Influencer Marketing, Podcasting Strategy, and Brand Driving Demand with Jess Cook (VP Marketing at Vector)

Hey, it's Dave.

Today's episode is brought to you by our friends at Optimizely. Optimizely is the AI platform built for modern marketing teams, helping you create content, run experiments, personalize experiences, and optimize your website, all powered by Agentic AI. I want to be the person on my team who actually knows how to build with AI, not just talk about it, not just use Claude to ask silly questions, but I want real output, something I can point to and say, I built that and it saved my team hours every week. If you wanna be that person, check out this resource. The team at Optimizely is super smart in this area. They've developed a new AI marketing certification called Opal U. It's a 5-day live course designed for senior marketing leaders who are ready to ship more with AI. This is a structured hands-on program with just 1 hour a day for 5 days where you'll build 3 real AI agents that saves 10 hours a week. Plus you're gonna learn 5 prompt engineering techniques that actually produce usable output. How to feed your agents the right context so they write and think like you, how to connect them to real data sources so they're pulling from what actually matters to your business. And you'll do all of this alongside 50 other senior marketing leaders just like you dealing with the same challenges. And at the end, you'll present what you built, get feedback, see what others created, and leave with 10 new ideas for what to build next.

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Opal U kicks off every Monday. You can apply right now. Optimizely.com/exit5. Hey, it's Dave. I want to give a shout out to the team at Vector for sponsoring this episode. Vector is a contact-level ads platform. Look, you probably have anonymous buyers lurking in your funnel, people that you can't identify or follow up with, people you can't target with any real precision. So you end up throwing ads at job titles and hoping that the right person sees them. Vector fixes that. Instead of targeting job titles and crossing your fingers, Vector lets you build audiences from actual people, the ones on your site clicking your ads and checking out your competitors. And they just launched their MCP server that lets you connect AI like Claude and ChatGPT directly to their platform. It connects to your LinkedIn ads and site visitor data. So instead of clicking through dashboards, you just ask your AI a question and get an answer. Which ad creatives are fatiguing right now? Which companies are engaging but not converting? Which actually driving pipeline right now?

What new ideas we be running?

This is an amazing way to use AI and Vector together. It turns your data into something you can use in the moment. Head to vector.co to learn more.

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And if they ask you how you heard about them, tell them Exit Five, please.

See ya. You're listening to the Dave Gerhardt Show. Exit.

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Hey, it's Dave Gerhardt. Jess Cook is one of the speakers that you're going to hear from at DRIVE 2026, where she'll be leading a session called Baby Got Brand: The New Early Stage Marketing Playbook. I love that.

So we're running back a conversation that I had with Jess earlier in this year, January, I think it was. She's VP of marketing at Vector, where she once spent $12,000 on 7 micro-influencers and generated $1 million in pipeline as a marketing team of 2.

She talked about that.

We get into how she ran that influencer campaign, the whole influencer program that they run at Vector, why she stayed hands-off with the creators, how she tracked results without a demand gen background, and what it takes to grow from a content leader to a VP of marketing. If you're an early-stage marketer trying to figure out how to do a lot with a little, this one is worth your time. Enjoy my conversation from earlier in the year with Jess Cook.

Jess, tell me, what is Vector?

That is a great question. First, I have to say, this is— I'm realizing a year's long dream right here. I need you to know that, like, that being on your show.

All right, go ahead. I'll listen. I'll take it. I'll take it.

I've been listening for years. It's been like a legit— like, if I had a— I don't do vision boards, but if I had a vision board, it'd be like the DG Show. Got to be on there someday.

Oh, man, that's so cool.

Making dreams come true.

God, that feels good. Ah, take that in. Take that, dopamine. Let's go. That natural— give me some of that natural dopamine. Holy cow. Wow. Thank you, Jess. All right. And, um, that's the end of this episode. If you want more, if you want more. But okay, so as a listener though, don't you agree? Like, I want to hear the stuff I want to listen to is like, I want to hear what people are doing. And I used to— I missed, I missed that type of podcast. And I think I got away— like, you know, too many— like, I don't care where you went to college or if you went to college or whatever. Let's talk about what you're doing.

Yeah, I totally agree. I think some of my favorite episodes of your show have just been like, I would be like on a walk and I'd get my phone out and I'd be like taking notes and I'd like write the person's name down. So I'm like, I have to go follow this person immediately after this is over so I can continue to learn from them. Um, so yeah, totally agree. I'm excited.

So that's the bar. That's the bar then. Like, I think what's cool about podcasting, we'll talk about this too, you can attract a wide range of listeners for, so like you, we might, I want to cover like specific topics like, you know, AI and SEO or Product marketing or whatever. CMOs all the way down from, from CMO to intern, that same advice, they're going to be listening to the same thing. It's like you're going to— you're, you're a VP of marketing, you'll be walking around, you'll be like, oh, I heard this episode about like SEO, like are we doing that? I wonder. And like, that's the show that I want to have.

So I love it.

Okay, so Vector, some type of SaaS tool, you have a ghost mascot, Series A-ish, uh, what, what else? Tell me, how do I—

yeah, yeah. So Vector lets you build ad audiences from the people who visit your website who click your ads but don't convert, and who are researching your competitors or relevant topics by name. So like you can actually see the list of people by name and title who are going to be in your ad audiences before you spend a dime and push them over to all the platforms that you are already spending your money on, which is really exciting. We are pre-Series A, I don't know, it's seed round at the moment.

Yeah, whatever. Just like how many people, like roughly what stage in—

20-ish people total, 2 in marketing. Okay.

Yeah. Early stage startup.

Real early. And, uh, I got in here because of our boy Dan Murphy, um, who put my name forth when my CEO Josh was looking for somebody to lead marketing. So shout out to Dan.

How did he know you?

You know what's funny? I don't know. LinkedIn. We had never actually formally met.

I'm sure he's trying to get the referral bonus. He's just sending in, he's just looking at like first-degree connections. Yeah.

Well, Josh was looking specifically for someone with a content and brand background.

Okay.

Which is interesting, an interesting choice for a marketing leader right now. I, well, no, I think it's a great choice for a marketing leader right now. I think it goes against a lot of conventional wisdom and kind of tradition as like, who should your marketing leader be? So, uh, I was really lucky that whatever I did in the community or on LinkedIn, uh, got me noticed and, and Dan put my name forward, which was amazing.

That is awesome. I mean, yeah, that's the goal. The hardest part is I get a lot of messages— I know Dan does too— about like, hey, do you know a person for this? And it's like, ah, it's hard, you know. You think we would, we got this community of all these people. I think one of the hardest things is I think it's very hard to recommend someone that you haven't worked with directly. I really don't know. I'm like, yeah, I don't know, does she— she seems really smart, she's cool to hang out with, but you just don't know.

Yeah, totally.

Anyway, it looks like you're doing awesome. Um, you guys are doing cool stuff. A lot of people, you know, I just want to, I want you to know that like, this is more than B2B SaaS, Jess Cook. I don't know if you've heard. Okay. I have, I have a bigger heart than that. And so I'm going to, I'm just trying to explain the story. Like I like when you listeners have full context of like the type of company you're at, what you're doing, and then you can, you know, your marketing knowledge is your marketing tactics are applied through that lens. So Jess is VP of marketing, early stage startup in the marketing and sales. Tech space. Her background came up through content and brand. Okay, cool. So one thing, we have 4 topics here that you're— of stuff that you're doing in marketing at Vector that is working right now. And I want to spend like a couple minutes hitting on each one and, and let's leave people walking away with, you know, some, some insight here. Okay, so topic number 1 is, uh, influencer marketing in, in B2B. You spent— so you had this idea, we're gonna do influencer marketing, let's talk about that.

Why did you do it?

And then you spent $12 grand on 7 micro-influencers and you generated $1 million in pipeline. Let's dive into that. This is something everyone's asking about. They're seeing content on LinkedIn, they're seeing influencer in B2B. How did this come up at Vector and how'd you execute on it?

Yeah, this was something I'd wanted to try, uh, very early on and, you know, took me a couple months to kind of like ramp up and then get a budget sold in, and then part of that budget was like, we're gonna test out some influencers. And so I landed on $12,000 simply because I'm not great at math. I had to like literally use calculator to figure all this out. But, you know, that basically got me like 80—

I'm good at math now. I've got ChatGPT. I'm good at math now.

Right.

We're all good at math now.

Wait, before you get into the campaign, just let's go back and like, why did you want to, why did you want to do this? So, hey, you're leading marketing, you're trying to accomplish some goal, like, We could do anything—

direct mail, influencers, events, trade shows, whatever.

I wanna know specifically, like, how did you pick this channel? What was the goal, reason behind it? And then let's talk about how you went and did it.

Yeah. Great, great, great. Uh, great place to start. So I don't have a demand gen marketer and I don't have a background in demand gen. And so I'm not about to jump in and like start running ads willy-nilly because I will just be throwing money out the window. Um, trying to build ad audiences, all of that. But we needed greater distribution. I post on LinkedIn, our founders post on LinkedIn. We have a couple of employees who are really good at posting on LinkedIn, but like that wasn't gonna be enough. And short of running ads, I needed another way to like get into people's brains and eyeballs and hearts and minds. So influencers felt right because it was one, a really easy way to just like increase distribution in a really trustworthy way. And two, one thing I do know how to do is like go in and like turn those right into thought leadership ads. So that felt like a pretty, uh, big win. Um, so that was the main reason. I was like, we just need more people to kind of know who we are from a trusted source. And influencers feel like the right way to go about that. Our audience is marketers and like we eat that stuff up, right? Like we, I love when I see somebody I know, whether it's paid or not, like recommending something. So that was kind of the impetus.

And thought— I think that this is a big slept-on thing. I was on the phone with a guy yesterday who's asking for advice interviewing for a new job. It kind of is crazy, like thought leadership ads. It's like on one side, it's like, it's a bummer from an organic standpoint because like you don't get to reach all your followers. But from a company standpoint, if you're spending money on LinkedIn, I mean, the thought leader ad is, is insane.

Yeah.

Now you can take those 12 influencers and it's not just like one-off posts. Those are literally become like UGC ads for your brand, which is really cool.

Exactly.

So you can justify the cost other than like, we, we need these 12— actually, what was the offer? What, what, what, what did they post? What did you have them all post? And what were the mechanics of that?

So we did a 3-month pilot, and I lined each month with either a launch, like a product that we had launching or that we wanted to promote. And then one of the month, one of the 3 months, we had done a survey, and I, I gave them like all the results basically and had them like post about the results and the implications of it. So each month was kind of aligned to that, and we had— we ended up kind of doing a mix of like customers and non-customer influencers. These are not— they were not people with like huge followings. Like average was like 12,000 or 13,000 followers, which is incredible, um, super respectable.

If you have any— if you have— if you only have 10,000 followers, we are not offending you right now.

If you're not—

I don't know if you know, I 190,000 followers, so that is nothing to a guy like me.

So pennies. Yeah. Um, no, so we're—

I mean, yeah, that's good.

So much trust, I think, built into those like kind of audiences of that size, right?

Well, also, hold on, this is what's crazy about B2B, and you don't need hundreds— you're not doing this to generate hundreds of thousands of impressions or leads or whatever, right?

Like Right.

You could get— I don't know how much Vector costs, but like, whatever, let's just, you know, make some simple math. I mean, we have like sponsors that we work with, for example, where if they get like one customer from doing a sponsorship deal with us, the math is amazing. And so it's the same thing. It's like, we don't, we don't need hundreds of leads from this. It's like, can we get a couple, you know, can we get a couple hand raisers?

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And that was kind of the goal. And, and, um, the other thing I, I decided against doing with this was any kind of tracking. Like I didn't give any of the influencers any UTMs. I just wanted to try it. I didn't want to, I didn't want to wait. I didn't want to like set up this whole system in the backend to try and—

over, over that demand gen person's dead body, would they have let you done that without no UTMs?

I know.

I just delete them out. Delete.

Yeah.

Bye-bye.

They're so messy. But yeah, I just, I just wanted to like directionally, is this going to work for us? We'll be able to see if it's working.

But like, that's a fun— you're at a fun stage, right? Like, you're, you're like, you don't need to obsess over the measurement of this because like you're at an early stage where like you will know if this worked.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Did I come into the office next, you know, the next— did I show up at the bakery the next day and there was like 3 people in line and there's never been anyone in line?

Like, whoa. Yeah, okay, 100%. And, and we could feel it. Like, you're, you're totally right. We're at a stage where like we do a program like that and we feel it.

Yeah.

At the end of the program, I went back and looked, uh, the, the only real tracking I did was I went into our call recording software and I set up some alerts. So I set up like the names of all the influencers. Um, I set up one for LinkedIn, which I know like they could have seen somebody else's LinkedIn post or whatever, but you know, and then, um, I set up one for just like influencer and yeah, so I could kind of see that. And then we have a, how did you hear about us? Field. Wow, field on our form. So, uh, I look back at the end of the 3 months and we ended up having—

what do you use for the call recording, by the way?

Fathom.

Fathom, cool. And is that, is that, is that pretty accurate? Like if you, if you typed in like Dave Gerhardt, it would, it would be pretty good about mentions?

Yes, yeah, absolutely.

And do you have to count them or like will it give you the count of the mentions?

Or give me the count of mentions. Um, and I get alerts in my email too, like every day there's like a digest of how many times something was mentioned.

Could you, could you say like over the last 30 days, how much has this been mentioned more? And you can do that in Fathom?

Yeah. It has like a little AI chat thing built into it. So yeah, you could ask something like that. Nice. Um, and it would be able to get that back to you.

I mean, that's an amazing way to do, to do this, right? It's like if we can now track, if you have a company where you have sales, so, so the, in your case, like you have to talk to a sales rep. Yeah.

Yep.

So you can then mine every call to understand like, hey, and just ask, how did you hear about us? Oh, it must have been LinkedIn.

Exactly. So yeah, I look back and we had, um, over 3 months, 45 demos that we could track back to this program, over 80% of which were ICP, which is pretty incredible. And that represents $1.1 million in pipeline. So yeah, like this is like, okay, we, well, I, I think the thing that gets hard then is like a lot of marketing leaders, a lot of CEOs would see that and be like, how do I pour a million dollars into that? And there's diminishing returns at some point, uh, and just like bandwidth issues, right? Like, I was the one to run that program.

Yeah, no, it's all good. This is great. This is fun. I don't—

I will—

we can't— everybody's marketing is different. Like, we, we can't say— we, we're— I just want to talk to you about what you're doing and how it's working and what we learned, because even Even just that little nugget, someone's like, oh really, you could do that in Fathom? Like, that's, that's a nugget. That's, that's a valuable thing, right? So on the 45 demos thing, none of your offers were even like, go start a free trial of Vectr today. Didn't— wasn't it all like content? So there was no direct like book a demo. That means these people saw the ads, checked out your stuff, thought Vectr was interesting, then went to book a demo. You weren't running like book a demo ads with the influencers, right?

There was no call to action. It was really just like, hey, here's this new product, Hey, here's this survey data. Hey, here's this thing you can do.

And so that, so that survey data was like, how would someone get, how would someone get it? What do you think the path was for someone to get it? To tell me your best guess at how you think those 45 demos like happened.

Yeah, I think a lot of it was, hey, I trust this person. This is really interesting. Let me go Google Vector. Okay. Let me go to Vector. Let me kind of look around. Oh yeah, this is cool. I can build ad audiences with people that are actually named. Amazing. Let me actually see like what I can do with this. Um, and I—

did their ad copy say like, check out Vector, or was like, here's some cool data from Vector?

It was a mix of both. Like, I, I was pretty like hands-off with these content creators because one, they know their audience best. Like, I don't want them to— I don't want them creating content they don't actually think people are going to resonate with. The— I asked for like, could I see your post 24 hours ahead of time? Just because I want to make sure like how you talk about Vector is right. But besides that, like it was kind of like, do what you think is right. Here's if you want to throw a link in the comments, here's like the page I would link to about this. But for the most part, it was really, it was really up to them, like how they wanted to talk about the content and the product that they were kind of handed. I did really loose briefs. Like it was just like, yeah, here's some messaging points. Here's— I gave them all like, um, a very loose time frame because I've been on the other side of this where like I've been paid by other companies to post something and they're like, we need you to post on this day. It's like, well, I already have plans for that day.

I know, right? Or I've done like— happens to me all the time. I'm like, very randomly I'll have something scheduled, usually I do it on my calendar, and I'm like, oh shit, I double posted. I'm like, why is the engagement on this one so off? Yeah, on that, by the way, I have an interesting perspective on this because we do, you know, this is like what our sponsorship business is. It's been a part of our sponsorship business at ExitFive, right? We, we're essentially like an influencer type of company. It comes through like our newsletter and podcast ads or whatever. But in your example of like you were hands-off and letting them write the thing, I've seen a dramatic difference for— I think 2 years ago I didn't have the same confidence that I have now. And I don't—

I—

why have—

we have the results from like working with sponsors, right? Yeah, I think before I would be like, oh, you know, whatever, this company, this is the ad they want to run. Like, okay, cool. Like, this is the ad. And now I'm like, I know, no, actually I can do a better job. Like, I know this audience so well. Like, let me write— hey guys, can I write the ad for you in the newsletter? And they're like, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, no, I should tell them that. And so now we will get a brief, but we will write the ad in our tone, in our voice, in our way. And it works so much better. And it's like, oh, this is the lesson for influencers. And it's like It's this weird thing where like the more we wanna control it and like we get these messages, I get them all the time from like HubSpot as an example.

Yep.

They're like, hey, can you post, here's the UTM, like post this on this date. And I'm like, I understand they're trying to do like the broad, like the big play like that, but there just feels like that if you can really do it this way, it, it, it's better. How did you find these 12? Because this is what comes up all the time. Is there some magic database that you found to get these people?

Like, yeah, there are a few tools out there. There's, um, Hivesight is one that's kind of cool where you can actually go in and like HiveSight.

HiveSight. How did you get your 12 though?

I kind of knew all of them. So, 4 of them were customers. And so, that felt really important to have like people who are actually in the product using it day to day and have seen business results can actually talk about this for us. And then, the remainder were just, I guess, like Kailey Edmondson, Brittany Blanken, right? Like people who are, demand gen marketers that have so much trust built up in their communities, um, and their audiences.

So you, you knew, you knew these people, right? And, and then are there— there's probably industries— let me ask this as a question— do you think there are industries where you can't know who the people are, and so therefore you need like a database or something like that?

Absolutely. I think it was easy for me because I'm a marketer marketing to marketers. And, you know, my whole kind of sphere of people are marketers. And so it was very simple for me to be like, yeah, these are the people I really want on this, in this pilot. I think it would have been a lot harder, like at my previous role at Island, which is, you know, enterprise browser and where they were selling to like IT and, you know, information security. Like, I would have been like, I don't even know where to start. So there are tools out there that will help you kind of understand like who has influence with the people that you really want to reach.

Could you have gone to someone at Island? Like, was there that customer internally and could you have asked like, hey, who do you follow?

Totally. Yeah, exactly. That's another great way is like, who's, who's like your internal SME? Who's kind of the one with their ear to the ground? Can you talk to them about like, where would our, where would our audience actually be like listening and getting their information from?

Okay, so you did this. Let's, we'll move on from this section in a minute, but you, you did this influencer campaign. Seems like it was effective. I understand how you did it. Any, any parting thoughts before we, we move on to this, like, next part?

Things I want to try moving forward are kind of like hybrid, uh, sponsorship or partnership plus influencer. So, uh, think like we sponsored the Notorious B2B podcast, um, and, and Tass and Tim— Tass Bober and Tim Davidson, who host that show Part of that sponsorship was that they posted.

I never heard of them.

For us. Yeah, they're, you know, little-known folks. Um, it's the fruit—

that's the fruit guy, I think.

It's the fruit guy and the landing page lady. Yeah.

No, I'm not— I've never heard of her. I'm not familiar.

Uh-huh. Right. So that, that's something cool I want to look into. I think video, I think a little bit more.

What about like scaling this, right? Because Josh, like your CEO Josh, like you tell him like, hey, this drove 45 demos. Like, wouldn't the reaction be Cool. Let's do it again.

Yeah.

Let's get 45 more.

Yeah.

Why don't you just do it again?

Yeah, absolutely. Just kind of continue to do it. I think grow that pool. I think I, at this point, like now I would need to build a couple systems and some documentation to like really streamline it and help me scale it.

Why don't you just get like those 12 and just have them on like a retainer for like the whole year?

Yeah. That's the, that's the point is like the long-term partnerships and the long-term relationships really do well.

I think so too. I think, I think in, especially in B2B, I think if you're selling consumer, it's like I could do one post and sell a bunch of, you know, razors or whatever.

Yeah.

In B2B, just because of how people buy, they're like, your influencer stuff might be awesome, but someone just might not be ready to buy that right now.

Yeah.

And so even, you know, back to like what we're, what we're doing, right? We've shifted from like when I first started doing this, we would do like, you know, a week-long campaign with, with someone wanted to sponsor, they wanted to get like a sponsored post from me and a, and we put 'em in the newsletter and that would be like a one-off, like à la carte thing. And now it's like, no, what really works is like 3 to 6 months of like hearing Webflow, AirOps, whatever on the podcast over and over and over, plus seeing it in the newsletter. Then the deals come in and that's what you want. We want people to look at it in like over 6 months, you know, did you get incremental lift from doing this? B2B is not gonna be like, We sent a newsletter and like 40 people bought Vector today. It just doesn't work like that.

We're done now. Yeah. Well, even like, um, on the flip side, like I've been posting, doing sponsored posts for SEMrush for 2 years. They understand that too. Like I think the, the brands that are doing it right are like creating these long-term partnerships with, with—

Oh, like you're an influencer for them? Is that a recurring thing?

Yeah.

How does it work? Is it like a monthly, a per month thing?

It's, yeah, I would say probably 10, 8 to 10 times a year they'll reach out and say, hey, we have this new campaign. Like, here's kind of what we're talking about.

So just copy that for Vector. That makes a ton of sense. Like, yeah, nice. That's a, that's a great idea.

Okay, cool.

Uh, influencers done.

Cool.

Good.

Good on you. Keep doing it or do it until it stops working. Let's talk about podcasting. So, uh, you host a podcast at Vector. The podcast is called This Meeting Could Have Been a Podcast. And it is between you, the head of marketing, VP of marketing, and the CEO. How did this thing come to be? Why do you do it?

Is it valuable?

Must be. We're talking about it in this— we're talking about it as a marketing tactic. Let's— I could spend an hour talking about the value of podcasting. So let me hear it.

This is like—

how's it going?

One of my favorite topics. So it's going great. We're in season 2. We have plans for season 3 and 4. So obviously it's doing something for us. We really started doing this because We wanted some sort of like, you know, there, there's lead magnets, right? We wanted an awareness magnet. We wanted something that was going to bring people to us continuously. That would always be kind of this big top of funnel. Like you always know you're gonna get value out of it. And through that, you're going to learn about us. And through learning about us, you're going to learn about Vector. And at the same time, we did not want the show to be about the product. We just wanted to like take building in public to the extreme. So we came up with this idea of This Meeting Could Have Been a Podcast. We kind of decided like it was going to be our one-on-ones. Uh, it was essentially going to be like you're sitting down in our one-on-ones. Each episode covers like one decision we had to make together. So it's like, Jess wants to start running ads. Josh went to a conference and has a bunch of crazy ideas. Jazz wants to start a podcast, right? So, like, each one kind of has a vein that we explore. And I think people like it because there are things you always wanna say to your CEO that you can't, right? Because you just don't have that relationship. And Josh and I have that relationship. And so, I think, like, I can say the things or ask the questions, and I can get a real answer back to the things that, like, most people can't actually ask. And It's done really well for us. We, this season is even more successful than, than last season. We have about double the downloads we did pretty consistently month over month. And, uh, it's a lot of fun.

I love the, I love the whole idea. The concept of it is great. It seems like you do have the right chemistry for it.

Yeah.

Which matters. You know, I think that's the kind of secret sauce of it, right?

Yeah, totally. Uh, I think people know that like they're gonna learn something. But they're also going to be entertained. We have a couple like weird moments where like we do really awkward positive affirmations and we stare directly into the camera. So it, it's fun. I think one big piece of it being so successful is that we record on set. So we actually do this together. Like I, he lives in Florida, I live in Michigan. I fly down to Florida every few months and we over 2 days record an entire season. So I bring like 8 changes of clothes and we have like all the scripts written up and we kind of know exactly like what order we're going to do them in. And we do, you know, the silly photos where you have to like, like the YouTube thumbnail.

Do you have to do a lot of prep for that or is it like topic driven and you're kind of riffing? A ton of prep.

Ton of prep just to make sure that like we get the outline right. We don't do any real scripting besides the show opener. The show opener is kind of like a little skit. Besides that, it's all just kind of off the top of our head based on our outline. But we, we have very specific points we want to like make sure we hit and very specific stories we want to make sure we tell, you know, moments from like, oh, you know, hey, remember when we were at Drive— Exit 5 Drive and, uh, the boat mix-up and we had to like go figure all that out and it worked out, right? So like We, we will sit down and like try to really get solid outlines written, and that is what takes the most work.

Nice.

That's awesome. I, I feel like the, I mean, the in-person thing makes a ton of difference. And then I also feel like because you're batching them, your banter is already like, you're like warmed up a little bit, you know?

Yeah, it is. And it, it, if you can feel that in the episodes, like it just feels like one big conversation, which is which is awesome.

Do you ever have a day where you're not really feeling up for it and you just got to do it anyway?

There was one episode where I was— we were gonna— I think it was like, you know, one of the last episodes we were going to record on day 1 of the 2-day shoot. And I was like, I don't know, I'm not feeling this one. Can we just like move this to the first slot tomorrow? And let's take that first one we were going to do tomorrow morning and move it to now. And like, I think I'll be in a better like headspace to do it. And it worked out great. But that's really like I get so excited.

Have you ever been like mad at him and you have to do the podcast?

No, no, we, I don't, we don't get mad at each other. I can tell him if he's being crazy and he can tell me if I'm being crazy and we're like, I mean, it's not normal.

You're allowed to be frustrated at your, with your boss, you know, whoever your boss is, is like, can be kind of annoying sometimes.

Yeah. I don't know. We get along great. Like I had someone ask me yesterday, do you, have you guys known each other like a really long time? And I was like, this time last year I did not know him. Yeah.

That's great. Yeah. That's if you can find that. That is the recipe. I mean, I think there's a lot of people who can do the job. Like, I think, yeah, like, I think that somebody else probably could. This is not a reflection on you. It's like, I think somebody else could probably be doing an effective job at marketing for Vector, right?

Totally.

But when you have— it really is, I think the thing I'm learning too, Jess, is like, everyone always is like, it's all about the people, it's all about the— but it really, the business stuff is so easy. Almost all of the frustra— all of the problems I have in a week are people problems.

Yes. Yeah, I mean, this is my 5th job in 6 years, and it's, it's simply because, like, I would go somewhere and I would be okay, like, kind of doing my work, but, like, I didn't feel that— I don't— I never felt what I feel here, right? Where I'm like, man, people really want to know my opinion and they really care about it, and, like, Yeah, it just, it's different here. And I think if I had advice for people who are like, especially as a content person where it's like really hard to quickly show how your work is having impact, like it's so long-term, it's really difficult. It's like there is, there is a leader out there for you, whether you're like, you are gonna report to a CEO or you're gonna report to VP of marketing, or you're gonna report to like a manager of some kind. Like there is a leader. Out there for you who you are going to be able to jive with and get along with and grow with, like, keep searching if you haven't found them yet.

Okay, because it just takes all the bullshit out and then you two are on the same page and you can actually have productive and creative discussions instead of constantly worrying about hurting feelings or saying something, or I don't know.

Yeah, how do I deliver this to them so that they like it? Yeah, it's like Yeah, cuts all that out for sure.

I tried this week, I tried just being super direct all week and it's really working.

What are you not normally like that?

I can be direct, but I think I'm like, I think right now it's more like I'm just saying, like, if I'm saying exactly why I don't like something and saying exactly what to do next instead of just being, yeah, like I think before I'd be like, okay, sounds good. And I'm like, ah, I kind of don't really like, especially because a lot of people, a lot of our team is new. And so I feel like the more I just need to like say more things out loud and it's, it's like intentionally trying to shape the team and the culture. I feel like if I don't, so, so I'm trying to be more direct and I, it's, it's hard.

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Hey, it's Dave.

Look, I want to tell you about DRIVE 2026. This is our annual event we do for the ExitFive community. It's a 2-day B2B marketing conference in Stowe, Vermont. We built it for marketers who want to get smarter and actually connect with their peers. This isn't a generic industry conference. It's a small, intentionally designed event where the programming, the venue, and the schedule all work together to create the conditions for real conversations. Attendees spend 2 days getting into the tactical details of B2B marketing, what's working, what's not, and how the best teams are thinking about the problems that actually matter. This is all about workshops, sessions, and discussions that are built around participation, not passive listening. I want you to actually come and be there. If you're gonna take the time to leave your family, leave the office, get outside of work, like actually Be here, take notes, pay attention. It makes it all worth it. And here's the thing though, the B2B marketing stuff, that's what's going to get you to justify the ROI on your ticket.

That's why you're going to be able to tell your boss that you want to go to this, but the best moments at DRIVE don't happen on stage.

They happen at breakfast, on an afternoon hike, over a drink, after dinner, right? Somebody's going to be roasting marshmallows at this place. It's that type of event. We designed this for, um, for this connection. This is on purpose. Long breaks, unhurried meals, and opt-in activities where people spend time together outside the session room because look, We're all people. Where else in your life can you talk to someone else who understands your job as a B2B marketer? I go to my kids' swim lessons. I can't sit there and talk to the dad next to me about B2B marketing, but you can through the ExitFive community. And that's what DRIVE is all about. It's September 8th through 10th, 2026 at the lodge. It's Bruce Peak in Stowe, Vermont. Check it out, exitfive.com/drive to learn more about it. It's exitfive.com/drive and I hope to see you there.

It is. I didn't always feel like this, but feedback is a gift. Like, if you can take, if you can internalize it the right way.

I know it's really hard though. I still don't love it and I, it feels uncomfortable and everyone's like, it's a gift. It's a, it's a gift until it happens to you. Let me just sit there and give you 10 minutes of feedback. You know, it's like, I get a lot of feedback and I don't want any more of it. Like, I'm good. It doesn't feel that good. But anyone who goes on a podcast is like, feedback, feedback is— I understand, I understand the concept, but it doesn't— we're still humans and it's challenging. And then I think sometimes you need to just say like, no, like the words N-O, like no.

Yeah.

And it needs to—

it's a full sentence.

Fuck, Leah says that to me all the time. She's like, say, just say no. It's a full sentence. We say no, no is a full sentence. But there's something that's weird about it. If someone emails me and they're like, hey, can I have a— can I pick your brain tomorrow? If I just wrote back no, No, that would be an asshole move, right? So I don't— I just— so then what do I do?

I just ignore it.

Then I ignore the message, but then I'm also an asshole anyway in a work context. Yeah, like, it's okay. Like, look, nope, we're not doing that. Okay, done.

Yeah, totally.

Like, it's a little bit like parenting sometimes. Management and parenting. I'm not saying that teammates are children, I'm just saying like, you just got to be direct sometimes.

Yeah, you just gotta say it like it is.

Okay. On the, on the results of the podcast now, you know, it's working, it's working, it feels awesome. It's working. But what, what does that actually mean? I've been in a situation where you got a podcast and you, you, you feel it, you get DMs on LinkedIn, it shows up on sales calls. I'm wondering if you feel that in the same way.

Yeah, I will tell you right now, I cannot tie it back to I don't know, more than a handful of deals where it's been mentioned on a sales call, or I know for a fact that someone either saw a clip, heard an episode, right? However, I, yeah, I think like you say, we feel it. We feel the increase of, you know, the, the kind of up and to the right increase of traffic, the growth on social between me and Josh. Um, The, uh, we're doing a live episode actually. This is exciting. Next week, by the time this actually airs, it'll have happened. Thank God. I'm like really nerve-wracked about it.

But, um, is it in Florida? We're like live in Florida?

No, we're gonna do like a Goldcast webinar live recording, and it's gonna feel just like the podcast. Like, it, it's gonna be wild. All right, so we're, we're doing more of it. Like, we even just like the registrations for that, I'm like, it's working. We have fans and followers and listeners.

Um, so you feel it, you feel it beyond sales, which is like a cool benefit of it, which is like employment brand, personal brand. There just feels to be more there. It's not like I know for a fact that the podcast has generated 6 deals for us, but it's more just like in general since doing this, there seems to be more like buzz and air cover for Vector.

Yes. Yeah. I think one One of the marketing team's goals for 2026 is to be your marketing team's favorite marketing team. And I think that the podcast is a really great example. Who came up with that idea? It was me.

Hell yeah.

I mean, it's real. Like, I want people to, when they're asked like, who's doing cool stuff, I want people to say Vector. And the podcast is an example of that.

I like that. I like goals like that.

Yeah.

This is what happens when you put a content brand person in charge of marketing.

Yeah.

This is healthy. The goal doesn't always have to be 7 million in pipeline this quarter. Obviously that's the one that's gonna get you to keep your job. But like, you do both. You're gonna get more inbound because more people know Vector. I meant to say this to you earlier, but I like the goal of like, we're doing this to get more people to know that we exist.

Yeah. How would they ever buy from you if they don't know who you are and who you, and do they like you? Like, that's a big thing too. Just likability. Cool.

So, and then podcasts, uh, you're gonna double down on it?

Yes, still going. We're doing live episodes, season 3 and 4, they're coming. Cool.

Dan's on my ass about podcast downloads. It's my least favorite topic in the world. Why is that?

I think you're doing amazing, are you not?

Yeah, it's fine. It's just like, it's seasonal, like December and January. Oh yeah, like Thanksgiving through January, like And it's— I've been doing this for, for many— for 7 years now, and it's like every year, like, few— I haven't— I feel like I haven't listened to a podcast in 3 months, and that's okay. I'm still doing mine. Yeah. So, you know, he's just like, why are these down? Why are they— I'm like, dude, it's okay, it's okay.

And then, yeah.

And then also, I don't know, I just feel like the goal is not— I don't really care if they grow like this because the podcast, I think there are so many benefits of it beyond just like the growth machine. Yeah. And it's like we create content through it. You meet people through it, you know, for you and Josh, like it's an amazing way to get content out. You're now kind of like putting takes and bits on the record and like that thing you said in the podcast actually becomes like a key piece of messaging and like that becomes his like keynote at your event. And, you know, customers are DMing you saying they listen. People are sharing with their families and saying like, yo, check out the podcast of my CEO. So there's, there's a lot of benefits beyond just the downloads.

100%.

Do you think a part of it, like, did you commit to doing this regardless of how it went, or did you say like, hey, we're gonna do 3 episodes and try this?

We committed to a full season and just kind of wanted to see like what it would do. I, I, you know what, Dave, I think the thing that we really realized it was like becoming a thing was my and Josh's social following like really started, we started to see really steady growth. I've been posting on LinkedIn for like 3 years now, close to 4. You know, the algorithm kind of does its thing year over year and it's like you see growth and then it kind of levels off. You see growth behind the scenes. For me, like I was starting to see like real growth again. And so I was like, so something's happening here. Like this is, this is happening. So I think that was the moment when we were like, okay, even I think halfway through Season 1 being distributed, like the 4th episode was out and we were like, we're doing Season 2 already again. So, um, yeah, it makes a difference. It's hard to track. Yes. But like, you can feel it. You can find it.

Damn. I'm looking at your LinkedIn right now and your post today. I'm like, is that me? It's a bald guy with like a stubble and he's got an Exit 5 crew neck on. I really was like, was that me for a second? No, the head shape is different. That's true. Okay, uh, let's see, LinkedIn. You talked a bunch about LinkedIn. You've been posting on LinkedIn for 3 years. You said— holy shit, you got 37,000 followers! That's, that's not a— that's not a joke. That's not— that, that ain't no 10K, Jess.

No, that's the main reason my daughter thinks I'm cool. Uh, you know, you know.

Wow, love that. And, and you start— we started posting 3 years ago. Is that—

is that—

is this all been growth within 3 years?

Yeah, almost 4. I think it was April of 2022 I started posting.

You know what, you know those things like, imagine being one of those people who posts on LinkedIn, and then I'm like, that's me, hi. I'm like, you're looking at me, bitch. Yeah.

And like, yeah, what about it?

Exactly, bro. Or like, I, I mean, I think it just— and then there's another one who's like, I one day I wanna— the point of working— you've seen the other ones— like, the point of working is to never have to use LinkedIn.

Hey, you know what? I will tell you, the point of LinkedIn is to never have to apply for a job. That is—

or like to have a— you have a family, you want to make money, that's okay.

You have—

you're running marketing, you have like a great company paying you money to talk about their products, and like you can use that money to live your life. Like, goddamn, that's good. That's good.

It is amazing. Yes.

Um, but that's crazy. 3 years, 37,000 followers.

Can—

I mean, hey, hell, heck yeah. We, we love—

we, we love that.

I'm, I'm happy to have a LinkedIn success, success story. How do you define your, your content strategy? In my prep notes from Aaron, it says LinkedIn unhinged branding, but like, I don't, I don't really think you're unhinged. You're like, you're not—

she might be talking about Vector. Like, Vector's a little—

Vector's unhinged. Oh, the— okay, Jess Cook is not unhinged. The Vector Social brand is unhinged.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Which honestly, like, all I do for the Vector Social page is just like repost me and Josh's stuff, but from the podcast mostly. But yeah, I don't— my content strategy is like, I just, I really started posting on LinkedIn because, um, my— so, okay, hold on, actually I gotta go back even further. My background is in copywriting and creative direction. I was copywriter and creative director on B2C brands, McDonald's, Rice Krispies, Frosted Flakes, Pop-Tarts, Cottonelle. A lot of like CPG stuff, uh, for 15 years. And I made the switch over to B2B and SaaS in 2019, and I felt so lost in those first couple of years. Like, I was like, they're gonna figure out I have no idea what I'm doing, they're gonna fire me. Like, all I know how to do is write recipe descriptions for Rice Krispie Treats. Like, what am I doing here? And, um, Finally got my feet underneath me and I finally, like, it took a good 2 years, but I really felt like, okay, I actually, like, I have some transferable skills here. Like, I know what I'm doing. I know what good content is. And so I started writing on LinkedIn because I was like, man, I really wish I would've had somebody to just like throw me a tip of the day, like help me feel like I wasn't drowning. And I just wanted to be that person for someone else. And I just kept going. So that's kind of my ethos is like, What would help someone not want to cry at their job today? Like, what could be something that could really help them out that they could use who's a content marketer or trying to move up the ladder or has an untraditional background that maybe is like, man, today is rough and they just need a little glimmer of hope.

Can you remember a Rice Krispies, um, uh, recipe off the top of your head right now?

Well, it's the same recipe over and over and over, and you just put a different topping. So it could be like butterscotch Rice Krispies Treats, and you just put butterscotch in the original recipe. Like, I legit— I wrote, I kid you not, 200+ recipe descriptions as a junior copywriter.

Love that. Yeah, look, I think it's— I think it's great. I love— I love the— I love the background and, and, and how that, how that plays out. And I think, um, it's the perfect era for this. Like, yeah, I think you have to you have to win by standing out, by being different, by getting attention, by getting people to, to like you. I talked to— I did a podcast this morning actually with, with Louis, Louis Grenier. You know his books?

Yes.

Yeah. And his whole thing is like standing out, being different. He was great. He was super creative. Reminded me a lot of like kind of like Harry Dry type of stuff. But yeah, I like that. Even just like the fact that Vector has a has a mascot for some reason works for me. Yeah, like it does. And I said to you yesterday, like, you get— you gave these out at our event and like my kids both have this ghost, this ghost stuffy. But there's something about like, I'm looking at your LinkedIn, like the banner you have, the only way to build ad audiences by name, and it's Vector and this little ghost. And then like your, your white and pink, like the brand colors, it really does work. And it makes me— I said this on the podcast with Louis, but like It'd be, it'd be fun to like use brand as an advantage right now and to stand out and to not have your website and everything feel like, you know, Stripe or whatever.

I feel like it's non-negotiable moving forward. And I think I posted this just the other day. I really think we're going to start to see content marketers move up into that like marketing lead role, uh, because they understand that and You know, I think that was part of the reason I like Vector was so appealing to me when the opportunity arose was like they had the ghosts on their site. They really, they named the problem. They had fun colors. There was like a little bit of, I don't know, sass or attitude to their vibe and their tone. And it spoke to me as like my past in B2C, right? Where everything has a mascot and you actually like try to capitalize on emotion and not just like, oh, there's frosting on every flake, right? Like, it's bigger than that. And I think we're going to start to see, like, this is going to be the new wave where marketers who understand that are rising to the top.

And it's just more fun. This is a more fun job to, like, be creative. And, like, I don't know, I love that stuff. Like, this— what I love about marketing is, like, if the— my kid's school was doing a fundraiser and they wanted help, like, getting more parents to like donate. I'd love to be involved in that and like come up with something creative. And that's what we're doing just at a bigger scale with like a B2B brand. And like, that's the fun shit. That, that is so fun. What, what's not fun is all the other internal and people stuff and da da da. But like, I think if we can do more of that, like craft— I love this lately, like the craft of marketing, the art of marketing, like that, that, that's what's fun.

It's so fun. And we, we lean pretty hard into the ghost. I think people loved, really love him. Like, I've had so many people tell it, tell me now that like when they see a ghost, they think of Vector. They don't think of Snapchat. Like, they think of us, which is, that's pretty wild.

Who did you have? So did the ghost start out like as you, you all just started using the ghost emoji, and then did you eventually like design the ghost emoji into your own ghost?

So Josh came up with the ghost, which again, like, find you a, a, a C-suite leader who believes in brand so much they create their own, uh, mascot. Like that, that's huge. Uh, so he created the ghost. He used a little ghost image on one page of the website kind of to start as, as this idea of like, we are revealing the ghosts that are coming to your site, clicking your ads, right? Like they're no longer anonymous. And when I started last year, they were a pretty big, like part of the branding already. And I just recognized that it could be the thing we really lean into and use all the time. So yeah, the, the ghost emoji is like, I think we kind of own that now. We're gonna do a little sneak peek of our, our plan this year. We're gonna do a little tour. Uh, we're gonna do our own little event series called the Ghost Tour Tour, where we go to different cities and we're taking prospects and customers out to nice dinner, and then we're gonna go do like a walking ghost tour, right? We do a lot of like the, hey boo, or we like lean into the like language like that. I, I, one of my favorite parts of the job is I have the privilege of commenting as Vector on LinkedIn. So like I get, I take on the voice of the ghost.

Oh yeah, when that's, when, when it's not you, actually you can say whatever you want.

Oh, it's so fun.

Yeah, I call it like, are there other, are there other brands that you think have done a good job of this? It like kind of created a character are winning right now with brand? Like Vector is one. Who, maybe one or two others that you could mention that, that people might, um, follow?

Fiddler is another one. Um, if you've ever heard of Fiddler, they're, uh, they're a LinkedIn like ads, uh, attribution tool. They also have a mascot. It's a little like lion. I stop at every single one of their ads that I ever see on LinkedIn because it's always like their— oh yeah, lion in some sort of like meme that I've seen before, like the actual—

it's a Swedish company. This is always true, there's something out there that they—

yeah, yeah. So they're, they're a really good one. Um, there are companies that have mascots that I'm like, use your mascot more.

Like, you know, like who, who's got a good mascot?

Mutiny has the raccoon.

Oh yeah, yeah.

And I'm like, you gotta, you gotta use that raccoon more.

I need a mascot.

You need a mascot.

You need a mascot.

What would be your mascot?

Like the number 5 with like legs.

Oh, I love it.

I don't know. I don't know. That's a good one. The ghost is great. The ghost is— the ghost works. All right, cool. Uh, brand. Like, brand is back, baby. It's funny, this, this note in here was, uh, you know, Jess, Jess worked on childhood brands: McDonald's, Eggo, Rice Krispies, and Cottonelle. This is Google Gemini, by the way. Oh, and one of the suggested questions was, you spent years writing for brands like Eggo and Rice Krispies. Now that you're a parent yourself, do you look at these boxes in your own pantry and think, I would have written that tagline differently?

That's a great question.

I think that was Erin. That was Erin, actually, not Gemini.

Ah, she's amazing. Oh, I'm sure I would have. I mean, I was writing those lines as like a 20-year-old.

No disrespect, 20-year-olds. Listen, there's no disrespect.

One, I was a 20-something, but I'm 38.

Listen to me, I'm 38, and if I could go back for one day and talk a bunch of shit to my 23-year-old and 25-year-old self, I would.

Heck yes, absolutely agreed. Yeah, I would. And because I know things now that I couldn't have possibly known then. So yeah, absolutely, I would, right?

Which is just— which is— it doesn't even mean you're smarter, just like literally you have more time. Like, I will have— I will know more when I'm 70 than I know more now. The fact any, any older person, any person older than me that I've ever disrespected in my life, take back, it's over, wipe it away. Never happened.

Never happened.

No, right.

I, I understand the error of my ways.

You and the copywriting thing now. So you wrote for like the big brands, right? But now all the, the whole marketing play is like everything in our pantry, right? It's like Linda made these snacks because she was tired of feeding her family. She was, she saw the sugar, how much sugar there was in normal snacks. And so she made veggie chips. You know, it's like, it's always a story about like how some family like created their own thing now, or another garage, sold it in a wagon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. What is your like guilty pleasure, uh, at-home drink during the day? Like for me, I'm a closet Olipop guy. I'm not, you know, a lot of people don't like it, a lot of people do. Has that fake taste in it. For me it works well. What's your— do you have one? I could see you being a tea person.

I'm a Coke Zero girl.

Uh, whoa, I didn't see that.

Yeah, wow, love it. Okay, uh, can't get enough. I have to like limit myself to one a day.

Does it have caffeine?

Oh yeah, and caffeine doesn't really like do anything for me though. I could have a cup of coffee right before bed and be fine.

Has that always been true? Yeah, so we had, we had this, we were in Arizona and we had this team dinner and it was really late at night and I was on the West Coast and I just was all out of it and Dan got a— I was really full too. And after dinner, he ordered an espresso. He says, I always get an espresso after dinner. And he's like, I feel like I ate— we ate so much. He's like, you'll be fine, you ate so much steak, like, it's not gonna bother you. I was up the whole freaking night. Oh yeah, so that stressed me out. You're a Coke Zero. We're gonna send you a big case of Coke Zero. Oh, you can have one a day. When is it— is it timed? Is it timed at a certain point in the day?

This is the thing about getting older. I won't tell you how old I am, but I am older than you, and I don't like to drink water. I I have this— Josh actually for Christmas got me this water bottle that like lights up when I don't drink enough. And so I make myself drink 3 of those before I can have a Coke Zero.

That's good. Good for you. And I would have guessed that you're like 28, so take that, put it in the bank, clip that on the record. You can have it. Gift from me to you. Happy Hanukkah. Like, you know, You're good. Uh, what else is in my, what is in my doc? I think, I think we did it. We talked a little bit about the transition from content to VP of marketing, but maybe let's wrap up and just, and hit on this for, for a couple more minutes. I, we didn't do it enough justice.

Yeah.

Are there things that need to be different? Content person Jess to VP Jess, and, and what are they?

Uh, here I will tell you my weaknesses and things that I need, like muscles I need to build now. And, and started before I got to this role, but really need to build now that I'm, I'm in the role. But, um, one is metrics reporting. Like, I, you know, one, we do a lot— like, I think the first year of me being here was a lot of like vibes and feeling, like, does this work? Do we feel the pull of this program we just started? Yeah, we think it's working. I want to get really good this year at like knowing what's working, um, and actually doing some sort of reporting and like building some dashboards. We have an incredible RevOps lead, I believe She's been on, she's been on multiple, uh, Exit 5 events, Sarah McNamara. But, um, she's, uh, building all kinds of stuff for me for this year to really understand like what's working, where should we double down. So that's one big thing. Two, managing a team. Uh, when I was a creative director, I managed, uh, copywriters and art directors, you know, teams of 10 or so. But it's been a while and, uh, managing an actual like marketing team is is, um, you know, that, that's a, that's a different skill set than being the individual contributor. So those are, those are the two for me, is like really sharpening up on like kind of reporting and metrics and understanding like what's in— what is important. There's so much data that you could gather and like what's just noise and what actually is showing me that like we're doing our jobs. And, um, second is just being a good leader for my team. We have a demand gen marketer starting, later this month, which is so exciting. And yeah, so there'll be 3 of us on the marketing team and I just wanna be, I wanna be a great, a great leader to them. Hey buddy.

Nice. Sam's here. I think you're set up. I, I think that's also a key ingredient in your past without knowing you too well personally. If you can manage copywriters and create, like there, to be able to be a creative director is, is You know, you weren't a VP or a marketing leader before, but managing that many people and having to give feedback on work at that scale is, is, you know, very translatable. Very important. He had to know where my baseball glove is. There's a foot of snow on the ground. I don't know why, why that.

They don't care. Kids don't care. They will swim in 50-degree water. They will play in the shorts and play in the snow in their shorts. Doesn't matter.

Yeah.

How do you, how do you balance, um, keeping your sanity while working from home and having a family?

It's not easy.

If we could make a— if we could make a GIF— I say GIF— if we could make a GIF out of your reaction right there, that, that would be like, that's the answer.

Let's do it. Uh, there are a few of those from our podcast that are gold. I make some crazy faces. I don't mean to. I am fortunate enough to be able to like get my groceries delivered, paid to have my house cleaned, like Uh, to anyone that has the ability to do those things, like I just say, do it. I think part of it too is like, I'm kind of okay with the house looking like a Toys R Us exploded in it at some point. And then knowing that like, I'll clean it up this weekend. So a lot of it is just like, what can I outsource? Very much like I would here at Vector, like what can and should I outsource? The other kind of side of that coin is like, I realistically have, let's say, a max of 50 hours to give Vector a week. And like I've told Josh this before, like that is, that's what I have and I will work my ass off for you in that 50 hours. And then when the kids are home or we have Girl Scouts or we have basketball practice or, you know, volleyball practice, like I'm gonna sign off and I'm gonna go enjoy those things without feeling guilty. And he has kids too. I think that's a, that's a really important piece is like, find yourself some leaders that, if they aren't in the same life stage as you, at least to have empathy for that and, and will give you the flexibility you need to like live your life while you work.

Amen.

Because if you don't do that, you're an asshole.

Yes, facts. No lies detected.

There you go, send that to your boss. But do you— are you able to fully turn off No, like you're not checking your chat and you're not like looking at, look, sitting up in the bleachers looking at Slack on your phone.

Oh, totally. Yeah. I, I'll be on vacation. I was, I was in a pool in Turks and Caicos earlier this year checking in, like checking in on LinkedIn. I'm like, what am I doing?

So like, that's not, that's the whole thing, right? Like even you quantifying it as 50 hours, it's like, it's not, it's not 50. Yeah.

You're so right.

It's not.

Yeah. Maybe, maybe like hours touching the computer, but like, yeah.

Yeah.

And like, as the owner of the business, like, don't you just want— or the boss, whoever— like, is it about the hours that you're working? Or like, how can I create an environment where like, you, you're, you're walking the beach in Turks and Caicos and you're like, oh, you know what, Kai, but you know what ads we should run? Like, I want that. And so if you're only going to be in the office for whatever, but like, you get it. And, and we're in marketing, like, ideas don't just stop. And so like, are you gonna be like, all right, my work brain is off. Like, do Dave— do not get any ideas this weekend because if you get them, you'll have to work.

Those are the moments when you get the ideas when you are away and you're working.

Every weekend ever, every weekend ever is when I have ideas, because Monday through Friday you're in meetings, and then when you finally get a minute, it's like, oh, ha, yeah, unlock, I got it, I figured it out.

Yeah.

Um, do your kids know what you do for work?

So my oldest will be 13, uh, in 4 days, so she kind of gets it. She understands.

She thinks it's cool that I have like LinkedIn followers I mean, what is it? Does age matter? My, my parents are 68 and they don't know what I do, so the age is not the qualifier.

That's true. I feel like that, like, man, this generation, like, she showed me how to edit videos on my phone. Um, she has shot videos for me for LinkedIn, so she totally gets like what I do and that I'm helping building a company and we have a brand. Like, she understands all that. My My 6-year-old, uh, like doesn't really get it. She'll like come in and she'll be like, oh, that's you, look at that, you know, like she thinks that's kind of cool.

That was my guy that just came in, is 6, and he, he literally, that's why he was like, Dad, Dad, because he, and he can't hear because I got these in, and so you're just like, there's no sound right now, and I'm just sitting here. He has no idea you're talking.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I know, they, they like get it, but they don't, you know, I mean, they don't really understand like what marketing is.

But, uh, yeah, yeah, but they have nice clothes they can wear to school.

Heck yeah, you know that. They have a Stanley Cup, or the Owala is like the big one now, the big—

uh, give me a break. My whole— the whole issue at the kid's birthday was someone gave her off-brand Stanley, and I had to tell her it wasn't a Stanley, and we got an argument about it. Like, no, but seriously, this is why brand matters. That's not actually a Stanley.

Yeah, even at that age it matters.

Yes, but they created a cat anyway. All right, Jess Cook, you rock, man. Thank you for hanging out. This is great. Super fun. You can go find Jess Cook on LinkedIn. We'll, we're measuring your follower count before and after this, and so we will be able to directly track how many followers you got. Go check out Vector. And Jess is also like OG member of the Exit5 community. She's in there. You could, you know, holler at her in there or, you know, say like, hey, I heard Jess on the podcast and it was awesome., and then just send me any notes or feedback, Dave@ExitFive.com, or reach out on LinkedIn. Um, big year ahead for our podcast. We wanna share a lot of like really useful marketing stuff, and I hope we're off to a good start. Uh, but if we're not, send me a note and let me know. 'Cause they will, Jess. And you know what, feedback, like we talked about earlier, Jess, feedback is a gift, right?

It's a gift. It's a gift. Hey, thanks for making my dream come true. I appreciate it.

Oh, do you stop that?

Don't.

Hey, thanks for listening to this podcast. If you like this episode, you know what? I'm not even gonna ask you to subscribe and leave a review because I don't really care about that.

I have something better for you.

So we've built the number one private community for B2B marketers at ExitFive, and you can go and check that out instead of leaving a rating or review. Go check it out right now on our website, exitfive.com. Our mission at ExitFive is to help you grow your career in B2B you need to be marketing. And there's no better place to do that than with us at ExitFive. There's nearly 5,000 members now in our community. People are in there posting every day, asking questions about things like marketing, planning, ideas, inspiration, asking questions and getting feedback from your peers, building your own network of marketers who are doing the same thing you are so you can have a peer group, or maybe just venting about your boss when you need to get in there and get something off your chest. It's 100% free to join for 7 days, so you can go and check it out risk-free.

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