Podcast Recap | Ep 57 Body Language Working Remotely w Erica Dhawan
In this episode of the podcast, host Mike Michalowicz introduces guest Erica Dhawan, author of Digital Body Language, to discuss how communication has shifted in the remote‑work era. The conversation highlights that modern digital interaction relies more on implicit cues than the explicit, demonstrative signals of in‑person meetings. Key takeaways include the importance of thorough pre‑meeting preparation—clear calendar invites and agendas—to set expectations; using Zoom’s chat/comments to capture contributions from quieter participants; favoring phone or video messages over lengthy text exchanges to preserve tone and intent; employing emojis, audio texting, and quick clarification loops to reduce misunderstandings; and treating email as an active‑listening tool by reading and acknowledging messages promptly. Participants share personal anecdotes illustrating these challenges, such as misread texts, memory‑related frustrations, and the loss of nuance in pure text. The episode also features lighthearted banter and an Oprah‑themed trivia segment used to engage listeners before the closing call‑to‑action to rate and subscribe to the show.
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Foreign.
So I met Erica Dewan through an author's meetup. I'm hosting or co hosting with Todd Herman and John Rulin, and we invited some folks in. One of the members or participants last time was Dory Clark. She's written the entrepreneurial you, reinventing you. And she's friends with Erica Dewan, who wrote Digital Body Language. And when Erica came in, she just shared perspectives of communicating in this new environment in such a fascinating way. I was like, do you mind coming on the podcast? She's like, oh, absolutely. I'll share it all. So listen on in to Erica Dewan. While you're listening in, go to Amazon and type in Digital Body Language. I encourage you to pick up a copy of the book. So what I took away immediately is that the new language is far more implicit than it was explicit before, where we're much more demonstrative. And now with this kind of new normal and how we're communicating that, it's, it's the preparation, it's, it's the nuanced chat that is really much more important than it was before. What'd you all think?
That's what I had written down.
You want to tear me apart.
Your name is Justin Love. And I just realized it.
Oh, on the chat. Yeah.
And then it's one of those things where you know when you're not supposed to laugh, like when you're at a funeral and then you can't help it.
Oh, I hate that.
Yeah, it's not even that funny. But, you know, it's unstoppable.
My wife's grandfather, Dick han, he has 80th birthday. And we went and we were at the party, this is in. On Coronado in San Diego. And we're at this beautiful home and they start celebrating like, we want to honor Dick. And my sister in law, Tammy, she starts laughing. And I sit there, I'm like, oh my God. And the Dick comments wouldn't stop. Like, someone's like, who here loves Dick? And everyone's like, I all love. Everyone's like, I love Dick. And then he start going, let me tell you about my story with Dick. It's like, could you just please use him?
Richard.
What did.
Or Richard or Mr. Han. Everyone had to talk about Dick.
What was his last name? What was his last name? Mike Han.
Dick Han. H A H N. I thought you.
Said look at Jeremy's name.
No, Dick Han. And it was. I couldn't stop laughing. And so people started looking over like, what's so funny? I'm like, oh, so I had to leave the room. Krista got upset with me. Why are you laughing like, you're so immature. I'm like, I know, I know.
It was so funny.
And it went on for hours.
It felt like.
It only feels that way when you're trying to. I know.
Five minutes of celebrating Dick, but it's torture trying to.
Oh, God.
What else?
I thought I liked how she said it's about how we make people feel. And that in today's mode of communication, what's really important is just the initial calendar invite. Have you got everybody clear and on. On the same page? Are you including everybody?
Yeah.
You got to make up for all those cues that you're not giving each other when you're face to face and things like that. So that was interesting.
Yeah. Go in prepared. You can't shoot from the hip nearly as much as it was my thought.
Yeah. I also loved her tip about in, like, zoom meetings to put comments, have folks put their, you know, points in the comments, and then whoever is facilitating they pick out the best responses as opposed to the extroverted, outspoken people always getting. And that the first three. Three people who speak in a meeting.
Yeah, that was interesting.
The agenda.
Yeah, yeah, I know that was interesting.
Me either. But I think that's true.
I think it is true.
So it means we're dictating right now. And Jeremy, who's going by Dick Hung, he just changed his name. Is out. Is out to dry. Like we've dictated the agenda for today's discussion. I also like.
Okay.
I also like that she said a phone or video message beats a thousand emails.
Yeah.
So much can be lost. So much of the intent behind communication can be lost in actual. Just raw text that the doing it by phone or video. We can give a lot more context around what we're trying to communicate.
So. Yeah, that's why I despise texting because people take things wrong way all the time. And you're constantly having to, like, clarify or, like, add emojis to like, give that kind of dimension to the emotion.
Jeremy and I just did this with each other yesterday. He's like, are you mad at me?
Oh, yeah.
No, me and Jeremy.
You and Jeremy?
Yeah, because our texts were such that it sounded like I was abrupt with him or something like that. So then he had to, like a clarification, like, are we cool? Did you get this information from me? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I'm so sorry.
So there is.
There's so much that's lost or. Yeah, so Much.
I've gotten to audio texting. If someone else has an iPhone as audio text consistently now, it's faster and the context isn't lost.
I just, I miss talking to people. I find that if somebody sends me a novel through text, I just look at it and sigh like, oh God, come on. Like, if you're gonna text that much, like, just pick up the phone. We can get everything done within five seconds.
But conversely, it's like you can respond on your timeline. Like sometimes I hate having somebody call me because I'm like in the middle of something. I would just let me get back to you when I can and let you know, let there be this kind of trickle out. Like my mom's the worst because it's like she has to call and then it's an hour long conversation as opposed to. I just need an answer to this one little thing.
For me, because of my short term memory loss, I like having the conversation transcribed there so I know what I'm referring to. And like what was stated and what were the, what were the particulars of this, you know, thing that we're talking about?
Do you really have a short term memory loss?
I swear I do.
I was in a experience that with you have other people have. Your husband, has he said something?
Oh my. Well, right now my family's like, they're honestly, they're legitimately frightened by my brain. They're like, we literally just told you. And I'm like, I'm very busy. I keep all of your world circling in my brain constantly. You guys are only responsible for your own lives. I'm responsible for everybody's life.
So I kind of nicely played, Amy, really put the responsibility back on.
This is a lie. Because even in college. I was in a statistics class in college and I don't know why the professor did this, but he had this meter with these rotating numbers on it. A series of numbers. I think there were like six digits in this number and it rotated through maybe eight different sets of numbers. And we weren't excused from class until you could get to a point where you could predict what the next series of numbers was going to be based on pattern and memory. I have no memory. It just is like as soon. And this is why I'm math phobic too, because I'm the person who can't carry the number because I've forgotten what the number. I could carry that number, but I don't remember what that number other number was. Like, there's no. It's literally like writing on the what do you guys call it? The Buddha board? The one that you. It just disappears. It's like. It's gone.
Buddha boards kind of died out within a minute.
Yeah.
Nobody's using it, but, like, you know, wishing everyone good times, and you're like, but it disappeared.
It disappears. So it's only coming.
Is it gone?
Yeah.
That you write on it are gone.
No, no, no.
But the Buddha board itself, is it gone?
No. I think it might be in a draw or something. I don't know.
Well, I thought me, out of spite.
I threw it out.
Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised.
Yeah, I poured cherry juice on it first.
Nobody responded to my message. Damn it.
I said this. I'm like, can you guys hear me? Where are you? Do you want to go to lunch?
Nobody's replying.
It's because I'm vanishing the Buddha board. All right, we got to roll on. Yeah. You got something else to say?
I would say I do. Like, to that point that she said, the new active listening is clearly reading emails. They're really reading people's emails and acknowledging that because.
And I would like to apologize today because just today, Kelsey sent me something that I didn't read. Well, I'm just biting my fingernails.
Oh, okay.
And Jeremy did the same thing to me yesterday. I'm in a very, like, jumpy mood, and I'm not reading thoroughly everything I should. So, yeah, it is. It's a something that needs to be improved on us in this virtual world, even though I'm in the same office with Kelsey.
Dude, you're getting shit done. You're the only one only getting done around here.
Thanks.
I'm kidding.
I'm kidding. I have the most backhanded compliment coming your way tomorrow. So funny about getting done.
We'll see. It's fun.
Okay.
Does it involve.
No, it's the tree. It's about the tree.
Oh, it's going to be about how I got Aaron to do it.
Yeah, exactly. Amy was assigned one job to make a tree for the wall. And I see Aaron there sweating, like, hours and hours of work carving.
I'm like, well, to be fair, I was told I was to manage the project.
Well, then you did an extraordinary job then. I'm impressed.
Thanks.
Genius. Genius. All right, we have a game. We have a fun game.
Let's do it.
So it's very fun. Erica was named a Thinkers50. I don't know what that means, but it was by Oprah Management ideas. So this. This is a trivia of Oprah. Wow. Yeah. Where was Oprah born. Was it Mississippi, Georgia, or Alabama? All right, you guys ready for the next one? Okay, Oprah's name on her birth certificate, is it Harpo? H O r P O Orpa, O R P a H or Pora? P O R a H. Yeah.
I never knew that.
This is my favorite one. So her net worth is currently 3.5 billion, and she earns around 315 million per year from her media company alone. If you were to stack $100 bills 3ft high and fill a standard size pallet in a cube, how many pallets would you have to fill in order to equal her net worth? Okay, is it 12? This is to give you perspective.
Dollar bill.
She said $100 bill. Oh, $100 bills. Layered, one on top of each other, three feet high. On a standard size pallet, which is about three feet by three and a half feet or something like that. In a cube, how many of those pallets would you have to have to equal her net worth? Is it 12, 16, or 22?
Can I say none of the above? I was expecting like 4,000 pallets or something. Outside.
No. Perspective.
Yeah, that's me.
Just to give you an idea, $10,000 of $100 bills is about like this.
It's like, okay, I'm interested.
It's like. It's like an not even an inch thick stack. And then a million is like. Like this.
You know, like how you're a lower hand on the screen.
So.
Dude, like this. Just to give you perspective. I won't give you perspective.
Yeah. Okay. So where was she born?
Mississippi.
Is it Alabama?
It was Mississippi. Yep.
This next one's got me nervous, though. I don't know.
Okay, so what is her name on.
Her birth certificate said Harpo. Just because that's her.
No, that's her business. It's the second one.
I know.
I think it's Orpa. I think I remember reading that it was Orpa. Harpo makes sense because that's what she named her name.
Maybe there's a double meaning.
What is it, Jer?
It's Orpa.
Was that answer number two or three?
I just put two. That was two. Yeah. So apparently people would pronounce it wrong so much that she went with Oprah. And then Harpo is just Oprah reversed for her business. Okay, so her net worth is 3 1/2 billion. Viewer. To stack $100 bills 3ft high, fill standard size pallet in a cube with those bills, how many pallets would you have to fill in order to equal her net worth? 22.
I'm going to go with 22.
It's 22. Just think about that. 22 pallets stacked with $100 bills in order to equal how much her net worth is.
The funny thing is I was like, no, it's got to be way more than that.
Yeah, I would have thought that, too.
Yeah.
Well, so $1 billion is roughly. Six pallets is a billion. There you go.
So three times six. Eighteen pallets. But she's a little more than that.
Yes.
All right, we gotta rock and roll. We got one more of these to do to review. Even though our listeners will listen to next week. We gotta hop on right now. But before we leave you, I want to invite you to rate our show. Go to RateOurPodcast.com Please also subscribe if you're enjoying the show. You want to make sure you don't miss anything. And I appreciate your questions because I want to answer them on our show. Ask Mike at mikemcalowitz. Com. All right, we're out of here.
Wishing you.
Wishing you good times.
