Be the Change

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Hey, guys, welcome to the Naked Marriage Podcast, where we undress the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. We are Dave and Ashley Willis. I am so excited about this topic today because it will be a huge help to your marriage, just like it has been to ours. So let's dive in. Hey, guys, welcome to the Naked Marriage podcast where we undress the truth about sexual intimacy and lifelong love. And we are Dave and Ashley Willis. We're excited to talk about something really important today.

Yeah, it's a unique topic, but a really important one. And it's kind of like when you get to these turning point moments in your marriage, maybe you've come off a learning experience like the XO conference we just did. A lot of people were learning and we were learning from every single speaker. Sometimes in a moment like that, you're taken in and you're processing everything you've heard and you're trying to figure out what to do next. And I think that whether it's from a conference or some other situation or just a life transition, there are often moments in your marriage where you realize we need to make some changes. We're not where we want to be because we're always moving forward. Hopefully we're never just standing still. But how do we get there? How do we actually enact real changes that are going to take root and create new habits so that we're not just talking about wanting new things, and we're not just going to an event once a year, but then not doing really anything different about it because your marriage is going to be defined not just by those once a year kind of things, even though those are important. It's by what you do every day, what changes you enact and then live out every single day. And so how do you make those real changes? We're not talking about New Year's resolutions that wear up after a couple weeks. We're not talking about anything like that. We're talking about real, lasting change. So, sweetie, what are your thoughts?

You know, I don't think there's anything more demoralizing to a marriage than when you do come off these events and you go home and you feel overwhelmed and you don't do anything for a full year, and then you go back to that same event and feel like nothing. You know, we've talked to a lot of couples where they say that's kind of the reality, where they're like, I learned so much good stuff. I had so many good intentions. But I came home and we just felt overwhelmed. And we put the little booklet where we took notes on the shelf. And then we just decided to go back, which is great. And I just want to commend you guys. If you're going to events like that, if you're reading books together, if you are trying, that's great. I mean, you're on the right track.

Just listening to this podcast, you're doing.

Something right, and you're doing something. And just doing something is moving you in the right direction. So don't beat yourself up. Because I do think that that's kind of something that the enemy wants us to do. He wants us to feel like we can't make the changes. Like that might be good for so and so, but not for us. You know, I don't think we can actually do anything about it. My life's too busy. I have too much going on. I can't focus on that. You know, I think that we can all feel that way. So I just commend you for listening and for going and doing these things and trying to make your marriage better. But I wanna say this, and Dave, actually, at our recent conference, the exo conference, he talked about this, that it's important to take one or two things that you learn and. And try to apply that. You're gonna learn probably a hundred things at conferences. You're gonna learn a hundred things reading books, all these good things. But if you can take like one or two nuggets that you're like, we can practically apply that to our marriage. For example, if you are not currently taking, you know, a date night, and I don't even mean once a week, it could be even once a month, you know, just a regular date night. That is a practical next step you could take.

Yes.

And you can start small. Start with going out for an hour or two hours. I mean, just start somewhere. You don't have to have, like, the perfect date right out of the gate. You know, it's just like, start somewhere. Maybe it's that you don't talk regularly. Like, you don't have every day where you before bed, you know, connect for 30 minutes. That's very doable. And you can say, I'm gonna turn off the tv, I'm gonna put down my book, I'm reading, or whatever. Your normal routine is, that's doable. Talk for 30 minutes with your spouse.

It is, I think, one of the things that keeps us in kind of the paralysis of analysis. I've heard it called where you just sit still because you overthink it is because we're not willing to start small in things like Ashley said. So because a date doesn't look like an episode of the Bachelor where you're flying in a private jet to Aruba and then there's rose petals all over the beach somewhere and a candle at dinner and someone's singing. You think, well, we can't do that, so we're not gonna do anything. When you miss out on the fact that getting away and going on a walk, oh, yeah, and then ended up at Walmart, going shopping together with no.

Kids, it's like super real.

It can be magical. You know, take that, Bachelor. This is real life and this is good stuff. So you gotta be willing to start somewhere. But we live in a world where we compare our behind the scenes struggles to other people's highlight reels. And social media fuels this. We scroll through Instagram and Facebook and wherever you're scrolling, and we see these perfectly filtered images captured in someone's highlight reel moment. And we think, well, man, my life doesn't look like that and I don't even know where to start, so I'm just not going to do anything. And we keep scrolling and getting more frustrated and depressed and then feeling like my marriage doesn't measure up. Or we start resenting our marriage or resenting our spouse and feeling like, well, if he would just do this or if she would just do that, we could have that kind of life and family. So the first step oftentimes is to just refuse to play the comparison game, because God's plan for your life is masterfully unique. If you want to move forward, you cannot do it by getting caught in the comparison trap. Now we can learn from other people, I think, that have mentors in your life, have people that you can learn principles from that help you along. You know, the Bible says iron sharpens iron. Have people that sharpen you. But don't get caught in that trap of trying to replicate somebody else. Because again, God's plan for you is masterfully unique. And so instead of trying to do everything at once, like, we keep coming back to pick one thing, if your one thing is, I really want us to have better conversations, then carve out 30 minutes a day like Ashley said, you know, car after the kids are in bed, turn the phones off and say 30 minutes a day, we're going to talk with no interruptions. That 30 minutes a day over the course of a year will change your marriage by next year. Maybe your. Your goal is something financial. Like, we always argue about money, and that's a source of stress in our marriage. And even as you're talking about date nights, all I'm thinking about is ka ching, ka ching. You know, it's more money. If that money issue is a deal, say, this is what we're going to do. We're going to go through, you know, Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University, or we're going to go through a financial. A biblical, Biblically based financial course together. We're gonna work together. And instead of arguing about money, we're gonna be partners with this, and we're gonna do it God's way. And that's gonna be what we tackle first. Just pick one thing. That one thing will lead to other things. The domino effect over time will make a huge difference.

So true, sweetie. You know, something we talked about at XO recently at the EXO conference was, you know, having the right friends, the right voices who speak into your life, really affect your marriage. And so for some of you, your practical next step might be joining a small group at your church with other married couples who want to have a strong, godly marriage and just, you know, forming the right couple friends. That's kind of what we call it, couple friends. And this is something early on that we were challenged to do. And I don't know if we had it, like, right away. Cause we got married so young. Like, we were kind of the first of our friends to marriage.

We were babies.

We were babies.

I look back at pictures and I'm like, I had not even finished puberty. I looked nine years old in our wedding pictures.

It is funny to look back at those pictures. But, you know, one thing, I can't remember who challenged us to do this, but they were like, you know what? It'd be really good if you guys made some really good couple friends. And so we really made that our mission. We had 2 cents to our name. I was still in college. David just finished. He was working his first job. And, you know, we didn't have a lot of extra money, but we knew that it was important for the health of our marriage to have some time together, but to also have good friendships in our lives. And so a lot of times we would end up, you know, meeting some couples at church. But then we'd often do date nights at each other's. Houses. Like, I remember early on, we had friends, Becky and Jason, and we would just trade off going to each other's houses, cooking dinner. And so it was like a cheap date, but we were enjoying each other's company. And it was so nice to be with other Christian couples and just doing life together and also even sometimes sharing the struggle. And I think that that is something that doesn't take a lot of money, per se. But also it's an enjoyable next step too. It's not like pulling teeth, spending time with sweet friends. I think some of the next steps, we're like, I don't wanna do that. The conversation is gonna be awkward because we' dealing with this and that, and that needs to happen. Fun steps too.

And the deep conversations, you don't have that on the first double date, you know? Well, I mean, you can start going there, but trust takes time, just like with any relationship. But when you have that kind of trust built up with other friends, it's beautiful to be able to. In a safe space where there's not gonna be gossip or judgment or any of that. To be able to share those things, but then to laugh together a lot, too. So I think. I think one of the biggest next steps, goals that couples should have is more laughter. I think a lack of laughter. Just kind of like your car has a dashboard with warning lights that pop up when your fuel gauge is low or whatever. If your marriage had a dashboard, I think there'd be a warning light for a lack of laughter, for a low measure of laughter. Because joy brings us together. Laughter is intimate and it's binding and it's healthy. And even in the struggle seasons, even in the seasons where you're working hard and life's hard, you gotta find reasons to laugh. And that might just be a goal. You say out loud, say, I want us to laugh together every day. I want us to find a funny show that we like and sit there and laugh together every day. I want us to, whatever that looks like, bring more laughter in. And that's a goal I never hear people talking about, But I am convinced, I'm just so convinced it will enrich the quality of your marriage and your life. Like few things, you know, the Bible says the joy of the Lord is our strength. There's more to joy than just laughter. But, you know, laughter is fun. It's good.

It is. And it really helps us. When you have more laughter in your marriage, it's gonna help you to ease in more to the hard conversations, because that's the Truth. And we're gonna talk about kind of the hard part of this is that, what about when you're having those hard conversations together? Maybe your spouse or you confess something, you know, and it's something that's hard. You know, we've talked very openly on this podcast about our own struggles. God, for your battle with anx and depression. Dave struggled with pornography early on in our marriage. And when those kind of issues come out, it can be hard to discuss that. And you can kind of feel like, I don't even know what to do next. But what I find is you just, again, have to pick kind of one thing to do. For example, when the porn issue came to light with Dave, we knew that the first thing we needed to do was remove our computer from the basement and get some filtering software on any device. Now, this was pre, like, iPhone days, but if it happened, it's a different world. Exactly. But if it was happening today, I would, you know, we'd get filtering software. We actually still do have filtering software on all our devices. It's just something we do in our home, even on our kids devices. And, you know, you put that accountability in place. And I felt like for us, when we were going through that struggle, as awkward as it was to have those conversations, and even for me to check in with Dave and say, how's it going? Did you feel tempted today? Did you do something today? You know, it was good to know we were moving forward. And I think when you can focus on, okay, we are taking steps, it's not gonna, like, change everything overnight, but we are moving towards the goal. We're moving towards more transparency. We're moving towards healing. And I know for me personally and Dave can speak to this too, it just felt good to know that we were more kind of driving it, so to speak, towards healing and not allowing this sin to overtake our marriage. And I think that when you keep on keeping that as your focus and praying about it, I mean, prayer is essential to moving forward, especially after something has been confessed and you're trying to make changes in your marriage. You know, keep on praying individually and together, and keep on focusing on the fact that you are moving forward. It might be a very small step forward, but when you choose to make a small step forward each day, you're moving drastically forward.

Yeah, the right direction matters a whole lot more than the pace. Yeah. Don't worry about moving slowly, moving about. Worry about not moving at all or moving in the wrong direction, being stale.

Yeah.

But that brings up a question that we get A lot from those of you who write us on Facebook or email us at, which you can do, by the way. Davewillisarriagetoday.com Ashleywillisarriagetoday dot com come straight to us. We'd be happy to correspond with you or you ask us this at live events, but when one spouse feels like, well, I'm trying to make changes, I'm trying to make changes and my spouse doesn't, you know, what do you do in that situation where one spouse feels like, I feel like I'm in this alone, I want to move forward, but he or she, they seem either content to just keep things where they are, even though I'm miserable with it. I mean, what are your thoughts on that? It's a. It's a deep struggle that a lot of marriages, a lot of people feel like that's where they are.

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I think that the kind of marriage God wants us to have is a love seat marriage, where we're both in the love seat doing life together. We're unified. Doesn't mean we have uniformity per se. We're different people, but we're trying to get through it together. And then you have people who might want to be in the me seats, the individual seats, where they're just kind of together but not really in every way. Their hearts are kind of hardened towards each other. They want to stand up for their rights, and they're just kind of living life side by side but not really embracing it. And they're kind of fighting each other in a prideful way. And then you kind of have the dynamic Dave is talking about where one spouse is in the love seat, desperately trying to fight for their marriage, but they're alone in that love seat because their spouse is choosing to be in the me seat because they just. They think things are fine. They don't want to change, and they really don't want to humble themselves and come to their spouse and try to work on things.

And maybe in their perspective, you know, they feel like, well, my spouse is just trying to make me into something I'm not exactly, or my spouse is. I mean. Yeah. And so then there's that dynamic where one spouse is like, no, I just want. I want our marriage to be all it can be and it's not. And the other spouse is like, but you're just trying to change me or judge me. Like, this is me. This is me. Or the dynamic where the one spouse recognizes, well, yeah, I need to do this or I need to stop that. And they promise to, I'm going to. I'm going to. And that situation is so hard because we can never build trust or intimacy based on our promises, ever. We can only build trust and intimacy based on our actions consistently over time. Jimmy Evans at the EXO conference said just a beautiful truth about trust. He said, trust is built in drops, but it can be lost in buckets.

Yes.

And so when we break our spouse's trust in any way, it's like dumping out a bucket full of trust. But when we build trust or intimacy, promises don't put a drop in the bucket. Only your actions do. And so one action at a time, over time, those drips will add up in that trust bucket, which I just thought was a great metaphor. So if you're the spouse who is promising to do things, simple. Follow through. Yeah, follow through. You know what? Stop making promises and start making actions. And we either find a way or we find an excuse. So if something really matters to you, if your marriage really matters and you've promised to start making making it a priority, or just stop looking at porn or whatever it is, you've got to take action. You've got to take action to keep moving forward tenaciously in that same direction. And if you're the spouse who feels like you're doing what you can and you're encouraging growth in your marriage, but your other spouse is not, they promise to change and they don't, or they just seem apathetic. You know what I would say? Continue to pray. Ashley has said, continue to do all you can to be the kind of spouse, to model the kind of behavior that you want to see in them, not through, like, just nagging and criticizing, because that rarely ever works. But find something to praise, encourage that. Start small, Find something they're doing right. Hone in on that, and really just thank them for that. Praise them for that. I think that we can get in this negative rut where we're so frustrated that all we start seeing are the negatives in our spouse. But if we'll change our mindset to say, you know what? I want to start focusing on the positive. Bible says, Philippians 4. 8. Fix your mind on that which is good and excellent and praiseworthy. And if we'll do that in our marriages, I think it'll make a big difference as well. Not to just blindly put our heads in the sand and pretend like the struggles don't exist, because we have to talk about those. But let your default mode be one of encouragement and one of affirmation. Right.

And I think, too, just like Dave said, the person kind of who's stuck in that me seat, who just for whatever reason, doesn't think they need to change, and you've made the promises and you start to follow through. I would just say for both, really focus on keeping your promise. Even the small things. Like, I really struggle with being on time, and it's something that Dave and I know it's rude, and I mean, we can make excuses all the time. This is something minor. But it really bothered Dave, like, years ago. I mean, I would. And I'm not talking a little late, like, really late.

It would bother me so much because I'm like, it's disrespectful. And men. Men. I've heard it said, you know, cars run on gasoline. Men run on respect.

Yes.

And for me, even though she didn't mean it this way at all.

No, it wasn't my intention, but I.

Took it as she know it matters to me that we're gonna be someplace when we say we're gonna be. To me, it's like a character issue. You show up when you say you're going to. And so for her not to consistently knowing that this matters to me is disrespectful. And I took it very personally, and it wounded me. I took it as this just personal, defiant, intentional disrespect, which, of course, it wasn't. You know, Ashley's just. Her just flow is different than mine.

Yeah, totally.

And so we've kind of learned to kind of appreciate the ebb and flow of how we're different. And I think trying to not take things personally in marriage is so important. And even when it feels personal, a lot of times it's not. Your spouse believe the best in them. Believe they're not trying to intentionally hurt me. When your husband leaves his dirty underwear on the floor, he's not trying to hurt me.

He really didn't even think about it.

Intentionally disrespect you and make. Even though guys pick up your underwear, it's gross. But when he leaves it, it's not this intentional slap in the face or expectation that, oh, my wife's my maid. He just does that. If he lived alone, that would. He would do it just doesn't bother him. And so you guys as a couple have to work through these differences.

And I will tell you, and years ago, and I've gotten a lot better at it. I just realized how important it was to Dave. And I really see his point of view. I see, like, yes, I get where that could be taken as disrespectful. And I really do my best. I'm much better at being on time and sometimes even early. And I know I'll, like, surprise him completely if I'm, like, early, but I just really try to focus on that because I know it's important to him. And you know, in this the same way Dave, I mean, like, you're talking about the laundry. He used to do that. And sometimes he still does here and there. And do you know what? Like, it used to bother me. It didn't even bother me anymore. Like, I know that literally because I knew him in college and I saw his dorm room and I knew how they lived. And Mark, if you're listening, you know how messy you guys were. It totally, like, there was like. It would be like, the kind. Smell your laundry. If it smelled decent, then wear it again. And who knows how many times you've been wearing that thing. But, you know, so I know it doesn't really bother him. And it wasn't a slap in my face. Like, he wasn't trying to hurt me. I've come a long way, but I will say this. Like, just this morning, he took all the laundry to the laundry room. So it's really about. It's kind of twofold. It's about seeing. Choosing to see the best in each other and assuming that their intentions are good. But it's also doing your best to serve one another. And if it's important to your spouse, you wanna try to see it as being Important as well. Even if you don't understand it, even if you really are like, I don't get that. It's just out of respect for them. You're like, you know what? I'm gonna serve them in this way because I know it means a lot to them.

Right? It's the golden rule. It matters to them. It's something that they love, appreciate, and so I want to do that for them. So that brings up the question, well, if we start off on the right foot, but then all of a sudden it starts feeling like another failed resolution and we slip back into the norm, the old habits. What do we do? You got to realize that you got to create a new norm. And that takes time. And you know, we're not wired up as human beings to change easily. Change always comes with struggle. And so don't take it as a failure when you do slip up sometimes, but just take it as an opportunity to let that be kind of like a little wake up call. Not to shame you, but to say, oh, wow, I'm slipping back into this, or we're getting back into some old habits. And so you have to monitor and adjust. We've heard it said, you've got to constantly monitor the situation and adjust accordingly. And communication, like in all things in marriage, communication is a huge part of this. If you're checking in daily, if you're talking daily, how are we doing? You know, what's working, what's not, what do we need to adjust? Those daily conversations will really keep you heading in the right direction.

Absolutely. I love monitor and adjust. I know we say it all the time, but it's just the truth. I mean, cause things are always changing. We are all changing. Like all of us every day are changing in some way. We're getting older. But even just some of our perspectives, and so we always have to come back together. I mean, even. Gosh, this morning before we were on this podcast, Dave and I were talking about different things and just, you know, what do we need to do this week to really pour into our own marriage? You know, And I know some of you listening are like, you mean it doesn't just happen naturally? And it's like, no, we all have to work on it. Every single one of us has to work on our marriage. Absolutely. I mean, I think you form good habits where it feels more natural, but if we just decide to be on autopilot, it's not gonna work itself out. Like, we have to be intentional. And you know, I was reminded about this. We've mentioned that we just came off the Exo Conference, which was at Gateway Church. It was just so awesome. And it was simulcast at a lot of different places, and Dave and I spoke there, but we also got to listen to some amazing speakers. And there was one speaker that just. First of all, it made me kind of have a little shock going on because he shared the story of it was Michael Todd, right? Am I saying that right?

Yes. Pastor Michael Todd of Transformation Church in Oklahoma. Amazing community.

I mean, just amazing. Really cool. Well, he shared the story of where Jesus goes up to the blind man and he picks up some dirt, and then he says, spits on the dirt and then rubs it on the blind man's eyes. But Michael Todd took it a step further, and he literally had dirt there. And then he spit, like, four loogies on it.

Yeah, they were enormous.

Rubbed it together. And the whole. You guys, I. Oh, I'm about to die. I am not just thinking about it. Like, visually, I'm literally like, I'm gonna hurl. Okay, Watching this. But it was very powerful because he did that. And then he rubbed it together. And then I think he had his brother come up on the stage. And bless his brother's heart, his brother allowed him to wipe this on his eyes. And he was just showing the visual. But the point he was making, besides the whole shock of the story, and I' look at it the same again, the point he was making is sometimes it's messy before the healing. And that is so true in marriage. And just, you know, we've been married almost 18 years, and I can certainly attest to that. Sometimes it gets uglier before it gets better. And I just wanna challenge you, too. If your next step is counseling, which for many of you, it is. And marriage counseling, Christian marriage counseling is amazing. Maybe it's individual counseling, but when you're bringing out the yucky stuff that you're dealing with, it's kind of like that dirt with the loogies on it. Because you're bringing the yucky stuff to the surface. Maybe the miscommunication you've had sin in your life, maybe some resentment you've had towards your spouse. It's messy. And when you're bringing that out those first few sessions and bringing that out, it can feel like this was a bad idea. It can feel like we're not getting along, like we're having more arguments than ever before. We're having to talk through all this stuff. But I wanna challenge you. It's because it's just like Pastor Michael Todd said It's messy before. Before you see the beautiful healing. And in a way, you know that story of Jesus healing the blind man, I just love that because it really is that way in our marriage. And so when he was talking about that, I just, it reminded me of us getting through the porn struggle, of us getting through the four year battle with anxiety and depression. And there's many other things that I'm sure we'll share in the podcast to come about our own struggles. You know, it is messy before the healing, but just because it's messy doesn't mean it's not blessed. Okay. And so there's blessing in the messing, so to speak. And I think that we just need to remember that. Cause it's so easy to get discouraged when you feel like this isn't working right away. You know, I think we're so, you know, we're just as human beings, we want stuff to just fix itself quickly and we have a hard time with patience. And I think we have to be patient. And God is really teaching us a lot in the midst of the mess. And there's things that we can't learn unless we're in that midst of the mess. And so I just wanna challenge you. If you came off, maybe you came off the exo conference or you just read a marriage book together, you just did a devotion together and you're like, it's kind of messy right now. I just wanna say you're in the right place. Keep on working through that mess, keep on doing what you're doing and don't.

Be discouraged by it. Don't say, well, this is a sign that nothing's working because it's messier than it was before. The mess is part of the progress.

Yes.

And so we're. Don't be discouraged by it. God is with you in that mess and he'll bring, as I've heard it said, a message out of your mess. It'll become part of your testimony. And so if you want to see that powerful teaching from Pastor Michael Todd, our sessions from XO Jimmy Evans, the.

Whole deal, plus so many great talks.

An enormous library of marriage enriching content, including the videos we made to go along with our new book, the Naked Marriage, which is we made a discussion video that went along with every single chapter, which you can watch together with your spouse, you can do it in small groups. There's so much content on a new streaming service, it's called XO now, which is part of Marriage Today's resources that we make available to you guys. There's a subscription that you can get. All the information is at this site. Xomarriage.com Now Xomarriage.com is the kind of a one stop shop for how to register for our conference. Our upcoming events which include marriage conferences in San Diego, Houston, Pittsburgh, Minneapolis, Austin, Rockford, Illinois, outside Chicago and Canton, Ohio, and next year's XO Conference, which is going to be live at Gateway Church's Southlake campus and simulcast all over the world as it was this year. So exomarriage.com, check out that site. There's so much good stuff there. Guys, thank you so much for being a part of this podcast, this, this online digital community to build stronger marriages. Sweetie, any, any final words?

I just want to say keep on going. Keep on going. Keep on doing the work. Keep on listening. Keep on encouraging each other, telling each other how thankful you are. And know that God is working in that man.

Can't end better than that. That's great stuff, guys. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time on the Naked Marriage Podcast.