Discouragement, Disappointment and Depression

Hey, welcome to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis. And on this podcast, we address the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. And we've got an important topic for you this week. We do every week, really, because all this is relates to where we are in life and marriage. But I think this is one that's timely, that we can all relate to in some degree. And it's about how to. How to work through disappointment and discouragement individually and as a couple in marriage. And I think that there are a lot of factors that can. That can link to this, whether it's being in quarantine for a long time or whether it's just kind of putting our faith and hope in our own expectations or in the opinions of other people and things that are out of our control. But we're going to talk through healthy ways to work through what such a part of the human experience and what God says about this. But first, my brilliant and beautiful wife has got her sexy reading glasses on because she is about to read a review. And. And thank you, by the way, for those who leave reviews on the podcast. We read everyone. They encourage us so much. So, sweetie, why don't you share one with us?

All right, so today we're going to share one from Amos Chelsea, and it's entitled Game Changer. And it says, this podcast has been so eye opening, not only for my marriage, but also for my individual growth. My parents got divorced when I was 8, and I have never had the opportunity to see what marriage is intended to look like. I grew up in a toxic environment, so the influences I did have were mostly negative. I love that I can use your practical advice in my marriage and finally have some sort of model to look to. God is using you guys to change lives. Keep up the great work. Well, thank you so much, Amos and Chelsea, for leaving that. We really appreciate you doing that. And, you know, before we dive into today's episode, we want to tell you about this important resource.

Black Friday Savings are here at the Home Depot, which means it's time to add new cordless power to your collection. Right now, when you buy a select battery kit from one of our top brands like Ryobi or Milwaukee, you'll get a select tool from that same brand for free. Click into one of our best deals of the season and stock up on tools for all your upcoming projects. Get Black Friday Savings happening now at the Home Depot. Limit one per transaction exclusion supply full eligible tool list in store and online.

I'm really glad we're talking about this topic today because I do think that all of us can relate. Even if we're not currently going through this, we maybe will in the future or maybe we have in the past, and we're talking about discouragement and just feeling disappointed kind of with life. All of us go through this. You know, Dave and I have been married almost 20 years, and we've certainly had moments of this. And what I found, too, it's usually not us at the same time. Sometimes it is, but usually it's kind of us trading off. We always kind of, kind of laugh it off a little bit just to provide some levity to the situation and say, oh, we're taking turns, you know, doing this. But everybody goes through times of discouragement and disappointment. But the reason we wanna talk about this today is when one spouse is going through that and another spouse isn't. Even if it has nothing to do with the marriage. Like, even if you feel fine about your marriage, but you're just kind of. You're just kind of disappointed with where life. Your life is at the moment. It can really cause a disconnect in marriage. And that's where problems can kind of come up because we start maybe doing things we weren't doing in order to make ourselves not feel discouraged or disappointed.

Yeah, it's so true. And this is, like Ashley said, just kind of part of the human experience. And as Christians, you know, we have the joy of the Lord. The joy of the Lord is our strength. We're called to have joy even in difficult situations. However, we're also going to face discouragement. And as you read the Bible, you know, every hero of the faith that we look to went through seasons of discouragement. Even Jesus himself was called a man of many sorrows and experience real discouragement. When you read the psalms, which are so joyful in parts. But a huge number of the Psalms are called Psalms of Lament, where it's essentially, you know, just like crying out to God in a season of discouragement. And I love how honest the Bible is about the whole life journey and the whole faith journey that it's not always going to be upbeat. We're not always going to feel on top of the world. Sometimes we're going to feel down in the darkest valley what some people call the dark night of the soul. And in those times, I think we can experience God's presence like never before. And we can grow like never before. But if we're not careful, those seasons can turn into a lifestyle. And while discouragement is going to happen sometimes we're not called to live there. We're not called to be defined by it. We're not called to stay there. And if we're not careful, the choices we make in those seasons of discouragement can really be reckless and hurtful to the ones around us. And so we need to learn that how to navigate it in a healthy way. You know, we don't have to pretend like. Like we're. We're happy 100% of the time, you know, when we're not, because that's not being authentic. But at the same time, we can't let our own discouragement or disappointment turn into a time for reckless and selfish decisions or a time to blame and hurt the people who love us most.

Right?

And that's when it can take real damage on a marriage. And so we just want to talk a little bit today about how to navigate discouragement. And right now, as we're recording this, you know, most of us have been in a long season of quarantine with COVID 19. Hopefully we're coming to an end of that. And so just globally, we're kind of facing a unique season of hardship. But even if you're listening to this, years down the road, and that's a long, distant memory, hopefully there are always going to be those seasons of discouragement. And navigating them wisely is such an important part of life and marriage, you know, it is.

When I think about discouragement and disappointment, it brings me right back to. I think it was like, in the early years of our marriage, we didn't have children quite yet, and Dave and I, we were at a church where I had grown up, and we wanted to. As a married couple, we wanted to do something, volunteer in some way, be part of a small group. And we were so excited. And so that was going on, and I think we were involved in different. Like, I was involved in a capacity, and then all of a sudden, you know, I think I was on the worship team at the time. And there was this email that was sent that I wasn't supposed to see where I wasn't going to be included in some singing group. And I remember normally that wouldn't have bothered me, but because I had grown up in this church and I'd been on the worship team, it bothered me so much. And so that was kind of one disappointment. And then we were, like, calling all these people, trying to get involved, and it was like no one would call us back. That was another disappointment. And then I think I just graduated college, and I'd applied for all these jobs, didn't get one call back to the job. Had to go to a temp agency. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. I went through all this, and now I'm at a temp agency. So that was another disappointment, because life was not looking like what I thought. Because I had in my head expectations that when I got married, you know, Dave and I would then lead this ministry at church. I would still go on the worship team. And then I would get my dream job right out of college. And then we would live happily ever after. But, you know, life never really goes exactly as we think it's gonna go. And so in those kind of years, there was, you know, several years of this. I really let it mess with me. I really. Instead of going to the Lord right away and saying, God, what do you want me to learn from this? I really just kind of had a pity party. And I remember in those times, Dave, you know, he didn't tell me to snap out of it. Cause that's, like, the last thing a disappointed or discouraged person wants to hear is snap out of it. But I do remember him letting, like. And I remember I would have these little rants where I'd be like, can you believe this? They didn't send me this email. Or, can you believe this? We haven't gotten called back after weeks. And can you believe this? That this job, I had the perfect credentials. And they didn't call me. And I really had this pity party. And he would. He would just smile. He would listen to me, and bless his heart, he was super patient during that time. But I remember he would always tell me, I am so sorry, sweetie. I'm so sorry you're disappointed. But, you know, I bet there's gonna be something better that God has for us. But I'm so sorry. And what I love about that and why I'm sharing that with you is that he acknowledged my feelings, even if he didn't totally understand them and was like, she's acting kind of loony. He acknowledged my feelings. He validated them and said, I'm sorry. And that's what you can do as a spouse, even if you don't understand it. You say, like, I'm so sorry you feel that way. I'm so sorry that that is so discouraging and disappointing to you. But then he followed it up by reminding me of God's promise in our life that he's gonna work all those things, you know, for our good and his glory. And what I found is when I really focused More on what God had in store and what I could learn from it is Dave and I started to pivot because God used those years of disappointment and discouragement as a means to pivot us.

Yeah, every time.

And what we ended up doing in those years is we ended up finding another church. This is just a specific story. We found another church in town where we decided to check it out. It turned out they really needed our help, and we got very involved in the youth ministry. And when I look back at that time, those years of being heavily involved in the youth ministry were just so fruitful. And he used us. He really used us, not only to help the youth, but the youth really helped us. I mean, it was just a rich time of learning, of leading, of God really refining us. And if we had just, you know, kind of stuck, stayed where we were, just allowed it to make us bitter and disgruntled, we really wouldn't have come together as close in that time as we did as a married couple, because we were doing ministry together. And it was really cool to see how God did use that for our good and his glory.

Yeah. And that's what he always does. And I could list out a litany of disappointments that I've had personally, professionally, in my health, in anything, where, again, it's this expectation of what I want life to look like, like Ashley said. And then what's actually happening doesn't match that picture. And. But when I really look at it through the lens of faith, I can see every time that God was working it all together for good, as he promises that he will. And that's always been the story, I think, about the apostle Paul 2000 years ago, who wrote most of the New Testament. And there are these times where he had all these plans that kept getting shut. The door just kept shutting, like, well, I've tried to go to Asia, and God shut the door on that. And then I really had this desire to go to Spain, and I was going to preach the gospel. There's. And God shut the door, and then I end up in prison, of all places. You know, like, through no fault of my own. Here I'm like, this isn't at all what I'd pictured and what I desired, but how God used those shut doors and disappointments to put him in prison and ultimately to Rome and through that journey where he could write the most powerful letters of the church that we still write today. You know, the book of Romans, you know, the book of Philippians, which was written from a prison cell. And these places were birthed out of disappointment and failure in some way in Paul's mind. But he maintained this joy and this peace even through discouragement, even through experiencing imprisonment and beatings and abandonment by friends and just any kind of disappointment a human can experience. And yet, through that journey, God showed his faithfulness. And God actually brought the most productive ministry of Paul's life in those times of great disappointments. And he'll do the same for us. And I need to remind myself of that, because I. I'm one that's prone to disappointment. Like, I can get discouraged really, really quickly when things don't go exactly the way that I think that they should. And I can just kind of live in that funk. And thankfully, I have a spouse in Ashley who's really quick to help bring me out of that. And in marriage, we've got to become experts in speaking your spouse's language of encouragement. Oh, yeah, because when we kick them while they're down, or when we say, you've got no right to feel that way, or I've got it harder than you do, and you're just being this or that, you're driving a wedge between the two of you. Instead of creating an opportunity of real healing by listening to each other, supporting each other, learning those unique ways to bring encouragement to your spouse in his or her moments of disappointment. I'm telling you, this is one of the biggest distinctives between healthy couples that remain best friends and partners throughout life and those who just kind of struggle through and maybe even end in divorce is learning to encourage each other. Instead of diminishing when your spouse is hurting or discouraged, diminishing their feelings, and instead saying, I want to encourage you. I want to build you up, and if you'll do that, it'll make all the difference.

You know, it really does. And like Dave said, I mean, we've had this happen so many different times. And I think it's just really important, like Dave said, not to point fingers and be like, what's wrong with you? Because that just. That just ignites kind of a fire and a fight between spouses that isn't good. You know, it just kind of. It's like slapping them in the face and saying what you're feeling isn't. Isn't right and you need to snap out of it and that your feelings aren't. Aren't valued as a spouse and just in general, and that you're stupid. I mean, that's kind of what you're saying when you're like, what's wrong with you? And so we've got to validate. I can't emphasize that enough. We really need to validate the feelings even if we don't understand them or we wouldn't see it the same way. We have to say, you know, I'm so sorry that you feel that way. But I also think we need to also be really in tune to if this is a prolonged issue because, you know, everybody does go through times of disappointment and discouragement, but if it's very prolonged, sometimes you do need to bring in like a counselor. And there were years ago, I remember Dave went through a time where, you know, he wasn't in like a full on depression, but there was a prolonged season of disappointment. And, and as one who went through an actual depression many years ago and who sought counsel, I remember I came to you one day, sweetie, and I was like, listen, I know you're a counselor all the time. Like you're the pastoral counselor. You're always giving advice, you're always pouring out. But I just notice in your eyes and in our conversations that you're going through a season of disappointment. And it's more than just a short time. I mean, this is, this has been kind of a pattern, A long funk. A long funk. And I said, sweetie, why don't you talk to somebody? And he kind of, I mean, it's funny sometimes when you're. They say like, doctors don't want to go to doctors. Well, in the same way, sometimes counselors don't want to go to counselors. And he at first was like, oh, I don't know if I need that. I mean, it's not that bad. And I'm like, listen, I'm your wife. I'm telling you, it's that bad. Like you're not yourself. And so he did, he finally went set up a time with an awesome counselor in our town at the time in Georgia. And what did you say after seeing that counselor?

Do you remember? It was so helpful.

You said it was freeing.

It was, it was so healthy to like sit, you know, with this, this doctor, Dr. Kennedy. You know, he was this much older wise guy who just had so much life experience and such a calming presence and great perspective.

Yeah.

And how he just kind of helped me look at things through a different lens. And for me to be able to talk through some things and it unearthed some issues that I hadn't even really thought about being issues. It was so healthy and it's so healthy. And I've just encouraged you in that and I would also encourage you to listen to your spouse. You know, that's about the only smart thing I did in that season is just recognize, well, if Ashley is saying this is an issue, I don't want my pride to step in and say there's not. If your spouse comes to you and says, listen, I think that you would benefit from this.

Like you're not yourself.

Yeah, don't bristle up and say, what are you talking about? You know, Instead, really listen because they know you better than anybody and validate what they're saying and feeling and trust their judgment to say, you know what, maybe I could benefit. They want nothing but good things for me. And so I want to listen to this. And I'm so thankful that I did because it was really helpful. Score the perfect gift at Dick's Sporting Goods Start your wish list with top picks from Nike, Jordan, FP Movement and more. Shop trending shoes, golf gear, water bottles and more of this year's hottest gifts. Need it fast? Stop by your local store or use the Dick's app for quick pickup or delivery. Visit dicksportinggoods.com to shop this year's best holiday gifts at Dick's.

We've got gifting all wrapped up at Sephora. Gift more and spend less with our value sets packed with the best makeup skills, skincare, fragrances and hair care they'll love. This year's Showstopper gift sets are bursting with beauty products from Rare Beauty, Summer Fridays, Glossier Amika, and so much more. Shop holiday gifts@sephora.com and give something beautiful. But I also want to say a lot of times where we see discouragement come into play, and I know we kind of joke about it as a society, but this usually comes into play when we're kind of in those midlife years and we joke about we're kind of there. Okay, kind of.

I'm definitely there.

Dave's more there than me. I always like to just remind him of that.

I'm a couple years older, but it's a big couple years, so.

Oh goodness. And it's kind of a. There's a wide spectrum to midlife crises and we all kind of can experience this in different ways, but really what it's all about, you know, the stereotypical midlife crisis is someone going out and getting a motorcycle or a fast car or doing something crazy to their hair or getting a surgery or something. I mean, like that's what we all credit with being reckless.

Leaving your wife for a 20 year old girlfri or something. That's just completely way out of Bounds. But I think for a lot of us, the midlife crisis. And to be frank, I feel like I'm kind of there. Like, not in a stereotypical way. I haven't bought a motorcycle or gotten a tattoo or anything, but it's kind of this. If life is like a football or basketball game and you're in the halftime years, halftime is that place where you get out of the game and you kind of reflect on the first half, what's working, what's not working, and then develop a game plan for the next half. And so I've been just kind of in a lot of reflection of, like, what have. What have I done? Well, what have I done that hasn't worked? What do I want to learn and grow through this? And. And then I'll get frustrated when I can't get a clear game plan for what needs to happen.

Yes.

Next. And you're.

You don't have clarity. Clarity's the word.

I'm not smiling. You're, like, laughing over there at my midlife crisis.

It's not funny. I'm just laughing because we get this, like, discouragement and disappointment and, you know, it's just something everybody goes through. But the midlife crisis. I think that instead of doing something crazy reckless, for most of us, it's just this time where we're a little disappointed with something in our life. And it could even be like, you know, we were just talking about this morning about friendships that we feel like maybe we didn't do a good enough job of holding onto after we've moved so many times. Yeah, things like that.

I got hit like a guy who's one of my dearest friends from college in our wedding. Was in our wedding, and we kind of, like, you know, fell out of touch. And we kind of reconnected on Facebook recently, and he wrote, and he was just like, hey, I've got to confess that I was kind of, like, harboring some resentment toward you because, you know, years ago, you know, my mom died, and you said, you know, reach out. I want to be there for you. And I called, and you didn't call me back, and it just hurt me, and it's hurt me, you know, for years. And honestly, I couldn't even remember the details of that. I don't remember clearly not calling back. I'm sure I didn't, because he was hurt by it. But I didn't even remember the details to know exactly what was going on and how I would have had such an insensitive oversight. But it really hit me and made me think, like, my gosh, what other blind spots have I had for me to drop the ball as a friend and such, such a big, such a big way and damage a friendship that, that, that really, you know, really mattered and still matters to me. And so I, I, I do think that this is a season of life just kind of reflecting back of, like, what have been my blind spots and what do I need to look at differently moving forward and dealing with disappointment. Disappointment and discouragement are always, always linked. And that's kind of like why we're talking about both at the same time. And all of us have seen some levels of disappointment of, you know, life hasn't gone the way that we pictured. And when we're dealing with disappointment, it can be really sensitive in marriage because your spouse can think, well, if you're disappointed in your life in some way, and I, as your spouse, am like the most significant part of your life, then it's hard for me to hear that you're disappointed without taking it personally, to feel like, well, are you disappointed in me? Do you feel like I'm holding you back? And in my situation, I've truly never had any disappointment that was Ashley's fault or even connected to her. She's the greatest joy in my life. But at the same time, I want to always reassure her that I'm feeling disappointment right now. But this is not you. I'm so thankful for you. But what do you do in those situations where you feel like your spouse is disappointed with you and how do you navigate that? Um, and I think that's where a lot of folks, folks are, and they, it kind of creates this division and divide in marriage that, that can make a season of disappointment lead to a season of divorce. And that's certainly not what, what we want. So how do we, how do we navigate that?

Well, again, I mean, I think it's just so important for us to keep on talking, because I think what happens in a lot of these situations is we are disappointed. We don't vocalize it. And what it turns into is resentment. And it turns into anger harbored anger, which just gets worse as time goes on. And then one day, you know, they do something, literally the straw that breaks the camel's back, and we just unleash. And we're like, I've always hated this about our life, and you never did this. And if I had married that guy over there, he would have never done this to me, you know? And like, that just, that's so toxic. And so we've Got to. When that disappointment starts to creep in, we need to go to our spouse in a calm way, in a loving way, and say, listen, you may not have meant it this way. Give them the benefit of the doubt. But I just feel like, you know, you're not doing this thing that is disappointing to me. You know, you're not communicating to me in this way, or whatever promise they made to you that maybe they broke, maybe it was something that they told you they would do, and they've never really done it. And so you're super disappointed. You've got to go to them. Don't let days and weeks and months go by and just get angrier by the day. Go to them and say, listen, I don't wanna feel this way towards you. I don't wanna feel let down. But you did let me down. And, you know, can we talk about this? Because I don't know if it was me having expectations that were unrealistic or if it was you dismissing my expectations or if it was me not being clear about my expectations, because it could be any of those things or more. And really talk through that. And if your spouse comes to you and. And says, you let me down, do not get defensive, okay? I think it's. So that's what we wanna do as human beings. We wanna get defensive and say, whatever. You let me down every day. I mean, I've been disappointed for 10 years. You know, like, that's what we wanna do. Because you know that pride gets in the way of healthy communication. And instead we need to say, oh, my gosh, I had no idea. Like, I didn't mean it that way at all. Tell me exactly what it was that let you down. Cause I do not wanna do that again.

Yeah. And communication. We always come back to it. Communication is key. And as you communicate, do it with respect, with thoughtfulness, with tenderness, in your tone, not with accusation. That's huge. A couple other things I think can help you through seasons of discouragement. Number one, find what recharges your batteries. You know, in our house, there's an epidemic of every phone being dead all the time.

Dave's the only one who charges not to brag.

I'm not good at many things, but I'm awesome at plugging stuff in.

You are.

And I'm the only one in the house who has that particular gift because all the other phones are usually dead and I'm going around plugging them in all day. So it's a public service. If I ever die, please check on.

My family, because I Have let you down in that. You said, I've never let you down. I have let you down in that way. That's the one thing I have let you down.

Dead phones.

And I'm sorry.

So. But I'm like, it's so easy if you just. If you plug it in, you don't wait for it to get all the way on empty to start thinking about when I'm going to plug this in. But you keep it plugged in regularly, then it'll never be dead. And it's the same with our body, our health, our soul, all of it. Don't wait until you're just on red, on complete empty to think, well, I should probably think about doing something to kind of recharge me. Because by that point, you're in the danger zone. It's going to cause unnecessary stress. But all along, consistently do things for your mind, body, soul to help you recharge. Figure out what that is. For me, it's. It's going on a run. For me, it's starting the day early and having some quiet time to just meditate on God's word and pray or to sit outside on a pretty day and read a book just purely for entertainment and enjoyment. Help your spouse find what recharges them and recognize it might not be what recharges you and support them in that. Don't say, well, you shouldn't need that. I don't need a nap, you shouldn't need a nap, or, I don't need this, you shouldn't need it. Help them be at their best. Don't make them feel bad for the way that God wired them, as if God made a mistake. Celebrate the fact that you're different and help them recharge and at the same time, take extreme ownership. I read a book by Navy SEALs fairly recently called Extreme Ownership, which is great. The whole gist of the book is Navy seals lead by taking ownership over every part of their life. They don't blame things on circumstances. They don't blame things on other people or on the mission or whatever you. They say, I'm going to take ownership over every aspect of this and not blame anybody. And sometimes in our own life and marriage, we have to take extreme ownership. Like, I'm not going to blame my boss, that I don't like my job. I'm not going to blame, you know, anybody. I'm going to take ownership and say, I'm responsible for my health. I'm responsible for making sure I'm recharged. I'm responsible for being A good spouse. And I'm going to do that each and every day. And things will improve if we'll do that consistently.

Absolutely. I just want to say I want to add eating some halo top ice cream with a little bit of chocolate syrup is also one way that you recharge.

Recharge. Ashley gets me some ice cream that's.

You know, sort of healthy.

Sort of healthy. It makes me feel better about overindulging. And so you're right. See, she. It's not her thing at all.

I stock up on that stuff for you.

She stocks up because it encourages me. And that's just being a good spouse. Like, that's just being a good.

I keep you charged up. May not keep my phone or my computer.

You keep me charged up real good.

I walked right into that one right there.

Sorry. So, yes. So yes. You gotta keep recharging those batteries.

That's right. All right. And with that, we are gonna move into one of our favorite parts of the podcast and that is our Q and A. Q and A. And if you would like to leave a question for us that you want to be answered on the podcast, you can do that@nakedmarriagepodcast.com and so today's question is a really good one and I'm gonna go ahead and read it for you. It says, first I wanna say that you guys are awesome. Wow, thank you so much. Thank you.

Awesome.

You are awesome.

Thank you. Yeah, you guys are awesome.

It says, my husband and I have been listening to your podcast for close to a year now and you have improved our marriage tremendously. My question is regarding making your spouse an idol. My husband has struggled with self esteem issues since he was a child. He had divorced parents, a toxic father, et cetera. Because of this, he is only able to see his worth through others eyes, mainly me. This puts an uncomfortable expectation on me to give him validation in a way that I am just unable or ill equipped to fulfill. This, to me, is what you should seek Jesus about. Because of my failed expectations, anytime my views clash with my husband's, he immediately feels inadequate, discouraged and unworthy. He is in a Christian counseling right now and working on this, but it has significantly magnified since he is now acknowledging all these deeply buried feelings. How can I help him make Jesus the center of his life and understand that disagreeing doesn't mean he isn't worthy. Hopefully this made sense. Thank you for all you do.

Yeah, that's.

Thank you so much for that question.

Yeah, thank you for that. And first off, it's Great that he's in counseling. And Ashley says a lot with counseling. It's such a healthy, healthy thing. But it often feels worse before it gets better because you are unearthing so many of these things. All of us wrestle in one extent or another with looking at our validation, for our validation through other people. And we need to always find our validation through God's eyes. And there's a book that I'm going to recommend right now that I don't think I've ever recommended on the podcast. And yet it's one that's impacted me nearly as much as anything that I've ever read. And it's specifically about this issue. The book is called abba's Child by Brennan Manning. A B B, A abba's child. Abba being the term for father that Jesus used to talk to his heavenly father and our heavenly Father. And it's the most intimate term in that language. It's like saying dad or papa or daddy even, and recognizing that we are who we are when we see ourselves through that lens. We're Abba's child. He's my dad. He's my father, my creator, my savior and friend, and the only one who can really validate my soul. And the way that it's written by Brennan Manning is it's so simple, beautiful, powerful, and profound. And so in addition to the counseling, whatever else your husband's doing, I would encourage you both to read that book together. It's not a marriage book, but it is one that I think could help you both really reestablish your identity in Christ and then support that in each other, validate that in each other, without either of you feeling like you have to find your soul's worth through each other's eyes, because God's already given you that.

Absolutely. I know that book just had a huge impact on Dave many years ago, but I wanna recommend another resource that actually impacted me, and that is a book called the Search for significance by Robert McGee. It's been around a long time. It actually has. There's a workbook, one that you can get, but there's also the book that you can get, but both have a portion in them where you write answers to different questions. Because I think as he's on this journey of realizing that his significance comes from Christ, not from other people, you really do have to process all these assumptions that you've already made in your mind. And I remember when I went through this workbook many years ago when I was going through anxiety and depression. This was a book that had a profound impact on me. It really helped me to realize some of these. These things that I did expect from people and that I was searching for validation kind of not necessarily from Jesus, but from Dave and from other people in my life. And that I, you know, it made me realize kind of the value I have in Christ just being his child. And so I think Abbas child and the search for significance would be some great resources to kind of add to what he is doing right now. And it would be beneficial for you as well to kind of have a window into how he's wired, because when you don't have that need, it's hard to understand why he feels the way he feels. And so it might be good, as his spouse, to kind of understand him a little bit better. But I just commend you on being such a supportive wife, on a wife that is pointing him to Christ. And, you know, I think that's just so awesome that you're on this journey with him. And that's what we're supposed to do as married people. We're supposed to be there as partners. You know, there's. We always say it's not his struggle or her struggle, it's our struggles, no matter what it is. And. And so I commend you as being. For being just such a loving wife and for writing that question today. And I know so many people will be able to relate to that as well. Well, to end this, guys, I actually wanted to share with you some verses that have to do with discouragement. So to end our podcast, we don't always get to do this, but I want to leave you with God's word, so I'm going to share a few of these with you. In Isaiah 43, 2, it says this. When you pass through the waters, I will be with you. And when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned, the flames will not set you ablaze. In Psalm 31, 24, it says, Be strong and take heart, all you who hope in the lord. In Psalm 55, 22, it says, Cast your burden on the Lord, and he will sustain you. He will never permit the righteous to be moved. In Psalm 121, it says, in my distress I called the Lord, and he answered me. And in Luke 12, 6, 7, I love this. It says, Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies, yet not one of them is forgotten by God? Indeed, the very hairs on your head are all numbered. Don't be afraid. You are worth more than any than many sparrows.

Wow. That is so powerful. God's word always, always brings peace to our soul. And it should be, I believe, the first place we turn along with prayer in those seasons of discouragement as well as those seasons of joy in the mountaintop and the valley. God wants to walk with us through all of it. Guys, thank you so much for listening. Thank you for sending in your questions. You can stay connected to us online. We're at Instagram avanashleywillis. You can find us on Facebook just by searching the word marriage. And you can write us there and we will write you back. We love hearing from you on social media and connecting with you that way. One additional book I'll add to the ones we've suggested today because Ashley won't do it, but I'll do it for her because she's got a great new book called Peace Pirates about the things that steal our peace. And if you're dealing with discouragement and disappointment, I think that the message of that book could really, really encourage you today.

Absolutely.

Thank you for listening. Subscribing when you guys subscribe and leave reviews, we read those as well. We appreciate everyone. It keeps us encouraged to keep going and it also helps others discover this podcast. So thank you so much for partnering with us. We love you. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time. Bye.

What I bought a new Blink Mini 2K smart security camera. What? I got 2K clarity sharp enough to see every detail of home when I'm away. Plus audio like I'm in the room, not with my bestie traveling to another city. Plus easy plugins set up to install faster than skipping through podcast ads. But you you to never Skip ads, right? Plus, I got all of this for just 49.99 Blink Mini 2K+ Mini Camera Max Performance Shop now@Amazon.com Blink.