How to Fight Debt Collectors Without a Lawyer ft. Steven Williams

You got sued by the debt collector for $104,000.

It was crazy. I ended up having to settle that lawsuit for $43,000. What I later found, if the attorney simply ran through the whole process, I would have won that lawsuit. Consider everything that I went through with that case, the training ground, a $43,000 education in what I help people do now. My clients would Fighting back against debt collector lawsuit. When you go to court, there's no guarantees, but you have to go in there like you're gonna win.

Hey, credit heroes. Imagine this. You're sitting at home, the phone rings, and suddenly you're staring at a lawsuit for $104,000. Most people would panic. Most people would give up. But instead of giving up, Stephen Williams fought back. He turned that nightmare into a system and built a credit repair empire that has helped thousands rebuild their credit and fight back without a lawyer. Steven has proven what's possible, and today he's going to share how he helps clients fight lawsuits without lawyers and how you can use these same strategies to grow your business and protect your clients. So please welcome to the podcast Stephen Williams. Hey, Stephen.

Welcome, Stephen.

Hey, how you doing?

By the way, congratulations on the Millionaires Club award. I see it up there on your wall.

That looks so co. And I really appreciate it. And when I took it home and showed it to my wife before I put it at the office, so I really do appreciate it. You can see. You can see where? Right there.

It's a huge achievement, making a million dollars with credit repair. How does it feel?

Oh, it feels really good. Very good. Because, number one, you're helping people. So it's not You're. You're. You're being rewarded, but you're helping people. And that's where it all starts.

Absolutely. I want to know everything, but let's start with where did you grow up and where are you right now?

I grew up in Dallas, Texas, but I'm up here in the cold in Wisconsin. Yeah, I moved here in 1990. That's a picture of me when I was in the United States Army. I went into the army right out of high school in 1988, and I met my wife when I was in the military, and she said, hey, why don't you come back and let's move where I used to live at. And the only thing I knew about Milwaukee was the Fonz and Laverne and Shirley.

Yeah.

Wow, that's amazing. And thank you for your service.

Welcome, welcome.

Okay, I want to get back to the beginning of your question. Credit story.

Did.

Did you have credit troubles yourself?

Yes, but mine was a. Was a kind of weird situation, but probably like most. And when my wife and I got up here, we started a small business. It was an advertising business. I actually have one of the copies here, but it's. We don't have the business anymore. But it was to help local businesses advertise. And it was a free publication. And the niche was, you know, the daily newspapers were dominating back then, and software became available. Computers, remember, in the 90s, early 90s, computers were becoming available. And so we started this business here to help local businesses get, you know, customers. I'm 20 years old at that time, starting. And within four years, we. We grew that company to where me and my wife were making over 100,000 a year. Now, when you're 24 years old with 100,000 a year business, what do you do? You blow it. We ended up in debt. 300 grand in debt. Crazy. In Christmas of 1994, we said, we can't live this way or we'll be divorced. And we put together a plan to get out of debt. And our credit got destroyed in that process. It took us all the way from 94 to 1999, which is one of the longest journeys of credit repair. But we did it. And during that whole process, we learned a lot about dealing with debt collectors getting sued. And that was like my training ground. But that was years before I actually started my company, the credit repair shop. What got me to start the credit repair shop was when I would go around to my clients, I would talk about my story. And then they started saying, hey, I need help with credit. And I did it for free because they were paying me as the advertisers. I didn't want to lose them if they lost their businesses. But by 2006, they were referring so many friends and family, I said, I gotta make a business. So we ended up starting the credit repair shop to help the people that they referred. But also we started helping other people. Wow.

And now at what point was it that you got sued by the debt collector for $104,000?

It was early, like around 2002. And it was like one of the, like you said, getting $104,000 and you, you know, had this experience, but going getting us lawsuit for $104,000. It was crazy. Number one, I had to tell my wife because I, you know, got served. And she was like, she supported me and she said, what are we going to do about this? The first thing I did, which is what Anyone would normally do is let's call an attorney. Let's just call an attorney, because let's see what we could get done. And there's nothing wrong with doing that. But what I later found was that if the attorney, and I'm not saying that all attorneys would be this way, but if they had simply ran through the whole process of what's required for that lawsuit, I would have won that lawsuit. I ended up having to settle that lawsuit for $43,000. So I consider everything that I went through with that case was the training ground, a $43,000 education in what I help people do now. My clients with fighting back against debt collector lawsuits.

That's amazing.

The need came about from credit repair clients. They're in, you know, in their credit repair journey, and then they get sued. And I had no options. And I just had decided, hey, what if we just put together something to help them respond Based off of what I personally went through with my lawsuit, if they go to an attorney, some of the times right off the bat, it's going to be about 2,500 bucks. And a lot of times people say that they just end up getting forced into a settlement and not fighting the case.

And.

And I said, well, what if I just tested what I learned about fighting these cases and just put it into action with my clients? And for about five years straight, we had did it all manually and got very good results. Like, I mean, lawsuits for 20, 30. The highest one recently was $141,000.

Wow.

Was fully dismissed. And so the demand got so high to where I was like, what can I utilize to be able to, number one, maintain the quality and then also be able to, you know, scale with more clients.

You had your own issue with being sued by debt collectors. Take us through running your own credit repair business. And what did you see in your own business that was a challenge that all your clients were going through? And what happens if clients don't respond to these lawsuits that are coming towards them?

If they don't respond, consequences are dire. They could end up with wage garnishments. If they live in a state that doesn't allow wage garnishment, we're seeing where they can go directly to their bank account. They'll wake up in the morning, and it's like your account is zeroed out. And they utilize a court order to be able to do that. And in some instances, they can actually seize assets. And now in the past, you know, we have certain protections on assets that they can actually take, but in the Past if you had two vehicles, if they're not paid off, you were like, oh, you know who's going to. It's not paid off. But from my research and being in this industry dealing with these debt collectors, what they've started doing is they'll send an appraiser out from like Carmax or some of those companies and they'll get an offer. And if it's. If they can make some money from that, they have actually taken individuals vehicles. And so it's very imperative if you're being sued by a debt collector or original creditor, that you respond because that preserves your rights. You know, that that buys you time. And if you had that time, it can get you to let the emotions go. Because when you're getting sued, the first thing that boils up are emotions. And then if you can get past that and you can start to think logically and then you can start searching for solutions.

Your credit repair business, how many clients have you served over the years?

Over 10,000 since 2006. So we.

Incredible.

Yeah, we've helped a lot of people.

How many of them actually have these challenges with getting sued by debt collectors? It. Like, how common is it to be seeing this?

30 to 40 a day.

Wow.

That. Yeah, it is. It is massive. Massive about. And that's from outreach and then from our advertisements. But not everybody is ready to do something. But it's massive. It's a lot of people and it's good to just be able to, even to offer them some sort of comfort to where they can at least know that there is help out there.

Yeah. In our credit repair cloud community, it's a very popular question. People always say, my client just got sued. What should I do? How do I help them? And my answer to them was always, well, you better go talk to a lawyer and don't ignore it. But I didn't realize until we heard about your software that people can really handle this themselves.

Yes. And the great part about it, and this is what our clients have experienced, when you respond appropriately, it's formatted the right way, which is what we do with the software. The judge actually reads the defense. So they just go in there and they raise their hand. And that takes away a lot of the fear because then everything is on the plaintiff attorney to have to answer that defense. And I think that that's where when people experience that, they're like, oh, I didn't need an attorney. Not to say attorneys are bad. It's just that for this situation, I really did not need one because I guess that $42,000 settlement, experience it let me know that judges are in a hurry when they're going through this. They're stacking up with so many people in, in the courtroom, and they're just, default judgment, default judgment, default judgment. Just. They want to hurry up and get out of there. But when someone has an actual response, the judge, rather than having that, they're just like, hey, this is their defense. What do you have to say about this? And some of the times they'll just dismiss it right off the bat, or they'll ask for more time.

What's the typical result for someone using it? We'll get into the details of how it works in a moment, but I'd love to know what the typical result is.

So first, the first thing that we want to do is avoid the default judgment. So it's going to guarantee no default judgment. Because that's very important just to, you know, to start off. In some instances, if it's debt collectors, when they get that response, if you get it to them before, way before your hearing date, it gives them the opportunity, if they want to withdraw and dismiss the case, because they see that you're actually going to put up a fight. If you end up going to court and you go through the process, I would say if it's a debt collector, you have about a 60, 40 chance of winning outright. It really depends on how bad the plaintiff was, wants that attorney to keep going after the case. But we guide them through that process, we coach them through that so they're never just left, you know, where they have a response and then that's it. We. I made was very important to me that we did have an aftercare process where we can. They can speak with someone at my office before they go in to the hearing, and whatever the outcome is afterwards, we can let them know their options after it. And if they happen to lose, we even could help them with settlement. But we always tell them, you have to go in there, like you're going to win. You know, when you go to court, there's no guarantees, but if you get yourself in the right mindset and you have your defense with, you know, already presented, you can have a lot of good things happen. And we've had people where they went in and they thought, you know, they just felt like they were going to lose. And then soon as they called their name, they didn't even get to say anything. They said, dismiss the plaintiff attorney. And some of them would be upset because they were like, I wanted to say My defense. But we're like, take, don't spike. You know, when you make a touchdown, don't celebrate. Just, you know, walk out. You know, get out of there.

What does it mean, default judgment?

If you don't respond, you automatically get a default judgment, which means that you just gave up your rights. And it can last for 20 years. They can collect for 20 years. A lot of times some people will say, well, I don't have anything right now, so I'm not going to fight it. And then later, five, six years later, they get a better job, and then all of a sudden they get this judgment order that they either have to get their wages garnished or they'll garnish out of the bank account.

Wow.

That's very. Yeah, very important to avoid that default judgment. Because when you don't respond, the courts actually takes everything that. That plaintiff said about you, all the allegations as true. And in some of the court documents, if someone has one, they have this little line that's like a stab at people. It says, unjust enrichment. So imagine a judge reading that and you didn't respond, and they're saying you unjustly enriched yourself by not continuing to pay this debt that they purchased from the original creditor. So you want to make sure you respond to each allegation. So to be clear, summons master answers each allegation that they put forth against the individual and a defense to help win that case.

I just wanted to kind of summarize what we've heard so far, because these consumers are getting these lawsuits thrown at them around this debt and really summon Masters comes in where first it helps them answer the case so they don't have a default judgment against them. So it takes some of the anxiety away from the consumer and also helps protect them, their wages, and making sure that the court system can't just do something on behalf of the consumer. They can actually fight this. But also if you start fighting it, you might actually win and not have. And not the other side may not have a full case, too. That's another way that you're helping. Is that correct?

Yes. I think one of the biggest misconceptions that people will have is when a case is brought against you, then it becomes where they have to have the burden of proof to prove that case. But when we get those lawsuit documents, the emotions boil up. So we're not really thinking. We just think about either the number that they're claiming or what they're saying. Unless you're trained, you forget about all of the other things. That they said and that they have to prove all of that stuff. And with the debt collectors, I mean you could look at the news stories, they are just robo signing cases, robo signing documents. There are some debt collectors who have sold debts, debts that they purchased to another debt collector. And specifically in that bill of sale contract it says do not sell to another debt collector. But they don't expect people to comb through all of those documents and know that. And the reasons why the original creditors don't want them to do that is they don't want to be on the hook for something that a debt collector that they had no agreement with did. So Summons Master is, you know, not to get so techy, but it uses natural language processing where it's going to read and look at the allegations against that individual and then it's going to create that response to those allegations and then it's going to create the defense to win based off of that summons.

And Stephen, one last thing before we jump into a demo around this, but I'd love to know, like, why should others consider putting your system into their credit repair business? Like it sounds like it obviously really helps the consumer, but how has it changed your business?

Someone that's looking for credit repair or that's just getting sued and they're not a credit repair client, that pressure that they're under is so extreme. And when you give them that relief, they have a belief in you just from that. And once they get over that hurdle of that summons, they automatically would just say, hey, you know, ask questions about do you offer credit repair now? We follow the rules. We just send them to our website. You know, we don't speak to anyone about it. But they come like you could if you want to say automatic. It's like they're an automatic customer because you've helped them with something that really could have them not having good nights of sleep because they'll think about it all the time. And yes, it's helped grow my credit repair business because they just have that trust when they had someone that helped guide them through something that was really pressing on them.

Well, Steven, would love to jump into a demo of your system. I know you had a client situation like a demo you could go through.

Yeah, what I did is I made a sample, like a little sample one. So we don't reveal anyone's info. It's a free account, you know, it doesn't charge to get the account. There's a sign up page and we have multiple clients that become recurring customers because I mean if you think about it, hand in hand, if they have debt, debt lawsuits, they're going to have credit repair issues. So we set it up to where they could just log back in and come back and get there, do another sum as if they need to. So I'm going to just drag a file. It has to be a PDF file, it has to be all in one file and just drag it into here. And then we have a tab for original creditors. We've been very successful with winning against original creditors also and, and debt collectors. So that's very important that they choose the correct one because it's going to know how that summons response needs to be created. And then they just click right here. And so it's reading the summons. It could be, you know, 10 pages, it could be as few as five pages or a couple of pages. Just depends on what type of work the attorney put into doing the putting together the complaint.

Well, just for your business, are you typically having the client forward you their mail from the collector or are they scanning it in themselves? What typically works for your business?

I would say we have about a 75% do it themselves because I've made videos on here on how to do it. So they mostly will do it themselves. If, if they don't know how to make a PDF file, then we can make a PDF and send it back to them. But yeah, we got about 75% to 25%. And I think the 25% is because before we did this, I advertised it through credit repair shop. And so some of those clients still come to us and they just like, hey, do it all for us and email it, email me a file. So after it creates it, then they're taken to proceed to pay. This is my account, so it doesn't show the payment. And then it's going to bring up the document that was put into summons Master to be utilized for the summons. And then on this side it'll have the response. And then they could either download it, print, you know, printed, and all they have to do is sign and date it, and then these are kept in their history if they ever need to come back. And then we have instructions. Let me take you back here. So we tell them, we give them the instructions on what to do after. So there's no, you know, no questions on what they have to do once they get it printed out. And it's basically they just take signed copy to the court clerk, file it, and then take one mail, one certified to the plaintiff attorney. After that they will experience relief because They've done what the court requires. They're compliant with the court. So there's no default judgment. There's no worries with that. The ball is in the court of the plaintiff attorney, and the plaintiff attorney is going to get with their client and say, hey, this person responded. They didn't just sit back and not do anything. We have to do some work here. What do you want to do? And some of the times, if there's enough time before that hearing, case dismissed. They'll just send them a notification. Case dismissed.

So simple and clean. A really good job on this interface.

Thank you. Thank you.

Incredible. And, Stephen, what are. What are some of the success stories you've gotten with this?

Let's go here. I'd like to do the proof in the pudding. These are all real people. Sue Kim, actually, on my YouTube channel, on my YouTube channel, he made a audio. He won his case for $100,000. If it gets back over there, Sue Kim. These are some other ones that we've helped. Here are some. These are the way I like them the best, is here's some dismissal. When they get their dismissals, we'll get them here and post them. This was one that was vacated where we actually helped them after they had a default judgment we were able to get to help them. Here's one for $26,000. Dismissed. 3,000. This was a couple in Missouri. They had three accounts, and the wife is a court reporter. So this, when I said about how people get emotional, she said, steve, I see people with this every day. And when it hit us, we didn't know what to do. And we did their responses, and they won each one of the cases. And they said that the bailiff winked at them on the way out because they said that most people were just getting either judgments or default judgments because they didn't have a defense. And let's see here. Here are some recent ones. 5,000 here.

And, Stephen, what are the most common reasons for getting them dismissed? What? Like, what do you typically see?

It's in with the documents. And we also challenge the attorney. You know, when that attorney sends that complaint to you, they want you to have a feeling it's done on purpose. They put words in there to make you feel a certain way, and it gets people very emotional. From my experience, I learned that you. And because of the fcra, I mean, the Fair Debt Collections Practice act, when an attorney is suing you, they're acting as a debt collector, and they're required to do certain things. And so we challenge the case and we challenge the process that the debt collector utilized to even bring the case. And those, the quick dismissals come from when the attorney with their regular. That most people don't respond to and they just throw the case together and file it and they get caught. Now that they. With summons master, they get caught and they'll end up dismissing the cases because they're getting challenged. And the last thing attorney wants to do is to go into court unprepared. And. But the problem is, is that they've already presented the case unprepared, so it's hard for them to go backwards. They'll usually have a junior attorney that's just, you know, name. If they don't show up, default. Don't show up, default. When, when someone breaks that, that, that, that little bitty cycle that they have and they actually have a defense, that's when they actually have to have to do something. And they're usually not prepared to do something. When someone sues you, you have to defend yourself against what they allege and then you can proceed whatever the outcome can be a settlement. It could be where you have a victory. But let's not give up our rights too easy because they don't just write all of that stuff in a summons just because they write it because they have to. And because they have to, it gives you the right to defend yourself against what they say. When you fight and you fight it the right way, it opens them up to want to come to you for those low settlements. One that comes to mind was a doctor. She said, steve, I cannot have this because they're going to take away my license to be a doctor. And I said, okay, we're going to file your response. But we had a strategy to get to a settlement, and I believe her debt was close to 50,000. And we did end up settling that for about 21,000. But here's the kicker is that they would not make a move on a settlement when she was just talking to them over the phone. But when that response was submitted, all of a sudden they had something that they were going to have to prove. And then they came back and they said, this is what we would, you know, they started offering amounts, and we did handle the settlement for her, but they started offering amounts. And we knew her dollar amount and we worked it down to that amount, but they were open to that because they knew that she had responded to the summons.

Stephen, most of the time when this happens, is it generally someone who's bought the debt and not the original creditor?

The only I don't know if I'm allowed to say names of banks and stuff, but there's sure. Okay, well, American Express keeps their debt and we've had victories against America Discover, which is now Capital One. They keep their debt and they sue. Barclays keeps their debt and they sue. And Navy Federal has started keeping their debt and they sue. And we have successfully helped people get those cases dismissed because they still have to go through the process of presenting those documents. And if they don't do it, they'll end up dismissing the case. I think that's what blows a lot of people's mind is that why would the original creditor get dismiss the case when they can go and get every document that they needed to prove the case? Let me tell you why that happens. Because the attorney went to them and sold their service to them saying, we're the big bad attorney, we win it all. They beef their firm up to be the biggest and the baddest. And then when they have to go back and get things to prove their case, the original creditor says, leave that person alone and let's go after the people who are not defending themselves, who don't have a response.

And then these debt collectors who've bought the debt from other banks that don't handle this stuff themselves, they've paid probably much less than is owed. So whatever they can get is gravy generally, right?

Yeah, pennies on the dollar. But they have to pay money to file these cases, you know, so even if they bought it for pennies on the dollar, you're depending on what part of the country you're in, they're going to be paying 75 to $150 for small claims and then it's going to be a lot higher for what they call big money claims. And so this is an investment for them regardless of the amount. It's an investment. But the way to win the case is to respond. Because still to this day, from doing this all of these years, there's so many people that don't respond that they're still just doing it the regular way where they just, you know, robo sign these documents and throwing the cases together that are really unprovable.

It's such a bizarre thing to do for a living, to be on the other side of that. Those debt collectors. How could you, how could somebody do that day after day?

It is their business. One of the biggest nationwide companies that's doing it right now for American Express. But this is just their business. This is just what they do. It's like, you know, it's. I couldn't feel good doing it. That's obviously because that's why I had to do a solution like regardless. I was going to try to help regardless, but I just could not do it because people are down, you know, they're already struggling and you know, I mean, you know, they just look at it as business. You know, business is business. But it's just one that I just myself couldn't be involved with.

Me too. It's ugly. It's ugly and cold. Wow. I'm so glad you came up with it. We should tell people where they can get this. It's summonsmaster.com, right?

Yes, summonsmaster.com and I have you know how it works videos on there, you know, so they can preserve their rights and fight back.

If you're a credit repair business owner and you're looking to add the service, is there anything you would recommend for credit heroes and other credit repair business owners to do in their marketing to get more clients using this service?

Yeah, they can, number one advertise that they can help people with the service with this. You know, if they're getting sued by a debt collector and that would bring them the lead and then they could, you know, utilize summons Master to help them respond to that and then automatically I'm pretty sure that they would, you know, if they have links that they send out and email follow ups that they send out, that that person would pretty much trust them because of the way that they got help to sign up as a credit repair client.

And when you're taking on a credit repair client, is this part of your onboarding with a client asking them if they're getting these letters in the mail?

No, I've kind of kept everything separate, you know. So if a client signs up for credit repair and then if they end up needing the service, then we would let them know we have a service that can help them with it. So it's either they're going to come in as a credit repair client and then eventually have this type of issue come up or they come in as where they're already getting sued and then we help them and then we send them over the link for credit repair services if they ask for it.

Got it. And out of 100 clients you service like how many would you estimate need help with like if you have 100 credit repair clients, how many of them need help with this type of service?

If they have charge offs, I would say probably about 50%. If they have credit card debt, that's I would say 1500 or more. They're going to end up more than likely getting sued.

So if someone has had a charge off, that's a pretty good sign. You may be getting one of these letters with a summons.

Yes. And the way the process goes and credit Repair cloud prepares us for this is when you get that debt collection letter, you want to utilize the debt validation. And then the next step would be for them to sue. So they'll usually say, we're going to take, potentially take legal action if they. If you don't call us or whatever they, you know, demanding to do. And so that would be the next step. And we're seeing that ramp up where it's just, you know, people get those letters, kind of disregard them. And even if they did respond to them, then they would later because they're trying to make the bigger money, is to take a person to court.

Now, I saw on your site, there's one of the links up at the top is for debt validation. Is that different then the summon response?

It was kind of a feature that I added because some of the leads were saying, I think I'm getting sued. And then when we would look at their document, they were getting a demand letter. So we said, okay, you want to be proactive with this, Respond to that demand letter. And what, by doing that, it can actually set up a quicker dismissal for their case. Because in that demand letter, it's going to ask for everything that I know from experience that they would have to have to bring that case. And if they bring that case without that at first, if they don't send it to you, there's already a problem. And then if they bring the case and you have a certified, you know, the little green certified showing that you did make that request, soon as you submit your summons response, nine times out of 10, the plaintiff attorney would dismiss the case because they know that they've already messed up. And the big thing is that they can't go backwards. Sometimes they'll try to go backwards, but nine times out of 10, they're just going to dismiss it because, you know, an attorney's like, I don't want to admit I made a mistake on this. So they're just going to dismiss it. And I don't know what they say to their client. You know, they have their ways, I guess, of talking to them, but probably saying, hey, this person responded, we got to dismiss this one. But 99 other people didn't respond. So we're still in the game.

When you're providing this service to Consumers. I'm curious to learn a little more about the business model. Is this bundled in with your credit repair pricing or is this a separate fee? How does, how do you charge for the service with. For consumers?

Yeah, it's a separate fee. So this for credit repair business owners, this would be a way to get additional revenue. I mean, just imagine if you got, you know, five or 10 of these coming through a week or per day or, you know, it just depends on your volume. But these are our fees for Lawsuits up to 5,000, 51 to 10, these numbers here. And then custom is, you know, if they have a lawsuit that's higher. And the reason why there's a difference is that. And it's logical when I say this because people say, well, why is it different for this one and not that for this lawsuit and not that one is because wouldn't you think an attorney who is suing you for $55,000 is going to put in a lot more work? They're going to build up those allegations against you. And so we have to make that case strong to beat those allegations and to beef up that defense. But we using this here where a person uploaded their summons, filed it, went to court on their own, got a dismissal, emailed us those sheets because we asked for the sheets, it's case dismissed. So like, if a person just follows that process, they can actually do this without even speaking to us. If they, if they just. Because if they're in. Some people are embarrassed, you know, and I understand that. So they just want to silently just go through the whole process, get their response and kind of be on their way. And if anything comes up, then yes, they can give us a call and contact us pertaining to their lawsuit. But most people will just get it and file it and the pressure is off. The ball is in the court of the plaintiff attorney. The average for our credit repair business owners, the average is these two right here. So imagine having a couple of those come through during, you know, during a slow day. And if you think about it, to have a defense to potentially win a dollar amount of that much, you can see that that's the value in that.

And Stephen, besides asking the consumer these cases are coming against them, you mentioned that watching for consumers who have charge offs of over 1500 or more. But are there any other common attributes of what a credit professional might see that would be a indication that they're probably getting sued?

I would say if you see something like LVNV, funding a debt that's, you know, $1500 or more and it has LVNV funding portfolio. Jefferson, you know, the group there, more than likely a lawsuit is going to be coming down the line. They're going to try to time it to make sure that it's done before the statute of limitations. But you can pretty much bet because they're in the business of, of turning those debts that they purchased into, you know, into, into their revenue. So if they see any debt collector and 1500 or more, they should, you know, be prepared to be able to help their client. Because it's, it's going to come, it's going to come in. And what's happened with the cfpv, Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, I'm seeing a huge spike in debt collector lawsuits because the scrutiny with the agreement that the debt collectors had with their rule, a lot of that stuff has been, you know, has kind of went to the wayside. And I'm seeing debt collectors that are really getting bold. Let me tell you one that's happening. And people who are watching can do their research. You, in America, you cannot be arrested because of a debt that you owe. You cannot. But debt collectors are starting to utilize a tool that the courts offer them. So what they'll do is they'll get a, get the judgment because they didn't respond. And then if you don't show up to court to answer to the debt, they can get a contempt order. So this has been reported in the news. People were at a park eating, and the police, you know, doing parking tickets or running license plates, and they see that they have a contempt order against them, that they have to go in front of the judge and answer to that debt. And this is a tool that they are using. There's a map if, if, if people want to go to the ACLU and type in arrested for debt and it'll show you all of the states. And I believe that there's only a few states now that have not where judges haven't went ahead and gave those contempt orders to have people arrested. Now when you, if it's on a Monday through Friday, you see the judge, they release you. Even if you say you can't pay it, they release you. But now if it's Saturday, you have to wait till Monday. No one wants to deal with that. And so we educate our clients, even credit repair clients that haven't been sued. I make a lot of videos on YouTube about, you do not want to disregard the court when they send these out there, because it's like you have two people against you. You have the judge and you have the plaintiff attorney and you just don't want to do that.

Wow. I'm sure they're getting more and more bold because the CFPB has lost a lot of their funding.

Yeah.

And they've had to let all kinds of people go. Very few people are left there.

Yes. There's no one watching. There was an agreement that the debt collectors all came together with a rule on how they were going to submit debt collection demand letters. Like what had to be on there. I'm already seeing debt collection letters that have disregarded that rule with the cfpb. They're not even giving people the instruction on their own how to dispute that demand letter. Or they change the font size. And if someone has a demand letter, all of the fonts pertaining to the information is supposed to be the same size. And that was an agreement that all debt collectors made with the cfpv. But I'm starting to see that that's going to the small print now about how to dispute.

Okay, awesome. So again, for anybody interested in Summons Master, it's summonsmaster.com we're going to put the link also down in the show notes. And for everyone out there watching and listening, if you're finding value in the things we share on this podcast, click below to subscribe. Let's get to 100,000 subscribers. Also, give us a five star review or share the show and help us to change more lives. If you have a question or a comment, drop it down below because I read each and every one of them. I would love to hear from you and I'll respond as soon as I can. And if you want to hear another amazing millionaire success story, check out my interview with Patrisse English right over here. And if you'd like to start your very own credit repair business or learn how to earn extra income repairing credit for others, check out my brand new Start Repairing Credit Challenge. So sign up right now@startrepairingcredit.com and keep changing lives.