put your mind to it.

Yeah.

And you decide you're going to do it.

Well, and as you do it, and to you, You know, I still fail in that area when it comes to like report writing or even, you know, well, you know, documenting my training or doing an incident.

Yes.

On a K-9 deployment. Sometimes I still struggle with that, you know, and, and but I don't let that so much set me off track as when I, when I recall it. And I know, oh crap, yeah, yeah, well then I just go and do it. Yeah. You know, I just, I get it, I get it done, I knock it out, and then I don't have to worry about it anymore. Yeah. Um, you know, I have, I have been in my, in my patrol car, um, looking for something and stumble across notes that I have not entered, and that is a terrible feeling because I'm like, I don't even remember this day. I remember nothing about it. Yeah. Good thing I made good notes.

Yeah.

You know, but, you know, I think, I think that is, that is a huge part of, of a struggle or a weakness that I have that some handlers may not. They may be very on point with that stuff. I happen to struggle with it. Another thing that comes to mind is, is, is it kind of goes hand in hand. With it, honestly, is that procrastination, putting it off. You know, as a handler, you can expect to be tired. You can expect to work a lot. You can expect those things. And I think as long as you go into it knowing what to expect, then, then you just have accepted it. You know, I know that, you know, I'm always on call. You know, I'm never not on call. I'm the only dog in our department at any time.

For now.

For now. Yeah. For now. I could get called in right now. You know, I know that, that there's things in, in, in our department or with my, my job that I've got to get done and I cannot put it off and I can't use my, well, I'm ADD, I'm scatterbrained. I can't use that as an excuse. That may be the reason why I procrastinate. But I see them almost as two separate issues because, um, one of them hinders me from remembering to do things, and one of them is me knowing I've got to do it and I'll just get to it another day. I think a wise man once said, you know, why do today what you can put off till tomorrow? Isn't that how it goes?

Yeah, I like it.

What's the reasons that goes? Why do today what you can put off till tomorrow? No, that's not it.

Oh crap, man, because if you're like me and you don't get out of tomorrow, there's 10 other things.

Exactly, exactly. Yeah.

Or you can just like do like Hunter and just scatter it to another spot. Yeah, just move it over here. Yeah, move it over here. Yeah. And I think I'll give you a good example of how this—

so yesterday when I was at work, I had a, uh, an accident report. I decided to just wait to do that accident report. I'm like, I don't feel like doing a wreck report. I want to go play. I want to go hunt things. And so me and the sergeant on shift, man, we're watching vehicles, we're chasing some down through the, you know, through town and really having a good time. We're having a blast. And I put off doing that wreck report because we wanted to have fun. Well, come into the shift, toward the end of the shift, we had something big happen. So instead of having just one report, now that I have to, I still have two reports. Yeah. You know, and it works the same with my dog and training records.

So yeah, no, I 100% get it. Whereas I'm like the opposite.

Yeah. Yeah.

I have to get— once I start something, I was here until 1 this morning because I couldn't put something down.

I was at work till 1 in the morning as well. But that's because I put things off. So we were both working at the same time, but For two totally different reasons.

So maybe it doesn't matter. That's it.

But we both put in an 18-hour day.

Yeah, we end up at the same spot. Yeah, it doesn't freaking matter. That's right. But, but I like it because there's a lot of people out there that struggle with the same thing. Yeah, right. And they would tend to believe that they maybe can't do this job because of that, or yeah, can't figure out a way to accomplish your goals because of some of their ailments, you know, personal ailments. But As you've taught, you're able to find ways to overcome those. Yeah. Or you recognize it and you didn't use it. You don't use it as an excuse. You use it as a way to recognize that these are things I just need to work on. Yeah. But again, you, you manipulate and move through, maneuver through it is the better word, knowing that you have, that you have this to contend with.

Yeah.

On a day-to-day basis. I just, I just feel like people shouldn't allow that to hold them back from accomplishing their dreams or their goals. Yeah, I agree. Because this, this, let's go back a little bit, Grant. You have accomplished, you know, a career in law enforcement, a career in training and training handlers and, and all that. You went to school and got your degree. Yeah. And now you're working your second dog. I mean, you've accomplished so many things despite those elements where others may use those as excuses on why they can't do that.

Well, and I think it's just because I like challenges. I like to be challenged, even though I struggle in certain areas. That's why, you know, I've always said, you know, it's hard to have a bad day when you're working a dog. And it's because there's always a challenge there and it's never the same, you know, and which helps my ADD brain because I don't like things to be the same. I like mixing it up.

Yeah.

But, you know, nothing— no two days are alike. No two training sets are alike. You know, there's always something different going on. And, and, you know, it's a challenge. And so, you know, getting my degree and working a dog and being in law enforcement, it's All these things have been challenges that, that is, you know, they're, they're fun for me. Yeah.

You know, I agree. We have a different day every day. Yeah. That's why we love what we do. Or one of the reasons. I can't say that's the reason, but that's one of the reasons. Every day is a different, different day. I'll prove it. Even voice for reason. Yeah, from her perspective and what she does on a day, every day is different for her. So I think that's what keeps us going and keeps us engaged. We love it.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I was going to, I was going to real quick say, you know, for Voice of Reason, you know, she, she gets her hand in so many different things from, you know, putting, putting on this podcast to approving my t-shirt design that I have for this.

So, Voice of Reason, did you approve his? Uh, no, it's still in the, in the thought process.

Well, it's been at least 8 months, so we need to get on it.

Well, she also suffers from procrastination and— oh, okay, ADHD. I put on, you know, 8 months ago, and now hopefully— what can you— what should you approve today that you can't approve?

Yeah, right.

Being a wise man, I just—

yeah, I think so, but Anyway, I got some, I got some great t-shirt ideas coming soon. CCU store.

Yeah, here we go. Uh, but if I haven't told you, Crane, yet, I just wanted to just let you know, thank you for your service. Welcome.

I'm proud to do this.

Thanks for being one.

Oh yeah, yeah, thanks for being one.

Another inside joke. Sorry, I hate to do it. It's funny to me. Yeah.

And me.

And yeah. So, but, you know, despite the personal challenges that we deal with, we also have to deal with challenges with our dogs. Yeah. And we've probably driven home this point more than we need to, but it's not easy working with another living creature and getting them to think the way we want them to think, to work the way we need them to work. Because if there's a time that a dog can embarrass you, it's at the right time.

Oh yeah.

When they don't need to embarrass you. Right. But learning all those things as a handler, and you mentioned earlier, you have to put your hands on the leash. You have to get out there despite those personal struggles, you can't avoid training. Yeah, you can't avoid deployments. You can't avoid those things because that's only going to make your problems worse.

Yeah.

Which you're going to have a lack of success, a lack of return on investment for your agency, and those acronyms that continue to pour out and you begin down that slippery slope.

Yeah.

So As you got a new dog, what are some struggles that you've seen handlers have to deal with? And this is a great thing because not only have you handled two dogs, but you also have trained hundreds of dogs in your career. So what are some commonalities of struggles that you see? And before you answer that, I need to say this, because if there's people listening that are having problems or having struggles, Let me just assure you, you're not alone. Yeah, we have traveled the world. We've been blessed to go to the ends of the earth, almost, if you believe what Simon believes, that there is an end.

Because yeah, he's a flat earther.

Yeah, so, uh, we've been there. But, uh, and handlers around the world are all the same. We all deal with the same issues. We're just scared to admit it sometimes, or we just think that we're alone in the problems that we're dealing with. So what is one of the common things that you've— common problems that handlers have that you've seen consistently that they've had to deal with?

Exposing their weakness with somebody else. It takes them— it takes them out of training. They will refuse to train because they're scared that someone else is going to see where their struggle is. And we all know that canine world. There's some handlers that that's all they want to do is, haha, look at that guy. He looks like an idiot. His dog sucks. He sucks. All that stuff. And nobody wants to be there.

But let me cut you off because I'm going to give my public service announcement.

Another PSA. Yeah. Second one.

Second one. They're getting it all.

Yeah.

This episode only because I'm with my friend. And I feel safe. If I ever hear a handler talking bad about another handler, at least in any training that I'm running, I'm going to tell you not so politely to leave and get the F away from me because I won't stand for that. Yeah. If we're not there to help and encourage and be beyond pointing fingers, we should be the first one to step up and say, hey man, how can I help? Versus sitting there and pointing fingers because you probably have worse problems than that. Yeah. Was there sitting there laughing and joking and pointing fingers?

And nobody wants to ever admit, here's this issue, I don't know what to do about it.

Right.

You know, because, you know, there's, there's, there's a sense of as a handler, there's a sense of I know what the heck I'm doing.

Yeah.

You know, and, you know, when we don't know what we're doing or how to fix an issue, sometimes it's hard for You know, that type of person to reach out to someone and say, hey, do you mind looking at this set with me, man?

I'm—

I don't know what's happening. You know, there every— you know, I know for me there's that fear of failure, but also, you know, you— no one likes— and not just me, but I've seen a ton of handlers scared to ask for help because they're afraid that it discredits what they do.

Yeah.

You know, and I think it's a killer for, for handlers.

Well, that's a, that's a quality that handlers need to have is the sense of knowing when to ask for help and when to seek out mentorship and all that. Remember, I told you guys, one of the struggles that I had, the largest struggle that I had is I had nobody to turn to. I was isolated. —was on this island. And I can hear stories of Sergeant Pugh with the MWD program. I remember it. And I don't even remember if he will ever remember me telling you this, but it resonated with me so bad that I told him, I was like, Sarge, you need to make sure you tell other hammers about this. But he shared a similar story when he was deployed. And I'm not going to steal his thunder, but I just want to touch on this. When he was deployed and he was— felt like he was on an island with his first dog and he was a new handler and he was isolated. He was shunned. Nobody wanted to help him. And he just felt so sick about where he was for the year he was deployed at that time. And, you know, just having bad thoughts and, you know, it's just terrible to be in that position. And but if you are, if you won't share, or at least find somebody that you can trust, then I can understand that. And so you even mentioning that just really resonates with me on so many different levels. Yeah. Because of that. Yeah.

And, you know, K9 is a, is, is a close-knit community. I mean, you know, we, we've been fortunate enough to, to know handlers all over the place and have become friends with, with handlers. And then there's some that we've trained that we're glad we're not still training, you know. And, and I think, you know, I think when you get in that, you know, stuck, you where you feel stuck with an issue with your dog or maybe an issue in training, maybe something you've screwed up and you don't want to admit that you caused an issue. Yeah. You know, it's hard to reach out for help. And so, yeah, I think that's probably one of the, one of the top, yeah, that I've seen and that I've actually kind of felt, you know, it takes a lot to, to go and say and call up somebody, whether it be a trainer or, you know, a friend that, that, that is got a successful, is successful in that area or whatever and ask for some help. Yeah.

Well, let me tell you about another common issue that I see is that handlers— and Josh Raggio brought this up in a previous episode. If you guys haven't listened to that, it's also a great episode. And he told me for dog trainers, one of the biggest— one of the things he said was one of the biggest issues is the overflow of information. Readily available. And so I'm going to catapult off that. And a big issue that I see with handlers is believing everything they hear. You have to have a good factual foundation in what you do as a handler. But not everybody, even if they have a lot of time under their belt, has the answers.

Yeah, I would say, I would say this. If, if the person or the outlet that you're getting information from, if they can't bring it back to science, move on. Yeah, answer the question.

Yeah, yeah. Why is that going to work?

Yeah, if they can't bring it back to the science, move on. Because just because you give instruction on something doesn't, doesn't mean you know the why.

But that also goes back to, you know, a veteran handler. Yeah, like 'Oh, I did this with one dog this one time and it worked.' So it's going to work for all dogs at all times. And that's not the case. It's not the case. And I always caution handlers to stick to their foundation. Yeah. I mean, this is not rocket science. I have accomplished handling two dogs. Yeah. So we know it's not rocket science. Yes. So with that being said, it's pretty simple to handle a dog, right? There's some foundational pieces there. And I'm not— I'm saying it's simple in the sense of we don't have to dig too deep for the answers we're looking for. Not that it's a simple thing to do, as we talked about. But with that being said, we sometimes just make it more complex than it has to be. We're looking for answers versus just sticking to training plans. Going back to our foundation and we're trying to get answers from everybody, but we haven't found the reliable answers like what you're saying is asking the questions. Okay, great, man. I appreciate the help. Now, why would that work? And if that person can't tell you the science on why that would work, then stay away.

Well, and I think the canine world also has that stigma of people saying you need to do X, Y, and Z with your dog. Yeah. And, you know, like, I'm going to do it. I'm ripping the Band-Aid off. Ripping the Band-Aid off. Don't do it.

All right. We almost got through.

Yeah, I know. I'm going to— right now is where you're going to have a listener get really mad at me because I'm going to say I've got two examples in mind and I'm just going to go and say both of them. Okay.

If I'm going to step over here.

Yeah, you step over there. This does not reflect the view of AJ Vargas. But it probably does. Yeah. Or Custom K9. This is my opinion. This is my opinion. And, you know, when you have— and I'm not talking about if you're working Schutzhund or any other dog sport. I'm talking about for the police working canine, you know, a dog that is at a police department. And is being utilized to effectively work in the real world, if you are still using hot dogs for your dog to track, why? Because I'm going to tell you right now, if I'm running from your agency, I'm going past every dumpster I can find. And, you know, and I'm going to make you question, is my dog pulling pulling over there because of the food or because there's a person there. You're never going to know. And, and here we go. This is going to be a big one.

How many contracts have we lost because of cred? Well, I know.

Yeah, I know of one. I don't know why it's a pet peeve of mine. You don't have to use hot dogs to get your dog started tracking. I'm sorry, you do not. You know, and you're going to have some emails on this one, AJ Vargas, but you better believe it. And hey, yeah, forward them to me because you know what will happen if I do?

He'll never answer.

Yeah. Yeah. Because I'll put it off. I'll put it off. I'll procrastinate or forget about them. And then I'll go ahead and go a step further. And this one, AJ, is really going to piss somebody off. And that is if you are training with your dog between your freaking legs to clear a building with your dog, you're nitty. There, I said it. I said it. I said it. I said it. Yeah. And, you know, what's funny is I just, I just talked about not making fun of other handlers, and I apologize that I just kind of was.

But did you make fun of them?

No, I didn't. I didn't. I didn't make an assumption about them. And no, you're not an idiot. But I would, I would just to kind of piggyback off what you said earlier is why.

Why? Yeah. Why does that make sense?

Yeah, it comes back to, hey, an animal with a mind of his own and a will of his own under your junk while there is a situation going on.

We gotta—

whilst you have a bad guy or bad guys or whatever. I don't know, I just, I don't get it.

But I'm gonna— yes, I'm definitely getting called.

Yeah, sorry, but it's okay.

Yeah, it's okay. You know, because it's just an opinion.

And the reason why I bring those two things up, and just because I think that it's unnecessary or doesn't have a place in police canine, doesn't mean that you have to see it my way. No. And that's the point I kind of want to make.

But I think the point comes down to the root cause of what you're saying, of the root, the foundation of what you're saying, right, is that people wasting time training things that are not viable to—

yeah, or, or unnecessary just because someone else, uh, tells you that you should do that. Yeah. Or tell us— yeah. Or it's for good for social media. Yeah, whatever it is, you know. Is— does it look cool? Yes, it looks cool. Is it great look of control? Yes, it's a great look of control. Is it practical when gunfire starts? No. Yeah. So, um, but anyway, I I digress.

Maybe the challenge should be, is maybe some people need to come in and tell you. Yeah. Tell us what the practicality.

Yeah. And maybe I haven't seen that side because— but my—

but let it be somebody that actually works a dog for real. Yeah. Like, yeah, don't be, you know, a TikTok influencer or whatever they call these people because I don't know. And you do it in your backyard.

Yeah.

Yeah. Dress up for fun. Right. Right. Yeah. All this gear, you dress up for fun and you have trained a dog to walk between your legs and put some music by it and people love it.

Yeah. We don't want those. We don't want those.

I want somebody that has actually deployed their dog like that. Like that. And it's practical.

Yeah. And we could also learn from that. Yeah. Because You know, we can learn so much from each other. I mean, in the canine world, you know, I have observed certain things that I go, well, that's dumb. Well, maybe it's because I don't understand it. Correct. And if I had some more clarification or understanding, then maybe it would change my mind. And just because someone tells you you have to do it or don't have to do it doesn't mean that's right for you and your dog. You know, if it's— I don't know. I say, well, prove me wrong.

There's just also not many agencies that I know that are working their dog off leash anyway. Right. And are going into a gunfight with their dog. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, if I know it's a gunfight, I'm not probably going to have my dog. Yeah. I'm going to have my gun.

You're right. So that's— I guess that's where we're at.

Well, you can have both, but why?

Yeah, yeah. So now I gotta manage this and manage that.

And now that, that is in the event that we're not talking about a tracking scenario, by the way. Yeah, um, yeah, tracking your dog's not going to be between your, you know, under your nuts.

Yeah, there you go. But maybe, but again, there's various perspectives.

Yeah. And maybe we just need to understand. Yeah. So if, if you have, if you The challenge is, is if you deploy your dog between your legs in a building clearing scenario in real life, not in training, but in real life, and it has— can you say— made you safer or made your team safer or assisted you in catching and whatever the bad guy, whatever. Please let me know. I would be interested.

Would you fly out to them to learn? If that was the case.

Are you paying for it? Yeah, I'll definitely do that. So if anybody— if you work in a department in Hawaii and that's how you train, please let, let me know. And AJ has admitted on, on camera that he's gonna fly me out there.

Well, they got Hawaii, Georgia, by the way.

No, they don't. That's called Savannah.

Okay, there we go. But You're absolutely right. You know, a pet peeve of mine is wasting time training on things that have no application, especially in— this is the hard thing, right? Is because for a police or a military working dog, it's a different perspective because it's real life. Things matter. Yeah. I don't have the luxury of going out and getting some video content and having a little bit of fun because everything I do points to me being sued or avoiding me being sued, uh, prosecuting cases successfully. And so dying, dying could be one of them, getting other people hurt. Yeah. And because of that, I need to spend every moment perfecting that skill set versus working on stuff. And that's what I used to always say to our teams is, okay, well, you must be perfect. You must be a perfect team because you're working on shit that doesn't matter. Yeah. So why are we training stuff that doesn't matter? It must be because you're perfect.

Watch this. Bang, bang, gel, single doll, roll over. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's just, it goes beyond me in that type, that type of thinking. Now again, to each is their own. Yeah, yeah. I'm just giving my perspective and obviously, yeah, yeah, just because I say it it's so doesn't make it so.

Yeah. Um, I just, you know, opinion. That's just my opinion.

Yes. Okay. Yeah. But that's okay.

And I apologize to Oscar Mayer because, you know, nothing against your hot dogs. Yeah.

But unnecessary. Yeah. All right. So we've talked about the criteria. I mean, not criteria, but some of the traits. Yeah. And make a good handler. Some of the things that we've seen throughout our time together. And again, we could probably spend a whole episode on some of the things that we've seen and things that people deal with now that are not advantageous to their success. So I will open this up. Maya, you could post this, like, if you need some reliable people to talk to or some mentorship and you are a law enforcement or military handler and you just need some perspective, you need help. With problems, please reach out to us. And if we can't do it, we have somebody that can. Yeah, that'll spend some time, call you if they're in your area. We probably know someone with a solid foundation or training in your area. I know a whole bunch of people. I know you do. Our network is pretty vast in the resources we have. What we want is your success at the end of the day, and I never want you to feel like you don't have the resources available to you to help you. So send us a message and I will connect you with somebody, or we will get you connected with somebody that can assist you and help you and answer some questions. Now, you may not like the truth, yeah, but at the end of the day, you're gonna get it.

And, um, well, realizing that our competition is not with each other but with our community against the bad guys. Correct. That is our competition. It's not I'm, I'm competing with my brother here and trying to be better than him. I'm wanting to bring him along with me so that we can be successful and get the people that need to be got, get the dope off the street, keep people safe, keep people safe, find that child, whatever the case may be. Um, that's That's who we're in competition with.

We're on the same team. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Which is kind of a crazy perspective, right? Yeah. When we probably fight amongst each other. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, brings back a lot of stories as well, but we won't delve into that. We can be here a whole nother episode, a few hours. Maya has to go home today. Yeah. Eventually. So, um, now back to work or not. Uh, you're on call. Yeah. But through all of this, all these great stories and memories that I've had, uh, especially with you, Craig, like we've, we've grown with our experience, finally. And that's, I think that's the thing that we're both blessed with, is that we've had an abundance of experience. And that's what separates the tit from the tat in a lot of regards. Why is that so funny? My voice— do you find that funny? That funny? I think it's funny.

I've never heard anybody say that's what separates the tit from the tat. Never heard that before. But anyway, continue. Can I not use— no. Yeah, yeah, this is great.

Okay. So you can say what you want to, but I can't. You see how I get treated, Mom? This is why I told you to host the podcast. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

Yeah, I apologize.

He got 4 views on his last, and now he's saying, okay, okay, I'm a big deal. Okay, here we go. You are a big deal. So we learn from our lessons, right? We're— we got separators here, and some of that is— and a lot of that is this new experience. We're never scared of learning. And I think that's why you open it up for someone to teach you why that's a viable option or a viable tactical option to train, because you're never scared to learn. Yeah. And I know I'm certainly not. I've spent almost two decades wanting to learn and gain knowledge, and I can't count the number of years— well, I can count because me and Sergeant Spears talks about this— the amount of years I spent trying to learn more about the MWD program. I didn't come from the military. So that was something foreign to me. I know dogs. I know working dogs. I know training. That's easy. But there are some very specific intricacies that each demographic holds— police, MWD, military working dogs— in the ways that they train, their terminology, the references that they use. And I spent a lot of years just studying them and studying how they train and studying what their philosophies are and what their thought process— not from one person, but from many. You cannot go wrong with gaining that experience. But those lessons have taught us a lot. These struggles have taught us so much, and despite many, many, many, many, many, many, many shortfalls, we've used those to our advantage to attempt to keep people from making the same mistakes that we were subjected to. And I think that's the value in what we do. Even in this podcast. Yes, we made some jokes or made light of some things. It wasn't to downplay anybody. Yeah. Because sometimes you don't know what you don't know. Yep. Maybe some other idiot taught you to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But it goes back to the question of why. And that's one thing that we say here since day one. If you may do everything right, you don't know why. But if you don't know why, you're wrong. You're 100% wrong. You have to know the why. And as a handler, you have to know why. More so, most so in the law enforcement, military standpoint, because there's one day you're going to probably have to raise your right hand and answer for what you have done. And if you don't know what you're doing and why you're doing it, you're going to be subject to losing cases, being sued. And all those other things. So it's, it's very much a game of knowing why and knowing the reasons why. And so that's why we harp on that so much. I would never teach from my own opinion. I teach from my experience. I teach from what case law tells me. You develop, uh, lesson plans based on those principles because at the end of the day, that's what sees us through. Yeah, the smoke You can dispute anything you want to, but you can't dispute how the cases are being ruled. You can't dispute the reliability that's been ruled upon, you know, based on a judge or a jury. You can't dispute that. You may not like me, you may not like the way I train, but at the end of the day, you're fighting a battle that you're not going to win because what we're teaching falls in line with those parameters that are being set for us. And there's a lot of cool stuff I like to do. I teach my dog to walk between the legs. However, it doesn't lend to my reliability and my safety and the tactics that law enforcement already knows. Yeah. And when we start getting outside that box, we begin to build other skill sets. And remember, in stressful situations, we fall back into muscle memory. Yeah. And when muscle memory hits, then our minds, our bodies react to how it's been conditioned. And if that's not within that framework, it's going to mess things up. It's going to slow our reactionary time down and possibly get us injured or others injured. So why would I step so far out the box when I can accomplish this in another way that keeps us within that framework? So those are, I think, just questions that we've learned over the days, over our time, to answer in matters of which, man, yeah, man, that'd be cool to do. However, the reasons why we don't do that is because XYZ. We can give you a list of reasons why we don't do them, and you might be able to give me a list or two reasons why you do do them. It just doesn't equal up. And those are things that we have to make decisions on based on that. Yeah. No. And being consistent. So what advice would you have for some aspiring canine handlers?

Well, you know, never feel like you know it all. Oh, that's a good one.

Um, for sure, Riza does that.

Yeah. Yeah. Never feel like you know it all. Don't be afraid to ask for help. Don't be afraid to network with, with handlers that— this is the important part— that make you better. All right. If I'm, if I'm training in, in a boxing ring, I don't want to always train against people I know I can win against. I don't. I want some that are going to make me work hard. So, and then, and then do what's got to be done. I mean, do the necessities. Get your training in, get your documentation in, take care of your dog, take care of your, your other equipment. You know, be responsible, be a responsible handler.

Man, I can play that, that little blurb, that 2-minute blurb that you just gave and give everybody the key to success. Yeah. I mean, because you like, you wrapped it up very nice and these things. Hey, you got to do these things. And it seems like it's a long list and a long, you know, a lot to do. But once you condition yourself to do it, it's, it's pretty simple.

And listen, you're not going to do great 100% of the time. In the times that you, you flub something up, you got to move on. You got to go, okay, you fix the issue and you move on. You had a bad set, you got to fix the issue, move on. Had a bad deployment, had a bad deployment, fix it. Move on. You, you know, whatever. You, you, your dog got injured, maybe because you put them in some, in an environment that they shouldn't have been in. Whatever. You've got to accept it, fix it, correct it, and move on and then start again brand new on the other side of it. Or else you're just going to get stuck in the same thing. And what's going to happen? Because, you know, I've battled this in, in training as well, is what happens is you're, you're gonna just go, you're gonna just stop doing something because it's, you know, you— and then, and then laziness will creep in and then you just won't do it. Yeah. Fix it, correct it, move past it.

Yeah. Well, I said this on a previous, and I'm going to drive this point home, as handlers, we're only as good as our last deployment. And if we think about that, if you're successful, if your last track, you found the dude, you're the best thing in that department. Yeah. Yeah. It's when you don't find them. It's when you don't find them, then you hear the words, you suck. You know, that dog never finds anybody. That's the worst dog I've ever seen. I'm not calling them out no more. You know, the list goes on. So you got to have that thick skin. Yeah. Your peers are going to judge you. Most times people have nothing to do with the dog program, have no knowledge of how dogs actually work. They think these are some magic tool.

That, you know, I just turn the key and they think just because you called them out there and they think there's dope in the car, your dog's supposed to alert, right? Yeah.

It doesn't work like that. It doesn't work that way. So for the admin that are listening to this, they also need to know that. Yeah. Don't believe everything you read on the internet, guys. You don't know this. Everything on the internet is not true. You know, anybody, any idiot like myself Yeah, can put anything on the internet and guess what? The internet will accept it. So with that being said, you know, find yourself some people that can mentor you. And I remember in Bible study, uh, in, in a men's Bible study, this being preached to me, you can pour out of your cup and try to bless other people, but you also have to pour into your cup as well. Yeah. You got to keep that equal balance. Yeah. So in faith and in handling— yes, you got to mentor other people, but you also have to find other mentors that can help you to continue to pour into your cup.

And as you pour into others, it's also true you can't give out what you don't have. Yeah, that's right. So, you know, for those who are who love to be critical, and, and sometimes I even fall into that, who love to be critical of another team. It may even be— it may be something you've never done with a dog before, and yet you're critical. It's hard to, to pour out what you don't know. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, yeah, I can be critical of it, but if I don't have experience or the knowledge, it's hard for me to, to correct somebody, you know. So I'm asking for the, for those experiences.

I, I would agree. Yeah, I'm open to it. That's the first thing. Yep. So those that are looking for mentorship, again, reach out to us and we can point you. Now I have a rule, and I said this on another podcast, and I know people don't like hearing this, but I'm pretty upfront with style and, and all that. Don't expect somebody to give you stuff for free, and I'm not saying monetarily. There should also be a level of commitment. Yeah. Right? So I, this is my rule. First and foremost, I'm only going to pour into CCU handlers, trainers, and people that have been trusted in us. That's a rule of mine. Because I get dragged in so many different directions at times. And if I don't cut things down, streamline it, I will spend every waking moment not running the company, not putting out content like this, but answering people's questions and helping them. Yeah, unfortunately this is a business, and part of that is, is I want to give my full attention to people that have and trust it in CCU.

Yeah, well, but that's, that's the great thing about having a network of people that you have influenced and, and stuff, is although you may not be the one that has that, that can pour into that person who really needs that help and it's a legitimate need, chances are we've got somebody that we have poured that knowledge of training experience in that can reach out, that can help, who has the time, who has the resources to reach out and issue that, that help to that person.

So yeah, I just don't want to make the statement like, oh, we're going to help everybody. Oh yeah. And then people, well, you lied. Yeah, yeah, you didn't help me.

We're helping you by telling you to go find somebody. Yes.

And if you need some guidance on someone that can mentor, absolutely. Yeah. We will help point you in the right direction because there's not very many places at this point that we don't know at least one person in that area or at least close to you that can help. It is important to us. But, you know, as we look at the industry as a whole, right, what are some changes? What's one thing you would like to see change in this industry? Because you've been around a long time, but like, yeah, you're old. I know.

So, hmm, I think, I think it's the same change that, that I've always wanted. The, the, the change that, that, that was the driving force behind why I I walked in this, this path anyway, is to give this industry an opportunity to not just have another snake oil salesman and somebody that's just full that, that, you know, because this industry is also unfortunately full of greed and full of deep pockets, or, you know, and, and you know, I want money because I want to have this. And if the driving force is so that you can have more stuff, shut the door. The driving force should be to make people successful. There you go. To put out teams that are jammed up, to change the, you know, the temperature of this industry. You know, someone's told me one time, you know, what's the difference between a thermometer and a thermostat? You know, a thermometer just tells you the, the temperature of the room. The thermostat changes the room. Yeah. And so in an industry we want to be— and I would— and not just CCU, but what if all canine vendors did the same thing all across our nation? It's not a perfect I know it's never going to be perfect, but just think about the impact that, that we would have if vendors that provide, provide dogs to our law enforcement agencies or military, where it wasn't about the almighty dollar as much as it was making great teams that go out there and put in the work and, and, and, you know, and be a thermostat in the industry. So I think, I think the change that I would like to see in the industry is what I've always wanted to see, is trainers committed to giving their best whether they get anything or not. You got to run a business, you got to have money to run a business, but who, who give knowledge and, and who, who give their students, their handlers, their best, and not just some leftovers to make a buck.

Yeah, there's nothing else to be said. I mean, I've got to end it on that because the challenge is for all of us to be a thermostat and make change, make change to make better handlers, make better trainers, make better influencers within our industry. Yeah. I mean, that preaches. That ends a wonderful time that I got to spend with a good friend of mine, my brother, my— someone that I call to and call on very often for advice. Your dad. My dad, stepdad. Daddy.

Tell your mama.

Speaking of I love you, sister. I love that girl. So many memories. So many memories. But as a recap, just real quick, you know, we want handlers to be patient. We covered that. We want you to find mentorship, stick up to the challenge, and some of the things that you've been challenged to do even despite some adversities, way through those adversities. But also, I think, again, I want to echo the fact of finding good mentorship and good people that you can trust and surround yourself with. Every profession has them. Every successful person has them. And it just coincides with what we want for this industry, which, which is to be a professional industry. Without the stigma of being snake, uh, selling snake oil, whatever you call it, you know, um, that smoke and mirrors mentality, if you will, given the raw perspective without sugarcoating it. I mean, that's what we do. That's the cloth that we're cut from. We can't accept that. You may not like what I say, but it's going to be the truth. And You know, I think a lot can be said by that. As long as I know where you stand, I'm good with that. Yeah, but we got to do it the same way. No, we don't. But I definitely will steal something from you. I'll give you credit for it. Yeah, but I do it all the time. I learned so much from handlers that I teach and have an opportunity to watch work their dogs. I ask questions. I'm engaged because that's an opportunity I have to learn and I would never want to miss that opportunity that I could maybe pass on to another handler and help them. So be a thermostat, like Kryn says, be a thermostat for change, to change the climate of our industry. I like that. I'm gonna use it. I'm gonna put that on a shirt. Can I get that approved, please? In the pipeline. It's in the pipeline. Maybe approve it tomorrow. But I don't want people to forget that we give free content because we really truly want to help people. Yes, we can't delve in and give like everything because there's a lot of topics that take a lot of training. Like, I can't teach you to be a trainer from a podcast. Yeah, you know, we, we can give you tidbits, we can give you, uh, this as much free content as we can, but we also offer Short Sets on Tuesdays, which is a great middle of the week type.

It's like between the tit and the tat.

Between the tit and the tat. But listen, don't lose this perspective, Maya. I've taught him something. You have taught him something. So every opportunity is an opportunity to teach. After 20-odd years, I'm still teaching this fool sucker. Yeah, despite him fighting against it and not giving me credit for it. He's going to go on and tell But he's gonna screw it up because he's gonna tell Sandy, I want to see your tack for a tip. That is true. So I want to see your tick for a tack or something like that, right? Yeah.

So that's what I'm saying, everyone's getting cut.

Damn, that's not going to make the final cut, man. All right, but don't forget, our Tuesday Short Sets, it's just something, it is what it is. It's a short set to, to spark maybe some thinking, give you some ideas for training. I love those Tuesday Short Sets because it doesn't take a lot of time for our listeners, and it's something that may evoke your thinking for training for the week. And that's, that's a great thing. I encourage everybody to listen that listens to this, this gain one thing, because that's all we aim to do, teach somebody one thing out of this at each and every episode. And we've done that. We've done our job. Those listeners that haven't already, please subscribe and share this. There's so many handlers out there, so many trainers, so many in our industry that can benefit from. And we bring on different topics every single week that, you know, we hear from our listeners that they want to hear about, or even stuff that we think, oh man, somebody needs to hear about this. Yeah, we have great guests like Grant on Sometimes it's just me and the voice of reason. Sometimes it's just me and Stinky. You know, at the end of the day, there's something to learn from everybody, and I don't ever want to lose that opportunity. Yeah. Yep. Grant, I appreciate you. Yes, sir. I love you, man.

Love you, man. Enjoyed being here.