Leslie Ehm discusses her book Swagger, exploring why people struggle to accept compliments and the layers of insecurity that block confidence. The hosts argue that real confidence comes from actual skill, not fake-it-till-you-make-it posturing, and that you need factual evidence of competence to build genuine swagger.
Foreign.
Is this me and you today? Actually, this is not me and you. It's me and you in the construction company.
Is that what that's.
I don't know if you can hear the back.
I'm so glad I'm not there right now.
I just. I just finished a keynote for the bni. The. The very famous organization where you refer business to each other. 70,000 members, right? 70,000 members. There's a virtual presentation. It's going great. And all of a sudden you're. It isn't just a chainsaw. They're chainsawing concrete outside. It's like, are you kidding me?
And then those stages. She was really good. Really good.
I agree. When she shared her own. I think it was other things. It was. It was her inability or struggle in taking compliments. And I was like, oh, that's so fascinating. When. And then she kind of walked through. She said, well, when someone compliments me first, like they don't mean that. And they're placating and. And I hate myself. It was interesting as she shared her inner dialogue. How quickly it can devolve.
Yeah.
Into this kind of horrible self loathing. Almost. And I'm getting her out of those. Each level as she's kind of sunk down, I say, no, no, come on, get real here.
Right, right. And. And. And you have to like conquer all of those with facts. And the facts say real kind. The real kind. That's it. That's it. Not just the exercise, kickboxing. She's a real boxer. Okay, so ready?
Yes.
In addition to being known as the greatest, Muhammad Ali had a nickname before he even became an accomplished boxer. What was that nickname? Was it One punch, Cassius Clay do or the Louisville Lip? Okay, ready? Jack Dempsey once set a record for knocking down an opponent seven times in one round. Which boxer tied this record in 1959? Thomas Hearns? Manny Pacquiao? Ingamar Johansson. Not Ingamar Johansson is the third choice.
So it's funny, I was hoping you're gonna say George Foreman. I guess he wasn't alive back. Maybe he's alive, but he wasn't boxing.
He wasn't boxing back then. Yeah.
If you said George Foreman, even though he black boxed like in the 90s, I'd be. Yeah, George.
That's it. That's it. That's that.
His girls are amazing.
They really are. Yeah. Okay, last one. What was boxing? Great. Sugar Ray Robinson's born name. Graham Hill, Angel Guerrero or Walker Smith Jr.
Okay.
All right, Mr. Faking It Till you make it. I Know, I like that the whole, you know, be competent. Just be competent. And then. So what? I wrote it down somewhere. It was so good. Confidence can only come with competence instead of making it do the work. I loved that.
I thought that was good, that term, fake it. So you make it frustrates me too, because the second we say fake it, we're also acknowledging that we are fakes.
Yes. And. And who wants to do business with the dis. Genuine.
Yeah. And we want to be disingenuous.
Exactly. True.
On this piece of paper, I'm looking down because I drew it out on my little notes here it's kind of blurred out, but there you can see kind of a universe looking.
Yes. Piece.
And I consider like an omelet or some kind of egg in that. In the center was the true self. Right. And that's the yoke that we're trying to protect. And there's multiple protection mechanisms around itself or shells, but insecurity, ambition, pain, fear, all these things. What I thought was fascinating is to identify our true selves, we have to pierce out and then pierce back in. It's a, it goes out and back in. It isn't just you get to the other side. Okay, I'm clear.
Right.
It has to be.
You have to come back in and do the, and do the work at each of those, those levels. Because like the one I love, what she said was the layer of insecurity. That's where all the what ifs, what if I fail and there are no answers and insecurity. And I love when she said that because I'm like, that's great. Because that's where, you know, you, you got to move. You can't stay there. You got to, you've got to take the next bold step and, and get through the next thing. And yes, the next layer is another layer of. Well, so what the next one was was fear. And then there's pain. But you know, you're moving forward and you're getting that competence because you're doing what you need to do. You're, you're, you're doing the work in each. In all of those stages. She was really good. Really.
I agree. When she shared her own. I think it was at the very end of the interview, she started sharing her own fear or challenge. Right. She had to go through all these things. It was, it was her inability or struggle in taking compliments. And I was like, oh, that's so fascinating. When. And then she kind of walked through. She said, well, when someone compliments me at First I'm like, they don't mean that. And they're placating and they're. And. And I hate myself. It was interesting as she shared her inner dialogue, how quickly it can devolve.
Yeah.
Into this kind of horrible self loathing almost. And I don't know if it's that extreme, but you can see it goes. And she had to be very deliberate about elevating her out of those. Each level as she's kind of sunk down and say, no, no, come on, get real here.
Right, right. And. And. And you have to like, conquer all of those with facts. And the facts say differently, the facts show. Prove otherwise. And you just have to like, reconfront yourself with what the real facts are of any situation. It's really smart.
Yeah. So I want to invite every listener in to go get Swagger. Do it right now. The book is releasing on May 10, so if you're listening on May 10 or you're listening after, it doesn't make a difference. The book is now available. I want to invite you to get it against Swagger. Unleash everything you are and become everything you want. By Leslie M. Hope you enjoy the interview. Jeremy's out sick today, but he left.
Us with trivia for me.
Or free of games.
No, no, you have. You have all of two minutes of a game.
Okay. So this is me by myself.
It's got to be you by yourself, because I have the answers. Right. Yeah. Let's see how you do, mister. So he picks. He picked the topic of boxing trivia.
Boxing.
I believe that Leslie is a kickboxer. Or she was real box here.
Yeah, she's a real boxer. It's funny, she says, what kind of hobbies you like? She said boxing. The real kind.
The real kind. That's it. That's it. Not just the exercise. Kickboxing. She's a real boxer. Okay, so ready?
Yes.
In addition to being known as the greatest, Muhammad Ali had a nickname before he even became an accomplished boxer. What was that nickname? Was it.
