Recap| Ep 56 The Future of Workspace and Culture w Paul Holland #MUIYB Podcast
In this episode of the MUIYB podcast, host Mike Michalowicz, along with co‑hosts Amy, Jacob, and occasional guest Jeremy, interview Paul Holland, an executive at Solomon Coyle, about the evolving landscape of office space and workplace culture. The conversation opens with Holland’s observation that office furniture purchases serve as a leading indicator of whether people are actually using office spaces—if companies aren’t buying desks or even toilet paper, the office is likely under‑utilized. The hosts explore the implications of this trend for hybrid work models, distinguishing between “head‑down” focused work (often done remotely) and spontaneous, collaborative work that benefits from physical proximity. They discuss how authentic culture cannot be manufactured through token amenities like foosball tables; instead, it should reflect the team’s true preferences, such as outdoor or garden‑style workspaces. Holland’s optimism about repurposing excess office real‑estate into coworking and event venues is highlighted, suggesting a shift from traditional corporate footprints to flexible, community‑focused spaces. Interspersed throughout are casual anecdotes about personal productivity tools (Apple Reminders), routine activities that spark brainstorming, and a light‑hearted fish‑nutrition trivia game that serves as comic relief. The episode concludes with calls to action for listeners to visit SolomonCoyle.com, rate the podcast, and check out Mike’s new book, “Get Different.”
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Foreign. So on this episode of Mic up in your business, we interview Paul Holland. Paul is an executive over at Solomon Coil and shares insights which I thought was very interesting. A lead indicator of what the future beholds in regards to office space. The remote environment is furniture self. If people aren't buying furniture for offices, they're probably not going to offices. Well, listening to what Paul shared and his insights, I thought it was a interesting interview.
I thought it was a really interesting conversation. Love this conversation.
The idea that of course, if you're not buying this, the core supply for an office which is furniture, you're not using it. If you're not buying toilet paper for the bathroom, maybe no one's using the bathroom.
Right.
I think this is an interesting clear indicator of what is coming down the pike.
Yeah. You know what I wasn't thinking about was in moving to a virtual space. I was thinking about the employees. I wasn't really thinking about your clients perspective of your work world.
Right.
You know what it is you're showing? That was a perspective shift for me in that conversation to be like, oh yeah, that's something else you have to be considering and thinking about. And you know, I also liked. And this made me think about us guys. Yes. I always think about wine. I'm always thinking about wine. But there was something else. You know how Mike, you guys were talking about the things people do to create like culture in the office and they, you know, you've got the foosball table and the ping pong table, but you know, nobody's really using those. Da, da, da. It has to be authentic. That was a really good point. You and Paul made that point. I thought that was really cool. And you know what I was thinking?
What?
I'm dreaming big here. People dreaming big. But our next office space for us people. Don't you think we are an outdoor bunch? Don't you think we need green space?
Oh, I like that.
That's authentic to us. Jeremy's an outdoor guy, Aaron's an outdoor girl. You're an outdoor guy. I'm a garden girl. Kelsey's an outdoor girl.
I think that's, that's super interesting.
Yeah.
And what do you think? Just so, so you can work inside or outside?
Yeah. Like if we had a garden space, you know, a couple hanging garden garden chairs out in the, in a green space or in woods.
I love that.
Like I, I'm thinking like, imagine being able to cultivate that kind of workspace for your people, for the culture. And luckily we all share that culture. I mean There could be somebody who comes in and they're a complete city person and does not speak to them. But for the group that's assembled, it's. It's pretty amazing. But anyway, I'm. I'm a little off topic.
No, you're not.
We can throw in some. The Jurassic park dinosaurs into the plants on the. On the ground. Yeah. Okay with that.
Went for a. Like a rooftop space, too.
Yes. I love those too. Those always intrigue me. White little string lights above. Yeah.
It's interesting. You know, when I'm home, sometimes when working home, if it's nice weather outside, I'll go on the outside deck.
Yeah.
Problem is the light can be so glaring that you need a setup, but you can do that where you have proper shading so you can work, but also just to get the. Sometimes the sun just beating on your back or something. Yeah.
Delicious.
Delicious.
Delicious. Absolutely delicious.
We can set up a hunting stand for Jeremy. So it will be in our space. Jeremy.
And we could run around and Jeremy could try and shoot us with his camera.
Gun.
Camera things. Gotcha. I actually.
I almost got seriously hurt a couple days ago, but.
How's that? What happened?
My dad has a. A crossbow, and it's. It's older. It's like a vintage one, and he hasn't used it in years. And it was in the garage, and he's like, you want. You want to buy it from me? And I was like, well, I don't know. Let me see. Like, because I like traditional bows. So I just put a dummy arrow in, and I was testing it out, went to shoot it, the. The string snapped and cut the dummy arrow and split it in two. And luckily, it wasn't a real arrow with a broadhead on it, because if it would have snapped wrong, it could have, like, shot back and got me in the eyes. Yeah. So I was, like, really lucky about that.
He charged you for it. He's like, oh, you ruined it. I'm sure.
But I didn't tell him because if I do, he'll be like, well, he broke it.
Really?
Or you used it. You know, one of them, like, come on.
You know what I also like to have the Paul Holland interview was this concept of hybrid work environment. Kind of. We're doing it now. So, Amy, you were here at the physical office this morning.
Yep.
But now you're working from home.
Yeah.
Jeremy's works remote 95% of the time. 99% of the time. I think it's. It is interesting, this hybrid, and I like how he delineated it. He goes, you have the head down work, which for some people working at home or in a place where it's quiet is best. Then you have the collaborative work. The only thing, and we kind of talked about, too, is can you really allocate time to collaborate? Or is collaborative a natural effect of being together? And it's spontaneous.
Yeah, that was. That's an interesting point. And I get pulled because, like, some mornings I know the tasks I have on my mind are like, I really could use to stay home sometimes. The quiet and helps me focus on. Especially I'm working with like a contract or something like that or an agreement or something. But then you miss. I'm sure, Jeremy, you know this. Like, you miss the. The camaraderie and the people and the conversations that get generated. I talk about this with my son in virtual schooling. He's missing so many peripheral cues from the classroom. When he's home. When he's home, you're missing conversations people are having with other people that give you just a little bit of information and just a little more context. And, you know, I learned things that you're discussing with Aaron or with Corday or something like that. I get more understanding about the business than when I'm home. And I'm. I'm not in on that stuff. So I think we. You do miss a lot when you're not physically together. There's a lot of cues that get. Get missed.
I mean, there's a. There's pluses and minuses, obviously, to. I think if it's one of those situations where we're doing a quarterly meeting, if we're trying to come up with ideas on the fly, it's hard because there's a lot of pressure, and it's like, everybody's there, and so you're like, oh, you're trying to rack your brain in the moment to think of these things. But, like, from me working from home, I'll, you know, turn on the TV while I'm cooking dinner, and then I'll be like, oh, and I'll just think of something randomly and I'll put the knife down and go and, like, write a little note down.
Yeah.
Yeah, like that.
Yeah.
There's.
There's an interesting phenomena that you pointed out, Jacob Loan, is that when we are immersed in an activity where we have such routine experience, like, for you, cooking. Not for me, for cooking is for me. We so deliberate.
Yeah. Focus. Yeah.
But you got to the point where I've seen you chop that knife, I'm like, oh, My God, I would lose my entire hand. But your mind then goes elsewhere and it. It stays on task, but at the same time allows their mind to wander.
Yeah, sort of dream state, right? Like.
Yeah, dream state. And I think that's where the best brainstorming comes, is doing routine stuff.
Yeah, I agree. I agree. That's interesting.
Yeah.
I think in a lot of ways, though, my brain and your brain are similar in that I'm constantly like. My brain's always going like a mile a minute and. Okay, I mean, like, in terms of like, you know, constantly just like random things will pop in my head and then I'm like, oh. And then I play that out and then moves on to something else. And then I play that out and it's just like. It's hard to explain, but it's almost like. It's like. Just like a motor. Almost like ADHD kind of.
Yeah, Yeah. I started using on the Apple. This has always been there, but it's a thing called reminders. That little icon, if you can see it next to my audible.
I've never used that app.
It's great. So just for. There's PFP for different categories. I just have all these lists.
So.
Family shopping, house projects, work ideas.
Wow. 13 house projects.
Yeah. Crazy.
Does it ding you, Mike? Does it alert you? Or is it there for you to refer to?
Collection. It's collection. And once it's done, I click it off. Okay, house project. I got to install a light. I got to replace some insulation, spackle the downstairs. It's just great because if I don't write these down, I'll forget them. And what I did is I had a project list in one spot now with this little thing, ideas. Like, I had some ideas I had discussed on a call today, and I was just well prepared because I collected them over the weekend when they kind of sprang up.
That's cool.
I gotta try that. It's a good one.
So anything else about Paul Holland that you learned? You guys want to share?
I thought it was interesting that he thinks we're going to absorb all that space, that. All that. All that corporate. Yeah, right.
He was pretty optimistic about it.
He was optimistic and more optimistic. Optimistic than I expected him to be. What did you think, Jeremy? Was that surprising to you? Because.
Yeah, it's fascinating. I mean that. I don't think I really even considered that or thought about that.
I kind of thought, no, I thought the answer was going to be like, now we don't see that. We don't. We see, you know, apartment Maybe filling. Filling those up with residential space or. Or something like that. But he sounded optimistic.
Yeah, we repurposed coworking spaces is getting bigger. I'm in one right now, so. Yeah, I think that's a viable option for people.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's what it is. Because he said we need to gather to get together in a place, not the office space. And that, to me, that points to co working.
Yeah.
Event spaces.
Yeah, I kind of like the. I like that it opens up interesting and maybe unique new space ideas.
Yeah, I think so too. Yeah, I think it will. All right, guys, I want to invite you to go to Solomon Coyle.com to check out what Paul Holland's got going on, and maybe you can see ways to repurpose your office space and go to a hybrid environment. I also want to remind you, please rate our podcast. Go to RateOurPodcast.com. we need you to do that. It's how we get the word out. Jaycob, you got a little gameage for us?
Yeah, it's begging. Please give us a radio.
God damn.
All right, so Paul is nicknamed the Rockfish. Don't know why. It was just in the notes.
It was.
I'm running with it. Okay, fish trivia, the connections that I can make here.
It works. It works.
Yeah.
So what is the healthiest fish in terms of nutrition? Is it tuna, Alaskan salmon, or halibut?
Just for the halibut, we had Atlantic cod yesterday. That was good.
Oh, my sister had cod last night too. It was good. How'd you serve it?
I fried it. I sauteed some butter, threw it on top, some paprika, little garlic, salt, salt, pepper. It was amazing.
Next time, I'll give you a beer batter recipe. Do fried cod like fish and chips?
Oh, I want that. Can you make it for me?
Yeah, we took a cookie for everybody. Next. Next retreat or something.
Oh, I love that.
But we have to catch the fish. That's a callback to a conversation Mike and I had. Amy, would you go fishing?
Would I go fishing?
Yeah.
Would somebody bait the hook?
Yeah, yeah.
Remind me.
Carry her on her shoulders because we're Navy seals, right?
Yeah.
That's a call back there.
Salmon is the most popular fish in the US Partly because of its orange color. The orange color is due to carotenoids. Carotenoids. Carotenoids. I forget. I don't have carotenoids.
I think.
Yeah, I think I was saying the German version. Carotenoid, which occur naturally in the salmon's diet. In the wild from krill and shrimp farm raised salmon is what color before chemicals are added to turn it orange. Is it?
No idea. Holy cow.
Yeah, this is, this is, this is a lesson in here. Light pink, grayish white or opaque blue.
I think I know that one. I knew they added color to it.
Yeah. And it's, it's really annoying because the color is almost 20 of the cost of the salmon.
They don't have to add color to it, but they do because the theory.
Well, if it's farm raised, they had color. So the theory, people, people won't buy it if they don't add the color.
Yeah. Isn't that crazy?
This is such news to me. Wow. You learn something new every day.
You look at wild caught salmon versus or salmon versus farm raised and look at the color difference. It's unbelievable what natural color looks like.
Right?
Yeah. I'll give you guys a salmon tip once we go. Go back to it. Question 3, what tuna contains the least amount of mercury? Is it yellowfin, skipjack or albacore?
I don't know the answer, but better be freaking yellowfin because that's what they serve at the sushi house next door.
Get your blood tested for mercury.
Okay.
My.
I think he just gave us our answer. Shoot.
Okay, what do we got?
All right.
The healthiest fish in terms of nutrition is.
Which fish?
Salmon.
Salmon.
Got it. Yep.
Yay.
Alaska salmon. So when I worked in food retail, there would be two options. There would be a fresh salmon and there would be frozen salmon. And everybody, if I was in the frozen section would come over and say, hey, I want that salmon, but I want the fresh. And I'm like, trust me, you want the frozen. Because everybody assumes that because it's fresh then that means it's going to be better. But the fresh was farm raised.
Ah.
Frozen, wild caught from Alaska. So in terms of that, it's way better to get frozen fruit.
And it's preserved on the boat. Right. They freeze it on the boat or.
Well, they, once they take it off the boat, they fillet it like right offshore and then freeze it.
Yeah. So it's preserved pretty fresh.
Yeah. Yeah. So always better to get wild caught, not farm raised.
Good to know.
But what's interesting, a three ounce serving. Serving three ounce serving of Salman is 85 grams, about is 155 calories and 20, almost 22 grams of protein, 6.9 grams of fat and contains selenium, niacin, vitamin B12 and vitamin B6 and a bunch of other vitamins.
That's a Superfood if ever I heard one.
Okay, question two. What color is the salmon before the carotenoids are added? Is it light pink, grayish white, or opaque blue?
I'm gonna go with. I said grayish white, but I'm leaning towards opaque blue now. Blue.
I put grayish white, I think. Pretty sure that's what it is.
It's grayish white.
My son used to work at the seafood department at Kings.
Ah, there you go.
Yeah.
Yeah. Well, they still get an orange, but they knew things. It was amazing how many worms are in fish where they call them, like, you know, they kind of go into the flesh like parasites.
Parasites. Parasites.
Unbelievable. How many parasites are in fish? So their job is to remove all the parasites. It's unbelievable. Yeah, it's not. I know, I know. I'm sorry. Like, ruining everything.
What are you, Kelsey?
Yeah, no, I feel like Kelsey ruins everything.
That's why we got her offer off the podcast. She ruined it so much.
No, she didn't.
All right, three. What tuna contains the least amount of mercury?
Better be yellowfin, bro. And I'm just.
But he already just said you have to go get a mercury test. It's gotta change my. I'm gonna change it to albacore.
It's skipjack.
Oh, we're both wrong.
Skipjack are tinier and they don't go as deep.
So therefore, Mike, you won this one too. Two out of three. Two out of three. Well done, sir. I got one. I just got the salmon.
Grocery store look for skipjack.
Okay.
I've never heard of Skywalker and Darth Vader fighting it out between me and you. It's just like, God, the intelligence and the strength and the anger and the insults.
Sorry.
All right, my friends, we hope you enjoy the episode. Hopefully you got three out of three on that Ultra. We would love your rating and reviews. Please go to RateOurPodcast.com. please email me any questions you have. Ask Mike McCallitz.com and hey, check out my newest book. It's on pre order right now. It's called Get Different. So go to Amazon.com and type in get different, because if you want your business to stand out, you need to get different. You know what I'm saying?
That's just saying.
Cool. All right, we out of here.
Wishing you good times.
Wishing you good times.
