Social Media Marketing, Personal Protection Dogs, and More with Lacey from @K9_Arras_and_Aya

Welcome everybody to Source Everything Working Dogs. I'm excited for this Friday episode because this is our long episode. Remember, Tuesdays we have short sets. To kind of get everybody into the training mode and get them ready for the rest of the week and get some training in. But now we're on this long set and we have the privilege to talk with Lacey this morning and just talk dogs and business. That's just so awesome. You have a lot of experience, and, uh, so I'm excited for people to learn from that. Please introduce yourself and tell, uh, tell everybody a little bit about you.

I'm Lacey. I had got my first protection dog from CCU over 10 years ago. I can't believe it's been that long. Like, it seems like yesterday, but yeah, I can't believe it's been that long. I'm now on my third dog. All of them have been to CCU and they're all, yeah, amazing. I wouldn't go anywhere else.

And we're so thankful. And I say this Oftentimes we just got over the holidays and I'm thankful for the relationships that I have. I, I kind of mention that pretty often, right? Because dogs bring people together and whether we're here or we're on the other edge of the earth, it's great to have dogs in our lives and it just naturally gravitates people together. And I think that's what gravitates me to this industry is those relationships, people that I would've never met if it wasn't for dogs.

Right.

You being one of them. When I first met you, I remember meeting you and, you know, kind of specing out what you guys were looking for and then you getting your first dog. Can you remember that time?

Yes. And now looking back, yeah, we got Ares and I knew nothing about working dogs. Nothing at all. I knew that my other half traveled a lot and I wanted something to be there with me at home and it sounded like a great idea. And then once we saw the dogs work, they're amazing. So yeah, that was what I wanted without knowing what I was getting into, I will say. But it was amazing. Yeah. Like I would never— I wouldn't trade any of it.

Yeah. And that's like the crazy thing, right? Because you have this image of a working dog or a protection dog, maybe you heard about it and then now you see it in front of you. And then the process of getting the dog and now you have this dog at the house. What are some things that you imagined before you got the dog versus when you actually got the dog that were maybe in contrast, right?

Right. I think a lot of, especially nowadays, I think it's almost like people see these cool dogs on social media or TV and want one. And I'm like, they're not for everyone, I will say that. But yes, one of these where you think you hear, oh, it's because we got Ares as an adult, fully trained, and you hear fully trained, okay, he's done, I don't have to do anything. No, that is not the case. Yeah, he knows everything he's supposed to do, yes, but he was also used to another handler. He had to get used to me, which to start with was a little bit like because he's a very high drive dominant dog. I had to prove to him that I was the boss. It took a little while, but we did, and it was great. Then after that, once you get that bond and he understands you're the boss, there's no breaking that bond. Like he and I were— he's the best dog I ever had in my life. Everybody else is just trying to fill Ares' shoes. It was a lot of work in the beginning, especially. Figuring out what do I do with them on a daily basis. It's not a dog that you just like, he chills out and watches TV and hangs out all the time. They require a lot more attention. And one of those where literally your whole lifestyle, I call them lifestyle dogs. It has to revolve around them, their schedule, what they need. If you if they don't get what they need, they're gonna let you know that they're not happy. And it's probably gonna be in a way that you're not gonna be happy with.

And your lifestyle kind of feeds into that because of what you do. You're a business owner, several businesses, and that's what you guys do, right? As a family. And so integrating that dog into your lifestyle wasn't necessarily hard. It was just some adjustments, right?

That you had to make. Yeah.

Um, because he went everywhere with you. You didn't just put him on a shelf and say, okay, well, I'll come back and play with you later or whatever, right?

Right. Yes, he went everywhere with me. I still try to take a dog with me everywhere as much as possible because especially these days there's crazy people everywhere. And as a female, I am now used to having a dog with— go with me everywhere. So the adjustment before, it was a big adjustment to get used to having one. Now I'm so used to having one all the time that I actually had to get gas the other day for the first time without a dog. And it was like, just, it sounds crazy, but just a whole nother level. I would equate it to like, if you're used to always having a firearm on your hip everywhere you go, and then you go somewhere that you can't take that with you.

Yeah.

Like you're on another level of aware of your surroundings and everything, because I'm used to always having a dog that they they don't miss anything. Yeah, I try to always be aware of my surroundings anyway, but if I don't see it or hear it, that dog sees and hears everything.

And I think that's a great thing. I think some of our listeners have heard me say before, I live in a household full of women, and there's nothing more important to me than the women that are in my life. I have a sister, obviously I have a mom, wife, and then I have kids, and they're all girls. And I cannot fathom the idea of something happening to them. So being aware of their surroundings is a big thing. And then having an adult— I can't think of a time, and I've been in law enforcement a long time and been around law enforcement, um, since I started my career back in my— back when I was— before I was even 20. But I say that to say I have yet to hear somebody being attacked. And I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I'm just saying the risk is minimal when you have a dog with you.

Right. I actually had an instance getting gas where I had— I think I was actually on the way to CCU to train, but I had Axe and Aya in the car with me. But Axe was like a tiny little puppy, so he was sitting in the front seat because he used to get carsick and he wouldn't get carsick if he sat in the front. But IO is in the back of my SUV. Well, the windows are also tinted and she's black, so you can't see her unless you get right up to the car.

Yeah.

And I'm pumping gas and I see this guy walk out of the gas station and I see him kind of looking in the front of my car, which is odd to start with. But then I thought, but there is a puppy sitting up there. People love puppies. Like, okay, I didn't say anything. And then he walked around the back of the car. I still kind of kept an eye, and I have the door open when I'm getting gas. I always have like the door open right beside me. I is right beside me right here, but there's also a window down. And he walked around behind and kind of like popped out, which you can just tell when something makes you feel uncomfortable, like something's not right, it's odd. And then his question was, is that a full-blooded canine? And I'm like, okay, the question's odd too, but yeah. And Aya, I guess, did not like either his quick movement or him talk— like popping out, whatever. And she just barked. She didn't come out, even though she easily could have come out if she wanted to, but she just like let him know that she was there, I guess.

Yep.

And to be nice, because I don't know, maybe he didn't mean any harm or was just curious about the puppy. I said, yes, they are. And then he literally just turned around and walked off after I barked. So I'm like, I don't know his intentions. Yeah, but the whole just deterrent of having a dog— I mean, I hope to never have to use my dog, obviously.

Yep.

But the deterrent of having one there just in case makes people question, do they really want to do that or not?

Yeah, you know, even being in law enforcement, I would have people that didn't care if we pointed guns at them, didn't care if we threatened them with other forms of use of force, but as soon as they heard that dog— oh yeah, people do not want to mess with the dog, right? The dogs— and I always equate it to this— we think about things, right? So As an example, if we had to restrain a teenager, that kind of weighs on us mentally. A dog doesn't think that way. They just perform the way that they've been trained. And so to have that assurance that there's not gonna be hesitation once that dog is trained or in training, part of that training is making sure it's very clear on how they should act in certain situations.

Right.

You know, the dog just knowing like something's just not right. Right. So let me see and try to get, you know, stop this before it goes any further. And then that guy knowing, well, this is not a soft target, right? Yes, I may get away with something, but I also may get sent to the hospital with some very serious injuries. And I'd rather just not do that.

Right.

Rather take that out and, you know, signage or Aya barking just takes the thought out of their head and de-escalates the problem. And, you know, obviously gives you the assurance too that at least I have something there, that level of protection where if something does go bad, I can get out of the situation and my dog's gonna give me that opportunity to do that.

Definitely. Yes. Yeah. Like I said, it's a totally different feeling when now when I go somewhere and I don't have one. That, or even at home. The last time we went out of town and I had brought them to be boarded with you guys, but I still had like a day till we went out of town. I mean, it's just me and the dogs at home, but then literally you take the dogs out and I'm like, what was that? Like all of a sudden normal stuff. I'm just so used to having several of them around. Like even right now there's one laying right here. You know, I always have a dog. Yeah.

So, you know, that's a lot of work too. And I think you mentioned this earlier, it's not for everybody, right?

Right.

And we have had clients that wanna take this dog even after training, the dog's been acting up for a year. We get the dog in training, they want 2 weeks of training. So they want us to wave the magic wand and, you know, change everything that they, that's been going on for the last year and give the dog back to 'em. And they're thinking, just like you said, well, the dog is trained now, and I've heard clients say this, the dog is trained. Yes, it is. It knows what to do, but it still takes the owner to hold them accountable for what's expected. You let a kid do whatever they want to and you don't tell them what time to come home at night, guess what? They're gonna stay out as long as they want to.

Right.

They can't read your mind. They don't understand. You create those parameters and you do a very good job with that. Cause I can remember Axel was a puppy, like you said, and you've went through a year and a half of prep, getting this dog training and being totally involved in that throughout this entire process. And now we're finally getting to the point to where, okay, we're at a good place now where we're making great strides and he understands what he should be doing, but it was a commitment on your end too.

Yes, definitely. I will say having gone both routes. Like getting Iris as an adult fully trained, but then both Aya and Axe I got as puppies and then went through most of the training with them. It's totally different. I have learned so much more doing the training with them from the beginning. I think getting one fully trained, I just thought I knew working dogs until I saw, like you say, all the prep work, what all goes into that. I have learned so much more And the training never stops. So when I take them home, just because you tell me they're fully trained doesn't mean that we stop doing all of those things and they just know what to do.

Yeah.

I would kind of equate it. I always like tell people that don't understand that when they hear, oh, they're fully trained. So I get the question. So how long does it take? When do you get to stop training with them? And I'm like, we don't. They do it forever. Yeah. I equate it to like an athlete. I always say you don't teach them to play the sport. And then never practiced or played sport. Yeah, it keeps going forever.

Yeah, no, that's exactly right. You know, it's very much that continual process because they will learn different behaviors. They will operate in the way that's most advantageous to them, not necessarily you. So we got to hold them accountable for that. And let's really think about it, they love doing it.

Oh, for sure.

They, they love to work. And them sitting at the house on the couch is just not them. It's not in their DNA.

Right. So I promise, if you don't give them a job, they will find something to do on their own. And it's probably not what you wanted them to be doing. I will go ahead and tell you.

But, but you also enjoy it. Like you enjoy coming out to training, you have fun, we joke, we play, we, you know, just have fun with the dogs. And so I even see that it's something that's enjoyable. It's a hobby, right?

Yes. I would say, like I said, they're not for everybody. You either, if you have one, it's either you're hooked and that's the only kind of dog you're ever gonna have again, or that's the last one of those you have and you're not gonna do it again. But if you're willing to put in the work and make it a lifestyle, I promise, like, I wouldn't trade any of it. I couldn't have another type of dog now. It's amazing. Auras started it all. And I like when you see them work and what they're capable of and teaching them things and like, it's amazing. So then, yeah, Auras made me fall in love with working dogs and now I enjoy working with them just as much. Now, I would prefer to be part of it versus here, train my dog and give me my dog back. Yeah, I like doing it where like ours, Axe and Aya, they're protection dogs, but just for fun because we enjoy it, we've trained, as you know, and stuff that's usually not a protection dog thing like tracking or article searches or just because we enjoy doing it and it's something fun I can do with them.

Yep, that's right.

And they love it.

Yep, that's right. Now here's the thing that we also have to make a point of, right? And this definitely wasn't in our show notes, but I got to make a point of it because this is what comes into my head, right? I hear protection dog, I hear you always being involved in training, I hear, you know, you've been working with CCU for over a decade And now I think the people listening to this are going, well, yeah, but that's a lot of money. That's a lot of commitment, not just in time, but also money. And not everybody has that, right? I don't know if I could afford it. So they resort to getting one, a working dog, and then they begin to watch these YouTube videos and they try all this stuff out and, you know, listen to this trainer and that trainer that's teaching them online. What's your thoughts with that?

I would say that especially being at CCU, well, even my own dogs where we have challenges sometimes that we work through, it may look easy to train those dogs, but every single one of them is different and has their own quirks. And just because this video showed you this, your dog may not fit into that mold. Yeah. And it is also just as easy to screw these dogs up and then you have a problem. On your hands as it is to make an amazing dog.

Yeah.

No, I would say stick with what you know is the best. Like CCU, it is worth every penny to know that my trainer knows what they're doing. He's not trying to fit my dog into one mold because like having 3 of them, even though they're all German Shepherds, they're all working line, they all have these high drives. They're all similar, but they're all very, very different. All three of them have different personalities, different drives, different quirks. So you have to make sure that somebody really knows what they're doing and has the experience to be able to handle all those different things. Or when something's, you think going so smoothly, I always say with working dogs, I promise one day you'll think that you're amazing at this and everything's great. And then the next day they're going to show you, you don't quite quite know all of it. So to make sure that when a challenge does arise, you have the right person to help you figure out how to solve that.

That's right.

You can very easily push it the wrong direction.

And that's the hard thing, right? Because we want to encourage people to have working dogs, but there is a cost to that. And when you start taking shortcuts in those realms, it can turn out very bad for you. Or you have to end up getting rid of the dog. So even from a financial standpoint, I'm not saying that you gotta be a, a hundred-aire or a thousand-aire or a millionaire, but you do need to understand that there is a financial commitment to that.

Yes.

I would like to say that from a pricing standpoint, we're fair with pricing and try to do the best for our clients. But when people call us, I ask them upfront, like, what's your budget? And they tell me, well, I don't really know because I don't know what this costs. Well, you might wanna do a little bit of research before you jump into this because you don't wanna get into training and get partway through and then you can't afford to continue. And then now you have, you're stuck in this rock and a hard place.

Right. I will say also though, like, okay, say CCU where a lot of people, I always like gasp when I hear people get these working dogs and then they're like, we're going to PetSmart to train. And I'm like, Lacey, keep your mouth shut, like bite your tongue. So CCU, yes, it's more expensive than like PetSmart or whatever, but what you're getting for training does not even compare. Like it is a whole nother level. And again, if I have a problem or a challenge or whatever, I can guarantee you guys are going to fix it or help me solve it, whatever. It doesn't even compare.

Yeah. And I think I would like to mention too, because I think I would be remiss if I didn't mention this. So you just happen to be close to us. I would recommend that someone that's listening here that's gonna get into this and wants to get in this, I would really advise working with somebody, especially if they have a young dog or they need to do maybe not a board and train, but maybe a one-on-one. Type training program, or they want to be involved like you are, to find a good reputable trainer in their area, right? CCU is not the end-all be-all, which all of us on this call think we are. But the honest opinion for me is— and I just talked to a lady in Colorado not too long ago, same thing, she had 2 dogs and she wanted training— I'm like, I just don't feel like it's cost effective. Yeah, you may have the money to do it, but there's so much that I get to have with you relationship-wise. Trainers get to meet with you, they get to go to your place, we get to train out in public, which is a vital part of what we do in this training program. And somebody in Colorado won't get that, right? Inevitable, you're going to have issues. So now I'm trying to talk to you on the phone. In her case, I just felt like it was better Right. That she find a local trainer. And I just happen to know one that I hooked them up together with. But that's the most important thing. I think you got to find a reputable trainer that is willing to then work and carry you through that process as well and have that mindset that this is a 1 to 4 year deal, right? All relationships are decades. I'm not saying that that's how long it's going to take. I'm saying that it's good to have that relationship because when you do have problems, you pick up the phone, you go, hey, Hey, I'm dealing with this, what should I do? Most times we're gonna say, hey, we need to meet with you, let's set something up and let's work through it. But sometimes we can talk on the phone because we've trained so much together, we talk the same language now.

Right.

So having that local trainer that's knowledgeable, and it does take some work, and I think we'll do another episode maybe one day that on how to pick a a trainer. What are the right questions to ask and what are the things that you're gonna hear that you need to stay away from if you start hearing these things? Because training these dogs does take expertise. I know you've heard us stay away from some things because we said this is not the right way to go with this dog right now. And even though sometimes we get pressure from clients that want this, this, and this, or they seen this, this, and this, or they're part of this you know, particular group that trained one dog one time in their life. Well, we get the advantage to see thousands of dogs and that experience lends us to stay away from a couple of things or a few things in certain situations because it can really cause problems unknowingly. But that experience really puts us in a situation where it will.

I'll say one thing that I love about training with you guys is the flexibility. Like you say, we come to CCU and we train, but then you guys have come here and trained in our home with our dogs.

Yeah.

Even gone to the vet with us. We have worked in different places to train because, like I say, all the dogs are different and have their different quirks. And Axe would act one way training at the facility with you guys. But then get him home and he was a totally different dog.

Yep.

Or even a totally different dog at the vet. And so just to have you guys go different places or train different places with us has made a huge difference in Axe.

Well, that's also a great lesson, Lacey, is this, right? Because you have a lot of owners that don't take not just proactive approach, but don't understand that reality. Again, I go back to, oh, my dog is trained and now I'm just going to bring him back into my home after 2 weeks and he's finished. And the promises maybe that some trainers give them, I'll tell them upfront, is not true. Behavior takes time to modify and change, and so does consistency, right? Some behaviors do change pretty quickly, but there's some that don't. And again, I go back to, so for a year this dog has been acting up and you've been allowing it, and you want us to just wave a magic wand in a week or two and fix it? Yeah, we can start working on it and we can be an integral part of your training plan for the duration and help you save money by doing one-on-one, by changing the format a little bit to help save on that budget. But at the end of the day, either you're gonna do the work or we are.

Right. Well, and also, even if you do fix the dog and send it back home, if when the dog comes back home, if I don't keep up whatever y'all have done, yeah, he's gonna go right back to whatever he was doing before because I'm not making him, holding him to any kind of standards or making him do anything.

Yeah, that's exactly right. So can we shed some light? What is your daily routine? You have these working dogs and you just happen to have two now. Again, I wanna pay a little bit of homage to, to Ares because one, that was your first dog, but he was also a great dog and, uh, he passed away after many years this year. But now you have two and you saw this coming, so you began to kind of rotate dogs and make sure you had a replacement. Which is a smart thing to do, right? Aya's getting a little bit older, but now we have Axel that's moving into taking the forefront of the, of the protection of the home, if you will, to include protecting Aya. Now, what does your routine look like?

I will say one of the biggest things with having working dogs in the house, because it is one where Okay, they're not police K-9s where they get to actually go to a job and go work all day, every day. They are protection dogs. They are working dogs, but they have to fit into literally just being a dog in our house also. But a big part of that is our schedule and being consistent. And I start them on a schedule from the beginning, like Ax as a puppy from the beginning, crate training. And not even just like to say crate training and that's what they do at night or when we leave, but they get specific time throughout the day when they're out and we are doing something. And then they may get specific time throughout the day where he goes home. We call it their home. Like I can tell him, I go home and she goes to her crate. They get specific time throughout the day where they get downtime also. And now we're to a point because he is like an a year and a half, I have 6, where even if I don't really put them in their crate during the day, but they will take themselves there because I've had them on such a schedule for so long from the beginning. They know that's what they do. And it's made it good for us because it allows us to, like, I can schedule my day around, like I said, we know when they're out doing something or if they're in downtime, that's when I work and get stuff done. But then also I know when they come out, it's great for me because how they say, like, stand up from your computer every however so long and go walk around for 15 minutes or whatever, that when they come out, I get a break doing article searches or different things like that. I can go throw 3 objects out in the yard. And then by the time she's getting out of her downtime, we're going to go outside and do an article search or two. And she loves it. It gives her like mental exercise as well because it's not just the physical exercise they need. They need mental stimulation also. So different things where all throughout the day we are kind of rotating. They know what they're doing, so then they don't get in trouble either. It's like a kid. They know that we're about to get to go outside to do this or what's expected of them at a given time. Um, even just when we are hanging out at the house, because I have had people where they're like, those dogs with that much energy in your house, how is your house not destroyed? But they know what's expected of them because I have been strict on them from the beginning. And yeah, they get to be regular dogs, not like they're working all the time, but they know what's expected of them now. So as they get older, they don't do any of those things that they know.

Yeah.

Oh, mom, that's not allowed. If one of them does it, you can see the other one. Well, you're about to get in trouble. Yeah. Because they're so smart, which is part of why I fell in love with them. You can just see them, like the wheels turning of them figuring things out. And I try to give them jobs around here, like around home. You know, since I, like I said, they don't have a job that they go to every day, stuff that you can do at home that they still love. We have a pretty long driveway and Axe goes to get the mail every day and he loves it. Now if we walk to the mailbox, there better be something there because he has to carry something back.

But that's awesome to hear because not only are you happy, they're happy, and it's just refreshing to see that. Because so many dogs end up in a pound or just stuck in the backyard, or there's conflict between the owner and the dog because the dog is not doing exactly what they want them to do. But yet we didn't take the time to teach them either. We just got them, put them on a shelf and expected everything to magically work out. And I'm not saying every owner's like that, or I'm not saying that's every situation with bad behavior, But I mean, you've had 3 dogs, 2 of which you were a vital part in raising these dogs, and you haven't had any major issues. Well, either you're the luckiest person in the world or there's something to lend to that, that routine and that process, right? Which is being an integral part of the development of these dogs. And so those that are listening, Even if you're a trainer, making that advice to our clients to say, hey, we not only educate them, but also encourage them to make these dogs part of their lives, but also having boundaries. Like you said, you put them in the crate, you give them downtime. That also what I've seen, because we use that quite often to, to allow the dog to kind of decompress too.

Yes.

Process what we're teaching, but also there's stress. And that gives that dog their little safe spot. It's not a disciplinary thing or anything like that. It just gives them their quiet space. Cuz sometimes, heck, you're married, I'm married. I need to get away for a minute. Like, hey, leave me alone. I need to go to my crate and just decompress a little bit. Right?

Yes. They love their crates. You get the people that say, don't put your dog in a crate or whatever. I always say it's like a teenager having their room. Yeah, they love their crate. Like I said, even if I don't put them in there, they will take themselves home and just lay in there. The door's open. They could come out if they wanted to, but they will still go into their crates, their room, because occasionally— I mean, it is two working dogs. They play. Everything a working dog does is on a different level than a normal dog. So even their playing is on a little bit of a different level with two of them and you can see it kind of sometimes. And then I'm like, okay, y'all need some chill out time. And Aya will take herself home. Yes. Like, Axe, leave me alone. I'm going home right now. We've always made it like a fun place, I guess, a place they want to go to. Even as a puppy, I had a friend that was like shoving their dog in the crate and then putting snacks in there. And I'm like, no, get them to go in and then give them the snacks for paying them for doing what they were supposed to going in. And then they love it. Like they're like, yeah, if I go in here, I'm gonna get a snack. It's a good thing, not a bad, not like punishment. Yeah.

Well, too, there's a lot of advantages to having that resource, even if you never use it. Like you said, they go in there to lay down and relax and get their little time alone. But if there's a case where you have to put 'em in a crate, Right. Uh, there's not that anxiety.

Right.

And these dogs are with you all the time. And when you remember our conversation, when we first boarded Axel for the first time, the fear was, oh man, this dog's gonna have a lot of issues adjusting. We're gonna have some separation anxiety, which we had a little bit of that. However, the time that he spends alone away from you, because he is with you all the time. Lend us a better option to not have that as extreme for the first time he boarded after being over a year old, right? So there's a lot of advantages to having that separation at times, to include there's times when the dog may not like the visitor you have over, and rather than punishing the dog or risking somebody getting bit that shouldn't get bit, hey, just go home. For a minute, right? This person has to be here for a moment. Absolutely. The crate is a great resource for any dog because of that. It should never be used as punishment at all. It should be used as a sanctuary, if you will. So I like that. And the routine, getting up in the morning, feeding them, walking them, integrating them into your daily life and giving them some free time as well, but at the same time, giving them boundaries. It's pretty simple because you've established that routine.

They love their schedule, I promise you that. Like the crate, if there's something you're supposed to do at a specific time and you don't do it, they will tell you that. I used to say Ares wears a watch because I swear he knows what time we're supposed to do everything. They like their routine also.

Yeah, yeah, most beneficial thing. And I don't even think that has anything to do with working dogs per se, just dogs in general. I have two little dogs at the house now that the wife has, and they know, like, they know that schedule, and it just makes it so much easier to manage a dog and really to have them part of the family versus being crated all the time or being locked up in a cage or just stuck outside. They know their manners. They know when to go outside. We've taught the little one to ring the bell at the door so she can go out to the restroom. You know, it's just simple stuff like that where we just spent a little bit of time with them, right? And took the lead on teaching them the things we needed for everything to work out the way that we needed to work out. And now it's easy. And this dog is only, what, maybe 6 months now? And it's, it's just clockwork. Know what time we need to go to bed, know what time we getting up, know what time, uh, gonna eat, ring the bell when you need to go outside and use the restroom. And it's a pup, but yet it was so easy to teach those things because we just spent a little bit of time. Did we have accidents? Absolutely. But we got over those through being consistent in our routine and our teaching and promoting that positive behavior. And then you've done that on the working dog side and you just give them a little bit more exercise, give them some tasks, and it's simple things. Go get the mail, go do this, go do that. And they absolutely love it. And then guess what? Every so often we're gonna go to CCU or we're gonna get some training in.

Right.

It's just a cool thing to see. And now for the next 10 years plus, you're gonna have these dogs part of your life that are just easy to deal with.

Yeah, I definitely think it, or always say it's a lot more work up front, but if you go ahead and do it, it makes everything else easier down the line for the rest of their life. I mean, you have to keep it up, but honestly, it's not as hard keeping it up once they've already got it. And I always get all the time, like, people being like, how often do you train your dogs? And I'm like, it's not necessarily like we're going outside to do obedience right now. Training, you know, it's like things that you do around your house on a regular basis that you just add something into to make them do it. Like sit before I open a door or sit before I put your food down. Even just small, that simple, but they're still having structure and doing something all day long with different tasks throughout the day.

Absolutely. So I know you talk to a lot of people, you're on social media and all this, and you have the privilege of meeting a lot of other dog owners, what are some myths that you've heard that you're just like, what are they thinking?

The first one is I always love when people call them attack dogs or guard dogs.

Yeah.

Because there's so much more than that. I think of like an attack dog as, or a guard dog as like a junkyard dog that like, you cross my fence and I'm gonna eat you, and that's it. That's all I know. There's so much more than that. And while they are protective, if you grabbed me, they're not going to be happy about it, and they know what to do. I think that's part of what I fell in love too with Ares, the dichotomy of he is this serious tough dog that will handle business if he needs to. But yet the Axel loves to snuggle on the couch. They are sweet also. All 3 of mine love kids. Ares would literally let little kids use him as a pillow and like sit on him and they're great with kids. Now, if you touched that kid in a way that wasn't supposed to, he didn't like, was probably not the best idea. But yeah, the dichotomy of them, they're not just like overly aggressive dogs. I had somebody on social media ask me one time, I've got this working line puppy and I'm debating on putting them in like protection training or not, but I have kids and I don't want them to think it's okay to bite. So they want to bite the kids. And my response to her was that I think training them makes them easier to control. If it is a true working line dog, well, it's in its genetics to bite whether you want it to or not, more than likely. But now I have control over that. And now I have taught that dog when it's okay to bite, when it's not okay to bite, who it's okay to bite, and who it's not okay to bite. So now I have more control over the genetics that are already there either way.

That's right. I, I hear that even with police dogs, people call me and say, hey, I got a great police dog. He's bit 4 people. And I'm like, yeah, that's not a great police dog. We need dogs that are social yet can turn on and off like a light switch.

Right.

The days of those types of dogs are far removed. For liability purposes. And quite frankly, people that have protection dogs want protection for a reason. And most of our clients, it's because they're high-value people, right? And they have things that other people want that are of not the best lifestyles, meaning people, you know, want to come and break into their homes or steal things that they own or assets that they have. We want to minimize those risks. And at the end of the day, we can't increase liability with a dog.

Right.

Counterproductive. So it's not the dogs that are out there biting everybody. It's the dogs that are stable. It's the dogs that can learn to read the differences of behavior and also react on command. And that's what we aim to achieve. Now, not every dog is friendly either. You know, they're much like us. Some have different personalities than others, but that's also the importance of finding the right fit. Right. You went puppy route, trained it, raised it, and got to this point. Your first dog, we recommended getting an adult. For one, it's safer medically. It's also, we know what this dog is about or have a good idea of their character and, and all that. So we know what we're putting into your home. The flip side of going puppy route versus adult, you know, it really depends on the situation, but at least with an adult, you really have a little bit more knowledge on how they're gonna be versus the puppy that now you're gonna raise up. And maybe they just have a bad attitude sometimes and don't like certain things.

Right.

But that's okay. We also need social dogs. We really work hard, even with Axel. To be social because that's an important facet of having a protection dog. I hear the same thing, like, it's just, it's remarkable on some of the visions that people have. And maybe it is something that they've seen in the past. Or I've had— I, I remember years ago, this has probably been 14 years ago, when we were at our old facility, and this lady shows up, two dogs in the back of her car, and she just picked them up for a trainer, and she's crying. And I'm like, hey, what, what's going on here? And she says, I can't get my dogs out of the crate. And I said, what? And so she had two Malinois in the back of her truck in a, in two crates. And she says, I can't even get near the crate. And long story short, because the way that these dogs were trained, I'll say it wouldn't be the way that we trained them. But they were literally put in a crate and just antagonized until nobody could get near them. And in my opinion, for one, obviously the lady didn't want that because she can't even touch her own dogs.

Right.

Two, that's not the style of training that we want for a protection dog. Right. We work hard in having that balance, both socialness and turning on when when that light switch needs to turn on. And so it's not that junkyard dog that folks tend to think.

Like I said, ours, yes, they're trained to bite, but they're still the family dog.

Yeah.

So if I have people over or if there are other people in my house, I still want them to be fine with other people being around. Yeah.

Take your dogs everywhere too. What if they just jump out and start biting people?

You know what I mean?

That's not a good thing.

Like, right, well, like at the gas station, the door was open. She could have jumped out if she wanted to. Yeah, I guess. I mean, she obviously saw, well, he hasn't touched my mom yet. He hasn't actually. She just wanted to let him know that she was there. Yeah, which I didn't mind because he was kind of— yeah, she could— was probably reading me that mom's uncomfortable. Yeah, so I'm just gonna let him know. But she didn't come out. She didn't just run out and bite him.

Yep.

Because she knew that she wasn't allowed to do that yet.

That's right. Yeah, that's awesome. I think that's a great myth for those that are listening to understand that these are just not dogs out running around biting everybody and such. Right?

Right.

So now that you've owned these dogs for 13+ years or so, how have you seen yourself evolve with your working dogs since your first one over the last 13 years?

Oh, even just doing all the training with these guys now, I have learned so much. And I will say you never stop evolving. I don't think they're constantly teaching you something new, even when you think that you've got it all. No, they'll make sure that they're gonna test you the next day. But yeah, one of my biggest things lately I have learned, it's totally different. I guess you guys are used to working all these different dogs all the time, but having only worked, like I was just me and Aya working for so long because Oris was already a senior and I didn't have Axe. I was so used to working Aya all the time and that's it. Not another dog. Things get to be kind of like a sport or working out where it's muscle memory. You're just so used to, like, I know how she's going to react. So I'm used to doing the same thing every time. And you get to where you're not even necessarily thinking about it. It's just muscle memory. Well, then you throw another dog into it and Axel is totally different than Aya. And it has been a challenge for me just in breaking a lot of my muscle memory habits of things that I'm used to doing with Aya that maybe we're not to that point with Ax yet.

Yep.

Or just different things work for different dogs. And yes, there have been times where like Simon in training tells me to do one thing and I'm like, crap, I did something different. And I knew I was supposed to do the other thing, but it's muscle memory that is so hard to break.

Yeah.

So that has been my most recent challenge that I'm evolving through is just breaking muscle memory and like stopping to think about, oh, I have to do this different now when I've been for years used to doing it one specific way, and now I have to do different, has been hard.

But yeah, it's crazy that you bring that up because on another episode talking to Phil, and Phil talked a lot about that, how we adjust and have to make adjustments per each dog. Yes. And so you're experiencing a little bit, and you're absolutely right, hitting the nail on the head when it comes to making those minute adjustments because every single dog is different.

They're so different. Like I said earlier, I mean, they all are similar, yes, but Ax and Aya are different sides of the coin. And having to adjust, it can be hard to adjust, go from one right into the other. That has been my biggest challenge where it's like, even things are like, I know what to do, but I did it again. The muscle memory of, I'm so used to Aya. And now acts as different.

Wow, just so much information packed into our talk. It's amazing because we take a lot of this stuff for granted, and it's not until we have these kind of conversations that I'm like, dang, like, I'm just amazed. And, you know, one of the things I'm most amazed with, because of my age. I'm gonna blame it on my age. I'm a little bit older, so I didn't come up in a social media type environment, right? We talked to each other face to face. That's just how we did things, right? Social media wasn't a big part of our lives, but it is now from a business standpoint. And we mentioned a little bit that you've been involved in several businesses, but I say that because I remember a conversation that we had and I needed help. I needed help as a business owner in a small business to catch on to this social media stuff because I knew nothing about it. I'm gonna tell you about dogs, but I need your help with social media stuff. And I remember sitting, uh, at Fort Carson with the kennel master there, and Spears was telling me how important social media was. And I was still fighting with him like, hey, you know, it's not that important, right? Like I can run a business without social media. And at the end of the day, I don't have time for social media. I have time to train dogs because that's what I love to do and that's what I want to do. That's changed. And I think it's important to have a social media presence on our TikTok and other platforms. What you've done for us and really taken us to a whole nother level, even having some viral videos and just knowing that insight. So I want to talk a little bit about that. I'm trying to help those that are business owners, give them a little bit of not just encouragement. I want to drive home the importance of the social media, but also what are some things that they can do, because that's what I see most small business owners struggle with. We've spent— I mean, I'll say it, we spent millions of dollars figuring out marketing, like Literally. But not everybody has that. And so we have to start somewhere because we got to start building. And not that we shouldn't evolve, because we should always evolve as business owners, but I need some advice from you, and I, I need you to give us some advice on how we should start. Let's say we don't have a social media presence, or we have a very small social media presence. What are some things that we can do and some advice that you would give because you gave me some great advice.

I would say to start with, a lot of it are some of the same things that you have to do with your dog. Consistency, consistency, consistency, at least to start with until you have a good base going. It's almost like you have to prove yourself to those social media platforms that you are worth them showing before they will actually start showing you. So Yes, consistently posting. Then I always try to think about not just from my point of view, but also from the viewer's point of view. So not just showing what you want to show them, but what do they want to see? Because you have to keep them engaged. If people don't want to see what you're showing, then they're not going to watch it. And a big part of social media is Playing to that algorithm. I mean, a lot of it in the end is a lottery on TikTok, for example. It is a lottery. You could hit the lottery and get a viral one. I have seen people do it on their second video, but that is few and far between. Realistically, you have to always say, while it's the lottery, we can stack the odds in our favor. A big way TikTok judges which videos to push out is the percent watch time. So how long did a viewer stay with that video before they scrolled? Your biggest thing is you want them to not scroll. The higher the watch time percentage, the more your video is going to get pushed out there. So playing around with how long your video is, your timing. I know at one point it was like 5-second videos were gold. At another point it was 7-second videos. So the algorithm does change here and there. You got to kind of keep up with it. And it's one of those where you might not necessarily know it changed. You'll just all of a sudden be like, our videos were doing great and then something fell off. What happened? And then you just kind of have to start trial and error to see what that video length is again. But like, say CCU, for instance, you know that a lot of people say if you're showing a video of a dog doing bite work, then you know that everybody wants to see that dog get that bite. But then after the action is over, no matter what your video is about, they're going to scroll. So don't drag your video out too long past the action because now that drops your percent watch time. Well, your action was at 4 seconds when it was a 7-second video, so they scrolled at 4 seconds. Where if you would have had a 5-second video and then it's over, well, you got them to watch almost the whole thing or the whole thing. So your percent watch time is super high. Wow. Also, just something as simple as pay attention to what's in your background or in the frame. Make sure it's bright, that people can see you or hear you, because we've all seen those videos where we're like, This is super dark. I don't know what that is. Scroll. Your main thing is to think through how to get people to not scroll. And then that will push your video and gets it out there more. And obviously, the more it gets out there, the more eyeballs you get, the more chances of getting likes, followers, all of those things. But if no one watches it, it's never going to get out there. You don't have a chance of getting those things.

What's so crazy about that is, is figuring out them, right? And what I hear from you—

I was just going to say, every day is trial and error. Every day. And I've had the ones where, like, I worked so hard on a video and I think it's awesome and it does nothing. And then the one where, like, I'm, like, debated on even posting it and it goes viral. Yeah. So you never know what people are going to want to watch. All you can do is stack the odds in your favor.

Yeah, that's crazy because I think about a video of ours that went viral and it's literally a dog jumping on top of a car for a bite, and I'm thinking, this is so lame, literally. But like over 10 million views, right? And I'm just literally nothing. But now that I think about the timing of the action and all those things absolutely hit all those key points. It was bright, it was good action, and the video stopped as soon as the dog got the bike car. And I'm like, oh, okay. So it is a trial and error, and you got to spend time on it, right? You got to nurture it, you got to figure out what's going on in order to do it. Which I think that's the biggest reason why I have problem with social media, because I'm thinking from a trainer standpoint Hey, I want to teach something. I want to have something that's beneficial to people, but that's not necessarily the way you grow.

Well, and once you get a good base or once you have a following a little bit, then you can do more of those like longer videos or teaching something or showing something that like is more educational or—

Okay.

But you have to get the viewers to start with. If you don't have any viewers, you're not teaching anybody anything. Nobody's watching anything, you know? So you gotta get the— I always say you gotta get the eyeballs first. So for small businesses just starting out that have nothing, I would say don't start with a long video to start with. Start with short and simple that are gonna get your eyeballs and your views and your followers, and it gets the algorithm to push you. And then, like I said, once you— it's almost like you have to prove yourself to the platform. But that's why I say the consistency with Instagram. I wanted to quit so many times, and I'm like, just keep going, just keep going. And it was like, once I got over a hump of so many followers or so many videos that have gotten so many views, once you get over a hump— and I don't know what that hump is— but like, once you get to a certain point, yeah, then you've proven yourself and they will push you. Because it was like all of a sudden my Instagram just like took off.

Yeah.

And it just keeps going. Even now, like, say on either platform, one of my big accounts on both platforms are my dogs. I don't actually have social media, but my dogs do. And I haven't even posted on either one of those because I have a different business that took most of my time now. I haven't even posted on there in like a long time. Once in a blue moon I'll put something on there, and I still get alerts every day of likes, followers, because it's like once you get to a certain point, it just starts compounding on itself. And like, they're still pushing my videos of my dogs and my posts that have been up there for a long time, and I haven't even posted. So the consistency, I think, is a big, big thing. And I promise you, to start with, you're going to think like, this is doing nothing. Like, why am I even doing this? But keep going. And it's consistency, I promise you.

All right. There you go. All those small business owners that don't want to invest the time in their social media, either hire somebody barter, do some trading to help each other out, or do it yourself. But either way, you have to make an investment in it in order for it to begin to grow or even have a, a chance for it to grow. And so I think that's great advice. I pull 3 things out of that and out of that lesson that Lacey tells us. And believe me, the, the proof is in the pudding because I've seen your accounts. And, and I've seen what you did with our account and how it grew so fast, but it did take every single day posting, every single day. And then trying to adjust that to the algorithm and chase the gold at the end of the rainbow. But once you got that, then you just see it start just growing and growing and growing. And there was times that we talked and we're like It's not doing nothing. And you're like, I don't know why. Like, I haven't changed anything.

But now I got to just start playing again till you find what your next thing is.

Yep, absolutely.

You'll be thinking you're hitting gold and then they change the algorithm. Yeah.

So last question for you, Lacey, before we get off here and give, give everybody a little bit of a break and allow them to kind of process the information you gave them on here and the great advice you gave them, both from a working dog protection dog standpoint and now from a social media. If there was 3 habits that a small business owner needs to have to grow their social media, what are those 3 habits that they need to do every single day?

Consistency, I would say. Also one that I didn't mention before, but it's social media. So if you get comments or people comment back, talk back to them. They want engagement. Engagement that not only helps your posts go, but people want that. Okay. They wouldn't comment if they didn't want you to respond and pay attention to the details. Like I said, your background, how bright is it? All those different things. It's all in the details, man.

Great advice. I appreciate it so much. I know taking this time out of your day is, um, because your dog's on a schedule, so we're screwing the schedule up. You're running businesses, you're doing so much. So I can't thank you enough for pouring into these— that are these people that are going to listen to this and what they're going to gain from this for spending their time listening to this podcast. This comes out on Friday, so every Friday is our long, every Tuesday is our short set. So thank you so much, Lacey, for the time.

Thank you so much for having me. It was fun.