Carrying Each Other's Burdens

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Hey there and welcome back to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast we uncover God's design for lifelong love. And we are continuing in our series of What Is a Naked Marriage? And today we have a great episode for you.

Not only do we have a great episode, we have a free gift for you. That's right, totally free, fits with everybody's budget. Uh, our very popular 31-day marriage devotional is available as a free download. So for 31 days, you and your spouse can read through this together, talk about it. It's going bringing you closer to God and each other. The link to that is available below in the show notes. And don't miss out on that. I think you'll really enjoy it. It's only like a minute of reading per day, so it's not a huge commitment, but I really think it could make a big difference in your marriage, especially for those who might be dealing with some burdens in your marriage right now, which is what today's episode is all about. So let's dive in. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Oh, I feel like this is one of the most important episodes we're going to do in talking about having a naked marriage, and that is bearing burdens. You know, uh, one of the greatest privileges of being a husband and being a wife is that you get to be a burden bearer. You know, it's true, we're called to be burden bearers as Christians, but I think sometimes we forget that as husband and wife, as a Christian husband and wife, we are each other's main burden bearers. And so, um, you know, it's important that we do this well.

There's a verse in the Bible that I love, and it's not just specifically exclusively to marriage, but never make the mistake that it's not a marriage verse if it doesn't have the word marriage in it, because every word of scripture is to be lived out in all of our lives. And if you're married, then man, every part of your life is connected to your marriage. So this is definitely a marriage verse for married people. It says, "Bear each other's burdens," or carry each other's burdens, "and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ." So a big part of following Jesus and just having the mindset of a Christian is carrying the burdens of others. And in marriage, more than any other relationship, we're called to do that. Because the moment you get married, just like we talked about in the finance episode, it's no longer his and hers, it's ours. Our money, our debt, our everything, but our burdens in particular. So your spouse should never ever go through any burden of any kind without your full support right there beside them to say like, we're gonna walk through this together. It might be a diagnosis that one of you has, but it's a burden that both of you will share. You know, it might be a job loss that one of you has, but it's a burden that both of you will share. So whatever the situation is, find a way to walk through it together. And we've had the opportunities through our marriage to do that. Ashley has very wisely said that a strong marriage rarely has two strong people at the same time. It's usually a husband and wife who take turns being strong for each other in the moments when the other is weak. And we've experienced that. You know, there have been times that sometimes we're both feeling weak and we have to look at each other like, okay, whose turn is it to be strong? 'Cause we can't both be weak at the same time. But, uh, we've done that for each other through— gosh, early in our marriage, you know, and I was walking through recovering from pornography, Ashley was the strong one that, uh, that, that really was moving us forward, and I would lean on her. As she was walking through postpartum depression and anxiety, I was the stronger one, and I did my best to be a safe place for her to land. I've had health challenges where she was the strong one. We've had different periods of just all different kinds of things, or we just, we carry the burden together. And the moment you carry it together, the burden gets lighter. And that's the beautiful part about marriage.

You know, I think sometimes we fail to carry each other's burdens because we feel so burdened, and maybe we're blinded by our own hurt, you know. And I think a lot of times when we, we are in a spot where we feel extra vulnerable, we're so inundated with our own pain and our own things that are going on that we are like, I don't have the strength to be there because I can't understand my spouse's pain. Like, I don't have enough bandwidth to understand it. But I think we're looking at it wrongly because we don't have to understand the burden, like all the ins and outs of it, to just be there. 'Cause really, it's not even about what we say as much as just our presence, right? And the reason I'm talking about this is like, and we'll go into this deeper in another episode, but, When I was going through my anxiety and depression, which wasn't just postpartum, it turned out to linger a lot longer than that. But I think, and actually I think I was having symptoms of that long before I had babies, but I just didn't even know what it was because sometimes you get so used to how you're living that you think it's normal. And it wasn't until I was, you know, I had a child and was really in the throes of postpartum depression and then the lingering, the years that lingered afterwards that I realized what I was dealing with. But I remember when I was I finally, finally shared it with Dave, because I kept it inside for way too long, 'cause I was so scared that he would be scared of my burden. Like, 'cause I was so scared of my burden, and I was so disgusted with myself, and just so weighed down by it. I believed the lies that the enemy was whispering to me that it was just too much for my husband to bear. And, but when I, out of desperation, finally told him, I, you know, I could see the look on his face, which was just full of compassion because he, I could tell you truly was so sad that I had felt so alone and had been dealing with all of this anxiety and depression for so long, and that I believed these lies about myself and about our marriage and about Dave, and really had like diminished even your capacity to bear the burden, even without giving you the option to. But even in that, Dave gave me such compassion. But I remember you telling me later on, kind of as we walked that road of my anxiety and depression, and you helped me find the courage to get help, I remember you telling me, listen, I don't understand I really don't know what it feels like. And I don't understand why you would think that, that you would think that I should leave or that you think that you're not a good wife or a good mom because you're having depression. And I don't understand the depth of your sadness or the amount of panic that you feel, but I do know that God does. I do know that God gets it and God never allows us to experience something that we can't get through with his help, right? Like that's the caveat, it's with his help. And we're gonna, all of us are gonna go through really hard times. I mean, Jesus said, "In this world you will have trouble," but he says, "But take heart, I, Jesus, have overcome the world." And Jesus has overcome, and so we can overcome with his help. And the reason I share that about not having to understand all the ins and outs of your spouse's pain, or sin, or the struggles of their family, or all the ins and outs of what they're facing, I say that because I think that we do pull back sometimes because, we feel like we're inefficient somehow or unqualified because we can't understand it. But really all your spouse needs is you to be in their corner, is to know that you care, to know that you are with them, to know that you can be strong while they're feeling weak. And for Dave, his presence and his faith that sometimes, like, 'cause my faith was weak, you know, at times where I'm like, God, what is going on? You know, like things like that, that's what we're looking for. We don't need you to fix it all, right? A lot of times we just need your presence. We just need the encouragement of knowing you believe that God is greater, and you believe that we are gonna get through this together. And you kind of stand in that gap as we're getting through the burden. And so don't believe the lies of the enemy that you need to know how to fix it, or that you need to understand all of it, and if you don't have those two things, then that you can't be a burden bearer, because that's just such a lie. Like you are called to be the burden bearer simply because you are called to be their spouse. And so you're their person, you know?

And sometimes, like Ashley was saying, just the ministry of presence, just being there is the main thing. Don't psych yourself out. Like, I don't know what to say. I don't have expertise in this area. You don't have to have expertise. You don't have to have a magic wand. You're not your spouse's savior. Only God can do that. But you are your spouse's husband or wife and partner and best friend, and you're uniquely qualified to stand by their side and just be there.

Yeah.

To let them know through your presence and through your words, we're gonna get through this together. I'm not going anywhere. And we're gonna find help. Right. If this is something bigger than we can do on our own, then we're gonna reach out for help. Here at XO Marriage, we have a team of mediators. They could jump on an initial call with you. They could do a full-day intensive with you and your spouse to help you work through this particular burden, whatever it is. You can go to exomarriage.com and get all of the information on that. Maybe it's meeting with a counselor in your area. Maybe it's calling, you know, friends or family, depending on the nature of the burden. You don't have to isolate yourself or yourselves in it.

Right.

You know, so sometimes it takes the community coming around you. And that's why God designed community. You know, if you're part of a home church, that's why God designed the church that we could bear one another's burdens together. But certainly in marriage, like never ever feel like you need to walk alone or never let your spouse walk alone. So let's talk about a few examples of, you know, what that burden can look like. So we've shared some already about, We've alluded to our own, and with anxiety and depression that Ashley just talked about, I think that's one many people can relate to. What about just, I don't know, like a prolonged season of disappointment for that husband who feels like, I can't get it together, I can't get a job that makes me feel like an adequate provider, I don't like the work that I'm doing, and then he brings that home, feeling like a failure, wanting to provide for his family, feeling like for him to even confide in his wife that he's feeling like a failure, he's gonna look even smaller in her eyes. And so he carries this burden and then that becomes, that can lead to depression, that can lead to self-medicating through unhealthy means. And if we don't share burdens in a healthy way, then we medicate them usually in unhealthy ways.

That's true.

So what about a situation like that? You know, what can, In that situation, it's the husband. What could a wife do to wreck, 'cause wives tend to be more intuitive. You tend to see when a husband's carrying something faster than we husbands pick up on the clues. So you've helped me see I'm carrying burdens before I've seen it sometimes. What would you say to the wife who wants to help?

I'd say to the wife, if you see that something is off with your husband and you're like, he looks bogged down, or maybe he just has an underlying tension, all the time, no matter what's happening, you just, there's like an edge to his voice, there's an edge to the look in his eye, I would go to him, I would encourage you to go to him and just say, listen, tell me what's going on. I can tell that you're not quite yourself, and I just miss you, and I wanna help you. Is there anything that I can do to help you? And if he kind of knee-jerk reaction is like, what are you talking about? Nothing's wrong. I'd push him on it. And I would say, "No, listen, I know you. You're my husband, I know you. And this isn't to say something's wrong with you or I'm judging you or anything. I'm just concerned because I can sense the edge in your voice. I can sense you're sad, like there's something going on, and I'm here for you. Like you can tell me anything, you know, you can trust me with anything." And just really reassure him and go in with curiosity. Like we always say, go with curiosity, not criticism. And just say, hey, you know, I wanna help. Like, you know, put it out there. I wanna help. And husbands receive that. If your wife comes to you and says, you are on edge, I'm concerned, like believe her. Like what does she have to gain by saying that other than trying to help you, right? So when your spouse comes to you concerned, believe them. But I would say too, husbands, one thing you said, you said, you know, as a husband, you think I'm probably gonna look smaller in her eyes. If she knew how sad I was, if she knew what a failure I felt like. And really, that's a lie from the enemy, because the truth is, the more vulnerable you are with your wife, the more she actually feels closer and safer and more secure with you. And so it goes against what most men assume of women, right? We don't see you as weaker. In fact, I mean, we see this over and over again when we work with couples, we actually lean in and we're like, oh my gosh, he trusts me with this information. He's like bearing all and showing me when he's feeling weak, wow, like that's a secure person that I can trust. Do you see what I'm saying? And I remember years ago, you found yourself in that kind of season. You were feeling just frustrated all the time. You felt like your body, it was more about your body than anything, like your body was not cooperating with you.

Yeah, certainly, yeah. When I was going through that initial diagnosis, diagnosed with this thyroid disorder called Hashimoto's, I didn't even know what a thyroid was. It's in your neck, if you're interested, apparently, and it does a lot when it doesn't work. Um, I just felt so out of whack for so long. Ashley was so patient and tender. I knew I was coming across as like harsh and so moody, and instead of her snapping back at me, matching my energy, which she had the right to do, but she didn't. And I think this is where a lot of couples get in trouble, is like one spouse is frustrated, the other spouse is also dealing with their own stuff And so instead of leaning in with tenderness and compassion, they're like, what do you have to be so angry about? My life's just as hard as yours, maybe harder. I'm doing this, this, this, and this. And it becomes a competition of who has a bigger right to be in a bad mood. And that's just not helpful. That's just not—

It's maddening, right?

It is, yeah. So many couples get in this just toxic cycle of like, well, you don't have any right to be, you're being this or that, and I'm dealing with this over here. You gotta lean in with tenderness always. And yet you are dealing with stuff, everybody is, but we still in marriage, we serve each other even when we ourselves are wounded. And that, man, that's the key. And then there are gonna be times when you're wounded together. Like, you know, it's just, you know, for, you know, Ashley and I, for these past couple years have been amazing in a lot of ways, but, Man, it's been hard in a lot of ways too. It's been— we've been through a season where there's been a lot of unpredictability in terms of just finances, in terms of other things. We've gone through some, you know, some personal loss. You know, we've had some, you know, relationships go sideways. So we had, you know, a person who'd been like a great friend of ours that we felt like was, you know, misrepresenting us and kind of—

Yeah.

Turned against us and trying to turn others against us, which was so just surprising and jarring. And maybe you've gone through things like that in your own life, and it's hard to know how to navigate those kind of burdens that you want to fix it and you just don't know how to fix it. And when you try to fix it, you tend to sometimes make it worse. And sometimes you have to just step back and let God fight your battles and say, Lord, you know, help us to live live in a way that honors you and just let you fight our battles and we'll trust you with all the outcomes. And that takes faith. And when you read scripture and you read Psalms, there are times where David's crying out to God with stuff like that. Like, God, I'm being attacked or I'm being misrepresented or whatever. And then ultimately he lands on, I'm gonna trust you, Lord. I'm just gonna trust you. And there's such peace together. And sometimes bearing each other's burdens is as simple as saying, Lord, help us together to just trust you that you're in control. You're going to make all things right. You're in your timing going to bring things out to the light. If there's anything in me that's not pleasing to you, Lord, just bring that to the light. I want to deal with it. I don't want to live with the blind spots. Like, show me what I need to do a better job of. But help me also trust you when I'm walking through something that feels unjust or it feels confusing. You know, right now, like very recently, someone we know and love well is, we just found out is caught up in an extramarital affair. And we're just heartbroken over that. We're trying to help navigate. We're trying to help both spouses really work together and find healing. You know, and it's messy and it's hard, but it's a weight that we're honored to help carry. And I think when you love somebody, helping carry their burden shouldn't feel as much like a burden as it should feel like a privilege. Like, yeah, this is hard, but that you will let me come beside you and share a burden, that is an intimate act of trust. And I'm honored to do it. And so when someone allows you to carry a burden with them, don't take that for granted because it is an intimate act of trust and you have just a great deal of influence at that point in their lives. And so don't drop it, you know, like continue to walk with them.

Right. I love that you shared that because that is something, you know, those are two people we love that this horrible, you know, thing has happened to. And we're together trying to help them bear that burden as people who love them and trying to give them advice on their next steps and hopefully recovering from that affair and restoring their marriage. But I think there's times in marriage where one of you really feels called to help another person, okay, outside of your marriage, bear a burden, but it feels unbalanced and a little bit tricky to the other spouse. And like, I'll give an example. Like, um, we've worked with couples before where, uh, they were in a small group, and one of the small group, you know, person— like, one of the people in the small group started sharing with a mem— you know, one of the couples, like, like, let's say there's the wife about going through marriage problems. And I remember in particular in this situation, it was the husband of one of the couples in the small group who started sharing with the wife of another couple in a small group that they were having marriage difficulties, which— that's out of bounds right there.

Yeah, but, um, that's a good thing to bring up. Boundaries are huge. Sharing burdens with— yeah, that opposite sex dynamic. Sorry to interrupt, but that's just so such a huge point to point out.

But I think this wife was like, oh, but this is our small group, this is a couple in our small group, I could give the husband advice from another wife's standpoint, and I could help him. But what ended up happening is they ended up finding, you know, having more and more conversations that were romantic in nature. This is over a period of time, and they ended up having an affair. And, you know, it's just been a mess. Thankfully, those people, um, the ones— the couple that we knew ended up getting help and they have recovered from that affair.

Yes, we were not the, the reason their marriage was saved, but we were, we were friends who came alongside them and just tried to encourage them.

And but like what happened there is that she felt this calling to help bear this burden.

We just got started with good intentions.

Exactly.

But with, with foolish boundaries.

Exactly. So like some really healthy boundaries are that you should never put yourself in a position where you are trying to bear a burden with someone of the opposite sex who's not— you're not your spouse or a relative. Or a relative, exactly. And so it's just tricky. I know some of you are going to disagree with us on this, but you guys, we do this for a living. We see affairs happen like this time after time where it started so innocently and really with good intentions to help a person, but your guard comes down because you're having these very intimate conversations, and before you know it, you find yourself in a place doing something you never intended on doing, and it's so heartbreaking. So just have really good boundaries in place when it comes to the opposite sex. But I think too, you could be led to help someone who is the same sex as you, and that can be fine if your spouse is comfortable with you helping that person as well. Because there's been times where you're trying to help, you're not crossing the gender boundary per se, But maybe this person is sucking all of your time, is sucking all of your energy, and is just taking advantage of you to the point it's a detriment in your marriage. And so it's something where you need to talk to your spouse about that and say, is this something where you can provide help in this way? And also, is this wise, you know, for our own marriage? Because sometimes it can mess with you when you're trying to help others.

You do have to put those boundaries in place because none of us are Jesus, none of us can be, all things to all people. And early in our own marriage, with good intentions together as a couple, there were a few different situations where, um, indiv— like one with an individual and one with a really more of a family, we got pulled into helping and trying to share burdens. And in both those situations, we didn't have good guardrails up in how we were sharing and really were taken advantage of in terms of like our time, our finances, our good intentions were taken advantage of. And, you know, we were trying to help and love our neighbors, and we were just wide-eyed and naive, but pure-hearted in that situation. There have been, I mean, times where my motives were not pure, but in those situations they were. And we learned from that. It's like, okay, we, we wanna help people, but we also, we have to safeguard. We can only do so much. We only have so much time, so many resources, and we have to make sure that we have some guardrails in place. Even if our motives are pure, the motives of somebody else might not be. And it's not just like the kind that could lead to an affair. Sometimes it's just, there are just people that are takers. And they will just take whatever they can get from whoever will give it. And maybe it's, they've had to be survivors. Maybe they've probably been through a lot in their own life. And it doesn't help to enable that kind of behavior by just giving and giving and giving until there's nothing left to give. Or you have to take a step back and say, I'm sorry, I just, I can't, I can't do anymore.

Or this is what I can do, but I can't do this. And together, deciding that. So I mean, I know that was a lot to kind of unpack, but it's important to have boundaries when it comes to this, um, just to safeguard your marriage. Because you don't want to be like bearing all these other people's burdens to the point where you don't have room to bear your spouse's burdens. I mean, that's kind of the point I'm trying to make, is I think sometimes with good intentions we overextend ourselves, and then we have nothing left, and we're like, just deal with it. Like, why do you have to bring this problem to me? And you're like, you're my spouse. Like, I I'm just telling you what's on my heart. Well, gosh, I'm exhausted because I've been dealing with this person and this family and this, you know. And so we need to hold space for each other in bearing these burdens together. I wanna say this real quick. Something that I really had to learn really throughout our marriage is, and there's verses about this, I know I'm gonna misquote it, but I know Dave will have the right quote. He was in Bible quiz or whatever as a kid. So that's, he's really good at like recalling it.

That just means I'm nerdy. I love it.

I love that you're nerdy. Nerdy, especially in the Bible. I mean, what better area of study to be nerdy in? But it talks about kind of this concept of how when someone is down, you don't automatically try to bring 'em up. And early in our marriage, and I actually, I've had to learn this throughout our whole marriage, 'cause I don't like to be, like, I like to be up. Like, I like to be happy. I generally, Dave is—

Well, there are several verses in Proverbs that speak to that. One that I love, just the kind of the poetic nature of it, it says, "Don't sing songs to a heavy heart." And then it goes into more detail and it was like basically trying to cheer somebody up too fast when they're needing to kind of sit in their grief. It's like taking away their coat on a cold rainy day. It's like that in that moment, that grief, which again, there are seasons where you need to grieve, is a comfort to them. And you're trying to cheer them up and you think it's a good thing, But if you're trying to cheer somebody up when they need that season or that moment of grief, it's actually ripping their comfort away in a way that's not helpful to them. And so I'm glad that scripture's there, 'cause my nature is to just encourage and like, I make somebody laugh, you know, like tell a dumb joke to try to break the awkwardness of like—

Make it happy.

Sometimes we've gotta be comfortable though, just to sit in the pain. The Bible says, "Rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep." Yes. So there's times when your friends are celebrating, hey, celebrate with them. But when your friends are weeping, you know, weep. Like, sit with them in that, honor that moment, and let them experience that pain and be a safe place for them to experience that pain, because that's a sacred moment too.

Well, you've taught me that because even though you are generally an upbeat person and, You know, you like to keep it light and all those kind of things, but there's been times where you'll get down or you'll get in a mood or you'll need to be mad or you'll need to be sad or you'll need to be—

BMD, Bad Mood Dave.

Yeah, his brothers lovingly gave it a nickname, BMD, Bad Mood Dave. But like, I, and I mean, it's not just a mood, like you will have like been really disappointed about something, okay? Let's say you got some news and you're just really disappointed. And I will like, you know, I've tried to get better at this. I'm still a work in progress, but I remember early in our marriage, I'd be like, Oh, that's too bad. But come on, I mean, smile. We have all this to be so grateful for, Dave. Like, I mean, look, the sun is shining and like the wind feels great on our skin today. And look, we have this little pup and it just loves us so much. And we're just safe in this house. And you know, like I would go through all these things and be like, how can you be sad with this? Like kind of Pollyanna, you know? And you would look at me and you'd say, can I not just have a moment where I'm disappointed? And I still would push you on it. And I would be like, we have the hope of the Lord. You know, like, I mean, then I'd get real like, Yeah, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, and I meant well by it. I meant well because in my mind I'm like, I'm just encouraging you, I'm bringing you back up. But I was forgetting the bearing the burden part. I was forgetting this thing.

And so again, it's good intentions. Yeah, I mean, good intentions. And sometimes there are times when a person needs to be uncomfortably pulled out of the funk.

If they just sat in that too long.

Right, there are times we gotta like stage an intervention and be like, we are getting out. You're gonna laugh again, right?

Right.

I don't care if you, you, you know, you want to or not. Like, I, um, remember my dad with one of his uncles, and they're closer in age, almost like brothers. And the, the dad— uncle was visiting and he was going through a really hard time, you know, business was bad and financial pressure and a lot of negative hard stuff going on. And, and dad said, I'm taking you to the comedy club tonight. And my uncle was like, Well, I don't really want to go. He's like, I'll go, but I'm probably not going to laugh because I just got like one on. Dad's like, we're going to go, we're going to have fun. And so they went and dad said my uncle was laughing so hard there were like tears coming down his face. And afterwards he goes, oh my gosh, I needed that.

He needed that.

Yeah. And so sometimes you do got to just push them along and say, nope, we're laughing today. But you got to have the relationship with someone, the relational buying with somebody to to know, like, okay, this is a funk that's lasted long enough. Or even in this season of funk, you're still gonna have moments of laughter and we're gonna go laugh today.

Right.

But then there are other times you just gotta know somebody and read 'em like, right now, do they need me to come alongside 'em? And if something, I just ask, like, do you want me to help you laugh today?

Right.

Or do you want me to sit with you and be a safe place for you to just process what you're going through and just ask 'em.

Like asking for what they need. And I think, and just being near to be there for what they need. Because I think too, sometimes we get so busy and distracted that we don't even stop enough to see how our spouse is feeling or to even inquire and ask them, you know, how they're feeling. You know, I love how your friend, our friend Daniel, years ago, he lost his young wife to cancer.

Yeah.

And you were one of the people who he really was opening up to during that time. And he said something to you that I think is worth sharing again. It's just so poignant about sitting with people and bearing their burden, especially in grief. Can you tell the listeners about that?

Yeah, well, I'd asked him, I said, you know, people, what helps? You're going through this terrible, unimaginable loss. You know, you lose your young wife, you know, mother of your young children. I mean, she was still, they were both like 28 years old or something and had these two adopted babies and their mom is gone. I mean, it's just an unimaginable loss. And I said, people have said, they say things to you, but of all the things people can say to you in that kind of grief, like what actually helps? And he said, I appreciate people's efforts. He said, but you know, people, we do say silly things like, oh, God just needed another angel or what? It's like, no, he didn't. He didn't. You're not, she's not, it's not how it works. And that's not helpful. But what does help? He said, what I've found is helping is if somebody's really hurting, don't just tell them it's going to be okay. Be willing to be with them until they're able to say that it's going to be okay. And that changed the way that I thought about walking with people through burdens and through grief, because I'm like, hey man, it's going to be okay, it's going to be okay. And that doesn't help. And they, they know it's going to be okay, probably, but that's not what they need. That's not what they need to hear. They need to know you're there with them and that you're going to be there and be reliable and be there on the days they want to laugh about it, be on there the days they want to cry about it, until they get to the place where they realize, yeah, this is a scar I'll always carry, but You know, it's gonna be okay. I think I'm gonna be okay. And Daniel is married now. He married a lovely woman who herself was a widow, a young widow, and they've got a blended family and this beautiful family that was born through tragedy.

Yes.

And now they make it their mission. They minister to others who've lost spouses and it's really beautiful. Incredible. Just the story God's writing through their lives. So yeah, thanks for bringing up that story.

I just think, you know, as one, for him being one who's really walked through the depths of grief, to say that, it's just really, it makes you, it made me really pay attention to that. And I just wanna share this briefly since, you know, we're back with the Naked Marriage Podcast and a lot has happened in over a year. You know, recently my mom went through a cancer battle. She was diagnosed with breast cancer. And this is only at the time of this recording, a few months ago. Those of you who've walked through cancer, even yourself or with a loved one, you know, it's, it's just a roller coaster, and there's a lot of hurry up and wait. And of course, my mom was completely blindsided by this and so scared. She went through surgery to remove the cancer and then went through radiation. And we were able just a couple weeks ago to be in Kentucky, to be there for her to ring the bell as she completed radiation. And as of right now, she is Cancer-free. Praise Jesus. And she just really is so grateful to be alive and to be healthy. And she'll be on a chemo pill for 5 years. And I've heard that can be kind of a rough road and be hard on the body, but she's just so grateful that they caught it early, and we are too. But one thing my mom has really talked about a lot in this is who carried that burden with her. And I wanna say she had wonderful friends. Of course, my sister and I, you know, we tried to be there for Mom as best we could, and just checking in on her, seeing what she needs, and just trying to bear that burden with her. She had dear friends constantly coming beside her, some who had walked through cancer themselves, and had been there for her, and she's so grateful for them as well. But I think her number one burden bearer through this whole thing has been my dad, and they just celebrated their 46th wedding anniversary.

Congrats, Bill and Mary.

Congrats, Bill and Mary. You guys, I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful for them, and that's no easy feat to be married for 46 years. And it was so sweet to see their picture they took. And they were like two little kids, you know, just two little teenagers all happy on their 46th wedding anniversary. But my mom, you know, at this recent bell ringing, with tears in her eyes, we had like a meal afterwards to celebrate. And she said, you know, I'm just so grateful for your dad. She said, he literally, my dad owns his own business. And you know, if you own your own business, there's always something to do. And she said, even with his own business, even with how busy everything is and needing the money and everything, you know, especially when you're paying for cancer treatments. She said he never ever missed one appointment, not one, not one radiation treatment, not one doctor's appointment. He was like, Mary, I'm not gonna let you go through this alone. And I just think that's such a picture of marriage. I mean, that's a picture of bearing burdens even 46 years later. And I just, I wanted to share that because it was a reminder to me of just how beautiful that is.

Yeah, yeah. They have done that right. So congrats to Bill and Mary. And man, thank— this has been a great episode. I hope it's been an encouragement to you. We're gonna wrap up as we always do with a question that you send in. You can send us questions that might end up on air by writing us on Instagram @DaveAndAshleyWillis or by going to nakedmarriagepodcast.com. And today's question says this, my wife never wants to do anything around the house. I'm the only one who makes all the income "and I feel like she expects me to do most of the housework too. I feel used. When I tell her how I feel, she either gets mad at me or turns it back to me by criticizing me somehow. I feel like I don't have a partner. What do I do?" Oh man, that is so hard, you know? And I've known people that feel like they're in this kind of dynamic where, you know, marriage is never truly 50/50. You know, you're both carrying, carrying weights in different ways at different times. And, but if one person feels like it all falls on me, the emotional load, the financial load, the household load, and the other spouse is just like, you know what, I'm just here to feel my feelings and be served. Yeah. It's, that's not a partnership.

Right, right.

It's really hard. So what do you do in that situation?

I'm glad you said partnership because it comes back to, you know, one of those four laws of love that Pastor Jimmy talked about, the law of partnership. And I mean, that's, Biblical, it's just what marriage is all about is partnership. And again, I think there's different seasons where maybe one of you might be having to pull more of the load than the other and vice versa. But it's important that when we come to each other in marriage that we serve, right? We both are willing to serve. We both are willing to, again, like we talked about before, to contribute to the finances somehow, even if it's not working outside the home. And maybe you're a stay-at-home parent, whatever you're doing, you're taking care of the kids and taking care of the home. And so there's balance in taking care of the home, bringing finances home, in getting kids to where they need to go, in just all the things that you tend to and that you share together. There needs to be a balance there. And so, I mean, this is really tough because if your spouse is just unmotivated and doesn't wanna do anything, and then when you actually try to address it, goes up against it and won't really hear what you're trying to say, I think that that's at a point where you need to talk to a professional about this.

Absolutely.

I would talk to a Christian counselor. You can go to aacc.net and find some vetted Christian counselors in your area if you wanna meet in person. I'm also a biblical counselor and mental health and marriage coach, ashleywillis.net. You can look that up there. I think if you need maybe to focus in more on maybe an underlying marriage issue here, like with communication, it sounds like there's a big communication breakdown. I think one of our XO Marriage intensives could be greatly helpful to you. You can go to xomarriage.com and meet with one of our XO Marriage coaches. And you can meet for half a day, whole day, 2 days, but it would be very helpful to you because this is a major problem. I mean, this isn't, this is not something that happened overnight. This sounds like this is a pattern of imbalance in serving each other in the relationship and bearing the load in the relationship. But also I think that there's a communication breakdown here where maybe your wife has some, underlying issues that need to be addressed. And I think that this is a hard place to be when you feel like you're just completely unsupported and unseen. And I just, I think reaching out for help would be a great next step.

Yeah, reach out for help. I mean, that's sometimes the simplest yet most difficult step is just to say, "Hey, we need help." And so make that call. Our XO mediators have an initial call that you can set up, quickly just to talk through what's going on and talk about different ways that the coaches here might be able to help out. And as always, you can go to xomarriage.com for some great resources to help with whatever you're going through. And just praying that every marriage in a dynamic like this one finds a way to get on the same page and experience the joys of partnership, which is how God designed marriage to be. Friends, thanks so much for tuning in. We love and appreciate all of you. And do us a favor and subscribe to this podcast if you haven't already. You'll never miss one if you'll subscribe, and we got some great stuff coming up. Thanks again. God bless. We'll see you next time.