10 Things Married Sex Is Not (Part 1)

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Welcome to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We're Dave and Ashley Willis. On this podcast we address the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. And this is a sex episode.

It is. Be ready.

We are in part one of a two part little mini series we're gonna do on 10 things that married sex is not or should not be. So we're gonna talk about five things sex should not be in this episode and then five more next week. This is based on a very popular post we had on our Instagram account not too long ago. If you're not following us on Instagram, vandashleywillis check us out over there. We'd love to stay connected to you online. We interact with folks there and your messages to us there help shape a lot of the content we do here. Also on Facebook. Thanks for writing us there. Wherever you connect to us, we appreciate it, but it's gonna be a good episode. But before we dive in, the love of my life here has a review that she's going to share.

That's right. And this review is from Single and Full of Desire. And he entitled this love this podcast. And he says, I'm a single guy and hope to enjoy God's blessing of marriage someday. Growing up in a family that never talked about sex, this podcast has really blessed me and that just meant the world to me. I always love it when we hear from single people who are listening to this because I just consider them extremely wise. You know, I wish that there had been resources like this when we were, you know, in the dating world because it would have helped us, it would have given us a lot of wisdom. And so I just commend you, single guy and full of desire for just listening to this and and leaving that review because I do think that you're preparing yourself for marriage. And I'm glad that you find this to be a safe place to talk about all things marriage, including sex.

Yeah, that means a lot to us if you're doing the right thing by, by planning ahead and that's right. That's really wise. So guys, thanks for tuning in. It's an important episode today, so let's dive in.

If you guys are watching on YouTube, I'm sure you can see the goofy grin on Dave's face because anytime we talk about sex, especially if I'm talking.

About sex, listening to her talk about like he loves it.

Yeah, he just.

Two of my favorite things, like number one, sex. Number two, listening to Ashley talk about sex. So this is high on the list and we're going to talk about it over the next two episodes.

Kind of a two parter, right?

We're going to kind of take it in terms of a list that we posted online. 10 things that sex is not. So 10 things that you need to remove from your sexual vocabulary in marriage. And we're going to break this into two episodes and do five now and then five more to come. And so we've been talking a lot about this. If you follow the Naked Marriage podcast for any length of time or us on social media, Ave and Ashley Willis on Instagram or followed us on Facebook, you know, we post and talk a lot about sex. And our brand new book, the Counterfeit Climax. That's right is the most sex specific book we've ever written. It's really all about how to break free from all the broken counterfeit messages about sex and really experience the kind of freedom and intimacy God wants you to have. So check out that book if you haven't already. But we're gonna dive in to 10 things sex is not five this episode. So sweetie, let's, let's just jump in. What's the first thing that sex is not all right supposed to be?

First one is it is not forced. These are not in any specific order, but it is not forced, you guys. And I think what we mean by that is it's not where any one partner, you know, the husband or the wife cannot look and be like, I'm forcing you to do this. You know, that's not going to end well. It's going to really. Cause I mean, it's really abusive. First of all, it's emotionally abusive and, and it's not going to, it's not going to lead to having good sex because somebody's going to feel forced. I mean, when you feel forced, you're not really willingly engaging.

Right, right. I mean, in the purest sense of the word, forced. It's actually rape. We've done a. Oh, my goodness. We've done a full episode on marital rape where, you know, it's. It's.

Which is never, ever. Okay.

Yeah. For. We're not just, you know, forced. Could be. There's like a spectrum of like.

Spectrum. Yes.

You know, forced, where you just kind of feel pressured and you kind of give in, but you're not really, really into it, which isn't ideal. All the way to the other end of the spectrum where you're physically, you know, forced, which is criminal and wrong. And. And if that's something that's happened in your marriage, it's. It's one of the most, you know, intimate and destructive forms of abuse that one can experience and so encourage you to go back and listen to that episode and get help if you're in a situation in marriage where you're experiencing that kind of violent and very betraying abuse. And so.

Yes.

So forced on any level, though, is.

Yes. Because it's supposed to be a mutually satisfying experience. I mean, and it shouldn't be forced. You know, we're going to talk about some other parts of this that. Where it could. Being, you know, being. It could lead to being forced, I guess, in a sense that. Not in the criminal sense of marital rape, but just in the sense of, you know, feeling like. Well, I guess, you know, I. He really wants me to do this, so I need to do this, or she, you know, this is what I need to do. But. But just in the sense of force on any spec.

Or a specific act, like if.

Or a specific.

Right. If, like, you're, you know, having consensual sex, but it's at some point in that, you know, one. One spouse, essentially, without kind of any kind of consent, maybe even against your will, forces some act within that that you're uncomfortable doing or that you've said that you didn't want to do or whatever it might be. And then, you know, yet you feel in that moment like you didn't have a choice. So, I mean, all that is just so far out of bounds, and we have to, you know, that's why we talk about these things. They're awkward to talk about because. But we talk about the awkward because these are important things. And if this. We gotta provide a safe place to have these conversations. And I'm glad that we can do it here on the Naked Marriage podcast.

Absolutely. And so how do you know if sex is Being forced, You know, if your spouse has. If you've ever first of all reluctantly done a certain sexual act or reluctantly had sex and really, in every part of you was resistant because you were not.

And you'd communicate.

Communicate. Right. You communicated this, and yet your spouse was still like, no, no, we need to do this, or, you know, the person who's forcing, if you've said you, you know, you have to do this because I ask you to or because you're my husband, you're my wife, and they just are disregarding your feelings. That's. That's what we're talking about there. All right, number two, sex is not a bargaining tool.

Oh, yeah, See, stepping on more toes with this one, I think is, well.

Online we had a few people disagree with me on this because bargaining tool kind of captures a lot of different situations. Like, you could also say, and this would. Another way to say this would be, you know, sex is not a bribe or a punishment. Okay?

Right, right. A transact, because that makes it transactional. Like, you know, if you go and wash the car.

Right.

If you do that and then do this list of chores, then now, I mean, granted, doing some chores might. That your spouse wants done. Might want. Might put them more in a mindset where they can have their mind free to make love. In fact, we call that chore play. Right. When you're. You're doing chores to kind of help help each other get into the mood because you're, you're freeing stuff off the to do list. But when it just becomes purely transactional, like you're given, you know, a sticker for good grades or something, you know, here's your lollipop because you got, you know, you got an A on your report card kind of thing. Then it, it cheapens it some, you know, so. And then likewise, withholding sex just because you're like, oh, you know, you did this one thing and annoyed me. And so I'm going to withhold sex as a form of punishment. I'm not talking about withholding sex because there's been this, this, like, real breach of trust, and you're trying to create a safe place for trust to be rebuilt. I'm talking about just you're kind of pouting about something and say, I'm not going to give you sex because I'm annoyed at this, and I'm going to use sex's power over you to make you either beg for it or to let you know that you can't have it. And I'm going to punish you by not giving it is a way to withhold affection. And all of that on both ends is really unhealthy.

And I want to say this, too. We've actually had some wives write us and say that sometimes, like on days that the husband. Their husband would know they were going to have sex, whether that was talked about in the morning, or maybe they do schedule it on a calendar, whatever it is, they would be nice to their wife. But on days when they knew that probably wasn't going to happen, they would be mean to their wife.

Now, I've. I've heard husbands talk about this where it's. It's almost like, you know, if it. He's got the clear mindset that that's not happening today. That he just doesn't care about being kind or how he treats. Yeah, how he treats. Because it's like, well, the whole reason I was being nice was for sex.

Which is just terrible.

And that's not happening today. So what's the point of being nice at all? I'm just gonna do what I want. And, you know, who cares what she thinks? And that mindset is so broken. And so, guys, we've gotta just be nice to each other all the time, not just to get sex, but because that's your spouse and you love them and that they're such a gift from God. And everything you say and do for them and towards them should communicate that kindness and tenderness.

Exactly. All right, number three, sex should not be painful. Okay? And again, there's a spectrum to this because, you know, there. There are times, like, especially if you're having sex the first time, it's gonna be painful for the woman. That's just part of it, but that's a very temporary pain. And, you know, sometimes you may not even know going into sex that, like, you're gonna experience something like we've talked about on here called vaginismus, where, you know, there's a huge. I was actually talking to an author and dear friend of ours, Shanti Feldheim. She's done some research on this. And vaginismus is kind of both mental and physical and has a lot of different things to it. And we're not doctors to describe it here, but basically it's where sex is very painful for the woman. And so, you know, but she would not necessarily know it was going to be painful until she develops that. And, you know, again, we. And so we can't. You know, it's not. If that happens to someone, it's hard because clearly, you know, these are people who want to have sex, but it's, it's really painful. And sex should not be painful. It should be enjoyed by both. But also, you know, that's one spectrum where, you know, it's not like someone's trying to cause pain, it's like an experience you're having. You know, a lot of times women, it can be painful when they're going through menopause. But then there's the other side of it where, you know, there's maybe, you know, one or both partners are really rough with their sex and it's painful each time. Or maybe one partner is and the other isn't and they just don't care what the partner says. You know, even when they indicate this is painful, their partner continues to, to do what they're doing that is painful. And that can really, really cause problems in a marriage because again, it's just like you're not caring about their feelings.

Yeah, yeah. And so you've really got to communicate about this. And if something is hurting you during sex, you have to communicate that.

Absolutely.

And so your spouse isn't. Isn't a mind reader. So if it's something is not enjoyable, you gotta speak up. And if they're forcing something over and over or once, even if they're forcing something or putting high pressure on you to do something that in itself is painful, then that's a huge issue here. And this is usually beyond the scope of just kind of regular vaginal intercourse, Right?

Exactly.

This is kind of these kind of external things that might be fetish based that one spouse might enjoy, that could be painful for the other.

Certain positions could be painful, you know, I mean, it's.

And you have to, if you're not both enjoying it, then don't do it.

Right, Exactly.

And so that's really what it comes down to. But if something hurts, especially then, you know, stop doing that. Pain is your body's way of saying like, hey, this isn't right. This isn't working.

This isn't good. Yeah.

So now if it's pain during regular sex, there are almost always solutions. Whether it is, you know, getting. Sometimes if it's a dryness issue, like get lubricants. If you're allergic to some of the over the counter ones. Get natural ones like coconut oil or safflower oil, which almost no one's allergic to, and they work great as lubricants if it is, you know, like muscular issue. Ashley mentioned vaginismus. You know, we've had episodes interviewing physical therapists who. Who specialize in that. And pelvic floor issues, which are the base of muscles at you know, the kind of the foundation of the. The groin in both men and women that are responsible for a lot of sexual activity. The bottom line is, if you're hurting during sex, then there are solutions to get that fixed with regular intercourse, with some of these kind of external things that maybe just if it's hurting, just tell your spouse, I don't want to do that. It hurts. And then that should be the end of it. But if they keep pressuring, it goes back to that first one. Forced sex.

Exactly.

And that's a whole separate issue.

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Every story you love, every invention that moves you, every idea you wished was yours. All began as nothing. Just a blank page with a blinking cursor asking a simple question. What do you see? Great ideas. Start on Mac. Find out more on apple.com Mac all right, number four.

Sex should not be dreaded. And you know where, like, every time your spouse comes up to you and is like, hey, is this the moment you know? Or they give any indication that they want to make love, if you feel dread, you know, that, that's. That's a point of concern, and that's something that you need to explain floor and really. And think about, well, why is it. Is it because it's painful? Is it because my libido's off and I just. I'm never in the mood. Is it because my spouse has not been kind to me today and I feel like this distance between us or.

My own insecurities or body image issues, Like, I don't like. I don't. I don't want to get naked. I don't like the way that I look or feel. I don't. It could be so many different things, but you have to get to the root of that, because just choosing to say, well, I'm going to live the rest of my life, I'm no longer interested in sex at all. And so either we're just going to live in a sexless marriage against my spouse's will, or it's just going to be something that I dread forever and kind of dutifully do every now and then just to kind of keep our marriage going by meeting the base level of my spouse's need. Like, all of that is. Is not right. So we've got to get to the issue of, like, why. Why do you dread it? And let's figure this out, because there's almost always a solution. Maybe it's a hormonal solution medically. Maybe it's something that in our relationship, outside the bedroom, that needs to be fixed so that there's more trust and security there. But whatever it is, like, let's get to the root of that, right?

Absolutely. And also, I mean, we talked kind of out of the front of this episode about the Counterfeit Climax book, but we actually help people walk through this because we. We do hear from so many, and this is men and women where they just have mixed feelings about sex, and a lot of it goes back to lies they have believed, whether it be how they were taught about sex, their past experiences with sex or lack thereof, just their view of sex in their own body and what God created sex for. You know, they have this kind of. They have negative feelings going on surrounding sex, and so they just kind of shut down when. When the subject is brought up. And so, you know, we hope that you grab the Counterfeit Climax, if you haven't already. It is an audiobook as well. And so if you are accustomed to listening to this podcast, you'd probably love the audiobook. We narrate it and. And really take you through all these questions, too, so that you can really think about. You know, I think so many times we just get stuck in a routine, and we never take the time to think, you know, what is causing this? Because I think we just come to a place where we're like, well, this is just who I am, and. Or this is our normal. But really, you know, it's not right for us to dread sex, guys. There has to be something that's causing that kind of reaction, and there are solutions. You know, I know for me personally, when I was going through anxiety and depression, my mind just wasn't in a healthy place. And so sex was kind of not this thing that I thought a lot about because my mind was so riddled with all of my anxious thoughts. And so when I went to my counselor, you know, we would talk through about all my anxiety and things like that. But then we'd also talk about making sure that I kept my marriage strong and talk to Dave about how I was Feeling so that, you know, when I would talk to Dave about how I was feeling, it made me feel closer to him. And then, you know, the physical response of. Of sex is really like an outpouring of that understanding and that love. And actually, when you're going through something like anxiety and depression, it actually relieves some of that tension that you're feeling. But what's so crazy about it is we. We a lot of times kind of push that away because we're like, no, no, I can't even think about that right now. When it's the very thing that is. Is. Is something that can actually help us. But we wouldn't even know that if we never talked about it, if we never sought help over it. And so we hope that, you know, as you're watching and listening to this podcast, if anything, it just makes you have maybe a light bulb moment where you're like, that's me. Like, I see myself in that, and I. Maybe I can take those steps and have, you know, get help as well and not feel like I'm just stuck in this dynamic. All right, last one. Sex should not be uncomfortable. And this kind of goes with painful, but it's a little bit different, right?

Yeah, we added this one in in addition to painful. Because discomfort doesn't just mean the physical, right? It means, like, you know, it can mean anything, emotionally or otherwise, that you're. You're wrestling with leading up to sex. Connected to sex, you know, beyond just physical pain and uncomfortable can come down to, like, again, I feel uncomfortable with my own body, like, just in terms of I feel insecure about how I look or my potential. Maybe I feel uncomfortable. I'm not sure I'm going to be able to perform uncomfortable. Could be, like, maybe I have these mindsets about sex that I carried into the marriage from growing up and kind of being taught that sex is dirty or shameful or wrong. Maybe I'm uncomfortable because of my spouse's sexual past, and I feel like maybe I'm not measuring up to these past experiences he's had or she's had. And I'm uncomfortable maybe because of images in my own mind that I've put there through pornography or otherwise, that have shaped my expectations around sex in a way that I know is completely unrealistic and even sinful because of where those expectations were based. So there's so many things that can lead to discomfort in marriage that we need to work through to really experience freedom. And again, coming back to the Counterfeit Climax book, which is a big reason why we wrote the book was to help couples work through these kinds of issues individually and collectively as a couple, so they could experience real freedom and comfort and pleasure in the bedroom.

Yeah, because the marriage bed should be a place of comfort. It should be a place where you don't feel judged. You don't feel shamed. You feel freedom. You feel a sense of warmth and acceptance and safety. And so if you're not feeling those things, you need to have a conversation and say, listen. You know, I listen to this podcast. They were talking all about the things that sex is not. And I feel like, you know, one of the things was uncomfortable. And I realized that I don't feel total comfort with you. And I just. I don't know if it's me or if it's you, but can we start that conversation? Because I want to feel that. And not that you're pointing fingers, but you're just recognizing it's in your part, you know, personally, you're not feeling total freedom and safety and comfort. And I think that just that conversation alone is going to draw you closer. And that in and of itself is intimacy.

Absolutely. Man, that's so good, guys. We're going to have five more of those next week, so tune in next week. But before we wrap up today, yes, it's time for Q and A. I love how we end our podcast with a question that you guys write in. We love your questions@nakedmarriagepodcast.com and also the ones you write us on social media, Instagram, avanashleywillis, Facebook, and wherever you write us. We're happy to get your messages. Today's message says this. One of our struggles is that I have a much higher drive than my husband, yet I hate to initiate. As comfortable as I am with him in every other part of life, being the initiator in bed feels awkward and I can't move past it. So instead, I go to bed nightly, hoping he'll make the first move. When he shuts the light off, kisses me good night, and closes his eyes to pick peacefully drift off into sleep. I lie there frustrated, and my mind goes to places it shouldn't, that I'm not attractive enough. How do I bring this up? Well, first off, thank you for sharing this and don't feel at all alone in being the wife with the higher drive. I think that stereotypes, and I hope we've never on this podcast or our books or anything else fed into this stereotype. It's not always the man who has the higher drive. Very often it's the woman who has the higher drive. And then she feels that she's a weirdo because nobody talks about the higher drive woman, even though it's a very common dynamic. And they think, well, I must be unattractive. There must be something wrong with me for my husband to not. Like, I'm, like, I'm ready to go, and he's, you know, he's not. And why is that? So there are a lot of factors that can contribute to a man's lower or higher drive. But, sweetie, before we dive into any of that, what are some of your initial thoughts?

Well, as far as, like, from her description and her question, it looks like I don't. I think she. She doesn't want to initiate. And I don't know if it's because she feels like she's always the one initiating.

Right.

Or if she just feels awkward. Right. I think she wants to be pursued by her husband. But I would say, too, don't, don't not initiate ever. I mean, I think that there's nothing wrong at all with both partners initiating at various times. And it sounds like, though, that maybe she initiates a lot more than him and she just wishes he would initiate a lot more.

I get that.

But I think that, you know, kind of having this unspoken thing because it looks like, you know, she doesn't really say anything because I think she said she feels awkward is the word she used, you know, and I, I would just be honest with him and say, listen, I love you and I want you all the time, and I just, I feel like I'm initiating a lot more than you. And. And I was just wondering if you could, like, I mean, just be. Be honest with them and say, yeah, you know, what would that look like? And is there anything I can do to make that happen more? Because I love it when you initiate, you know, just to be honest with him.

And maybe like, me, like, his, His. His time of. Of greatest desire isn't right at bedtime.

Sure.

You know, like, if. So if that's the moment when you feel like that's when it has to happen. And like, I'm. That's my worst time of day. I'm still. I'm still, you know, happy most of the time to, you know, I'm always up for whatever activities you have in.

Mind, but that's your lowest. But I'm tired energy points.

I'm tired at night. Like, I'm thinking, you know, how about.

I'm sorry, our team is laughing.

How about an afternoon delight? How about, like, A mid morning Afternoon.

Delight is not only your favorite time, but your favorite song. One of them. It's in the top.

Well, I just, I feel like Afternoon Delight. I feel seen.

Can you sing that whole little chorus? It's so funny.

I don't think we own the copyright to that, but can we play?

I did, I did. Just one liner. Okay. He sings it sometimes. That's how much you like it.

Afternoon Delight. So I need to change that to my ringtone.

That's hilarious.

So try to connect with him when, when he's, you know, when. Figure out what his, his flow is in terms of like time of day with peak energy. But beyond that, communicate as clearly to him as you have to us about your desire for him to pursue you and how you feel night after night when you go to bed. And you've not been pursued in that way because he might not have any idea. Like if you've said like, hey, you know, I'd like you to initiate more. That's a, that's a good first start. But he needs to know that this is a deep need of yours beyond just the need for sex. That you have a need to be seen as beautiful in his eyes and to be pursued by him and for him to lead and initiate in that way. And how you crave that, not only in a physical sense, but on every level to be, you know, loved that way by your husband. And if you will make it that clear to him, I, I feel like it's going to kind of be a wake up call for him to say like, wow, like I, I've been dropping the ball here. And, and, and it can help you guys start moving in the right direction. Most sex issues in marriage are also communication issues. Yes, it is. It's one spouse that has these very clear desires and expectations that have not been clearly communicated to the other. And until they're clearly communicated, then it's not really a sex issue, it's a communication issue. Once it's been clearly communicated, if it's still happening, then it's a sex issue. But always start with communication.

I just think I couldn't say that any better. I mean, it really does all boil down to communication. We really have to be gut level, honest in a caring way, not in an accusing way. And just assume that, you know, for this lady in particular, assume your husband doesn't know and, and just really be specific with him. You know, early on in our marriage, we've been married 20 years, you know, over 20 years now. And early on in our marriage, I really thought Dave could read my mind. And it got me into so much trouble, like. Like, so many unnecessary little arguments. And just, you know, it just caused a lot of friction between us, that if I had just told you what I was feeling, what I needed, it would have just saved us, you know? Cause I really assumed that you just knew and were ignoring me. And I'm not saying this lady is doing that. I mean, maybe they have talked about it, but. But I think that just bringing it up and saying, listen, you know, this. This is something where I really need you. Like, I really need you. I want to play to our strengths. I want to find that time of day where, you know, you can be the initiator. And I really think both of you would benefit from this. Just once it's out in the open and just being honest about it, it goes a long way.

So good. I do think the book could help. It's something you guys read or listen to together in the Counterfeit Climax. The conversation guides that we put in there to really help couples have these conversations, which might seem awkward at first, but really can lead to such breakthrough inside and outside the bedroom. For you. I do think that that resource could help. So check out that book if you haven't already. Thank you for the question. Thank you guys for listening to this episode of the Naked Marriage podcast. Thank you. Don't forget to tune in next week for part two. That's right as we talk about five more things that sex is not. And we'll look forward to seeing you then.

Bye, guys.