Addiction, Sobriety and Recovery

Hey there. Welcome back to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis and on this podcast we undress the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. And we have got an awesome episode for you all today.

Yeah, we've been looking forward to this one for a long time. A lot of the questions we get have to do with, with addiction issues in marriage, whether it's, you know, alcohol and drug addiction or any other kind of addiction. So we're actually doing a two part series on addiction and today's part one. And we're going to be interviewing our great friends Eric and Kristen Kennedy, who've walked through addiction and are now in recovery. They've got some wonderful insights you're going to learn from them. Even if right now you're not in addiction or your spouse is not, this isn't an issue that you're facing personally. Still stick around because I think you're going to find so much practical application in the things that they have to say both in this episode and then also stick around for part two as well. But before we dive into this important episode with Eric and Kristin, we want to tell you about an important resource. So check this out.

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Well.

Eric and Kristen, welcome to the Naked Marriage podcast. We love you guys. We're honored to have you on here.

Yes. Hey, guys, thank you so much for having us.

Yeah, we're excited.

Yeah, we're so excited about this, this topic. Today we're doing a two part episode, like I said in the intro about addiction. And your story, your family story really is just inspired me. I mean, we're great friends. I was honored to do your wedding. I mean, it was just. Beautiful wedding, beautiful wedding.

Yeah. Thank you.

And you guys are just awesome. And seeing your family thrive has just been great. But you've come through a lot. And Eric, I know for you personally, addiction was a big part of your journey before you and Kristin got together. And now you've been clean and sober for years. You're in that recovery movement helping others. But we just want to give hope to people today who might be in that right now. And so take us back. Kind of rewind to sort of the darkest moments for you. What was the low point? And then let's start talking through the journey toward hope and healing that's led you to where you are today.

Sure. So this September, I'll have 10 years of good, clean sobriety.

Congrats.

That's awesome.

Thank you. Thank you. So nine years ago, I'll just give you the last year of it in a nutshell. It was just. It was miserable. Day to day was miserable. I hated seeing the sun come up. I hated waking up. I lived on my own. I didn't have custody of my two kids at the time. I lived in a small mobile home in a small rural town in South Carolina. Just didn't make good decisions on a daily basis. Some of my heaviest drug use was crack cocaine. And I was probably drinking up to about a half a gallon of liquor a day. So that's just. That was life for me. The darkest days were seeing my two sons leave on Sunday. And then I had attempted suicide for the second time after someone asked me if I had a problem. It was actually a friend of mine who's the mayor of the town in South Carolina. And I don't know why that question, it just hit my heart so much that I just said, that is exactly what's wrong. I'm an alcoholic. But I wasn't well enough to admit it. So, you know, I tried to put myself to sleep. I took like three bottles of sleeping pills. And I had tried suicide before, but it's like God just wouldn't let me go. I mean, because I woke up the next day at like 7:00', clock, like, okay, it's time to get up, work. It was like nothing happened. And I remember looking at the three empty bottles and I was sleeping in my living room. I had a bed in the living room of the little tiny trailer. And all I owned by now was a TV and a bed that I use as a couch and bed and everything else. And it was just crazy. I saw empty liquor bottles and empty sleeping pill bottles, but I had to get good work. And it was just crazy to think back to and just to try to do that. And God wouldn't let it happen. But I didn't have a relationship with God at the time. I knew that the Presence was there. I mean, I wasn't raised in the church, so when I prayed it was because I needed something or if I talked to God, it's because I was in jail or, you know, waking up on a morning like that. I think this was in September and The lowest, the lowest of the lows was the last day that I went. It was on a Friday morning. I went to the guy that I bought my, my drugs from. I didn't have any money and so he gave me like $60 worth of crack. And I went to a cemetery and smoked. And I called into work. This is like six o' clock in the morning. That's when I would, I would use the. Or start my day was at 6am with this. And I remember coming home and I called into work, called the mayor and told him I couldn't come in today because I just wasn't high. And so I was, I was having that, that I was starting to go into dts where I was shaking real bad. Like my DTS were so bad. If I wrote something in the morning time on a piece of paper, it would look like a different person wrote it by the afternoon because I would shake so bad. But in the afternoon, if I had gotten some liquor in me, all my shakes would be gone. And so I was writing like normal, but it looked like two different people were writing on a piece of paper. If you look back at some of that. But wow. Yeah. But I remember calling into work and what I didn't know is that they were waiting for me to call in one more time. And at like 9 o' clock that morning, I had, I had a little bit of liquor left over, but I was sober. Like, I didn't, I didn't get high off of any of the drugs I was given. I didn't get drunk off any of the drinks I was taking. And my mom and the mayor and two cops rolled up in the front yard of this tiny mobile home. And, and nobody ever came in this house because it was a train wreck. I wouldn't let people come in. I mean, I lived awful. It was awful. I didn't do laundry, I didn't take showers. I didn't have running water. At one point I'd given away my table and chairs for drugs. I'd given, I'd given away crock pots and plates and kids toys and everything. So I didn't want people to see that. But I remember they came and they took me to jail because I was borrowing money from people in town to support my habit. And so that's considered panhandling. And then you'll get locked up for panhandling. That day on the way to jail, they told me that I was going to do at least a week in county and then I would go to prison for four months because everybody was going to press charges because everybody knew everybody in this small town. It was like a town of a thousand people, right? And so everybody had known me for my whole life, you know, and so they want, they, they thought that this was a town trying to rally and try to help me. But. So I stayed in jail for that seven or eight days and I got out. But what they didn't know is that that morning before they got there, I remember sitting in that living room. Without any hesitation, I just opened the phone book and I remember just asking God, okay, if, if you're. It was like a moment of clarity. And I had several of these throughout my, my addiction. But it was like this one last moment of clarity and I, I said, I'm just going to call and ask for help. And so luckily enough, I had a job where I worked for the town. I was working actually for the water department. And so I had local government benefits, which is like state benefits, which were really good benefits. They paid for me to go to treatment. And so I called this number and it was an Alcoholics Anonymous number. And they said it wouldn't be good for me to start going to meetings. They preferred for me to go to inpatient treatment because of the level I was at with my addiction. So I did that and I talked to a group in Florida called the Watershed. I told them everything and they were going to fly me to Florida. All I had to do was get to the airport that day. They were giving me a 31 day program. And then, you know, help me either start over through like a sober living house or, you know, kind of go, go back to my parents house and try to start over. And I had, I had already done the going back to my parents, so I really didn't want to do that, but I didn't want to think that far ahead at that point. I just wanted to get in somewhere. Well, it didn't work because I got picked up and people were pressing charges. So I didn't get to go to that. I spent eight days in jail. And when I was released, the judge said, all right, we saw on the call log that you did call these places and if you still want to go, we'll let you go. But that's the only way that you won't go to prison is that you have to go get help. And so they released me for 24 hours into the care of my parents. So my parents kind of served as like a bail bondsman. And so for 24 hours I had to call and try to find a Place to go. I still had insurance because I wasn't legal. I wasn't really fired from my job as of yet. But when I called back to the watershed, they couldn't. They couldn't take me because my eight days were considered a detox. And so you have to be actively on drugs and drinking in order to be taken. I said, well, just give me a few minutes. I'll call you back. So I went, got high and started drinking again. And I called back, and they said, no, it doesn't work like that.

Nice try.

But I did call another place. There's a lot of recovery in Florida. There seems to be a lot of treatment centers in Florida, because the next place I called was in Florida, and it was called the Florida center for Recovery and told them the whole story, but in way more detail. From the time that I started drinking at, like, six years old, all the way through high school, I told him everything all the way up to this point. And they said, yep, we'll fly you down. Get your bail bondsman mama to drop you off at the airport. We'll pick you up. And so they told me to keep drinking because they didn't want me to detox on the flight. So my last drink was in Atlanta, Georgia, at the airport. Um, and I'm one of the 10% that. I think it's even less than that now. There's a 10% chance people go through treatment and they get it on their first try. And I got it on my first try. I never relapsed. But I went to Florida, and I spent 30 days there. It was 30 days that I will never be able to say was a bad day, because it was. It was tough. But they taught me how to, like, meditate. They taught me how to let go of the past. They taught me how to just reconnect with people there. And they shared the same common, you know, issues. I didn't have to worry about bills, and I hate to say it, but I didn't have to worry about my kids. I wasn't any good to them at the time anyway. So that kind of felt good. I could just focus on me and kind of be a little selfish, but it took being selfish to get through that. And then when I. When I got done, I kind of had like, a little graduation ceremony, but I made 30 days clean. And then I went and lived in Colombia in a sober living house. It just kind of started over from there, but it was tough.

Custody of.

Yeah, yeah, you know, the mama of my two sons, my first wife she said I could come back home. We were kind of separated at the time. We hadn't divorced yet. She said we'd try it one more time. And we did. We tried it for nine months. It didn't work. And that's okay. It wasn't supposed to. I was just a different man versus to what she was used to, if that makes sense. And so I filed for divorce and I fought to get custody of my two sons. I proved that I was just a better fit. I mean, it took some detective work on my part, but, I mean, it just. It just worked out. I'm not going to put her down or anything. It just worked out the way it's supposed to. And then me and Cameron and Christian, I got invited to come to church for an easter service in 2010 or 2011. We got invited to come to church, and I asked two questions of the person that was inviting me. I said, if they put their hands in the air, I'm out. We're not doing that. If they talk in tongues, I'm out. You can go ahead and just watch us walk out the door. And now every Sunday, we're speaking through the Word and we have our hands in the air. Just because I was ignorant, I didn't know what that meant, right. And. But I was putting up walls and I had to let my walls down. And. But that's where I met Kristen. You know, I remember sitting in an auditorium and I would sit through every service by myself, and the kids would be, you know, upstairs in kids ministry, and we, you know, I would serve so that I made them go to more than one service and they were fine with that. But.

And I remember those days. I was a pastor at that church. You came in those early days. And, you know, it's just. It's just been so amazing to see your journey, Eric and you and Kristen both. And. And now where you are now to where you were when you were, you know, just when you were in. In addiction, when you were just coming out of it. And like you said at one time, you felt worthless to your kids. And now you're one of the best dads I know, one of the hardest working guys. You're just an inspiration to the whole community. And. And then when God brought Kristen into your life, which was really one of the smoothest ways to ask a girl out I've seen at church, you basically pretended that you were the church welcome committee and stalked her, got her number and called, like, on behalf of the church, you know, like. Like you were like, you Were on staff, like, just making sure. And. And I think, Kristen, you said stuff to like, man, this church is really thorough with their guests because this guy keeps calling me.

I was on a girls trip, and he had. Actually, Dave, not to correct you, but I have to tell you this because it's a funny part of the story. Story. He sent me a Facebook message. That's how we first.

Yes, thanks.

Martin Zuckerberg.

He found me on Facebook. And, yeah, I told my girlfriends. I was like, y', all, this guy is really, really nice. I think he must be a part of, like, the welcoming committee at the church or something.

Oh, he wanted to welcome you.

Telling me.

Yeah, he told me he's gonna give.

Me a high five. And, you know, so it was funny. They're like, kristen, I think he's flirting with you. I don't think he's part of the welcoming committee at the church. But I was going through my own, you know, I guess battles not nearly as difficult as Eric was facing. But when we met here at the church, he. We were both serving, which I always tell people, that's why it's so important to get plugged in to serve at the church, because that's how you, you know, you meet people and connect with people, and that's what we were able to do in the kids ministry. We were both serving in the kids ministry. And. But I just. I was at a point in my life where I just kind of was lost. I was, you know, mid or late 20s, I guess, and just didn't know. I didn't feel like I knew what my purpose was, and I knew that the best thing I could do was to get plugged in at my church. And that's what I did. And, you know, lo and behold, that's where I ended up meeting my future husband. And so he had two years clean when we met. Yeah, two years. Right.

Two years clean. Because Dave gave me my two year chip and Kristen gave me my. Or. Kristen was there for my third. But yeah, I had two years clean when Kristen and I started dating.

Yeah. So. And we. I think we went out on our first date, or. He didn't tell me right away that he was in recovery, but, um, I remember when he did. I was obviously very scared and just of the unknown. I knew that he had two years clean. But two years is. When you think about it, it's really not that long. And I had actually had my own experience with addiction, not personally, but through somebody I dated years before Eric. But it did. It did a toll on Me, because I walked through the addiction with this person, right? And. And it was very hard. It was probably some of the hardest days of my life. My family got involved, just we tried to help and tried to be a support system to them. And I just saw the good and the bad of this process of addiction. And so in my head, I said. I told myself, I will never, ever, ever put myself in a situation like that again. And then God brings me Eric Kennedy. And so I'm like, okay, I've done everything right. I met him at church, you know, now you're telling me you're an alcoholic. And, you know, so it was a lot for me to grasp, but I prayed about it, and I knew that I really, really liked him. And you did my cry talking about it. I just saw something in him, and like Dave said, just the person he was at the church. I just felt like he was such a leader, and he was. He was such a good dad to his boys. And, you know, I just. Something told me, and I know it was a nudge from God that just. Just. Just, you know, wait it out and just give him a chance. And. And I'm so glad I did because, you know, it's just been a beautiful thing ever since. So while I didn't walk with Eric during the, you know, his hard days, I guess, you know, and his struggles, there have been things, obviously, that have. We've dealt with in marriage and in our relationship that we. We know, you know, could stem from alcoholism, his alcoholism, or his addiction. And, you know, I know one of the things, and I don't. Trying to figure out a way to say this without one of the things I've noticed and that I've actually just recently pointed out to him is, and we've walked through this together, and I feel like ever since we talked about it, it was. It's been a lot better. But I noticed that he. Some of that addiction and his personality can come out sometimes where he gets really excited about things, which is one of the things I love about him. But he gets excited about something like, as simple as a house project. And we'll do this big project at the house, and it turns out great. And he's so excited, and he's like, okay, what can I do next? You know what I mean? Like, okay, what's next? It's almost like, in the way I helped him understand, I told him, it's almost like you're looking for your next high. You know what I mean? Like, okay, what can we do next? And I hated to compare a house project to your next high. But that is what I saw it. I was like. Saw it as. I was like, you've got to take a step back. We can't keep doing house projects. Like, our house looks great. You know, I love that you're getting excited about these things, but you can't constantly be looking for, like, what's the next big thing we can do? You know what I mean? I hope that makes sense.

No, it definitely does. We hear that from a lot of couples, like, especially if someone. Once someone has recovered, you know. Cause it can be part of your personality where you are looking for that next kind of fix or high. Even if it's a good thing. I mean, fixing up your house is a good thing, but sometimes you can take it too far, you know, where it can take your time, your energy, your resources. And it's not necessarily something that needs to happen at that time. So it sounds like how you guys navigate that is by you just pointing it out in a loving way. And I think that's so awesome. And, you know, one thing, I think a lot of couples, especially if they have come through recovery, the spouse who's kind of trying to support their spouse, often really has this fear of relapse. And I don't know, have you guys ever dealt with that? And if so, how did you deal with that?

You know, that was my biggest fear at the beginning. Like, when I told you I was so scared about getting myself involved. Like, okay, what if. You know, what if he relapses when things get hard? And, you know, it was just a huge what if question. But honestly, that fear went away very fast. And I don't know if it's because I trust him, but I've seen him be part of difficult situations where he could have very well gone and gotten, you know, drunk or, you know, high or whatever, but. And I've seen him in situations where alcohol. Not recently, but more towards the beginning of our relationship where he was around alcohol, and he just. No, I'm good. You know, like. And. And so. I don't know. I just never have honestly feared that. Even seeing him go through some of his darkest times in our marriage, that's never been something I've feared. And I think just seeing what. Seeing his relationship with God and knowing his relationship with God, I think that helps because I know that in those tough times, he turns to him and not alcohol, and that's huge. That's huge.

Yeah.

That's so good. I think Ashley's probably wanting to ask how to make me want to get a high by doing house projects. She wishes that I had that desire to want to go from house project to house project. You know, she wouldn't be a big.

Fan of the tools.

Yeah, I'm just not good with tools like you guys are.

But, no, I'm not either. That's the problem.

He hires people.

I hire people.

But you're so good at it. You're so good at it.

I can see it. I just can't make it happen.

Well, you're a visionary.

I think one thing, too, that would be important to point out is that your personality, my personality, at least it multiplies by 10 whenever you walk in a life of faith and you walk in a life of sobriety. Because me, 10 years ago, wouldn't care about any of this. I mean, really would not care about any of it. I think that I feel my life now with wanting to not, like, be the yes man or please people, because I have fought through that. It's a life of wanting to feel accepted, but then trying to find that balance. Because the people that I surround myself with now, not one in my circle would be anybody that I would ever want to be around. Ten years ago.

Right.

Does that make sense? Like, my church friends, my Dave and Ashley's, my. Even Kristen is not the. The type of woman or the level of woman that I would try to earn that time. So my personality, like, if I took the Enneagram test 10 years ago, I don't know what the number would be, but I can tell you that the number now is a three, which is an achiever and probably overachiever. Because I want to please people. I want to please my wife. I want to please people in the church because I want them to see that for the last 10 years, I've been doing good, because for the first 30 years, I didn't. Does that make sense?

Absolutely.

Yeah. You're a new creation. The Bible says you're a new creation in Christ. And like, your very nature has changed in this. And I'm telling you, I know I didn't know you at the lowest point, but even just seeing the growth from the earliest days of sobriety to where you are 10 years in now has really just been an inspiration. And looking at you both and the family that you've created, you've got. You know, Kristen, you're such an amazing mom. You know, you love Cameron and Christian as your own, and you guys, of course, have a beautiful daughter together. And your family is just such a light and you're making such a positive impact in the church and in the community. And, you know, you're one of those stories that people look at maybe if they're in addiction right now or their spouse is in addiction and they look at what you guys have now and think, man, that just seems like going to the moon. That just seems like winning the Powerball. Like, it's this impossible thing. But, you know, I believe that it's possible for anybody. So just real practically, what would your advice be for that, that person, that couple right now that they're trying to navigate through some of the. Maybe the messier parts of recovery, or maybe the addiction is still there for one of the spouses.

A recent relapse or.

Recent relapse. Exactly. And, you know, I know that you, you know, you guys, you know, from both from personal experience and then from many people that, that you guys have talked to along the way, you know, you've seen a lot of different things. What would your advice be? Because that's the people who are listening right now. I think for many of them, that's why they're listening. They're like, you know, I'm in a tough spot. I don't know. I don't know how to keep fighting or I don't know what to do or, you know, I don't know if I should leave this relationship. I just. I need something. I need some guidance from somebody who's been there and has come through. And so what would your words be to a person like that?

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You have to be on the same page.

You have to be on the same page. And so I would do that. I would apply that same level of thought into a life of recovery with each other. Because at this point, it's not my recovery, it's our recovery. And we have to be on the same page. And so we are. She knows the pros and cons of my life now, and I know that I couldn't have asked for a better person to help with that restoration part of it. But it's because we're on the same page. Like, she's not drinking and drugging, and she's not going to bring that up as a part of, you know, if we have a dispute or if we have a disagreement, she's not gonna bring that up. She knows that that's, like, not something that's gonna help make the situation better. She never has.

That's true. And I think that as somebody who, you know, I don't drink. I mean, I haven't for years, but, you know, when I was younger, you know, that was something that was, you know, have a glass of wine here or there. But, you know, meeting Eric, somebody in recovery, just out of respect. Respect. Like, that's not something. That's not something that I do anymore, you know, just, you know, for more reasons than one, but, you know, being faith and just. But then the main thing is him. Out of respect for him. I think it's important. Yes, they're dealing with this issue of relapsing or, you know, addiction. But I think especially in a marriage, you've committed to that person through thick and thin, sickness and health. And I truly believe that addiction is a sickness. And I think it's important as a spouse. And people might be saying, oh, it's easier said than done. But remember, I have been there, and I did try to help that person. So I think that was God's way of preparing me to see, you know, the struggles that people that are dealing with addiction go through. But I think it's just important to give them a chance. And I think grace is important. There are things that come up now with Eric, and I that, you know, I sit back and I. You know, I remember, like, the stories about him in that trailer and just how far he has come. And, yes, that addictive personality comes out every now and then, but I just try to remind myself to give him praise and just to, you know, quote, unquote, love him through it. And so I think that's. That's just so important. You have to. That is your spouse. And I think it's important you stand behind them. You look up those numbers in the phone book, and sometimes it's tough love. It's saying, you have got to go do this or. Or, you know what I mean, like, give them that ultimatum in a way. You've got to go get help at this treatment center, whether it be in Florida or wherever, but. But just give them that support, because that's the only. They need to know that they have somebody rooting them on and cheering them on.

And I'm sure people that are listening to this have. Some couples may have tried this. This is like their fifth, sixth, seventh time. I know. You know, people are still in recovery and they're trying, so this is easier said than done, you know, so it's not gonna be perfect advice for everybody, but, I mean, it's all about love. I mean, if you love that person, you just. You have to love them through it all. It does not pick and choose who it attacks. It attacks all races. It attacks male and female. It attacks. I know people in the church that it just attacks. So it's not like just the. Just the people in certain states that live a certain lifestyle in certain ways. It attacks everybody.

Another thing that I always think about, too, when, you know, he brought me to a few AA meetings when we first started dating, and like Eric said, you know, that opened my eyes because I was able to see, you know, wow, this. I know a few of these people in here, and obviously, I won't share who they were or anything, but it was people I knew that I. You know, that addiction and alcoholism, it doesn't just affect the people that you see on the movies that are carrying around. Carrying around a brown paper bag, you know, by the liquor store. You know, it's everybody. It's teachers, it's lawyers, it's people within the church. And, you know, and, you know, Pastor Marty reminds us all the time that God doesn't view one sin any worse as being any worse than another sin. So I have to remind myself that I am a sinner, just like Eric is, and his sin of alcoholism isn't any Worse than my sin of telling a white lie or whatever it might be. You know, that God loves him just as much as he loves me. And I think it's important to love the lost people. And when you're battling addiction, you are lost. And Eric always says you have to find that higher power and that being God for us, you know, and it's just important. So I guess just love them through it. Give them grace, Pray, pray, pray for them.

And keep doing your home projects.

Keep doing your home projects.

Yeah, Home Depot can save a marriage.

Yeah, that's right.

You know, thank you so much for sharing all that. And before, before we go, I would love if you guys could share any resources with people who are currently battling an addiction that you just think are really good resources that could possibly be life changing for them.

One is if you aren't actively in a church together. Of course a church is a great resource. A small group with people that are your same age, maybe have kids, they're close to your age, that is also a great resource. But as far as meetings, if you want to go sit through a meeting with your spouse, AA is not going to kick you out. But if you, if there are certain Al Anon meetings that the spouse can go to who's not actually dealing with it, Al Anon meetings give the family kind of a background on what, what the person's going through, which is a great resource. But if your spouse or if the spouse is looking to go to a treatment center, I would highly recommend places like Florida center for Recovery if your insurance will allow. And what really stinks is like when people ask for help. It's the first question I have to ask is, and these are important questions, does the person that needs recovery, do they want it that you brought and yeah. And do you have insurance? And it stinks because treatment centers are expensive. But if you can do it and go through the, go through that, those are just powerful resources. And if you can't, you know, just start with meetings and maybe find a psychiatrist that you know, you can go talk to.

And another thing, like a lot of churches I know our church had something that Eric actually started many years ago called time for recovery. And so that's within the church. You know, it's for addiction. It's like a faith based which we, you know, Eric says all the time he, we couldn't have gotten through this without our faith and, or he couldn't have gotten through without his faith. So I highly recommend doing something faith based. So try to look for something within the Church. What is the other? The big one for Recovery.

Recovery.

Celebrate. Yes. So a lot. I mean, that should be pretty easy to find in an area. I know that because a lot of churches do that. So. So that's pretty. I think that's like nationwide, so.

And not done that. We're not closed off from the world. I mean, nobody's gonna have the same story we have. Some people are gonna have a greater story than we have. But we're, we're all always available. If they want to reach out and just need a different person to talk to besides the ones they're surrounded with, we'll be glad to help out.

Awesome.

And we can put that information in the show notes if people are interested in that. And that is so sweet that you guys are willing to be reaching out. And you all are such an inspiration. And like, I just want to reiterate what Dave said. Just watching your story unfold, it's just been, it's just been awe inspiring. And we just love you guys and we value your friendship and I just hope that you realize that you are an inspiration to so many.

You really, really are.

You guys are the real deal.

And we're, we're praying continued blessings for your beautiful family and cheering you on. And we know God's got great, great things to come. And for those who are listening, thank you guys for listening to this podcast. And like I said in the intro, this is just part one of a two part episode on addiction recovery and marriage. And next episode we're gonna be interviewing another very special guest who kind of, for more, the clinical side is gonna talk about some really, really helpful ways to overcome addiction. So you'll wanna tune in for that. But Eric and Kristin, thank you guys again. We love you.

Thank you.

Yeah, we love you.

All right, now we are ready to dive into our Q and A portion of the podcast. And we've got an awesome question.

Today she writes, just listen to episode 75 called who's yous Daddy? And I'm afraid my husband and I are falling into this child parent dynamic that we talked about on that episode. I work 12 plus hours a day and my husband only works about six to eight hours a day. While I'm away from home, I leave to do lists and errands for him. He is just so forgetful and can be so blind to what needs to be done around the house. These lists have been helpful and he gets way more done for us. He was always cared for and cleaned up after by his mother. My hope is that he'll begin to see what cleaning needs to be done and bills need to be paid without me having to tell him, is this unhealthy? How can I avoid this turning into a chores like assignment from a parent to a child? Thank you. All right, so it's a great question and a dynamic a lot of people can be in just with different work schedules. And we've talked to a lot of folks who have different work schedules. And because of that kind of the spouse who's at home more, you know, might just by nature being at home more might, you know, have more that needs to be done around the house. But how do you navigate this without one spouse being the one who's just assigning chores like a parent to a child? How do you tackle this as partners and not as the parent child that we talked about in that episode?

I mean, I think it's a great question, but I can tell kind of from her question, like the description of the dynamic right now. He's not exactly self motivated to do this and it doesn't sound like either he resents it. So I personally don't. I don't think a list is a terrible thing. I think where it gets really bad is if you're harping on the list, making him feel bad if you forgot one thing on the list. I think where we have to really watch the parent dynamic coming in is just being, you know, respectful in a spouse way, not like patting him on the head like, good job, little buddy, for completing your chores. I mean, that's where it can kind of become parent child. But I think if your husband is. Doesn't really seem to see the chores that need to be done because some people are just okay with laundry all over the floor or they're okay with, you know, and I can tell like she's wanting to.

And frankly, I'm that guy. Like, I'm. She's. She's very delicately trying to not throw me under the bus. I am the slob in our relationship.

I wouldn't say slob.

And oh my gosh, if the way that I lived before we got together.

Now, I will say it was rough. It was rough when you were on your own.

Yeah, it really, really was. And I have like just an amazingly high tolerance for things being unorganized and whatever. And she is the cleanest person I know. And so I've really tried to rise to her standard because I know that it's important to her. But even still, the weight of some of that still falls on her. Just because I'm not very good around the house. But you're willing to do whatever I'm willing to do whatever I'm willing to do.

And you'd rather me tell you exactly what needs to be done?

I'll just say, tell me what you need me to do. But even in that, I think we have, you know, we try to be careful for it not to just be like, here's your list, and go, you know, go do this.

And I think that's where this wife is really wise in trying to make sure that they're not falling into that. Because if it becomes like, you know, she's the one always calling the shots and always saying what needs to be done, that becomes very motherly. And you don't want that because you need to be partners. You need to be sharing the responsibility. And so, you know, I think it's important to have a conversation with your husband, if you haven't already, and say, like, listen, I give you these lists because I know that you may not see what needs to be done, but I want you to know that we're partners in this. And so maybe even ask him, like, is there something that I could be doing?

Exactly. I think that's huge. It might come to the point where it would be worth. It would be worth investing in a housekeeper, somebody that you can just give kind of very direct orders to in an employee kind of relationship. Because whenever, again, it's that fine line of making sure that even when we're kind of giving tasks to each other, it's never in a parent, child dynamic. It's never in a boss, employee kind of dynamic. It's like, hey, here's the stuff that just kind of needs to be done. You're home more this week. Could you help with this? I think it's also being sensitive to each other's love languages. I would guess that the person who wrote this message, their primary love language, might be acts of service. Like, when you do specific things for me, it makes me feel loved and protected by you. Find out what your husband's love language is and make sure that you're really working to meet that. It might not be acts of service. He might not care about you.

It could be words of affirmation saying, like, I appreciate you doing all this. Like, I know it's not easy. You know, I'm at work a little longer than you, but I know you're working hard at home, too. So it's not belittling the fact that he does work less in, like, a work environment than you. But like what he's doing is just as important, you know, Cause the home has to keep on going.

It has. Yeah. Or maybe his is physical touch and, you know, you surprise him with some sexy lingerie after he's been working on that list. And that'll motivate him to work even harder the next day. I promise you that.

So it's just important to have these conversations where you really can play to each other's strengths and make sure that there's no, there's just not this, you know, mother trying to tell her child what to do or even kind of like I said, like, you know, patting him on the head, like, oh, you know, you did the little things that.

Or punishing him in some way when.

He was punishing him if he didn't do it exactly how he wanted it to do.

You left all these things off a list of. That's where resentment can build and there has to be a lot of respect.

Exactly.

So I hope that that helps. I think just by nature of you asking this question, you. You and your marriage desire to have the right dynamic.

And that's.

That's always the first biggest step that, that we're aware of what could potentially be a blind spot. And we try to work through it together. So it's a great question. Keep the Questions coming at. Nakedmarriagepodcast.com youm can also follow us on Instagram avanashleywillis or on Facebook. We love connecting with you there. You if as well. Thank you so much for listening today. Thank you for leaving reviews. Thank you for being part of this online community. We really, really appreciate all of you.

That's right. And we will see you all next time.