Leveraging Your Introversion w Matthew Pollard Author of 'The Introverts Edge' MUIYB Podcast

Yeah.

Okay, so let's get into it right now. I mean, I want to talk about introversion. So let me ask you, do you qualify yourself as an introvert? And where are you on the. Is it the spectrum? Is that the word to use?

Well, yeah, so I think that psychologists make it way too confusing. I think that, you know, you're either introverted or you're extroverted. I hear people talk about all the time, oh, I used to be introverted, now I'm more extroverted. And you know, it's really about where you draw your energy from.

From the way I see it.

I mean, I've done back to back interviews like this today and I was just talking to my wife downstairs that I am ecstatic, that this is my last one because I am wiped. However, if I was sitting down in front of my laptop and just working away, I'd be charging up. And that's really the difference. It's where you draw your energy from. So if you draw your energy from being with people, like I would assume you might, you know, you're extroverted. If you draw your energy from, you know, being by yourself, you're introverted. It doesn't mean that you can't sell market, you know, network social media, speak from stage. It just means that afterwards you're tired. It's like, it doesn't mean you can't even enjoy it. I mean, for me, when I do interviews like this, I feel like a kid at Disneyland. I have a great time, I have a great conversation. It just means that, you know, I want to lie down afterwards and I get the realism of how exhausted I am.

Okay, because that's what I was going to ask you is you have to do this. Like, this is how you promote your book, the work you do. So you're required to do this, but it's only sustainable to a certain point is what I'm hearing.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I batch these as well. Like, the reason why I have a whole bunch of interviews today is tomorrow. I've got creative work to do and I, you know, if I do a podcast in the morning, there is no creative part of me for hours afterwards. So I have to change my energy the right way. It doesn't mean that I can't do this. It does mean I have to prepare a lot more. Like you're a lot more off the cuff than I am and we're talking about what I know. Well, right then I have no problem talking in detail about these things. And when I go networking or Go out and sell. Sometimes something will come up that I'm not prepared for. And because it's one thing, not 100 things that if you're prepared for sales or networking in general, I can usually cope really well. Or there's something similar that I'll be able to link to. And then because of that I come across as organic and dynamic. However, when I first started, it required a lot of practice. It required me really thinking about the way a sale would go, or the way a networking event would go, or the way a podcast interview would go. Now, I mean, we were saying just before this it was like, ask me whatever you want, no problem. That's 50 plus interviews in. I just know what I'm doing.

Yeah, okay, okay, I gotcha. So, but is there I use the word spectrum? I was kind of saying it flippantly, but I also, I'm curious. People can be more introverted. I've also heard this term ambivert. How does someone determine where they are beyond just the energy? And, and does that even matter? To put ourselves in this category? Does that start to hamper us?

Yes. So firstly, I think it does matter and the reason why is, and it really matters for the people, as you would put it, that are further down the introverted spectrum. And I would also say further down the extroverted spectrum because let's say a lot of extroverts really struggle with things like active listening and empathy. These are, you know, introverted specialities. It's like our advantage. The difference is that what I find is extroverts will realize that they have those disadvantages and they'll go and do training to get better at it or HR in an organization will see that they struggle with those things and send them to training. But with introverts, especially the ones that are further down that spectrum, it's like, oh, they're an introvert. They're never going to be able to do that. So you know, we just have to deal with that. Or you know, the amazing amount of times I've seen people that have just accepted subpar results in their sales team, in their senior leaders, just because they're introverts and they're never going to be able to succeed. And it's because there's this gift of gab barrier. It's like this self imposed wall that we put on ourselves and then we put it on everybody else and it's ridiculous. I mean, Zig Ziglar, probably the most well known speaker and trainer in the sales world was an introvert. Jeb Blunt is an introvert. Ivan Meisner, the founder of bni, also an introvert. Yet we just say, oh, no, that person is good on stage, that person's a good salesperson. They must be extroverted. It's just. It's not true.

Interesting. It's funny. As you're sharing this too, I would qualify myself. Slight slant toward introvert, which externally people. But you like to be on stage, you like to be so funny, you try to be funny, which I'm goofy maybe at best.

But.

When it comes to the energy source, I get more energy out of project time being by myself. Your book, the Introverts Edge. Well, that's your pinnacle book. That was your first book. What is the edge? Like, what advantage do? If I can put myself in the introvert category, what do we have that others don't necessarily.

Yes. So I think that our advantage actually, so I always say, you know, that our struggles in the past really see the success of our future. And, you know, introverts without a sales system, I mean, let's face it, we kind of suck at selling, but with a system, we can be amazing at it and we get better and better. So, you know, an extrovert, they love to wing it, and they can succeed pretty well at winging it, but every day they're winging it. So they're just as bad or just as good as they were yesterday.

There's no repeatability.

Exactly. I mean, everything you talk about in your. In all your books is, you know, you've got to have systems and ways of looking at things. Well, for me, it was like with this world of sales, why is it that everyone says you can either do it or you can't? Well, the truth is an introvert can do it, but what they have to do is gravitate to a regimented system. Now, the focus of a system, just like anything else, it feels cumbersome and difficult at the start, but over time, it starts to feel comfortable. And then you can say, okay, we've now got this system. Now we want to put continuous improvement, right? We want to focus on improving little elements, but we'll improve one thing at a time so that we know what's blowing up in our face if it goes wrong. So the great thing is that because introverts are terrible at selling without a system, we kind of hold onto it for dear life. And because of that, we get better and better. We become obsessed with the system. And that's a huge advantage because at the start we may struggle, but then eventually the Extroverts were like, oh, those guys, they just, they're always causing issues. They mis explain things to clients. Why? Because they're explaining it differently every time, where an introvert explains it exactly the same. And that's why we do so well. And I mean, this isn't new stuff Brian Tracy talks about. I mean, he's definitely an extrovert, by the way, but he talks about the top 10% of all sales performers have a planned presentation. Well, if you think about planning, I mean that is an introvert's edge. Right? We love to plan, we love to prepare. And because of those abilities, that allows us, especially if we've got the right system, to leverage our empathy, our ability to actively listen. And then of course we follow a system. So those are real advantages that we have. I mean, he says that the bottom 80%, they just say whatever comes out of their mouth. And if you think about it, if an introvert just says whatever comes out of their mouth compared to an extrovert, we're probably not going to do as well. I mean, we get stuck in our head a lot of the times in the moments past, or we just, you know, we get too much into the jargon and the detail, especially in industries like and finance. A lot of times, especially when we're talking about highly complex products or services. A lot of times we think it's our job to explain all of these things to a client at a networking event or when we're selling, when we're just meeting with people casually and it's just overwhelming for people. So introverts need to learn how to make that information more palatable. And they can come up with stories, especially if they know their niche. They can come up with stories that easily explain it while embedding them as the only logical choice. And then all of a sudden they're turning off the fire hose and they' instantly more relatable to the client.

Now I can see why that 150 podcast serves you right. So you start building this routine and process. Does it need to be documented to get the edge or is this something that just by the nature of being an introvert, we start building the systems in our mind?

Yeah. So the answer is both and originally. And the reason why I would say both is because if I'm a sole trader, I just work for myself. I am my salesperson.

Right.

So because of that, yes, it is something that I can do in my head. However, you know, I would prefer to practice it and practice it and make sure I'm following the same process. So I do prefer to document it down. And the reason for that is, especially when you're learning, like for me now, I, you know, it's something that I do in my head. I'm like, okay, Mike's got this whole new focus on his interview, so he's going to take me probably well off left field. But here are the real things that I. So I plan out what things I do want to talk about. But. But because I've done so many interviews and been asked so many strange and deviating questions, I know how to handle those as well. But when I first started, I would study the flow of the interviews that would come up and what I was going to answer for each one. And I'd start off almost scripting out what I was going to say so I could practice. Then I went to, okay, I'll just dot point out what I'm going to say because now I'm getting better at it and I've got some things, some anchor points to leverage, and now I'm much more natural and comfortable. But a lot of the things I'm talking about are things I've talked about many times before. But not in the same interviews, perhaps. Right. Really what it comes down to is, especially when you're selling is always. I mean, especially. Most introverts never want to be selling their entire life. Right. Their dream is that they'll put on a salesperson or create an automatic sales process online so they never have to sell. So for me, I always start with that in mind. And for me, any introvert that thinks they can just hire a salesperson. I know accountants are like this. They're like, I just want to hire a salesperson. Have them go out and sell the rainmaker. Yeah, exactly. The problem is that means you're going to hire $150,000 person and they're going to give you every excuse in the book for the next six months while you continue to pay to pay them. And you'll buy all these excuses because you think sales is hard. And six months will go by, paid them $75,000, and you've got nothing out of it. So the thing that you need to do is learn how to sell. Learn how to network yourself. Make sure you get everything that you say documented. And then you'll hand it to. To a salesperson and they'll say, oh, no, it'd be better if I sell it. Sell it my way. That's them saying, I don't want to do that. That sounds like a lot of work. But, you know, think back to every movie you've ever watched, right? They're all reading from a script, right? They sound authentic because they practice. So I always say, sure, eventually you'll be able to do whatever you want. But first, why don't you learn this? Once you prove to me you know this and you can do it, well, then if you want to change things afterwards, we can talk about it. Of course, once they've learned it, they think it's amazing. And their closure rate so high, they never want to change it. So the goal for introverts, if you want to get yourself out of the SAL process, just like if you want to get yourself out of administration, you have to create, you know, a process that other people can follow to the letter and that brings. It gets rid of all the variability and it makes sure that you have the highest statistical chance of success every single time.

Yeah, it's funny, you're talking about salespeople. I found that good salespeople are good about good at about one sale every six months, which is selling their reason to have that job. And then they get fired and they sell the next job. Great salespeople can actually sell. This may be a strange and deviating question because you said sometimes you get asked strange and deviated questions, which may throw you off totally. But what's like, one of the strangest, most deviating questions you've gotten?

Is it this one?

You know, it's interesting. I get. People ask me, well, the hardest question I've ever found to answer is, you know, tell me something about yourself. No one knows. And I'm like, have you not seen any of my presentations? I like, put photos of myself with terrible acne up on stage so that people can see me as I was. Like, with me. I don't hold back. Because the problem is, I mean, you and I are having this conversation and you've just outed yourself as an introvert. And I talk about the fact that I'm an introvert, but let's face it, if you saw us in general, day to day, people would be like, oh, that guy, it's easy for him. It's not easy for me. So I give away everything, but, you know, I get asked random questions like, you know, if, you know, if you were a color, what would you be? And I'm like, what? What has that got to do? A podcast interview. And it's like, you know, one of these mood kind of podcasts. And I'm like, okay, well, I clearly should have listened to that podcast. But you know, when I started, I listened to every single episode. Sorry, I listened to one or two episodes before I would do a podcast. Now, you know, I've got back to back interviews. You know, if it's a big one, I'll listen to one or two just.

To get the idea of the flow.

But a lot of the smaller ones, I just, you know, I just don't have the time to do it. But once you get the system down, it's fine. But yeah, the hardest questions I always get asked is, you know, well, some weird questions like, like what you just said. What I just said. Yeah. The biggest questions that I get asked is tell me something that, you know, I haven't told anyone, that you haven't told anyone before. And when you've done it.

Oh, I hate that question. That's called lazy interviewing.

Yeah.

So what's one question you've been asked before? I'm kidding. Okay.

I actually had to come up with one recently, so. Yeah, so, so. And I'm not gonna, I'm gonna say the name of the podcast, but there's one of these, you know, top 10 podcasts in the world. The guy, the. The guy's a good friend of mine, but I had to still fill. He's like, what's one thing you've never told before? And I had to really think. And I'm like, well, I've never actually told this story. I've written it in the book. But you asked me what story.

Oh, there you go.

So I've written about it in the book. But you know what was interesting? And this is actually a really cool story. So now I've already submitted the application, so it won't be a story I haven't told before after this. But the, when I wrote, when I wrote this book, the Introverts Edge, what was interesting was I put it out there and I sent it. You know, one of the people that picked up the book was somebody actually worked with me on Small Business Festival, which is a conference I run to put out free events all across the country for small business owners. And he had it on the coffee table. And his son, who's super introverted, I'm talking, you know, hoodie over, looks at his shoes the whole time he picked up the book and he's always been really interested in business books. So he read it and he went, wow, if you can systemize a sale, maybe I can systemize the process of making friends.

Oh, interesting.

So he was in primary school and also middle school here in America. He was in Middle school and he walked around with my book for like a month and he would start the process of having dialogue. Well, fast forward about three months, the hoodie's off, he's got friends, there's a girl in the picture and his life is different. He's now one of the popular kids. And it was all because what he realized is the conversational dialogues went the same way. So what happened is, you know, we had a whole bunch of people say, Matt, you know, it's great systemizing the sales process. Now I'm closing more lead, but I need more leads to come in so that I can sell to them. So can you have a book on networking? And you know, for people that don't know my backstory, I mean I had a reading speed of a sixth grader in late high school. So writing for me is not fun. I literally write things out and then listen to it with a robot voice.

So I can hear it.

I mean, it's why my books all sound so conversational, because if it doesn't, I feel like it's like nails on a chalkboard. But you know, because of this story with him, I was like, wow, if this kid can really see the fact that you can systemize making friends, I need to do more of these. And you know, obviously the next natural trajectory was we need to do one on networking. So that's why we bought this one out. But also, I mean I moved from Australia to the United States and didn't know anyone and then built a really good network really quickly. So people have always asked me how I did that. So it was great opportunity to really decode that and show people.

Do you plan on doing more books after the insiders edged the introverts edge to networking? Are you going to do more books beyond that?

Yeah, absolutely. So I mean it's going to be a series, so there'll be a ton of books that will come off the back of it. But that being said, you know, for me, I mean my mission is really about helping introverts realize that they're not second class citizens, they're just path to success is different to that of an extrovert. Yeah, that extends well beyond just what I can teach. So at the moment, I mean the first book, let's face it, there wasn't really that many books on introversion and most of the books on introversion focused on poor you, you're an introvert. Let me show you how to survive in an extroverted world. So that's why the book was called the Introvert's Edge. It was like, forget that, let me show you how to dominate in an engineering world. But the second book is now really looking at much more of a general topic like networking. But let's face it, there's only a certain amount of topics that I can write and have a real high level approach to. So there will be a few more that I will write. But I want the mission to extend well beyond me. So that's why on my Introverts Edge podcast I'm always interviewing what I call titan introverts about what their struggles were and how they became successful, what systems they had and what they consider their introverts edge. But eventually the books will open up to every topic under the sun that I can think of that would be considered an extroverted arena. So we'll open up to leadership, to public speaking, probably the things like parenting, to making friends, to dating perhaps. You know, I want to see this become a much bigger topic than what I would consider myself a master in and really open it up to other authors that will still open to the storytelling format but share it with the world.

So smart. I did that with Profit First. It was profit first we did for verticals, so for contractors, for e commerce providers. Very smart strategy. So let me ask you about your own personal life. So you were, a lot of people may not know this. You were a door to door salesperson. It's funny because you're an introvert. You don't want to be out there networking and it sounded like it was a pretty tough journey, but you stuck through it. Tell me a little bit about that story.

Yeah, sure. I mean, so I mean, you know, the story. Well, there's no way I should be.

Where I am today. Like none. I mean I was. And this is what I talk about in a lot of my stage presentations is, you know, I'll tell a few stories because I think stories are a great way to educate and inspire. I mean the science behind that as well.

But the thing that, you know, most.

People get to about two thirds of my presentation, you can see all the introverts in the room going, oh, it's easy for you though. But you know, for me it's difficult, difficult. You know, I'm an introvert, I can't do it. So I talk about, you know, my story and how I got to where I am and I mean, yeah, for me I had a reading speed of a sixth grader. Actually had the glasses for the people that are watching this on your YouTube channel. But I got diagnosed with this thing called Irwin Syndrome, which means I put on a pair of funny colored lenses and miraculously I throw them on.

Let's see what it looks like.

You're gonna get this for a second. Right. I do this on Power on presentations as well.

Right.

There you go.

Now they've actually changed from like a dark gray to the blue ones that you see now over time. But what was happening is I put on these pair of glasses and yeah, I can learn to read, but I can't learn like, I can't read like everyone else in my year. I've got to start the process of learning. Like, that's when my development began. So here I was with reading speed issues. I'd been used to being the slow kid. I had horrible acne and braces back then and now I've got to put on funny colored lenses. So it wasn't really big for my confidence. So I got into the top 20% of the state in Victoria, Australia, and my family could see I was exhausted.

They were just.

I had nothing left in the tank and I didn't know what I wanted to do. So we just agreed I'd spend a year finding myself. But I mean, what happened was I took a job at a real estate agency. Not in the front office, don't worry, in the back office doing data entry. And I had this look on my face like, don't speak to me. I'm here to find myself. Right, right. And three weeks into that job, my boss comes up to me and he's like, matt, I'm so sorry. We just found out they're closing down this office. You're out of a job. So this is Australia, right? I mean, everyone knows everything's backwards in Australia, right? So summer and Christmas at the same time. We go on holidays from the 20th of December to the 15th and 20th of January. I mean, no one's hiring if you're a small business especially you're like, no, thank you. About to take a month off. I don't want to carry another wage for a month long break. So the only jobs I could find in the paper were these three jobs. And they were all commission, only sales roles. And I mean, as you can imagine, that was terrifying to me. But the only thing that was worse was going home to tell my father who broke his back 80 hours a week. That's it. I'm just out of a job and I'm going to sit and watch Oprah for the next year.

Yeah.

So I just went, you know, I'm going to apply for him anyway.

And my confidence was boosted by the.

Fact I got on the phone to all three and they all gave me an interview. And then I found I got all three jobs. It turns out commission only jobs, just hire everyone. Well, that's it. So my manager, I took a job in Door to door direct, you know, business to business, telecommunications. And the manager, on day one, he said, we've got the saying, we throw mud up against the wall and we see what sticks. Fun until you're the mud, right? So I was like, okay, so I'm going to learn how to sell here, right? Five days in, I. It was all product training. Then they throw me out on a road called Sydney Road in Melbourne, Australia. And they're like, go sell. I'm like, I don't even know what to say. So I take a deep breath, I walk into the first door, and luckily, I was politely told to leave. I mean, the next door I was less politely told to leave. Then I was sworn at. But my personal favorite was always, why don't you go get a real job?

The insult to injury. Yeah.

Yeah.

So I was like, all right. So door after door this happened until I got to the 93rd door where I made my first sale.

And I was.

I was ecstatic for about 45 seconds until I had that realization that that $70 was great today, but tomorrow I got to do this again next day. So, I mean, I went home. And I think a lot of people that are listening right now, we kind of live in this world where. And you know, it's funny, small business.

We've got this whole mentality now we're.

Just going to grind it out. We'll just hustle through it. And that seems to be a good thing. I mean, it's definitely better than quitting, don't get me wrong, which is what 18 to 20 people in my training group did.

But I went, well, no, I mean.

Hustling it out every day doesn't sound great either. So I went, I'm going to decide that sales is a system. A system like anything else, and I'm.

Going to go away to learn it.

Now, again with my reading speed issues, picking up a Brian Tracy or Zig Ziglar book, not going to happen.

But you know what I did do.

Is I went to YouTube and I typed in sales system, and all these videos came up. And then I just focused on a system. And every day I'd focus on eight hours practicing, eight hours at home, you.

Know, learning how to do it.

And then I'd go out the next day and put it to work.

And literally it went from 93 doors to 76 to 41 to 32 to 12, down to three. Wow. Six weeks in. It was only really six weeks because, I mean, everyone's like, oh, yeah. But it takes too long to learn. Six weeks in, my manager puts me, pulls me into his office. I thought I did something wrong because I was the quiet guy. Just hand my paperwork in downstairs, go upstairs, keep to myself. And literally he said, matt, we just printed out the national sales results. You're actually number one salesperson in the company. I mean, this place had thousands of sales reps, and I'm the number one. And it was all because I just focused on every day. System, system, system.

Oh, my gosh. So you were averaging three sales a day sale every three doors. Did you leave that job ultimately because you were looking for something new or how'd that come to conclusion?

So actually, what happened? So I got. So I got promoted straight after that. Because apparently, because you're a good salesperson, you're also a good sales manager.

Oh, mistake.

Yeah, I mean, we've all seen that. Oh, you're an amazing salesperson. So go and teach those people, especially extroverts. Right? Just do what I do. Well, that doesn't work. So I got given a team. All 20 people quit within 24 hours. So nice. Did not work. So back to YouTube, learned how to manage, and actually got pretty good at it. So I got promoted about seven times in the space of a year. But what I noticed is every time I got promoted, I would earn less because they give me a little bit more of everybody else. But I was getting promoted so quickly, and I got less time to go out and sell. And I went, this is ridiculous. I got to own the shop. So I decided about 12 months in.

To go and start my own.

My own business. And I started telecommunications was all I knew back then. And literally so within the space of three years, we became the number one brokership for B2B cell phones in the country, in Australia. And then fast forward a decade. I mean, I've been responsible for five multimillion dollar success stories. That was, you know, just before I turned 30 and I hopped on a plane and came over to closer to your side of the world.

So here's the thing. I think many people, and I'm speaking for myself, I think many people associate introversion to lack of drive. But I'm hearing that's not true, Especially in your story. I mean, introverted and extreme drive. Is that a Good assessment that introversion, where we get energy and our drive is not correlated.

Oh, not correlated at all. I mean, let's just say I needed to have drive because the world did not work for me, period. I mean, there you go. And because of that, it was like everything was hard for me. So when I struggled at sales, it was just, oh, this is just the next thing I've got to grind it through. But I always went the way everyone else says to do. It doesn't work for me. So therefore, I was always open to finding another path. So that was always a big thing for me. So introverts, I think that we create excuses for ourselves. And I think that's the difference. I mean, let's face it, if you look at really highly introverted career paths, you've got accounting, financial planning, legal, it. I mean, these are not mortuaries.

Just adding that in.

Yeah, Actually, I. This January, before the whole Covid thing, I was the featured keynote speaker at Dead Talks.

No Dead Talks? Are you kidding me?

You know, it's a play on TED talks.

Of course.

I get it. That's awesome.

Existed.

Yeah. So it's put on by the national association of Cemeteries and Crematoriums. They're all small businesses. Right. So they asked me if I could speak because when I first got into speaking, I was. My first. One of my first big keynotes was the Order of the Golden Rule. And I went, well, I'll take what's coming. And the Order of the Golden Rule was for a group of kids that were taking over their parents. Cemetery businesses to, you know, how.

Sorry.

Funeral parlor businesses and how they could get ready. So I did my research. Like, funnily enough, a lot of speakers don't research what they're doing. But I did my research before I went in, and I created this almost like, you know, pitch the boss kind of thing with their parents. And, you know, I built a keynote around it. It was such an interactive thing. I got this reputation as the guy to hire in the. In the funeral parlor and cemetery industry. So I still get invited to go and speak about.

That is actually funny. It's ironic. It's a little bit ironic.

Well, I, you know, I love doing it, but yes, you're right. It's a. It's a very introverted industry. Data analytics is another one. Actually, custom home building is another one. I have a ton of custom home builder clients because the good ones, especially the ones that do the multimillion dollar builds, you know, they had to really understand building. They went deeper and because of that, that's that analytical mind. So I wouldn't say, you know, introverts aren't willing to do the hustle, but what I would say is introverts are very willing to do the hustle if they can see a path where success is possible. And I think that's the difference. Extroverts know that they can succeed at these things, so they're willing to do the grunt work. But can you imagine knowing that you were likely going to fail, why would you put in the effort? And that's literally what introverts do to themselves. They say, well, I can't sell, I can't network. So I just have to accept the.

Fact that I'm going to have subpar.

Performance in my sales abilities. And that sucks because if you're a business owner, that means you can't live a life that revolves around you, your family and your life because you're always going to have to put twice as much work in than the extroverts. And it's also not true. So the fact that people believe this to be true is why, you know, I put so much energy into these podcasts, because it's really the only one I can help. I mean, even if people don't buy my books, you know, it's not about that. It's really about them understanding that as introverts, their path to success is just different. And when they embrace that, they can really start looking for the path that get themselves to the outcomes that they truly want for themselves in their personal life and in their careers.

I really like that. You know, I think extroverts and it, it translates in some cases to overconfidence. So therefore there's a lack of preparation when we're hearing from introverts. It's a, in some cases a lack of confidence which then results in more preparation. So that balances it out. Right? So maybe the extrovert is kind of the rabbit out of the race, but then the introverts more of the turtle. It has the confidence and it doesn't stop. I want to know about the introverts edge to networking specifically. So is there a couple hacks tricks that you can give us introverts on how to network from the book?

Yeah, absolutely. So if we focus on two, I mean the first one, I would really say the biggest problem that introverts have, I mean it extends well past like an extrovert has this problem as well, but their big buoyant personality gets them around it. But for an introvert, it's the problem of when people ask us what we do, I mean, what is it that you do, Mark? What is it that you do, Matt? And it's all of a sudden, well, I'm a business coach or I'm an accountant. And people go, oh, I've got one of those. Oh, well, now that's awkward. What do I say to that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, my first experience when I moved to the US Before I figured out how to network the right way, because all my success, all my network in Australia was because of my success in business. When I got here and I decided that I wanted to have more of a personal brand, teaching people sales and marketing, I went, you know, oh, I miss. I'm a sales trainer. I'm a sales trainer. And then he went, oh, I had a really bad experience with the sales trainer. And he then explained the story about how that person was just, like, one step above a scam artist. And that's how he's looking at me. I'm like, oh, that's terrible. Or we could hit a winner. And they're like, oh, I've been dying to hire a coach. How much do you cost? Well, now we got to talk about price. We've just met, but it's still not positive. So the thing that introverts especially need to do is change that balance. And what I suggest is creating what I call a unified message. So.