Choosing The Right CRM for Your Painting Venture

Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast. The mission of this podcast is simple: to help you navigate the financial and tax aspects of starting, running, and scaling a professional painting business. From the brushes and ladders to the spreadsheets and balance sheets, we've got you covered. But before we dive in, a quick word of caution: while we strive to provide accurate and up-to-date financial and tax information, nothing you hear on this podcast should be considered as financial advice specifically for you or your business. We're here to share general knowledge and experiences, not to replace the tailored advice you get from a professional financial advisor or tax consultant. We strongly recommend you seeking individualized advice before making any significant financial decision.

This is Daniel, the founder of Bookkeeping for Painters, and this is Richard, tax director. How's it going, Daniel?

It's going well. It's going well. I'm just a lot of onboarding meetings. This week. Just, uh, a lot of folks joining in and we're helping them get, get started to know their numbers and what they mean and saving in tax and streamline and automate their, their back office. So one of the biggest questions that I get during these onboarding meetings is, what CRM should I use? Or what do you recommend for CRMs? What are other people using? Like something along those lines with CRM. So today's podcast, we're gonna dive into that question and hopefully help, help you out with that decision.

Awesome. You know, CRM is one of those acronyms I hear so often. I know what it is, but I probably couldn't tell you what the acronym actually stands for. I'm gonna— I tell me— okay, tell me if I'm right. I think it stands for customer relationship manager.

Yeah, that's— you got it. Nailed it.

Awesome, awesome. Um, so yeah, customer, uh, yeah, I think any business that is, um, you know, contacting a lot of different people needs to have at least some kind of system to manage all those contacts, make sure that nobody falls through the cracks, uh, you know, have a, a nice organized convenient place so they can see all their communications. And that's gonna work into your sales process as well. You know, when you're first starting out, you're probably using like maybe an Excel spreadsheet, or I've seen people use dry erase boards and Post-it notes. But I think that, that gets a little old fast once, once you start getting, you know, a decent amount of customers and you need to really move into something that's more custom built.

Yeah, it— and some folks I have seen, they've gotten to like million, million-dollar level and they're still on a spreadsheet. So it's definitely possible, um, and it can work. It just might, uh, might be a little bit clunky, but you know, if you have a process down, it might work. But, uh, well, today we'll go through some of the things that we've seen other folks use, some, some strengths and weaknesses that from our perspective And so first, let's, let's talk about the benefits of a CRM. So like, one thing to note when we say CRM, it, depending on what we're talking about, it could do many like different things. Example being PaintScout is a very, it's more like an estimating tool. It does have CRM capability in there. And it's basically like a light CRM. But its real, its primary purpose is to help you with pricing projects and presenting proposals and generating work orders. And so that's different than what DripJobs is doing. DripJobs is more trying to be a full-fledged CRM. So it's important to know what you're actually— when we say CRM, it kind of is a phrase that's used for many different softwares that maybe are not necessarily trying to be a CRM exactly. So that's important to know. But let's go through the benefits. So benefits of using CRM: improving sales process, because once you have all your contacts in, in a software, oftentimes you can set up automations to automate emails or text messages to help build that trust through your sales process. So that's super important, especially if you're trying to charge a premium price for what you, what you're doing. You want to build trust throughout your sales process and being professional and having those touchpoints built in can be very helpful instead of having to do it all manually all the time. Another thing about that. Yeah, go ahead.

I mean, thinking about that customer experience. I know we kind of take it for granted sometimes, but just, you know, having that contact, knowing, you know, where they are in the process, that reassurance that we are paying attention to them and that they can trust us to deliver their project on time with high-quality results. I think that goes a long way.

Yeah, absolutely. And it usually helps you charge more money when you have that professionalized process. Improves your, your close rate. The other big one is streamlining your production process. So once you close the work, actually handing that off to your production team to actually do what you promise you're going to do. And so having a CRM that can help you schedule the project, have a way to look at the photos of the job that your team can put in notes on a daily log of what happened. Communication again with the customer on that project. That can be very helpful for the team for communication purposes, having a, a good sales to production handoff, tracking the progress of the, of each project. So that can be a huge benefit to kind of organize your, your business with a CRM. And Kind of a side note, like, depending on the CRM you're using, it could also help you with production rate estimating. So not all CRMs do this though. PaintScout definitely has production rates built in. It's specifically for painting businesses. So it's a really great tool for doing production rate estimating. And DripJobs just recently released their production rate estimating tool in there as well. And then there's some other CRMs out there that have similar things, but they may or not have that production rate capability built in. So that's something to keep in mind. Does your CRM have an estimating tool in it, or do you need to tack, you know, you know, get another software for that production rate? Estimating capability. Because from what we've seen, like, when a new client comes to us and they're struggling financially, it's usually because they're not pricing right and they're not using production rates. So getting a software that helps you do that consistently can, can be a game changer, not only just for yourself to estimate correctly, but if you ever want to grow your, your company to any level beyond yourself, being able to replicate the pricing processes is important, and having a software that has that codified makes it a lot easier. So that's another benefit of having a CRM with an estimating software built into that CRM. So those are some— that's a really quick run-through of the benefits of having a CRM. There's many more we could talk about, for a long time. But let's get into the next topic, which is what are folks actually using? So we track this on with all the folks that we work with. One of the reasons is because we have to, because we're often integrating the software for them with QuickBooks Online, their time tracker, and they're, you know, just making sure the system is all— the systems are talking to each other. Making sure that information from one system like the CRM, the invoicing is going into QuickBooks Online, making sure the time tracking data is getting synced over as well. So we often have to help folks set this up. And so we track, you know, what folks are using so we can help them in that case. So I'm going to actually share— I pulled the data from, from our CRM on what everyone's using and just put it into a pivot chart to kind of show the breakdown. And the number one used CRM of the folks that we— and this is about 200 businesses that we're looking at. So about 20%, 19.7% use DripJobs. So that's the number one use CRM for painting businesses that we work with. And then following them, it looks like that's PaintScout at 10.3% are using PaintScout. Then we have, I believe, EstimateRocket is number 3 at 6.9%, or yeah, 6.9%. I skipped over PepCloud because PepCloud is 7.4% of the folks we work with, but that's the franchisees that are in a franchise and they're, you can't really get PepCloud. If you go online and try to sign up for it, you can't really do that. You have to be basically in a franchise. So, so that one's not going to be available to everyone.

That's what you're saying.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So DripDrops number one, PaintScout number two, and then EstimateRocket. And then following close behind, we have GoHighLevel and then Jobber at 4.5%. So those are the top ones that we see folks use. And let's talk about what are the strengths and weaknesses of each of those softwares. So let's start with DripDrops because that was the first one. That's the one that's most widely used for for the folks that we work with. And I'll take this, um, analysis with a grain of salt because I am not using any of these softwares to run a painting business. So I'm— the feedback that I'm providing is just how well does it integrate with things, um, and the kind of the feedback that I hear folks give about it, and, uh, and what it— and kind of the basics of what it does. So I don't have like an in-depth you know, understanding of everything it does. I have kind of a superficial understanding and how, and I have a pretty, a really good understanding of how it integrates with things and how it can talk back and forth to different things like Zapier or QuickBooks Online. So kind of take my feedback as a, just a grain of salt, one perspective, a very narrow perspective. What I've found is a lot of folks have their own flavor that they like. And because a lot of the CRMs do similar things and everyone kind of has their own flavor and that's great. And whatever works for you is kind of the answer. You just want to make sure you take a few things into consideration, especially when you're trying to have this integrate into your system.

No, I think it's nice. I mean, we don't have a horse in this race, right?

Yeah.

And I think you hit the nail on the head in that the best CRM for you is the one that you enjoy using. That works for your systems. So if your favorite isn't on this list, or maybe it's kind of low on the list, that's okay. Don't, you know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But if you're in the market for a new CRM, this is some of the feedback we've gotten from our clients. Maybe, maybe it helps you, you know, which ones to try out.

Yes, absolutely. So DripJobs. DripJobs is great if you are looking for an all-in-one CRM that's, that does a lot of things. So it does everything from estimating to having automations in your sales process like you can set up out of the box, and then allows you, once the proposal is signed, you can push it over to the production side of the software to schedule the, the, the, the, the job on the calendar and track the progress of, of the, of the job. So it, it takes care of a lot of the requirements that a painting business needs, um, for a CRM. So that is definitely the strength, and that's a really good strength, and it's a reasonable price point, um, if you compare it to other, uh, tools, similar tools. And it's the— and I think that's one of the reasons why it's super popular out of the box. You can get started with it pretty easy. I think that the weakness of DripJobs, which I know they're working on and there have been improvements recently, is the integration piece of it. The integration with QuickBooks Online is not ideal. We have to kind of do a workaround with that integration. So it's not super strong. It works, but it's not ideal for how you would want to track things on your financial statements. Um, but there are some workarounds on how you can integrate it to make it do what you want to do. And then its Zapier integration, the last I checked, was a little bit limited. And, um, it's— it's so the Zapier is a little bit limited from what I've seen recently, but I know that they are working on it to improve it. So that's what I would say, the limitations from my perspective. Of, of DripJobs is that it's the opportunity there is just to improve the integration piece. But it is, like I said, the strength is the all-in-one kind of components that it has in that software. So that's DripJobs. And then PaintScout, number 2, came at 10.3%. I think that the strength here is it's an excellent estimating software for production rates. And it integrates well with others. So PaintScout isn't necessarily trying to be a CRM, I don't think. I mean, it has a CRM component to it, but I think it's really trying to be an estimating tool. I think if you're getting started, you could use it as, as your CRM, and then as you grow, bolt on a CRM. And PaintScout integrates nicely with WorkGlue, for example, and it can integrate with many different things. It has a really strong Zapier connection. So it has a lot of triggers and actions, so it can sync well with other things. So those are the strong points for, for PaintScout. You know, it's great for estimating tool and presentation tool, converts things over to a work order nicely. It has some CRM capability, and it has excellent integration, so you can bolt it on to whatever your— a more full-fledged CRM as you grow.

That might be a good choice for— I was gonna say it might be a good choice for folks who are already in a CRM that's not designed for painting owners, maybe like HubSpot or something like that, and they need to add on estimating capabilities. So you've got two pieces of software, one's an excellent CRM, one's an excellent estimator, and you're using both of these together. to achieve what some of the all-in-ones are doing.

Yes, agreed. Yeah, I really like pairing PaintScout up with GoHighLevel, which we'll get to in a little bit, because both are very powerful in what they do and they both have a very good, uh, integration so that it works well. Um, the, the weakness of, of PaintScout is, is basically that is not all-in-one. It's not necessarily trying to be that, so it kind of makes sense. So it doesn't have the full CRM experience that you would see in a typical CRM, and I think that's by design because it's trying to be more of an estimating tool. So that is the downside of PaintScout. Number 3 is EstimateRocket. And Estimate Rocket is, is similar to Drip Jobs in that it's, it's very much an all-in-one CRM where you can take it from doing the estimating for, for during the sales process and then going into the production process for scheduling, doing job costing within the software. It, it it's very much an all-in-one CRM that you can run your business off of. And so a lot of clients that we work with that are very large, you know, doing multi-millions are using Estimate Rocket and they really stand by it. So that's a strong option. I think the downside with Estimate Rocket is again the integration. It doesn't work as well with other things if you have other things. Now, not to say it doesn't have integration, it definitely does have integrations. It's just somewhat limited, especially with, from my perspective, again, being an accountant. QuickBooks Online, it's not a great integration. You have to use Zapier. It definitely can be set up the correct way and work perfectly fine. It's just if you are going into it not quite knowing how to do it, it might be a little bit challenging. Estimate Rocket does have some how-to guides on the website to show you how to do the connections and stuff like that. So they do have resources, but they don't have like an organic integration that's gonna be plugged in automatically. So that's just the downside, but again, still very strong software for sure. Uh, the next one is GoHighLevel. And this, this software I'm, I'm a fan of, and it's very powerful, has a lot of capability, not just for painting businesses but for really any business. We use it internally for bookkeeping for painters. We also help other— we help painting businesses, we, we help painting businesses get on GoHighLevel. We've set up a GoHighLevel version for painting businesses. We have a service line called Automation for Painters. So I'm preferential to GoHighLevel. It's very powerful. It is really good with integrations. You can, you know, use webhooks or Zapier to push data to other softwares that you need to use. Um, the downside with GoHighLevel is that it's complicated. It has so much capability that it's kind of hard to know all the things about it, and they're always updating things. So it, it can be very daunting, um, piece of software. But, uh, so that's, that's kind of the gist of GoHighLevel. And then last we have Jobber. Uh, Jobber again is one of those all-in-one soft, uh, CRMs. It's more general. It's not as specific to painters, although it did start off being for the— I think the first customer they had was a, a painting business, but now they're kind of— they've kind of broadened who they're reaching out to. So it's more of a generic software. Um, not, uh, so they don't have like that production rate estimating, for example. Um, at least to my knowledge. Um, Things are always changing, so got a caveat out. But I don't believe it has any production rates for painting businesses built in the software. So, you know, that's a drawback from my perspective, but it does have a lot of capability. So it has, you know, a way to generate proposals, estimates and proposals, have them e-signed, you know, touchpoints throughout the sales process. Handoff to the production process, has a time tracker built in similar to Estimate Rocket and, and Drip Jobs. So it has a lot of that same capability. It's just not, I think the drawback here is that it's not really specifically for painters, so it doesn't have the production rate piece. And the integration, it's, it's probably one of the better softwares that's all-in-one in integration, it's decent, but still it has a little bit of a— it lacks a little bit in that department, although it is a little bit better than I would say DripDrops, for example, on the integration side. But the drawback is that it's not really specifically for painters. So Those are kind of my views. Take them for a grain of salt. You know, I'm not in there running painting businesses off this. It's just kind of like what I've heard, what I've kind of seen in helping folks, painting businesses integrate these different softwares into their businesses.

Yeah. And you know, as we mentioned earlier, you might have a favorite CRM that you've already spent time getting your business built into. You like the way it feels, you like the way it integrates. You know, by all means, continue to use what works. You know, if you're weak in one area, you know, there's estimating software that can, that can kind of bolster what you're already doing. Or if you're out looking for a brand new CRM, you're just starting, you know, maybe one of these all-in-one options is the way to go because you want to kind of keep your tech stack short and you want to keep your cost down. That might be a good option for you. But going with what works, you know, is always going to be in your best interest.

Yeah.

I think that the real key with the CRMs is, are you using them to benefit your business? I mean, are you using them to reduce the amount of time between first getting a lead and making that initial contact? Are you using them to have those extra touchpoints with your customers? Are you benefiting from using production rates so that your estimates are perfect every single time and you're not just kind of, you eyeballing it and I was a little bit off, so I didn't make as much money as I should have. You know, using something consistently is always going to trump, you know, inconsistency, even if it's, you know, the flashiest or the most expensive. So sticking with what works, using it consistently, and then always trying to improve your process with that customer experience in mind is going to go a long way.

Yeah, absolutely. So we would love to hear your feedback. What CRM are you using? I'd love to hear your thoughts. If you go to Facebook, type in Grow Your Painting Business and join the group. Love to hear from you or any ideas for future episodes.

Yeah, I appreciate you listening today, and we hope to see you on the next episode.