Ann Patchett and Daniel Pink talk about what makes a great book

Back at Politics and Prose Bookstore in Washington, D.C. with Ann Patchett, Daniel Pink. I want to ask you, we've been talking about books that you, you love. What is it, what is it generally that makes you, when you're reading, Ann, say, I've got to tell somebody about this book?

You know, I read so much, both as a writer and a bookstore owner, I am reading all the time, that the mark of a truly great book for me is one that makes me forget that I'm reading. One that actually turns off the critical component of my mind so that I'm not— I'll read great books that I love, but I'm always thinking, look at the way she moved the plot along there. Look at the way he set up that scene. Boy, that was amazing. But the truly great book is the one that makes me forget everything I know.

What happens? You wake up and you're—

And I just enter fully into the experience of the book. I live in the story.

And that's the And then suddenly you remember, here I am reading.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Dan?

Yeah, I think it's similar, sort of on— so you're describing sort of 2 levels. I think one level, inevitably any writer reads it on almost like a mechanical level. Like you're driving a car, you want to know how the car works. And, oh, look what he did over here. Look at what she did here. Oh, she set it up here and then she paid it off over here. Interesting. So you read it on that level. But for me, it's interesting, a mark of a good book is I wanna do is I'll be reading along, and I, I, these are my books, I underline all my books, I write like crazy in my books, I deface my books.

Yeah.

And, but for me, the mark of a good book is one where I come across something, I underline it, and I go, I gotta tell somebody what I just found out. And, and especially when, I mean, I read a lot of nonfiction in science and economics and so forth, and there's just so many great insights out there, but for me, the mark is like, People need to know this. I gotta tell somebody.

Is that— that is, you chose books that all are kind of telling us something about the world, right? Understanding more. That is the kind of book you like to read?

Oh, I read novels too. I mean, I think you have to come at it both ways. I think that all these books here, the ones that I chose, and even the field of science itself, is a way to understand who we are. But I think that novels obviously are a way to understand who we are. And I think if you come at it both ways, there's a kind of synthesis that emerges. that if you read only books about science, I think you'd have a narrow view of the human condition. But I think if you read only novels, you might have a narrow view of the human condition.

Right.

To me, it's putting them all together. I also like, you know, I also believe in the sort of diversity of form that Ann is talking about here. I mean, I love graphic novels. I wrote a graphic novel. And I think that, you know, I think that the variety of forms that are out there now is really exciting.

And I'm such a better reader now that I have a bookstore because we have a staff and people on the staff fall in love with a book or it's my turn to read certain books for staff recommends. I mean, really, Brown Girl Dreaming, which is one of the best books I read all year, is a great example of a book I never would have read in a million years if it wasn't for the fact that I own this store where everyone's saying, you have to read this book. And I finally thought, okay, I'll take it home, I'll take a look at it, and then I just fell in love with it.

You like being a bookseller?

I love being a bookseller.

Yeah?

But it's the same thing you're talking about. I think any passionate reader, the experience of reading a book that you love is not complete until you can turn around and say, you have to read this book. This is so important to me. And now, instead of always leaning on my family and my friends to read the books I want them to read, I've got strangers all day long, and I can come into the store and say, you have to read this book. You're gonna love this book.

Of course, you both have to put the books down at some point and write your own.

Sometimes, yeah. But that's the last resort. If you're a true writer, you'd much rather read than write.

Yeah, yeah.

So that's the mark. Anybody who says they love writing is probably not a true writer.

I'd love to have written.

I'd love to have written too. I like to read. But, you know, I think it's an interesting point because there is— I mean, reading seems like this solitary thing. And at some level, the actual act of reading is. You're often alone. You're often by yourself. But I think that it also is a very social thing, that the ideas come alive, the stories come alive when you tell somebody. And I think there is— this yearning, and if you find out something, you hear a great story, even a great turn of phrase, you want to tell somebody. That makes it even better. I mean, I read a line in here that I loved so much. I read it, closed the book, looked around my house. Kids are not there. My wife is not there. I have no one to tell. And I literally— You poured a drink?

What did you do?

The drink is usually pre-poured in my house.

Looked into the bottom of the glass.

You know what I did? took a photograph of the page.

I knew you were going to say that.

I took a photograph of the page and I tweeted it because I wanted people to see it. The photograph of the underline, I tweeted it because I wanted other people to see it. Because E.O. Wilson said, because he's writing about science, he says, this is a great line, I wish I had come up with it, a great scientist thinks like a poet and works like a bookkeeper. And I think that's it. I think that's true for a lot of these professions. And I just saw that. It's so ingenious. It's so fantastic. I've got to tell somebody. So I took a photograph, tweeted it out.

And isn't it great to have a whole lifetime experience with someone like E.O.

Wilson? Oh my gosh.

Like, we've been just reading him forever and learning. And it's these layers and layers. The relationship that we have with E.O. Wilson at this point is such a gift.

That's one of the things I like about this. Because if you're a fan, it's sort of like—

Greatest hits.

Well, it's like, let's go, you know, Michael Jordan's career is over. E.O. Wilson's career is ending. But hey, Michael Jordan's at the gym showing some moves and shooting some hoops. I'm totally going to watch that.

That's right. And he wants to teach you about—

Right. And he's going to say, hey, watch when I switch the ball in another hand. So it's great. And also, what I like about it, he reconsiders one idea. That's what I like about this. So here's a guy in his 90s who's basically saying, you know what? The way I thought about this earlier, I don't think that's right anymore. And he changes his mind. And so very few people are confident enough to change their mind.

Well, and they're around long enough to change their mind.

Yes, right.

All right, The Joy of Reading, Ann Patchett, Daniel Pink. Thank you both so much.

Thank you. Thank you so much.