Fight Fair

Hey, guys. Welcome to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast, we undress the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love.

That's right. And a big announcement at the front end of this podcast and that is our new book, the Naked Marriage is out. It's right. Same title as the podcast. Make it real easy. We are so excited to share this book with you guys. I mean, it's the culmination of just years and years of marriage, of work in marriage ministry, and of stories, inspiring stories from folks who have impacted our journey. I really believe that this book can impact your marriage. So check that out wherever you get your books or audiobooks and I hope it'll be a blessing to you. But today's topic, it's an important one. We're going to talk all about fighting fair.

I'm so excited about this topic today because I feel like it's really a game changer when it comes to your marriage. It can really make or break your marriage. And we're talking about how to fight fair. And so when it comes to fighting, I kind of am reluctant to even use the word fighting because that kind of, you know, makes us think about talking in a negative way. We think yelling, we think all the negative things, but really it's about how to handle disagreements. We could use that word because people are tend to like, not get like, oh my gosh, fighting. They're talking about fighting. But you know, really, guys, it's just semantics here. We're talking about different words. It really comes down to just being fair to your spouse and, and speaking to them in a respectful way. And so when it comes to having an argument, when you have something that you guys can just not agree on, I would tell you that if you start talking to each other and it starts to escalate and you start yelling at each other, maybe you start, you know, swearing at each other, calling each other names. That's when you have to shut that down fast, right, sweetie? You have to get away, get away, go into other rooms, take a moment, and if you can't, after five minutes, if you can't calm down and come and talk, sit on the couch and be in a calm fashion, you know, being respectful to one another, then I would say you need to go and write it down. I think sometimes, and we'll kind of talk more about this specifically, but I think when you have an issue that every time it comes up, it just, it just makes you guys get so angry at each other and you are like red faced and Fuming, then it might be time to write it down and then throw it away and write it down again. Because I'm telling you, the first thing you write down, it's gonna be angry. You're not gonna have nice things in there. And you may have to write it down three times. But what, what the writing process will do is really help you get down to what you're trying to say to your spouse instead of just, you know, lashing out. And so if you write it down and then you're able to give it to them and have them write it down too, it really is a great place to start the conversation. Now, if this doesn't work for you, that is time when you need to go to a counselor because you don't wanna let it just go on and on and on and eventually make you to where you're just, you know, hard hearted about it because that's what'll happen. We can't just expect things to get solved on their own. But counseling can be a great help. So that's when it's like a major fight and you're talking about a major issue that you just, you know, you can't have a civil conversation about it. You need to get away because it's gonna be damaging if you have children in the house, it's gonna be very damaging, but it's also damaging to you and your spirits and, and you need to get help. But I think a lot of times the fights that we have aren't even about major things. Right, sweetie?

Yeah. A lot of times it's about little stuff that turns into big stuff and maybe you're mad about something else completely unrelated. And this little thing your spouse does will be the thing that sets you off. And that's why we have to be, we have to be so careful in marriage to intentionally give each other our best. We have to be very careful about what we do with our anger because believe it or not, anger itself is not a sin. Okay? I mean, the Bible says, in your anger, do not sin, because anger is just a part of life. Jesus got angry at different points, but in our anger, we're more likely to make bad choices and we're more likely to say and do things we regret if we're not very careful about what we do when we're angry. So when you feel anger coming on, whether it was your spouse who sparked it or whether it's been sparked by something else, we've got to be so careful that we don't fly off the handle in those moments. And say and do reckless things. We've got to be kind to each other. And in marriage, if you're fighting, if you're looking at. If you're looking at opportunities to try to overpower your spouse, if you're looking for opportunities to try to belittle your spouse, that is always toxic. It is always going to bring poison into the relationship. You've got to build each other up, even in moments of disagreement. You've got to do it, like Ashley has said, with mutual respect, looking for solutions that work for you both because you're on the same team. We're going to keep saying that because that's what it comes down to. If you'll just get that one issue, it will change the way you disagree. God calls us in marriage not to uniformity, but to unity. What that means is you're unified around the main things. We love each other, we respect each other. We're on the same team. That doesn't mean you're always going to agree. It doesn't mean you're always going to like the same thing. You're always going to want the same paint color on the wall. But it's going to be opportunities for you to serve each other and not try to win, necessarily, but seeing the win as an opportunity to serve each other and grow closer to each other.

You know, as Dave was talking about some of silly things that we fight about, and we actually have some blogs about this, so if you go to marriagetoday.com, you can find out kind of more details about this. But it reminds me of a story that we actually share in the Naked Marriage about a topic that Dave and I, and this is the silliest thing ever, but we could just never get past this one issue. And it would actually lead us to have these little, like, mini arguments. And it was. Whenever we happen to talk about the website, Zillow.com, okay, it's a real estate website that many of you know, and you can look up, like, the value of your house or whatever, or you can look at houses that you're trying to buy. And at one time, we were. We were browsing houses.

We were in the process of buying and selling. So we had to be on there quite a bit looking at the market.

And Dave's obsessed and obsessed with Zillow.

It's a great site. Yeah. And looking at our own. Our own house and trying to figure out in how many people are viewing our house, trying to figure out how many people are checking out, you know, our listing but there's this one little issue, one little deal on Zillow that's called the Zestimate.

And it's where I hate the Zestimate.

It's where they list with the algorithm, whatever algorithm they use to determine based on the information they have, here's what we think your house is worth. And so, like, Ashley and I would end up arguing about this because I would look and our Zestimate would be low. It would be lower than what we were asking for the house. And I looked at it, and I would say, this isn't right. Like, this number isn't right. It doesn't factor in a lot of things we've done to the house. And Ashley would say, well, it doesn't really matter. Nobody really looks at that. And I would say, well, it does matter, because people do look at it. I look at it and I base. You know, people are going to base how interested they are in a place as to whether they think it's a good deal or not. And if the Zestimate is wrong and it's really low, then they're going to look at what we're asking for the house and say, well, I don't even want to look at that house. And they're going to write it off because of that one little. That one little thing. And we would get into disagreements.

I mean, we're not big fighters anyway. Like, we're not ones to yell or anything like that. But we would have this back and forth. Like, we would be like. I'd be like, now, sweetie, I told you my mom is a real estate agent. And she said that this is not the real value of the house. And he'd be like, but, sweetie, me and everybody else, all the millions of people in America are looking at Zillow, and this is what they're assuming the house is worth. And I'd be like, this is not true. I talked to this other realtor, and we just have this back and forth. So let me tell you, just here recently, we moved, and I caught Dave. He's like, you're having an affair with Zillow. Okay?

Like, I was on a porn site or something.

Seriously. Like, I caught him looking.

Zillow's now in our blocked.

Well, you had. He was in a bad mood. And I'm like, let me see your phone. Let me see it. And he's like.

I'm like, okay, I was in Zillow.

You've been looking at Zillow.

Our Zestimate's way low.

And he's like, the zestimate's low. And I'm like, sweetie, we cannot do this. You cannot go to Zillow. It just totally makes us have this terrible dynamic. So it's one of those things. And my whole point in telling you this ridiculous story is sometimes you just have to take it off the table and say, this isn't like, something we're gonna. It's not a sword we're gonna die on in our marriage. Zillow has nothing to do with our marriage. And it's stupid if I just have to say that myself. And it just makes us angry. And so we're gonna, like, stop talking about Zillow. And I think that's okay. You know, another thing that. Another silly thing that people often argue about is, like, room temperature or how to load the dishwasher or how to fold a towel or just little nitpicky things.

You can let anything, anything annoy you if you let it. Because the bottom line, your spouse is going to do things differently than you're going to do things, and that's okay. God gave you two different personalities. Be thankful you did not marry your clone. Your clone would drive you crazy, too. Learn from each other's perspective. And instead of trying to make every issue about who's right and who's wrong, look at it as ways to learn from each other's perspective and to celebrate your differences and to say, well, you know, I wouldn't do it that way, but it works for her or it works for him. And instead of trying to change them or instead of trying to critique them all the time, because that will drive people crazy. Book of Proverbs has a bunch of verses about saying it's better to live on the corner of a roof, or it's better to live in the corner of an attic than to share a house with a nagging and critical spouse. And so don't be that nagging and critical spouse. You know, your husband or wife would rather go live on the roof in a rainstorm that have to listen to your nagging. Be encouragers of each other. Keep perspective and respect the way that they do things without having to always try to change their mind.

It's so true. Because the bottom line is, we cannot prevent disagreements because we are not perfect clones of each other, but we can prevent disagreements from becoming a fight. And so here are some very practical things you can do. Number one, keep it all in perspective. Like, is this, like, just like the Zillow story? Is this really worth letting this become a fight? I mean, really do we need to even, like, talk about this anymore? And the answer is no for, like, half the stuff that comes up. And so really keep it all in perspective. And, like, if it is something that really matters, like a major decision that really will change the course of your marriage, then you need to sit down and talk about it. If you can't. Again, if you can't talk about it calmly, maybe write it down. If you can't write it down calmly, maybe bring in a marriage counselor, a Christian marriage counselor who can help you kind of talk through those things. Number two, respect their opinion. Just like Dave was saying earlier, your spouse may have a different opinion, and just because it's different doesn't mean it's good or that it's not worthy of being heard. So we need to show each other respect. That means we listen well. And I am so bad at this sometimes. Like, sometimes Dave will be telling me something, and the whole time I'm just thinking what I'm gonna say back instead of listening to him. And so the way we can show respect other than our words, you know, we need to obviously use a respectful tone and respectful words is we need to be good listeners. Number three, don't jump to conclusions. And this also has to do with listening. Don't think you know what they're gonna say. And I've done this. Have I not done this so many times, sweetie? And I hate it. I'm sorry.

No comment. I plead the fifth.

Like, there'll be times he's saying something, and then I'll, like, think I know how he's gonna finish the sentence. He'll get this really sweet smile, and he'll go, sweetie, that's totally not what I was thinking.

Let me try to finish my sentences. Yeah, sweetie. I was thinking we could go to the mall. No, actually, no. I was thinking we could go to a restaurant. No, I was thinking. And it's like, she'll jump in.

I don't know why I do that.

And try to finish my sentences. And I'm like, actually, no, that's not at all what I was going to say. It's sweet that you want to try.

That's right. And he had grace. He gave me grace. He didn't yell at me and say, no, you're always finishing my sentences. And you're wrong. Instead, he gave me a sweet smile and said, sweetie, it's actually not what I meant. But sometimes, you know, we're jumping to conclusions about more major things, like the conclusion that our spouse does not have our best interests and I would tell you, assume the best of your spouse. I know we talk about that a lot on this podcast and a lot@marriagetoday.com but assuming the best of your spouse and assuming that they want your marriage to work, that they see the best in you, is going to get you a lot farther than assuming the worst. And number four, when it comes to preventing a disagreement from becoming a fight, be willing to compromise. I mean, that will get you so far. You have to be willing to compromise.

That's good stuff. I mean, in every aspect of marriage is that if one person is always just forcing their way, that's not a marriage, that's a dictatorship. That's a bully. And you've got to on everything, you've got to compromise. You got to serve each other. And sometimes it's going to be one of you saying, you know, I want to just submit to you on this. You know, you hold the remote control tonight and you watch that show, even though I have zero interest in watching it. I watch so many shows that I have zero interest in watching. And sometimes Ashley does the same for me. Sometimes she'll watch a football game that I know she has zero interest in watching. But, you know, I've watched a bunch of bride dress shows, and I'm thinking, why in the world are we planning on getting remarried? Why are we watching a bride dress show?

She's kind of an expert.

I could tell you all about, you know, every different cut of the gown and, you know, everybody, but we serve each other in that way. And it's an opportunity to connect. It's like, okay, well, she's into this. And so by me cuddling up next to her, it's an opportunity for us to connect over something I know that she likes. Instead of me trying to make fun of it all or change her mind on it. You just have to enter into each other's world a little bit and find compromise.

It's so true. You know, I want to make this point as well. Some of you listening are like, well, we're not big fighters either. We don't really yell at each other. We don't call each other names. You know, we try to listen. But as you're listening to this, there's probably some things on your mind and heart that you've never shared with your spouse. And maybe you're giving them the silent treatment over something. Like maybe there's something that happened and you're giving them the silent treatment. That is not fighting fair.

No, that's not fair.

Because your silence might as well be like a huge megaphone where somebody's screaming some obscenities in your ear. Because silence is just as hurtful. And it really. I mean, we've seen marriages break up and then eventually go through nasty divorces where their kids are left reeling because they're like, mom and dad never had a fight. I never even knew there was a problem. And it's because that silence was. Was miles and miles between them where they would never talk about anything. So instead of dealing with the disagreement or even fighting about it, you know, which is not good either, they just decided not to talk about it at all. And that'll break up a marriage, too.

That will do it. I'll talk about a few other things that are out of bounds while we're talking about out of bounds fighting. The silent treatment is. Man, it's near the top of that list. Venting about your spouse to other people.

Oh, goodness.

Like, if you start posting online, oh, my gosh, my husband just did. He's always doing this. That is toxic. I mean, you might as well. I mean, that is just toxic. And it's trashy, too. Like, I'll just call it out. It's tacky and it's trashy. But beyond that, it really is just out of bounds for your marriage. Don't vent to people. Don't complain to people about your spouse. If you're seeking genuine help from somebody who could be kind of a counselor in the situation, that's one thing. But you know the difference? If you're just venting and complaining, that negativity is absolutely poisonous. Another thing that's way out of bounds is when you start. When you start using sex as a bargaining chip.

Oh, yeah.

And when you start withholding any kind of affection, you're like, you know what? I'm not gonna touch him. I'm not gonna put my arm around her. I'm not gonna hold her hand. I'm not even gonna look at her. Or, you know what? If he's. He's just. I'm going to starve him of sex until he finally gets with the program. When we start doing that, we're acting like terrorists. We're acting like emotional terrorists by holding hostage different aspects of the relationship as a form of punishment or reward, and we're making ourselves the king or queen of the relationship. And really an unhealthy dynamic. And so, you know those three things. The silent treatment, venting about your spouse to other people or online, and then withholding sex or affection or intimacy of any kind. Those Three things to me are like the kiss of death. If you want to take your. If you want to just blow up the marriage, then take a disagreement, add some of the poison of one of those out of bounds activities, and things will just go haywire.

It's so true. I want to add one more though, to those three and those three. That's so true, sweetie. Is comparison. Like, you'll see people in the middle of arguments say, well, my ex girlfriend would never do this, or my ex wife never did this to me.

Or Shirley's husband.

Yeah, Shirley's husband. You know, my dad never did this to my mom, you know, or you say things like this, you know, mom was right, you're a loser or whatever it is. I mean, it's terrible.

Like, that's gonna make for an awkward thing to do.

It's gonna be awful. But like, when you make comparison or you like start shouting off things from the past, you know, bringing up the past that you've already dealt with and then throwing it in their face, it really, it's just like slinging mud. I mean, you're just slinging mud. And especially when it comes to comparison, that will break your spouse's heart because then it brings another thing into the mix and it automatically makes them feel like they'll never be good enough and that you've had this other person on your mind and that you've been comparing your spouse to this person. And so it just makes things even yuckier when it comes to arguments. And it just will escalate things really fast and it will not move you towards a resolution. So we've got to keep those things out of any kind of disagreement that we're having and really focus in on, okay, what are we disagreeing about and what will move us towards having a resolution. And I wanna say one of the biggest things you can do, especially if you are, maybe you're not yelling at each other at this point, or maybe you are, but you just feel it in your heart that you feel passionate about this one thing and you're so disappointed in your spouse and you can't seem to get past it. I would just challenge you both to hold hands, bow your heads, and pray for one another right then and there. And I'm gonna tell you, two things will happen. First and foremost, you're humbling yourselves before the Lord. And anytime we do that, he's gonna reveal his truth to us. But number two, you're also humbling yourselves and your hearts towards one another. And it's really hard to Be mad at someone and pray for them at the same time. And I know, you know, there's been different times. I'm sure we've tried that, because you can just be upset and you're in a heated argument, and then you. And you pray, and it's so amazing. It's not that God solves it right then and there, but he does put our hearts in a better place to be able to talk about everything. And so I just. I don't want you guys, as you're listening to this, to underestimate prayer, because it really, really is a powerful way to just put us in a better position to talk through things in the most respectful way possible.

That's so good. The Bible has so much instruction about how to navigate relationships in a healthy way. It says, blessed are the peacemakers. Jesus said, so be the peacemaker in your marriage. Ephesians 4. 32 says, Be kind and compassionate to each other, tenderhearted, forgiving each other, just as God, through Christ, has forgiven you. I think if we'll apply these simple things. The love chapter, First Corinthians says, love is patient. Be patient with each other. I think having the right tone in your voice, a lot of times you think, well, I'm not saying anything mean, but you can have the sharpest man, meanest, coldest tone in your voice. And you know what I'm talking about. That tone in your voice will set the tone of your conversations. And so you've got to choose. You've got to choose a warm and a loving and a respectful tone. I think I'd also add, avoid using. And we've touched on this already, but avoid using those you always, and you never comments. You know, you always this, you never that. It's childish, first of all, and it's hurtful. It's hurtful because it's not true.

It's kind of the same as name calling. I mean, it really is. It's like you're in this box. This is what you always do, this is what you never do, and you're never gonna change. You know, and it really. I mean, the honest truth is if we can never change, if we can never improve, then where are we gonna end up? That way, you know, we need to always assume the best in our spouse and assume, too, that we can move forward together. We have to believe that God has a greater plan for us. And I will tell you, you know, I don't like arguing, but there are times when we've had disagreements where afterwards I feel so much closer to Dave Because I've been honest about my feelings. We've been able to talk about a certain topic and we've resolved it. And it's amazing how God, he will bind your hearts in those moments. And really what it is, is we keep love at the heart of everything we're saying and everything we're doing. And you know, I know I talked about praying when things get intense, but I would encourage you to even pray before you were going to talk about something that, you know, kind of tends to be a hot topic between you. Pray before, pray individually and together. You know, prayer will always put us in the right position to deal with things. And you know, it's amazing too, God will sometimes, you know, we think we're gonna talk about one thing and we might go pray about it and realize, no, we really need to talk about this other thing that we really haven't brought out in the open. And so I just, you know, prayer has to be foundational in your marriage if you're gonna have a rock solid marriage, if you're gonna have a naked marriage. You know, prayer keeps us honest. Prayer helps us to be transparent with one another and it gives us too the strength to do it. Cause sometimes we're scared to approach a topic because we know that it tends to be, you know, a hot topic in our home. But we need to have the courage to do that. And God will give us the courage to be authentically transparent with one another.

Yeah. And the goal here is not just to have a completely, completely conflict free, disagreement free marriage because you're going to disagree like we've talked about. And if you just avoid the difficult topics altogether, it just leads to that silent treatment and you drift further apart. And so you have to bring up those topics and you have to find a time in a place where it's going to bring peace and where it's going to be good for you and your spouse. And then really, really just work through it. You need to watch complaining and criticizing and sometimes the difference between those two things, your spouse needs to be a safe place for you to ven about whatever is going on in your life, even the negative stuff. But then you need to be careful that even if you're venting, that venting can sometimes turn to criticism toward them, a negativity toward them, and just an overall negativity within the marriage. And so I think with all of this, we're just coming down to just these key principles of communicate. Always respect each other, always speak with tenderness and love and compassion and thoughtfulness. Be A good listener. Make sure you're serving your spouse instead of trying to always force your own way.

You know, it's so true. I know. When it comes to complaining or criticizing, you know, and how that can play out negatively in your marriage and cause a disagreement to become a fight. I share this story at length in the Naked Marriage book. But you know, there were years ago when we were moving and I just. Everything was hitting me negatively. And I refer to that season or any season like it, like a sandpaper season where everything is rubbing you the wrong way and you feel raw. And so anytime people close to you kind of come to you and talk to you and approach you, you wanna lash out at them because you're hurting. And there was a time where I was putting up something in the house and Dave had gone when I really needed his help. He did not know cause I didn't verbalize it. And he came back from a run and I'm still having trouble installing this curtain in the house. And he was being so kind. But what happened was I was complaining about everything in my mind about our situation, about him not being there, you know, to help me hang this curtain rod and leaving. And then I started, you know, the complaints about our situation started turning to complaints about Dave. And so by the time he got home, I just let him have it. And it was terrible. I mean, it was. I regret it till this day. I hated it. I hated that I just lost it on Dave. And he literally gave me this look, like sheer horror, like what? What in the world just happened? You know. And then I had to, you know, God humbled me real fast. Cause I clearly saw my sin in the situation and my, you know, just how I turned something that could have just been a conversation into an all out fight. And I apologize to Dave. And we were able to really talk about how I was feeling and how I didn't like this move and how I felt lonely and I felt like, you know, everything was out of sorts. And we really were able to grow stronger through that moment. But that is what happens when we're just on a rampage about everything we hate and everything that's wrong with the world and how our work's not working out the way we thought and our kids are behaving terribly. We can just escalate. And then we kind of put that negativity onto our spouse and it can just really ruin our day and really hurt our spouse's heart. And so it's really important that we kind of shut that down. And the Bible talks about taking our thoughts captive. We gotta take those negative thoughts, those complaining thoughts, those critical thoughts captive, and replace them with God's truth and automatically think of things we're thankful for. It's amazing how thankfulness, it's like water to a fire. I mean, it can just change how we're feeling very quickly. And so I would challenge you if you're kind of on that route of just complaining and being critical about everything. Think about five things you're thankful for. Write em down. I mean, I find power in writing things down. And just pray that God will help change your perspective. And I promise you, you're going to see the world and your spouse and your situation in a much more positive light.

That's so good. The more you give gratitude, that attitude of gratitude will change your faith, your heart and your marriage. And if you keep God in the center of everything, if you just make faith in Jesus the foundation of all you do, it's going to bring balance to everything in your marriage. And so the best marriage advice we can give is to follow Jesus. Because when you're following him, you're always heading in the right direction. Hey guys, thank you so much for being part of this podcast community. The way you leave reviews and subscribe and share it means so much. You know, I was just reading through some of your reviews just yesterday and it was so encouraging hearing your feedback. And so thank you for reviewing. If you leave comments, we read all of those. If you send us messages about topic ideas, we read all of those. So thank you guys for being part of that. One quick announcement before we sign off. Our new book, the Naked Marriage is out.

It's out.

It's available so you can go to Amazon, itunes, Barnes and Noble, anywhere you get books. You can also go to the site nakedmarriagebook.com and we are so, so excited to share this book with you. It's been really our whole life message, the story of our marriage, the story of our journey, and then everything we've learned from this last decade of doing marriage ministry from inspiring couples just like you.

That's right. Thank you guys so much for tuning in and we hope you listen next time.

Bye Bye.